Elden Ring Lore | The Nox and Eternal Cities

[@SmoughTown]

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[@TheNeoLoneWolf]

Considering how nobody seems to know the deeper meaning of Elden Ring, or how things are supposed to fit together, and there seems to be a lot of cut content I'm wondering if Elden Ring is going to get the Scholar of the First Sin treatment. Essentially rereleasing the game with minor updates to everything.

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

Why the anti-pvp sentiment in the ad read? Is that you bro?

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

Me part 2: the twinned theme of everything represents the splitting of the one great, I would think. The hats, empyreans being a rebus and all.

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

Me part 3: the Nox matriarchy is redundant. Everything about Elden Ring is obnoxiously feminist. Pun intended.

[@SmoughTown]

@@ComradeOgilvy369 Hahaha not at all! I love PvP

[@QuestionableObject]

I don't think they trained the ants, they have some kind of mindcontrol on them, if you manage to dismount a Nox ant rider either by staggering the ant or parrying her off the mount the purple glow on the ants eyes disappear and they become hostile to each other and able to hurt & kill each other.

[@SmoughTown]

A great shout, I had wondered about the purple eyes. Thanks!

[@user-ns4zm8qe9p]

Illusion magic of some kind?

[@daphnedherbert]

@@SmoughTown what color occurs with the bewitching branch? I thought the branch itself was purple.

[@Jarmister]

The same effect as mind control branch.

[@Morden97]

Purple mind control thing is associated to Miquella no?

[@one-eyed-dragon]

What is interesting about the Albinaurics is their name means “white gold” and is a clear reference to Platinum, as “Shirogane”, the Japanese name that is used for them, can be translated to Platinum. In alchemy platinum is a combination of gold (represented by the sun) and silver (represented by… the moon), and its symbol is a combination of the symbol of both metals. Just a thing to think about. (Also, Albinauric bloodclot was mentioned LETS GOOOOOOO)

[@MadDannyWest]

Alabaster and Onyx are also fine earth materials 🤔

[@one-eyed-dragon]

@@MadDannyWest the japanese names didnt really specify the stone they were made of iirc, it was more "black" and "white" lords (which thinking about it makes sense why they would change it...). About them specifically, I is interested that they are said to have appeared after a meteorite struck earth, implying it maybe wasnt that they came from space, but that the impact brought them to life. More food for thought ;)

[@MadDannyWest]

@@one-eyed-dragon oh thats funny about the name change, didnt know that lol

[@PenclickProds]

Related to the Albinauric Bloodclot and more environmental storytelling, the Melted Mushrooms seem to be the source of the substance referenced. Outside of the Astel bossroom, where we exit the coffin, there are mushrooms with droplets of an oily substance. These droplets can be found throughout the Eternal cities, hanging from ceilings and candelabra. I believe there is also some correlation to the Scarlet Rot. We take the coffin down a Scarlet Rot waterfall into the cavern with the mushrooms. Almost like the Mushrooms consume this organic/genetic material to produce the oily substance. This is just speculation of course.

[@mmyr8ado.360]

White gold is also used as a term for an alloy that's 75% gold, and was used to imitate platinum.

[@marinribaric9749]

Note where the Black Knife assassins attack Ranni's companions. Iji was attacked at the location where he always resides, while Blaidd is attacked at Three Sisters. Not exactly a place Blaidd is found physically very often. In fact, before we meet and put down Blaidd at Three Sisters, the last time we meet him he is sealed in the Evergaol in Limgrave. Though, there is one member of Ranni's conspiracy who's main residence is in Three Sisters: Ranni herself. Meaning, that those assassins were ment to assassinate Ranni finding her tower empty only to be attacked by Blaidd who just arrived after freeing himself from the evergaol and bee-lining for Three Sisters.

[@andrewhouston5840]

You can find blaidd in the eternal city, radahns palace, and a few other places as well. Not just in the evergaol and three sisters

[@marinribaric9749]

@@andrewhouston5840 Read my comment again. My point is that, before the encounter in Three Sisters where he is surrounded by dead assassins and he attacks you, he can be physically found on a lot of places EXCEPT in Three Sisters. The evergaol being his last location before you can find him in Three Sisters surrounded assassins. Therefore, the assassins weren't meant for him.

[@lennonfargon505]

Don’t the Black Knifes work for Ranni? Why do they start going after her vassals?

[@marinribaric9749]

@@lennonfargon505 That's bit of a mystery and up for debate. It is one of the topics discussed in this video. Also I mused about it more in my other comment to this video. Be warned: it's a bit long.

[@Writh811]

I agree, they were looking for Ranni. Poor Blaidd though, he either is consumed by battle lust from fighting the assassins before we show up or worse yet; he mistakenly believes he's been betrayed. His life long comrades imprisoned him for reasons he doesn't know. He gets free and goes home and is attacked by the Black Knives. If his last understanding of the Black Knives was still that they were Ranni's friends from the Night of Black Knives then whether they were sent for him or not he may have misinterpreted it as Ranni sending them after him. Then we show up after his potential would be assassin's are killed, what else could he assume but Ranni sent us to finish the job. I almost feel like it is better that he lost his will rather than MISTAKENLY believing he's been betrayed.

[@arnoluyten3476]

I wonder if the the Blind Swordsman was a member of the nightfolk or an albinauric. The cult that sprung up around the god of Rot is situated underground and would have been a threat to Nokstella, so it makes sense that the one to seal the god away would have been employed (or even created) by the eternal city. Besides that his blindness might be caused by the same blood clots things that makes albinaurics lose their legs or voice; and perhaps the reason that the Swordsman is so ever-moving and concerned with stagnation is because physical activity can keep further clots from forming in the first place. The blue that he wore is supposed to remind of flowing water and that's absolutely a concept that permeates Noxian culture: from shape-shifting Silver Tears and the liquid flowing metals they're made of, to the fact that the two remaining Eternal Cities are built around the two only underground rivers, Ainsley and Siofra. And I can see why the Blind Swordsman would agree to teaching Malenia, who's loyal to a lord that goes on to create a safe haven for the albinaurics.

[@marcarribaslopez8910]

Wow, thats great reasouning

[@NordicVigilante]

Nice

[@CthulhuTheory]

It's possible the Blind Swordsman was a particularly gifted warrior from one of the cities, especially given their penchant for covering their faces/eyes to not be seen, especially given the weapons of the swordstresses have maleable and flowing properties. Fascinating concept and I think there may be some legitimate merit.

[@ArmoredSoul1]

The large ants you interpret as pregnant are actually full of food. They look exactly the same way Honeydew ants look. They have a special worker type called a Replete. So they're the food stores of the ants.

[@rav3style]

This person is 100% correct

[@McGeeMcGeeMcGee-g7w]

I was gonna say the same thing! It's much more reasonable than having that many Queens.

[@ArmoredSoul1]

@@McGeeMcGeeMcGee-g7w Yeah I know some specific ant colonies can reproduce where every ant is capable of being a queen, or some ant colonies that are capable of forming mega hives with 4-5 queens, but them being Repletes makes much more sense. Them holding souls also makes sense because when we kill rats and dogs, they'll drop soul items, and soul items are also dropped by corpses, so clearly, consumable soul items can be "eaten" by animals.

[@tuba3000]

@@ArmoredSoul1 Ahem, runes*

[@ArmoredSoul1]

@@tuba3000 God damn it I'm never gonna remember to correctly call them runes, but yes, runes.

[@rukenshin1709]

When you finish Lattena questline you encounter one of those big ass Albinauric, I always wondered if they had anything to do with the giant skeletons on the chairs in Nox/Nokron. Maybe they grow larger as time goes or being fed by something.

[@neerajmangalanandan4168]

This "growing big" aspect needs more consideration imo. If you look at dragonkin soldiers, they could seem like giant Nox people that tried to turn dragon and failed. Phillia (the big ass woman) seems to be an albinauric that underwent the same giantification process too. Ive got no clue how to link this with everything else but it does seem to be a recurring thing.

[@seagoat3852]

@@neerajmangalanandan4168 I remember reading in a reddit thread a while ago that someone had linked the 'gigantism' in the Lands Between with the power of Great Runes. Look at Morgott, who withers into a scrawny and normal-sized being after his Rune is claimed from him but before he actually dies. Look at Ranni's original body, which was roughly the same size factor bigger than the Tarnished before it was killed (and presumably the puppet body couldn't grow even before Ranni gave up her Rune). There's a few exceptions such as Rennala, who has no rune of her own and doesn't shrink when it's claimed from her egg. But Rennala and her egg are kind of exceptions in general, considering that Rune doesn't need to be activated at a divine tower, can't be equipped, and doesn't appear to harm the egg at all when taken. I think it's entirely possible the Tarnished doesn't actually have the rune of the unborn at all, and instead has some sort of... NFT for it, which allows the rebirthing process without side effects. If so, then the egg still has the true Rune, transferring the excess 'growth' to Rennala. The other exception is easier to explain. Malenia's Great Rune feeds her Scarlet Rot, rather than giving her inhuman growth to the same degree as other Shadbearers. As for how the Nox would create giants in the same way, I think it's entirely possible the inhuman growth from shards of the Elden Ring is due to it being a focus of the Greater Will's power in the Lands Between. In the same vein, another Outer God (such as the Black Moon) could grant that same growth. Though I imagine the growth as more a side effect of creating a viable Lord of Night rather than the end goal.

[@DestructoVic]

@@seagoat3852 What about Godfrey, he's huge but doesn't have a great rune.

