EV CHARGER installation UK - can you connect to an existing CONSUMER UNIT?

[@efixx]

Installing and EV charger - WATCH THIS FIRST 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZ_QiGmNbs9rZqs

[@JSunday45]

Hello eFIXX. I have a question unrelated to the video, but since I'm getting different answers everywhere I look I am kinda desperate and I know you guys will be able to answer it. Can tinned copper lugs be used with an aluminum cable?

[@WhiskeyGulf71]

Seems like it would have been easier & cheaper to have upgraded the existing domestic consumer unit to the current standard that requires it to be housed in a metallic casing, that way the property’s up to current code, no issue with matching breakers & a nice simple installation with much safer RCBOs.

[@cglees]

Considerably more expensive though

[@G_Zero127]

Customer never wants to spend 💷💷

[@jamiebourne8047]

Interesting, although the meter end looked ropey to me, straggly tails unsupported or colour identified ..

[@gap9992]

Very informative, thanks for posting. . Am I right in thinking that anyone could just take out a single screw on the connector in the meter cupboard and be exposed to the tails where they are joined?

[@efixx]

I guess so, much like a light switch or a socket, anyone can undo two screws and access live parts.

[@gap9992]

@@efixx yes, that's true but are people much better protected downstream of the Consumer Unit? I am just a curious layman but I was expecting something like Fort Knox around those connections lol

[@HereForTheMusic-h5o]

The issue here is someone is willingly opening that enclosure with a tool. If they aren't competent then they shouldn't be attempting to access that enclosure. They are making that decision...

[@acelectricalsecurity]

Yeah just like anyone can take a screw driver to any electrical accessory. Or put their finger inside the lamp holder on a pendant that has no lamp in and have access to live parts without the use of a tool.

[@YoussefYoussef-tw7qq]

High quality information rcda circuit breaker is the test for rcda circuit breaker every 6 months u can make a test ???

[@efixx]

18th Edition recommends a minimum of every six months. 👍

[@YoussefYoussef-tw7qq]

@@efixx thanx a lot to advices me keep going

[@paulgerrard2529]

Is there a requirement for the main tails to be identified by blue/brown ?

[@matthewwallace8781]

Just to clarify. That SPD due to the conductor lenghts, it's designed to protect the EV charger and wouldn't be expected to be sufficient to protect the rest of the installation on the existing consumer unit?

[@efixx]

It would also offer a degree of protection to the rest of the installation. If possible fit as close to the incoming supply as possible.

[@Fishbait075]

Do you have a video covering "selectivity"? I'm not a spark, but find this stuff very interesting.

[@efixx]

It’s something we are planning as we get asked at lot.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Isn't the main reason for using a seperate CU that the installer doesn't have to take responsibility for the condition of the existing CU? For a 32A chargepoint, wouldn't it be better to use a 40A breaker to avoid any nuisance trips - a 32A breaker at full load for hours on end doesn't seem like a great idea for long-term reliability.

[@BezosAutomaticEye]

Hello. The chaps didn't mention in the video what the Zappi max current draw was set at, it may be limited at the charge point to lower than 32. Also - wouldn't the overcurrent have to be between 3 - 5 times the MCB rating?

[@BezosAutomaticEye]

@@johnhoward2104 cheers I was getting mixed between the two. Back to 7671...

[@brad30]

Manufacturer instructions say B32 MCB for overload protection.

[@edc1569]

I believe J1772 calls for 30A max?

[@mickbitchum4664]

Totally agree. MCB's at full load for 10 hours or so is never a great idea. Myenergi do specify a 40A MCB in their instructions, there's a lot of sparks installing on a 32A though I've noticed.

[@mikesimmonds1916]

This is why people do they’re own electrics. Too many teeth need sucking and before you know it a complete retire is needed.

[@mikekirwin3720]

The tails inside the meter cupboard needed identifying, ie L or N or Brown or Blue, great video. Looking forward to more videos on this very hot topic.

[@niceguy235uk1]

Why do they?

[@JaysScript]

@@niceguy235uk1 why don't they?

[@englishbob5106]

🤔

[@NickW1111]

On the subject of EV charger installation, I'd asked my DNO (Western Power) to check my service fuse rating as I'm looking at getting an EV. I've just come off the phone to the local office - they were very helpful and explained that the maximum they would fit is 80A. But, and as a policy that is only a couple of weeks old, if that is not adequate for an EV charger and the other house loads, they would upgrade the supply to 3 phase for free (3 X 80A). To say I was surprised is an understatement - I asked if this means they will dig up the road and was told yes. I said it sounds very German and she said that is what they are moving to, with a phase for the EV charger, a phase for the heat pump and one for the house. On new build they now provide a 3 phase incomer, blanking off 2 phases if only a single phase supply is required. Has anyone else heard this, or seen it in practice?

[@acelectricalsecurity]

That's a new one, but makes sense because of the obsession with the government's push for electric, which is not the silver bullet most think it is, but that's another issue. There was a time when suppliers wouldn't fit a 3 phase supply in a meter box, always had to go on an inside wall. Looks like they are going back to the old days, occasionally you come across 2 phases where one was used for heating.

