Elden Ring Lore | The Blood Star

Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/hellofresh_se6165437, use my code SMOUGHFREE, and receive one free breakfast item per box while subscription is active.
The Blood Star is possibly one of the most mysterious pieces of lore in all of Elden Ring, yet is tantalizing all the same. In this lore video we explain the nature of the Blood Star, what it is, how it interacts with the Lands Between and its relationship to the Formless Mother. This also comes at in interesting time given the Blood Star's potential connection to Messmer and the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC.
Editor: Creators Studio - creatorsstudio.co.uk/
Intro: 0:00
Hellofresh: 1:40
What is the Blood Star?: 2:57
The Guilty and Alberich: 21:53
The Formless Mother: 40:36
Are They The Same?: 51:39
Commission Thumbnail art by S-Mrry: / bloodexer
Shout out to Lokey for their insights and translations.
Lokey's Abyssal Archive: www.abyssalarchive.com/
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REFERENCES
Zullie's Alberich Video: • Elden Ring - The risks...
Shout out to commentor monsieurdorgat6864 for pointing out Heretical Rise and the Red Glintstone.
Shout out to my Editor David for the Ensha Theory
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Soundtrack is Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Sekiro, King's Field and Elden Ring
I do not own the rights to Elden Ring, all rights to FromSoftware
#eldenring #shadowoftheerdtree #ad

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/hellofresh_se6165437, use my code SMOUGHFREE, and receive one free breakfast item per box while subscription is active.

[@pohgii]

so be it

[@xaviermoreau-raymond9269]

Weird thought here but do you think criminals are crucified as a way to keep them out of the ground so they cannot be re-absorbed into the Erdtrees roots

[@dgalloway107]

Forgive me, but i believe that idea of the Primeval Current simplifies it too much, and while Cosmos is one of the names that can be included in it, i think Causality and the One Great all tie in here. If one looks into the past, they find less and less complexity, go far enough back, and you will find only One. One mass, One time, One energy, One thing. The only thing. I think personally that the Primeval Current refers to the stream of noticeable changes in the stars and shifts in causality that allow for one to trace the path of matter all the way back to the One Great, aka whatever existed before the big bang. We have an aggregation of this data in our world, or as close as we can seem to get, which is known as the map of the cosmic microwave background(CMB). I believe this path to knowledge is what is called in game, the Primeval Current.

[@dgalloway107]

If an ancient astrologer, obsessed with visually seeing the stars in the night sky, were blinded, they would seek after a star that maybe they couldn't even see in their mind, but they knew, they had FAITH, that it was there, and it was.

[@titaniumteddybear]

I'm not a fan of adverts. But I am a fan of content creators getting enough money to keep creating fascinating videos like this one. With that in mind I'm glad to see you've got sponsorships now.

[@Awoken0]

I know what I'm falling asleep to tonight.

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks very much! Hope you enjoy!

[@firstnamelastname4867]

😂😂 same here

[@DaemonVok]

The sounds of children crying on repeat? Same.

[@shawnbuonarosa3188]

Hey...isn't that saying it's boring?

[@Awoken0]

@@shawnbuonarosa3188 nope. Many people listen to long lore videos like this to fall asleep to.

[@lukasgraesslin]

I think I said it already on Zullie's video: I find that whole concept of glintstone slowly replacing one's brain incredibly creepy and unsettling.

[@kennethg9277]

Between cat videos slowly replacing one's brain and glintstone slowly replacing one's brain i can't decide which is worse

[@Darfail]

Must be cool enough to do it though since these guys be crystallizin

[@willardtk2979]

Reminds me a little of the lyrics for We Appreciate Power: And if you long to never die Baby, plug in, upload your mind Come on, you're not even alive If you're not backed up on a drive That glintstone SSD and it's primeval current read/write speed must be killer.

[@sidewaysfcs0718]

Ultimately, Azure and Lusat were starting to become like the Crystallians, who are inorganic, but LIVING beings made of Glintstone.

[@andyghkfilm2287]

@@Darfail I think for a while it must give you a unique perspective or insight on magic, but only in exchange for your human perspective. That’s why the only living crystal people we see are basically absent-mentally, they’re actually far, far away.

[@Phanthion]

I believe Heretical Rise is Sellen's former abode. During the fight against or alongside Jerren in Sellen's questline, she'll use Founding Rain of Stars, the sorcery you find in Heretical Rise, and is the only magic user you can encounter who uses this spell. It also ties into her study of the Primeval Current, and her being branded a heretic to the Academy of Raya Lucaria who have since sealed Heretical Rise.

[@wpb5876]

Good catch as well!

[@crilleedara]

Yes indeed, a very good catch!!

[@bearful]

errant sorcerer wilhelm can use it as well no?

[@Phanthion]

I don't think so, no. I believe he uses Stars of Ruin instead@@bearful

[@Reliken]

Sellen is definitely sold as a new/young sorcerer, though. She was a peer of Thops! That's too young to have been at the heretic's rise.

[@Archer-1453]

Finally someone does a cool synopsis of the Blood Star without explicitly stating it’s just another aspect of the Mother of Truth

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks bud - yeh after looking into it, I basically couldn't help but notice how many differences they have!

[@seanmitchell7856]

@@SmoughTown while I agree with them being distinct,I would love your thoughts on the bloodflame & potential connections. The worshippers of the bloodstar & fell god stay together - even combining holy symbols.

[@Youshallbeeatenbyme]

@@thelegendofpit They could be connected in the same way that the Elden Beast is connected to the Greater Will. Whilst distinctly different in form, one is a direct avatar of the outer being/star. Almost all sects have a flame/flame adjacent power.

[@talkingmudcrab718]

​@@SmoughTownI'm interested to find out in the DLC how the Formless Mother ties in with Miquella. Remember how Mohg appears thru a pool of blood coming from Miquella's hand? Is this a power of Mohg? Or does it stem from Miquella? Or is the Formless Mother using Miquella? Or vice versa? I have so many questions! I definitely agree with you in that the Formless Mother probably has nothing to do with the Blood Star. At most I could maybe see the "Blood Star" being some outer dimension where the Formless Mother hails from...

