Electric Bike Suspension | Full Suspension vs Hardtail

[@401web]

I know this is 2 years since posting your video but thanks for all the great perspectives. I was going to sell my rigid frame ebike but now I think I'll just throw a good suspension seat on it.. wider tires and keep on truckn! Thanks Chris!

[@lennardarmee9287]

This video is really giving me all the information I was looking for - but so much better at 1.25 play speed XD

[@roddunne]

One nuance on rear suspension choices is about fenders/rear racks if thats a necessity (city riding / rainy commuting). The better brands (such as the R&M bikes in your video) do offer great fenders & racks that can accommodate the rear suspension - i.e. they are made with the mounting points / handle the rear triangle movement in mind. However, I have a cheap generic full suspension ebike (a cheap commuter with wider tyres) and have been through 3 different rear fenders (all with weak water protection) which need some bodge fixes / clamping to work around lack of mounting points. Finding a generic rear rack is proving a challenge (going with a seatpost attached bag for now) as the rear suspension affects the mounting point locations - meaning a generic rack likely won't fit. Definitely worth getting a bike with the proven fender/rack installed from the get go if you think you'll need it. Or in my case, I'd have gone with a hardtail & suspension seatpost to give me a wider range choice on racks and fenders.

[@Propelbikes]

I totally agree. In the early days of Propel we used to convert eMtBs to commuter bikes all the time until R&M came along and offered the complete package. It makes a big difference.

[@christill]

It’s a really complicated topic. For me, I definitely find my R&M Delite to be the most comfortable and confidence inspiring bike I have, and I can ride it on pretty rough off-road terrain which I don’t do with my other bikes. And that’s due to that full suspension and those wider tyres. I find my upright Dutch bike to be way more comfortable than you would think. Basically as comfortable as the Delite despite no suspension and narrower tyres. I think the upright position makes a difference for me. But it’s not an entirely fair comparison because I changed the seat for an Ergon ST Core Prime. That saddle is so unbelievably comfortable. It’s worth the price. And the Brompton sometimes makes me feel quite vulnerable and nervous in traffic. When I’m indicating with my right hand and riding one handed over a speed bump it’s not at all confidence inspiring and I’m a pretty experienced rider. I think it depends, but the main thing is to dispel the myth that full suspension on road is never necessary, which is ridiculous. It goes back to this issue of societies not treating bicycles as vehicles.

[@Propelbikes]

Always appreciate your comments Chris! I totally agree. That ST Core is really great too!

[@mauibuilder1239]

Thank you Chris for the informative video. Based on my experience, your perspective is spot on. I went all in with the Riese and Muller Superdelite HS GX with Rohloff carbon belt drive and Fox upgrade and it is a dream to ride and very versatile in multiple terrain situations. The bike is lower maintenance and makes me want to get out and ride and explore new roads and trails.

[@Propelbikes]

Awesome! Love this! That Superdelite combo is our most popular in the shop as well.

[@thejose24]

Full suspension is always ideal. Just brings it way over people's budget. I would've gotten one if I had another $1K to burn. Great video as always, Chris.

[@Propelbikes]

Great point for sure! I tend to agree here, but it’s definitely nice to have

[@paulwinter-storyteller3083]

Thanks. Very informative. Wish I had an R&M dealership near where I live in the UK.

[@Propelbikes]

Thank you Paul!

[@outfoxthefox]

Paul Winter - Storyteller So do I Paul, I travel to Worcester to OnBike for mine, worth it for me. The best service going, I’m on my fifth bike from them. Shows how good they are for me.

[@boblydecker]

Very informative. I look forward to Propel videos.

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks! I hope we start publishing more often. We had a little lul as we adjusted to more changes as a result of COVID, but we’re getting back into the groove. Lots of new videos to come.

[@alexanderwang7451]

For people who feel Riese & Muller are a bit over their budget, I'd suggest looking into the collection of FS (Full Suspension) bikes from Moustache. I own a Moustache Friday FS and I chose it over test riding a R&M with full suspension. For basic commuting, I suggest the Moustache. Where you would experience the most difference when riding electric bikes is the assist that the motor gives. The Moustache has the Bosch Performance line motor which is the same as the majority of motors that R&M equips on their bikes. As for suspension, my Friday FS comes with coil spring front fork and a custom rear air shock suspension developed in house by Moustache specifically for their bikes. With a 4k difference in price, I'd pick the Friday FS without any hesitation. I've done 500 miles over 2 months and there has been no issue with any part of the bike! However, if I'm considering belt drive and internal shifting (definitely will eventually), then R&M is the way to go.

