FERRULES ON STRANDED CONDUCTORS: Should you use them?

[@efixx]

Class 2 conductors are used within conduit wiring and larger sizes of twin and earth cables. More information on class 2 conductors kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYmQf4x5esuJos0

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Unlike other types of crimp connectors, ferrules do not rely much on the quality of the initial crimp, as they get compressed more by the screw terminal. Obviously this is not the case when use in screwless terminals, in which case crimp quality is important.

[@kittsdiy]

agreed .. you can put a 16mm ferrule on a fine stranded cable and use the fuse/terminal to crimp it . I have seen many electricians do this ..

[@TimmyBoja]

My thoughts exactly.

[@andrecostin1288]

I agree. The ferrule will protect the wire strands. I like to use inside boards for screw terminals in case the wire needs to be later removed. Bare twisted wire will not stand up to repeated connection cycles. Screw-less terminals could be a different thing. I don't see advantage and could be disadvantage. Better to use PTV/pin/blade terminal I guess.

[@patrickoregan2148]

@@kittsdiy I've seen this too but the connections while clamped on the ferrule the cable was loose inside the ferrule. Hence why I always crimp as this helps the ferrule squeeze onto the cable

[@kittsdiy]

@@patrickoregan2148 yup i also crimp them first

[@qshed]

EN60204 (electrical safety of machines) Requires the use of ferrules in screw terminals with any stranded cables. So I love them

[@stephenpike3147]

Yes if there is ANY chance of the strands not being properly contained in the receiving piece of electrical equipment for the reasons you have high lighted - shorts, live part risk and current rating (includes contact area and pressure). On class 5 cable (including tri-rated and electrical equipment wire) always, its the best way of ensuring the strands are correctly contained, easy to do, controllable and finished result easy to see and check! The golden caveat has to be use the right ferrule for the cable and its intended termination point. Bonus is removal for replacement and wire numbers are retained and ends do not get damaged, so much easier to reconnect versus unferruled wire ends..... The question I would ask is why on class 5 do you need to if the receiving end is designed to take a bare end? In my book bad joints only come about from wrong tools used, wrong or incompatible parts or wrong method employed (that includes rushing ones work or an attitude of I think its in it will do, working blind etc).

[@djordjeblaga7815]

Fun fact: We do use Class 2 over here. It just that we use it almost exclusively in panel feeds, starting at 16mm². It is used because absolutly nobody has any sort of fun working with a solid 16mm² conductor, let alone 5 of them bundled in a cable.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

ferrule crimps are a great time saving invention for stranded cables. BUT I'm a sucker for twisting and tinning the strands with solder. Working with automotive wiring in my youth, soldered connections, would always keep a good connection. When a crimped connection got wet and "fizzing" , it would start to make green gunk, and make a bad connection. Soldered connections fair much better with dampness. This was with 12v-24v DC systems were water is not much of a shock risk.

[@jonathanireland2913]

One main benefit of using Ferrule crimps rather than a conventional crimp as we know it is that with a ferrule you actually clamp down onto the cable end as well as the crimp, whereas obviously with conventional crimps you are only clamping onto the crimp end and not the cable too. We build control panels regularly and use ferrule crimps, they are fantastic and I wouldn't use fine stranded cable without them. The repeatability of a ferruled end cannot be underestimated for its ease and time saving capabilities... When fault finding or upgrading on an old control panel I have to say there is nothing worse than when they haven't used ferrules, it makes sense if they had to use fork crimps on old Telemecanique contactors etc. but when going un-crimped it is down right lazy and un-professional

[@efixx]

Agreed, I used to build a lot of panels back in the day and used ferrules on all the tri-rated and flexible conductors. 👍

[@effervescence5664]

This needs to go hand in hand with torque requirements. I've had it where the correct torque 2.5nM on 6mm or 10mm shower and EV charger supplies using solid core and stranded cables and they've not made good contact because they've splayed and easily pulled out of the terminals at the correct torque, yet if you use a ferule to keep them together they don't pull out of the terminals so easily. Or you could just over tighten the terminals and crush them to the point they'll never pull out. There is the benefit on earthing conductors that they become more crush resistant so are less likely to sheer off causing missing earths in consumer units on smaller cables 1/1.5mm even when terminated at the correct nM. Personally I'd like to see a return of the rounded terminals rather than the clamping cage ones as the connection on older terminals felt much more solid.