[@Kn1ghtborne]

They're very similar but they have a lot of specific details to tell them apart

[@Nemo12417]

A note on red glintstone: the Gelmir staff, intended for magma sorceries, is also set with red glintstone and also scales with faith. It's also worth noting that the Academy despises death sorcery for relying on faith, same as Aberrant Sorcerery.

[@daniell1483]

Part of me wonders if the Primeval Current isn't just the name that characters give to their galaxy. Instead of the Milky Way, it is the Primeval Current.

[@gatchu2246]

I think it's something similar. It may not be their galaxy, but I do believe that it's a cluster of stars and other celestial bodies, that form some type of trail or current. The only reason I'd consider it to not be their own galaxy would be that study of the moons seems to be at odds with those who study the primeval current

[@elleofmusic]

@@gatchu2246 But that actually makes sense, as the Carians were the ones who made the study of the Primeval Current a taboo within the academy.

[@fastenough3287]

yes! I've thought the same thing based on how they both have liquid-based names. Like if the Primeval Current is as big in their sky as the Milky Way is in ours, it explains how different sorcerers can have such different views while looking at it. Not just something you can point a telescope at and see in full, but so big that you have to look at bits at a time, never getting a full picture.

[@nebky]

​@@fastenough3287further to this, the Japanese name for the Milky Way translates to "Heavenly River".

[@Mattin_Satteo]

I think that too, but remembering that the elden beast came from space like a fucking David Bowie song, I also think it's more complex than that... Probably we shouldn't think of stars as... Well: stars. They are not either sentient i think, but it's like if they are an entity somewhere in between. The thing i can't move on about stars is water... We know how in from software games water is used with a Shinto style meaning to it. Elden Ring is not different in thos, since water plays a huge part in everything that both is cosmic, or uses the power of stars and moons to create a manifestation of a memory. I'll explain myself: The Elden Beast is fought by us in an infinite mirror of water, also it is deep as fuck since she can dive and emerge like feom the ocean, and it seems that we're rhe one who phisicaly can't interact with it as if it's "normal" water. Loretta left a memory of herself to protect Carian manor, since she left, and we fight her memory in a place covered in water. To keep intact the honour of Rennala as the great witch she once was, Ranni evocated rhe memory she has of her mother wen she was younger, and we have the second phase of Rennala in another infinite lake. Connect that with the words used to descrive space, moons and stars (like a sea of stars, primeval current, irl we also have moon seas for example) and that every magical power comes from stars (being it the power if glimstone, literal space crystals, or the power of miracles, granted by the Elden Ring aka Elden Beast aka a fallen star) and I feel like the primeval current may in fact be the galaxy but is also in some way a dimension linked to the devine, maybe (and that's just my theory) it's the trace that the Greater Will left on it's path while she was leaving the lands in between, since we know that she left a long, long time ago.

[@hades_head_empty]

you mentioning the crone made me realize something i'm surprised i didn't notice before. ranni, renala, and the snowy crone are a reference to hecate. she is the goddess of magic in greek mythology, and is known as the triple goddess because she has three forms: the maiden, the mother, and the crone. like its literally perfect, they're all extremely powerful practitioners of magic. i love noticing where fromsoft has drawn on real world mythology for their lore

[@PickledTyrant]

Good shit my dude!!

[@deadmemes719]

Crazy awesome pull

[@Reliken]

Two other super fun facts on this point: (1) Hecate is also associated with THE MOON, specifically its three phases: the waxing moon represents the Maiden, the full moon represents the Mother, and the waning moon represents the Crone. A full cycle of life and death. (2) there are ***three moons*** in Elden Ring, not just three moon phases. Rennala's full moon, Ranni's Darkmoon, and the Black Moon of Nokstella, now lost (destroyed?), just like the Snowy Crone.

[@coolfish420]

It's interesting that Blood Thorn magic and the Frenzied Flame both dwell in people who have lost their sight, only to be guided to respective lights. It sounds like the Blood Star has to be sought out, while the Frenzied Flame kindles in the "back of the eyes", as Hyetta puts it. Great video!

[@wolfiemuse]

To my interpretation I interpret the 3F reaching out to you appearing as a distant light when you close your eyes; something that catches your attention and points you in a direction and calls to you, not unlike Cthulhu esque suggestiveness to your mind

[@maonnaise2959]

The Blood Star might also be referenced in the Great Stars weapon description which reads, "Huge bludgeon with three stars at the striking end. Though primarily a striking weapon, the stars' spikes cause blood loss. A blood-stained star is an ill omen, a fact not lost upon those against whom this weapon is brought to bear. Landing attacks slightly restores HP." This could have some interesting implications, either way great video like always.

[@landansmock3060]

Good catch!

[@kaztheunbreakable]

Bloodstar, Elden Stars, Fallen Stars, Dark Moon, Black Moon, the regular moon seemingly having a great rune design on it, the Celestial Bodies of ER is certainly topic worthy of its own video

[@allengordon6929]

Elden Ring's celestial body is stars, as bloodborne's was the moon and Dark Souls had the sun

[@kaztheunbreakable]

theres a FAKE smougtown DELETING the REAL smoughtowns comments on his own channel!! lmao

[@Jaden-Ring]

I wonder if the blood star was discovered before lusat and azur began looking more into the primeval current and it's darker nature is the reason the carians and academy aren't as eager to delve into the stars more in depth like azur, lusat, and later sellen would be.

[@thenewplantationisinyourmind]

It depends on whether Azur and Lusat were around and doing sorcery before Marika and Godfrey defeated the Fire Giants and the Golden Order and started blinding criminals and sending them into the mountains. I think it was discovered before, because I don't think that the Raya Lucaria Academy was established until after the founding of the Golden Order which brought about proper mages as opposed to the Astrologers before them, who also dwelled in the mountains peacefully alongside the Fire Giants, after the destruction of the Fire Giants I think they migrated to Lake of Lurnia. Where eventually Azur and Lusat would be booted from the academy for their studies of the Primeval Current.

