Electric Motorcycle of the Future? Sondors MetaCycle Review | Daily Rider

[@RevZilla]

Read more about the Sondors brand and the MetaCycle on Common Tread! bit.ly/3YQ3fMJ

[@DawsonTyson]

EV's will not be the future. We will learn this when the next Carrington type event takes place. The other part is easy to prove with moderate research; they are not better but worse for the environment, they have a higher carbon footprint (not that this matters CO² is plant food), they are toxic to Animals, people, and plants, they cost more to operate.

[@LouieLouie702]

Give me a Dual motor version of this bike. I’m all in. 9:04

[@grahamn311]

I bought an SV650 this year and when searching for reviews always saw that the seat is brutal. And it was. At first. I'm at about 3500 km's now and its fine. Can't speak for the Sondor, or any other bike, but just like an engine, maybe a seat needs a little breaking in as well, eh?

[@salahad-din4114]

Might look good but it's still what's called a milk float in the UK nothing less. Just can't take to an electric bike

[@Laurynas_LTU]

Can you get hold of one of the Verge motorbikes? People who rode the first version say it's an actual full-sized unrestricted bike that can do what a regular ICE bike can, i.e. it feels like a normal bike, but electric.

[@LTVoyager]

Given that seat comfort is one of the key things you remember from riding a motorcycle, particularly when it is absent, I am always amazed at how many companies completely ignore seat comfort.

[@Timmayytoo]

Well, when you have no motorcycling experience but decide to design one despite that, this is what you get.

[@LTVoyager]

@@Timmayytoo Although you don’t need motorcycling experience to know what a comfortable seat looks and feels like. 😁

[@leslieaustin151]

Thanks Zack. Not only you usual information and comments, but some philosophy too! And very much to the point I thought. Les in UK

[@mikefooyc8237]

Even over engineering BMW who has motorad division does a poor job on their latest e bike. I chose my daily rider based on seat comfort, practicality and safety, speed power whatsoever comes later. A maxi scoot ticks all the boxes, twist to go and pull lever to stop. As easy as it gets.

[@tstartrekdude]

The seat on the prototype was actually worse even, this seat was the compromise for comfort.

[@benjamindarling7330]

The Sondors Metacycle was the bike that got me into Motorcycling. I read about it on a non motorbike site and put down the money down in Spring 2021, with delivery due later that year. In the meantime I did a motorcycle training course, passed my test and thought I should get a conventional motorcycle so I could become comfortable with shifting gears. Anyway bought an Enfield Interceptor 650, loved riding it, then enjoyed changing bits and bobs (all very easy and cheap on the Interceptor) and ended up selling my car. I still have the Interceptor, and after a year with a Kawasaki Vulcan as a second bike, now have a 2012 Ducati Multistrada as my second bike. I canceled the order for the Sondors last summer, due to the worst than anticipated range, but it did what Zac mentioned, it got someone with not motorcycle experience onto a motorcycle.

[@trashblast3512]

Got you into motorcycling and then abruptly away from the Sondors itself, which is a very interesting story for a "first love" for motorcycling. Typically your first bike leaves a lot to be wanting, but holds a special place in your heart rather than "it seemed interesting then I realized it was bad before I ever got on it, and ditched it forever." .... Glad you're on 2 wheels though! Have fun out there!

[@izaacmp]

Same, it’s what really got me motivated to take the course. I then picked up a Honda Navi to learn on and thought I would upgrade to the Sondors when it was released (paid a deposit and all) but eventually realized what I wanted was an adventure bike, and ended up picking up a 600cc used Honda Transalp instead of buying a Metacycle. I hope the Metacycle gets refined because someday I would love to have an electric motorcycle for daily riding, and only use a gas motorcycle for adventure rides. I no longer own a car.

[@MrJulianneave]

Great story man. I also ride an interceptor and have loved owning and modifying it. Good to have you in the two wheeled world!

[@NomadicPhoton]

How do you find the interceptor? I'm looking at picking up a Continental GT myself.

[@matthewgullett4358]

Bikes are like potato chips. You can't have just one.

[@BobPruett]

Truck driver here, thanks for the respect at the end of the video. Also, I do find it interesting that the big four Japanese companies haven't come out with at least one electric motorcycle and instead have focused on bikes like Groms, and Z125s.

[@JasonYergin]

Love to all the truckers, especially during these times. I agree about the big 4 Japanese bike manufacturers but I can only hope their hesitance to build electric bikes for the mainstream will result in good, solid products once they are released. With the quality, durability, and reliability you expect from those companies.

[@tstartrekdude]

The Japanese manufactuers make electric scooters and soon will make bikes, they are only for the asian markets currently. The battery swaping systems that are prevalent over there make it easy for them to put out bikes with small batteries that are still useful in those markets.

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

Ah, they're on the way. I think Kawasaki is dropping a ninja400-level electric bike, that's gonna be a good one.

[@tmoosy]

environmentally, the 125cc bikes are better for the environment. like others have said, they'll be waiting until they can make something worthwhile, rather than make it for the sake of it

[@jongun78]

I think they are waiting for battery technology to get better, especially weight-wise. I think Yamaha has already built an electric motor that's more powerful than their biggest engines. Kawasaki is supposed to be coming out with a hybrid soon. Honda has hybrid cars so they can probably adapt that tech to bikes pretty easily if they wanted.

[@donflores5227]

It reminds me of my little Honda when I was in high school. Not so fast not so big but it got me all around town. It also introduced me to riding. Still riding at 72 yrs old

[@MuscleBandit]

Please keep riding, until you're a centurion :)

[@hankaul6256]

Ride on!

[@dimrobot]

Sounds a little bit like the IT department developed a bike, without ever ridden one. Great review, thanks!