[@gustavgans3760]

As hard es you struggled with the german, you actually managed pronounce everything correct.

[@efixx]

Phew, my wife thought I was crazy I was practising so much! 😂

[@Mike_5]

These work very well on your work boot laces too

[@steve11211]

I don't think I would above 6mm but if you consider the crimp as just keeping the strands together and correctly tighten the terminal to the crimp it is malleable enough that it will not interfere or make the connection looser so can't see an issue with it personally.. Interesting to hear if others have a different opinion.

[@markrainford1219]

Yes, think the same, just keeps strands together.the

[@millomweb]

I never consider using them. I'd use screw connectors or solder.

[@zoltrix7779]

I agree, I see no issue with anything upto 6mm2 at all... beyond that, their might be an issue. The Ferrule is so soft, you will get a good connection under the screw. I bet you could not crimp it and be fine, but I always crimp it first. Use, them, don't use them. Nothing much the argue here unless you are just simply looking for an argument.

[@sammarshall2734]

@@millomweb are you from India? Who solders connections

[@shaneporthouse3175]

Just done a job where ferrules had been used on class 2 conductors on the heating cables inside a bunch of 3 phase contactors and they were a mess, every single one had gone crispy and they were in a sorry state, in fact you could actually see the hot spot that had been created through the ferrules being there. I re terminated and blue pin crimped the lot. My personal take on it is Red/blue/yellow (standard) crimps for solid/class two and ferrules for anything finer than that.

[@windward2818]

What wire gauge where the class 2 conductors that had a failed ferrule?

[@GroovyG0]

1: No mention of BS 7671:2018 (etc) 526.9.1 2: A dozen or so years ago I spent a week on a charity ship working alongside their sparks (mostly volunteers, but obviously professionally supervised). The requirement there to ferrule everything including Class 2 surprised me at the time.

[@adambrant7357]

I would fit ferrules on all stranded cables regardless of class if fitted into screw type terminals. Class 5 stranded cables however (imo) should always be ferruled no matter the terminal type.

[@johnflower8648]

I found the main use for bootlace ferrules was to retain marker sleeves.

[@efixx]

😂#toptip

[@thattoolguy9432]

Its a good subject Joe, if you dig deeper you will find out how confusing it can get .. biggest ferrule die i have is 50mm and as you said, can only be used with the correct ferrule .. i wouldn't trust a no brand crimper and ferrule and then use it in a wago .. i did cringe when i saw a well known youtube spark use ferrules on class 1 conductors (because it looked good )

[@kittsdiy]

no need to put ferrules when using a wago 221 .. as soon i need to make a connection betweeen solid copper en file stranded wire i use wago221 .. wago push connectors only use on solid copper wire ( or multi solid cores ) using fine stranded wire with a ferrule in normaal push wago is not what it is dessigned for ..( i have seen people do this .. but not mee )

[@tommymack3210]

@@kittsdiy +1

[@thattoolguy9432]

I know, i was using it as an example of screw less termination

[@cuebj]

@@kittsdiy diyer here who has been let down by so many fully registered sparks that I wondered what their training and registration meant. Or three sparks have 4 violently held different opinions and can quote chapter and verse for their view. Then I read regs and realised they often don't specify things clearly and even contradict themselves. As you say, I use push fit Wagos for solid wire, lever Wagos for solid and stranded, ferrules for stranded into screw fixings, eg switches in grid, bend solid wire back on itself for screw housings. The last, I learned from internet having never seen it in any work by pros in my home and wondering for years why their wiring came loose sometimes immediately, sometimes in a few years. First saw it on KZbin by John McGrath - a woodwork show - he's a pro sparky in his day job. No wire ever shows outside housings in anything I've done. Learned that from a friend who qualified as electrician while working with me in data mining program development. He fancied earning extra at weekends but part time electrician can't earn enough to cover all the memberships, insurances, etc. Pros have left wire exposed or plastic not stripped back far enough so bad connection. From what I've seen, they have less qualified staff do a fast job of shoving cable through my conduit and connecting socket or switch. Then registered guy dashes round 'inspecting' it. Had torque screwdriver system already for bicycle maintenance.

