EFAP Movies #57: Troy - The War Arc continues

After witnessing the battle at the Hot Gates, we felt a need to see what was happenin' at the big ol walls of TROY! Join us as the WARRING continues!
Edited by Lil Poteto

[@EveryFrameAPause]

Hey hey, since we had a double EFAP, we're bringing you the next in the War Arc for this fine Saturday! Enjoy!

[@nont18411]

“Even when you are evil, you are still too good.” - Abby Quinn

[@NicTheGreek1979]

Winner!!! 😉👍 Currently watching the Resi Evil final chapter fap, should be done just in time!

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

WAR WE ARE GOING TO WAR (Arc)

[@andethidialbubabibub3261]

❤

[@sigy4ever]

I'm dissapointed none of the cast even mentioned the doraleous and associattes parody of the opening 1v1 scene where they get the two worst guys in both armies to fight. e: I shouldn't have to say it but I'm not *super* dissapointed, just regular internet dissapointed

[@2ndlegend125]

Hector wasn't actually killed by Achilles. His back just broke after carrying the Trojans so hard.

[@SiriusSphynx]

Don Bless our Savior Hector

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

Same for the Greeks. Achilles broke his back carrying the Greek army. And considering how many ships they had and men they fielded, it was heavier than Hector's load. Probably why he's stronger than Hector.

[@2ndlegend125]

@@RhysCallinan-bv1wi Nah. Odysseus shared some of the load.

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

@@2ndlegend125 Only when Achilles died. He was pointlessly trying to stop Menelaus from being a dick to his best warrior. And what a job he had. Dude intentionally was trying to get shanked by Achilles, even taking Hector's sister from him. And after his defeat in the first battle gave her to the men after all that dumb shit he did. Achilles did the greatest damage to Troy, killing Hector and taking the only logical guy in Troy away from them. If he lived he'd stop that damn horse from going into Troy or at least have guards around it and awake at the gates.

[@stryfe0]

Achilles poked that man

[@richter6699]

Paris is what Denethor thinks Faramir is

[@Edax_Royeaux]

And Odysseus is what Denethor wishes Boromir to be.

[@markcoroneos7811]

@@Edax_Royeauxtheyre basically thw same person 😉

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@markcoroneos7811 Odysseus lived (played by Sean Bean). That's was the joke.

[@markcoroneos7811]

@@Edax_Royeaux im aware, i was also making a joke about both roles being played by sean bean 😉

[@sardoniclysane]

Paris is cosmonaut in ancient times

[@ECKohns]

In this movie: Everyone dies. But Sean Bean plays Odysseus, the one Homer character to NOT die.

[@nont18411]

Subverting expectations

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Sean Bean not dying? _Now that's Soldiering_

[@ObsidianBehemoth]

A glitch in the matrix.

[@robertlewis6915]

So you're saying that Sean Bean must die OR everybody else will die.

[@corruptangel6793]

Isn't the meme that he dies in all the good movies and lives in the trash ones?

[@RedStar_N7]

Shame Fringy won't be joining us for this, but I understand war is sensitive subject for him after what happened to his grandfather when the Emus attacked

[@realmofloredor]

He fought alongside Shad in the great battle of Woolloomooloo.

[@tonlito22]

He has to take time off after the hard work of voicing Captain Boomerang.

[@iainmcdonalds4018]

Let's be honest, he had family on both sides.

[@giulizpaviz6381]

I thought that his grandfather was on the Emus side

[@khalidahmed8402]

“But everything changed when the Emu’s attacked”

[@velcrohead8589]

Agamemnon laughing asthmatically at Paris getting smashed is still brilliant.

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

It's basically the ancient version of the Jonas laugh from Spiderman 2. Maybe it's his distant ancestor?

[@spencergilchrist1457]

"Grandpa, what do you mean Hector's dead? He's only faking, right?" "You want me to read this or not?" "Who gets Paris?" "I don't understand." "Who kills Paris? At the end, someone's gotta do it. Is it Achilles? Who?" "Nobody. Nobody gets him, he lives." "You mean he wins? Jesus, Grandpa, what did you read me this for?"

[@_Tessa_T]

Am I the obvious dumbass? I say this because I named a character Sorsha in an MMORPG. Somebody asked me, "willow?" And I said sorry, I'm Jennifer. 10 minutes later, I realized that they were referencing the name I was using. ..... But...... Princess Bride.......?

[@spencergilchrist1457]

Correct. I actually double-checked the scene to get the quote mostly right. And don't worry, I once watched West Side Story and took a solid hour to recognize a Jets/Sharks reference.@@_Tessa_T

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

Blessed Post! ^.-.^

[@melancholicwriter56]

I mean, tbf, Philoctetes outshoots Paris and kills him at least in one version.

[@GoodFaithGary]

Sargon totally missed an opportunity to say "I wouldn't even launch a ship for you"

[@SolarDragon007]

LOL

[@jonbaxter2254]

That's a reference lmao

[@Bonesawisready926]

Lol. I too am a veteran of the meme wars. Shadilay my dude.

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

Kek, my Brothers. ^.-.^

[@kawaiiamethist]

I wouldn't even brand you.

[@Fyrecide]

Achilles isn’t atheist in the movie. He says he has met the gods and all, he just doesn’t like them. Huge difference, whether accurate or not.

[@wwyd4akb]

I mean as the gents mentioned his moms a Nyreid. It'd be very odd to disbelieve the gods when you're there descendant

[@GeordieSwordsman]

@@wwyd4akb Knowing the gods exists doesn't mean you have to believe in them. Believing in them only encourages the bastards.

[@phillidaadamus4349]

@@wwyd4akb Isn't the film demithologized, so everyone is a regular person, there is no "magic" and the role of the gods is ambiguous?

[@CatotheE]

@@phillidaadamus4349 I think they left it purposefully vague whether his mother was a goddess or not, but yes.

[@wwyd4akb]

@@phillidaadamus4349 Haven't seen it quite a spell, but as Fyrecide above mentions they refer to the gods often. Now you could say that Achilles is just being glib I suppose...

[@silverscorpio24]

Drinker: "Look at this lack of diversity. Not a single woman soldier." Rags: "Well, Paris...." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@reecedignan8365]

Funnily enough if you actually read the Iliad, the Trojans actually had Amazonian’s fighting in their side.

[@MegaSpideyman]

Yeah, me and my Dad thought that, too.

