Electrical Fire waiting to happen

[@davey6024]

Ahh the good old holiday digs eicr! My family have learnt to embrace this ritual every summer holiday abroad. The missus packs the fluke tester, my lad packs the wera Kraftform kompakts in eager anticipation of what red flags we highlight!

[@SvenLippens1]

It indeed looks like the barn was purposely built for solar panels. At our farm we looked into this around 2014, one of the last years some companies offered this because of the profitable subsidies back then. Basically a company built the roof with solar on your land for free (including insurance), in exchange they got the energy for 20 years or so. Enclosing the sides of the barn was at your own expense but you got a free roof.

[@RobTheSquire]

I quite like how the bathroom sinks were on either side of the bath, very unique but it is scary that there are sockets so close to the sinks.

[@ilkokolev7171]

the 3 live bus bars are the 3 phases, which are feeding the socond row (most likely) and the bottom row of breakers, maybe even the top one too

[@electricalstuff259]

'Whatever that is' - that's the main switch that comes as standard on every supply.

[@jamesthew800]

We seem to be the only country that doesn’t have standard outlets by the bathroom sink. Uk is over the top with some regulations in my opinion. I installed a regular outlet in my bathroom years ago. I do own the house however and would swap it out for a blank plate if I move.

[@maxking3]

… and probably the only country, where 3-phases to the building was not made standard in the 70s or 80s.

[@kittsdiy]

Yep i also think so .. here in Belgium most houses have 3 phasse at the meterbox ... but standard you get usually 40A mono ( depending on the load you get L1 + N or L2 +N or L3 +N ) ... but later upgrading to 3 phase is DNO swapping the breaker at meterbox and ofcourse rewire the fuseboard for 3 phase @@maxking3

[@TheEulerID]

@@maxking3 That is absolutely not the case at all. The great majority of countries in Europe do not supply three phase to domestic properties as a matter of course. Germany, the Netherlands and a few others do, but it's a minority.

[@maxking3]

@@TheEulerID Last time I checked: Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France made 3-phase to the home default in the 70s; Italy, Spain & Portugal in the 80s; Greece & most of Eastern Europe in the mid-90s. Apart from the UK it is pretty much everyone now who puts 3-phases to the meter for any new builds. (Eastern Europe redid their grid after the Iron Curtain fell, so it was obvious to put 3-phase to the building.) For old properties it is still 1-phase, but for those countries who started 50y ago that‘s a tiny fraction left mostly in rural areas.

[@TheEulerID]

@@maxking3 really? Do you have a reference to this formally? I have seen lots of first hand accounts from Italy and Spain where they often have very limited supply power of as little as 5kW and have to pay a supplement for more. That doesn't really fit with standard 3 phase. New builds are maybe different rules, I haven't seen a lot of evidence outside of North Europe of three phase supplies in practice from commentators in those countries. Three phase to apartment blocks is another issue. I have seen examples of that from Italy and Spain, but the individual apartments were single phase. Clearly for very high power use, then 3 phase makes sense, and EVs and heat pumps could well trigger a lot of this, but to do that wholesale (whether distributing 3 phase to properties or single phase) is going to require wholesale uplifts of local power distribution networks anyway across Europe as, with a few exceptions, they simply aren't built for that sort of increased demand. We will see, but three phase complicates installations and is a nightmare for rero-fits.

[@dead.format]

Bulb holders hanging off single insulated cable poking out the wall / ceiling is almost compulsory in Europe. I spend a lot of time in Germany and dont think ive been to a house where there isnt somethijg like that.

[@wilbertvandenberg3158]

Except that it's illegal even in Germany. People do stupid stuff.

[@dimitar4y]

yep... europoor.. I'm from europe... insane architecture and botch jobs are a heritage.

