Efficient Spey Casting: Part 18 - Casting Stroke, Line and Rod Relationship

[@laxberndt]

Great as usual Peter you speak to what I have advocated for many pitchers.

[@gregwood4653]

You have mentioned all these points in previous videos but this puts it all together very comprehensively. Best video yet. 👍

[@lesterma1608]

Excellent rendition of system and match of the rig with the rods being used, thanks!

[@thatcherbeaty9884]

Wow, so many variables to consider for efficient casting! You put it all together and explain the issues very well. Thanks for sharing your insights and experience.

[@lassilehtineva3967]

One thing I have learned is that overlining the rod usually makes casting more difficult. For some reason it's a common practice to recommend really heavy lines especially for beginners. My favourite line set up for 13' 8/9 Hardy Jet is actually a 420 grain Airflo Rage with a tapered mono leader. Of course some distance is lost with the compact head but it's just so easy to cast that you can fish long days with minimal fatigue.

[@hooked4lifeca]

I've been saying this for years. Overlining a rod for a beginner just leads to problems. A slightly heavier line would be fine, within the comfort range of the rod, but some of the overlining recommendations I've seen posted online, border on the ridiculous.

[@peterflann6175]

Thanks Peter for the great video, always informative, Happy New Year. ,

[@Kelberi]

wow, you have improved a lot!

[@MrSurfangler]

Hey Peter loved your videos. I think you should also cover this basic fundamental about fighting fish as many of your followers are novice anglers and might get confused regarding the advantage of fighting a fish on the longer rod. I think an important part of fighting a fish is the angle of pressure. Fish is like a torpedo , it has propulsion in one direction (the tail of the fish pushes the fish forward). Now in physics we know that when a force is applied perpendicular to the motion , has no impact on its speed. In other words force when applied in perpendicular to the direction in which the fish heading will require little force to steer the fish and the force exerted by the fish will have little impact, where as the force applied opposite to the fish's direction will be acting against almost a 100% of the fish's pull . With this concept in mind when 1lb of force is applied as side pressure from a 10ft rod vs a 15 ft rod has a huge difference in the result of steering the fish as the 15footer will apply the force in a direction much closer to the perpendicular angle and will have much more steering impact. It's like the difference is between steering vs breaking a car. Shorter rods have smaller angles hence its more like breaking(you will require much heavier tackle and might get hooks pulled out),longer rods are more like steering the fish. Although they require more force from you they need lot less tensile strength from the line . Yes longer rods are more demanding on you for the points you mentioned in the video.

[@hooked4lifeca]

I have one very old video on YT where I show landing a fish on a 15' rod. I used to have stock footage of fish fighting that could of been used in such a video, but it was all lost when my very expensive Drobo RAID container decided to self-destruct. So apart from that one video, I doubt I'll be able to put more out. Good idea though.

[@terryc9685]

I was working with a long belly line on a 13.5’ 8 wt. and found that at about 65’ out it was good, after that it started to fail.

[@hooked4lifeca]

Ya, that's about the max length for a rod of that size.

[@loomi47]

Usually I pratice spey cast on a step near the water（a few inches higher than water),seems good,I could get almost 80ft with a 9ft 5wt single hand rod and a 28ft head.When I fish in the river, wading about 1 foot depth,all thing changed,60ft is hardly to cast,if I step back 3ft to shallower water,cast better. Reversely, I use a 10ft 4wt double hand micro spey rod,cast a 20ft head,easily blow my anchor without wading water,and get more distance and better presentation in about 1 foot wading depth.Generally ,the deeper you wade,the more critical to your casting unique ,especially a long head,require a longer rod, I don't like a long rod like 11ft or longer,those long rod maybe perform badly on the land ,but it really make huge difference when wading in depth.

[@hooked4lifeca]

Yup, that's always been the case, the deeper we wade, the trickier the casting. The deeper we wade, the shorter the distance we can cast. This is one of the reasons why I get annoyed with "experts" constantly beating the drum that, "We don't have to cast far to catch fish." While there is truth to that statement, it has the affect of discouraging anglers from developing their distance casting skills. As a consequence, we find them wading deeper than necessary to reach fish holding water and then they still can't reach it because they've waded into deeper water. Plus, they've put themselves at risk by wading deep. To make matters worse, chances are they spooked fish by wading into the fish holding water in front of them. It's better to develop our distance casting skills and remain ankle deep, than to wade waist deep and still not be able to reach the target fish. About limited backcast room, see my video on the Loomis PRO 4x 12' 6" 6/7 rod "First Impressions". I'm making casts in the 75' to 80' range during high water conditions, while standing within the branches of stream side bushes or under overhanging trees. I discuss how I'm making those casts.

[@loomi47]

@@hooked4lifeca And I notice,I cast well with some length, beautiful loops,straight upper legs,just boom and drag the reel agressively. Then I try to cast a longer distance,pull more shooting lines out of the reel,close or longer than my max distance,shooting lines is all shot ,and give a weak drag,but the leader unrolling looks not so well,like a reverse letter U,or some times it turns well. Does the longer running line matter? I mean,if the shooting line is long enough out of the reel,not all the shooting line is shot straightly after the cast,should the leader turns over normally? I manage the line as several small loops,to keep them completely out of water,or should I manage them as bigger loops to use the water tension?

[@self-taught_angler]

Mr. Charles, I understand that there is no free lunch, but can there be a free refill by just using long leaders? In other words, let say we have a 17-18ft skagit head, we can put a 12ft sinking salmon polyleader and then attach an additional 12ft tapered leader. We anchor only the leader and since it is long it does not blow. Yes, it cannot turn over heavy flies (that is the no free lunch part) but I think it can be paired with short rods, wind resistant and cast in narrow backspaces. I am using kind of similar setup with my 10ft 4wt switch rod. I have a 13.5ft 225 grains skagit head + 10ft (75 grains) polyleader attached to a 10ft leader. I anchor only the leader and shoot max 40ft (regularly 35ft) running line (Rio slickshooter). The fly is a size 10 bead-less woolly bugger. The reason I went below your 2.5x rule is that the bank of the local lake that I am fishing is very bushy and narrow. (And we are not allowed to wade.) In summary, I was thinking of getting close to 8ft (extra 4ft head + extra 2ft polyleader + extra 2ft leader) more distance with the above set up by just increasing the head only 4ft. This way I do not use much more backspace. Do you think it is possible?

[@hooked4lifeca]

The thing with these long leader setups is not to have too large or too much drag in our fly. A size 10 fly won't cause any problems.

[@self-taught_angler]

@@hooked4lifeca Thank you for your quick reply. As a result, I just ordered a new 17ft skagit head.

[@KristianBjering]

Hi. Any line suggestions for my vintage Guideline LPX 13’ 8/9 double hander? Both scandi and skagit (if it can handle it…) And for overhead casting as well. Guess my rod is from 2001 or thereabout. I bought it when my daughter was born, I’ll have planned to start using it when she’s turning 19 😂. Anyways. Appreciate if you have any suggestions.

[@hooked4lifeca]

I used to own that rod! Most Guideline 8/9s of that vintage worked nicely around 470 for Scandi and 520-540 in Skagit. Around 375 should work nice overhead.

[@KristianBjering]

Nice. Thank you very much for your quick comment. Will try your suggestions@@hooked4lifeca 🙂

[@mariuszpindor9890]

My question is.... How to build setup when I have no chance for wading and I can only fisch from the bank???

[@hooked4lifeca]

Look at my video of Single Spey Casting a Skagit head. I show casting off of the bank and discuss equipment.