[@mordirit8727]

@@reecedignan8365 Penthesilia was such a badass in the Illiad, only Achiles could face her... Then you get to the Aeneid and what the actual fuck was going on with Camila she had such a badass entrance then dies instantly lol the Romans didn't know how to write cool amazons like the Greeks did man

[@sapheiron]

Poseidon: "Sean Bean's character survived? That ain't right, I gotta fix that."

[@cartooncritique6625]

...and then "The Odyssey" happened. 😄

[@Reds_dead]

But he still survived at the end of the odyssey 😂

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

​@@Reds_deadBanged a hot witch for a few years too, then went home and Legolas'd all the dudes trying to get with his wife. The only character of the Illiad to have a good ending.

[@popsthemagnanimous]

The Greeks were being ravaged by a plague brought down by Apollo on account of their desecration of his temple. Also, the guy Paris gives the sword of Priam to? That's Aeneas, the guy who goes to fund the city of Alba Longa, predecessor of Rome.

[@josephjackson9679]

Of course Rome gets founded by a dude called Anus

[@ajtallent4501]

@@josephjackson9679technically Rome was founded by Romulus and Aeneas was his ancestor. Which I think is even more accurate for Rome to to just name everything after themselves

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

​@@ajtallent4501Yeah it's been recorded in Roman mythology that the Romulus stuff happened, like, 2 to 300 years after Aeneas founded Alba Longa.

[@ajtallent4501]

@@RhysCallinan-cq5re yeah the Aeneid is all about Aeneas leaving Troy after the war and how his desendents are destined to build a great empire. That ends up being Romulus. The franks tried to give themselves ties to Troy by saying Hector’s son survived and founded their land. Seems common for empires to try and give themselves a connection to Troy

[@cosmoskronos5489]

Minor correction for Based Sargon in the Greek Mythology portion of the conversation. Achilles' mom is indeed a water nymph, or a Nereid, but she is considered a major one. Thetis is one of only 50 Nereids, and is a minor goddess of the sea and the daughter of Nereus, the old god of the sea. This is where the term Nereid is from. This would indeed make Achilles a powerful demigod, in blood alone, but of course is true remarkability comes in his invulnerability. In most stories, Thetis has an ability to see the future, but as is often the case in Greek Mythology, she is limited in her sight, and in her attempt to avoid the visions of Achilles dying in battle that she sees, she attempts to make him invulnerable. Thus the attempt to dip him in the River Styx. For a normal mortal, should you fall in the River Styx, or drown in it, depending on the interpretation, your soul ceases to exist, as the River Styx is the River of Life and Death, and its waters exist as a sort of meeting point for those concepts, souls cannot exist in this space. Perhaps due to Achilles' minor demigod status, or due to the fact that he was not completely dipped, Achilles was granted his invulnerablity. The cast brought up the question of why she doesn't double dip, and most tellings of the myth address this as Thetis was not aware of this, believing him to be invulnerable, there are a few tellings that point into the idea of in order for the invulnerability to work, his soul needs an "anchor point" a point where his body is still mortal, otherwise he would be consumed by the waters of the Styx as he isn't a full immortal. This is assumedly the source Rick Riordan used for his own interpretation of the Curse of Achilles. As for the question as to why anyone would ever aim for someone's ankle, most stories have Apollo directing Paris' aim when he fired with his bow, as retribution for the sacking of his temple earlier on in the burning of Troy. Loved the EFAP movie boys! Good work friends!

[@mloffel5027]

This sounds like the ancient’s fan theories to address the oldest plot hole of all time. History really does repeat 😂

[@maxscheu5663]

Loved the comment, you deserved more than one reply 😂

[@reactiondavant-garde3391]

@@mloffel5027 It is possible thet when the original story was told people had an understanding why this is how it's happened, like a cultural reference, but later this knowledge was lost so people had to make up different interpretations for the story. Considering thet Homeros most probably used an already existing tradition to make the Illias this theory have more streanght as well. + Illias have some part where Homeros himselfs suprised why charatcers act like this and contributide to "madness", but it is most problebly because in his time this culutral phenomenes are already changed.

[@trequor]

​@@mloffel5027 Apollo guiding the arrow is pretty obvious. The other stuff is more dubious.

[@therealestmedel5337]

Fun fact Paris was killed by another archer called Philoctetes and in one version he gets shot in the balls

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

Nothing less than he deserves

[@drussarn]

what balls? he is such a fuck up in the movie i kinda love it

[@cartooncritique6625]

Philoctetes? The goat guy from Hercules? 🤨

[@Herald_of_the_Never]

Community notes. Paris did not have balls

[@melancholicwriter56]

Philoctetes's arrows are also laced with Hydra poison since he got them from Herc himself. That shit's painful enough to get Chiron to give up his immortality just so he can die rather than live with the pain. So double ouch.

[@RebelCannonClub74]

The Trojan War was a Psy-Op by Zeus to trick his own godly children and demi-god bastards into killing one another so they couldn't one day usurp him. He called for a wedding and purposefully did not invite Eris, who in turn threw in an apple saying, "to the supreme milf of the multiverse". This in turn caused Athena, Aphrodite and Hera to all fight over it and ask Paris for his opinion. Aphrodite told Paris he'd get to marry a Spartan Princess who are famous for their beauty. But she didn't mention to Paris that Princess Helen was already a Queen...

[@FriendlyDarkwraith]

Aphrodite continues to be the biggest bitch in the panetheon, only second to Zeus' sister-wife.

[@mrdropkicker1]

Aha, but that would disqualify Athena tho if it’s for “the supreme milf”

[@SolarDragon007]

Damn, no wonder Kratos fucking hated the gods lol.

[@nananamamana3591]

This is true, though a few corrections... 1: Zeus didn't *plan* for the *TROJAN* war to happen. He had literally no means of predicting what would happen after Eris decided to do her epic revenge prank video. He just knew there would be a violent fallout after the fact, and given *most* of his kids were in positions of power, it was statistically unlikely they WOULDNT all end up killing eachother. 2: Eris *actually* said "to the dommiest mommy in all creation", the "to the supreme milf of the multiverse" is a mistranslation. Athena didn't have children, and the Illiad was written back when "Milf" actually meant you were a mother. Hera and Aphrodite fit that bill, but Athena didn't. However, "mommy" by vernacular, was a measure of presence and personality more than actual motherhood. It's funny, because Eris gets the apple back later, implying that *she* is the "dommiest mommy" afterall, but that's besides the point I suppose. 3: Paris had to choose between 3 Goddesses offerings. Hera and Athena offered him different paths to power, and Aphrodite offered him a nice girl. This helps subvert the assertion that men want violence, domination, and other such things, as all Paris wanted was to love and be loved by a pretty warrior tomboy gf -- a trend common with the Greeks, that has persisted to this day. 4: Aphrodite was in on it. As a goddess of "love" she is by far the most vindictive, spiteful, wrathful goddess and many of the participants of the trojan war were men she either directly had beef with, or, tangentally had beef with by nature of feeling disrespected by them. Most of this is because of them either sending her dick pics, or, *not* sending her dick pics.