[@r4z0r1]

Having both the Charger and Delite I can say, both are great 😉👍 What I really like with the Charger is this super stiff ride. Delite is more comfortable on rough terrain but can also make you feel a bit distanced to the road.

[@Propelbikes]

Excellent feedback! Thanks for sharing your experience

[@jttaylor7242]

Full Suspension would love one but Riese Muller don't do a 43cm yet will just have to wait nice video again Chris

[@Propelbikes]

That would be really nice. Although a 43cm with a suspension post has the same effective lowest seat length as a 49cm frame without a suspension post. So it really depends.

[@RB-sr1oc]

Very informative video. I've found that, if primarily road riding, that vibration dampening is the key to a comfortable ride over 80-90% of surfaces. And there are multiple ways to achieve that - from the obvious things like the seatpost suspension but also all of the other touchpoints - handlebar and stem, grips and even the wheelset (although that can be an expensive upgrade), tires ...

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks! Always appreciate your supportive comments.

[@samjones-mn6zm]

He does such a good job explaining everything it's really helpful and thank you for your service in the military and I do understand about them injuries trust me if you have a back injury suspension bike is the only way to go my surgeon told me it was a mandatory

[@Propelbikes]

Thank you so much Sam! I really appreciate it.

[@japbartlett]

Cheers mate, a very informative and well reasoned presentation.

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks! Much appreciated!

[@patrickcc3727]

Great informative video as usual. I would add a couple of comments: i) if you have potholes or rough uneven roads (which is the norm where I live) the hardtail bike (such as the Benno you mention) is just not the best for your backside or ride comfort in general; and ii) one thing you did not cover which I think deserves a lot more consideration is the ride comfort for an infant in a child seat on a hardtail vs a half suspension vs a full suspension bike. On the latter point I say this as my own 1yr old really doesn't like riding on my hardtail bike as it is definitely not a cushioned ride even with fatter tires, as the bumps and being thrown around in the infant seat are just not fun for her, and I would suspect a lot of other toddlers. I know a possible solution would be a Hamax Caress which automatically adds suspension for the infant and a suspension seatpost for me, but maybe an electric bike with suspension offers a better ride for an infant in a bike seat when faced with pot-holes and rough roads? I wonder which would deliver the most comfortable ride for the infant? I'd be interested on your thoughts on this.

[@johnreed7781]

Thanks for all the helpful videos. In your review of the R&M Charger3 you mentioned that three of the Propel Brooklyn staff were ordering a Charger3. What was their reasons for getting a Charger3 over a Delite? Is there some handling advantage to the hardtail? It would be great to have heard their opinions in the video. I'm trying to decide between these two models. My local dealer doesn't have a hardtail R&M in stock so I haven't ridden one. I ride on rough streets in Ann Arbor and mostly rough dirt roads outside of town.

[@Propelbikes]

Hey John! Thanks! Funny thing is Nahim who has a Charger3 now wants to get a Delite to be a bit more capable on the rough stuff. A hard tail will be a bit lighter and sportier that’s usually the deciding factor.

[@johnreed7781]

@@Propelbikes Hey Chris. All this information has been very helpful. Thank you! I've decided to get the Delite. I was really drawn to the Charger3, but I think I'd be like Nahim and wanting something that better handles the rough streets and dirt roads that I ride.

[@Propelbikes]

I don’t think you will be disappointed

[@Weichi928]

It’s a lot of to and fro rambling, but it’s all useful, as usual. So keep doing it. Keep us informed.

[@Propelbikes]

I’m glad some people can appreciate my random rambling. I don’t think you what to see me read a script

[@zobairh9506]

If you guys struggle to sleep, just watch this video with sound. It helps

[@markbeckett3317]

Well presented Chris

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks Mark! :)

[@larshelmin]

And then Tern just made front suspension standard on the updated GSD along with some other nice upgrades. Had my Tern HSD with front suspension, suspension seat post and those 20” wide tires for 2 weeks now I find the comfort is good on normal streets and gravel roads in good condition. It’s only when you hit a bump a little to fast it’s like ” Yeah, right I have no rear suspension 🤦🏼‍♂️”. It was thanks to your videos btw I decided to go with the Tern HSD. Btw, you should get a finders fee from Tern I think 😀

[@Propelbikes]

Congrats on your HSD! The tires and suspension help for sure. Happy riding! :)

[@LisaSchulz88]

Chris, you didn’t same anything about air versus spring fork front suspension. Comments?

