Elden Ring Lore - The Thorn Sorcerers & The Blood Star

What is the Blood Star, and who are the Thorn Sorcerers who sacrifice lives and blood to use its power?
@ZullietheWitch just put out a video confirming a lot of our thoughts on Alberich. check it out here! • Elden Ring - The risks...
Become a member of the channel for early access to our videos!
/ @square-table-gaming
www.artpal.com/PatGee/
Check out the Elden Ring art being created by Pat Gee who works on our Thumbnails! These prints make amazing gifts for Elden Ring fans.
We have merch! Check out our store: spreadshop-admin.spreadshirt....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Follow us on Social Media
Facebook: / squaretablegaming1
Twitter: / squaretableyt
Instagram: / squaretablegaming
Twitch: / squaretablegamingyt
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[@Nemo12417]

The Prince of Death's Staff is called out as being looked down upon by the Academy specifically because it uses faith, so that is something it has in common with Thorn Sorceries.

[@epiccthulu]

11:27 Finally!!! Finally!!!!! I’ve been trying to tell people this for so long! Alberich could’ve been on his way to becoming a primeval sorcerer. As for Mogh? I think he saw the mother the moment his horn gouged his own eye

[@square-table-gaming]

That's a very cool idea considering how Thorn sorcerer's only see the blood star after their eyes are gouged

[@thenobody7509]

I like the idea that the formless mother and the blood star are the same thing. After all the outer gods come from outerspace which makes them more akin to eldritch horrors

[@titaniumteddybear]

It is a definite possibility that the Formless Mother is the Blood Star. Thank you. I also think it's fascinating how so many outer gods chose to manifest their power in the form of fire, to signal that they are opposed to the Erdtree. Blood Flame, Black Flame, The Flame of Ruin, The Flame of Frenzy, and all the others. The symbolism is clear but the devs have so much variety in how "fire" is defined that it never feels repetitive.

[@dolphinpower1107]

This is further enforced through the DLC with Mesmar possibly having another type of heretical flame or tied in with another fire.

[@darklordauron]

I had a theory that the Fire Giant's Fell God and the Formless Mother were a duality. Either one deity with two forms or two deities that act as one. Since duality makes repeated appearances throughout Elden Ring, it would work with the theme. Then there is also the frenzied flame. Something some that are blind might see as a star. Perhaps the Fell God and Formless Mother are the first gods to form after the time when all was one. That the Frenzied Flame we see is an illusion, a call back to that primeval form, and the Fell God and Formless mother are the sibling gods made from the first sundering.

[@thenewplantationisinyourmind]

They kinda mirror The union of Radagon and Renala. Sorcery, albeit powered by faith, and actual faith incantations. The Light of the Haligtree and the Moon, the Light of the Ruinous Flame and the Bloody Star. They also, in my eyes, are a proto Blood Flame, I like to think that the bloodthorn sorcerers would have gone to the realm of Moghwyn if they could have had access to the Hidden Path of the Haligtree. But instead of finding kinship through bloodshed with the sanguine nobles, they found kinship through exile with the Fire Monks.

[@DanMan7308]

I noticed that the Gelmir Staff (which boosts magma sorceries and is found in Volcano Manor) is distinguished by its red glintstones. The Blasphemous Blade also has two red glintstones on its hilt and interestingly enough the Ash of War Taker’s Flame resembles magma shooting out of the ground rather than a straight beam of fire (like vacuum slice shooting wind). Even though the Fire Monks, Thorn Sisters, and Rykard are separate factions, it’s interesting to see how red glintstones are applied with each of them.

[@TiberiusRex182]

I really didnt think it was a debate that the Formless Mother, i dont know if she IS THE Blood Star, but i think the Blood Star is either her origin or her vision for the future.

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

formless oedon?!

[@the1384]

The Blood Star is the God and the Formless Mother is its envoy

[@Night-Lord]

@@the1384 that seems backwards since stars usually come in the form of a massive creatures like the Elden Beast. The Formless Mother may be more akin to the Greater Will and the Blood Star would be like her equivalent to the Elden Beast

[@Charnel_Heart]

There's a vital environmental hint that connects the thorn sorcerers to the Formless Mother. The dead and frozen giants found near the thorn sorcerers in the mountaintop are impaled by massive Thorns with a trident-like crown on top. I posit that the Mohgwyn sigil isn't based off of Mohg's trident. Mohg's trident is modeled after this natural result of the formless mother's power.

[@DemonicMop]

I really really hope they expand on this more in the dlc, having more thorn sorceries would be sick because right now making a build centered around them is pretty difficult (same with a lot of spells that have small categories)

[@retlr_]

your wish has been granted

[@coatguy2990]

making a build around it truly is hard. considering you need to level INT, Faith and Arcane it only really allows for a hyperoffensive build on SL 150

[@geraltgrey-mane695]

Glad to be part of the 14% :D Come on guys!