[@khandimahn9687]

@@DestructoVic Considering who his parents are, Godfrey was likely a pretty big boy to begin with. But certainly not THAT big. I think after his soul was killed, the body is now essentially like a cancer, growing uncontrollably, and corrupting whatever it touches.

[@floofflez1134]

@@DestructoVic good question

[@orderofscribes]

I personally think the twin iconography is in reference to the two moons. The Full moon that renalla and her ancient predecessors revered, and the Dark moon that the nox and rani revere. For even in real life when the moon is full, its light snuffs out the stars and illuminates the night, while when it is dark (a new moon) the path of the stars is clear as day. This concept could be similar in the lands between and would be an interesting way to play on the theology of the moon in the lands between and its duality in real life.

[@NeoGato2point0]

this comment is so insightful. glad i read it. ties in well with the twin moon spells and everything. almost 100% you are spot on with this

[@orderofscribes]

@@NeoGato2point0 Awe shucks. thanks, I’m glad. This game and its lore just lends itself to creative inspiration so beautifully.

[@seracris8357]

very interesting comment. One thing to note though is that SmoughTown actually differentiates between the "dark moon" of Ranni and the "black moon" of the Nox. Maybe Ranni's dark moon is a third path between the full moon and the black moon. Not invisible and not too bright to like you said snuff out the stars. I think this would even fit in with SmoughTowns theory in this vid.

[@orderofscribes]

@@seracris8357 I see that, and that would be interesting in its own right. Though wouldn’t it make more sense if the dark moon that leads ranni to ultimately become the lord of night and bring about the age of stars, and the black moon that the nox worship to anticipate their lord of night that is supposed to bring about that very same age were one and the same?

[@orderofscribes]

@@seracris8357 So i hadn’t finished the video yet and I just got to the part where Smough explains the difference. It does seem more plausible to me that the three moons are distinct now due to the memory stone description of the moon *once* hanging in the sky. Maybe the Nightmaiden’s twin cap refers to the full moon and black moon and those opposing dualities, and maybe the dark moon wasn’t known to them for whatever reason. I mean ranni (and potentially her teacher) is the only one that has any ties to this dark moon with the moon specifically being claimed as “her” moon, so maybe it is a reflection of her ambition, similar to the Nox’s but with some of her mother’s light to guide the way. I don’t know that might be a stretch. It’s interesting to think though that the moons are not stated to be outer gods and drawing upon their power requires intelligence unlike all outer gods requiring faith. In fact it requires intelligence, an understanding and logic of the world around you (assuming intelligence works similarly to other fromsoft games). Thus maybe the moons are a reflection of this, the manifestation of a group of sorcerers’ wills in their attempt to navigate the stars and the primeval current. Spewing some words but this game so good man how can I not.

[@funny5678910]

I got the impression that the nightfolk came from silver tears, not the other way around. As in silver tears taking human form breeding and slowly basically becoming another race of human, or their offspring just being human. They used to bleed silver but as they became less silver and had less ability to transform they lost their silver blood.

[@SIRslipperyasp91]

My theory is silver tears can mimic humans so perfectly they produce actual sperm and eggs, and possess functing wombs and lactate real milk. Children of silver tears are made of carbon and water like normal people though and so only superficially resemble their silver tear parents. The nigtfolk who bleed silver were the silver tear ancestors who started nightfolk society.

[@khandimahn9687]

While it is hard to tell which came first, I am pretty certain there is a connection.

[@kingnro1]

I think this definitely makes more sense

[@NordicVigilante]

@@khandimahn9687 i came first... This game is too exciting

[@alektothefury2680]

Awesome vid, the Nox are my favorite faction and this is the most in-depth video I've come across for them. I just want to throw in a small observation I've made of Noxian presence in Liurnia. The statue we interact with in The Church of Vows is Noxian, and of course, the celestial dew is a direct connection to the race. I've always thought it was extremely interesting that the people who possess our path to atonement are the same people who reside in exile.

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh that's absolutely spot on re the Church of Vows!

[@whosdaman911]

For all the content creators, over all the years I've been on KZbin, you are the first and only creator I have turned on notifications for. Fantastic work! 500 hours logged on elden ring and I still consider your channel essential to understanding the full story. To many more! 🍻

[@SmoughTown]

Thats amazing! I really appreciate you supporting me, and as you say...here's to many more!

[@bryanstevenson912]

Same

[@ravencarino6115]

I agree. There are a lot of Elden Ring youtubers but this dude and only so few others can consistently create great researched lore videos.

[@SmoughTown]

@@ravencarino6115 Thank you all!

[@смрш]

This is speculation, but consider that THE Eternal city being the nameless one may imply that it was the first and, during it's time, only eternal city. Only after it's destruction (and potentially the destruction of their moon) did the nox spread out, looking for alternatives to meet their aspirations, taking their most important relics with them and founding two new cities and even expanding to the surface via selia. But again, this is just speculation

[@williambell3304]

Supporting this, I think is The moniker "The Eternal City" being the one given to Rome for it's being the heart of an empire, seen as a foundational Center of learning and culture for much of Europe, from a past age.

[@Shmethan]

I read a really cool theory the other day that faram azula could have been the original singular eternal city! And then when it was crashed into by astel's meteor, the nox moved underground from there. That theory doesn't really explain what destroyed the nameless eternal city tho, but it would likely have something to do with the erdtrees roots or godwyn

[@смрш]

@@Shmethan hmm idk I don't find that likely at all, there's no precedent for it. The only thing I could think of is that the underground eternal cities have no clear point of entry for a meteor/star, but then we know they can just teleport and we can also find falling star beasts in small mines so I guess it doesn't matter. But even then farum azula is very architecturally distinct from the eternal cities and very clearly has its own history. And finally, I don't know why you'd need to pull farum azula into this when there's a perfectly good destroyed eternal city lacking a sky already there in a much more sensible location. As for Godwin, he's almost certainly a new addition to the area. At least the way I understand the timeline, I mean think about it, to the characters in the game, Godwin is new history, remembered by all, meanwhile the nameless eternal city is never mentioned, completely forgotten. Iji refers to Nokron as Nokstellas twin, implying to me that he's not aware of any other cities, or deems it so irrelevant that it's not worth mentioning.

[@KosOrSomeSayKosmo]

That's what I was thinking as well, it would also make sense that the Nox would decide to not have only a central hub but rather spread out to protect their society. I think that would align with Iji referring to Nokstella and Nokron as twin cities, implying that they came about at the same time, after the destruction of the original eternal city.

[@LtCdrXander]

Agreed except for the last part about Sellia. I think it was the other way around from what you said. The Nox existed above ground first, then were forced underground by the Greater Will (I think in-game descriptions confirms this), so the Nox probably began in Sellia. The black hole night sorcery found in the Sellia watchtower was made by the Nox originally, so the other night sorceries used by the Raya Lucarian sorcerers in present-day Sellia also originated with the Nox. A long time ago, the Nox likely had their own city in the area where Sellia now stands, but it was destroyed by the Greater Will, with only the chair and giant skeleton left behind. Sellia was maybe built on top of the site of this ancient Eternal City many years later. Evidence supporting my theory is that Nokron is located right below Sellia, is as evident by the presence of the Deep Siofra Well nearby. Thinking further, I've tweaked my theory a bit. I think present-day Sellia is the same as the Eternal City that was originally there. When you light the beacons in Sellia, it shows a blue flame. This same blue flame is also used as a light source in Nokron and Nokstella, so present-day Sellia could be the same as the Nox ancient city, just with different inhabitants in the present day. The Raya Lucarian sorcerers maybe took over Sellia, stole the Nox' sorceries and created their own versions, and extinguished the town's blue flames and placed magic seals to trap the last remaining Nox (swordstress and priest bosses) so they had complete control.

[@VLimit11]

Interesting, I never considered the idea of Godskins as another weapon of the Eternal Cities. That could be a pretty cool connection between the Nox and the Crucible that's reflected in the Godskins' abilities. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the lineage of the numen once you get around to that!

[@nehirrogers-sirin592]

Ur one of the best elden ring channels, I feel like this game is a lot more complicated lore wise than previous ones so channels like yours that go really in depth on one topic are really good

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks so much! I'll keep trying my best

[@rhapsody5645]

Yeah he's got a great ability to connect dots and arrive at very plausible answers. Maybe consider detective work? :)

[@shogomakishima7224]

Above Noskella we can find ruined statues that are similar to the ones we see below. I am talking about the location near the two walking mausoleums where the surface dwelling ancestral followers reside. We can also see that the statue of Absolution is exactly the same as the one found in the eternal cities ad yes it is also above Noskella. At least to me it suggests that Noskella was once literally above ground.

[@shogomakishima7224]

@a proverbial lemon Yes. When I look at Nokron I can't seem to find any clues but hey... it is located between Mistwood and Caelid and part of that space is under water.

[@antigrav6004]

I'm wondering who the person depicted in the statue is supposed to be as well. He was clearly very important to them. Could he be the giant skeleton on the throne?

[@shogomakishima7224]

When I now think about it I do find it interesting the it is in Uhl Palace Ruins below ground we can find two malformed stars and Astels wing. Perhaps those are the remnants of Astel leveling down what was once a city above ground? What I speculate is that Uhl/Uld was the initial eternal city. When it submerged the Nox rebuild it below ground. Now the name Eternal City would imply that it is eternal but in the game itself we can find references of people revering to Nox/Numen as the eternals. (Gowry dialogue and Marika's title) So perhaps the eternal city is just supposed to imply that it is a Nox/Numen city.