[@brianscott3021]

Where Ferrell crip connections come in handy is on parts that at frequently replaced because they prevent the wires from becoming unwound

[@therzook]

I had heated debate with one of my apprentice's tutor about, he would use them and required them. I have shown what happened to brand new motor DOL setup where 2.5 cables were all ferruled and then pull tested. It did not last 4 weeks thermal effects were obvious. Probably local overhesting destroyed connectors in contactor and had detrimental effect on motor protection. Conclusion, use ferrules when number of strands is 24 or more (for small conductor csas) for bigger csas use your judgment

[@MrJustbrowsing12345]

I even crimp my flex in my electric plugs 💪

[@mowcius]

Same here. I've put a lot of bootlace ferrules in plugs. Class 5 cable though isn't it.

[@kittsdiy]

me to ..that is fine stranded cable .. and if the plugs terminals are only a screw holding the wire .. it better to put ferrules on it ..

[@efixx]

Quality. 👍

[@cuebj]

Good point. Think I'll check all my plugs that aren't sealed

[@cannonball9177]

Put the ferrule on backwards then crimp it, snip the insulated part off you will be making factory fresh connections 😎

[@TheEulerID]

My strong suspicion is that by the time the screw is fastened down properly onto the crimp, then it will crush it sufficiently that it will make very good electrical contact. However, that's not proof of course. It also has the advantage of containing the strands and stopping them spreading. Screwless connectors are, of course, a completely different game. There I would think that it's much less secure and to be avoided.

[@carlrobson5745]

The company I work for bulids large industrial equipment we use tri rated cable and use bootlace ferrules our knippex and cembre crimpers are sent away yearly for calibration.

[@efixx]

That is excellent practice, getting them calibrated. Love it. 👍

[@julielowe7462]

I have used these for many power tool repairs-Julie

[@mattnorman4007]

Ferrules have arrived. All shall be ferruled. They make a sexy job to be fair

[@syproful]

My personal opinion is that class 2 should only be used on caged connections. So no screw can dig into it and spread the wires in the compression.

[@angussms]

Great stuff Joe. I use on flexible cables only. Thanks John Angus

[@efixx]

Actual John Angus? Legendary electrician off of the builds?! 😃

[@Nitrxgen]

@@efixx No, he was just thanking John Angus.

[@windward2818]

The "Evaluation" of Weidmuller ferrules and Weidmuller ferrule crimping tools work fine on class 2 stranded if the ferrule crimp style best matches the type of screw connection (the screw is being used as a ram from the top pressing the conductor in to the body of the receiver and not wrapping the wire under a screw flange). I think the crimping tool needs to be of high quality in order to get a very high pressure (meaning high leverage) ferrule crimp, and best match the crimp to the screw attached shape; square, hex, half round, ect. so you need to have a selection of tools available. The odd approach in the video is to point out the standard as a focus for class 5, or in the USA called flex, meaning constructed of much finer strands than class 2, when it is obvious that the challenge for fine stranded flex wire is it will not keep its shape under a basic screw top ram type clamp design. However, you have the same problem with class 2 if you just take time to see how the screw ram deforms (splays) basically any type of stranding as compared to a solid single conductor, which is generally accepted as the expected type of construction for the ram type of pressure connection. In my opinion, you don't have any real good alternative than to use a ferrule on a class 2 conductor with a shape that best matches to screw hold down design. For a regular screw head (like on a receptacle) for class two conductors (THHN/THWN as just one example) I like to use a locking spade crimp terminal (I have some very strong terminal crimping tools (from Pressmaster), one for insulated and one for non-insulated) rather than trying to wrap the stranded wire underneath the screw head. If you use a locking spade and torque the screw to specification I have never had one come loose (as far as I know, and my customers would let me know). The connection is much like you would have in an old control cabinet if you were to use a screw terminal block, which has largely been superseded with rail mounted connection blocks in industrial electrical cabinet design, where the obvious choice is to use a ferrule.