[@j3fr0uk]

Never been a fan of beggin lmao. They're makin money, why they gotta be greedy? No respect to you the viewer...

[@DreyfusLagoon]

@@j3fr0ukyou sound like the kinda person who doesn’t tip their server

[@38Jim]

Yes. Come on guys.

[@geraltgrey-mane695]

@@38Jim first, 😂 haha. Second, sure if you are into that. I wont judge =]

[@RetroVideoGamer23]

@@DreyfusLagoonhe definitely doesn’t tip

[@nightowlmystic9387]

Red glinstone is made from the sacrifices which makes the blue glinstone red. It makes sense why the academy of Raya Lucaria hates it. The idea that glimpsing into the stars that requires faith and faith only is what makes them despise the thorn sorcery.

[@AegisKHAOS]

Happy you are still making these ER lore vids. People like me are too busy trying to survive the game to really pay enough attention to those details.

[@user-rg4bo4mi9c]

i really hope that outer gods are expanded on in the dlc

[@Znewts]

Just a side note, Red Glintstone also sounds like Fred Flintstone and I'm for it.

[@arglebargle42]

The more I look at it glintstone of all kinds seems to come from madness, that the capturing of the essence of the energy involves a frightful revelation or descent into desperate suffering. As if somehow the suffering is what crystalizes the energy into a coherent form. Could there have been glintstone made from soulflame back when the Death Rite Birds raked the bones of heroes?

[@Nurkomusic]

Can you do the slow putrid mummy like beings that walk around and grab you? The ones on the beach at the weeping peninsula, the ones that spout poison at you at the shaded castle, the ones that have the magic damage that roam the hills in raya lucaria? Dont know anything about those. They kinda look like the claymen but I think they’re separate

[@swordam1063]

Very excited to learn about a part of the lore i know absolutely nothing about

[@jayburns8224]

Couldn't help but hear Fred Flintstone over and over 😂

[@PilotAdventurer]

Thank you for making this video. I remember talking about my theories about the Blood Star during your video about Sorceress Sellen.

[@meer2690]

I had a briar executionar and thorn caster build right before this video, what a coincidence lol

[@lofimusicandliminalspaces3908]

After seeing the DLC trailer I’m 85% convinced that Messmer may be the bloodstar

[@Zer0Dakilla]

Just subbed, loving the lore! Plus your voice melds really well with the ambient music.

[@square-table-gaming]

Welcome aboard!

[@robhousehold]

This one is my Most favorite theory / dive in yet! So interesting

[@xpatrstarx]

I hope that fromsoft flesh out concepts like the formless mother and sleep with the dlc

[@adaptr2103]

i wouldnt mind a revisit on older lore videos since the quality has risen so high .

[@square-table-gaming]

We have updated scripts for the first 6 or so videos in our year 1 compilation. Are you thinking updated footage? Maybe full blown revisits based on how much research we've done at this point?

[@laserduck6149]

Never thought about it this way but it makes so much sense!

[@coatguy2990]

So the loss of vision is a catalyst to forming connections with outer gods it seems. Or something related to vision in general. Shabriri had his eyes gouged out - frenzy flame. Hyetta is seemingly similar. A blind maid. The blood Star is revealed to sinners who lost their sight. Mogh lost one eye due to his horns, standing in connection with the formless mother as of now. Then we have astel and the falling star beasts who both have this giant eye in the middle of their forehead. And I don’t even know if there’s an outer god of the deep cosmos.

[@drakmendoa]

Maybe there is also a connection to the Dominula Cult, as they are also all covered with thorns and the Fire's Deadly Sin incantation can be found at their village (even if it is most likely there because they trapped the prophet from whom this incantation originates). So maybe the formless mother is also trying to convert the Godskin cult as long as they are weakened and separated from their former power with the sealing of destined death.

[@momzilla2010]

dude. one of your BEST videos yet.

[@square-table-gaming]

Thank you!

[@rwberger6]

Related to the exiled prophets forced to wear thorns, the reason why prophets in the lands between wear restraints of various kinds as decoration is because its meant to mockingly mark them as sinners for prophesizing the burning of the erdtree.

[@GODE-ot9pu]

So the 3 faith/int required spells are thorn sorcery, death sorcery, and Order incantations… kinda makes me wanna actually use them in a play through

[@colobolo7532]

What about magma sorceries? Also I'm pretty sure thorn sorceries require no intelligence, scaling only in faith.

