Electrical Panel Replacement/Install

[@stevejanka361]

Good morning, thank you from a electrically challenged person. Electricity scares the hell out of me. I am starting to understand it through videos like yours. Thanks for the informative video. Anything helps me. Take care and good luck.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thank You! the more you work around it the more comfortable you get. Keep watching and learning!

[@MrPhotographer77]

Great video! Very informative! One thing: first thing you should do is _verify_ electricity is not present _in the panel._ Power is disconnected, but people doing work themselves can mess up.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Yes that is a good idea, Just hook up a multi meter to check. Thanks for the tip

[@melchizedek077]

@@appalachiandiy2415 I was thinking the same thing. Always treat the wires as live until then can be verified to have nothing on them.

[@joee7626]

Great video, thank you! This was clear and to the point without a lot of extra "rabbit trails" explaining things ad nauseam. The ONLY problem I saw was a lack of video link at the 15:13 mark, kinda disappointed there. Keep the videos coming, I really appreciate it!

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thank you! and I placed that link in the video, forgot all about it!

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

We were getting estimates on a central air conditioning system, and the salesman told us we need a new box. I don't doubt that, but he wanted $2000 over and above the cost of the AC system, to replace the box. This is far above my ability to do, but I have a friend who is an expert with this kind of stuff, and he has helped me with doing breakers in the past. Pulling the meter is within my abilities, so I think Dan and I can tackle a project like this. Thanks for the tutorial!

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Absolutely! Glad this could help

[@07BSPtC]

That is not a bad price. My area 200a is usually 6k. We have a few other things we have to do and adding 2 240v circuits and it is 9k total

[@denniss1211]

Out standing ... I have looked at a lot of videos as I am going to replace the very very old box in my home ..... this is the best .... thanks!

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thanks!

[@michaelblodgett4704]

My panel is so old, it has buss fuses for the main disconnect 😂, so I take my life into my hands every time I disconnect the power. I'm not the least bit frightened of pulling the meter. When I was a kid I used to pull the tags off the neighbors meters for fun, and the utility police never hunted me down. 😂

[@Al-wu8is]

Sorry about It. I deleted my comment. I live in Canada and the electrical code is different , I did not realize that you are in USA. I was wrong and you are right . you are doing perfect. thanks

[@appalachiandiy2415]

No worries

[@RonSanchez100]

Did u originally comment about no ground in the panel?

[@Dr.Phelix]

Quoted at $2-4k for a new service box. This video gave me the confidence to at least try it myself. Year later and she's still flowing⚡like the waters of Capistrano.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Haha nice

[@JoseRodriguezFrio]

how'd you disconnect the main? removed your meter?

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@JoseRodriguezFrio yep

[@shorty70]

If something does go South, hope your insurance pays up...with no permit.

[@BibleExposition2022]

Even after removing the meter, one needs to use electrical current tester to check if there is any electrical current still live before start removing the wires & the breakers. What do you think? Thx

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Always good to be extra cautious, doesn't hurt to check

[@scottdc2105]

Nice tutorial, can i ask a question, there are two screws next to each breaker, can i simply put the hot wire in the breaker the neutral in one screw and the ground next to it on the neutral buss bar? Or do all of the grounds have to be in the same area next to each other and the neutrals all in one area next to each other.

[@davestruthers3384]

Very informative. Thanks

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@davestruthers3384 thank you

[@wholio50]

Thanks, well detailed. To complete the video, i guess something like: to energize the circuit panel, just go outside and pop the meter back ON, should be added at the to end. ✓ Although, i see some comments regarding the meter removal. So, not sure to proceed or not . Other than that, thanks for the video.

[@Erick-bk2ej]

Thanks for the video. Doesn't that panel have ground?

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Not a separate buss bar for ground. Its a main panel

[@Pbell]

Very informative video, just something maybe you didn’t know the main lugs have a torques spec which you should follow. If not torqued those lugs can heat up from expansion and contraction of the aluminum and can lead to a fire down the line if they loosen enough to begin arching.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Does the NEC have a spec on how tight?

[@Pbell]

@@appalachiandiy2415 the NEC says to manufacture specifications, the last time I did a panel which was a reliance, I recall it being 20ft lbs.

[@Pbell]

@@appalachiandiy2415 looking at their manual it states “Torque each connection to the value specified on the load center wiring diagram attached to the enclosure”

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@Pbell Thanks, ill check that out

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@Pbell Ill check on that and see what it says, Thanks!

[@detroitjohn4724]

grounded to a steel rod in the ground outside ?

[@jw261989]

Thank you 🙏 Sr I just changed mine very very valuable information

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thank you!