[@postersm7141]

I can’t believe these scammers really think they’re fooling anyone

[@tommontgomery2674]

In my opinion, what Sondors does well is build eye catching products for a tempting price that ropes in people who didn't know they even wanted something like that. It has made a niche for itself by following that formula. The products are passable for that kind of casual use and are admirable for filling that hole... Their products are not for the hardcore user looking for maximum performance though.

[@houseofroos]

For a high-design machine it seems like they missed some basic design elements. Trip meter, seat, suspension tune, signal canceller, cable binding at the steerer.

[@stevetaylor9265]

They have a long way to go before I can get interested in an electronic motorcycle. I like to get on my motorcycle and disappear for the day without a plan. I really like the idea of the quiet and smooth ride but limited range is still killing them.

[@lacrossev]

I live in the SF bay area and the bikes I can afford have ranges that would barely get me from sf to San Jose and back without any deviation in travel plans. Not being able to just be spontaneous is a serious barrier to entry for me as well.

[@anaveragehuman2937]

It's the same as electric cars, great for tootling around town and recharging at night but requires planning for road trips.

[@wiggenvan]

To be fair, this isn’t reaching into that market. If you regularly commute small commutes to work and can charge while you work, you get a lot of value out of it. I feel the same way of course, but this isn’t aimed at me

[@keithengle592]

@@anaveragehuman2937 I drive a Chevy Bolt on a lot of long road trips and I have an electric motorcycle and I can tell you electric cars are lightyears ahead of electric motorcycles in terms of charging time and range. A 400 mile road trip in my Bolt takes 1-1.5 hours longer than in a gas car, and I just plan a meal to happen at the charging stop so it feels super easy, barely an inconvenience. The same trip on my motorcycle would take about 21 hours. I'd have to stay off the highway and average around 45mph, and stop 3 times for a 4 hour charge. But I paid $6K for that bike and I love it so much for fun local trips. I'd never give it up

[@anaveragehuman2937]

​@@keithengle592 Yup, I agree cars are in better shape than motorcycles at this point. Remember not that long ago when the only electric cars available were things like the 60 mile range Leaf, the iMiev, and other dinky rangers? I feel like that's where bikes are now. I really like the idea of electrics and they've come a long way. I'd love to have a Bolt for around town stuff like school dropoffs, groceries, etc but I love our gas minivan for road trips. There have been some good deals on Bolts lately and it's pretty tempting. Hopefully the battery and charging tech will improve quickly. Never having to visit a gas station or do oil changes again would be lovely.

[@tstartrekdude]

It has the rated torque specs, but the trick is that ICE torque is measured at the crackshaft before the gear box, while electric torque is measured whereever the manufacturer feels like taking it. So it might have something like 100ft/lb at the wheel, but an ICE bike with 100ft/lb of crank torque will have a LOT more than that at the wheel.

[@mycosys]

Torque is essentially meaningless anyway - it is used as a kind of a shorthand for low RPM power. As soon as you ass any meaningful work/rotation/distance it is power youre measuring. Its extra meaningless to compare between a vehicle with no gearbox and a vehicle with a gearbox as the entire purpose of the gearbox is torque multiplication.

[@brandonreed70]

Thank you. So many people, including Spite's video on the new Kawi ZX-4RR, don't understand the transmission's role in multiplying torque.

[@mikep.5517]

Nice. Came here to say the same. An S1000RR has ~83ft-lbs at the crank but after the primary drive, 1st gear and sprockets that figure is multiplied about 11.6x to give 960 ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheel (at the engine's torque peak in 1st gear.) In this hub-motor topology, the motor torque _is_ wheel torque so, yeah, about 80 ft-lbs peak. Zack really should have caught this...

[@danielklopp7007]

Torque is always quoted at the crank (or output shaft of the motor). Gear reduction multiplies torque; in a "normal" ICE, that would be primary reduction x gearbox reduction x final drive reduction, however this bike has a hub motor (i.e. the output shaft of the motor is the rear axle - no gear reduction therefore no torque multiplication). So your 90 ft-lbs liter-bike would be generating hundreds of ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheel. ...thus ends today's physics lesson!

[@danielklopp7007]

@@mycosys Agreed! Dynamometers measure torque; power is calculated from torque. Power is torque over time (i.e. torque x rpm = power)... most people don't realize that dyno's only measure torque - the horsepower number they output is calculated by the software. BTW - before the flame-war begins, please note I received highest honors on my university thesis on pressure wave propagation in pipes. For the practical application part of my thesis, I built a dyno from scratch, and welded two-stroke expansion chambers (measuring torque on my dyno and calculating horsepower with my trusty HP35 - yes, I'm that old!).

[@Lizlodude]

To Sondors' credit, they managed to make an electric motorcycle that is not a cake calc albatross and actually makes sense for 6.5K, which is very impressive.

[@michaelp7617]

It’s complete garbage. 🤡

[@brentlaatsch7246]

My second and last comment. I haven’t rode a motorcycle since 1982. This is exactly what brought me back. At 62, this thing is a zippy blast to be on. 4⭐️ from me.

[@Fever_Rides]

I was shocked you went on the interstate! Lol. I assumed you would take the same route as the Grom. You’re a brave man. That dirt bike seat looks as comfortable as you described.

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

People over here in Germany take 125cc bikes (15hp) on the Autobahn.

[@christopherbiomass7155]

It isn't a bicycle. What aspect of it makes it something not to take on the highway?

[@Fever_Rides]

I did not expect it to go faster than 40 mph. And the seat and handlebars look the same as a 125cc dirt bike

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

@@christopherbiomass7155 Usually something people don't consider is the minimum speed (and sometimes displacement) required to get on the highway. If I remember correctly anything that can go at least 70kmh can go on the Autobahn.

[@siraff4461]

@@christopherbiomass7155 Maybe the bit at 7:30 where he mentions the thermal limit which can drop power on the freeway? If you are happy with losing power on a freeway make sure you wear good gear because sooner or later that won't end well.