[@agm5424]

The Blood Star may be a reference to a entity in the Chthulhu mythos created by Clark Ashton Smith called Yamil Zacra otherwise known as the Infernal Star, a star that is said to be the source of most evils and the desire for suffering in people throughout the universe.

[@SmoughTown]

A great shout tbh

[@thecommentpolice8115]

@@jeffcarroll1990shock oh shut up

[@VictorIV0310]

@@jeffcarroll1990shockBalam Industries sponsored field trip

[@Kidcrowley]

@@jeffcarroll1990shockwho gives a shit, dude was alive in the 1800s racism was pop culture and he was kinda insane. But he was fucking great at writing lol.

[@lucafunder1304]

@@jeffcarroll1990shockDark souls and especially bloodborne and Elden Ring are peak Lovecraftian if you like it or not. He was the one that established the concept of outer gods and was one of the main inspirations for Miyazaki and GRRM/GOT by their own words

[@RossAshmore]

Seeing the influence of the Blood Star throughout the mountaintop of the giants gave me an eerie feeling that I've not been able to shake since, whenever I make my way through the mountains. Cheers for making a video on the subject Geoff!

[@SmoughTown]

Agree Ross - you can defo feel the influence of it here!

[@alexterieur8813]

currently playing the game and im there !

[@TRACTOOOOOOOOOR]

I wonder if we'll find a connection with Mesmer perhaps in the DLC since he also summons thorns.

[@sprooss7073]

@@TRACTOOOOOOOOORMesmer is blind in one eye. That and the fact that he is heretical means we could well find a connection.

[@Gyokosz]

Mogh is also blind in one eye, one of his horns are turned backwards and grew right into his left eye. Come on the blood star is just the formless mother and she is amused by both the mogh way and thorn sorcery. the truth of goldmasks is that sorceries and incantations are the same thing. I reckon Glintstone is a nameless outer god as well or just generally the flesh of outer gods , glintstone is blue, and red glintstone is well red. Its the same thing. maybe the elden beast is made of yellow glintstone.@@sprooss7073

[@mdcandronic]

I think the guilty might have their eyes gouged not to make them into blood star worshipers but because grace is found in the eyes and removing them basically condemns them to live outside the Order.

[@Docoloco123]

You should look into another notable heretical sorcerer: Necromancer Garris. The sage of Sage's cave

[@tkri]

What really puzzles me is why both the Blood Star and the Formless Mother have so many unexplained ties to fire. Blood Star - The description of the red thorn round shield specifically states that the “ancient thorn design” boosts fire negation, and the guilty thorn sorcerers have so many attacks that produce fire with their staves. These attacks could just be things that they’ve learned from their fire monk masters, but it’s always struck me as more than coincidence that these groups work so closely together. Formless Mother - Mohg’s blood is distinctly said to have erupted in flame during contact with the Formless Mother, and nearly all Blood incantations (and Rivers of Blood) deal some amount of fire damage. “Bloodflame” is frequently referenced, but we don’t really get a description of what it is or if it relates to other kinds of fire, like Blackflame or Ghostflame, which we know much more about. It may be that there is something inherent to blood that attracts flame, regardless of either the Blood Star or the Formless Mother. Morgott seems to have no real connection to either entity (other than perhaps sharing Mohg’s blood), but he/his sword still produces fire from the “Cursed-Blood Slice” skill. I feel like there’s so much more we just don’t know about how fire relates to it all

[@williamsova9313]

I kinda get the feeling that a lot of elder entities are, for the most part, tied to an order/chaos dichotomy, with most of them trying to bring everything back together again in their own way

[@andyghkfilm2287]

Maybe it’s just that in an order where the center of the cosmology is a Tree, any source of fire is vaguely heretical?

[@ajki9833]

An hour of content on the Blood Star? Madness

[@behurastudio]

Blood Star is a cool entity, also you know it’s fascinating when i have the urge to look back at all the thorn/blood equipment in the game to see if there are more relations present, like Elemer’s set and shield etc Awesome job as always ST

[@SmoughTown]

Agreed really enjoyed researching this subject! Glad you enjoyed and appreciate the kind words

[@redglintstonescholar7605]

Don’t forget too look for items with rose motifs in general. What are the thorns of sin but the stem of the Bloodrose. Hoslow gear is also looked at different once you remember theirs is a tale told in blood

[@Aiden-iy9du]

Elemer and Messmer huh

[@kyledavis9860]

The shield of the guilty mentions the eyes are “crushed by briars of sin” an interesting distinction.

[@ChocolatePancakeMan]

36:30 It’s interesting that it’s a Primeval sorcery, since it is always described as something terrifying. One very common literary theme is that when someone sees something terrifying or horrific, they are driven to blind themselves, either as punishment for seeing it or a preventative measure to avoid seeing it again. If the early astrologers had already outlawed looking into the darkness between the stars, then the astrologer of the heretical rise could have done it for both reasons; and in blindness he found the Blood Star.

[@ElMasCaporo99]

When mogh makes his special attack, the three circles he makes around you are made of thorns and one of his eyes is blinded

[@KaedNinescarred]

This is good

[@Zach-qo1on]

still think they are 2 different beings

[@ElMasCaporo99]

@@Zach-qo1on maybe. Hope the DLC enlighten us all.

[@SmoughTown]

Good shout

[@mr.brightside2665]

​@@Zach-qo1on only one God can rule over a single concept. The Formless Mother and Blood star are the same thing as Ra and the actual Sun. Think about it Mohg was persecuted wrongfully by the Golden Order for having Omen blood and the star appears to criminals making the half blind and wrongfully persecuted Mohg a perfect Lord of Blood

[@Kxks-uu2xn]

I once saw a theory that said that the blood thorn sorceries derive from the formless mothers period blood and I’ve never forgotten that since.

[@fractale4322]

What and the thorns are like blood clots? Lovely

[@lunebadru5997]

That... actually would be interesting if true

[@hamishbaro8026]

So the outer God has a menstrual cycle?