[@glennpowell3444]

I ( not a pro spark) have often used crimps on 2.5 mm with running a loop through a socket and on 6mm for a shower for example as I experience a better tight fix at the terminals and not risk a single strand not secured aswell.6mm is horrible to work with at the best of times! Any little help is just that.

[@chrismaplethorpe6781]

Have worked on sites where ferrules are required whatever the type of cable. Have got into habit of fitting on flexible cores specially on very small stuff.

[@efixx]

Good practice. 👍

[@chrismaplethorpe6781]

@@efixx dont think it is quite so critical on stranded but fit them anyway just out of habit now.

[@tarassu]

I don't use class 2 conductors. Up to 6mm it is ok to use solid conductor. Usually anything above 6mm Aluminium is preferred (longer runs) - 16mm2 the most common (anything smaller is prohibited). I use terminal blocks to get from large Al16 wire to Class5 inside the enclosure for internal wiring. Al16 is also solid. Though Al25 is class2. And huge terminal with hex head and high torque is perfect for Class2 Al25. Therefore no problems with Class2.

[@efixx]

Amazing how things differ across the world - Aluminium is rare in the majority of UK installations.

[@tarassu]

@@efixx Not far from you. Baltics, mostly German DINs copypasted. Al is preferred as €/A*m is significantly cheaper and not even a drop less reliable. Most buried and suspended power lines are Al. This continues up to main metering enclosure where it switches to class5 Cu on the terminals before meter. Sometimes switches back to Al, often not. Both are easy to tighten securely with 2.5-35mm2 terminal blocks. Now if I think... Class2 under MCB would definitely be a problem, as they have flat surfaces that are not optimal for 7 thick strands. Terminals are a way to solve class2 problem.

[@elektronk.5489]

So no ferrules on aluminium class2 185 mm2

[@pedrosmits]

For me it’s depending on the receiving end of the cable, how that mechanism works.

[@kittsdiy]

Square clamping = ferrule not needed Swrew the only thing clampinh the cable = ferrules

[@mattjames106]

I'm an domestic spark and like to use ferrules on cooker and shower isolators. The main benifit is that it stop the conductors from reshuffling (coming loose) when pushing the isolator back to the wall and damaging coductors on the screw. Also ive replaced a lot of burnt out isolators when doing EICR's so rerrules must be better????

[@TheMattSturgeon]

I'd agree. Even if the ferrel isn't a perfect fit for Class 2 (stranded) cable, if you're then using it with a screw terminal it surely must do more good than harm in the examples you point out. 6 & 10mm² are a right pain in small enclosures, even in 47mm deep 2Gang boxes it's still easy to loosen off the connection when screwing back the faceplate! Even a poorly crimped ferrel can only help in that scenario IMO.

[@kittsdiy]

Multicore 6mm wire i don't call stranded cables .. so no don't use ferrules on it . ( rule of thumb is when you bend the wire and the bend stays in .. its not stranded wire for me ) Tales in uk of 25mm are usally also multi core ..never seen any youtuber use ferrules on those . Fine stranded cable is mostly use them .. even in our fuseboards in Belgium .. we use 10mm² standed wire to connect bus bars in a multi row board. Ferrules are recommended when using the clamp that has only a screw pushing on the cable ( when not using a ferrule on fine stranded cable it makes not a verry good connection with all strands ) . Most MCB/RCBO's/Dinrail clamps have square cage clamps.. so ferrules are not realy neeeded . ( but yes i also do it mostly because it's neaterr ) .

[@efixx]

Great comment, thanks very much. 😊

[@Marcel_Germann]

I see Joe, we got a lot of work to do on your pronounciation! It‘s DIN like DIN rail. 😉 Not D-I-N. The interesting part about this is, all call it DIN rail, and here in Germany where the DIN and their standards originate, we call it „hat rail“, because in the profile it looks like a hat. Twin-and-Earth is practically banned here for these reasons: 1. CPC must be identified green/yellow over the whole length of the cable run. That means it's insulated within the cable. Deviation from that only for cables with a concentric CPC, for example NYCY cable. 2. Up to 16mm² the CPC must be of the same size as the line conductor. Ferrules belong on fine stranded, not on stranded conductors. I've seen guys using them on stranded conductors, and depending on the crimping tool, the ferrule will crack open. For the small cross-sectional areas you have in the UK it's probably ok. But stranded is usually 16mm² or larger here in Germany, below that for fixed installation the conductors are always solid core.