[@Hobbies4Hire]

Great job on the video! Thanks for making it. The coolest thing about electric bikes is that they change the barrier of entry. For old-school computer techs like me, who didn't grow up spinning wrenches but instead built computers, getting into ICE bike has always been a daunting one. But with having a bike that behaves like a computer is really appealing. I can fully understand how each piece of the bike works just like somebody who has traditionally ridden and worked on ICE better understands the inner-working of an engine. So having both electric and ICE industries is a good thing. It gets more people on two wheels and that's good for everybody.

[@postersm7141]

You make a lot of sense. I would have to agree

[@evanfort]

I love how much your voice vibrates in this ride due to the lack of suspension

[@derick-smith]

Zack is always honest but he seldom piles on about things. That seat was so bad that he couldn't stop talking about it. I can't imagine how horrid it must actually be!

[@Enonymouse_]

I've been watching e-devices come out, the common aspect about many of the futuristic looking bikes is the bad looking seats. I had predicted this would suck to sit on, I had no idea just how bad it would be and when you add in bad or non-existent suspension that seals its fate if nothing else does IMO.

[@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt]

I'm a Metacycle owner and I can say from experience that seat comfort isn't an issue. Especially with only 40-50 miles of range. If one were touring with this thing, then yes, it'd be an issue for sure.

[@barrymckockinner9292]

I've ridden an electric motorcycle before not the same one on the video but similar looking. It's stiff, and it feels like your butt is sliding back when accelerating

[@jordanjones9210]

Die-hard motorcyclist here, I do 500 miles per week commuting on a 2017 Zero, rain or shine. One benefit that is never mentioned for commuters is the time savings from never having to go to a gas station. With my ICE bikes I was stopping at a gas station 3-4 times per week, a ton of wasted time standing around in the Texas sun breathing fumes. With an electric motorcycle it is literally a few seconds when I get to work and a few seconds when I get home to plug in. Huge time savings. If your bike is a toy, buy ICE. If your bike is a daily, do the math and electric can work. Also since I've started riding electric a lot more non-motorcyclists have approached me and expressed interest in getting one. The reason many of them don't isn't actually the money, it's the fact that they would have to go through a traditional MSF course and deal with the hassle of learning clutching, shifting, etc... I think we need a scooter/electric license class in the US if we want to increase the number of 2 wheel commuters (geometry hates cars!)

[@billb2079]

Might be the future, but I'm too old. I still use a carburetor. Great video

[@trashblast3512]

Ooo, what's that carb fitted into?

[@MVFRNinja]

Thanks Zack. I appreciate your efforts on these reviews. This is certainly an intriguing machine, and actually fits the case for my personal commute (~12 miles each way through town with some limited freeway). I've been a motorcyclist for over 16 years and have four crammed into my garage at the moment, but often toy with an electric for my commute. The problem historically has been that any of the available ones with real capabilities (ie freeway capable and able to really keep up with and exploit traffic ) are way too expensive for something I can realistically ONLY use as a commuter bike due to range issues. This is still very expensive considering the extremely limited range, but closer to reality. My biggest issue with this motorcycle has nothing to do with the range or performance. It's the fact that Sondors is using the buying public as beta testers on a clearly unfinished, unpolished product. The dash and speedo calibration is clearly poorly done and missing basic features (a resetting trip meter and no clock, really?!), the suspension and chassis are not tuned correctly, those binding cables at the headstock will chafe and short out, and in general the bike appears that it will not hold up to daily use and things like the storage compartment on the "tank" will break immediately. Nobody wants to pay $6500 to be a test subject on a bike with zero factory support, no parts availability, and no aftermarket support. I'm very excited for the next CTXP episode featuring this bike!

[@elwood62]

Excellent points. I wonder if it was a rush to market or a lack of staff with any real motorcycling experience.

[@bandwagon240]

It's unfortunately what a lot of these companies do. Super73 is the same way: bad motors, bad frames, bad OTA updates (that sometimes brick controllers).

[@ScottIngram55]

I bought a metacycle in the first round and it arrived a few weeks ago. I have a KTM Duke 390 that I have been riding for a while as a commuter on my 10ish mile ride to work. While frustrating that Sondors was such a crap company the bike itself is a lot of fun for what it is. It's perfect for my commute and is fun to ride. That first ride of any distance on that seat is rough, but either the seat has broken in a bit, or I have adapted, so it's not as bad on the nth ride (still could be a lot better though). I'm glad I bought it and it works well for my needs. My hope here is that the experience and demand here sparks the other major manufactures to build something with better comfort, speed and range, but still at that entry level price point that the Zero and others are above.

[@mikestevens4147]

CSC RX1E is going to be released soon. They already have a slower scooter that they've been selling for years. After Sondor's shortcomings, I think the RX1E might actually be the first affordable EM with few flaws.

[@elwood62]

@@mikestevens4147 I think the problem with electric motorcycles is they will never have the range people want or need. You can only put so big a battery in the bike. CSC might make a good one, but it won’t have any better range than the others.

[@dbwindhorst1]

Thanks. This is the closest thing to a comprehensive review of the Sondor by an experienced motorcyclist that I've seen. Despite concerns over hub motors for anything but low-speed commutes, I wanted to stay interested in the bike, but this categorically rules it out. And for the price you could get a fine used Zero FX/S.

[@stevenduhaime1484]

Very diplomatic review. I’d love to have an electric commuter, but they’re just not there yet. They’re expensive, don’t live up to their marketing hype, the range isn’t there, and worst of all they’re essentially disposable. When the batteries wear out your just going to have to toss the thing because a replacement battery is 2/3 the price of the bike when it’s brand new.