[@GODE-ot9pu]

@@colobolo7532 you’re so right I forgot abt magma :D

[@the1384]

Its makes Sense that the Blood Star and the Formless Mother are Connected. Its always 2 Beings an Outer God and its Envoy. Some Things i want to Point out is that Albrich was part of the Round Table meaning that Thorn Sorcery was invented by them at the beginning. The so called Gardner Statue is a Burned Figure maybe that the Priest who enacted the First Cardinal Sin. Radagon has Red Hair and used Thorns to Block the Entrance... I see a connection there. Maybe Radagon was created using Marikas Blood and the Thorns coming from the Erdtree 🤔 We know Miquellas Blood has Special Powers so why not Marikas Blood also

[@cameronhollingshead5310]

I believe the relationship of the formless mother is more akin to that of the greater will and elden beast. I believe the formless mother uses the blood star as an envoy communicating on her behalf. I also believe the blood star is the cause of the bloodsoaked madness in the east. The formless mother sends her star to communicate with the cursed and those who only see darkness. But when blood is more powerful like the omen then she can physically impose her presence upon it.

[@YATZIwastaken]

The more you guys explore the gods aspect the more questions i end up having. What's the power tier list? The formless mother is clearly powerful as we can see the power that mogh has from her teachings, but she needs to use puppets like mohg and sorcerers to get a foothold in the lands between. Meanwhile, other cosmic powers like astal came here on its own strength so does that mean its stronger than the formless mother. Then Radahn was able to hold back the stars and prevent creatures like astal from arriving (i cant remember how radahn learnt his gravity magic so i might of missed something in this) which stands to say that Radahn is therefore more powerful than Astal and because of that more powerful than the formless mother. Then Melania although her combat abilities couldn't best Radahn her god-like power was able to cripple him so that would imply that the goddess of rot is more powerful than everyone else so far mentioned. But the original goddess of rot was defeated by the blind swordsman who we assume was human, so its rough for me at least to go who is strong and who is weak because some of these battles seem like major upsets. The other part is the role of god skin apostles, the skins they carry are these from gods that we never got to meet because they were already dead? Are the apostles actually protecting the world by killing off gods which is why the formless mother sends minions rather than come in person. How powerful are the apostles in reality if they kill gods? Are they more powerful than the demigods? and if so how come none came to hunt down melania and put down the goddess of rot

[@erickarl3982]

I wish there was more thorn spells

[@Fingledoodler]

This is awesome. I didn't even think of this before as I like the connection to the formless mother a lot. I also hope the others can subscribe so you guys can keep creating for a long time. Such easily digestible content presented in a great way.

[@thorjustenborg5504]

Amazing video! Once again! I have seen almost every single video you made about elden ring lore! And then i was thinking about the gloam eyed queen! Have you ore will you make a video about her? 🙏 if you haven’t plizz do it one day! 🙏❤️

[@square-table-gaming]

Gloam Eyed Queen is tough. There's very little concrete info and better lore channels than me have already fleshed her out really well. I could throw in my 2 cents but im not sure how different/original it would be.

[@thorjustenborg5504]

@@square-table-gaming i totally get that! 🙏 but I can only say, I would love it! Since she is a “secret” character there isn’t much info about… I really like and would love to know more about! 😅 And channel wise I can only say, that I think that your channel is the better one!🙏 really looove how you make the videos! So a video about her would be great! Even just to hear your version on her! Even if it’s a short video 😅🙏🙈

[@tevinstrachan1421]

Got to play both sides so no matter what happens you come out with a win. The Omen demigod who wished to form a dynasty of his own. The faithful fire monks, driven into a corner after being pushed back. A tarnished, capable of being a lord, who desired power of the glinstone.

[@Archer-1453]

Always theorised that the Blood Star functions similar to/is opposite side of the same coin as the Primeval Current that fuels sorceries. Unlike the other blood-related spells, aberrant sorceries are just that, they’re methodical executions rather than miraculous outpourings of power. And unlike the blood incantations they must use the caster’s own blood to function. When using Bloodflame Talons or Blood Boon, it’s explicit that the flaming blood is from an outside source, the Formless Mother. Also, no other faith-based items or spells mention the explicit use of Glintstone, while Aberrant Sorceries get a boost from the red glintstones in Alberich’s set. Another facet to this is the similarity in how witnessing the Primeval Current, as Lusat and Azur did, causes the witness to slowly lose their vision and then become glintstones themselves.

[@Rufus555]

I always though you got thorn sorceries if you mixed your regular faith with your blood - corrupting it.

[@cyber5345]

always thought it was interesting that sewer Mohg guards an Erdtree Favor talisman. Was he given this by Marika? or was it stolen?

[@thesavagery6696]

I wonder if the thorn sorcerer's are connected to the gloam eyed Queen who weilded the Black Flame

[@square-table-gaming]

I would assume no mostly because the black flame monks are said to be defectors from the red flame monks. This means the two factions would likely stand in opposition to each other.