[@shogomakishima7224]

@a proverbial lemon Yes I suppose. I took a look at this statue one more time and from what I can see he has roots growing from his legs. Not really sure what to make of it. But hey the whole Uhl/Urd ruins location reminds me of the architecture of ancient Greece so I bet they are supposed to be quite very old.

[@shogomakishima7224]

@a proverbial lemon I don't know. Tbh I am of the mind that the Pests moved in after the ruins were abandoned. I don't think they could have build it. Those ruins are in Uhl/Uld, Grand Cloister area both of which are very close to Noskella proper and then near Nokron but the pests are only present in Grand Cloister. Furthermore I am not clear what does the name Grand Cloister imply? Is it a Grand Cloister for the Pests or was it a Grand Cloister in the time before the Pests moved in... or maybe both? about the flowing sword... yes there is "nox flowing sword" but there is also "Flowing Curved Sword" withe the following description: "Legends speak of a master of the sword garbed in blue, and his curved blade that was patterned after flowing water. " So I will bet that this is the one from the legend.

[@hinkelstein1494]

I believe that the high treason committed by the Eternal City was not slaying a "two-finger" but the former god of their age. The fingerslayerblade does resemble the Sacred Relic Sword, which is the body of Marika/Radagon. The description also shows similarity. Also, there is the fact, that their silvertear and dragon-kin soldier experiments were intended to create a lord of their own, which would mean they would have to kill the former lord, to replace them. With the god slain and the eternal city being punished for their treachery, Marika an eternal becomes the eternal, abandons her society and fills the power vacuum by ascending to godhood. While we can't say much about her personality, it seems like she is a very treacherous person, as seen in her relationship with Maliketh, Godfrey, Radagon and even her own children. So it wouldn't be out of character to have betrayed the Numen and have grasped for power. Furthermore, I think the claymen are proof of that theory. The ancient dynasty can be assumed as the equivalent to Marika and her modern golden dynasty. Their priests are imitating the Oracle Envoy bubbles and look for "revelation". (Since the Oracle Envoys are an image closely related to the angels in the book of revelation in the bible, I presume it's just another link) So what I think happened is that the Eternal City has killed their god, and now they look for the Oracle Envoys, so they can herald the arrival of a new god/age, since theirs is dead. But the Oracle Envoys only are able to play their music when the time is right, the search of the claymen was in the end pointless.

[@olecleophus1976]

Not sure on Marika's nature, but I took the crime to be exactly that: killing a god. The knife isn't the murder weapon - it's the gruesome proof

[@hinkelstein1494]

@@olecleophus1976 As an Exempel, here is Malikeths remembrance "Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him."

[@francescofrancescato1251]

@@hinkelstein1494 i'am agree with you with Marika's nature :) I just don't understand who could be this god who was sluaghtered... maybe Placidaux's consort? Who was she though?

[@hinkelstein1494]

​@@francescofrancescato1251We have these statues everywhere that look like Moses also holding these stone slabs like the ones Marika hoards in her bedroom. Also, there is a variation where he looks very similar to the Radagon/Marika statue. Honestly, I don't know... maybe he's even Placidaux's consort, maybe he's just some guy. We can't say that without further lore input.

[@francescofrancescato1251]

@@hinkelstein1494 i think Placidaux's consort has to be female, since all the candidates to become possibile vessels of the Elden Ring are female (Marika, Ranni, Miquella (hybrid) and the Gloam-eyed queen)

[@grimerlin]

I always thought that the false night sky was created by the Nox themselves in order to have an artificial link to the sky and the stars despite being banished underground. This would help them pursuing their objective of bringing their Lord of Night and Age of the Stars. In particular, what lead me to believe this is the description of an item you didn't mention, the sorcery Eternal Darkness which states: "Forbidden sorcery of Sellia, Town of Sorcery. Creates a space of darkness that draws in sorceries and incantations. Originally a lost sorcery of the Eternal City; the despair that brought about its ruin made manifest." The last sentence implies it was a sorcery created by the Nox of the Eternal City and I think it could be the one they used to either summon their night sky or another moon (maybe the dark moon since there's the word "darkness" involved, but it's a bit of a stretch). Either way, something went wrong and they summoned Astel from this dark void portal. Considering the petrified people and the parallel of Bloodborne you mentioned, to me this resembles a ritual they used to beckon the moon just like they did in Yahar'gul as you said. Similarly to the One Reborn of Bloodborne, they summoned a malformed thing, in this case Astel, the despair that brought about its ruin made manifest (quoting the description). It could be the same ritual they originally performed to summon the black moon of Nokstella and/or their night sky underground. Aside from this theory, I still like yours revolving around the concept of "eternal" as a punishment from the Greater Will. However, Marika is described as the Eternal and Gowry states that the Sellians are descendants of the Eternal, which inclines me to believe the word "eternal" used to describe the cities is more like a reference to the Nox/Numen, called the Eternal. Overall, great video as always, every minute of the 1.30h was worth watching. It pretty much covered almost everything regarding the topic, except maybe for the story of the Fallen Hawks who were sent to explore the Eternal City. The clay men and their oracles (which I believe are linked to the oracle envoys as they both use bubbles and the weapon arts of the horns and spells have the same name) probably deserve their own video for a more in-depth analysis but it was still worth mentioning them regarding the connections with the Nox that you explained in the video.

[@Swordsage]

Something I noticed about the Nox while I was playing that isn't really lore related, but I find interesting nevertheless... Anyone else notice their similarities to the Drow from DnD? - They both have dark skin. - They both live in underground societies. - They both have a female led society. - They both are known for excellent craftsmanship and architecture. - They both have associations with darkness, the night, and assassination. - They both are known for having a graceful, evasive fighting style. - Drow have an association with spiders; Nox have an association with ants. Then there's the interesting parallel between the Nox's association with the (dark) moon, and the minor Drow Church of Eilistraee, who's eponymous goddess is associated with the moon. Considering Miyazaki's love of western fantasy, I would not be surprised if he based the Nox on the Drow. There might even be some lore significance to this: look up the Child of the Yggdrasil, and Eilistraee supposedly influencing someone to carve a rune into it in order to grant Drow the ability to walk under the sun unhindered.

[@rodrigobritobernardo7913]

the drow were the first thing I thought while watching this!

[@Lamortblack]

Yes I was reminded of the "lights" of Menzoberranzan. From R.A. Salvatore

[@draghettis6524]

There's also the similarity in lifespan, as the Nox are Numen ( at least in the current understanding of the lore ) and Drows are, well, Elves, so with a lifespan around ten times longer than a human.

[@henrikmygren]

The Lands between seems to have mostly undead populations beside the more mysteries creatures and folks like Nox and Tarnished. But what interest me more are the lands "outside" the lands between. Where as numens,northerners,reedlanders etc where those people hail from. Are they guided by fingers aswell or live more "outside" the cosmic forces. Are their lands more populated by "living" humans? The lands between sounds more like a plane/land of the dead at the moment but thanks to ring shattering cannot get passed the cycle of death thus all "unliving" But we know people travel to lands between would love to see more of those lands in the future.

[@harrysmyhomeboy]

Rykard found Tanith as a dancing girl in a bar in a distant land, and the church confessor set references churches of the two fingers in outside lands, so there did seem to be some movement of people and ideas both into and out of the Lands Between and the wider world prior to the shattering, and at least some worship of the two fingers outside of the Lands Between. Personally I don't see the entire world being under the sway of the Golden Order, the abilities and influence of the demi-gods and outer gods in this game seem a little more "small scale," relatively speaking, but I honestly don't know. Ranni's ending sure seems unnecessarily grand if she's just gonna be the godqueen of a few castles and maybe 30 sane people. Did marika seal away destined death from all the places in the world? That'd suck if you live in the 99% of the world that doesn't have the Erd tree close by to be buried beneath. Are astrologers in the land of reeds stumped as to why the stars stopped moving? I dont know, but they're interesting questions.

[@agm5424]

A youtuber, don't remember who, theorized that the name of "the lands between" implies that the continent exist in an in-between state, as in it is connected with the cosmos/spirit world. He also suggested that this is a reference to the manga Berserk in wich there's a plane of existence called the Interstice where the spiritual world and the phisical world meet/connect and humans can encounter spiritual beings and vice versa. This would make sense since Elden Ring has more influence/ references from Berserk than any other FromSoftware game.

[@henrikmygren]

@@harrysmyhomeboy @AGM as both of you say it interesting what could lie beyond.

[@dantoki6371]

Here's a kinda wild theory. What if the Eternal City wich Astel destroyed was located around the consecrated snowfields wich was at some point in time was underground. Firstly there are those huge stone pillars that are only can be found in siofra and outside of Nokron. The lightning speheres can only be found at two places, as far as I know, the snow fields and Siofra. There are couple of ancestral worshippers in the area too. There's the teleporter that takes us to the Mohgwyn palace. (Also every teleporter seems to be Noxian in design) Every Eternal City is located next to a river/flowing waters and here we have a frozen river. Astel is right there in the mines, wich dobs it's meteorite spell wich is the "manisfestation that leveled the eternal city". (Theres also an Onyx and Alabster lord in the tunnels wich is a sign of meteoric activity.) There is also the "fourth" dragonkin soldier, or at least a ghost of it, who are undeniably tied to the Nox. And as the description say, "where they knew no true sky." Therfore that place might have been within a cavern long time ago. And then there is Ordina. As far as I remember, the architecture of the town is the same as Sellia's and these are the only two places that are using these assets/architecture. And what we find in that town? Black knife assassins, who are the scions of the Eterenal City. Now I disagree with the notion that the black knives are literally from the ECs. Isn't the word scion means descendant? Same way as the Sellians are the descendants of the Eternal, so too are the Knives, just most likely a different city. Also,I don't think the pre banishment Nox civilazation a was conteporary to Marika or at least to her rule, becasue the Ainsel river map says: "The vast region is said to be the grave of civilizations that flourished before the Erdtree.". Sure, it's possible she was alive back then, but since she was the one at the helm who pushed the whole age of the Erd tree thing, so I doubt she was a big deal back then even if she was alive at the time.