[@imperialsunstrider7873]

This just makes me think even more of Bloodborne when talking about The Outer Gods.

[@Mattin_Satteo]

This would be so Bloodborny

[@Randomthew]

Id love if you created your own fictional universe and described the lore of it in this same format

[@SmoughTown]

Hahaha thanks bud - always been a dream of mine tbh

[@Randomthew]

​@@SmoughTownno prob, thanks for putting in the effort into making these great videos. You could make it a little side project, spend like three hours on making a world and then make a 20 minute video on it. If it doesn't get a ton of views, oh well! It was just for fun and I know I and hundreds others would enjoy it at least.

[@Hayden-qj1lo]

That would actually be dope, and I have faith that he could do it in a wonderful manner!

[@Randomthew]

@@Hayden-qj1lo agreed!!

[@ThankyouJword]

Maybe to those with eyes it appears as the formless mother(formless) but in the main land of the lands between and to those who lose their site she is revealed as the blood star(formed) but only seen in the shadows... maybe

[@pandamygdala]

As a thorn sorcerer - I approve of this video.🎉 Thank you for the hard work!

[@SmoughTown]

Enjoy it my friend!

[@candideoptimism8775]

finally a video on one of the most esoteric concepts in the game!! covering every bit man and we’re loving every second of it

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks dude - was really excited to dig into this obscure part of the lore

[@tevenpowell8023]

I literally just finished your complete lore series this morning. What terrific timing!

[@SmoughTown]

Awesome timing bud! Enjoy it my friend

[@h4nkh4tchk1ns9]

Smough, i havent even finished the video yet, but good job and keep going. You are making so many others happy with these videos.

[@SmoughTown]

Really appreciate that my friend. Your support means the world to

[@KingFlameHawk]

I've really like the Blood Star. If I remember, it was actually a short about it that I randomly came across that got me interested in Elden ring in the first place.

[@SmoughTown]

Vaati did an amazing one on it

[@AllCloudsAreBunnies]

Alberich just wants blood for the blood god, as we all do.

[@TheEveryDayC]

I think it quite the opposite with regards to the iconography of thorns being used in the imagery of the prelates and the giants, and extending further still to the briar sorceries themselves. Given the sorceries were discovered by those whose eyes were already pierced by thorns, the iconography is not reflective of the blood star, but rather, the blood star sorceries are reflections of the punishment given to those seen as guilty of great crimes, and that the usage to impale the giants is a further usage of the same original punishment. In the same way a sorcerer casting comet manifests a comet through the use of blue glintstones and the knowledge therein, an aberrant sorcerer manifests thorns through the use of red glintstones, and the faith and passion associated with it. Thorns used to punish the guilty, that they might know the pain of their actions, crucifixion and impalement used to punish further, that they might know the sacrifices of their god, Marika.

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh really like this take tbh

[@annaclarallb]

I just noticed that Albeitch’s cloak has a cut in it in the shape of hollow parts in some of the graves across the Lands Between

[@zeppie_]

Very interesting video! One comment I have on the nature of thorns is that it is also used to frame Marika as heretical by Radagon. He uses thorns to block the way to inside the Erdtree, implying that the one inside (Marika) is a heretic. This is further substantiated by how heretics are crucified on something that resembles Marika’s own rune. I would also like to note the Giant’s flame’s connection with thorns. While Radagon’s thorns only disappear when the tarnished gains access to the rune of death, it’s actually the Giant’s flame that burns the thorns away (the thorns were burning, but they were still undying). The fire monks are similarly also always paired with the thorn sorcerers. As the Giant’s flame could burn thorns, perhaps the fire monks’ purpose was to keep the followers of the Blood Star in check, suppressing any chance of a revolt. Another interesting thing is the ways in which blindness interacts with Outer Gods in Elden Ring. Hyetta, for example, is guided by her the Flame of Chaos by way of blindness (and the use of eyes). Brother Corryn similarly also wears a blindfold. Lusat’z and Azur’s eyes have been consumed by their glintstone growths, perhaps to make their connection to the primeval current more potent.

[@nevish2284]

I believe the Blood Star is the vassal or avatar of the Formless Mother. Like the Elden Beast being the vassal of Greater Will. I think every outer god has a vassal or avatar

[@joshuaoram7439]

I agree. Blood Star is to Formless Mother what Golden Star is to Greater Will.

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh could defo buy that

[@gavyncarter9461]

When you mentioned the taunters tounge theory, the first thing that came up was illyn Paine from asoiaf.

[@SmoughTown]

trueeee

[@errantvice7335]

I like the thematics of The Blood Star and Mother of Truth, it (or them) along with the gloam eyed queen give me heavy Velka vibes, and she was and remains a very interesting part of souls lore. I wonder how this’ll compound (or get even more confusing) in the DLC content

[@thomasbriscoe2357]

Velka is just ashen hollows cope and almost all the connections people make about her are unfounded...

[@RKGrizz]

I was one of the first to point out the briar spell being held by Mesmer in the trailer and everyone told me it was Giants Flame or Blood Flame or Dragon Communion. I think the black tendrils within the flame in Mesmer's hand are indisputable proof that he is the exile mentioned in the item descriptions.

[@ianwilliams2632]

I've complained a lot about ER's emotional impact vs. Souls, but without a doubt the best thing about ER is the ridiculously long podcast-tier videos of Smoughtown that are always nicely speculative and calming. I like how nondogmatic you are. A good listen while playing other games lol

[@SmoughTown]

Appreciate that my friend - so happy my videos are of value to you!

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

FINALLY A VIDEO ON THE BLOOD STAR!!!! the weapon i used throughout most of my first playthrough

[@SmoughTown]

That must have been an interesting first play through

[@DozleZabi]

What weapon?

[@gatchu2246]

Are you thinking of the great stars? The big hammer that inflicts bleed

[@literallynomadic78]

I think you mean Great Stars or Morning Star

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

yes, i think the weapoin was made to represent the concept/god@@SmoughTown

[@ShupperDupper]

in love with the blood star and what it means for this world we explore.