[@postersm7141]

Not only that, this particular one has no factory support and no parts. Hell if you drop the damn thing you can’t even get a mirror for it. It’s just not ready for prime time. And as far as the idiot scammer they keep saying let’s talk, I can’t believe he thinks he’s fooling anyone

[@JasonYergin]

It's good to see an attempt at an electric bike that's more affordable than most of what's out there and I'm sure it's a good bike for SOME people, but it really seems like a niche rather than a large group. I just picked up a new MT-03 to use as a commuter for $3700

[@tstartrekdude]

Given that Sondors is having major funding problems and might not be around much longer, I would not get one of these. For the next 10 years getting a Honda PCX will kill something like this from a value perspective. But I look forward when better batteries come around for these to get competitive.

[@wrxguyusa]

This is the answer to why there are no other bikes in this class. Electric vehicles currently only makes sense when you can sell at much higher prices.

[@SirNarax]

Battery chemistry can only improve so much. We are already at material limitations. Not like we got a choice eventually we will have to accept the range problem because the gas ain't going to last forever. So we either gotta solve the aerodynamic problem, crack another fuel source like hydrogen or accept poor range.

[@chE3z1]

Good choice, the PCX is the best sub $4k msrp scoot for sale in the US right now and its not even close. The newest one with the 4v 160cc is pretty stout, but you cant go wrong with any year. I have a 2018 myself!

[@natey-sky6299]

they arent going anywhere, there not even a startup. its just a dishonest company. this exact motorcycle is all over asia.

[@jamesatwood4433]

it's incredible how much a hub motor cleans up the entire rear end of a bike.

[@ShortArmOfGod]

Also cleans up the power output.

[@Enonymouse_]

@@ShortArmOfGod yup, overall run time and such are not nearly as good on a hub motor.

[@FastMav347]

If you ignore the whole 0 maintenance thing, I find this hard to compare to other things in this price range such as MT-07 or KLR650. Which is much more comfortable, capable and will have manufacturer support for years to come. While I do love the way this bike looks I don't think it's capable enough to fight in that price bracket. Now if they did release in the original 5k price bracket it would be a slightly different story.

[@danielklopp7007]

@FastMav347 Zero maintenance (for battery/electric vehicles) is a myth. Battery technology today will withstand approx. 500 charge/discharge cycles; therefore you will be replacing the battery (i.e. the most expensive component in this motorcycle - the equivalent of an engine swap in an ICE powered vehicle) every 2 years (if used for daily commuting). By comparison, an MT-07 will be barely broken in with 2 years of daily commuting (and given the legendary reliability of Yamaha's CP2 engine, won't need a rebuild until 12 years or more of this kind of daily commute).

[@SirNarax]

@@danielklopp7007 500 charging cycles before the battery capacity begins to deplete. The battery doesn't just suddenly need to be replaced. Depending on how long you need to travel you can put it off. If the battery is the maintenance and it lasts 2 years how much do you need to maintain your ICE vehicle in 2 years? How many oil changes? Oil filters? Chains, Coolant, spark plugs, air filter, battery etc. You can replace the battery 6 times (12 years) and it will still be around the same cost as replacing the engine. But all the other things you didn't have to do don't just go away those are still factors. And besides that anyway replacing a battery is not maintenance. Maintenance is maintaining a vehicle to prevent a failure. The vehicle will not operate without the battery but if you run it until it dies nothing happens. The battery is just a consumable. Calling a battery swap maintenance is like calling a fuel stop maintenance.

[@JumpingWatermelons]

@@SirNarax most likely the company that built this bike won't even exist in a 5 years. And even if they do, there's a high chance they won't still sell replacement batteries for this bike. Nearly all of these Sonders bikes will be in a landfill in 10 years. But 20 and 30 years from now, a lot of guys will be easily ordering pistons and cylinder walls for their MT-07 and rebuild the engine in their own garage for about $300 in parts (todays dollars). I think E-bikes for city commuting will surely become built to be used for decades, but as far as I can tell, it might take another 10 years to get there.

[@SirNarax]

@@JumpingWatermelons Most certainly not or will just quietly return to making e-bikes in some market. The battery is a really odd shape but inside the weird casing it is going to be the same old cells. When the battery goes flat you can probably remove it and make your own with a bunch of small cells. It isn't that difficult to do. You may even be able to find ready made batteries that don't really fit but do the same job. Just gotta wire them in. But we know what is actually going to happen. Most of these bikes are going to get tossed. But in 20-30 years people probably won't be replacing engines in a MT-07. We only got about 40-50 years of petroleum left on Earth. And it isn't going to be affordable for all that time. The closer we get to running out the more it will cost. Like it or not even if batteries don't advance and they won't we will be making the swap.

[@marcustaylor3528]

This has been one of nicest ways that I’ve seen someone demonstrate that a product pretty much sucks.

[@postersm7141]

I would say with its shortcomings such as things like a blinker that you can’t push to cancel like every motorcycle on the planet and the whole wiring binding up when you turn the handlebar thing, this thing is obviously built and designed by a company that doesn’t know anything about building actual motorcycles imo. I can certainly say though that I love the fact that Zack is honest in his reviews and he doesn’t sugarcoat anything for a manufacturer. I do appreciate that and that’s why I watch because I know I’m gonna get an honest opinion/review!!

[@kignacio]

FWIW to viewers… The Zero FX I rented was one of the most fun motorcycling days I’ve had in my life. I was an anti electric/borderline hater too. For context I own a 2017 Triumph T100 with 25k miles that pulls like a small freight train. Zero FXE deserves a better rating than it got IMO. An extremely few amount of commuters would exhaust its range driving to work. Most people have a 120v plug at work to charge. It would be an excellent commuter vs the bikes that are “above” it. Electrics just have to prove dead reliable and get rid of any software/electronic gremlins. If only there was a way to make them simple and more analog, then I would feel confident owning one.

