Eight 40K Units that Just ROSE UP in the Balance Update

[@crasterlongshanks4284]

you heard it here, 60 intercessors in every SM tournament list for the next six months, he said it himself, to everyone who zoned out during the video that's exactly what he said, it's the new meta

[@ancientmariner9460]

Press X to doubt.

[@skypiratecaptain]

dang, i only have 30 to run with my dark angels. bikes and guys

[@ponds284]

is this not what everyone has been running? cause its what im running :D

[@GrimTheProject]

The man himself, unrelenting in his quest to inform the lesser masses of 40k day by day, video by video. The sleepless news man forever

[@Paeper_Shredder]

The man is the News-Emperor of Mankind.

[@davidbrown8372]

It's his full time job with pre scheduled releases lol, still fair play though

[@Theendisnear_ok]

Move over firefighters, doctors and nurses, all hail to AI-Auspex!

[@Deanbeyers1984]

Yep! You got it! That’s his job after all! You should mention sleep because no AI commenters have ever mentioned that before!

[@nighttrain1236]

His conversation to a skull servitor eliminated his need to sleep.

[@Adalon-]

Surprised Infernus isn't here. That -1 AP is absolutely huge.

[@Ezrol1994]

I wouldn't go so far as to say huge but it was a pretty solid buff. Odds are it's cause they went up by 10 to reflect that damage increase. Will say my 10 man brick of em with vulkan is certainly not complaining tho

[@illiteratebrian1707]

@@Ezrol1994don’t forget they can be out into the librarius discipline for an extra AP, bringing them to -2 AP with +1 to wound against the oath target. Throw them in a repulsor and give the librarian the reactionary move enhancement and they can cook anything in front of them before hopping back into the vehicle to stay safe

[@JakimAkim]

Thats why you dont think its huge, you play them lol. Vulcan with 10 dudes kills most things, even without ap. @@Ezrol1994

[@crazyshak4827]

​@illiteratebrian1707 Even outside the Librarius, rolling them with a Librarian is a great idea. They have to get danger close to work with their pyreblasters, and that invuln does work. Bumping it up even further with the new detachment just makes it even funnier

[@tcmx712]

I got absolutely shish-kebabed by my son using a Salamanders army over the weekend to the point where I essentially did nothing to him and he had me done by second turn

[@eshsavage6784]

I used Guillman in a Game against GSC with the new changes. Because he can now give out 2 oaths and now with the +1 to wound he might be on Magnus’s level of busted. I was carving through every unit my opponent had and even when he killed guillman he stood right back up at the end of the phase to do it all over again.

[@GaryP336]

I'd say girlyman is at least 30 to 50 points undercoated atm

[@chaosheaven23]

Glad to hear a Primarch is looking like a Primarch on the tabletop.:P

[@ryankendall9205]

This is EXACTLY what i want to hear

[@Scissors3259]

Please everyone, keep sleeping on Heavy Intercessors

[@fruminousbandersnatch2137]

but they're uncomfortable ...

[@WillGirling]

I concur. My 50 heavy Intercessor imperial fist army I have that was so unmeta is now a little more tasty lol

[@stripeybag6977]

Reivers with those Combat Knives, ignoring Terrain with Grapple Hooks, and potentially Deep Strikes for 80 per 5 is good; even better if you get an Invictus Warsuit to cover them for a combined 205.

[@Hawko1313]

I was already running one with a Phobos lieutenant. If you’re going UM with gullliman you can oath their target and kill reliably, while also using oath on a midfield target. But, if you’re in BA using LAG then the reivers can be +2 S and +1A and do something similar without oath. They definitely have a place now imo

[@DisasterLord]

They are nasty in liberator, I was already using them to get behind terrain, they are now a lot more efficient as a bully unit

[@TheStreetad]

It's great that they have found a way to turn Reavers into an interesting utility piece. Turning off your opponents OC is potentially a very powerful trick that could even occasionally win you the game. Being better able to actually do their original conceived role of dropping down and shanking some Guard officers or weak backfield units or whatever is a bonus.