[@stuartandrews4344]

Had cut out here replaced a few months ago, (Western Power) offered me the same upgrade the supply to 3 phase for free (3 X 80A) FOC.😲

[@acelectricalsecurity]

@Dark Dreamz it's supposed to be 400v now, but is still 415, that's between phases, you still have 230v phase to neutral.

[@NickW1111]

@@stuartandrews4344 Did you go for that, and if so, what have you installed as a consumer unit? The WPD document suggests 3 separate consumer units (or 2 of you only need 2 phases) and 3 phase DBs tend to be a bit big for domestic use.

[@stuartandrews4344]

@@NickW1111 Been very tempted, but I'm still mulling it over,as it would give me 80A for house, 80A for new workshop & 80A for EV charger,but COVID has delayed workshop build. Was it this WPD Document? www.westernpower.co.uk/downloads/3347

[@oliverduff681]

For those Hager boards - the MT-series MCBs (and the new ADA series compact RCBOs) will - per Hager's technical department - fit in the older plastic CUs as well as the newer Design 10 and Design 30 metal CUs.

[@rtelectrical9574]

Exactly

[@chrisoxley6631]

One may argue that this translates to a lot less hours, given it is extremely straight forward.

[@Draxindustries1]

Russia we charge battery cars generator 27litre two stroke V10, 1560Kv. Grid not good for big charge blow transformers. We sale ex CCCP turbine heli, jet warbird (MIG's) track vehicle with 500kv gen. Gas turbine gen 700kv. Environment pollute with EV more, cable underground hot melt ice/snow. Interest in UK generate. Sorry bad English spell, Interpreter no in tooday. Greeting from Russia (Cherkasy & Girood) ♥️

[@markpowell1456]

Could you please explain why the supply cable to the ev charger could be non RCD protected? You indicated that as it's clipped direct to the fabric, it's not a requirement? I was under the impression all domestic circuits now have to be 30ma protected?

[@efixx]

If the cable is surface clipped, visible and unlikely to be damaged then you don’t require an RCD.

[@RuchOporuElektryk]

@@efixx Guys, can we have a pointer to regs regarding this? It seems like a strange exception for a T+E cable loaded with 32A for hours and supplying "socket-outlet for current-using equipment for use outside" and protected only by a built-in RCD without any physical means of testing...

[@safeswitchelectricalltd9311]

Great video as always, quick question on the SPD. I appreciate that model is advertised as 'universal', but is that enough? Do you need to confirm with the CU manufacturer, in this case Crabtree, that they are happy for it to be installed in their board? So far I have not found a CU manufacturer who has written in their instruction that a universal SPD can be used. They all state that only their own can be used. I'd love to find one that allows this!

[@doctorelectric470]

good video lads, just shows there are lots to consider when fitting an EV charger

[@theprior46]

Not a helpful video for anyone who doesn't understand the jargon and the Acronyms. I hoped to find out how you determine if your consumer unit and supply to the house is 7kw rating for fitting an EV charger. I may as well look somewhere else so can't give this video any stars at all. Sorry

[@efixx]

The target audience for our channel is practicing electricians. We suggest you watch this video for a more consumer focussed view. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGixgGikbd-bfaM

[@peterryan7827]

Speaking as a non electrician, but as a retired plumber,I found this very interesting, from the point that We now know how it should be done, and it is a little more complicated to do than I thought, especially that surge control. thanks a lot for this one.

[@damianrobinson2524]

you were gonna try and knock one in yourself wernt ya hahaha

[@cuebj]

Further to longer comment about difficulty in finding good electricians, I've found you can put 3 electricians in room and watch a pretty heated row involving 4 different ways of doing something, each swearing the regs say different things and slagging off each other's choice of fitting.

[@andywarrington4738]

thats because most new electricians are lost in too many technical bullshit items , rule of thumb , consult the regs and use some common bloody sense

[@markkennard861]

Way down here in NZ everything must be on RCDs.. apart from fixed appliances like oven and hot water. Average house will have at least 3x RCD. That cable clipped to the timber would not comply. Interesting to see how other countries do things..

[@Mark-ij2nh]

Regs are a big updated con sometimes they make you do an entire course for only a few pages added from the previous regs ie 18th from 17th. Also there are SO many Electricians who wire differently and its a headache as we all have different ways of wiring. Surge protection can be nonsense as alot of new devices have built in surge protection inside the circuits in new electric cars and electronic components in entertainment products. Also it depends how fast you want to charge your vehicle. I know someone who wanted 16mm cable to charge there car. Which can carry from 57 to 85 Amps. Even your shower doesn't need that.

[@voxpopneverdies2025]

I'm a Yorkshire Electrician, God said I can't be wrong even when I'm wrong

[@deang5622]

@@andywarrington4738 It's because electricians are not trained well enough. Many really don't understand electricity, but because they are electricians and have had some limited amount of training, they think they know it all. Put those electricians in a room with qualified electrical engineers and they lose every time.