[@jennaherman3859]

the Only issue i have with this is the Unnamed Eternal city is located Directly Beneath the Capital, and cradled in the Roots of the Erd Tree not beneath the icy lands of the north. In addition we have the UHL ruins. one set of these ruins are located in the Siofra River area below Norkron, the area with all the spirit like almost Minotaurish people. we can see the architecture of these ruins are more in line with those found at the Mohgwyn Palace. we can find these same ruins in at least 2 other Areas that i am currently aware of. the Ainsel River area, and above ground in the North eastern part of Liurnia of the Lakes, near the 2 walking Mausoleums and south of the Frenzied Flame village. the UHL ruins are identified with a more Greek/Romanesque Style with round pillars and the Babylonian style tombstone like objects with what appears to be writings of some kind. they also tend to have Giant Statues of a Wizened Figure, which looks to me almost like a traditioal wizard or kingly like figure who was obviously important in some way as their are many of these kinds of statues in the area. We otherwise have no Information about these people except that perhaps their Descendants have taken up nurturing the Ancestral Spirits since we fight 2 such bosses in their areas.

[@dantoki6371]

@Zinc Deficiency As the relic sword says "remains of a god, who should have lived eternal" So I guess her title is rather points towards her godhoodness. But I don't think every Nox is Numen. For example their skin and eye color is different. We mainly find Numen runes in the nameless EC, while in the others, as far as I remember, there isn't any (besides the mohgwyn palace if that counts). Also if Marika came from the EC directly then she should really push for the age of stars stuff right? There are also most of the Numen related stuff makes a point that they came outside and even have a land, like Marika's hammer made in those lands, but it doesn't look Noxian at all, to me at least.

[@dantoki6371]

@@jennaherman3859 I'm not saying that the nameless EC was the one that was possibly destroyed around the snowfields, but a fourth one. My issue with the supposed destruction of the nameless EC, by Astel is that, while the place is not in a great shape, there isn't any sign of a meteoric destruction, the buildings mostly are just sunk into the ground, wich isn't that strange since it stands on a lake, like the academy gate town in liurnia. On the topic of Uhl dynasty. Honestly I think it's possible that those are the buildings of the pre banished nox civilzation, but I wouldnt say that I am 100% on that. As for the ancestral followers they are a strange bunch. While they seem to have some ties to the greek-ish ruins, they look way different than the old bearded man depicted as a statue. On the other hand they have similar skin to the noxians but different eyes. But maybe they migrated underground, since they keep their distance from the Erdtree as their item description states.

[@Serges6578]

@@dantoki6371 The only well verified examples of Numen, Marika and the character creation default for Numen also don't look alike though. I think Numen could just have a variable look.

[@dantoki6371]

@@Serges6578 Yeah, but nor Marika and nor the default Numen characters are grey skinned as the Nox. There is also a third Numen candidate. If you finish Daillos' quest, after he dies, he leaves behind a Numen rune.

[@Sleeper_6875]

I really feel like the lore is finally coming together, only a few more connections to make like some stuff around the carians and the albinaurics, Marika and her involvement in (and possible orchestrating of) the night of black knives, and everything around melina and the gloam eyed queen whether they’re connected or not

[@DJProfessorL]

Smoughtown has become the premier FromSoft lore content creator recently

[@SmoughTown]

You'll make me cry!

[@ElevenDollarCheese]

Yeah, he takes gold this time around. Let Vaati keep his medal for Bloodborne, this guy gets gold for ER.

[@Wolf-bz6kq]

nobody ever mentions that perhaps after completing age of stars instead of being considered elden lord you are lord of night

[@mole9189]

The mimic tear ashes item description also explicitly states that "Mimic tears are the result of an attempt by the Eternal City to forge a lord".

[@lrakwons9799]

Oooooooooooooo I’m excitedddddd gonna shower then roll up for another masterpiece 😌😌😌

[@SmoughTown]

hell yeah!

[@Kolslov]

Sounds awesome dawg, currently taking a few swigs

[@SmoughTown]

@@Kolslov Enjoy!

[@ghosttraintittiebeaan4879]

@@Kolslov Ayy this is the best youtube comments crew in a minute, take some bong rips and eat while watchin! cant wait

[@battlericky17]

Jamming pancakes into my face, unshowered

[@Astuo]

The twin horns on the priestess helm could represent the crescent moon; there are real-world examples of this, such as in iconography of the Greek moon goddess Selene.

[@brightsparkiv4]

I will never cease to be amazed at your ability to fascinate me about subjects I never even thought about during my playthrough. Another excellent video.

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you as always my dude

[@1cynicalsaint]

This is probably hands down my favorite ER Lore video yet. The Nox and the Eternal Cities have long been one of the hardest bits of lore to sort through, imo. This did a great job of showing how they fit into things. Overall everything here seems to fit into everything very well. The one bit I feel the least certain of is the Night of Black Knives. My thought on the subject has always been that the Assassins were a faction of Numen that once served Marika but had become more loyal to the Golden Order/Two Fingers seeking to punish Marika and her kin for questioning the Order, and formed an alliance of convenience with Ranni, and perhaps didn't even know her plans. I have little direct evidence of this, the best I can give you is the implication that other Demigods were slain besides Godwyn ("...and in the Night of the Black Knives, Godwyn the Golden was first to perish" implies that others were killed as well), and the fact that Godwyn was the only to die "wrong" due to Ranni's intervention. This would also explain why they move against Blaidd and Iji when she makes her move against her Two Fingers. So far the take you present here is my favorite alternative, and I'm honestly not sure which I feel fits best to me between them (I honestly dislike the "Marika was party to the plot" takes because it just doesn't feel right to me for reasons that I find difficult to articulate). One bit of rampant speculation I have on the subject is perhaps Radagon had some hand in it. As the "Leal hound of the Golden Order" - and given his connections to Marika could also be said to likely have connections to the Numen (depending how you want to interpret their "same person"ness), it doesn't seem to huge of a leap to think that there might be a faction of Numen ladies that simp for Radagon. ....But this of course requires a lot of assumptions about the nature of the Marika/Radagon relationship that we can't really be sure of yet. So if there's any truth to this I'd call it a "lucky guess" more than anything.

[@errantvice7335]

YES! I’ve been waiting since I descended the Soifra well for this video. Nothing quite matches that trip deep down, except maybe the blood moon scene in bloodborne or the soul of cinder reveal

[@SmoughTown]

Agree! so hard to beat

[@cfh23666]

I had to ride the elevator up and down a few times to take it all in. Probably the moment I knew I was hooked on the game. Couldn’t describe the excitement I felt.

[@AusVersehen]

I am not convinced by your deductions on the claymen. The item description clearly says they served AS priests IN the ancient dynasty. That is quite different from "they served the ancient dynasty". As priests they were presumably even high ranking members of the ancient society. "Serve" is just the word that is used for working in the church (similar for the military), not a diminution of one's status.

[@NiraSader]

It’s also interesting that the Urumi, which is said to be wielded by nightfolk warriors, and acts a lot like the flowing sword, is found in Caria manor.

[@bartmongiello]

Just a note regarding the part of the video where Gowry claims the Sellian’s are descendants of the “eternal”. Yes, it pretty much makes it clear that they are borne of the race that lives below them, but it also hints, and further validates, the theory that Marika is also borne of the Nox. It’s in her name. Marika the Eternal. He doesn’t say descendants of the eternals. He says eternal. Everything in these games is so purposeful. To the point that even a single letter being omitted has meaning.

[@TheStruggler-wb7mk]

Yeah, I'm surprised he didn't mention that, because I picked up on it awhile ago. So have other lore creators.

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

Correction: the big bloated ants are not 'pregnant'. They are honeypot ants. These exist in real ant colonies. Basically certain ants will eat so much that they bloat into a liquid-filled sac which can be used to feed the other ants. People harvest and eat them because they are nutritious and apparently taste very sweet. Even the design in Elden Ring is the same, with sections of their carapace broken apart from the stretching. They must have been feeding on the corpses of Numen to contain these runes. Also, ants lay eggs, they do not become pregnant. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_ant

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks for the correction Winky - someone else also said the same!

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

@@SmoughTown no worries. Thanks for making great vids!

[@davideo7286]

Hey, I don't know if that's 100% always accurate. For example my aunt, was pregnant with my cousin. =)

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

@@davideo7286 your cousin got your aunt pregnant? No wonder you thought this was a joke worth posting.

[@raileygrinder1140]

Hi, SmoughTown! I stumbled upon an item that I don’t remember anyone talking about. Urumi, a whip that you can find inside Caria Manor states “this weapon made of extremely thin, flexible blades of metal is wielded like a whip by Nightfolk warriors. Though in essence a whip with a cutting edge, it can also be used as a spear to pierce foes.” This whip shares many similarities to the Nox hammer and curved sword, and uses the exact term “Nightfolk” when describing the warriors that wielded it. Not only that, but the Carians also have many connections to the Nox, so finding this Nightfolk weapon in the Caria Manor is all too suspicious. There are just too many similarities for it to be mere coincidence.