[@Enonymouse_]

ZF suffers from range issues and pricing anxiety, i've tested 4 zero's so far. Fun as hell but for anyone who has real distance to cover and at highway speed that is a deal breaker. The 2018 DSR was by far the best performer for fun and range, if i didn't have a vehicle loan at the time I would have taken it home (90-120 miles for 14k). Zero as a company; Their biggest F-U factor for any potential customer is their anti-repair stance. If you want to repair it you need direct support from them (they won't give it to you). If your ride is not OE spec (reclaimed from salvage for example like a tesla) or out of warranty they will tell you to go pound sand.

[@electric_boogaloo496]

A vehicle made for commuting has to be affordable first and foremost. If you check out the 100-200cc bikes in developing countries, you would know what I mean. Motorcycles in developed countries are mainly pleasure vehicles. They have to last 1-2 hours of spirited riding at full charge. Electrics have problems with both.

[@kignacio]

@@Enonymouse_ so if a zero breaks, the owner is SOL? I’ve heard their customer service is almost non existent, it the worst experiences speak the loudest so I’m not sure how it really is.

[@Enonymouse_]

@@kignacio If it breaks in a way that is not covered, Zero is likely to say no. If it's a salvaged vehicle, and work is not done by a 'authorized dealer' they will also say 'pound sand'. They just generally oppose anyone except who they designate to do work on your vehicle. That's wrong!

[@marcinniemiec1005]

I like that when you have a bike from a manufacturer that won't send you to Spain for a test ride you are actually making a real review

[@brentlaatsch7246]

I have a black one. The seat isn’t uncomfortable to me. I’ve ridden Mtn and road bikes with 2 1/2” and 3” wide seats in 6/12 hour races. I was in on the $5k. I love my commuted miles, long country road miles around Charlotte, NC.

[@JoshuaTootell]

Bicycle saddles are very different from motorcycle saddles. For one, you should be buying a bicycle saddle that matches your ass. But also, it is normal to wear a chamois to make it more comfortable.

[@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt]

@@JoshuaTootell All true. However, @brentlaatsch7246 isn't *comparing* a bicycle saddle to a motorcycle seat. As a fellow bicyclist, as well as Metacycle owner, I can say that the Metacycle seat isn't uncomfortable *because* we ride bicycles. Our arses are simply used to a level of discomfort, so a low bar that's pretty easy to overcome.

[@just_j6514]

​@@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepItYou Get Plowed On The Regular Huh! 👉👌😮😂🎉

[@Relyk711]

I was an original backer for the indigogo campaign for Onyx motorbikes RCR. I believe it was the first to market and still best value per $ for this space. They positioned themselves more in the moped space rather than motorcycle which has its own pros and cons. I would be interested in your take on this as it sits somewhere between a super73 and this sonders/zerofxe space. For me it has more than paid for itself in fuel savings alone, also in a temperate CA climate and with a secure place to store it both at work/home. Also, having pedals, similar to the super73 it can technically be ridden in eco mode, 20mph/750w for ~60-120 miles depending on battery configuration. That's some real range. The pedals however are almost useless as the bike does weigh between 120-150lbs. Anyway, love this series, and all of common tread videos. Light hearted, humorous and honest gets me inspired every time. Thanks!

[@joosthillringhaus4970]

Time and again I find myself not just watching but actually enjoying content I would not even glance over if on another channel. Darn you, Zack, you most likable son of a gun, you! ;)

[@ScottIngram55]

This is a great review and spot on with all points. I purchased a Metacycle as part of the initial kickstarter as a second motorcycle. I currently have a KTM Duke 390 that I use as a commuter and this was meant to either go along side that bike or replace it. The whole ordering and delays debacle with poor communication absolutely left a lot of us wondering if the thing was going to be vaporware or not, but it's here now. Although it absolutely has it's faults; the rear turn signals break off if you look at them wrong and the seat had me considering finding my padded bike shorts for my road bike; the overall product is just......fun. Its quiet, it's quick, it turns well, it's incredibly easy to use with no clutch or gearing, and it cost practically nothing to run. In short, I really like mine. It's perfect for my small commute and fits my needs well. It's absolutely not going to be the right bike for a lot of people, but it may be the one that converts a lot of non motorcyclists to looking at gas or electric powered bikes.

[@zepm7184]

Wow, $6500 for a 125cc equivalent motorcycle/scooter that would sell for like $1500-$3000.

[@mfennell70]

My wife came in while I was watching this. "Oh wow! What is that? How much? Can I fit on it?" She's never had that reaction to a motorcycle. Points for knocking it out of the park on the design.

[@Jaffa1951]

I see what you mean about the speedo reading high. It even reads high at zero.

[@user-pq4by2rq9y]

A storage compartment would be nice. It's a neat concept but I am glad you highlighted the issues with the design.

[@user-gq2vn1xj2r]

That phone compartment door will last for a good one to two weeks!

[@arthurpendragon9079]

It would be fun if the Daily Rider intro had electric motor sounds when appropriate.

[@snupermoto723]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz, there you are, enjoy

[@lordraiden5398]

I think it looks nice. My problem with it is the price compared to mileage. I paid $5200 for my 1989 FZR1000. Like others have said many used motorcycles and cheaper ebikes do the same. If it was $5K and got at least 70 to 80 miles to a charge I would be in. At this point the only thing it can be used for is commuting.

[@G.W._Cook]

Something that is important when you test an electric motorcycle is: does it have regenerative braking? You haven't talked about it in any test so far.., not that there were so many that it's a bad thing.

[@TheJournier]

Terrific riding review and commentary! Told me what I needed to know.

[@Porsche996driver]

My son’s at Berkeley, what an awesome town and history. Plus I’m a Peet’s fan ha. Yeah cops are starting to watch for non-motorcycle e-bikes without pedals blasting around. -This would be a great island rental, little scooters are too slow. Guess no rear seat because the weight bias, but would be even more practical.

[@bcab7955]

Pretty impressive little machine, may serve a purpose for short commute riders. Thanks Zack!