[@evanmcdonald9134]

Something I just thought of regarding the large thorns piercing the giants: The spot in their chest in which they are pierced by the thorn is where they would have an eye if they were to be the fire giant with the fel god. Maybe all fire giants had some extent of the fel god in them and the golden order pierced their eyes, or maybe this was done so that the fel god could not manifest itself in any of them. I haven’t thought a whole lot about this, but this connection does seem interesting to explore more

[@tristank8076]

I'm so excited I've been waiting for this since you started teasing it! Can't wait to watch your shadow of the Erdtree, also as far as lore stuff have you considered baldurs gate lore? I've been finding it fascinating myself lately.

[@SmoughTown]

Cheers bud! Hope it was worth the wait ! I have thought of doing BG3 but I am honestly unsure where I would start

[@TheGreatMilksteak]

​@@SmoughTownstart from the top? Maybe gods?

[@blainhunter4696]

baldurs gate lore is just forgotten realms lore from dnd, they’re the same canon, there’s thousands of hours of content on the lore

[@EVeljko]

It occurs to me now how the Formless Mother and the Blood Star are very different entities. even opposing in some way. Going by what little info we have: the formless mother is an outer god. Most outer gods are outer because they are connected to the concept of death in some way. I understood this as meaning that the Formless Mother's domain is death through wounds and bloodloss. Violent, involuntary deaths, basically. Whereas sacrificial deaths, if performed for ritualistic and religious purposes, are usually voluntary and as painless as possible. Moreover, it's said that the Blood Star wants the sacrificial spilling of blood, but nowhere does it say that it requires death. Looking at the lore through that lens we can see that the Blood Star would very much align itself with Marika over the Formless Mother. Which it did. If it's followers can give blood sacrifices over and over again without dying, that would be extremely beneficial for it. And we can see that it's followers are aligned with Marika, with both Alberich serving the roundtable and the thorn sorcerers watching over the giants flame. Also, as far as I've understood it, it's sorceries were proclaimed heretical by Raya Lucaria, but not by Marika's order. Not sure where i'm going with this, it's just some interesting thoughts i had while watching the video.

[@TheUltraBeast1]

I always love when armor sets give boosts to certain spells and abilities like the red glintstone armor set. I always thought the fire prelate helm should boost fire giant incantations but for some reason it doesn't.

[@jamesnorman9160]

It's nice that we've got a nearly hour long video based around something that's barely mentioned with the in-game lore. But looking at the overall themes - the Blood Star itself, the Primeval Current and Glintstone in general - we can see that old adage that messing with things you don't understand fully can be dangerous.

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

I've long had a theory that stars are the servants of the Outer Gods. The Falling Star Beasts/Astel/the Elden Beast, etc all seem to serve other worldly purposes as emissaries but aren't themselves the supreme beings they serve (I know we've discussed them to be more like kami than supreme beings, but alas). Perhaps the Blood Star is akin to the Formless Mother as the Elden Beast is to the Greater Will? I think you're getting too hung up on the literal way these beings are observed. Both the Formless Mother and the Blood Star can't be interacted with under normal circumstances. Normal people can't see or interact with them. Only those with accursed blood can interact with the Formless mother, and only those who are blind can see and interact with the Blood Star. Both beings have a pre-requiste to being seen/communed with.

[@Idea_of_Lustre]

4:54 Another point worthy of note is the description for the Graven Mass Talisman: "A talisman depicting the first school of graven mages - a nightmare that would continue to haunt the academy. Greatly raises potency of sorceries. The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry." If a collection of Sorcerers (specifically their bodies) can be transformed into the "seeds of stars", this implies that stars somehow grow from life force. Which might explain why the extra-terrestrial Malformed Stars have skulls resembling those of humans.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Amazing video - thank you so much for mentioning my speculation in it! I'm also fine with the Blood Star not being explained in the DLC, but it would be nice to know what the deal is with the huge thorn stakes in the mountaintop giants - it's just so conspicuous that it's frustrating to know so little about those identical thorn stakes! The last connection possibly worth considering is that Radagon's Erdtree influence usually manifests as thorns - his thorny trellis is what blocks us from entering the Erdtree, and it's implied his origins had much to do with that War of the Giants. But there's just so little evidence to support or refute much!

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks again for pointing it out bud! Really added another interesting avenue of investigation!

[@ofcatarina]

tI feel there is also significant over lap with the fell god as well as destined death and the black flame. There are all these tiny threads that don't let you think about one without the other. Black flame monks were once fire monks for example. I think Messmer's flame and it's appearance harkens to what black flame is simply a shadow of today. It is frustrating at times because it feels like there is exactly as much separating these concepts distinctly as there is tying them together and the facts are equally compelling. I know DLC will spawn more questions but I really hope there are SOME answers LOL

[@Blessom]

The timing on this video couldn't be more perfect.

[@sephirothhthemadman2379]

Thank you for this. I'm very interested in learning this lore. Blood for the blood star! And blood for the great mother of truth! I believe them to be the same. I think the requirement of sacrifice for the blood star is due to the lack of the omen blood. That because mohg is omen he can commune direct but non-omens must sacrifice to get the attention of the formless mother. I would also speculate out on the farthest limb that perhaps the star is the form of the formless mother but perhaps her body(the star) and her soul (the mother of truth) are seperated due to some kind of primeval ritual. Probably not but i felt the need to share the idea.

[@SmoughTown]

My pleasure - it’s been a subject I’ve been fascinated in for a long time. So was happy to finally tackle it!