[@ondururagittandeska2004]

FINALLY A REIVER W!

[@The_Blackshield]

The entire Deathwatch rose up from the grave so I'd say that was a pretty good levelling up!

[@craigkenny37]

Big fan of all the killteams now, the only bad part is that you always pay for the full 10 models in each of the primaris killteams, even if you only put 5-9 models in them.

[@The_Blackshield]

@@craigkenny37 Like it's been since the start of 10th for everyone? Nothing unique there, but it does make Kill Teams very expensive as they're all paying for the sins of "the best" unit type, rather than being customisable.

[@craigkenny37]

@@The_Blackshield The option to take a squad of 5 and only pay for 5 would've been nice, instead you pay for 10 even if you only take the sergeant and his 2 buddies to make the minimum requirements. As I said in another Auspex Tactics video today, changing back to paying points per individual model would be preferred.

[@The_Blackshield]

@@craigkenny37 It should never have changed. Same for wargear points. Power Level was a terrible idea. It might work in AoS where everyone has a version of "pointy stick", but in 40k it doesn't.

[@hendrikmoons8218]

It is great news that some of the big tyranid monsters are getting some love. Since we do not have 'big-name deathstars/autoincludes" this may close the huge gap a bit.

[@atomgrav6861]

I’m just excited to run a full squad of intercessors (40 Boltgun shots with the new librarian buffs) Anti-everything 5+.. Sustained Hits, +1-2 strength. If it still underperforms, I’ll do the same thing but with 2 full units of hellblasters

[@poetrollem326]

Sternguard are just ridiculous now.... will be very surprised if Ultramarines aren't a top army after all of this.

[@malal6512]

"But they have to get....c-c-c-cLOSE! to do their MW's theres no way I'd EVER take them, they're a useless unit that is getting over hyped/blown by a ridiculous degree, they're not even that good." just about everyone I've heard irl from when mentioning their MW spam.

[@WeirdWizardDave]

@@malal6512 Close? Isn't their range 24"? Not sure I'd call that super close.

[@malal6512]

@@WeirdWizardDave thats what I said but apparently a friend was telling me you have to be at 12in range to do this, I dunno people are trying to downplay how busted these guys are its really annoying.

[@WeirdWizardDave]

@@malal6512 From what I can see the only thing you get within 12" is the rapid fire 1 for 1 extra shot per model, so going from 2 to 3. Its a 50% improvement in the number of shots which is not nothing, but you're still gonna get some mortals at 12"-24" with full hit and wound rerolls.

[@Drew-k1r]

Hahahahaha

[@mig1739]

This is the best channel for 40k idk how you manage to make so many videos with such good editing great work thank you!

[@bugmanzgaming9054]

It's called "Copy and paste images on Excel".

[@zeiphie]

I unironicly really wanna try out the new Reivers. The fact they seem remotely usable at all is a miracle

[@fruminousbandersnatch2137]

norn emissary and norn assimilator in assimilation squad together seems like a hellishly difficult block to remove

[@Whivious79]

Let's go !! Tyranids come back !

[@Almighty_Mage]

I hate it but I’m happy for my friend who runs tyranids

[@ProbablyFat]

love the sponsors magnet starter kit! Also glad to see Sternguard vets getting some use!

[@Cor0siv3OnYoutube]

Vertus Praetors are super fun to play with and now actually feel good to use they did work vs grey knights last week for me :)

[@jameswilkinson4632]

A squad of 4 Vertus Praetors with a Shield Captain absolutely just won me a match yesterday.

[@moobysnaxx6086]

That Intercessor Buff also effects the whole unit that has a Bolt Rifle. Unless Masterwork Bolt Rifle ruins that keyword a Captain, Lt or Ancient attached can get that unit buff as well

[@Sayquidnidly]

Something of mine ROSE UP when i saw a new vid dropped

[@derpygoose2445]

Dawg...