[@michaelmiranda2944]

Great Video Thank YOu for posting

[@victormontoya7141]

Thanks! Very helpful

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thank you

[@car-cu4fl]

8:14 is the point here that the incoming service wires are the 180deg opposite phases coming out of the ends of a center tapped (center is the neutral) transformer, and that it does not matter which of the phases is placed left or right in the electrical panel, so you just choose left/right based on convenience factors such as the length of each service wire?

[@lesterwatson8519]

Did you not put an bushing and lock nut on the 3 inch knockout for the 4/0 entrance cable?

[@louisnatkin5317]

I'm not an electrician. However, where I live, the homeowner is allowed to do their own electrical as long as permits are pulled and inspections may still be required. Any of the work I have done has always passed. I'm just not a fan of the Square D home line because of the aluminum main bus. However, I like the QO line, the plug on neutral, the approved double tap breakers, and because Square D is DIYer and space saver friendly. I would rather get a GE Powermark from an electrical supply for an application similar to this one. Unfortunately, big box stores carry a lot of GE stuff from China, whereas the electrical supply stores usually order from the Mexico or Puerto Rico plant(s). It makes a difference. Other than that specific panel, I really like the video and your work, sir.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thank you!

[@southerngalcharm4460]

Thank you for this video. I'm about to change out a panel in my shop building, and there's only about 4 breakers. So I'm gonna give it a try. I'll label everything before I switch. Meter is already pulled. So I'm good to go.

[@Mr.Simplistic.]

How did that go?

[@car-cu4fl]

8:49 is the point here that the incoming service wires are aluminum and not copper, and hence need the anti-oxidant conductive grease stuff?

[@mudpuddle8333]

can you answer a simple question.?? why do i see ground wires and neutral wires both attached to the same bar sometimes.. and other times.. they are separate??

[@qwertyuiop-ke7fs]

Great information about the meter. Hard to Google "How to cut power to breaker panel" because it just returns information about cutting power FROM breaker panel to rest of house.

[@muddybuttjenkins2392]

Great video. Explained well.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thank You!

[@Rysdad1]

How does someone replace the meter box if the line in is still connected to the home? Do you climb up on the roof and cut them individually or will you get shocked doing that?

[@ramonqo1]

You need a bushing to protect the three main wires

[@appalachiandiy2415]

where the wires come into the panel?

[@RiverSLV]

@@appalachiandiy2415yeah usually you see the grey pvc male thread or rebake thread sticking through but doesn’t seem like that big of a deal

[@HarveyScott-zy5px]

Without a connector and bushing this will not pass inspection nor is it safe.

[@MeWantHoneycomb]

was about to do this, but we are getting solar and they are putting a new box for us in the process that has a few more slots (we ran out on our current one), will be useful for when i put in the mini split.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Nice

[@pedropereira8924]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏽

[@thedelaniumshow]

I have a question, am I allowed to remove a metre or do I need the permission from hydro company?

[@appalachiandiy2415]

well I didnt get permission. I just did it. They have serial tags that lets them know if someone has taken it off but IDK what they would do anyways.

[@showspotter]

hello, i bought a 50a panel for a tiny house build so i need to run 6awg in to the top of the service panel, do you recommend videos showing where to run your two hots, ground and neutral

[@randypaul5427]

If your service lines are not long enough, could you reverse the panel board, the guts in the main breaker box? I’m speaking of an outdoor panel that has a rain protector on the top of the panel.

[@RallyBlueSubaru]

I do not know why he didn’t flip the panel entirely since his mains come in at the bottom. He must just like the price of #4 wire.

[@RallyBlueSubaru]

They take up a lot of box space the way he has it. 🤷‍♂️ I understand it’s not his main panel, but…

[@robpittstop1797]

My friend's electrical panel was upgraded to one with gcfi - all are gcfi which we can use regluar outlet and if something comes up, the panel would shut down before you get electrocuted. And I will get mine inspected to make sure its up to date but want to consider upgrading to GCFI.

[@luissonoma6255]

What would you do in the even the wire were too short for the new panel, main wires or 12-2? And you said that main wires were 4g thought it was 2/0 THHN…

[@JorgePerez-sg9di]

Very good video

[@josejuka9176]

Profesional Job and safety 🔥

[@sambearing7687]

You're a genius...from complex to DIY.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thanks

[@rcpmac]

i'm surprised you aren't required to put a bushing (or grommet) on the service knock out to cover the rough metal edges.

[@erikkarling2176]

I saw that too. I don't live in his are, but I assumed that he should have a raceway and a bushing at the end to prevent damage to the conductors.

[@ADBBuild]

Looks like the hole went around the fitting that was going through the wall, so the wires aren't able to even touch the box.

[@Beinhartwie1chopper]

Surprised that the neutral and ground wires share a common bar. Since the neutral wire carry a load should they not have their own bar?

[@bnasty267]

You can only do that in the first panel/box after the meter. Subpanels must have them separate. Many codes now require an outside disconnect switch, which counts as the first 'panel' so you must keep them separate in the main breaker panel.