[@martinbateman2467]

Mains outlet by a bathroom sink is allowed so long as it is on a 30mA RCD

[@kittsdiy]

Yes .. in fact new regulations here in Belgium .. we neeed to fit a 30mA RCD per 8 circuits . ( and 1 main RCD 300mA) so we can't have circuits that are NOT RCD protected . We also never have CPC from the DNO . Always need to put earthing rod or earthing loop under foundations .. and has to be Equil or lower then 30 ohm .

[@sshaw37]

That looks like France. And as soon as you turn two things on it will trip.

[@kittsdiy]

02:17 those are probaly the main RCD's . So everything is RCD protect .

[@dimitar4y]

I'm the same, I can't switch off thinking about work. But, I love my work, so even if I think about it during vacation, it means nothing special to me. Doesn't get in the way or nothin'.

[@Ragnar8504]

I strongly suspect those bare bus bars weren't intended for that use but more likely meant to be neutral/earth bars. I've seen bare neutral/earth bares abused like that before. The bottom row looks like cartridge switch fuses that probably also switch the neutrals, one row above there might be remote switches (latching relays). In hallways with a bunch of doors it's fairly common to use these and momentary action switches rather than loads of three-way switches. These switches change state (on or off) every time you apply voltage (usually 230 V) to the coil so you only need one switch line from every switch location to the remote switch. They're either fitted in a JB somewhere or in the fuse board (which obviously means the switch line to the lights needs to run all the way from the board to the light). I was once called to a place (council flat) where the tenant suspected electricity theft. Mid-50s house with original riser mains and single phase 2.5 mm2 (not kidding, 20 amp fuse per flat) to each flat. The customer's ex had rewired the place in the 80s by the looks of it and made a right mess. Austria (like Germany) changed colours in 1965 and being ten years older the incomer had a red earth. This particular DIYer apparently didn't know that and was convinced he didn't have an earth so he left all the green/yellows of his sparkling new installation not connected. He also didn't know that grey was the neutral. Nor did he really know what the neutral and earth bus bars were meant for. He ran the neutral to the neutral bar and the live to the earth bar. From the neutral bar he ran short jumpers to each single-pole MCB, fusing the neutrals instead of the lives. We didn't find any evidence of theft, the disc in the meter immediately slowed down as we unplugged the fridge and freezer. Oh and the lady thought she had to be using a lot of electricity because her meter was spinning much faster than the neighbour's. The neighbours did 75 revolutions per kWh, hers did 480.

[@mxslick50]

I was self-employed for over 30 years as a cinema service technician. I can relate to the "never switching off" , as I would very rarely go to the cinema to see a movie. The slightest little flaw in picture or sound would drive me batshit insane. I can't even recall the last time I watched a movie in a cinema!

[@mattmanslim]

Work switch off - I’m not self employed but really struggle to switch off. I’m always thinking about the team left behind, what I’ll come back to and the perception people may have of me for being away. I’ve only ever fully switched off once and that was my honeymoon. Best holiday I’ve ever had.

[@tobysherring1369]

In Australia sockets are next to the sink and normal light switches are used, and that was allowed before RCDs. I think it's only the UK that has an issue. Regs wise you can use regular switches and install sockets in a UK bathroom as long as the room is big enough to have a Zone 3 - many bathrooms aren't. The UK rules dont cover toilets without sinks but it seems builders put pull cords wherever there is water.

[@markpotter8280]

no electricians put pull cords whenever they can't be arsed to chase down to a switch 😅

[@CsöszakiHoszivattyu]

I am Eastern Europe Heating Engineer, we only use conduit 1st fix in floor wall etc for like 100 years 😂 Radial only for like 80 years now, re wire usually easy as can pull cable easy, no ridgid copper cable like twin an earth like UK, same as Heating no soldering or push fit crap, everything in wall, hidden, tidy no joints in floor all on manifolds.. UK way far behind Europe in everything. Usually in Hungary where I from, the washing machine in Bathroom everywhere, so have sockets all the time. Same sockets above basins.. 😂 Well shody here and there as you seen, but works.. Enjoy holiday and switch the work off. 😂👍

[@andrewhutchins9939]

As an electrician here in SW France, i can tell you that is a complete mess and needs some serious attention. nice video

[@timothywalch7102]

Outside plug set a generator hookup

[@I_Damoooo]

I recently moved from Ireland to Canada, It’s been an experience so far adjusting to their installation methods for sure! I can relate to this video too much right now 😂

[@electricalstuff259]

How did you do that? Joining family?