[@TheDream3873]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@nikolche]

hell yeah.

[@ondururagittandeska2004]

💀

[@TheOneAndOnlyJell_O]

I actually just bought a box of Vertus Praetors a week ago to slap together a Combat Patrol alongside a Squad of 5 Guard and I can't help but feel like this is an absolute win for me. I went from 460 to 475 points so the gap doesn't feel as bad now, and the bikes themselves becoming stronger is of course a great thing as well

[@professor_paladin]

15:39 BA Commander has a great video about top Blood Angels lists with 3-man Sanguinary Guard units running without leaders and doing solid work

[@Deathgaming112]

I've been testing him in the assimilation swarm and he's awesome as a anchor. Just digging in behind cover and sitting on an obj you almost can't shoot at

[@djinnz0221]

Auspex must be a time traveler to always have so many news updates out and seemingly no sleep…

[@johnnyohm4579]

No, Norns did not get scary with the update. They’re still overcosted for a t11 body

[@cadeptt]

Norn assimilator in Assimilation Swarm and basically Ctan now

[@tzarl]

Lol not even close, but they are tough. No invuln, only gets the FNP on a single objective, and most importantly no half damage means they will get chewed through by lascannons and the like with little to no issue. The c'tans' multiple defensive layering multiply together making them absurdly tough against basically everything besides mortal wound spam. The Norn Assimilators are still a bit of a stat check, if you do have enough anti-tank they will fold easily but if you don't they will be very hard to kill otherwise.

[@warrenmilton659]

Regular intercessors are scary good now for their points if you’re focus firing them. I generally included 5 for sticky objectives but they can do some legit damage now even 5 of them.

[@ZeZwede]

my problem with the Emmissary is that its essentially a 260p punching bag. sure it can soak some damage if you arent unlucky, but it wont do fuckall when it comes to threatening the enemy. compare to what other things are in similar points range, greater demons, cthans, etc.

[@vortex594]

Wonderful, yaknow if there was one unit I wanted to run more of in my giant stompy mech army, it's moderately sized mechs. I was just thinking, "boy, I sure do wish I could run less of these large Knights, I'm getting a bit sick of having Knights in my Knights army. I could really go for more Armigers."

[@fathooligan6247]

I mean, this is only a boon for you, not like they nerfed big knights, if anything, this just allows you to run more big knights because armigers are cheaper. Sure the optimum list got slightly more armiger Heavy, but the optimum list competitively speaking will pretty much always be boring

[@WeirdWizardDave]

To be fair the big knights are really hard to make fun to play against. They're so tough that shooting them half the time has no impact at all, at least if Knight armies have a decent number of little guys your opponent can actually have something to destroy each turn instead of blasting away at a big Knight for 3 turns before it finally comes down. Not saying Knights were imbalanced, just that playing against them always feels like such a slog with basically every gun in my army only wounding them on 5s or 6s.

[@timunderbakke8756]

You know, having been playing an alternate game for a while (kings of war), it’s possible they could cut the save throw entirely if they reworked the attacks and wound rolls. After all, in theory you could abstract the “did we hit it somewhere important” in the “to wound” rule. Probably would need to tone down the number of attacks and the re-roll access in general, but maybe

[@jonmcoy3466]

For my next game I'm planning the Librarius Conclave with Guilliman, 10x Sternguard (with Librarian), 10x Intercessor (with Tigurius). Wonder if even with that I can win against an T'au army!

[@TheMalthas]

You can also use a Gallant as your warlord and take 6 helverins and 6 warglaives.

[@chernobylcat1791]

I desperately want some updated rules to the Magus with a points increase. 😢

[@samronco5133]

10 man intercessor with an LT with fire discipline under gladius task force is nasty. lethal hits, re-rolls for oath of moment target and +1 to wound is a lot of shots going thru....

[@triplea657aaa]

Armigers are so cheap now that I'm running three in my sisters army... It's like having three extra castigators except they're 40 points cheaper...