[@lt3746]

@@nananamamana3591What in the Achilleid did I just read.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

The reason why everyone is a king in Greece is because nobody had a faction strong enough to be considered an empire. The standard to become “king” was extremely low.

[@LukasJampen]

I mean greece in the country sense wasn't even a thing. Just a bunch cities or islands with their own leaders but a somewhat shared culture and this is in pre hellenistic greece which is a time we know fairly little about and even their pantheon looked very different despite some of the gods already existing in some form (sometimes different roles or characteristic). All you needed back then was to be the leader of a single city to call yourself a king.

[@deterlanglytone]

This was actually pretty common across the world. Kingdoms weren't the same size as nations of today or Kingdoms by the time of the middle ages. Ireland have a King pre country, then per province plus a High King. England famously had a bunch of wars between the kings of just that area.

[@Garrus1995]

Kinds of reminds me of A Song of Ice and Fire and how in Westeros before the Targaryens showed up, literally every noble house was a king of something. King in the North (House Stark), King of the Rock (House Lannister), King of the High Tower (House Hightower, go figure).

[@tylerghersinich576]

⁠@@Garrus1995yeah that is true there was talks of in the books that there was a hundred king era. For example the some of the great house of the North were kings at one time. The Starks were called the kings of winter, the boltons were the red kings and marsh kings of the Crannogmen in the neck and the barrow kings

[@feliperisseto9113]

So If you had some land and some people at your service, you could be considered a king?

[@Samaru163]

I think removing the Gods from the movie hurts the narrative in some places, especially with Helen and Paras. Originally, Aphrodite was responsible for Helen leaving for Troy as a way to repay Paras for choosing to give a golden apple to her over Athena and Hera. The other Gods also began waging on who would win the Trojan War and would actively try and help the side they favored.

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Nah. The Gods are dumb

[@j-starchaser]

Paras lol

[@Edax_Royeaux]

I don't think modern audiences would have cared for a Gods driven narrative. The exploits of all the mortals would be severely diminished if none of them were in control of their own fate or actions.

[@cartooncritique6625]

Yeah, I know you can make a more realistic adaptation of the Iliad...but why would you? The Gods and their shenanigans are literally the most interesting part of the story. Take them out and all you have left is a stupidly pointless war being fought over an extramarital affair.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@cartooncritique6625 Because people would prefer to relate to the mortal heroes instead of God shenanigans. There's a reason you don't see many sitcoms involving a pantheon of gods.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

24:47 *The perfect cut from Troy Sean Bean to Lord of the Rings Sean Bean.* “For Frodo, Achilles?” “No. For me.”

[@ThePalaeontologist]

Hector MVP 10/10

[@ThePalaeontologist]

As I said, Hector MVP 10/10 @@Amarenamann

[@ThePalaeontologist]

And it's less weird when, in the adaptation, he was the general and leading Prince of Troy's armies. He knew military matters and a level of geopolitics whereas Priam was acting more on faith and Paris was acting more on passion. Both were selfish in highly different ways. Priam gambled Troy's fate on superstition (to be fair though, it's circa ~3,200 BP and the Bronze Age, so, it wouldn't exactly be an irregular stance in that time) whereas Paris was thinking with his appendage.@@Amarenamann

[@SiriusSphynx]

Don Bless our Savior Hector

[@nont18411]

DA BOSS CAN SOCK ME!!!

[@markcoroneos7811]

@@ThePalaeontologistexactly as you said. Achilles acts based on pride and anger. Hector is always depicted as being the ideal man; dutiful, faithful, wise etc and he is undone by the vices of others.

[@BigBroTejano]

Greeks: We have done it! We have conquered the Trojans! Romans: And now the descendants of Troy conquer you!

[@RebelCannonClub74]

Imagine using "being descended from Paris" as a flex.

[@ethanfox8979]

​@@RebelCannonClub74being descended from Hector would be a flex though

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@RebelCannonClub74 Paris, slayer of Achilles, greatest of all the Greek warriors.

[@DiceOL]

Revenge will be taken by Rome.

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

​@@Edax_RoyeauxYes, he used a bow to kill him, at a distance, and aimed at his weak point, and in myth had his aim guided by Apollo. It's more like a fluke he killed Achilles. In every other reality he'd obliterate Paris.

[@DeadlyPlatypus]

12:56 Sargon: "Okay, Shad, how many ships are we launching NOW?" 13:28 Sargon: "Shad?" I love that Sargon spends the EFAP... *Hectoring* Shad.

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

"He's going to add more diseases to that poor fisherman..."

[@mrdropkicker1]

@@RipOffProductionsLLCShad’s trying to be a good Mormon boy and these heathens and Scotsmen are trying to get him to look at boobs!

[@jonbaxter2254]

HECTOR!!

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

Sargon hectoring Shad? Paris the thought.

[@dragonmcmx]

Armies standing outside the walls in a David Benioff project... now where have I seen this?

[@TunezCottage]

didn't even think of that. Think the guy has a thing against researching actual warfare strategy.

[@Pompadour_Pug]

Great chemistry with this Efap cast, and sick editing Lil Poteto.

[@olehoncho]

My favorite bit from The Iliad is the duels between Hector and Ajax - how they fight all day and when sun sets - the fighting ends, and how over the course of the war the two become friends, with Hector giving Ajax his own sword (which Ajax ultimately uses to commit suicide with). But it's the manly respect between rivals, how war can be civil and masculine and uplifting. My other favorite bit is that Helen was a mother of 2-4 children - and when you factor in the Mythology about Paris having the best Judgment in all of Greece, it means he was a man who appreciated MIlFs - a true man of culture.

[@victorolmsted3147]

I totally forgot that Sean Bean was in this movie. And on top of that, this is like the ONE movie where he survives the film. Insane...