[@MrGrandure]

This would definitely beat my zx12r on my 2 mile work commute

[@DarkNorthEmperor]

This reminded me of another Electric Bike that I've been keeping an eye on. Elthor Energy (Indian EV company - look up Elthor Bravo and Elthor Coral)'s Website has a page for a proposed electric bike named the "Frigate" which is not out on the market yet. I've heard rumors of the patent being processed. These are the specs being mentioned: Charging Time - 4 hours Loading Capacity -235 Kgs Cooling-down Method - Air Cooled Front Suspension - Telescopic Upside down Suspension forks Rear Suspension - Hydraulic Spring Shock Absorber Max Speed -120 Km/hr Battery - 72 volt Tyres (F/R) - Tubeless Transmission Type - Chain Drive

[@MaxBrauns]

The problem with all these new E-bike start-ups, no matter how well funded or who their personnel are, is that they are a business first before they are bike manufactures. They really think they can just build a reliable bike platform from scratch and have it compete with ICE bikes from manufactures that's been in the game for decades, not to mention all the experience needed to run logistics. Building a new bike is not something anyone can do, look at how hard Harley is struggling to even bring their livewire to market, not to mention all their problems too. Bikes need to be made by bike riders and manufactures not a cash grab start up. Thats why their aiming for non riders and trying to fill a gap thats actually already filled with other E and ICE bikes, they just look nicer.

[@joelhansen7373]

In 2020 I bought a leftover (but still new) Honda CBR300R for only 3400 including freight & setup. It weighs 30 lbs more & struggles to do 80 mph. But would I trade it for a Sonders? I’ll admit to being intrigued when I saw the first ads. But I decided it wasn’t capable enough to replace my 300cc Honda. It would probably be fine to make a grocery run on it, but it’s the limited highway range that kills it for me.

[@Briefcase217]

Great review! I don't that I will ever give up my ICE motorcycle but would love to see a few more high end Electric Motorcycles reviewed.

[@zsalemmackall]

Babe wake up new daily rider just dropped

[@Fever_Rides]

Those handle bars look just like a set that I bought on eBay for my 4 wheeler. They were $28

[@bandwagon240]

They do look like Pro-Taper Sports.

[@LTVoyager]

I wonder how long the power cable to the motor is going to last while flexing with the suspension. Most heavy electrical cables aren’t made to flex that much and that often.

[@swimnrun21]

I lost it at the star wars reference, daily rider is part of a balanced Saturday morning breakfast

[@Firestorm637]

When a new product arrives, whether Tesla or whoever, investors/early adopters take the bait first. They understand teething problems and and can see through them. The masses are a little more brutal evaluating new products as they expect more from their money. I am impressed with the styling and speeds of this motorcycle. These new startup companies have lots of headwinds to fight but they are showing us the exciting future. Fossil fuels are dirty. We waste 70% of the drilling, shipping, refining, and transport. Electric motors last forever. Batteries can be recycled over and over. The 450,000 world oil refineries contribute almost 50% air/land/water pollution on our rapidly growing world population. Great video as usual. Thx

[@doyoung2win]

Great video Zack! I’d love to see you review a bike like an Energica Eva Ribelle RS or Ego. It’s another level even beyond the Zero FXE you reviewed. Think Chevy Bolt to Tesla Model S Plaid.

[@DoubleRBlaxican]

I bought one of these (still haven't gotten it after a year btw), but the reason why I bought it was because I needed something to get to work in downtown. For this, there is no competitor. I can keep it in my garage, take it downtown and park it anywhere, and even sneak it into bicycle parking if I can't find normal car parking. Easy to ride in traffic and capable on the freeways. Problem is that I don't work downtown anymore and as such I don't really need it anymore. My Kawasaki 650 can do the job of garage to parking lot with dedicated motorcycle parking lot way better than the sondors so I will probably just sell it when I (eventually) get it.

[@C8sorbs]

They stole my money. It’s been 2.5yrs since I placed my order.

[@TheRealBhuado]

6 grand for an uncomfortable ride for 50km? hell nah.. since when is 6k cheap?

[@Propelled]

People say “loud pipes don’t save lives”. I have a Super Tenere I commute on. I try to not ride in the blind spots but in heavy commuting, often times you’re there by default. Dozens of times I had people change lanes into me. I put on a full Arrow exhaust, headers and all, pulled the DB killer. Lane changers rarely happen now. To add: You’re all excited that it exist…why?

[@matthewbrown7659]

Zack, I love your attitude and your videos, but sometimes your nature is way too positive 😂 A number of points: Edit: Summary: Yes it's a new datapoint on the "cost vs capability" plot, but it's still living on the same slope in that plot as everything else that's out there. It's not a huge improvement (if it's an improvement at all) on value in an electric motorcycle, which is what's really needed to see electric motorcycles take off. I had a different memory of your FXE ride, so I went back and watched it again... capability isn't remotely comparable! The FXE used just over half its range on your ride (versus the MetaCycle flashing low battery after a much more tame ride than the FXE provided, so *not* a similar range like you said), was way more fun along the way (wheelies from just about every light if you wanted), and could easily and comfortably hit 80+ mph. $6500 is *not* an approachable price for someone looking to dip their toe into the two-wheel community. Every prospective rider I've met has had an "Oof!" reaction to the $5k price of a new Honda CB300R before they're even aware of what maintenance is required. Even if it's almost zero maintenance, $6500 for a first two-wheel vehicle is steep, especially when it can't get them out of the city to ride some back roads with their new two-wheel friends. I would be as interested and excited as you if this cost about as much as a Grom... or maybe even a little more up to $4k, but at $6500 it's still too much. A step in the right direction to be sure, but it has a ways to go yet before it's good value. You keep referring to the MetaCycle as a 80 mph bike, but you showed us where you were pegging the throttle and on a slight hill it couldn't even hit 70. If the FXE is comparable in capability to a Honda CRF300L or CB300F (actually the FXE is significantly more punchy at surface street speeds, the CB300F is gutless), the MetaCycle is more comparable to a (barely) highway capable scooter, and appropriately priced to reflect that versus the FXE. New riders are also almost always intimidated by city highway traffic, and being on something that can barely keep up with 65-70 mph traffic is actually more intimidating than being on something that is just a little quicker than most of the cars around you (like a MT03). Just being able to hit 65-70 *eventually* isn't enough, how quickly you can get there to merge and change lanes makes all the difference in how a bike feels in traffic. The capability at the price point isn't actually that special, and the price is *not* that approachable. it's filling a gap in the electric motorcycle market for sure, but in terms of value it's pretty much on the same cost vs capability slope as every other electric motorcycle. It's cheaper than anything Zero offers, but it's also *much* less capable (again, not at all comparable to a FXE, you were being extremely optimistic to even suggest that!). ICE bikes near the same price point (Honda CB300R, Yamaha MT03, and Kawasaki Z400, although they're actually ~$1000 cheaper) do require more maintenance, but they're also way more capable. You're definitely right to distinguish it from an e-bike since it can absolutely keep up with normal city highway traffic for a short time, but it's not actually in the same ballpark of price as a mid-spec e-bike (1/3 to 1/2 the price).