[@thesavagery6696]

@@square-table-gaming oh ok that makes sense I was all getting happy thinking the blood star was the gloam eyed queen in another form lol

[@NuevoExistence]

The links to the flame of frenzy or the fell god are too many, it has to be one of them in my opinion! The formless mother is all about blood Edit: A sort of mashup of the formless mother and fell god perhaps?!

[@adamsirin7249]

Well..... the elden beast is the 'star' envoy of the greater will. The Blood star might be the envoy of the formless mother.

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

If the Fire Monks are taking inspiration from the Thorn Sorcerers, they soon may be corrupted.

[@kyledevries7085]

Dope video

[@cyber5345]

Miquella waters the Haligtree with his blood. So it seems blood has some kind of power in this universe. Also, in a land where bodies are buried at the erdtree and reborn. wouldnt blood eventually become somewhat of a scarce or sacred substance?

[@lexmortis5722]

The prophecy of the erdtree burning is the verse that melina recites when she kindles the forge of giants. Its not a prophecy of the formless mother or the blood star. Red glintstone seems to appear from blood, without normal glintstone being required, as the staff of the guilty says.

[@square-table-gaming]

I believe that's the same thing we're saying here. These profits saw the prophecy of the Erdtree burning and were banished. They became Thorn sorcerers after having their site taken from them and witnessing The blood star

[@guilhermenaldis]

since they are blind, the red star may be the sun itself

[@arandomfan4710]

This makes me wonder about purple glintstone. We know it's connected to gravity and the Onyx and Alabaster lords, but why does Its color change unlike the other glintstone colors. Red glintstone Is red due to the practice of blood and sacrifice. blue and green seem to be the standard, so why Is there purple glintstone and what does It mean?

[@square-table-gaming]

It seems to be due to the innate gravity magic of the alabaster lords as they themselves come from the stars

[@JC-eo2qe]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD STAR SKULLS FOR THE SKULL UNIVERSE

[@alexandermorgan5958]

I still think the Shield of the Guilty ties into this somehow.

[@square-table-gaming]

The description tells us it's showing a maiden whose eyes were crushed by briars of sin, implying the thorn sorcerers already existed and we're the ones to kill her.

[@AynenMakino]

Are there any depictions or mentions of Albrich in the Accademy? Was he a tutor there at any point?

[@square-table-gaming]

Unfortunately there is not. The only tie we have is his knowledge of cold sorcery

[@AynenMakino]

@@square-table-gaming So, the only way to learn glintstone magic is through the Accademy. And that accademy must have thus had him at least as a student. If their student went so significantly rogue that he had to be bannished, both by the accademy and by the greatest religion of the land, wouldn't they make mention of that?

[@square-table-gaming]

@@AynenMakino probably not if they considered it shameful. Better to just label him a heretic and be done with him.

[@AynenMakino]

@@square-table-gaming I did find it interesting that even the Accademy does occasionally speak of 'herecy'. A religious concept. Radagon's influence, perhaps.

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

i wonder how many times the erdtree has been burned

[@SentinalhMC]

At least once judging by all the ash that's already in Leyndell before we do it.

[@andresleung8134]

❤

[@theprodigalson4003]

The who and the what now *elden ring hides it’s story so I have no idea who they are*

[@jacobgilbreath6704]

I was always of the opinion that the Elden ring and even the erdtree where here before the greater will, as the time before the golden order still had both, the greater will is just another outer god trying to exert influence on what doesn't truly belong to it.

[@square-table-gaming]

The Erdtree and Elden Ring are directly connected to the greater will. Both existed in the time of Placidusax, the first Elden Lord. Before that we have no recorded history of the lands between.

[@jacobgilbreath6704]

@@square-table-gaming that is what I am referring to, the time of the dragons was an order that worshipped a god other than the greater will, and both the Elden ring and the erdtree were in a more primal state, a crucible of life unshackled, and then the greater will had this dragon god driven out, and restructured both the tree and the ring to fit its visions of stagnant order, and now what were once seen as natural blessings of the tree itself, are now seen as reviled deformities, the greater will did not originally own the erdtree or the Elden ring, it took them for it self, and changed them to its own liking.

[@michaelbaumhoff1459]

Hopefully I make 15%

[@ruperthart5190]

Shouldn't there be friction between the thorn sorcerers and the fire monks given that they worship different gods? And I think it makes more sense that the sorcerers saw a real vision of the future and were banished because it was blasphemous, and then the formless mother took advantage of this situation, rather than her providing them with the visions.

[@square-table-gaming]

Either way, the visions of fire likely endeared them to the fire monks. Even if they worshipped different deities, they'd want to keep them close in case they had more visions of flame

[@MrSmido1]

14%? Blasphemy

[@square-table-gaming]

Presumably that's not so bad haha