[@thunderstruck6647]

He also survived Jupiter Ascending as a Beeman.

[@davidbuller9696]

Also National Treasure and Silent Hill.

[@dangiambrone7350]

And Ronin.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

He's alive at the end of Sharpe's Challenge and Sharpe's Peril.

[@aaronmueller1560]

Even in the Iliad itself, Hector is best boy. Just doin his best to keep his city together and his people safe, and dies for them knowingly while making sure his wife and kid have a plan to get out. And yes, from what I remember, there’s more justification for or Achilles not fighting (he gets wronged by Agamemnon and hates his guts, so refuses to fight on his behalf until Petrocles is killed by Hector). I do kinda like some of the influence they take from the Greek stories, stuff like soldiers being “empowered by the gods” and literally going on kill streaks, and when two characters we know meet in battle it describes the battle parting around them to watch those two duke it out. Kinda fun stuff tbh.

[@reecedignan8365]

If i remember correctly, he and his men do storm that temple and he takes the girl inside as his battle prize however when Agamemnon loses his/doesn’t get one (can’t remember which) he takes Achilles and refuses to give her back. As such Achilles refuses to fight for Agamemnon but on Petrocles being killed he storms off to fight Hector for revenge. Also he supposedly kills the Queen of the Amazonians at this time when she’s leading a Trojan charge to reclaim Hector’s body/defeat and he just takes her out in one spear throw… tho is absolutely destroyed by it after in removing her helmet as he sees how beautiful she was and that if they had not been on opposing sides they’d be married.

[@thunderstruck6647]

Agamemnon had to give up his prize because Apollo had released a plague on his army and conditioned the end on him giving her up. So Agamemnon decided if he couldn’t piss of a god decided to piss of his best fighter. Were there a bunch of other characters too? I thought there was an Ethiopian or something as well. Also does Troy get taken in the Iliad? I thought the ending was Achilles giving Paris’s body away ?

[@reecedignan8365]

@@thunderstruck6647 it ends with the death of Hector and the desecration and burning of his body. It’s in someone else’s texts we learn of how they took the city with the Trojan Horse and then a few things happen depending on the writer: The Trojans saw the horse and a single Greek left there - the Greek being essentially to be sacrificed to the gods. This “sacrificial” man then explained what was a gift to the gods in recompense of their ills and follys against Troy. And here’s where things change. 1. In one version Helen is undeceived and tells the Trojans not to take it in but is ignored. 2. In another version Helen begins mimicking the voices of wives of the men she suspects could be inside and it’s left to Menelaus and Odysseus and several others to keep everyone from talking. 3. In one version Helen actually assists in opening the gates to let the Greeks in (tho this happens as it’s said that Helen finally at the end breaks free of Aphrodite’s curse/spell)

[@mrmcawesome9746]

​@@reecedignan8365 Just for clarification, the storming of the temple is separate from Agamemnon taking Achilles' slave girl, who he owned pre-Illiad basically. When he stormed the temple he fell in love (read: lust) with a girl _and_ her brother, who was either the son of Apollo or the youngest Trojan prince, but then when the guy refused him Achilles killed him in a rage (or alternatively hugged him so hard he died). This is why Apollo released the previously mentioned plague on the Achaeans. He also wasn't originally attracted to the Amazon Queen, or at least there's no mention of it, but a different warrior mocked him for mourning her death so Achilles killed him, and a later text says that the guy mocked him for falling in love with her.

[@MegaSpideyman]

More justification? Did he not have enough in this?

[@technodubber1905]

4:48 That's how you know how long ago this was recorded, they were still watching Batwoman 😂

[@kingragnarok7302]

And Shad still had a wife xD

[@gamefan987]

​@@kingragnarok7302wait he is divorced ?

[@crazycanadian5592]

​@@kingragnarok7302does he not now??

[@popsthemagnanimous]

A reminder that this Ajax is the same one as in Age of Mythology, an absolute legend of a character

[@gathenhielm9977]

I need to replay that one.

[@bmabhilash01]

So, where is Arkantos then ? Agememnon is as usual, useless.

[@gathenhielm9977]

@@bmabhilash01 Arkantos was invented for the game.

[@bmabhilash01]

@@gathenhielm9977 I see

[@paleface171]

@@gathenhielm9977 Me too, Age of Mythology was amazing.

[@-Azure.EXE-]

Branding people is the only thing that brings me joy in life.

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

Based and hucow-pilled

[@user-if7zm]

In the Illiad gods and goddesses intervene in the war. Apollo, Artemis, Ares, and Aphrodite sided with the Trojans while Hera, Athena, Poseidon, Hermes, and Hephaestus sided with the Greeks. A lot of the wonky plot and character motivation that seems weird could just be because the writers cut them from the movie.

[@cartooncritique6625]

While it's true that you can make an adaptation of the Iliad that's more grounded in realism...why would you? The gods and their shenanigans is literally the most interesting part of the story. Without them all you have left is a stupidly pointless war being fought over an extramarital affair.

[@MegaSpideyman]

​@@cartooncritique6625 Why do you say literally?

[@christophersmith8316]

In the Illiad Homer definitely often describes wounds getting into gaps in the armor and shield rather than strict tearing thru armor.

[@JackCrow0]

The brutality of the Greeks after entering the city of Troy may have been based off of the play "Trojan Women" written by Euripides in 451 b.c. The play fallows what happens to the surviving families of the siege. With focus on the women. It has highlights such as struggle-snuggles, slavery, and a LOT, and I mean a LOT of children being killed. a big focus of the story was the death of one child because of the danger he may have been decades latter. The aftermath of the siege was brutal for the simple people.

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Ancient warfare definitely had a tendency towards "kill all the sons so they don't come seeking vengeance when they're grown and we're old" style tactics.

[@SolarDragon007]

Reminds me of the village raid scene in "The Northman".

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

*So, you could say the Trojans built a wall and made the Greeks pay for it.*

[@CaptanF0rever]

Imagine thinking you beat the most renowned fighter in the world and then finding out it was just a cosplayer. 😅

[@the_mask1]

21:06 interestingly that is a popular theory, that the Achaeans (Greeks) somehow had and used one such a battering ram to breach the walls of Troy, and that it got named 'a horse' because it somewhat resembled a horse.

[@Pink.andahalf]

What do you mean somehow? People have been smashing logs into gates as long as they've existed.