[@akaErma]

I just started a Nightfolk character, so this could not have come at a better time!

[@Topbruv]

Very much appreciate these longer videos, good work. Hope to see you hit that 100k mark in the near future you deserve it

[@SmoughTown]

[@bokagoofy]

Around halfway through the video I became very excited as I suspected the bloodclot description was coming up soon. Great video as always, and praise the bloodclot!

[@SmoughTown]

So happy the Bloodclot returned

[@kalzero3319]

Speculation* I think Marika was allied with the Black Knife Assassins, or at the very least the ones involved with the assassination of Godwyn. The evidence that Marika was in on the plot to kill Godwyn in my eyes was the actions of the black knife assassins we see in game. Their leader Alecto was imprisoned in the Moonlight area. Suggesting that it could have been Ranni herself that put her there. After Ranni slays her Two Fingers we see the members of her war council Iji and Blaiid get attacked by Black knife assassins. Suggesting to me that after the plot to kill Godwyn's soul was enacted the assassins had orders to betray Ranni. They show up at Ranni's tower where we see Blaiid(who is struggling against his Two Finger's programming) kneeling beside a bunch of dead Black Knife assassins. Same with Iji. If you visit Iji and get the last bit of dialogue from him you can reset at a grace point and come back to find him dead and covered in Destined Death black flames. Around him we find another group of dead Black Knife Assassins that he presumably killed in self defense. This suggests to me that Marika greenlit the assassination of Godwyn. Then when the plot was carried out the assassins were ordered to double cross Ranni. This could've been to put a stop to Ranni's grand plan of overthrowing the Golden Order with a new Dark Moon dynasty and to clean up any loose ends. The assassins worked with Ranni but secretly were loyal to Marika. This is obviously speculation but I highly doubt Ranni had the Black Knives murder her closest childhood friends. She is ruthless and willing to risk their lives to see that her agenda came to fruition but the outright killing of them serves no purpose. So who else has any connection with the Numen Black Knife assassins? Marika is the only one that comes to mind. She wanted the shattering to take place and she was willing to see all of her children dead or worse to see that her plan succeeded. This was just another chess mibe made by the ultimate schemer. There is a ton of Evidence to suggest that Marika was the mastermind behind most of the events that took place in the story. Hueg the Blacksmith crafting a blade to kill a god, the grace being temporarily taken from Godfrey and the tarnished, Radagon being sent as an agent to bring the Carian Royalty into the fold then being pulled back to the Capital to merge with Marika, the fell flame being left to be tended by the last giant until it was needed to burn the tree, Melina and her mysterious purpose to light herself on fire with said fell flame and burn the Erdtree, etc etc

[@francescofrancescato1251]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@Etticos.]

“Already covered content much better than I could do” Bro your videos are easily Vaati-tier

[@SmoughTown]

Too kind my friend! Thank you

[@brother5423]

I am so fucking glad you got this sponser, you are THE highest quality producer of elden ring lore.

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you brother!

[@Redbeardblondie]

This has to be one of my favorite lore videos of all time. Smoughtown, you and your work are epic.

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you so much! I loved puling this one together!

[@Jar_Fly]

I love that you explain the lore in such detail and take the time to explain every item description and npc dialogues great work people will be coming to this for years to understand and enhance the game 👍

[@OtherMomo]

fun fact, the recipe for soap as well as the materials to craft it can only be found underground. soap as a pick up item as well isnt found above ground. the implication i am making is nobody above ground knows what soap is.

[@CommieApe]

Totally missed the connection between the Black Knives and The Nox as well as the Nox/Numen connection. Stellar work! If I have anything to add I'll edit this comment.

[@SmoughTown]

Look forward to hearing your reflections!

[@cackmed120]

The twined status of Nokstella and Nokron, makes me wonder if the Nameless eternal city rather then being the odd one out, instead has it's own sister city in a similar state. Which if true, could make a interesting place to visit in the DLC.

[@winterbringer1900]

Hey i found your Channel through Ratatoskr Podcast. I watched all your ER-lore videos and i must say your are absolute my favourite lore-tuber so far. Amazing work, detail and quality you provide on your videos and i cant imagine how much work you put on them. Im a pure PvP player, you help me out by understanding this game from the Story, Lore and Symbolism. Keep it up!

[@SmoughTown]

That's Awesome! Glad you found me and enjoy the content!

[@HOHENHEIMSTUDIOS]

I've been watching your stuff for years and again you outdo yourself with some phenomenal lore hunting.

[@SmoughTown]

Really appreciate the long term support!

[@mayhemivory5730]

i disagree on the nature of the eternal cities. we know that astel "once destroyed an eternal city and took away their sky". with astel likely being a vassal of the greater will, i dont see a reason for the greater will to "take away" the punishment. more likely, to me at least, is that the starry sky is like a tool of the eternal city that they use to divine fate. they could no longer see the sky, having been forced to live underground, so they created their own. also on the fingerslayer blade, i feel it is a miss to not mention the mimic tear. its description tells us that the "mimic tears are the result of an attempt by the eternal city to forge a lord". we know the sacred relic sword was made from the body of a true god, so i would reason the fingerslayer blade was likely made from a mimicry of a god. otherwise, what corpse of equivalent quality would you suppose it was made from? important to point out here is the double meaning of "forge". this can mean "to create", as in the process of smithing; but it can also refer to making a counterfeit, as it is used when faking papers.

[@DavidVallner]

Sharing an observation from a friend re: the two moons - note that the full moon texture seems like it has Ranni’s great rune on it. Either the rune is hidden there as some theorize, or the moon is an illusion cast by Ranni same as the 2nd stage of the Rennala boss fight. Either way it makes me lean towards the moons not being as separate as they’re made out to be, but instead aspects of the same outer God, which would fit in with all the followers of the moons cooperating throughout the plot this way. More so if you subscribe to Renna the snow witch being Rennala, which seems to be almost spelled out when the lore for the Ranni’s Dark Moon spell says her mother was her tutor. Maybe Rennala was hiding cold/dark moon sorceries being a part of the Carian traditions from the Academy who would have seen them as too heretical to swallow on top of the uneasy alliance with the full moon that was only brought upon by Sellen and her followers crossing a line by balling up their fellow sorcerers in their graven mass experiments. So Rennala was keeping cold sorcery alive by tutoring her daughter im secret and assuming an alter ego to practice it - possibly even making the Renna doll herself in the first place. In return, Ranni helps maintain the appearance Rennala still has power over the full moon (that Ranni also is able to wield before Radahn’s defeat brings back the dark moon?) even though all she can do is swarm you with mini-mes; while working towards the ultimate goal of the Nox, becoming a Lord of Night.

[@DavidVallner]

another small point of evidence for the two moons being strongly connected is the Carian Regal Scepter that boost specifically “full moon sorceries” - only Rennala’s Full Moon and Ranni’s Dark Moon

[@intalek305]

So I wonder how much of this has to do with why Sellevus wanted to betray Ranni and use her as a puppet. He is clearly Sellian, uses the night sorceries, and is trying to use Ranni.....an empyrean....as a puppet, similar to how the Nox wanted to use the tears to create a Lord. Was he actually trying to complete the long lost mission of the Nox through Ranni? Was he attempting to use Nox science against Ranni to make her a puppet, and their Lord of Night, instead of Queen of the Dark Moon like she wanted? I mean, can you imagine what would go through a Sellian's mind if they knew there was an Empyrean eager to divorce the world from the Golden Order and shed her Empyrean flesh seemingly capable of becoming a Lord or a God with the power of the Two Fingers pre-installed? Seems like the most epic of appropriate donors to me....

[@eveocate]

Thank you very much for this. I've found the Nox intriguing but their influence and overlap with wider civilisation seems so vast as to be more than a little overwhelming, for me. I really appreciate something that collates and explores so much in such a deeply compelling, clear, and gripping way. For a start, I could never have connected the Godskin and the Nox, I admire the case woven for that. My own little list of Nox/Numen mysteries include the Wandering Mausoleums appearing to be based on their architecture, and whether the evergaols are derived from their knowledge or were a precursor civilisation. Given the similarities of Sellia and Ordina, I'm deeply curious about any connection to Miquella (specifically, in the form of St Trina, in my case). While I guess the Black Knife Assassins within Ordina may have been trapped while attempting to find Miquella, the Sellia similarities make me wonder if they're a line of defence. Are the town design and Black Knives just more of Miquella's rag tag bunch of accumulated cultures, or is there active collaboration/exploitation? I'm tentatively leaning towards St Trina representing a connection, or pivot, towards the Nox, night-adjacent concepts, silver, the arcane, and understandings of "immortal essence" after pursuing unalloyed gold "in his youth", but I feel it's fairly tenuous speculation. I just enjoy it. Can't wait to see the next video and be captivated by it too! 💜

[@gomjabbar5785]

Far and away the best elden ring content producer

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks so much!