[@I_Damoooo]

@@electricalstuff259 Just applied for my Visa and started from scratch!

[@Lee-xs4dj]

hand got pretty close to that live busbar at 3m36s

[@NBundyElectrical]

It fine I know not to touch it 👍

[@gavinminion8515]

This is all fine. You must remember that France has plenty of electricity from their nuclear power plants, so it's not a problem if a bit of it leaks away.

[@wilbertvandenberg3158]

In France leaking electricity is NOT normal.

[@tomislavzupanic1557]

The four zones of the bathroom are: Zone 0 : The area inside the bathtub or shower. Requires a minimum IP67 mark for lamps. Zone 1: The space vertically above the bathtub or shower up to a height of 2.25 m. In this zone, the minimum protection should be IP44. Zone 2: Area outside zone 1 up to a distance of 60 cm. It also marks the space around the sink in a radius of 60 cm. The minimum protection in this area is IP44. Zone 3: The rest of the bathroom that is not in any of the above mentioned zones. As the risk of contact with water is reduced to a minimum in this area, there is no need to pay special attention to the degree of IP protection, i.e. it is possible to use lighting fixtures that are used in other "non-dangerous" rooms. Do not forget that electrical devices in the bathroom must be connected via an RCD switch (FID switch with a working current of 30mA) for safety reasons, which is a detail that you must agree/check with the person who installs the lighting fixtures in the bathroom.

[@TheEulerID]

The RCD requirement is now all but compulsory in all rooms in a domestic property. There has to be a good reason for it not to be so protected. In addition, I think the minimum distance for standard UK power outlets in UK bathrooms from baths or showers has now been reduced from 3m to 2.5m (acting from memory). I suspect that's it's to prevent people using, say, a hair-dryer with a typical length leading straying into a wet area.

[@Ragnar8504]

Which country are you talking about? I think most European countries got rid of zone 3 a while ago and outside zones 0-2 bathrooms are treated like any other room. The sockets in this bathroom look like they could be more than 600 mm from either edge of the bath, so they conform to the regs in France (and most other European countries).

[@imark7777777]

as Somebody from the US that is certainly impressive. I don't know whether that's just because of the age or if it's just the standard throughout the country.

[@davedave6404]

A least you can see all the joints !. I always suspected that a socket downstairs in our front room was an addition, finally got round to getting floor up above when carpet changed. Ah yes, connections cut into a cable which fed a radial socket already, twisted connections covered in tape. Not sure which of your Regulations this complied with, but it must be OK because it works.

[@wizard3z868]

In the states all fixture wiring and splices must be contained inside of a box (granted we use twist on connecters (I prefer copper crimps and have started to use wagos) and we have sockets in the bathroom that are very quick response rcd or rcbo protected radial circuits. Some areas even required rcd protection on exhaust fans and light switches in my area from 30 yrs ago. There is no national regulation on electrics the code is just basic safety recommendations that is up to local jurisdictions to adopt or make stronger rules.

[@stufq]

Sockets in bathroom, 240v are normal in whole of Europe is only UK that is scared /panic about sockets and switches in bathroom /toilets 😆

[@kobirelf97]

Not really u can have a socket in a bathroom as long as it's I think 3m from any water supply

[@CompuWhizz]

Not only that, the nanny state exists here in Ireland too, but that is mostly down to lazy regulation and not bothering to improve on UK regs which they seem to follow blindly save for the unsafe exposed earth in T&E

[@Monkeh616]

​@@CompuWhizz Unsafe? Oh, this should be good..