[@the_mask1]

@@Pink.andahalf yes you are correct, i was referring to a theory that states that the machine that was used was similar or exactly the same as a specific "battering ram", a that we know was used by the Assyrians around the time period that the Trojan war took place. I've read an article about that some time ago and the topic was a question what exactly could the Trojan horse be or mean.

[@cuervogris2087]

Funnily enough this movie was recorded in my region. The staff hired a ton of people to run across the beaches in armor during the day and spent the nights in tents. Some cousins of mine said it was hell but it was like living in that age.

[@Blizz3112]

Diane Kruger is truly something else... perfect role for a woman worth sending thousands ships, despite Shad's protests... ;-)

[@SolarDragon007]

An ass worth launching a thousand ships for :)

[@fullsleevedshirt]

there are much better looking blonde germanoids.

[@MegaSpideyman]

​@@SolarDragon007 Only her ass?

[@popsthemagnanimous]

Paris once was chosen to be the judge in a contest of the goddesses on who was the best goddess (organised by Eris, goddess of discord). Hera promised that he would be the greatest king of all land, Athena promised he would be a great warrior and never lose a fight (something along those lines), and Aphrodite promised he'd have the most beautiful woman in the world. So Paris chose Aphrodite, who made Helen fall in love with him. All according to Eris' plans, of course

[@AnimaVox_]

Whenever I see Eris mentioned I'm reminded of Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas. Coincidentally, Brad Pitt's also in that movie.

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

Well not exactly Eris plan. Paris was not included, she only hoped a rift would happen. It didn't work since the Trojan war ended earlier than expected. Honestly the gods are cunts. They got mad and destroyed a city and killed many thousands if not tens of thousands over a simple gift that was obviously a trap.

[@josephjackson9679]

Man this one could be a much more enjoyable watch if Shad didnt feel the need to scream constantly. I got to Hector's through-the-armour stab to save Paris until it gave me a headache. Was he particularly hyper because another history buff was there and he felt self-conscious?

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

1:06:36 “It’s Old Man Young Man!” “And I would’ve gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for you meddling Trojans and your mangy Paris!”

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

It’s so unfair. Brad Pitt is good looking, but I can’t tag on him for being a “pretty face” because he’s also a stellar actor!

[@TheJammerman]

The British accent though…

[@MegaSpideyman]

Why's that unfair?

[@19Ledor]

Because it keeps coming up: When everyone wanted to marry Helen her dad was afraid that whoever he picked the other Kings would be salty and start a war. So, Odysseus came up with the idea that before Helen’s dad picked they would all swear that all of them would protect the union with their armies if necessary. Thus when Paris stole Helen they were all honour bound to attack Troy.

[@kubikkuratko188]

Hector is such a badass in this movie, accepting the duel almost immediately. In the poem meanwhile, he runs away from Achilles for 4 days around the Troy untill finally stopping to be one tapped with a Javelin

[@floki_vt]

Achilles was more upset for the fact Agomendmon disrespected him double by taking his spoils (The captured woman) on top of insulting him.

[@emkenobi]

Troy is one of my favorite films of all time. Years ago when you could send fan mail to celebs I sent a letter to Eric Bana (Hector) and he sent back a signed photo and a thank you note 😭 still have it hanging on my wall

[@theodenkingofbrohan]

That's awesome! Eric Bana is great, I feel like he's super underrated

[@HerohammerStudios]

Man, that's really cool!

[@jonbaxter2254]

Bana would do that, the guy seems like such a good dude.

[@card4510]

Very cool

[@emkenobi]

@@theodenkingofbrohan he’s so underrated. He’s a great actor and is never in main stream roles anymore. The big films he’s been in he’s always a side character too like in black hawk down or lone survivor

[@pietergeorgewium4195]

I will from henceforth rate hotness on the level of ships

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

I rate Sydney Sweeney a 1,000/1,000 on the shipometre scale.

[@culturaldefault9054]

Helen of Troy is the only thing that brings Boogie joy. 10/10 Mountain Dews.

[@MelodicMethod]

i came for the humor, i stayed for the baby yeeting

[@BoilingDietCoke]

Glad that I could be able to help with the best episode ever. Deded.

[@displaced_dirt1273]

Watching this always makes me wish they made the odyssey with Sean Bean.

[@theodenkingofbrohan]

This is like almost the perfect panel for this movie, bravo

[@MegaSpideyman]

Almost?

[@fakecubed]

Loving this War Arc. I haven't seen all the movies you're doing but this one is a good one. I wish we had gotten a sequel.

[@MegaSpideyman]

What would the sequel be?

[@fakecubed]

@@MegaSpideyman The Odyssey.

[@theREALmistafu]

And still to this day i'm happy about the "what'd you bring me" at the end

[@Fledermausmann]

I remember this film, it's about a little wussy nerd called Paris who scoots on by because he's handsome and a Prince and Hector, the OG Chad. Hector basically carries the entire war (in the text it's for almost a decade) so hard that he literally has to die to get any rest at all. Honestly, I even remember watching this in cinemas and thinking the same thing, "Damn this Hector is a monster, what a hero. Fucking champ of the people. " Jokes aside, Eric Bana does a stellar job in this movie and I really loved the character and the performance. He's the real hero and the real star of this movie. There's an oft quoted story from IMDB that "Brad Pitt and Eric Bana did not use stunt doubles for their epic duel and instead they made a gentlemen's agreement to pay for every accidental hit; $50 for each light blow and $100 for each hard blow. Pitt ended up paying Bana $750, and Bana didn't owe Pitt anything."

[@DJPhenix65]

Dear god Diane Kruger is unreal hot in this film. Also Shad, just cus you’re on a diet doesn’t mean you can’t read the menu.

[@SolarDragon007]

Rose Byrne was fine as hell in this film too despite looking disheveled most of the time lol

[@archstanton9073]

Way hotter than her brother, Freddy.

[@MegaSpideyman]

😂😂😂

[@aqua96870]

53:16 at least Mauler's armor worked

[@LemonCreature]

Achilles: I hate sand! Sand has done nothing but torment me my whole life! I bet sand got in Patroclus' wound, made his death all the more painful! I'll destroy all the sand on this beach, and beyond! *tosses wench to the sandy floor so she may understand his coarse words fully*

[@miyoko_17]

22:51 Whyyy did it have to be THAT cut??! 😭😭...absolutely brillaint 😂!

[@Wulfrygg]

The one thing that the extended cut does better than ANY movie I know is the depiction of the razing of Troy. It's just so brutal on purpose because that is what happened to a city quite often if they didn't surrender in those times.