[@12alocin]

For years, a 7.2 kw shower came straight off the house consumer unit with a simple isolation switch, so exactly why are these changes been invented?

[@jonathangurney8628]

Guess the charger is running for much longer than a shower...

[@gbelectricks]

Just to throw a potential spanner into the works!! Are the tails, both the new set and the old set, run through the wall cavity? And, if this is the case, do these tails require additional protection?

[@efixx]

I wouldn't say so, they're not buried in the wall feeding an accessory, they come through in a straight line and are clearly visible. You'd have to actively be trying to drill into them. 👍

[@nickbuckle646]

I would have been inclined to use an adaptable box below original board and split the tails with line taps to feed other board and use a spd incorporated main switch in the meter box. Hager breakers do fit old consumer units so perhaps new board not required if SPD placed before original consumer unit.

[@efixx]

Always good to hear different engineering opinions. 👍

[@acelectricalsecurity]

Personally, if it were me, I would have used a spare way in the existing board, and if I had to install a SPD I would have used an in-line unit in its own enclosure, and not had any joints in the tails.

[@scott1506]

cost the customer £100's more coz couldnt be bothered getting a hager mcb jesus.

[@intercity125]

No mention of the PME/TN-C-S issue with an EV charger, I take it the Zappi has built in PEN fault detection?

[@stuartandrews4344]

It has built-in PEN fault technology,so no earth rod needed

[@efixx]

It sure does, no earth rod required. 👍

[@mathman0101]

I believe it’s has applied for a patent and been tested in a university lab not sure it has gone through other standard testing labs. Looks interesting technology though no real technical information on how this PEN technology is constructed and operates. Not if it would work even more effectively if earth fault path impedance was further lowered by adding an earth rod even though it does not need it.

[@acelectricalsecurity]

Why is everyone obsessed with a pme supply and ev's, really it's the networks problem not the installer. Plus, ask yourself what is the chance of the network dropping the neutral when the car is on charge and someone touching the car, it's got to be near impossible. The networks should be worried not the installer or car owner.

[@westinthewest]

@@acelectricalsecurity The DNO absolves itself of responsibility by stating that PME earths can't be exported outside the equipotential zone. I've read recently that loss of neutral is quite common and is often caused by cable thieves.

[@alanmarriott9216]

What happened to isolator in meter/cutout cupboard?

[@jamesmckelvie]

Can pull main fuse.

[@MS-Patriot2]

He stated a main switch was installed in the meter cupboard, just didn’t show the paddle.

[@artisanelectrics]

Great video guys! 👍

[@efixx]

Thanks Jordan. 😊

[@harrycollins4347]

I see a Zappi, is that an Artisan special!!!

[@paulprescott7913]

Thanks to Jordan and his vids, if im asked for a car charger now. I recommend the Zappi and its features. And significantly better delivery than another brand. Hasten to say that im not brown nosing Jordan, its just a better unit and thats clear to see.

[@artisanelectrics]

@@paulprescott7913 Thanks Paul!

[@artisanelectrics]

@@harrycollins4347 I didn't install this one but its a lovely looking install!

[@effervescence5664]

Brilliant video as always though Hager, known for backwards compatibility of boards/devices possibly not the best choice for demonstration purposes.

[@efixx]

Spread the word on this - amazing how many folks ram any old breaker in.

[@effervescence5664]

@@efixx Seen that all too often with Wylex and other boards but not a usual thing with Hager down this way. Possibly people are just used to working on/with the brand more.

[@paulprescott7913]

@@efixx its a major problem isnt it. I did note that the existing hager board had a new style breaker in it.

[@rtelectrical9574]

The video shows a new Hager MCB type in the board already. 😂

[@scabthecat]

It would be great if you guys could come to work with me. I just want you to sit in the van and wait for me to come out and ask you questions. Be right handy would that.

[@efixx]

We can do that all day long - just leave a flask and a selection of 🥧

[@scabthecat]

@@efixx You're on. I'll text you the address.

[@keithnewton8981]

I have just had my ev charger fitted and they never went near the consumer unit. I asked the man if he need access to it he said no. They do not wire to the consumer unit or fit any my consumer unit at 3 spares either side but it was not used. So why are people going on about consumer units in these video. My charger is not wired to the consumer unit. I have nothing likes this fitter the a new breaker in my meter locker and that's it . Was told the surge protection was built into the charging unit.

[@efixx]

It’s the installer preference on how they do things.

[@Mark-ij2nh]

I would stick a nice 10mm T/E or even 16mm on either a 50A or 63A....future proof for higher KW EV

[@joecoco88]

Can’t put a 10mm on a 50a

[@guffermeister]

Why did the meter companies take such a step back and remove the safe means of isolation to the consumer side of the meter allowing you to change the tails if needed. And then not retrofit a suitable means of isolating meter tails when they removed such functionality from those meters that had it like this Siemens unit? Stupid.