[@Beinhartwie1chopper]

@bnasty267 thank you 👍

[@michaelo3148]

Your neutral is not bonded?

[@allan640]

heh its funny, I had a stink bug living in my box too.... @4:20 in the very top left corner hah

[@inspector830]

Pulling the meter in our county (Florida) gets you a fine with the power company. You must contact them for a shutdown. Also the guage for 200 amp is not 4 guage. You probably mean 4/0 (4 ought) aluminum wire.

[@hugovargas7411]

It is 4/0 aluminum

[@alcab6733]

Great video

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thanks

[@matttafakt]

Be very careful with the neutral. Some meters have the neutral passing straight thru the meter with no disconnect !!!

[@paulsccna2964]

Why did you not install a cut off switch while the power is off from the pole for servicing?

[@moonpiespotlight4759]

This is what the main breaker was for. The original panel didn't have a main breaker.

[@davelundergoesunder]

Thank you for making the video! What size Allen key to remove main power wires?

[@appalachiandiy2415]

3/8

[@cjgalindo6241]

I read in a comment that you could have installed it upsidedown, that would have prevented the 4 gauge cables from traveling through the panel box and just directly into the lug entries, would have helped to avoid working around them every time you change something, I can see the merit in that comment

[@bnasty267]

That's what I would have done. You'll notice that all the writing/labels in the panel are written in both orientations, so there's no 'correct' orientation. Longer service wires running around the box takes up space and is dangerous. Those wires are always live (unless you pull the meter) and essentially unfused, so damaging one while working in the panel could result in a huge arc flash, fire, etc. Entering from the bottom is idea if most of your circuits come in from the top, because you don't have to come anywhere close to the service wires/main lugs when adding circuits.

[@Dallasakers]

Good job.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Thanks!

[@weldthefuture9833]

Sir is it legal to full the metter? Thank you so much

[@weldthefuture9833]

Sir is it legal to pull the metter thank you so much

[@appalachiandiy2415]

There is no law that I'm aware of that would make it illegal, however I've heard some electric companies have fined customers who took it off. I've not run into any issues with mine, so your mileage may vary.. I do know that the smart meters will alert the power co and a tech might show up so be aware of that

[@weldthefuture9833]

Thank you sir!

[@chrisjones5469]

Do not pull your meter, I work for a utility company and can't tell you how many times the jaws are messed up and it arcs. Very dangerous. Also if you have a smart meter the utility company will know right away and think your power went out.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

so how do you pull a meter?

[@drewdoestrucks]

@@appalachiandiy2415 they either flip the disconnect at the pole or use a fancy isolating tool

[@babushkaboi7288]

@@drewdoestrucks yeah and how many non-electrician/wiremen do you know have the authority to do that? Lol

[@drewdoestrucks]

@@babushkaboi7288 we used to do them at the fire department. Then we got the tool to pull them. Then finally they told us it was too dangerous and we had to stop completely.

[@MrJacobShaw]

Me personally I just disconnect the utility from the drip loop to cut power all together. Much safer no worrying about arcing. I’m more concerned about the main feed cables not having a bushing in the cutout.

[@azlisllc]

If you are changing the panel to a 200 don't you also need to change the cables from meter to panel box ?? It's a question

[@faqui1969]

Where's is the bonding connection between outside box and inside box?

[@terryrhuebottom]

I thought it was illegal to mess with the meter. isn't that why the electric company puts that tamper seal on the meter box?

[@Beinhartwie1chopper]

Sehr gut

[@Kashype101]

I remember I did this with a friend but we couldn't remove the meter aep had to do it it was a weekend and for some reason they didn't come so we decided to do it with the cables live man was it dangerous but we got it done just have to be really careful it was an experience t say the least lol

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Wow! Idk if I'd be that daring, glad you made it ok

[@miguelmuniz8944]

Question!!!! You don't get in trouble for remove the lock. Locking the miter ? In the outside of you're house 🤔

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Its possible. Just dont tamper with the meter itself. If you have a smart meter they get a notification of power loss and might check on that but mine is an older meter

[@sscarbon]

I pride myself on DIY projects but good lawd there are so many code violations or stuff that isn't best practice in this video to including your plans to bond a sub panel, no protective bushings/strain relief on your mains, not torquing to manufacture specs, tampering with a meter, not getting a permit or inspection etc. If you're ignorant, you'd watch this video and think this man is a professional as he speaks with so much confidence, he is not. If you insist on doing electrical work at this level, please pull a permit and have your work inspected, that way, if you messed up an inspector can catch it and you're able to remedy the problems.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

This is a main not a sub. If you knew so much about electrical, how did you not know that!? 🤔

[@boardingbear]

Your first problem is placing your confidence in the code inspector 💀

[@socraced6210]

There's a whole long laundry list of code violations here, as others have pointed out in the comments. But one I didn't see is: no grounding system (current nec requires to pound in 2-8' ground rods at least 6" apart and wire them into panel). Just FYI: if Utility Co discovers meter tampering and wiring changes, they can turn off electricity (as a safety hazard) and notify city or county who will then revoke property's certificate of occupancy which means can't occupy or sell the property until passing a lengthy code inspection process. Meanwhile, property insurance can be cancelled and mortgage foreclosed. No joke, leave that meter alone!