[@mariusvanc]

There's some fun editing in this one. I like the cartoon accessories the avatars get.

[@doktorzhigonzo9165]

I remember seeing this in the theatre when it came out, i was with my mom and brother. When it was over, walking out an older guy turned to us and said "well wasn't that awful", and we were like "that movie was cool" lol

[@robertlewis6915]

The problem with Helen and Paris is that their whole position is undercut by the 'adultery' thing. Marital infidelity (and the solicitation thereof) just makes me hate a character. Same reason I disliked the main character of Three Musketeers when I read it.

[@sarwatarannya8786]

She was married to menelaus against her wishes, no?And thats besides the fact he cheated on her earlier and more often. I don't fault her at all for wanting to be with a hot nice guy instead of an angry old man. The problem with Helen is that she should know her decision would cause a war and cause the death of many innocents, not the infidelity. Of course in the original its not even her fault, since aphrodite compels her to do it.

[@robertlewis6915]

@@sarwatarannya8786 1. On the Aphrodite thing: Yeah, Helen has an excuse there. Paris, not so much. 2. Emotionally, Helen isn't in the greatest situation, but it's still a stupid move (and marriage-by-arrangement is still marriage- Menelaus wasn't abusive by Greek standards, from what I recall). 3. Even if the circumstances justified it, they're still starting really far in the hole on likeability points.

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

​@@sarwatarannya8786 I'm fine mainly because what her husband had with her wasn't love. It was just forced. In any case the fact of the matter was that Menelaus was looking for any excuse to conquer Troy, and Helen was just an excuse that started it earlier. Like there wasn't any negotiations, at least before they set out. By the time he sent out negotiations he was already sailing to Troy. To be honest, Hector dying was the worst thing to happen to Troy since he was more suspicious of the gods and would never believe the Horse was a gift. Either he would burn it, keep it outside the city or surround it with guards.

[@moe5020]

@@robertlewis6915 idk Helen isn't unlikable at all. She is under no obligation to stay in a shitty situation just because if she leaves other people are going to kill eachother. Paris is the one who acted irresponsibly what responsibility does Helen have to either Troy or Greece? This is even in the movie Helen feels bad but Hector right as always say it's not your fault.

[@robertlewis6915]

@@moe5020 Unless Helen is braindead, she's got to realize that her going to Troy is going to be a huge diplomatic incident that leads to probable war.

[@aaronmueller1560]

“Who knows what number this will be? Hey, welcome to EFAP Movies…..#26” *Looks at title* Oh Rags, you sweet summer child

[@archstanton9073]

Remember when they used to do weekly Batwoman episodes?

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

I stood proudly in the Troy camp before this movie. After this movie, I might invent a Time Machine to burn that wooden horse down myself!

[@MegaSpideyman]

The Troy camp? Why's that?

[@PanzerblitzRnR]

There was a repeating musical motif throughout this entire movie that was driving me crazy while watching this (39:36). I definitely heard that exact same motif in another movie. It wasn't until the video was done that I finally remembered it was 'Enemy at the Gates', which Horner also did the score for.

[@UchihaOokami2596]

I think it was also in The Mummy movie with Brandon Fraiser during some of the Ancient Egypt scenes.

[@thanatoast4389]

Both are better movies

[@Crimsin19937]

Thank you Rags, for reminding me of that God awful phrase "totally tubular" 🤣🤣

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

14:50 “Okay, Shad, how many ships are you launching now?” Shad: “I’m COVERING MY EYES!” Funny thing is, both of them are married now. They have the good ending: their own personal Helens of Troy!

[@robertlewis6915]

They've both been married for quite a while. Sargon has a kid or two in school

[@Pink.andahalf]

They were married when this was filmed.

[@nhagan001]

wait... "their own personal Helens of Troy!"? So they leave with the wife of another man and abandon their family?

[@CriKnight]

"They have the good ending: their own personal Helens of Troy!" - I don't think a "Helen of Troy" is a good ending.

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

Nah more like Hector's wife. A better woman than Ethot Helen.

[@morganmattish]

You guys should do an EFAP Movies to Sparticus (1960). That's a great movie with amazing battles!

[@_Tessa_T]

I worked at a gas station, and had Spartacus (before TV series) on my name tag. Tried to convince my co-workers how funny it could be if we were all Spartacus. They didn't get the funny. But I did meet my future husband at a bar, because he was a daily customer at my store. His drunken ass that night yelled, "who is Spartacus!"

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

I am Spartacus

[@TheSharkIsWorking_23]

1:11:42 the music was changed from James Horner’s Troy score, to Danny Elfman’s Planet of The Apes (2001) theme.

[@Neo2266.]

"This movie is what, 15 years old" "Yeah it's from 2004" ... Jesus how long were you sitting on these?

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

I think they were still filming Batwoman episodes at this time. And Rags did say Efap movies 26 so...

[@TheL0ngbeard]

So what happened with the armor is Troy is that they accidentally put a "-" before the defense value, so instead of protecting them it made it easier to pierce them from one side to the other... I hate when that fucking happens...

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

That reminds me of the first Efap Lotr series where the three made a joke about Lurtz bow doing negative five damage and it being a healing bow.

[@selwrynn6702]

I just wanna say the reason Achilles had that weakness in his heel is because his mom was dipping him in the River Styx, but his dad caught his mom part way and stopped her from what he thought was her drowning his son, so she couldn't dip his second heel.

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

I thought it was because she held him by the heel and couldn't dip him further because she wasn't allowed to tough the Styx.

[@circusandbread]

In the Iliad Paris kills Achilles with a poison arrow that I believe was given to him by Aphrodite and guided by Apollo. The story of Achilles heel is never mentioned in the Iliad or Odyssey and might not even be Greek in origin, I believe the first mention of the story is from Virgil’s Aeneid, which is Roman mythology.

[@steaksauce232]

@@circusandbread Achilles doesn't die at all in the Iliad, and the heel is mentioned in the Achilliead which was an unfinished poem from centuries later.