[@christastic100]

Something to note is some manufacturers now suggest a 40 amp MCB for surge device. Definitely would seal the meter cabinet holes , but it looks very neat . Can I ask if the RCD protection was built into the charger and last time I did an EV point it was made TT . As always a great useful vlog

[@efixx]

Inside the Zappi 2 smart electric vehicle EV charger which doesn't need an earth rod on TNCS systems kzbin.info/www/bejne/najQmnqca9l2nqc Great technology in the Zappi hence no earth rod required...

[@stevecroot1470]

Why not just replace the old DB with a new one? Faffing around adding Henley blocks and extra tails + a second board seems over-kill.

[@efixx]

Most EV installers are fitting a small consumer unit to avoid taking responsibility for the existing installation.

[@grumblewoof4721]

I wonder about the suitability of the mains supply to a house and what load it can take. The cables that come down the street where I live are three phase with each phase going to a different set of houses (normal I think). Within a phase I could imagine houses all having a fast charging point for their EV, electric heating inside the house, electric hobs and cookers, washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, toasters, kettles, fridges and TV's in multiple rooms ... and lights. What would happen if every household turned everything on at once and were fast charging their EV ? Could the mains supplies to the street handle that ? I ask because I have had several incidents in my street where the under ground wiring has failed and we have had outages while they repair it (digging holes). One incident caused a huge surge that overloaded my neighbours TV (on standby) and it caught fire in the early hours of the morning. Her and her family were nearly killed and my adjacent house, that is part of the terrace, suffered smoke damage. A number of residents had appliance damage as well, presumably on the phase that was effected. Given the larger number of EV's and charging points being fitted, is this a scenario we will see more of, particularly in older neighborhoods with doggy underground wiring ?

[@andywarrington4738]

all these electric vehicle points wont be possible yet due to supply constraints , it all looks good in a computer but the reality is far different

[@johnlatchford9425]

I heard an estimate that 30,000 Km of old underground wiring in residential streets will need replacing to allow EV charging.

[@grumblewoof4721]

@@johnlatchford9425 that sounds probanly an underestimate but on top of that wexwould likely need many more substations and a smart grid.

[@MarkBateman]

So can you explain why you cant just change out the AC RCD on the existing board for a Type A and then add a 40amp MCB for the EV circuit? Thanks

[@harveylinney]

Engineering decision 😂😂🤣…. Too many trades these days class themselves as engineers 😂🤣…. You made an electrician decision.

[@SPDTDL]

Just purchased a 4 year old new build. It has an EV charger installed using 2.5mm T&A, with a 25A MCB on the consumer unit. Charger has been capped to 25A using dip switches inside the unit. When I plug my car in, as expected it’s capped at 25A which is fast enough for me. Is this OK or should I be expecting a house fire? 😅

[@NickW1111]

Does the earth Henley block become a main earth terminal and so need a Safety Electrical Earth label by it?

[@petersylvester2905]

That main switch is awful, I wouldn't class that as accessible for switching off, house on fire trying to work out how to isolate the mains.

[@marklola12]

This is all well and good on a house that is not overly old but what about a house that was built in 1979 lol apparently we need to have a new fuse or something since ours can not handle EV charging and its the original electrics, outside we do have a newer electric meter and gas meter installed but inside we have the original metal wall plate that has a row of black switches on to turn parts of the houses electric off. when i see videos about EV installations its always newer houses with the type of wall boxes shown at 0:43

[@lesmoor001]

i feel humbled by his level of knowledge

[@efixx]

He's a clever bloke old Gaz. Joe

[@Davidhjrick]

I have an external 3pin socket at the front of my house. Can I leave the cable to my fuse box in place and just swap the external socket box with a 7KW EV charger box? 🤞🏻

[@MS-Patriot2]

Er… only if you want your house to catch fire.

[@jasonnonumber]

I see that the service head is on a looped supply, does this mean the supply should be unlooped by the DNO before the EV point can be comissioned?

[@markbradley5746]

I clocked that as well... no mention of it in the vid was there 🤔

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

You don't have a RCD in the consumer unit because of DC saturation and blinding but the zappi has a type A RCD built in to protect it from DC fault.So this will never happen. So a AC RCD could protect the cable to the yappi. video gets you thinking thou.

[@andyxox4168]

... the cash cow often er stops giving ... consumer would have been adequately served by an rcd in the existing consumer unit.

[@TheEulerID]

Personally, I prefer the idea of an external CU, and definitely where you have an external meter cupboard unless there are some very specific circumstance. It means that the household and EV side of things can be kept almost wholly separate. It also minimises power loss in the cabling, avoids disturbing existing decoration and so on. In my case, it's definitely the route I would take as the back of my detached garage faces the house wall with the meter cupboard. Also, I can use it to rectify something I hate, which is that the existing SWA that feeds the garage is connected into the back of the ground floor ring circuit. It's 4mm, so at a stretch if might be enough for an EV charger with some sort of load control, but I think I will go for 5 way 6mm SWA which would allow for any future three-phase upgrade (and, in principle, when wired for single phase the two wires could be paralleled for each of the line and neutrals which I estimate would save around 60 watts on a 7.2 kW load). I just forsee me doing a lot of digging...