[@saintmayhem9873]

I'm running three in my AdMech list. They're faster and tougher than my dunecrawlers.

[@triplea657aaa]

​@@saintmayhem9873i dont know admech, but if you have anything that strips cover, they're so incredibly good for their cost, its actually insane.

[@trueboneio]

I conveniently got two about two weeks before the sister nerf dropped so yep, that was a lucky decision 😂

[@WeirdWizardDave]

Yep, 3 big tough good range units that don't need (nor can use) any of the tiny number of MD we have left now. Its almost a no brainer, I'd expect to see this become the new Sisters Meta. Use up the full allied point allotment with Armigers and the like because anything that isn't a Battle Sister is going to be better value till GW pull their heads out of their behinds and fix the mess they just made.

[@joecassar3978]

Thought U could only ally 2 armigers?

[@marshaledrek71]

excited for intercessors & sternguard!

[@otisred7848]

If your going to bring up the armigers you should mention that the wardog executioner, huntsman and most importantly the stalker all came down

[@ravenRedwake]

Kind of a hot take here, but “sticky objectives” should be universal and the game with objectives should play like Domination from call of duty with battleline stuff having greater OC as normal and allowing you to cap in your turn rather than the next turn.

[@skypiratecaptain]

need ctf objectives

[@twilightwyrm]

I think the idea with reducing the price on Armigers has more to do with what is changing around the Knights than anything in the Index itself. A lot more armies seem to be getting their offense ramped up. Reducing the cost on the Armigers helps offset the big Knight's increasingly risky place in the meta.

[@stevefelten1197]

I always use Intercessors. Now they are better, and it makes my lists that much better.

[@Jeff-pm5zc]

It’s about 4 in the morning over where Auspex Tactics is. Okay, either he is a machine or I’m worried about his health.

[@bradleymartinez185]

Definitely golden age AI purpose built to be the harbinger of news (he's preparing us for the inevitable future)

You can set vids to upload at a certain time. I’m almost certain he gets info directly from someone at GW and makes them ahead of time with how quickly he manages to catch some of these changes

[@saintmayhem9873]

or he set it to release at this specific time.

[@skypiratecaptain]

He actually is James Workshop

[@missingone9185]

I'm so happy that the Ophydian Destroyers got included in the honorable mentions. With the Awakened Dynasty proving itself to be a good detachment choice, the Ophydians have regained the place as our secondary scorers when we were still playing with Index Necrons. The last things needed to push us to taking the Ophydians were the points decrease on them and the points increase on the Hexmarks. Ophydians now being only 5 points more expensive is a good enough justification to take a unit that can still do repeated uppy downy on its own.

[@Th3Halfdrag0n]

New player here. I just wanted to ask if its worth buying space marine codex? it seems like the rules get changed every 2 weeks so are the rule books actually out of date?

[@marechal_joukov2375]

sternguard in conclave with the anit-vehicule and monster is nasty !

[@concrescience3642]

i play against some daemons and nid players and ran 10x intercessors with greyfax giving them anti psyker 4+. with how many psykers are creeping in with the grotmas detachments, i may keep that squad around!

[@GungHoSourdough]

I’m new to WH40K and was super disappointed with how hard the nerf hammer hit the Battle Sisters and I’m hoping the new detachment improves them as they were already sort of mid and are now struggling more

[@allenfinkenaur5001]

Outrider spam in Liberator Assault seems way too fun to pass up

[@TooMuchT.V]

Checking the daily Auspex

[@ancientmariner9460]

The Reivers are finally what they should be from the very start (same for Incursors). Outriders are nice though lack upgrades and/or characters. Sternguards feel more like an elite ranged infantry - as they should. Heavy Intercessors are just what they should be in the first place. Intercessors would be ok with just getting Rapid Fire 1 or 2 but the way they're now, at least we gonna see some used.