[@mellowtron214]

*Amy Schumer launched 1,000 ships because all the men of Greece fled.*

[@reecedignan8365]

14:28 ok to explain why the whole 1000 ships thing is due to this. 1. The reason Menelaus goes to extreme lengths to get Helen back is that unlike portrayed in the movie… he isn’t Spartan Royalty. Hes married into Spartan Royalty through Helen. As such if Helen was to abandon their relationship or even marry to someone else this would actually cause major problems for Menelaus claim to the throne and “kingship” - and even if still considered Helen’s Husband, should she be gone/dead then Menelaus would not receive the throne but it would pass to another heir of closer relation to Helen. As such the only way Menelaus could remain a king in Sparta was to actually have Helen there for legitimacy. 2. So the reason for the 1000 ships too isn’t just cause Menelaus was such a simp/chad. It was actually due… to a treaty. So initially when Helen was looking for a suiter she had 300 kings/princes arrive in Sparta for her hand. However, the reason for the massive delay between her picking her husband wasn’t because she didn’t want to (she kind of already had her choices in who she wanted) it was her father he delayed caution. The reason for the caution was that choosing one of the 300 could be considered insult to any/all of the other 299 in which could return home, ally and return to Sparta to kill everyone… good old Noble politics. As such to make sure that didn’t happen they were trying to think of some way to get around such. And this is where Odysseus comes in. He was one of the 300 suiters but didn’t actually care to much for becoming Helen’s husband (mostly as he knew he wasn’t one of those to be picked and he also wanted Penelope another major Spartan nobles daughter instead). As such he made a deal with the king, is he put good word in with the father of Penelope for Odysseus (which he did and Odysseus and Penelope would actually form a very strong marriage and relationship) he would give him a plan to make sure all 300 would be satisfied by the end. So in agreement Odysseus gave the Spartan king a plan. He was to write a treaty that all 300 suiters would swear to, that on Princess Helen’s choosing of a Husband, the other 299 were to accept and respect it and that should any attempt to break it the remaining suiters would be forced by this treaty and the gods to ally with Helen and the chosen suiters to put down those who broke the treaty. And interestingly thanks to Odysseus and some political persuasion by him all 300 signed it. And this is why we have the armada of 1000 ships. As due to Prince Paris breaking the treaty by stealing Helen, all 299 other princes were sworn to protect the marriage of Menelaus and Helen as such were forced to commit troops to the conflict. The reason so many ships took that large an army was also due to each suiters sending larger or small numbers of men to the field, some sent less as just to honour the treaty while others sent dozens as to try and buy favour with the Spartan dynasty or to gain some glory honour and plunder for their nations. Also as to the relationship between Helen and Menelaus, surprisingly in the Odyssey (as Menelaus isn’t killed in real life, as if he was the vast majority of the 299 other suiters would have immediately fucked off as the treaty was essentially nul and void at that point - the suiter is dead as such Helen was no longer chained to Menelaus as such there is no reason to respect the treaty anymore) but as Odysseus’s son tell us when he goes to see the two about finding his father, they are actually quite happy together and in a somewhat healthy relationship - tho again this may also be completely bias as to depending on which writer you read from.

[@wingedyaga2914]

I thought the treaty was due to Helen having been kidnapped before as a child. There's a story of Theseus and his half brother planning to abduct and marry daughters of Zeus and their plans backfire because the brother thought that Persephone would be a good target.

[@RottenFilmProduction]

As far as I am aware, fire arrows aside from a slight psychological war aspect, we’re mainly about causing injuries that would likely cause death sometime in the near future. A burn or scorching wound won’t bind and heal together properly, giving it ample opportunity to fester and incapacitate, as well as kill the recipient. If not killed it would likely lead to an amputation, so one less possible soldier returning to another future war.

[@waffles2waffles]

I had to rewind the "surfer bro" scene multiple times because it was totally rad.

[@JSK_03]

Seriously thank you for finally putting out this EFAP movies! Ive been waiting for this ever since Rags mentioned watching it with MauLer and Wolf years back in of your first EFAPs

[@Sornemus]

Bit of trivia - Paris gave sword to guy named Aeneas. And the roman mythology continues this story with Aeneas being one of the progenitors of Romans (Virgil's Aeneid).

[@majomajo1835]

I remember my grandfather say to me, I don't care what they taught you in the cinema... but when you keep thinking that the depiction of the greeks is accurate, I'll keep smacking you with this history book.

[@nobleman9393]

Having your army outside the walls and fighting the enemy makes sense if you can defeat the army that besieges you, especially if there's no help coming, happened several times in history.

[@wem-iv4xk]

“It’s a gift from Aphrodite.” 😂😂😂😂

[@nont18411]

Hector in Troy: Died, getting his corpse desecrated by Achilles. Hector Salamanca: Needs to see your balls, saying his boss can sock him, shitting the floor in front of the DEA and kill himself and his mortal enemy in a blaze of glory. Hector Salamanca >>>>>>>>

[@juanmegar]

Awesome to see Shad and Carl on. Not sure if they've been on before but it's been an entertaining episode. My children are trying to sleep and I keep laughing.

[@wilder11]

That quote about honor though: "Honor's killed millions of people and hasn't saved a single one." You don't really believe that. You think soldiers in WWII went the extra mile for, what, glory? Love? I think honor plays a major role in pushing us to do right by our fellow man and the principles we stand for. Honor is like any virtue - in excess or deficit it becomes a vice. But honor itself absolutely saves lives. There are people who will literally save other people's lives "because its their job". Not for any hoity toity, lofty, or philosophical reason. That's how they look at it. They are HONORING their society and fellow man by upholding a principle. So that quote is generally a crock of shit. But in Hector's case...you might have a point. That dude really was the only guy left in Troy who believed in honor, love and truth. Paris acted dishonorobly and was childish in the ways of love. Hector held his duty to his people high, and cherished his family for more than their beauty. Priam ignored truth when he admitted Helen into the city and when he ignored Hector's advice in favor of the birds. I don't know, is it dishonorable to abandon a city without honor? Definitely makes you think.

[@_Tessa_T]

We have a son heavily involved in ROTC. He is the epitome of honor and bravery. But we're trying to also prevent him from being funneled into the military. Don't die for rich people games. His mindset is very heroic, but it should be to preserve the humanity that he experienced through family. Not because a flaccid leader, who has a degenerate son, reaps the rewards of being submissive to evil.

[@wilder11]

@@_Tessa_T I'm not sure I can blame you. Lucky for us all, honor goes beyond a contract with the standing government, and a country is more than its leaders.

[@ebomb1133]

55:02 there is an option to kill Abby in the cutscene options. I freaking love little easter eggs like this. Phenomenal job you massives 👍

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

So, kill Paris or kill Abby?