[@Pizzifrizzo]

If the Albinaurics were created directly by the Nox, there would be several other open questions left: why not one of them can be found in the underground ruins, not even a trace of their passing? Why are they so closely linked to the Carian Royal Family? In the same vein of finding the simplest solution, as you do, I think that Thops' cut line is more likely to mean that the Rite to create the Albinaruics itself is Noxian and that the Carian Royals rediscovered and replicated it, like with the puppet draft. Think about it: it seems clear that the Carian Royal Family somehow considered itself the heirs of the Nox's research, from their delving into puppets, to their moon worship, to the fact that their Preceptors were ordered to keep their mouths shut by Radagon. Radagon wasn't against learning the secrets of the Carians for himself, but it's clear he thought whatever the Preceptors were researching wouldn't be considered acceptable anywhere outside the Carian House. The Carian too seem to be rather matriarchal, given their marriage rites (the Dark Moon Greatsword) and that only Ranni is known as "Lunar Princess", her brothers being merely a Praetor and a General. So the Albinaurics' seeming matriarchy still fits if their a Carian creation, and not a Nox one. Wouldn't it be more likely, then, that the Preceptors discovered the Rite behind the Silver Tears and replicated it to create the Albinaurics, a "bootleg" version of the more advanced (and flawless) Mimics? This would explain why Albinaurics are found in the places of power of the Carian Royal Family: their village is in Liurnia, yes, but it seems the Carian Royals brought their Albinaruic servants along with their courts when they moved around, i.e. to the Carian Mansion, the Volcano Manor and Leyndell (via Radagon and the adopted demigods like Radahn). I'm not counting the Haligtree and the Mohgwyn Palace for obvious reasons. The very name Albinauric suggests their Carian origin to me: it means "White Gold", or "Pale Gold", which to me sounds a lot like a politcally correct way of saying silver. Since the Nox were so reviled, the Carians told something like "Noooo guys, our creations are definetly not Silver Tears! They're not even silver! They're totally gold, just... white! White gold, yes!". Of course, no one really believed them in full (not surpring, given how dogmatic the Golden Order was). The Carians had this trend of balancing between their moon-traditions, the Academy's proclivities and their full-on allegiance to the Golden Order through Radagon's huge clout, despite how much idosyncratic these philisophies actually are, with varying degrees of success.

[@Ikneeslp]

Was going to leave a comment similar but much less eloquent. Instead I’ll just like yours this is exactly what I think.

[@Jack-tg9qm]

This reasoning makes a lot of sense, very well thought out! I agree that the Albinaurics don’t quite fit into being a direct creation of the Nox, but it would make sense, like you said, that they would be a creation of the Carians, who were influenced by the Nox.

[@emilebichelberger7590]

18:50 having a sky is better than a cave roof

[@nehirrogers-sirin592]

Rlly good vid but I think there's one thing you might have missed with regards to the relationship between the numen. There is a lot of evidence that the civilization that mohg now occupies was founded by two races, one of which came from outside the lands between on boats. This is most prominently shown in the murals on the stone spikes that dot the underground ancestral grounds areas. Not sure what this implies, but given what we know about the numen it's possible that the nox are the other race and built the civilization up together, and that rather than rebelling against Marika they were actually rebelling against the dragons and their great sin was what caused their god to flee. Very out there theory but might have some weight

[@Sleeper_6875]

Holy shit the tieback to the godskins was incredible This is truly the most complete video so far on the Nox and their connections

[@loftwingheropon2743]

The underground portions of this game have so many mysteries hidden in them. I think the one im still really curious about the ancestral followers and the ancestral spirits and how they potentially relate to the crucible.

[@miguelrubio4166]

Great video man, you did a thorough and comprehensive breakdown of some complicated stuff. One thing I want to say about the Godskin Apostles and artificial life is that creating artificial lifeforms doesn't seem exclusive to the Nox. The "Uhl" civilization created the claymen (as you already covered) but it seems like the Golden Order also creates lifeforms artificially. The gargoyles don't seem natural and, to me at least, the tree sentinels are not human but a creation of the Erdtree. They are described as "living ramparts" and their halberd says it is difficult for one of mere human strength to wield. And correct me if I'm wrong but do we ever encounter a tree sentinel not on horseback? It would make a nice parallel between the albinauric women riding wolves with armor of silver and tree sentinels riding horses with armor of gold.

[@SorowFame]

It’d be interesting if the horses really did serve the same purpose as the wolves, to allow an artificial life form to move despite non-functioning legs. I really can’t remember any non-mounted tree sentinels and you can’t dismount them like you can many other horse riding foes. It’d also be interesting considering the Albinaurics get.

[@alexspain9103]

I wonder if there's a lineage of creation relating the Claymen, the Mimic Tears, the Nightfolk, and the Albinaurics.

[@igorengel7801]

Could Black Knife Assasins be Sellian? They are "scions" of the Eternal City, which sounds very similar to how Gowry describes Sellians, and Sellia is well-known for it's assasins, so it would be a natural place to recruit a group.

[@dantoki6371]

Yeah, I also doubt that they are directly came from the EC. The word "scion" is there for a reason. Honestly I think there is a possibilty that they've came from Ordina. For one, there is a couple BKs there, but more interestingly the town has the same architecture as Sellia and as far as I remember, these two towns are the only places where the same assets/architecture was used. There's also a decent amount of Eternal City stuff sprinkled around the snow field. (Astel, Dragonkin ghost, lightning spheres, the big rock collums, ancestral worhippers etc.)

[@tinminator8905]

We don't know that they are Scions of the eternal cities. All we know is that Rogier heard stories that they were. This has to be taken with a grain of salt. It is not just straight up confirmed in a world building item description or anything. Many characters in Elden Ring are often mistaken.

[@karldergrosse-333]

@@slzzzzzzzz very very interesting! Thank you.

[@Terminalsanity]

@@dantoki6371 They're not from Ordina the Black Knife Assassins there are guarding the entrance to the Haligtree along side the Albanaurics. They're serving Miquella.

[@Terminalsanity]

@@tinminator8905 Its pretty clear all the items they bare were crafted with night magic which was developed by the eternal cities so yeah its confirmed they have ties to eternal cities. Rogier is not wrong.

[@samlaven582]

Ok so something really interesting to me is the description you talked about for the larval tear. Specifically, it referenced the term “amber egg” being held by rennala. As we know from the amber starlight item, amber is used to change the fate of the gods. Additionally, when we defeat rennala, we receive the great rune of the unborn. In fact, from every shardbearer bossfight, we receive a great rune bearing their name. The only outlier is rennala’s. The great rune of the unborn does not actually belong to rennala, though, but the amber egg that she holds. This means that the egg is indeed a shardbearer itself and, in accordance with all of the other shardbearers, would be a member of the golden lineage. Similar to how mohg uses the cocoon of Miquella to rebirth the formless mother, rennala uses the body of a nameless unborn demigod to birth and rebirth her “sweetings”. The one thing I can’t tell is if this demigod was a child of radagon and rennala, or marika herself.

[@VeganAncientDragonKnight]

Well radagon is marika technically anyways so is definitely marika's

[@e2rqey]

I think you are right about the Godskins being an artifical creation of the Nox. Furthermore I think they are a fusion of the two or more of the other avenues the Nox used in their artificial life experiments. Those being the Silver Tears/albinourics and the Dragons/dragonkin. The combination of these two research paths would explain the physical traits of the godskins(silver tear), while also explaining the eyes of the Godskins (dragons). Its also worth mentioning that the power of both the silver tears and the the dragons are rooted in the special properties of their skin. Also, the Godskins can be found inside Dragon temples. And its known that both the ancient dragons and the silver tears could take on the form of a human as well.

[@battlericky17]

This is perfect, i have some nox city diving to complete on my pirate character today

[@drewjones6454]

More long form vids plz. This is what elden ring needs, the lore is just to deep and its nice to have one video tie it all together.

[@SmoughTown]

More soon dont worry!

[@creativename61]

5:17 I do believe many ants irl use this trick where they essentially turn certain colony members into living food storages. hey it's weird but it works. so unless it says they are infact the queens somewhere in lore. it's pretty unlikely these are the queens as most any colony's on get 1 queen. some allow for more than 1 though.

[@astrid1660]

Bro if a VPN could actually block Invaders that’s the strongest selling point I’ve ever heard

[@jolteontrainer]

Bro, I knew I had to wait a day to see this. This lore is too good.

[@ImarBenIsrael]

I can honestly say after watching all smoughs content on elden ring o still feel his best work and the best lore he broke down is this nox one here . The nox is the most interesting people to me .

[@ziegander]

Incredible lore video, man, you're easily the pre-imminent Elden Ring loremaster, I'd say. Best examination of the Nox and the Eternal Cities out there.

[@cfh23666]

Something about a castle in the sky and a castle underground tickles that little part of my heart reserved for ghibli movies and Robert e Howard’s Conan. When you walk through an underground city and it makes me feel like I’m playing my favorite anti hero in red nails. That’s the moment I felt like, yup, this is an adventure bell cranell.

[@daimpthing]

I don't think those ants are pregnant ants, I think the ants are based on Honeypot ants, who use their own bodies to store food/ liquids.

[@dgalloway107]

Yeah i think if they were queens first it would be wierd(though not unheard of) that theres so many of theb but also Queens are usually bigger than workers or warriors and the non-distended parts of their bodies say worker to me.

[@pritzi101]

I love your videos man, so well researched, so clearly presented and no pretentiousness or put on voices or accents in delivery. Keep it up, I'll watch everything you put out.

[@blackdragonxtra]

The Silver Tears are probably Mercury, given it's importance in alchemy, being liquid at room temperatures, and ability to amalgamate other metals.

[@mitchelllayton3264]

Hey I have played all the souls games and listened to hundreds of hours of lord videos. I must say you produce some of the best videos out there. Vati has some real competition. Keep up the good work man.