[@lordhippoguy5658]

I love how cool the assimilator looks but without the invulnerability save it just gets melted, I got on a point and was behind cover but after being hit by 4 multi melta shots with ap-4, I was hit by 24 damage…killed him even though I was on the point and had feel no pains, but just too much damage

[@docscratch2151]

Well with the G man update i look foward to how he'll get one shot by some leader in some crazy list

[@saintmayhem9873]

These armiger points changes combined with the Haloscreed Battle Clade for AdMech makes the armigers really really tasty to ally in.

[@edwadloozley5309]

I played against Deathguard yesterday, and I really felt a point disparity between loyalist marines and death guard. Guilliman is 50 points more than Mortarion now

[@eddelgado785]

Guilliman is a beast, but definitely over costed compared to some of the daemon primarchs when comparing toughness and wounds imo

[@agalves]

Are the combi weapons better on sternguard now?

[@AgoristDryad]

How can you get 11 armigers/helverins? Rule of three would dictate 9 max if moirax are included. Am I missing something?

[@concrescience3642]

they are battleline so 6x each

[@Nortonius_]

Magnet Baron vs Baron of Dice. Mortal Kombat!

[@im2randomghgh]

How do you figure that praetors are less tanky than other custodes? 3 bikes has the same wounds as five custodes on foot, costs the same, and is T7

[@TheJase8566]

Marines becoming even more OP for the points

[@Meuduso1]

Not gonna lie, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sernguard get points increases next patch because they seem undercosted even after the point increase for the damage potential they have now. Use then while you can lads

[@bianchin20]

I tried two units of six Sanguinary Guard last time I played, unfortunately they're still pretty underwhelming. They have a generally weak unit ability where they can be easily killed outside of melee and they generally aren't worth the points still. For the same points costs, multiple small units of Assault Intercessors seem better.

[@adamcarey7712]

No scions? They are terrifying now.

[@j.k.prufrock5605]

Again, thanks to auspex for putting out such easily digestible 40K news in such a timely manner. It would be hard to impossible keeping up without you.

[@joeyn3590]

For me the sanguinary guard buff isn't anything because scouts went up by 5 points so it evened out 😂

[@im2randomghgh]

Mentioning divergent chapters for outriders, without mentioning that Black Templars can make them S6 AP -2 sustained and lethal on 5s on the charge? Sounds like heresy

[@anthonyd55]

Evening chaps so I’m new to warhammer. Do we download all these new bonuses to my space marine or how does this work???

[@nikolaibelinski957]

I thought they just dropped Guilliman to 285 he’s back up to 345 again in 2 weeks ?

[@squashbanana5146]

NEW Outriders in NEW Company of Hunters is making Ravenwing my favorite way to play dark angels

[@willhull9839]

Absolutely love the Sternguard in the lib detachment with Gilman. Waiting for them to nurf hammer it. Having fun till they do

[@omicdog]

I think outriders in vanguard look really good. They can sabotage objectives!

[@carloago8305]

Stop saying IK now can field only one big knight and 11 armigers. The army isn’t designed to play only around armigers. Winning games is important for sure, but going off with a great strategy and having fun is more important.

[@CassioTheWiser]

Intercessors could've used a small buff especially as a battleline unit but 2 shots is pretty insane, something like 1A with +1 to hit might be better instead of 2A

[@chrisg8321]

They didn't need anything... 80pts remember

[@jesta7837]

literally the stupidest buff. Intercessor bolt rifle is now superior to storm bolter in every single way. And all of this while the tact squad is still just as useless as ever.

[@frostedbutts4340]

@@jesta7837 Don't worry, we have a solution coming to the tactical squad problem very soon.

[@JimH.]

@@jesta7837 Tactial Squad is 100% going away in 11th so I wouldn't worry about it.

[@jesta7837]

​@@JimH. They're bound to go sooner or later. But the audacity of them to still sell that kit when they're actively burying them.