[@TheHawkeye001]

Re: Using the same type of breaker topic around 2:05 mark - when electricians install new CU's' is it standard practice to advise the customer to have some spare MCB's/RCBO's in case new circuits are added in future? As a homeowner I just assumed I could always get hold of a breaker from the same manufacturer and it would be backwards compatible

[@Poorlybobsdad]

That’s a nice install but it seems a large extra cost for a new consumer unit and main fuse mods for the sake of tracking down the right Hager MCB on the existing none RCD side. Is that the only reason why you wouldn’t come off that spare way?

[@thomasbrink760]

as an apprentice in denmark my boss would kill me for that cable management

[@ciaranharrington4141]

Whats up with it

[@thomasbrink760]

@@ciaranharrington4141 its not straight, gay parades have been more straight

[@terencewright2223]

Excellent video, thank you. Keep up the good work. Do you have any videos on solar panels and storage power units?

[@efixx]

thanks 🙏 We have this one on inverters, which links to one on battery storage - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJLMo31omMhsrKs

[@grahamturner6119]

Ýea but you said nothing. More In meter box but what about e 3 connector blocks you have contradicted your selves

[@julianmair3047]

So Now there is no Main switch ! on this installation I would say Non compliant with BS7671 : 462.1.201, 462.2 ! There is only 1 incoming supply which is now divided in to 2 sets of Tails ,which an ordinary person may not Know they have to switch 2 switchs to isolate in an emergency! Also the new consumer unit protective deviices were not labelled, You qualified this by saying not yet commisioned ! the installation was clearly Energised and should not have been so if not commisioned!!, Also what distance was the consumer unit from the Meter Cabinet was it within the 2.5 meters?. Why didnt the installer Install a Double pole or even Four Pole isolator in the Meter box then there would have been a main Switch! for the installation. regards Julian Cambridge

[@RichardSmith-xd2ck]

Is this property on a looped supply as there are two cables entering the main fuse block?

[@bertblankenstein3738]

Probably a fine video of you live in the UK/Europe, but it won't apply much to North America. mm2 to gage, and all those acronyms that you'll need to look up, coffee l coffee for your area, etc. One comment: I really can't understand why plastic circuit breaker housings were ever allowed. That just seems wrong.

[@digitaria]

Has the house got LED down lights? Those causes dc leakage issues too. I would always recommend a new consumer unit. Wouldn't a time delayed rcd solve the selectivity issue? Where are the Isolation switches at the meter? How much did the DNO charge to pull the fuse?

[@Mark-ij2nh]

Have to be careful if a surge protective device is attached to ring mains or radials that have new electronic devices as they have their own protective device built into the power units and can actually cause an issue

[@charlie6852]

So instead of sourcing a Hager 32a Rcd at max £50 you have installed a new consumer unit for about £500...........makes sense

[@markgilder9990]

Zappi2 best unit on the market.

[@stuartandrews4344]

Nothing better.

[@efixx]

We love it. 👍

[@seemyLeakypantsTV]

Project EV are pretty decent as well. Has the same bells and whistles as Zappi.

[@stuartandrews4344]

@@seemyLeakypantsTV Zappi more stylish

[@neilomalley9887]

I’ve never seen an electrician review another electricians work and not have any criticism at all which makes me suspect they did this work before making this video. Installation looks ok but finding that MCB would have been the best thing to do not installing tons of extra stuff and charging the client loads, if my electrician tried to do this I’d be annoyed.

[@jas20per]

A perfect installation to enable another meter to register how much charging electricity is being used exclusively for vehicle charging. Now you may laugh and think I have lost the plot but it will not be long in the future when the government will need to make up the lost revenue from Petrol and Diesel sales. Remember that Income tax was just a temporary tax introduced in the great War. so if you own an electric vehicle or thinking of purchasing one in the future have a charger fitted on the quiet with no fuss or paperwork. You have been warned!!!

[@iancoles1349]

Read comments here.I will say this got all qualifications for electrician and 30 years experience in industry Hnd electrical engineering and digree electrical systems all be it back in the 80s.Although it all means good and the rcd types should have been common long time coming.By the time we all make Money out of it and put it all correct we be in a war and housing prices would all fall and all electricians would be going to daddy cos there's no one paying for the upgrades.All these fancy fancy connectors and plastic switches are there for one reason.To catch a fishermans eye

[@saulbelford7618]

could you have fitted the Henley blocks next to db so you dont have to run the new db tails all the way back to the meter cupboard??? Perhaps fitting them in enclosure if required. thanks

[@merlin1346]

and you all these cars were going to be cheaper, dont forget the FIVE BILLION £ revenue the government needs to claw back in lost revenue from internal combustion engines...

[@CepheiVV]

Did I get it wrong or there is no RCD protection all the way down from the mains panel to the charger unit? What does protect against residual current throughout all that length?