[@TheEulerID]

@@CompuWhizz What is unsafe about the earth wire in twin and earth being uninsulated in twin & earth? It's not carrying power and is at nominal earth voltage. Also, they are now sleeved within termination boxes and that's more about preventing faults than being unsafe as such. If there is a neutral to CPC or line to CPC fault it will trip either the over-current or RCD protection. If the insulation on the line or neutral is failing to cause such a fault then it's time for complete replacement anyway, whether the CPC is insulated or not. So, to repeat, how is it unsafe to have a CPC only insulated by the outer sheath?

[@darrenroberts6376]

Is that where the saying “Haywire” comes from?😮

[@itsmyview2024]

Believe me, thats not a bad install compared with a lot of rural france, in my village two pin sockets wired in figure of 8 twin, no earth...................................In the board you will see fuses, timerrs contactors

[@Matt-vj2rp]

I’d like to know the IP rating of that vest

[@steved2136]

It isn't an uncommon technique here in Australia, often used to make a carport or veranda roof (isn't allowed for habitable areas obviously, but fine as a 'awning roof' (especially in the more northern regions where the roof pitch can be very close to flat like many carport roofs are... makes for a cheap carport or veranda roof, as you can get away with just the 'frame' for the roof, and using the panels like that as the actual roofing material- silicon a 'T' moulding over the joints on top and it becomes quite waterproof- with rigid conduit and often a sprayed on paint job over the undersides (including the wiring conduit and panel backs), it actually looks like a normal roof- or leave it as is, and most panels will let stripes of light through, giving you a 'mini-skylights' effect...

[@steved2136]

Note sure if this will work- this is just a random photo, but shows the 'striped skylight effect... i.pinimg.com/736x/0b/6b/8b/0b6b8b21bbf22ea57407009e047c3908.jpg google has tonnes of pictures of it being done with using just the panels off the roof, google "carport made out of solar panels" for hundreds of examples...

[@mpmatt3469]

As ever difficult wiring conundrums in other places, but are they really that much different from the UK where we have regulations that are equally ignored. In practice though the basic standard is to provide a three phase supply which will allow greater flexibility to accommodate the load in the property, will give greater flexibility for installing EV chargers and allow larger solar panel installations. But although every property in the uk is presently supplied from a 3 phase distribution network we only usually connect to a single phase supply, why?

[@mpmatt3469]

Would it not be sensible for the UK to introduce a requirement for ducted electricals and plumbing so that everyone knows where the cable runs and plumbing services are and that they can be updated as required? Wires tacked to joists and buried in plaster are still acceptable according to our standards but should they be acceptable?

[@markpotter8280]

In an idea world we would all wire a new build house in 25mm conduit, but its not practical for all the other trades and so many other reasons plus who would foot the bill for all the extra time and cost incurred (but it would be nice)

[@Monkeh616]

I don't think that's all flex, it's probably NYY-J or similar - round solid core.

[@electricalstuff259]

It's U1000R2V, like round profile exterior rated twin and earth.

[@Monkeh616]

​@@electricalstuff259 Sounds like NYY-J with a French accent. The wonderful thing about standards is there's so many to choose from!

[@Ragnar8504]

​@@Monkeh616 That's exactly what it is. Might be minor differences in insulation thickness and stuff like that. NYY is quite chunky compared to some other European cables for the same purpose. Austrian E-YY is definitely thinner than NYY but we randomly get both, depending on what the wholesaler had on offer at that time.

[@jamesdean8864]

Haha go on holiday and take the electrical system apart 😂 stressing you out even more lol

[@mickbroadbent6750]

hope yous had a great break m8,,,i wonder what the stats are for fires /electrocutions etc between uk n all the other countries

[@reecehorner3736]

Is the RCD a type A, because we here in the UK have been told every other country in Europe have been installing them for over 20 years and we have been lacking, Hmmm

[@markrainford1219]

😂

[@electricalstuff259]

In France you can get both but they use Type A for electronic component carrying appliances like dishwashers or fridges etc.