[@Wychfyre_]

No love for purifiers and/or Crowe? Rerolling all misses is biiiig

[@JIMMYBOE1]

G man can use oath x2 AND -1 on a strat

[@Khobai]

sternguard still arnt better at shooting than normal intercessors unless they get within 12" for the extra shot.

[@golddust966]

Is their a this channel but for aos. I play both and I need this level of depth for the other game

[@chrisporter8120]

Games workshop "Hmm, what's not selling well? I wonder how we could make these poorly selling models sell better? Hmmmmm.......I wonder......"

[@KaratePath]

Has anyone ever seen the guy ?

[@Moogprodigy-fe8nm]

First word in the title is "Eight" and the only Khorne unit is an honorable mention... World eater players are seething as per usual

[@kevlonk]

Next, the units that got worse. *Astra Militarum and Sisters of Battle weeping intensifies*

[@frostedbutts4340]

Guard will have a nice new codex soon. Sisters can keep crying lmao

[@nedchirgwin2803]

Lets be honest, the majority of the buffs were justified for guard, with the exception of the Cadians. RIP Lord Solar though. Lets hope that Baneblades become usable in the codex. Sisters on the other hand...

[@ForTehNguyen]

norns are still bad for the points. One of the biggest problems with norns is maleceptors are 170

[@darkspire6710]

They serve different purposes imo. I like to take an emissary and set it on an objective. Then, I send my entire army to the objective on the other side of the map. My opponent has to choose to either deal with the norn, dragging their high damage firepower away from the main force because there's no way anything other than big anti-tank is touching it, or ignore it and give me free points. The OC makes that viable, while the maleceptor can be locked up with a unit or two of standard space marines while they take the objective with their higher OC.

[@nochillarickroller]

Better yet, send both of them together onto the center objective in a formation I call "The Brick". 30W at T11 with 4++, 16 of which have 5+++ or all 30 if you're playing invasion fleet. And that aura from the maleceptor ensures any melee or super close shooting is gonna be that much worse.

Norn is the ultimate distraction Carnifex

[@AgoristDryad]

Wanna talk about overcosted bugs, try running a hierophant. 😅

[@zacharymorris6119]

Auspex, you animal.

[@Klierowski]

God, there was like 5 min ads in a 20 min video, you're getting creazy dude.

[@RANDOM_DUD-qj3jd]

So many imperial units

[@DPWEWHD]

For a video about big wins during this Grotmas, you really downplayed the Deathwatch here. They were a joke detachment in Agents, pitifully 4 datasheets total, and basically scrapped. Now they’re full-fledged and have potential. Their terminators and some kill teams are fantastic

[@IamElChapo]

As if Tyranids needed a buff 🙄 We're starting to see a return to 8th edition / early 9th edition where Space Marines will be having cheaper units that do more over their CSM counter parts that cost more.

[@ysbrann3059]

what ? Tyranid were in a horrible place recently. and Space marine didn t got point buff they got datasheet buff which is the opposite of what you are saying

[@IamElChapo]

@ysbrann3059 Are you joking? Tyranids are probably the strongest faction in game right now. Go back and read my original comment. I didn't mention anything about a points drop. A five man squad of CSM - 90 points. A five man intercessors squad - 85 points. Paying less for a unit that ultimately does more.

[@ysbrann3059]

@IamElChapo Tyranids are not even top 5 with their 51% win rate. Legionary are one of the Best Infantery in the game. they still have a lot for them over intercessor even after last balance update.

[@arn1345]

@@IamElChapo CSM got that rerolls to wound on obj, which is very good considering they get meaningful special weapons too.

[@DrazekIronwing]

After GW saying they were going to do something to 'fix' codex space marines I felt a little underwhelmed with the changes... - essentially if you aren't ultramarines, you got a giant nothingburger. most of the changes also effected the divergent chapters, so they're all moot. literally the only thing that counts is the +1 wound on the oath target for codex chapters... which isn't all that much of a change and won't make any difference compared to the divergent chapter's unique units imo. playing blood angels LAG without BA specific units and taking advantage of the +1 wound could be pretty funny though.