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks Lisa! Great point. Maybe this could be another video, but basically air suspension is more tunable and sporty, but the cool spring is lower maintenance and a bit more plush since it’s more linear. An air shock is progressive meaning it gets firmer the harder you push it. Coil springs are also heavier which can be a concern for some, but it’s usually not a huge concern for a commuter bike.

[@jjgoode01]

...maybe I’m not supposed to talk about that... You’re a funny guy. Love your videos, they’re educational and I love your passion for ebikes. Keep it up!

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks! I was hoping someone would catch that. I actually checked with Benno to see if it was okay to say that before we let it fly in the final edit. Thanks for your comments and support :)

[@DolittleZoo]

You have a great amount of info on your videos so thanks for sharing.

[@bluesky4005]

Very nice and helpful video as all your other videos. Thanks! Can we combine suspension seat post with dropper seat to make dropper seat post with suspension?

[@Propelbikes]

Great question! PNW makes a post called the Coast which combines both

[@bluesky4005]

Thanks for your reply! I’m planning to buy a superdelite HS with Rohloff, Fox suspension and GX options. In GX options a dropper seat post is included, can we modify it to make it have suspension too?

[@Propelbikes]

We can do most things in our shop, but I’m not sure all shops would offer this. We’ve done it before though.

[@bluesky4005]

Hey Chris, I really like your knowledge and style. Though you are far away from me, I plan to fly to LA to meet you when I’m ready to buy my dream ebike. If I can go to Long Island only once when is the best time? When making order or when the bike has arrived for adjusting?

[@Propelbikes]

Yin, if you already know what you want coming in for adjustments would probably be helpful, but maybe not necessary. We could start with a call to make things easier if you’d like.

[@leojonkers3181]

Hé Chris, long time no see! Never miss a vlog of you. If you have full suspension in front, is it still possible to carry low front bags? My Sparta e-bike has monoshock "suspension", I do not really feel the working of the suspension, but on holiday trips I can carry 2 small Ortlieb bags low on my front fork. Fill them with light stuff. When I bought the bike (8 years ago) it had a simple suspension seatpost. I took the bike home and I really hate that suspension, it change the distance to my pedals all the time. Called the shop who sold the bike to me and I could change it to a normal no suspension seatpost. I do have an old fashioned Brooks sadel, with some springs underneath it. Works fine for me. Not notice any suspension at all. I use my bike for anything I could think off. Shopping with a very big Ortlieb bag on the back, day trips, holidays with camping gear. And so on. I have relatively small Swalbe tires with the most strong anti-leakage. I notice some loss in comfortable riding on roads which are not that flat when I pump up my tires till the limit. Never had a flat tire, important for me. Most roads in the Netherlands are good for bicycles, but of course there are less flat undergrounds. I will avoid deep potholes. I am not a racer, I mostly drive around 22 kilometer per hour. When the road goes down or with strong back wind I drive faster. No problems in my back, but after a little fall 25 years ago, something moved in my neck, so I must ride in a upright position, no racing bike steering wheel for me no more. Also in the Netherlands the bikes have changed, disk breaks on a e-bike are quite common, even on racing bicycles. Same goes for the suspension. In cities you still see the most simple bicycles. But Amsterdam is not average Dutch. We can also buy Dutch bikes with all the new stuff on it or even buy R&M bikes. And the prices with all those new stuff on it are going up and up. I would love to have a belt on my bike, but I also like my derailleur. Some hubs I really do not like, the one I like is to expensive for me. (Rohloff) Well, an 8 gears Shimano hub is also good, price normal. But you always lose some power when you compare it with a derailleur.

[@Propelbikes]

Leo! Good to see you my Amsterdam friend! I totally agree with your comments. Having the right amount of suspension is a challenging thing for sure. I definitely enjoy having more comfort though

[@leojonkers3181]

@@Propelbikes Hé Chris, my American friend. I am not from Amsterdam, but from Rotterdam. Those cities are like black and white. In Rotterdam we earn the money, in Amsterdam they spend it...😁😁

[@Propelbikes]

Lol! Love this

[@Propelbikes]

When I was in Amsterdam I stayed at the Hotel de Jonker.