[@madisonlee2203]

I never got the impression that the gods were really a part of this story. I got the idea, even as a kid, that the lore created around achilles was just that- lore. The men watched him fight and turned him into a demigod. I get the impression that this is a story told more in a "how it might have happened" rather than "this is what homer said"

[@angelpoloo2]

IF YOU WANT TO BLAME ANYONE , BLAME APHRODITE! Eris, the goddess of discord, was not invited to the wedding of Peleus and Thetis. In revenge, Eris brought a golden apple, inscribed, "To the fairest one," which she threw into the wedding. Three goddesses, Hera, Athena and Aphrodite, agreed to have Paris of Troy choose the fairest one. Paris gave the golden apple to Aphrodite, the goddess of love, beauty and fertility, who, in return, promised to give him the beautiful Helen of Troy, thereby triggering the Trojan War.

[@circusandbread]

Couple corrections at about 24:50. Thetis is a goddess or at least that’s how she is described in the Iliad and she’s also mentioned as a goddess in Prometheus Bound. Most importantly, that story about Achilles heel is never mentioned in the Iliad or Odyssey, in fact Paris killed Achilles with a poison arrow that was guided by Apollo. I believe the story of Achilles heel originated from Virgil’s Aeneid, which is Roman mythology. As for the movie, it’s horribly unfaithful or unfamiliar with the source material, characters die that are supposed to live and other characters live that are supposed to die. Aside from the inaccuracies, it’s a fairly solid sword and sandals film on its own.

[@Heartshapedbox81]

Wait wait wait wait, apparently I'm not the only one who saw this movie a bunch of times, he knew that the music was changed from the extended edition to the normal cut? I'm not even sure I would have known that and I've seen this movie quite a bit lol

[@SumGuy099]

I've gotten to the point now with efap movies where I enjoy them for their fun entertainment value, as in the funny stuff that gets said, but as forms of actual film criticism, they hold no value whatsoever. Its on a fundamental level where having, in this case, 7 people speaking over each other all trying to say stuff, speaking through movie scenes, makes anything approaching film criticism from them in this video worthless as they are categorically not fully paying attention to the movie. For me atleast, to properly criticize a movie, you need to watch it alone and experience the movie, to then spend the following days to reflect on the movie to analytically break on what was good/bad about the movie. I by no means want the format of efap movies to change as i very much enjoy them, it just needs to be said that there is no value, in terms of true film criticism, from these videos as you guys are categorically not fully paying attention with everyone trying to Crack jokes and do on the spot film criticism where you guys just grab onto something to quickly complain about it while the next movie scene you're not paying attention to is happening. Hell, rags even admitted in this video that he wasn't paying attention to the fact Sean Bean is in this movie cause he was talking through whatever scenes I dare say RLM has the best video criticism format where they watch a movie fully through where they give funny reactions to events within the movie but give their full criticism of the movies they watched, afterwards with their friends where they can give the funny commentary/criticism. Side note: shad is annoying as fuck sometimes. I Like the guy, but he was getting miserable in this video

[@reaps912]

Huge shoutout to Lil Poteto, he really put some work into this one and I think it pays off big time Well done, spud 🥔👍

[@EthanGeorc]

Lil Poteto on the side of the Greeks I see :D

[@UchihaOokami2596]

Oof Rags saying take the sword and find Carthage hurt my soul. Aeneas starts the ancestral people of Rome, the enemy city of Carthage.

[@mrdropkicker1]

But Aeneas did find Carthage. That’s where he goes first, and he bangs Queen Dido and THEN he starts Rome.

[@UchihaOokami2596]

@@mrdropkicker1 Okay, forgot that. has been like.... shit, like 2 decades since I last read either book. The only think I really remember was the gory descriptions and the gods trying to dunk on Zeus and he just lets them all have it by saying that if all the gods, all humans through time and the very earth pulled on a great gold chain, he'd easily lift us all with one hand. And then proceeded to beat the shit out of the Olympians that were treating the Trojan war like drunken viewers of a sports game.

[@mrdropkicker1]

@@UchihaOokami2596 honestly, if that’s true and not Zeus being a dick like he usually is, then no wonder people say Kratos can solo the verse…

[@realmofloredor]

Watching Troy is the only joy in my life. I believe this movie took inspiration from Foodfight.

[@realmofloredor]

@@Amarenamann Now that I think about it, it may have been 12 Angry Men.

[@bijibadness]

btw, it was _absolutely Gladiator_ that started the brief trope of "Wailing Cuz Middle-East / Mystical Lands". there were a good seven years or so where that was absolutely unavoidable in dramatic action movies that depicted anything close to a Middle-Eastern setting. even though here it's Greece and I guess present day Turkey. for all I know those droning funeral wailings _were_ Grecian. we may never know, he shrugged.

[@EndlessVacuum]

I don't think Achilles is an atheist in this film, I think he's supposed to just be that arrogant that he knows for a fact that gods are real and still challenges them.

[@spectral_force5097]

Sargon is great in this. He usually has pretty boomer takes on large modern franchises, but he's great at providing history expertise that gels really well with the rest of the crew. Looking forward to seeing more of him in the rest of the arc!

[@archstanton9073]

This was recorded a long time ago. Rags mentions watching another episode of Batwoman which they haven't done in ages and guesses this will be EFAP Movies 26.

[@spectral_force5097]

@@archstanton9073 I am aware, yes. And I'm also aware that he's in most of the arc, which is why I phrased the comment the way I did.

[@UchihaOokami2596]

The thing with the aingle “hero” fights was literally like the story where the greater fight was being described and then two heroes blessed by the gods go toe to toe so thank Homer for knowing how to keep a fight awesome. As to how Achilles mom was able to go to the River Styx, the revier isnt only in the underworld. It does reach a far bit out of it and iirc stems from the great ricer Oceanus that encircles the world. And the other bit is that his mom is a Nymph or Neried as mentioned. She isnt mortal, shes a river spirit. The Olympians Gods are greater spirits and the world is populated with many minors Spirits so her ability to manuever and have knowledge of the magic of the world.

[@jonsimpson6240]

Basically the rule of thumb for when a beseiged city falls is: -how long/brutal the siege was - did the defenders surrender when the outer defences were breached If it was a siege with battles that resulted in the walls being taken/breached, and the defenders surrendered shortly after. There was usually some tribute given, but basically no masacres and no more than the usual rapine.

[@tool4132]

The way Sean Bean was coming on to the dog I think he was playing Dave Filoni.