[@clonebro8746]

[@wasifmoramen]

warhammer news to sleep to

[@jeremiahattento]

Honestly, I expect the Armigers to revert to the previous DP values. They’re really good even before their DP values were reduced. Intercessors getting that double-shot ability when not splitting fire is pretty good. In most of the games I’ve seen them, they barely budge and are always kept on the defensive. Their new ability makes them a wee bit more valuable, especially in defense.

[@reverenddmo8944]

Look, GW, I know you don't care because your average Ork player is in it for laughs and isn't interested in chasing metas to wring every last point for an edge so you don't feel like you need to so anything, but this has gone on for decades now... make them pretty powerful out of the gate, then gradually dial them down to mediocrity... Find a new tune for da Boyz already, GW... before the heat-death of the universe would be nice.

[@Backstabmacro]

I shall continue to be annoyed that Big Knights don’t benefit from Bondsman.

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...😮

[@Robertsmith-un5cu]

This is why I quit this shit. Always a see saw back and forth of your army and units being good then being overpriced. Over and over. Always a fucking stupid game that GW plays.

[@Robertsmith-un5cu]

Time for the try hards to go drop a bunch of money on intercessors to chase meta. Good little pay pigs. Squeal!!!

[@shadowywarrior]

I very much diagree with guilliman. If i see someone bringing guilliman, i've already won. the reason being is that while he has excellant buffing abilities, WHEN HE COSTS SO MUCH, you can't optimize your list to make use of those double oath. I also have to further remind you that his double oath is still conditional.

[@magumble6107]

Thing to note is that the last MFM/Dataslate dindt consider grotmas detachments. So things like Silent king and DDA being very good in the new cron detachment will get their point hike in the next MFM.

[@SoulCrusherEx]

People will spam Sternguard now... Making them useless in the next update.... Shame I did field them 2 balance patches earlier

[@captainweekend5276]

I feel like Guilliman's point hike was too severe for him to really be competitive, him going up 30 in tandem with the lion was fine, he's absolutely still worth it at 315, but people seem to say he went up in points because of double oath which is silly because he already could double oath, you'd always take it, so really you're paying 30 points for the captain ability which I'm not sure is actually worthwhile. I also have a strong feeling a lot of people are playing "double oath" wrong and just oathing two targets and playing them as being oathed at the same time, whereas you only get your second oath target if you've already destroyed the first. I get a feeling people are doing an either/or and applying it as either "whichever I shoot first is the oath target, and the other is the master of battle target". When played properly it's pretty easy to counter play, and I feel like a lot of people are going to find the big blueberry to not live up to the hype at 345. I still get the feeling that because of the weird wording around the new oath of moment divergent chapters have still made out more powerful than codex marines, they may not get to use their special units, but now they have the option of using their special detachments with the new oath, and benefit from all the buffs to codex marine units. Also I feel like you've got to let it go with the deathshroud, you were just wrong about them after being so certain they're undercosted. I've seen you multiple times talk and comment about 18 deathshroud despite no one taking that many to any notable success. The most people generally seem to take is 9 which is half the maximum, a good indicator that they're worth using but not so cheap that you can just max out on them comfortably. They're costed similar to DWK which is about right, and DWK are taken in around the same amount, 50% of total allowed.

[@ordohereticus5530]

The Lion was already overcosted for what he did. Sad times indeed.

[@psyclonis5150]

They need to make the Lion (the best duelist primarch) a better update. His sweep attack should be 2 dmg. -1 to hit needs to be brought back. Return his forest walk. Make it like the Yncarne. When a unit dies, he can pop up where that unit died. Turn 1 deep strike was only basic at best.

[@knuckl6972]

He does have a 2 damage sweep now you goofball

[@blackvalordragoon]

How does guillimans double oath help Sternguard with mortal wounds if anti and dev need unmodified rolls?