[@Scotts_Status]

Excellent video! 100K coming soon.

[@nocode1603]

Loving the uninsulated driver/chib 😂

[@johnmaguire9305]

The “kopex” is rodent-proof tubing through which the cable ( or singles) are run. Not sure if it’s mandatory or not.

[@alsanova]

5:40 - that hook probably screwed straight into cables behind, look at the direction of cables / conduits! Best not touch that! 😳🫣😀

[@TheEulerID]

Ironical that an electrician that can never switch off.

[@paulrattray8121]

I see what you did there 😂

[@paulrattray8121]

When you can afford it (time, money, trust) take three weeks off. First week you'll be thinking about work, second you'll have forgotten about work, third you're back to thinking about work and what awaits. First week back you should be wondering why you came back, second catching up, third everything is a receding memory.

[@xxDADDYDAYCARExx]

Hahahahahahahaha "Thank god she's got a towel on"..... ive got three of those too.... how come children just run around nearly or fully naked so much!!!!! Now if i could only convince the wife to take a leaf out of their book!!!???

[@firsteerr]

dont forget nick french houses are not built for normal size humans they are built for people who feast on the pests of the garden

[@andrewhutchins9939]

They aren't contacters, they are fuses you pull down the tab and the fuse pops out

[@Darkonon]

I can't tell what they actually are but you link contactors for a common coil for example if one timer can bring in multiple heaters you would have one timer powering 3 coils, really hard to tell whats actually happening there though

[@HA05GER]

You wanna see a fire hazard. My in-laws tumble dryer packed up yesterday said I'd have a look maybe motor brushes or something silly. Anyway I took the back of and the whole dryer is absolutely full of lint. The elements had burnt pieces of lint in it. How the thing had never caught on fire I do not know. I decided I didn't even want to look further it's dangerous and being a pretty modern machine only made in 2015 was pretty concerning. I ended up lending them the money for the new one I know I'll sleep easy knowing that's gone.

[@simaesthesia]

Hmm, yes, French electrics!

[@marcobrian1619]

Bumped into your channel flicking thro. I know the pain.......you just can't let go of your job for 2 wks..... I'm same ...ha ha But that barn......wow Now that's how to solar panel a roof.

[@gary.corcoran]

It's gone haywire in there !!

[@chubbychubs4636]

I'm a qualified electrician and packed it in. I decided it was doing me no good at all.

[@wilbertvandenberg3158]

THIS INSTALLATION WOULD NEVER PASS A FRENCH CONTROL ! Unfortunately once the installation is in, nobody checks it anymore unless there's a problem. Even 80 years later. So, here in rural France I have to work with this kind of mix between ancient (often before WWII) installations and adaptations by incompetent amateurs, all the time.

[@alanwalton5735]

Just don't look at USA electrics, wire nuts, un sheathed CPCs. Haven't seen any type of testing.

[@MishuDorin]

Wow, surely a Romanian electrician did that work, that's how they are all in Romania😂😂😂😂😂

[@troyboy4345]

Oooh la la !

[@shaun30-3-mg9zs]

Put your screw driver away your on holiday 👍

[@lewis94uk]

Get some beard dye on that geez it’ll look sweet!

[@tonyjeffery4435]

Your away with your family man what are you doing

[@waynenrich]

U would get less time dropping soap nick

[@Jay369]

Jordan won't reply. He's now too busy doing nothing 😂

[@ajones8699]

Probably built for free and handed over to the farmer after 20 years of generating electricity for the builder.