[@aranthur]

My current theory about the Albinaurics is that Rennala created them after STUDYING the rites of the Eternal Cities and the Silver Tears, which is why she knows how to use the larva for rebirth later, and also why there is so much importance to Latenna's quest. Before the creation of the new sister in the snowfield church, only Rennala could make new Albinaurics, and she was too far gone to do so at that point It could also explain how Loretta became so fond of the Albinaurics, and why that shield's description claims sorcerers were their greatest enemies. They were once loyal to the Carian royal family and fought alongside them against Raya Lucaria Great vid, btw! Very in depth, and very interesting

[@francescofrancescato1251]

finally, 100% agree with you. Rennala created them (albinaurincs) during the war with the sorcerers and the Cooko's knights.

[@spacesmorgy6820]

Been watching your Elden ring lore videos for awhile now, Even though I’ve gathered most of the Items/weapons in game,your vids really point out all sorts of important details I appreciate. I also watch other lore videos by other KZbinrs,though so far I believe yours are the most easy to remember and understand.

[@one-eyed-dragon]

Very good, but I do not entirely agree with the Claymen theories. Their description as "warped remains" makes me think they were once human, but whatever event changed them. My theory for that could perhaps have been Astel's attack, considering their weapons are made of meteoric shards, and Astel overall seems to have attacked whatever Uhl civilisation that existed rather than the Nox Cities. And perhaps the Second Astel was what caused the third eternal city to collapse. It is also interesting that the bubble sorceries utilise the same sigil as the Night sorceries of Sellia, which doesnt seem to have been a mistake or reuse of assets by Fromsoft, as they could have simply not added it on either the spell icons or the glyphs that appear when you use them. Overall very nice though, i am yet to watch the second half so sorry if you already consider any of these points. Praise Erudition!

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh great shout! 100% could have once been human, I like that! Thanks for watching as always Pawel

[@realcuondaotherside]

Cool thing I found out. If it's related that is. I think Leyndell is taken from the name Lyndal which means linden tree or beautiful. Linden trees in Greek and Roman mythology are a symbol of marital love and fidelity

[@mrsteelfinger]

Considering the storytelling in the environment of Elden Ring, I’d like to point you in the direction of the history of architecture and arts. Especially the architecture seems to lean heavily into to human styles: Roman and Gothic. And of course these are distinctly separated timewise, for the Roman architecture predates the Gothic era. If you take a closer look at two places said to be older than, for instance Limgrave, they seem to be of pretty different architecture styles. The places I mean are the eternal cities and Farum Azula. They resemble in fact the Roman style of building, which can be seen in the round arches in their buildings for instance. The »later« sytle (in human history and in Elden Ring’s lore) look more like buildings of the Gothic era with pointed arches, thus - in my mind - referring to the later human era. While Roman architecture seems to be more stylized, simple and heavier, the Gothic style is fancier with more decoration and sophistication, even statically. Architects of today are still puzzled by the stability of Gothic architecture, while it looks rather light, strongly contrasting the down-to-earth simplistic Roman style, that was already an improvement to earlier architecture, statically that is. I guess, what I’m trying to say is, if you say, the earlier (human) style is used in cities that came before in the timeline of Elden Ring, then it makes sense if you look closer to the architecture of the world the player sees as »today«, it provides further prove of the eternal cities being older than the parts we first wander in. Just a little rambling on a very important part of environmental storytelling that nobody seems to recognise. :-)

[@silenthero2795]

I think that the original location of the twin Eternal Cities was the Consecrated Snowfields. There are many ruins in that barren tundra and the only standing town, Ordina, is occupied by dead Black Knife Assassins and Albinaurics (who are looking for the Haligtree but instead, some ended up underground). There's another "Astel" in one of the tunnels that may have drove the whole population into hiding. To escape, they used the very portal Mogh used, which coincidentally connected underground, and then they started rebuilding. In Elden Ring, some location are named for a purpose. Limgrave, as in "grave for limbs". That is why the vast empty field was named "Consescrated Snowfields" after the Greater Will banished a whole civilization off the Lands Between.

[@mp7vidz-700]

This is so good to listen to I’m on my 2 play through as a astrologer (first save got data corrupted at 225) and I’m currently going through rannis quest and trying to really pay attention to what’s going on

[@okaythen3340]

while i’m hesitant to consider the nox people and the gloam eyed queen and her godskins being allied, or the godskins and GEQ outright originating from the nox, i definitely think there’s merit to it. something that points to a possible connection is the fact that the silver tear in miquella’s haligtree drops the blackflame monk ashes, who was a servant of the godskins. it does seem a bit random, but i do think it’s worth mentioning. on another note, the possible connection between the nox and the godskins can be doubtful as the nox have strong ties to sorcery, while the godskins are shown to exclusively use their black flame. however, the obsidian inlaid within the godslayer’s seal, to me at least, is reminiscent of the black stone of the memory stone, although the memory stone seems to be more lustrous. the weapons of the black knife assassins being purely faith scaling (and being imbued with destined death, something the godskins had a very strong connection to) further dismisses the idea that they couldn’t have had a connection. it shows that the nox are willing to use powers beyond their sorcery. there’s also the gloam eyed queen. “gloam” is another word for dusk (and the GEQ is called the dusk eyed queen in one item description. i think it was the godslayer’s greatsword?) however, i’m unsure if the GEQ’s title is meant to have any non-symbolic connotations. “gloam” implies a transitory stage, likely in her case the one between life and death. but maybe she could have been a temporary lord, one that would serve as a placeholder for the nox’s lord of night, and possibly help bring about that lord by slaying gods. or maybe the GEQ was to become their lord of night, but became unable to after destined death was taken from her by maliketh (and she might have been killed then as well, but it’s really unclear, especially when everything with melina comes into play)

[@ДенисЖолоб-с1ю]

Really adore that full of details and such a complex analysis. 1,5 hours of pure satisfaction and love to elden ring world. Cannot wait to ur next lore video!

[@wiegraf9009]

I don't know if you covered this on another video but the destruction of Sellia by the Scarlet Rot seems part of a long term conflict between the Nox and the Scarlet Rot to me. The Blind Swordsman who defeated the god of the Scarlet Rot and sealed it in the Lake of Rot until Malenia's birth was most likely taught their "flowing" style by the Nox and obviously was very long lived like the Numen. They may have been a Nox themself with their white hair and eye covering that is reminiscent of the high ranking Nox women. The Scarlet Rot lake is also close to one of the Eternal Cities and would have been a threat to it. In the end the Scarlet Rot destroying Sellia by way of the blind swordsman's pupil feels like a cruel joke and form of revenge by the Scarlet Rot god.

[@kaspersaldell]

Another absolute banger of a video, and I haven't even started watching it yet

[@sickeningprism9871]

Something of note I felt was worth mentioning - another detail I thought supported your theory that the cities of the night were a matriarchal one, is the very track that plays while you are exploring the depths of these cities. It is an audience of feminine voices - a choir, singing an eerie melody. At least, that's how I imagine that track serves the area.

[@efjay3183]

I don’t know if you’ve mentioned it, but ”Albinauric” essentially means ”white gold”. Which can be thought of as silver.

[@SorowFame]

Or platinum

[@shankyu1985]

I believe there may be some sort of missed connection between the dragon knights and the albinaurics. Both grow abnormally large and don't have use of their legs. Add to this there are spiritual forms of the dragon knight guarding the consecrated snowfield, home of the albinaurics who seek refuge near the halagtree. There's gotta be some connection there. Another link to consider may be between miquella and the nox. Ordina seems to take inspiration from sellia. It has similar seals and a similar way to remove them. Also there is a lesser version of astel in a mine nearby. Perhaps miquella was trying to revive the glory of the nox in a way or at least rook inspiration from them. Along that line of thinking, what if the noble that turns into the runebear isn't a nox spy but a miquellan one. It wields a golden sword similar to the nobles found in the consecrated snowfield where consequently runebears can also be located. Oh and also the black knife assassin in the evergoal there. It and the one in sage cave are the only ones who can turn invisible. Is it jailed there by miquella as punishment for his brothers murder? Or I think more likely was she enlisted as a guard along with the albinauric archers to guard the entrance to the halagtree? What link is there between the black knives and miquella then. Perhaps he had a hand in his brother's murder. Also what if rannis dark moon is the black moon of the nox? If astel took the sky from the eternal city then the moon would have been left without any to guide. Perhaps not destroyed just claimed by or bestowed upon a new wielder. A new follower. She does eventually bring about the age of night which is very similar to the age of stars. Perhaps the dark moon is the combination of the nox black moon and rennalas white moon. Perhaps miquella and ranni worked together with merika to purge the world of the greater will. They all had reason to separate the lands between from the influence of the outer gods. Miquella for his sister. Merika for autonomy of her own body. And ranni for her beliefs that the direct influence of the outer gods and the greater will were stifling mankind's progress (this is my interpretation of her ending and goals). I believe ranni sought to remove the influence of the gods from directly interacting with the lands between and would continue after her ending to place her throne in the void among the stars away from the lands between. I feel like there is definitely something sinister or innocuous about miquella. From everything we see and are given he is adored and attracts the rejects and outcasts of the golden order society but everything we read about him could be colored for that exact reason. We get no text that is first hand. No words of his own. Only the accounts of his adoring subjects and adherents. It is claimed he created unalloyed gold to cure his sister. But it also has the effect of bewitching others. Is his sister also under this bewitching effect? I think so. I think she is merely a means to an end. Her affliction an excuse to sew her flesh with this tool of manipulation and simultaneously erase a barrier to his new order while gaining an undefeated bodyguard. His true goal? To usurp the outer gods and take their place as the one ruling power over the lands between. His unalloyed gold cuts off their influence and replaces it with his own. The only reason it doesn't completely cure the rot is because if it did melania would no longer need him. He's keeping her perpetually tied to his side with a carrot on a stick. We see it's perfectly able to sever the ties of an outer God as it removes the influence of the frenzied flame. So why not rot? Cuz he doesn't want it to. Millicent feels it's influence immediately on inserting it and removes it later because she feels it is changing her into something she is not. Perhaps inflicting it's will upon her. We see the halagtree rotting and melanias rot run rampant without miquellas influence to hold it in check. I believe that it is somehow part of miquellas plan to get captured by mogh. How else would mogh get in, get past melania and leave with the cocoon. To what end I am entirely unsure. Perhaps he foresaw that the player would bring a new order before he was able to complete his transformation and sought to be sequestered elsewhere. Perhaps using mogh and the power of his blood to quicken the transformation. In short I believe miquella and not merika is the true puppetmaster. Orchestrating his brothers murder. The fall of the erdtree and perhaps even the moghwin dynasty. Playing the player to remove all obstacles to his ascension. Rannis ending would be the one Canon ending removing her and you from the picture by virtue of her own ideals and possibly miquellas manipulation. On an entirely separate note, what of the minotaur forest people above ground and their spiritual brethren below. There's very similar statues and architecture around them. Could the ancient culture the Nox built their eternal cities upon below ground have extended above?