[@seanmcneill8899]

Inside work very tidy, outside Meter box is so untidy, no clips and no labels on any of the cables.

[@AlanJan_UK_49]

The tails going from my meter to the consumer unit are not 25mm but 16mm. I remember the meter installing telling me that. Does that mean I'd have to replace the 16mm if I wanted to one day get an EV charger installed ?

[@efixx]

Yes unless the demand from the rest of your house is very low and /or the service fuse is just 60Amps and you fit a charger which measures the power use at the supply intake - e.g the Zappi by Myenergi

[@AlanJan_UK_49]

@@efixx Thanks.

[@TwoEsk8Riders]

Have you used a 2.5 out of the 32a MCB feeding the surge protection ? Is that too small ?

[@jonny5514]

So how to you go on when you don’t have an old style stopcock with visible bonding ? , I have a surestop switch under the sink in the Cuboard with no visible bonding as the pipes run behind the built in cuboard , council told me the old stopcock would have been cut out when the surestop switch was put in .

[@HereForTheMusic-h5o]

I see all the time in my industry, people take feeds to Solar PV inverters from AC type RCD's. If that RCD has a lot of electrical equipment already operating on the circuits it protects, the chances of DC saturation are already very high, meaning that RCD could fail under fault conditions. Fronius (an Austrian inverter manufacturer) issued a statement some years ago stating their inverters should be installed on an A type RCD, but in reality most often, the manufacturers guide doesn't specify an RCD type for electrical equipment. Depending on the installation, the circuit *most often, doesn't need RCD protection, according to the wiring regulations. My personal preference is to split the tails into a Henley block and put the PV on its own two way board, with either a 100A main switch or an appropriately rated RCD that is also of the correct type. Another issue I see quite often, two way boards installed with a 63A 30mA RCD, if the cutout fuse is 100A why would someone install a 63A RCD?

[@acelectricalsecurity]

You have to remember for donkeys years now, we have only really used one type of RCD for everything, the ac type, then all of a sudden all these other types come to market, and I am very sceptical as to who is driving the industry manufacturers or the Muppets, better known as the IET. And to be honest, the push is to put an RCD on nearly every circuit, and can be quite difficult to get around in some instances. Also we are trusting a mechanical device, and there's about a 10% failure rate, which is a lot, then they never get tested, no one pushes the test button, so again they can stick. As for the inverter manufacturer putting out that warning, manufacturers will do anything to cover their bum, just like board manufacturers that say to check their terminations, why, if they are at the correct torque when they leave the factory why should I check them. I do, but shouldn't have to.

[@johnkeepin7527]

A few years ago when I had solar PV installed at my place, the installer followed your preference, with a new dedicated 40A RCD and avoided the older consumer unit altogether, with a pair of new cables into the existing meter box on the other side of the wall - about 1/2 metre away max.

[@holmesjunction]

6:07 The service head is mounted on a 'scrap' of chipboard screwed/wedged at an angle against the main mounting board (don't know when this was done). Should this have ever passed inspection?

[@BezosAutomaticEye]

I've seen alot that are like this. Is it to avoid two sharp bends in the main incomer if the cutout were mounted on the back board? don't know. Any DNOs on?

[@NickW1111]

I’ve that setup at home - the chipboard wedge is pretty solid and with the incomes being surface mounted and so coming in close to the front of the meter box, it makes for an easy path to the cut-out.

[@efixx]

What issue could it cause?

[@Daniells1982]

Quite common on new builds to see this. I assume it's the DNO that fit them as they fit the service head.

[@holmesjunction]

​@@efixx - It brings the service head closer to the front, increasing potential of accidental damage or ingress of water (especially if door open or damaged). Is it an approved adaption to the fixing of items within a cabinet under BS7671 Certification (especially if it’s from new)?

[@lucypalmer]

Hi there! Is it possible I might need a new commercial unit installed before an EV home charge point installation could be carried out? Thank you!

[@efixx]

New series looking at commercial / workplace charging coming soon.

[@Marco-mg9tv]

The tails for the addition “EV” board appear to be routed through the cavity, as do the main DB tails - arguably poor workmanship/against building regs bridging the cavity ?

[@efixx]

It's a double skin wall but there's no cavity as it's a garage wall. 👍

[@earlyyearslearningisfun]

Fantastic video Gaz and Joe 👍

[@dvrn86]

Great video lads. Really helps with keeping the knowledge in the trade up to current standards 👌

[@gino2465]

Hi guys another great video, may I ask what was the distance from the cut out to the new cu installed.

[@efixx]

It consumer unit is almost directly behind the meter box -.so 1.5m tails.

[@smiffysmiffy123]

No isolation switch, how was the system made safe for the Addition of new consumer unit?

[@paulmanning9540]

Get on E-bay for old breakers. There is usually some bright spark that saves them off old boards and sells them on.

[@dibraniuk]

Not a good idea to install metering ct on the metter tail no matter the ev chargers requirement; install it further downstream instead and keep the metter surrounds clear.