[@iggynub]

mucho texto

[@imbettertnu]

About the price of parts you are correct I received my sondores and it fell over I broke the cheap rear blinker I ordered some lights I liked better. So sondors was like some would get back to me never heard from them. Your video was right on point

[@calebsmith77]

For now I’ll keep my street triple, but it’s cool to see two-wheelers aimed beyond the moto initiated. The more people the hobby can gather, the more favorable public opinion, awareness and laws may become for us all.

[@ProdicalMan]

To anyone considering this, just buy a Ninja 400.

[@phil4986]

Imagine is you had sat on it and said, "You know, this seat doesn't look fancy, but, boy, is it comfortable." Scooter makers know this, and they try to put on seats that prioritize basic comfort. With Sondors trying to make a statement here, a truly comfortable seat would have gone a long way to promoting that statement. The high sprung mass of the rear electric motor will thump the rear wheel into every pothole hard so a comfortable seat would reduce that thump from getting to the rider's backside. Hopefully, if Sonders gets a chance, they can offer a comfortable seat for their new owners who want one.

[@glennp1690]

Hi Zac, I'm thinking it might be time to add them E bikes on a leader board of there own?? Still keep them where you have put them but would be nice see them on there own too. Just my 2 cents worth, Cheers Mate ;)

[@winterwatson6437]

the company not being able to quote a replacement mirror is a *huge* red flag

[@doobie9550]

Electric vehicles are a cool concept but they need to increase range and figure out a way to make is so that you don't have to change how you drive to not kill the battery

[@JumpingWatermelons]

Motorcycles are too aerodynamically inefficient at high speed. An e-bike going high speeds could only work if battery technology is improved significantly

[@redwolfexr]

@@JumpingWatermelons Really the battery isn't the issue for a "commuter" bike any more than it is for a "commuter" e-car. They are designed to go from the charger in your garage to work/school and back. Most people grossly overestimate how far they actually drive between parking the car in the garage. You don't need 300 miles of range when you only drive 30 miles a day. Issue is COST more than efficiency. At 5-6K one of these could greatly reduce the mileage you put on, for example, an F150 or F250 truck. But that seat is a deal killer for me. I like the saddle on my BMW C650GT way too much. Probably won't ever get a maxiscooter again though, midsized make more sense.

[@bugatti314159]

Compared to the price of e-bikes which range anywhere from $2k to over $12k for a friggin bicycle - the Sondors, a legitimate motorcycle, seems appropriately priced. It should be fine for general non-highway commuting.

[@seaninness334]

Definitely an intriguing ride. IMO, they are getting really close but still not "there". Thanks Zack for keeping an eye on what's available.

[@k-rod2453]

Close? Not even ball park

[@quinnkirlew9892]

In reply to the person asking about the sv650 comparison, I think people in general need to stop comparing new bikes to used ones. The value comparison will never be there no matter what bike it is. Plus there's no msrp for used bikes, so generalizing is an exercise in futility.

[@baggerbenn]

That compartment cover is just waiting to break and fly off lol

[@JudoStev]

I get that the company is going "cool design first, practicality second" but that empty space where the tank usually is seems like such a missed opportunity. I'd love for that to be a storage compartment. A place to stick my lunch or a few things so I didn't need to wear a backpack would be huge.

[@martinowings3597]

Getting real close to a viable commuter! Can’t wait to see what Kawasaki does with theirs. I guess the future isn’t comfortable 😀

[@kleebl00d84]

When talking about torque of electric motors: Never forget that a good cordless scrwedriver has about 80Nm/60 foot-pound of torque. At 60/min. So without a certain rev, it means literaly nothing. Power is the important thing that propells you foreward!

[@fvpaquetqc]

Im all about electric, but thats not it lol. I wonder how surrons, electric motion and the like are getting really good for offroad but electric roadbikes seems to still be pretty bad

[@laafawnduh]

Zack is well spoken. He makes a great real-time commentator.

[@snupermoto723]

The perfect vehicle to pick up a soy latte and let everybody know how you're saving the planet and how much better than them you are. Love the reviews Zack, always have, you're the best.

[@phillipbatho3213]

A 1000cc sport bike, or any motorcycle with an engine, has it's torque measured at the crank. (even if it's measured at the rear wheel, the math is done to equate crankshaft torque) This electric bike has a motor at the rear wheel hub, so it should be compared to torque at the rear wheel of an ICE motorcycle, which is multiplied by gear reduction, depending on which gear it's in. For example, torque in first gear at the rear wheel is many times what it would be in top gear. But even in top gear, the torque at the rear wheel is higher than crankshaft torque, unless the transmission has an overdrive gear.