[@Dave-qz4ov]

Really love these long form lore videos. Soooo much info thanks!

[@InvisiblePon3]

As a comment on priestesses head attire - it reminds me of crown of Egyptian pharaohs. It consisted of two pieces - one represented Pharaoh's rule over Lower Egypt and another of the Higher Egypt. The same symbolism can apply here, which supports your idea of their headwear representing two cities.

[@cwill14]

I'll post my write-up that Marika is in fact who they call the Dusk-Eyed/Gloam-Eyed Queen: I believe Queen Marika is the Dusk-Eyed Queen. It really makes us work for it though and in true From fashion, uses other names and titles to throw us off a direct, linear understanding right away. - Red and black spike of death impales Marika and keeps her in place when we find her at the end. Only Maliketh wields this power and only he could even defeat a God like Marika. But he's so loyal to her, why would he? - Maliketh "defeated" the Dusk-Eyed Queen, we know Shadowbound hounds have to attack their former master if The Greater Will feels like the Empyrean is acting against It. We play through this reality with Ranni's quest and both she and Iji know Blaidd will go mad. How do they know this happens? They saw/heard of it happening to Maliketh and Marika already. - Beast Eye is a purple, scratched up eye. It's Marika's eye from being defeated and imprisoned by her Shadowbound. No other Queen or Empyrean is "defeated" but not slain, as the text implies there except Marika. And who but her purpose-made hound could even stop her, a God? - No other characters are named as Queen or Empyrean that aren't already accounted for/ruled out to be the DEQ (Dusk-Eyed Queen) and by that I mean Melina, she was given purpose by her mother at the foot of the Erdtree and that means she is a daughter of Marika, not old enough to be the DEQ but possesses traits of both Marika and Radagon. Eye color, hair color are passed down traits we see in game, well sure enough Melina shows us a purple/gloamy eye in one ending. Inherited trait from her mother, the Queen. - Duskborn ending sees Godwyn rise to ascendancy and sees Death restored, with him as the Prince of Death itself. These titles aren't meaningless. Duskborn? The "Prince" of Death? Well who would the Queen be? If Godwyn is Duskborn, and if he is a Prince, his mother would of course be associated with "Dusk" and be a Queen. And we know his mother is Queen Marika. - Fia is hooded with a black cloak and comes from some other land, she also helps create Godwyn's Duskborn ending and is Death-aligned. We see Marika wearing black hooded garb in a statue where also is holding the twins Miquella and Malenia. Her tattered clothing as we find her at the end is also black. She is also associated with the Nox/Numen race and the Black Knife Assassins that come from there as well. - Statues of Marika in her crucified pose all show her with a flowing black cloth that wraps behind her in almost the exact same shape as the Godslayer Greatsword, which was the weapon or ritual sword of the GEQ/DEQ. You have to pivot the camera a bit to get a good view but the shape is very similar. Coiled and then open, with one flap slightly longer than the other, same tip design on the Godslayer Greatsword. - Hewg prays to Queen Marika about his given task to craft a Godslaying weapon. Very interesting and specific task. Marika wants a God Slain. Godskins certainly take an interest in that. Who was their leader? A "defeated" Queen who was once an Empyrean. Marika. - Marika learned the secrets of the Golden Order and realized her children would "amount only to sacrifices" as she instructs them. She knew the Erdtree was a soul parasite and by sealing Death away, she weakens the Erdtree over time. She also had Godwyn buried at the roots of it, knowing that he would grow and overtake them, choking the Erdtree further. As he was, Godwyn was an "unwanted" child since he embodied the Golden Order and she was a prisoner to it. He would end up far more useful to her as a soulless demigod who becomes the Prince of Death, not a "leal hound of the Golden Order" as she laments that Radagon would also be later. She was likely opposed to the Erdtree and Greater Will/Fingers for a long time, weaving plots in secret until the Shattering.

[@Acrobuster]

Nice! A Nox was my first cosplay build in Elden Ring. Fun time, they're so cool!

[@joaofaria7404]

Amazing video! Best Eternal City lore video out there by far! Congratulations! Btw Smough, what your thoughts about the theory that Radagon is a artificial lord created by Marika (similar to Asimir in the cut content)?

[@SmoughTown]

Hadn't heard that one! Will take a look, cheers!

[@ziegander]

@@SmoughTown possible lead in an unlikely, overlooked place. The Mimic's Veil, also called Marika's Mischief. If you consider the possibility that Marika herself has been at her own centuries-long alchemical pursuit that perhaps Radagon and even Ranni, Malenia, and Miquella all play a part in, I think all of the alchemical evidence you've linked to the Nox, and how the Nox relate to the Numen, and of course everything surrounding the Silver Tears and the Mimic Tear, I think it's very suspicious that Marika not only has and obviously used an item called the Mimic's Veil, but also that the Silver Tears themselves intended goal was to become a Lord. Radagon himself seems to come out of nowhere, serve his purpose in Liurnia, and then becomes Elden Lord, after all.

[@Thealchemyoflife]

Know what's always confused me (among many things in this lore)? In game it's said that Rennala "discovered" the Full Moon, and that Ranni "discovered" the Dark Moon. These things in game are MASSIVE in the sky, and kinda hard to miss... so what are they suggesting? Ranni, and her mother left The Lands Between at some point, and returned with the moons in tow?

[@davidpower5710]

I really love your lore videos , it makes the lore so much more clear and your voice is amazing

[@SmoughTown]

I'm really glad you enjoy the content...and my voice haha!

[@deogracias9869]

I prefer this video a million times over all the vids of people complaining about Elden rings lore and saying it's unfinished or impossible to find out, the story is there you just need to look harder. You put a lot of work into this and it shows, great job!

[@oscarcordero7811]

The Albinauric Weapons are shaped like moons and their female archers wear silver armor that is related to the eternal city’s and in the Albinaurics village their is a cut dialogue in where a Albinauric prays for the Lord of Night and the moon and stars to avenge them

[@abigcupofwater]

I started using the great curved club the other day, I was wondering why it exists at all. Never considered it was supposed to look like the moon.

[@meh.5645]

This may be purely a coincidence, but it's worth noting the two occupied chair-crypts are located in the cities that have a false night. The location of the Nokron chair-crypt is even known as "Night's Sacred Ground", so I think it's possible that the Nox used these to somehow create their eternal night. It conflicts with the idea that the greater will created the night to mock them, but I don't think that's true, since Astel's rememberance said it "took away their sky". This wording implies, at least to me, that taking their false night from them is part of their punishment. As for why the Nox would do this, well, it's possibly a way to artificially change fate. If the stars control fate, could it be possible that artificially created stars could do the same? This is heavy speculation anyways, and there's nothing to confirm it, but I think it's an interesting possibility for what purpose the chair-crypts could have had.

[@mickeycee8559]

Hell yea man love these long lore videos. Your the best!!

[@xxbabayagaxx1425]

I noticed that the nameless eternal city is located right under leyndell, if you map the big tree stump/trunk you find there it shows up roughly under the erdtree sanctuary. It seems like the capital was intentionally founded on top of the site of the nameless cities destruction, especially if you take into account your thoughts on the nature of the night which surrounds Nokron and Nokstella! I hadn't thought about it, but if the greater will was heaping misery on misery founding their new age of gold on the corpse of the city seems like a pretty f-u move. Thank you for putting together this video, your ability to plan out topics and introduce them in an intelligible way makes my english major heart sing

[@SorowFame]

Considering the Greater Will seems to take centuries to contact I doubt it was responsible for Leyndell being built over the top of the Nameless Eternal City directly. If it was deliberate it was probably the choice of the Fingers or Marika

[@xxbabayagaxx1425]

@@SorowFame That's a really good point -- I'm still trying to wrap my head around Marika so her motivations are the hardest to figure out, especially how it's related to the fingers and finger maidens. I noticed a theme of recursion running through the game and I have a theory that the Erdtree (as opposed to the Great Tree) was made by Marika in a similar way to how Miquella made the Haligtree.