[@kittsdiy]

Same here in Belgium ! :-)

[@efixx]

😂 Oh man, I was trying to be too clever. I even looked up how to pronounce the letters in German! I'll do better next time. 👍 Great points you've brought up there as always, thanks for commenting. 😊

[@mathman0101]

pretty much same here in US. Solid conductors until you migrate to larger sized wire.

[@markrainford1219]

I only scrolled down the comments to see what a German thought about his accent.😂

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@efixx The interesting part is also that this standard also defines the material of the ferrules (99.9% copper), galvanically tinned with a thickness of at least 3µm and the dimensions of the ferrule. Colour code is in table 1. But actually no one here cares about the colour code since there are several colour codes around here. This one, Weidmüller, French colour code. And there are also different lengths. For example on 1.5mm² you got E1508, E1510 and E1512. First two digits are cross-sectional area, second two are the length in mm. For 10mm² it's for example E10-12 and E10-18. The minus is there to prevent confusion with the 1.0mm² which have E1006, E1008 and E1010.

[@t.k.tronix0815]

I Wish there we're a cool Elektric German Channel Like this one

[@efixx]

I can attempt more German, not sure you'd actually like that though. 😬😂

[@t.k.tronix0815]

@@efixx Oh , of course i would Like it . That's music to my ears .

[@thomfoun]

Good videos as always

[@efixx]

Thank you! 😊

[@alex_lightning4523]

Actually as much as i know, to comply with vde, national electric standard, specifies the use of a krimping tool for ferules that crimps on the complete area of the ferule with at least two jaws.

[@posei3960]

So if it's on a conductor it's a "bootlace ferrule" But if it's on a bootlace it's an "aiglet"!!!! Discuss, mother and eldest child only. 10 points

[@010falcon]

The ferrule tubes aren't here to stop a short. What are you doing in Great Britain? As per studies at the ETH Zürich, ferrules are here to stop the screw terminal from cutting through the strans and if you don't use ferrules (no matter how many strans), they could split apart and get lose. This has happened often with many wires here, which is why these are required, and should be all around the world.

[@NaydenSpirdonov]

With ferrules class 2 looks pretty

[@efixx]

Hmm, form or function? 🤔

[@solidus784]

In Ireland in any pharma jobs we have to use them on everything stranded. It's so stupid a lot of accessories simply aren't designed for two 4sq wires in shotgun ferrule and often makes for a WORSE connection but we have to do it anyway.

[@cuebj]

Took me a few attempts to get double ferrules to accept wires. Stumbled on solution by accident - very long exposed wires pushed through ferrule 3 or 4cm then trim back usually gets good fit

[@solidus784]

@@cuebj i do the same leave them extra long and never twist them and they slide in

[@farmersteve129]

Let's be honest, most sparks buy whatever ferrules they can lay their hands on - usually el-cheapo ones along with whatever random Amazon/eBay/pretend brand crimp tool that they can lay their hands on that almost certainly doesn't form the crimp to the ferrule manufacturers' specification for shape or crimping pressure - assuming that there is even a spec for that "brand"....

[@Builtbypete]

Ferrules are the only way to go in my opinion.

[@keithtaborkt]

Can I ask what amperage is red blue and yellow

[@william38022]

Well my question is can ferrules be used safely on a Victron 100/50 Smart charge controller my PV in wire is direct burial 10 gauge solar cable my inverter in from inverter to C/C is 4 AWG this is all stranded wire and my battery cable from my C/C to my battery bank(actually to my bus bars that my battery bank is connected to) is 6 AWG that sounds like a lot for a charge controller however that charge controller can make up to 50 Amps and that’s what Victron calls for it’s hard to find a ferrules crimping kit that will do 10 awg all the way up to 4 awg does anyone have any information on this????