[@houseofroos]

I’ll take the 390 Duke please

[@MrSpeed-lt8gr]

I’ve come to look forward to a new Daily Rider on Saturday morning the same way I looked forward to cartoons back in the late 70’s 😊🏍️

[@davidsizemore2745]

6,500 buck get out of here they can keep it.

[@RemboUSMC]

A $5k to $6.5k price increase is significant to the tune of 30% which does not speak well to the management and marketing of the manufacturer.

[@bossb2539]

Thanks Zack. Personally I’m not a fan of electric cars or bikes. Our country has zero resources for obtaining minerals for the batteries, thus we have to outsource from mostly 3rd world countries. I.e China. Secondly, we don’t have the capacity to dispose of the batteries once consumed. Lastly, no one ever discusses the cost to replace the batteries or the life of them. I don’t like the fact that the government seems to mandate we use a flawed system that is really NOT healthy for environment long term. Thanks for taking the time to review this.

[@mycosys]

lol you are way behind on tech. Did you know there are many types of batteries?

[@DJPTEXAS]

Boss B2 .. Agreed .

[@grandenauto3214]

We outsource everything from China now??? Your car may be put together in a friendly country but the parts all come from China

[@bossb2539]

@@mycosys do you know what batteries are in the Sondor genius? Lithium ion made in China! Who’s behind?

[@bossb2539]

@@grandenauto3214 that’s exactly whats wrong in the USA. It’s called compliancy. Just keep buy Chinese you’ll be happy.

[@NewPragmatic]

Seems like a more comfortable seat would require a broader structure - which should also open up the opportunity for larger batteries and expand the range significantly. Would love to see how these bikes evolve over the next five years.

[@Commandos12]

do i spy a new haircut. such a dashing man lulz

[@luisvasquez6001]

the whole clutch thing and sensitive throttle response with normal bikes has always put me off with getting a motorcycle, this might actually seem like a good way to get into riding a bike without having to worry about the other stuff.

[@martinmackye9865]

Get a small cc bike and learn... it's not rocket science. Will QUICKLY become 2nd nature to such a degree that you literally don't even think about it. It just fades into the background.

[@Enonymouse_]

Throttle response varies widely between make and model of motorcycle regardless of it being electric or not. You starting out on something clutch-less might be a good idea, that's one of the reasons why Honda started to promote their DCT models with electronic clutch. It was a very forgiving ride, ideal for newer riders.

[@sodapopjenkins]

made in China?= bummer

[@patouillelafripouille7438]

although I can't help thinking it's too short, and maybe because of that (and because of the nice wheels and tires), it's the most beautiful ebike I've ever seen.

[@bfarm44]

Overpriced with too many issues

[@fredriklundh7649]

80 to 130 ft-lbs is probably exactly what you are getting. But since it is a hub motor, that 80 to 130 ft-lbs is it. On a normal bike the motor is mounted in the chassis, routed through the primary gear, then the gearbox and finally the final drive. Usually this means bikes end up having anywhere between 500 an 1500 ft-lbs at the rear wheel in first gear. In fact a lot of bikes have a rear wheel torque of 250+ ft-lbs in 6th gear (somewhere in the rev. range). This is very important to understand when comparing number between hub mounted motors and mid mounted motors.

[@dsofe4879]

this seems like it was made to impress investors, not motorcyclists. The name alone makes me not want to ride it.

[@nononsenseBennett]

No mention of regenerative braking....so I guess that's not a feature? Too bad.

[@nssinquefield]

Nope! 5 1/2 hour charging time to get a 2 minute sport mode? I can refuel my Speed Triple and have a decent breakfast in 20 minutes and be good for 3 hours of sport riding. There may be a day when hydrogen is incorporated in non-gas motorcycles but until then I'm sticking with my Triumph.

[@mycosys]

Yeah! you should never ride an electric bike because the cheapest models possible exist.

[@Kingsoupturbo]

I mean, compare it against one of those new high priced Vespas, full size wheels, simple electric drivetrain, looks pretty neat, (hence the seat, design aspect to raise money, put on better seat later) I can see the potential. Whats super neat is that electric motorcycles are so much easier to engineer then gas, so small companies can take a shot and make something pretty good against the titans like Honda etc. The really good electric motorcycles must be close now.

[@joeysocks5718]

I’m a fan. Would be perfect for my short daily commute

[@relaxivegotthis]

If I’ve learned anything from Jason at Engineering Explained, it’s that torque is what you can do, and power is how fast you can do it. That’s why Tesla’s can still win a drag race while towing.

[@Firestorm637]

I enjoy you unbiased views. You give pros/cons on both sides of the fence. So nice to hear nowadays where society wants views one side or the other no matter the issue thx

[@dave4148]

goes to show HP is really what matters! not just peak, but the HP curve too

[@nicholasroy9125]

Bikes like this COULD be interesting as an alternative for a daily commute machine or a bop around town bike. But, and it is a big but (no pun intended), the finished product just seems sloppy. I mean, how much would it cost to put on a comfortable seat, to solidify the cover for the phone compartment (is this thing waterproof by the way?) or to just place the wiring in a place where it won't impede the steering? As you said in the video these are details, but they make me wonder on the overall quality of the entire bike components and assembly and make me wonder how well a bike like this will withstand the test of time and mileage. Add to that the lack of costumer service you mentionned and it tells me that this product is just not ready. Good video as always. Keep on riding!

[@h82bcold]

Another excellent review. I think I've watched all the electric bike reviews, but unless I missed it, why no Livewire on Daily Rider?

[@6Twisted]

Doesn't matter how good it is, I'd never buy from a company that lies about the specs.

[@PKMz3ta]

Presumably the torque quoted is at the wheel given the hub motor drive. Can’t really be compared to crankshaft torque which is then magnified through the transmission and final drive. Looks like enough power/torque for errands and commutes but no replacement for sporty riding.