[@Achy_Bones]

I always thought the Giants were impaled by the deathblight roots, as it looks very similar to how we die when we're blighted. Maybe before the rune of death was removed, it was used as a weapon on the Erdtrees most dangerous foes

[@SmoughTown]

So I did wonder this and investigated - the Deathblight thorns, are actually fly wings if you look really closely. So they are different types of thorns

[@Zach-qo1on]

@@SmoughTown I thought death blight came into creation when Godwyn died? Long after the giants were wiped out, the only other option is the thorn sorceries unless Death Blight always been around but mostly tied with the world of the undead and only needed a power of a god for it to come into the land of the living

[@ryanfrancisco7533]

you never fail to bring us absolutely amazing and insightful view points/theories. i've always thought that both the formless mother and the blood star were separate entities for various reasons and the fact that they share commonalities is irrelevant to that fact. though we can't know for certain unless we're given more information from the DLC i really do believe that these are two different beings. either way thank you for making your videos. you can tell there's a lot of time and effort put into them and you not only attempt to look at the bigger picture, but also attempt to connect the smaller dots and details within the picture.

[@SmoughTown]

Hey Ryan! Super kind of you to say all these things; I am really glad you liked the points I made - I actually went into this video with the preconceived idea that they were one and the same. But the more I looked at it, the more my opinion changed!

[@ryanfrancisco7533]

@@SmoughTown You deserve to hear it! There's clearly so much dedication and hardwork put into your videos. From reaching out to others and discussing with them, to finding any relevant connection within game through models, items, or just things that happen to be in the environment. In fact I never realized that it was red glintstone within some of the rises. Either way I've also been watching your entire lore videos, I'm on part 2 and I can't wait to hear your thoughts and theories on the DLC!

[@infinite_ammo]

this is one of my favourite mysteries in elden ring, great vid

[@AzazelHash281]

This community has some of the greatest detective work ive ever seen, every theory video ive seen as felt completely valid

[@TRACTOOOOOOOOOR]

Great thorough analysis of such a small piece of lore! So many connections. Thanks for the updates on the Primeval current, I was struggling to grasp it but now I get it. Updated videos wrapping up older topics would be great too.

[@SmoughTown]

Really pleased you enjoyed it - more updated content to come before the DLC. Some subjects defo need revisit

[@melkerbotin7098]

Amazing video Smough!! The Formless Mother, Land of Reeds and the Blood Star are my favorite parts of the lore, thank you for covering them!!

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks my friend! Pleased you enjoyed it and thanks so much for the membership too!

[@flyingninjamimejr]

Perfect timing I was about to smoke!

[@SmoughTown]

Awesome! Enjoy it!

[@halcyon62277]

Awesome video. I frequently went back and forth regarding whether the Formless Mother and Blood Star were connected or even the same thing and if they were just two different outer gods communing in the same sort of way. Your video has definitely convinced me that they are indeed separate from each other. The graphic at the end really helps put the "pros and cons" together in a concise way. Thank you!

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks my friend! Honestly I do too and I actually went into this video to 'prove' they were the same! But the evidence pointed elsewhere

[@Inthe_Shade]

I love ER lore but this I’ve only recently been made aware of the bloodstar so I’ll definitely have to lock in for this one

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks bud, hope you enjoy it

[@n8doggy733]

great vid as always, also loved you helping put Syrobe ❤

[@BamiAndCheese]

I was really looking forward to this! Your videos are super calming and interesting, you have a great voice! And script

[@SmoughTown]

Means the world to me, so pleased my content is enjoyed by you!

[@arnebobflutschkopf3439]

A good evening for you too, Mr Town.

[@SmoughTown]

Evening!

[@michaellongbottom3331]

I agree The Formless Mother and The Blood Star are not the same. They may even be in competition with each other in the Land of Reeds as The Formless Mother links blood and fire (her spells are all bloodflame and the bloody finger weapons like RoB and Eleonora's poleblade all deal fire damage as well as physical and bleed) but the shield wielded by the samurai starter class you showed in the video also mentioned it being nothing much but had decent fire resistance; odd since it is a wooden shield. So maybe they are in competition for followers and influence due to the civil war

[@colt4505]

Glintstone is not used by "all" sorcerers. Sellian assassins specifically have no glintstone in their Staff of Loss. Wilhelm even made contact with the primeval current, yet he was not taken by it as Lusat and Azur were. I think this is due to his not using glintstone. I have been debated on this before, but I also believe his "glintstone crown" isn't truly glintstone. It resembles memory stone much more than glitnstone, which would link it to the Nox and their moon, which Sellians are also linked to.

[@thatguy779]

Another great video that blows my mind with a wealth of insights I had no idea were there to be found

[@cryingcrane8173]

Amazing video! Excellent coverage of the topic, I learned a lot about glintstone in particular. I also found the thematic connection between the abyss of space and the abyss of blindness and the detail of alberich's hat coming with a blindfold very interesting. I wonder if it has any intended thematic connection with the Flame of Frenzy, which also appears to the blind and suffering, in the form of a light in the back of the eyes. Finger Maiden Hyetta also wears a blindfold. It also reminds me of the Prophet's Blindfold, and the Hierodas and Haima glintstone crowns. Altering Alberich's hat reveals that it is also a glintstone crown - there are large red glintstones in the headwraps. I don't know what it means but I'm definitely looking forward to perhaps seeing more Blood Star lore in the DLC. Plus we NEED more blood sorceries

[@MrMaradok]

Maybe the conflict in the Land Of Reads is a pseudo-war between The Formless Mother and the Blood Star? Both could have been drawn to the Land Of Reads via their connection to blood thanks to the civil war, and together, whether in cooperation or as rivals, turned the conflict up to 11

[@monsieurbear2506]

Came home from the bars late and actually shouted I was so excited to see a new upload

[@forsaken_bacon]

27:50 These “stakes” always reminded me of “Miquella's Needle” given after completing Millicent’s quest line. There is some validity to this considering these needles “ward away the meddling of the outer gods”. It also makes sense why the fire giants would be pierced through the abdomen where the influence of the Fell God manifests. Has Miquella been compromised by the Mother of Wounds? Is she commandeering/bending Miqella’s power of needles and twisting it into corrupted thorn magic? Similar to how Aldrich absorbes/uses the power of Gwyindolin in DS3

[@valentai_777]