[@seandempsey7351]

I don’t know what to make of this or what to say . Except I don’t think it make much difference if you use them or not and the crimp is just that they all do the same thing . But I have to admit I am at a loss . Fantastic video as always Joe 👍👍❤️ oh and you German is better than mine as I can’t speak any German

[@efixx]

😂 The difference between reading and speaking Sean. 👍

[@jooproos6559]

Maybe the Germans had a strange look because they arent using a lot of stranded cable??Like we,the Dutch,use solid wire in our tubes in the homes.Only when there is really a need for stranded wire or cables,then we use them and use ferrules.

[@sparkmanuk]

Their are some crap crimpers out their, like ones that make the ferrule look like a crinkle chip and weakens it, I use press master, only crimps it on the top, and their are variations between German and french crimps in diameter that are meant to be the same size, and variations in AWG/mm2 cable due to who makes the cable that don’t match the crimp according to the size table, I find if it can slide over with some resistance it will make a good crimp, if you can hold the wire to the floor and the ferrule drops off I usually find it’s too big, and if you crimp that the wires splay out.

[@Cleofizoid]

Y'all should hire a couple of Yanks and produce a US 🇺🇸 version of the show.

[@efixx]

We'd love to do that - throw in some names 😀

[@Cleofizoid]

@@efixx ...and whoever y'all find, please, for the love of all that's holy, introduce/demonstrate Wago Lever Nuts...and ferrules to the US. Wire nuts are a worse plague than the 'rona.

[@kristiangoransson6104]

That’s impossible, you’re highly unlikely to find a sparky in the US that would touch anything innovative…

[@plsreleasethekraken]

@@kristiangoransson6104 They exist and are young; but you're right, lots of grumpy "the way I learned it is the only and best way" here.

[@sparkmanuk]

Equipment in my experience is wired with bootlace crimps with stranded wire, it makes sure the screw terminal doesn’t cut through the stands of the equipment wire, conduit wire for fixed insulation I would not used bootlace crimps.

[@dkaloupis75]

Your German is better than mine for sure…

[@ericcarver1341]

Ferrules are terrible. Takes a lot longer to land wires, and you can’t double land wires. Which is a big problem in a plc cabinet when you have limited spots for hots and neutrals.

[@tinytonymaloney7832]

For a moment I thought we were going to see you showing some examples 😕

[@jimsvideos7201]

Seems to me that you'd have to do a pretty bad job of installing a ferrule before it did more harm than good.

[@БорисМухорин]

Need for all cable

[@ja_adam_]

No requirement to fit ferrules

[@HeathenGeek]

"Seek advice form manufacturer of the crimp" Is that something you could do? Since you went to the trouble of making a vid and all

[@justme5384]

Just twist them and it'll be fine

[@millomweb]

I don't use them as a fer rule !

[@ricsip]

Close-ended question, takes 3min56sec to give the usual BS answer: ask the fkin crimper-vendor

[@mathman0101]

Crimp my ride🤦🏾

[@maxheadrom3088]

These Germans ... what a mess!!! Wanna a greater mess? Use a bad and non-German crimp tool! Why some of my ferrule crimps work and some don't? Thanks!

[@stevoc9930]

Nein

[@valmir144]

You talk too much. Show it!

[@jimtorrance3171]

That was a waste of minutes. Told us nothing.

[@efixx]

What do you want to know ?

[@jimtorrance3171]

@@efixx The answer to the question raised on the click bait. Instead it was was a wishy washy non answer.

[@plsreleasethekraken]

@@jimtorrance3171 Not all questions have a black and white answers. That doesn't mean the discussion and exploration of the question isn't valuable.

[@williamelewis464]

I use solder in the cups and a heat gun to puddle it for the larger gage strands.

[@Beariam24]

Hahahah bloody Instagram “sparks” have caused this. Monkey see monkey do! If people did a bit of research before just copying someone off Instagram this video along with loads of other simple topics wouldn’t need to be made. If people are so concerned that the ends on class 2 cables are going to come apart, twist or use a pin crimp 🤔🤔🤔🤔 Rant over! Thanks guys for the video though as it finally clear things up for people. And keep the masses Informed and up to date 👌🏻👍🏼