[@leojonkers3181]

@@Propelbikes Well, only the s was missing at that hotel. Amsterdam and Rotterdam are just the opposite, still with a smile off course. 😀

[@chriskriaris2671]

hey Chris its chris the wife and i are ready. She is looking at the charger. Does it come with 2 batteries one internal and one on back? I am going full tilt with super delite all upgrade options.

[@Propelbikes]

Hey Chris! Very exciting! The Charger3 now has an internal and an external. If you get the standard frame it’s on the downtube and the Mixte version is on the rear rack.

[@ErwinMeulman]

Air, oil, coil string, elastomer (ShockStop/BMC), carbon/glass fiber flex (lauf), tire pressure !!

[@Propelbikes]

Good points. Maybe another video on the different types of suspension is in order

[@peterwong1778]

Can I use Superdelite for food delivery?

[@MW-yj8zk]

Does anyone know if there are signal lights available in the market?

[@optimoespacio]

What I don’t get is why going from hardtail to full sus is such a huge premium, I get that it has a rear linkage and a suspension unit but it’s minimum £1000 more! That jump in price is what makes this such a important topic to get correct advice.

[@Propelbikes]

Great feedback. I think full suspension makes everything a bit more complex, especially the engineering.

[@bluesky4005]

Hey Chris, Yesterday, I drove 200 miles to test ride a Delite GT vario HS with Fox suspension, a Homage GT vario. The shop has only these two models. As comparing , I also tested Trek Allent +9.9S ($5999.99). I definitely like Delite with full suspension and Fox upgrade and I’m going to order a SuperDelite GT Rohloff HS with Fox suspension and dropper seat post . My question is: when should I order it? If I order now, it take 8 weeks to build and 4 weeks to ship, so I’ll get it at the end of November, too cold to ride till spring next year. If I order in January next year, will the price jump up?

[@bluesky4005]

Do you have any idea or inside info?

[@Propelbikes]

Yin, it's really challenging to say. Prices have gone up mid season before due to currency fluctuations, but if I could predict that I might not be selling bikes. I will say I don't anticipate the bike changing so it probably makes sense to just order it. You can also save some money on shipping if you're outside of Europe.

[@weeder609]

Does locking out the suspension lead to longer life and less maintenance for the suspension?

[@Propelbikes]

I think the opposite is likely true. Having the suspension locked out on rougher terrain can put more strain on the seals. Some suspension will include a pressure release, but if the suspension needs to use this you're pushing the lock out too far. I would recommend just setting the suspension up correctly for your weight and keeping it clean to prolong the life and need for maintenance.

[@racerx2095]

Where I live I need full suspension because of all the pot holes in the streets.

[@Propelbikes]

Same in NY for sure!

[@armchairwanderer1287]

🚴‍♂️🚴‍♂️ Thank you. Nice informative video.

[@Propelbikes]

Thank you!

[@geraldined4796]

Thanks Chris for the thorough details. R&M is too expensive for me (I’m a NYC public school teacher). However I’m very interested in the Moustache Friday FS. How would you compare it with R&M full suspension bikes? Thanks

[@alexanderwang7451]

Hey Geraldine I own a Moustache Friday FS and I chose it over test riding a R&M with full suspension. For basic commuting, I suggest the Moustache. Where you would experience the most difference when riding electric bikes is the assist that the motor gives. The Moustache has the Bosch Performance line motor which is the same as the majority of motors that R&M equips on their bikes. As for suspension, my Friday FS comes with coil spring front fork and a custom rear air shock suspension developed in house by Moustache specifically for their bikes. With a 4k difference in price, I'd pick the Friday FS without any hesitation. However, if I'm considering belt drive and internal shifting, then R&M is the way to go.

[@geraldined4796]

Alexander Wang Thanks Alex! Your answer is pretty much what I was thinking. I really wish Moustache had a bike with the belt. That would be the ultimate! They’ll probably introduce it next year... I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Cheers!

[@Cstoreri]

Thanks Chris

[@Propelbikes]

Thank you Richard!

[@akinnon2000]

thanks

[@minniesaab7255]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@Propelbikes]

😎😊🥳❤️🙏👍

[@paulkaguamba8444]

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