I think it’s important not to overlook to true nature of glintstone and intelligence. It is pure life energy, likely that of the spirit and soul. Death sorceries that draw spirits call on Int, the ancestral spirits use bows that draw intelligence, and of course there’s what Sellen tells us: that it’s life force. It makes sense then, that while blue glintstone draws on “residual life” (whatever that means) and ancient life for the amber shard, that red glintstone draws power from the currently living. Aka sacrifices. You can quite literally convert life force to glintstone, likely a reversal of how it’s made to begin with. As was discussed, blue is leftover life force from stars (dead or alive who knows) and amber is of ancient life (maybe from the primordial Crucible, since it’s similar in color scheme and lore). To discern that which is living is much more complicated and ritualistic than simply dissecting power from life long past, which is probably why it draws on faith. There’s also overlap between the gods and stars. The Elden beast is called a golden star. And share a similar bug theme form as the malformed stars. Maybe what “stars” are is the embryonic form of a god. When they eventually mature into the outer gods, and they’re more generic form leaves residual life force (aka glintstone). What makes the Astel’s “malformed” is that they never matured into a god proper. And this must be a common thing, which makes sense. It wouldn’t really be godly if just any of these beast could become an outer god. But perhaps where they can find worship and domain, they can mature into a more unique and original form: an outer god proper. Within a domain, they find worship. And thus faith is needed to draw their powers. This definitely leans on wild speculation, but this has always been my personal interpretation on the relationship between stars and gods. The sky is the cradle of the gods, I would say.

[@irkallla970]

Here’s hoping we get more blood lore and spells in the dlc.

[@lilbuddy324]

thanks smough boutta bump this at work today

[@KaedNinescarred]

This is an incredible video! I love the depth you were able and willing to go to for a topic with so few mentions. I feel like they may not be the same entity, but either way they operate very similarly I would include the Guilty's blindness and Mohg's blinded eye as a similarity on that comparison chart. It's my own conjecture, but Occam's razor is that Mohg's blindness is likely his meeting point with the formless mother. And, the Guilty who were blinded by thorns manifest blood and thorns in their faith magic. Mohg (and those who have his blood) who was blinded by his own omen horn as his blood lit on fire manifests flaming cursed blood and omen horns in his faith arcane magics. Both are blood powered entities found in the darkness of blindness that manifest in spells as the thing that caused the blindness and thus first interacted with it and the blood of the one blinded in that fashion i.e. blood and thorns, and flaming omen blood* and omen horns *which we know to be oily and likely flammable from Morgott's Cursed Blade which looks like an oil slick and reads Warped blade of shifting hue used by Morgott, the Omen King. The accursed blood that Morgott recanted and sealed away reformed into this blade. So it's a blade made of his blood that can light on fire because it's made of his blood. If they aren't the same entity they are at least another example of a common theme in many of this world's conduits of magic, be they outer gods or parts of space. Many of these blind their caster or worshipper and manifest as either the thing that caused the blindness, the blood or an associated medium, portals to directly access the entity or it's location, or a combination. There's the flame of frenzy which blinds with an infectious wormlike burning, similar to its real world parasitic blinding worm infection influence, and manifests as a twisting wormlike burning. The Primeval Current with glintstone sorcerers blinded through eyes getting subsumed by glintstone and manifesting as glintstone (the amber of the stars) or portals to space where the stars are. The God of Rot through the servants of Rot with their eyes overtaken by toxic mushroom overgrowth and manifesting as spores. The Blood Star with the guilty blinded by thorns and their bloody thorn sorceries. The Mother of Truth through Mohg, blinded by his horn, and manifesting as omen horns and bloodflame (burning oily omen blood) and portals to the mother of truth to chuck her burning blood. There's just a lot going on with different magic entities, gods, and egregores that are initially accessed through blindness caused by a specific thing. ... Anyway, there's my running theory/observed theme

[@8SwordStyle]

Fantastic work! Really good insights and a pleasure to watch and listen to.

[@Dunshadow23]

The segment involving the Land of Reeds intrigues me. It makes sense for the Blood Star to have some early influence there, considering the very rigid honor bound mentality often represented in samurai culture. But perhaps the Blood Star's reach there could only go so far, and as the Land of Reeds filled itself in bloody combat the Formless Mother's sway revealed itself. Just some errant speculation but interesting to me anyways. Wonderful work on the video! The Thorn sorceries for what they are had so much more going on than I ever thought they would.

[@MrPuddle30]

Niceeeee, perfect timing Smough! Thanks 🤝

[@SmoughTown]

My pleasure, enjoy!

[@thekerminator6521]

Every single Elden ring video no matter what it’s about, somehow makes me go “OHHHH” about a key part of this story. Like I learned so much about Glintstone, Okina, the Inaba, and Albreich in a video about an obscure outer god that’s mentioned twice

[@cupcakes4018]

It is amazing how in-depth you are willing to go. As well as the level of dedication to correctly citing your sources. Thank you, I wish those covering real life topics had your commitment to uncovering the truth. Hats off to you 🎩

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks so much for the kind words! I really enjoyed diving deep into this subject!

[@bronowiczj]

Another thorough well thought out Gem!!! Thank you Smough!

[@SmoughTown]

My pleasure my friend - hope you enjoy!

[@Queen.In.Yellow]

Both the Formless Mother and the Bloodstar seem to be such overt (albeit probably unintentional) references to Bloodborne to me, which might be why I love them so much. Amazing video as always

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks so much!

[@user-di1fm3rs2t]

Something I hope ends up being in the DLC is spells that summon weapons like carian Greatsword but instead of it being there for a brief time you cast it and it stays until recast and instead of just Greatsword there’s a spell for every weapon class

[@seide2829]

Terrific watch smough! Keep it up

[@EB_Nomad]

Just re-watched your videos on Mohg, Rahdahn, and Miquella, getting ready for the DLC. Then I get a new Video! Love your content Smough

[@SmoughTown]

Cheers my friend! Thanks for revisiting those old videos. Planning to do some revisits on those subjects soon

[@aceundead4750]

Something to keep in mind with Mohg though and his connection to the Formless Mother and it's possible connection to the blood star is that Mohg is a demigod omen so that could change the way in which he specifically would need to make a connection. Being a demigod he was already more powerful than regular people, add on to that his omen form giving him basically a direct connection to the Formless Mother he would then have some form of connection to the blood star if it's related to the Mother, and if it did require some sort of sacrifice even from him his lineage might've made it so he only needed to be partially blinded especially since he had been chosen to be the Formless Mother's lord.