[@jensschroder8214]

i can calm you down That's not 240 volts, that's just 230 volts ;-)

[@dave300m7]

I’ve always wondered, when I’ve stuff like this in France or Spain, do more people get electrocuted / are there more electrical fires then in the UK? Although I’m not sure some of this would comply with any standard 🤣

[@bernherts]

The answer is they don't get electrocuted But as a Brit in Spain, I prefer to make stuff off as safely as possible in our house, because some installations do scare me 🎉

[@TheEulerID]

Despite what people might think, electrocutions in the UK are quite rare. Looking at he ONS figures for "deaths following exposure to electricity", which is their terminology for being electrocuted, then in England (which is well over 80% of the UK population) then, between 2001 and 2017 inclusive, there were a total of 143 such deaths at home (or an average of 8-9 per year). In all locations (including industrial), the total number over the same period was 345, or about 20 per year. From another site (based on government statistics), there were far more deaths caused be electrical fires. However, only a small minority of those were due to electrical wiring installations. Most were due to faulty appliances or their misuse. One obvious example is the Grenfell fire caused by a faulty appliance. Here's the breakdown for England According to another government report, there were 253 fire-related fatalities in 2018/19 (the lowest on record), and of those 7% were due to electrical installations (18 people), slightly more due to electrical space heaters (20 people) and a lightly higher number (23) attributed to "other electrical appliances". Note that the electrical appliance and space heater deaths were often due to misuse. So around 60 people were killed by fires attributed to electrical installations or appliances. That's less than the number attributed to smoking materials, which was responsible for one third of deaths in fires (about 85 people). Far and away the biggest cause of domestic fires are cooking appliances causing half of domestic fires and injuries, although only 7% of fatalities. Of course the big difference is that cooking related fires don't happen when people are asleep in bed. When I looked at US deaths due to fire, it was much higher then in England at 3,810 in 2018. If I adjust for the population, that's a rate of about 2.5 times that in England. Possibly the use of wooden construction in houses contributes to that. I don't know about Europe as a whole, but in 2018 in the Netherlands there were 49 fire deaths from a population about one third of that of England, which makes their rate only about 60% of that of England. Our World in Data has a map of fire deaths per hundred thousand, and has Netherlands at 0.34 per 100k, Germany at 0.42 per 100k and the UK at 0.38 per 100k. The USA is much higher at 0.86 per 100k with, surprisingly, Norway and Sweden at 0.64 and 0.52 respectively (the wooden house issue again?).

[@dave300m7]

@@TheEulerID that some interesting figures, although as you say its pretty difficult to work out if an increased fire risk (or electrocution risk) is due to electrical standards or other factors. Not that I think the UK standards are a bad thing, but if other countries are “getting away” without killing people, are UK standards too high (i.e. expensive)??

[@maxking3]

@@dave300m7 Not really. The standards are hardly at fault for a higher cost. An example I already used on this thread is that Central Europe made it a standard in the early 70s to put 3-phase (40A or 63A) to the building. That was an absolutely minor cost factor to do so. (4 or 5 core vs 2 or 3 core). Now with the rise of EV chargers and heat pumps, guess who has to find more expensive solution for rising power demand?!? What drives up cost is labour and in the UK - given its ancient housing stock - there is never enough money to do anything right, but people always find some money to extend what is barely working for a few more years.

[@johnwarwick4105]

Adg as we all know thousands of Europeans are electrocuted in the bath and from exposed choc block🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ clearly not, perhaps they are like “ farm kids” they learn from an early age to respect their environment. Not saying we should reduce our standards, just maybe not act so shock horror at a bit of connector block. Was I the only one that was expecting the owner to come in as you had all the covers off the DB’s, now that would have been hilarious. The barn roof was interesting I wonder how all the panels seal to keep the rain out.

[@electricalstuff259]

Non-t

[@NM-gr1iq]

The French eat frogs legs and snails so what would you expect!

[@michaeljarcher]

Brits we eat spotted dick. And some benders just ignore the spotted part.😆

[@electricalstuff259]

Very very few French people actually eat that

[@Irilia_neko]

Typical exemple of what you find in rural zone in France