[@emmetg888]

Having two 100amp main mcbs on separate boards in the property allows a potentially combined flow of 200amps from one mains incoming 100amp supply can lead to overloading on the mains hrc no??

[@ricocasilli3307]

no

[@fenixfp40]

I don’t own an electric vehicle so have installed a petrol pump.

[@pythongrun]

Great video. Sadly cancelled my EV Charge Point install today after contractor tried to rip me off.

[@andreaastolfi1234]

Why install only breakers from the same manifacture of the Consumer Unit ? Here in Italy is most an aesthetic reason, not mandatory. DIN is a standard for all the modular components, so they are interchanagable. Furthermore, there are many industries that produce only the Consumer unit itself, so you need to buy the breakers from someone else...

[@GchildLIVE]

You'll find in most cases it will be down to following manufacturers instructions

[@deanread1338]

Where is the main switch to isolate the complete installation ? or do you have to go to each DB in the event of a fire

[@alphatucana]

Interesting; took me a while to figure out what 'EV' means ('Electric Vehicle,' I suppose), and I still don't know 'RCD' or 'PME'. 'AC' and 'DC' were OK though.

[@efixx]

RCD is Residual Current Device. PME Protective Multiple Earthing.

[@jimbo2629]

All abbreviations should be explained at the start of any dissertation or the first use, even when the audience is expected to be knowledgeable.

[@acelectricalsecurity]

With the RCD being built-in to the charger, how does the owner do a test on it, that is operate a manual test button, and do you carry out an RCD test as you would a regular stand alone RCD.

[@JimWhitaker]

Good question. Taking the front off that charger every three months would be a pain. ;-) Or does this just illustrate that three-monthly testing of RCD's is not really required?

[@RustyRecovery]

Good video. If the current consumer unit was new and the correct mcb could be sourced and inserted into a non rcd protected spare way, could that consumer unit be used instead of installing an additional one ?

[@efixx]

Yes that is one option - but a struggle if you want to add surge protection.

[@Tom-Lahaye]

When the EV charging station has its own RCD built in, is it connected to the main earth rail in your consumer box, or does it need another means to connect to earth (eg a separate earth pin)? Solar power systems can feed DC in your system as well, does the inverter have its own RCD protection like the charging station?

[@efixx]

It depends on how the manufacturer makes the charger. The Zappi 2 can be connected to the earth bar but others require an earth rod.

[@jwillisbarrie]

Thanks for adding captions for the Deaf. Makes your video much clearer and better to understand, gave video a like and subscribed.

[@efixx]

Thanks Jim 👍🏻

[@1965GJS13]

How would you handle adding an EV charger to a house where the consumer-unit is NOT in somewhere handy like a garage, but is in a wall-cabinet in a room in the house, so that *ANY* cabling or extra boxes etc *canNOT* be anywhere *outside* that cabinet for aesthetic reasons (ask the wife!). The consumer-unit cabinet is only a little-bigger than the consumer-unit itself. Could the new separate consumer-unit just for the EV charger be placed *OUTSIDE* the house near the EV charger for example? Possibly in the outside meter-cupboard, or in a new wall-cabinet of some sort on the *outside* of the house?

[@efixx]

Yes you can but the small consumer unit would have to be located within 3 meters of the electricity meter. Some installers will place them in the meter box, however this is frowned upon by the DNO and energy suppliers. You can locate a small waterproof consumer unit close to the meter box. - hope this helps

[@1965GJS13]

@@efixx Thank you. That's perfect, and would work fine. In my case, the original consumer unit, the meter cupboard, and the likely position for the EV charger would all be on either side of the same common wall within maybe a metre of each other.

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

It seems common to fit a new consumer unit- and, of course, it has nothing to do with the little discussed plans to make both vehicle charging and heat pumps liable to load shedding. Lot easier to wire that up when there is a separate consumer unit.

[@Mark-ij2nh]

What a lazy sod he could have tried to source the breakers online. I rewired a house and sourced a couple of 32s 20s and a b6 for additional circuits. Even people sell older breakers online would have cheaper for the customer and less complexity.

[@efixx]

The customer was extremely happy with the price! 😊

[@stranglx]

Unfortunately as the so called RCD in the Zappi Charger there doesn’t comply with any of the BSEN numbers for RCDs mentioned in part 7 of BS7671, this installation was non compliant with BS7671 at the time of installation. Myenergi were aware of this but falsely advertised their Zappi charger by saying it did not require an RCD upfront and published a document in 2022 that said that it was “fully compliant with the 18th edition amendment 2 of BS7671.

[@Daniells1982]

The SPD doesn't look like a Crabtree SPD. I've queried this with Wylex where I've found other sparks using non Wylex SPDs in their consumer units. Their response was...'if the product installed within the consumer unit is a non Wylex product then the installer becomes the guarantor of the whole assembly'. Since Crabtree are part of the Electrium Group I'd expect their response to be the same. Like the MCB example u used in the video, the same applies to SPDs as it comes down to type testing.