[@SmoughTown]

very true!

[@aceundead4750]

@@SmoughTown although i do agree the Formless Mother and blood stars would have to be separate entities.

[@JohnMcFallumthelordof]

ive been waiting for a blood star video for a long time and i was not dissapointed, 10/10

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks bud, really pleased to hear it reached your expectations

[@JohnMcFallumthelordof]

@SmoughTown your welcome! Your my fav soulsborne lore creator so a new vid is always exciting👍

[@SmoughTown]

Cheers John, means the world to me. Really humbled by your support. @@JohnMcFallumthelordof

[@Old_Gregg]

Another amazing ST lore video! Tysm for all the hard work you’ve put in on everything!

[@SmoughTown]

My pleasure! thanks so much for the kind support

[@w2k88]

So much to think about. You´ve catched my first feeling of the encounters perfectly, while moghs dynasty followers might seem grotesque or bloody they also had some feel of helplessness in them, it didn´t had the same brutal vibes as practically every practioner of thorns, especially if I´m thinking about Elemer of the briar. Have you looked into a possible connection there? Other than that, I´m never realized that so many Elden John statues are there in the throneroom of Mogh. Great Video, thanks for uploading!

[@florianchabaud8548]

Hey Smoughtown, great video as usual and I agree with you, the Formless Mother and the Blood Star are different beings. Another thing, namely the Red Thorn Roundshield that you've mentionned in the video, seems to imply they may even be at odds because the aforementionned shield increases fire damage negation unlike the Formless Mother whose followers actively use fire such as Mohg in his 2nd phase. It's not an amazing discovery but I think it's pretty interesting.

[@murdurmuffin7872]

The Blood Star is to Formless Mother as Radagon is to Marika, as Sorcery is to Incantation, as the Sky is to Earth. Hate and love. Intelligence and wisdom. Regression and Madness. Like every other major theme in Elden Ring, it's a complimentary duality. Not opposites at war, a mirrored difference without which neither half would have definition.

[@firmak2]

I bet we will get more of the Red Star and The formless mother and heresy in general. A combination of thorn/blood magic and behimd Mohgs bossfight.

[@whitedude877]

The observation and connection between the stuck through fire giant corpses in the mountains and the thorn trees in the Liurnia camps was really nice.

[@ellesai7611]

Love your videos man, just finished part 2 of the elden ring triology.

[@AbyssalWaste001]

Cant wait to hear this on Spotify!

[@theultimatetactician1712]

Been sleeping to your dark souls vids for years and now elden ring for soon 2(?) Years. Relly happy you're still going man, really freaking love your vids and voice. You have my eternal love and respect.❤

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks buddy - grateful for your support over all these years.

[@leonardoguerra9913]

Yo great analysis, always on top as usual. I wanted to a add newly discovered perspective from Sabaku no Maiku, another souls creator that you maybe mentioned in a video. Listening to one of the “Apokalipsis” lore videos on his channel, he theorizes that outer gods are in a way more similar to “kami” (japanese gods that represent forces of nature) rather than eldritch entities that want to interference with the population. This is made pretty clear if we consider the various aspects of these outer gods(scarlet rot=decay, frenzied flame=chaos, formless mother=blood). They all tend to expand in some ways too, either by corrupting living beings, or literally taking space in the environment(caelid, moghwin palace, etc.) The blood star shows no real intention, and it’s pretty isolated from the lands between. It really behaves like a star, rather an outer god. As i was listening to your video, one element of “shared experience” really stood out to me. If you think about it: All the criminals that found the blood star have been punished in the same way; all the bStar sorceries require faith; they also require sacrificial blood and( for npcs at least) a condition of temporary or permanent blindness( as seen in Alberich). Now, i just had this crazy theory, it may be wrong and feel free to criticize and correct it♥️: We know the stars guide the destiny of beings in the lands between, at least pre-shattering, but even today if we take seluvius potions. Well…what if it goes two ways? All there criminals had to go though the same destiny, and we can associate destiny with stars. Maybe the star that was the “recipient” of this destiny was accessed by the Bstar sorcerers, and in the same way that the sorcerer peeked into the abyss of the primeval current, the sorcerers stared in to the abyss caused by their blindness, and directly came into contact with the star representing their punishment, and eventually learned how to use that power in the same way that glintstone socerers use the other stars. That would explain why, even if it requires faith, it still needs sacrificial blood and the blindness conditon to use the spells, so a certain level of understanding of the spells that is unique to sorceries. So in a way, we could explain the blood star as an artificial construct that was born by the destiny and experience of the probably thousands of criminals that suddered the same fate. I know this is really far fetched, but i really enjoyed your video and gave me inspiration to theorize a bit myself, even if it may all be wrong. It would be nice and i would be super-grateful if you’d engage in some discourse about this, even if was just to correct some mistakes. Massive respect to your channel and the 10h lore video, i’ll try to watch it all in a non-marathon healty way😂. Thx♥️

[@moxiewatts]

Amazing theories and speculation! I'm looking forward to more

[@Urbaninja1130]

Thanks for all the hard work you do on these videos! Been enjoying your content for a long time

[@SmoughTown]

My pleasure, I really appreciate the support

[@thatguywesmaranan]

what a way to spend my sunday morning chilling... enjoying breakfast while listening to another smoughtown video... LFG!!!

[@Kazmirl]

I always feel excitement when you upload. I have to say, I'm genuinely going to be sad when the day comes that a final Elden Ring video comes out.

[@SmoughTown]

That makes me so happy to hear bud! That my video gives you joy makes it all worth it!