[@Daniells1982]

You really want to hear it from the consumer unit manufacturer though? In my experience they want nothing to do with other manufacturer's gear. Don't shoot the messenger mate, just saying what Wylex technical said when I queried it.

[@Daniells1982]

Yeah I agree mate. It's a tricky one. I'd always just go with the CU manufacturer's SPD for my own peace of mind (knowing product testing should have been completed as an assembly) and if the worst were to happen, to avoid any finger pointing between installer and manufacturer(s). Cost will likely come into it but it is what it is I suppose.

[@efixx]

Interesting point for discussion. Thanks for bringing it up. 👍

[@markholmes4143]

Quite agree with your comment @Daniells1982 What code would you give for the mixing of manufacturer on the next EICR. If it was a MCB with no signs of damage guidance suggests code 3, would it be the same for the SPD. The CPS scheme's should really be sorting this out to give guidance before thousands are installed, maybe efixx could grasp the batton.

[@Daniells1982]

@@markholmes4143 I'd probably say that's a fair assessment mate. Mixing manufacturers just isn't worth the hassle in my opinion. U may end up paying more but if you stick with one manufacturer you can't go far wrong and at least if there was an issue down the line that's no fault of the installer I'd hope there is some support from the manufacturer if you've used their 'system'. I think guys just need to be aware that mixing manufacturers gear in a CU, including in line meters, bell transformers etc you're taking some responsibility away from the manufacturer and taking it on as the installer, becoming the 'guarantor ' was the term they used.

[@westinthewest]

I smell BS when I read manufacturers' instructions, especially when they mention 'Type Testing'. I get confused when I read about who makes MCBs for whom and which factory in China will stick your brand name on their generic device or enclosure. Remember how recently all these established brands were selling flimsy plastic boxes with two cheap quarter-turn plastic screws to hold the front cover in place (see the Hager board in this video). I recently bought a 4-way Wylex enclosure with a plastic DIN rail! If you Google 'MCB recall' you'll see Wylex, Hager, Crabtree, Volex and MK Sentry in the hall of shame. Every situation requires careful engineering judgement rather than deferring completely to the manufacturer's literature, especially when we see evidence that their systems aren't sufficiently trustworthy. The addition of a new consumer unit here has involved a lot of time and expense for the customer. One option is to change all the MCBs in the existing board to any suitable brand which is readily available as new stock. In this Hager board, you could just replace the three non-RCD devices to match your new addition. The blank space separating the RCD-side will protect the remaining Hager MCBs from any detrimental thermal effects, and vice-verca. Our new devices will be adjacent to the Hager main switch, but I think we should assume that there should be no thermal funny business going on in there - unless that one is also the subject of a safety recall!

[@cuebj]

So how do you find a really good sparky who thinks, diagnoses, and communicates clearly with me with my 'A' level physics and, before regs changed, did a fair amount of household wiring following the books to the letter? I haven't found one who takes any time, cleans drill dust out of the back boxes, or listens to what I say. Contrast the excellent plasterers, plumbers, general builders I've used in south east London. With side, loft, and tear extensions, we have lots of lighting, power, shower, cooker circuits and want to plan for EV.

[@efixx]

See if they are on Instagram and see the quality of work that they post. We follow some inspirational electricians.

[@supersparks9466]

Well you havnt used me Steven, but I don’t work in east London so your search continues

[@neiltrevatt]

No cut out fuse between meter and fuse board just the main fuse a total no no use to be because it’s going through fabric of building no matter how short a run the tails are

[@tww5719]

Yes I agree especially where you can see there is plenty of room 👍

[@neiltrevatt]

DNO use to specify you put in a fuse between there meter and your cu not a switch fuse because that could be switched off but a fuse in a inclosed box that then could be sealed so any problem with tails going through wall your fuse would blow not DNO fuse . So in place of henlys blocks in video

[@neiltrevatt]

@@johnhoward2104 totally agree I am just saying it’s what DNO use to ask for in and around London the old LEB and EEB not in the game anymore so not up to current standards

[@johngould8024]

I have a spare 32amp in my consumer unit which was originally for the shower, but replaced with thermostatic shower. Could this be used for the ev charger? Cheers

[@rtelectrical9574]

Before I start. I’m not a geek. As I like to give value for money on my installations. So why did they install “Another” consumer unit. They have altered all the tails at DNO end, and still left in a plastic consumer unit with no SPD protection for those circuits. Why didn’t they either just install it into the existing DB, or change the DB to the current standard. For me, this installation has made the “Overall” installation worse. Like people have commented in this post, 5 electricians give 5 different answers. The industry is flawed, and I’ve been an electrician for 20 years.

[@ballamoto]

Just watched your other video about looped systems. You mentioned that 2 cables coming in means a looped system, and that's trouble for EV chargers. Is this not a looped system then? As it has 2 cables coming into the property.

[@johnburrows7938]

Holy crap…it’s Eric bristowe..

[@DC-dp3hk]

Doesn't the installation require a single means of isolation?