[@appalachiandiy2415]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHKnZKWVo6tpgpY

[@thomaskearney8334]

That's nothing. He won't have any problems at all! He just needs to tell them that he made a youtube video of it, so he must totally know what he is doing

[@jonathanatabelo8824]

wow, bud its a informative video on how too. its not a video on requirements, freakin Karen

[@michaelblodgett4704]

Where do live? 😂 I live in Louisiana, and the guy who checks my meter can barely read and write. I don't think he's going to try and take my mortgage.

[@texastoughcarports2115]

So is it legal or illegal to pull the meter out?? Anyone?

[@AAAA-lt9hq]

The shortcuts a lot of self-educated rural builders took in the past are frightening. My house was built in 1965 and I am having a lot of upgrades done by licensed professionals to get as much up to current standards as possible without cutting into the walls.

[@matthewirizarry2584]

why didn't you just flip it and run it throw the top?

[@appalachiandiy2415]

You can. It just seems "upside down" to me

[@KrazyKajun602]

Why didn't you mount it with main breaker at bottom? easier and more room for all electrical from top coming in. I disagree. If you would sheetrock around that panel, when the installer runs his bit around the box, he will surely cut into those wires.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Cut into what wires?

[@travissmith2201]

As a electrician I just got to shake my head.

[@miguelbandin8773]

Why?

[@DejayTrump]

you can not put two different size grounds under the same screw

[@jsfields00]

4/0 not 4 gauge

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Correct! Thank you

[@seanhiggins9806]

I am not a electrician, but I thought power company can only touch the meter. I am doing home renovation and anything involved with meter or telephone poles is power company responsibility. It maybe different regulations in every state but just saying.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

If you talk to an electrician they will tell you never to touch anything in your panel, or the meter. I did, didnt go to jail, didnt get fined, power company didnt scold me, so choice is yours

[@alvinbrink9141]

Could you just turn the box upside down.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

I guess you could, but that would look wierd, lol i dont know if there is anything in code that says anything about that

[@Alabamaweldinginspector]

That is extremely dangerous pulling a meter like that . You should at least be wearing some insulated gloves to prevent electrocution . You could have an arc flash pulling the meter . Normally you should have your power company come out and disconnect the power on the pole but then they want an electrician doing the work and rightfully so . One mistake with a service entrance is all it takes to kill you . Don’t be stupid.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

You got any stats of deaths from doing that? Dont think its common.

[@mauriciochita4113]

Keep the stupid to yourself.

[@oldscuba]

Where is your Ground Buss ? You do not Bond the Neutral and Ground on a Sub Panel.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@oldscuba this is not a sub panel. Its a main

[@oldscuba]

You did...

[@oldscuba]

The neutral buss is insulated from the panel.

[@oldscuba]

My mistake if that's the main. The state I'm in you still must have a ground buss and it's bonded to the neutral buss on a main panel.. Funny how we are a little different all over the country..

[@infinitedaves]

Could have just got that new panel and taken the main breaker out for the old one... The QOM main breaker would have worked for the original panel, saving the little extra money and a whole lot of time

[@johndavies2949]

That's bull. You should leave that panel alone and buy a box with a 200 amp breaker and install it outside to provide protection and disconnect of the service entrance wires.

[@omercansizoglu5626]

Dangerous guidelines for messing up your meterbox

[@David-qn5mr]

This is totally invalid installation in Canada. Wrongly feeder entry, wrong location and wrong wall.

[@davejones3923]

Don't know American code rules but there are some code violations there

[@victorseaton9123]

You installed too small of ground wire for this service.

[@allencolvin4320]

I would do this all myself, except I could get fined, jailed, or potentially injured/killed by tampering with that meter base. I did however, discover that a licensed contractor can put in a new meter base with shut off switches, thus grandfathering my main panel in

[@appalachiandiy2415]

I highly doubt you can be jailed for taking a meter off, (if you know of a law that states this please post it so I can read it), fined or injured, sure. this video is here to help show you how to do it without getting fried. That meter base with shut offs would be nice though.

[@allencolvin4320]

@@appalachiandiy2415 I live in Washington State, on the blue half. Lewis county PUD is over my jurisdiction , it is on their website about tampering with their meters, which are all digital now

[@rcpmac]

@@allencolvin4320 Removing isn't necessarily tampering. It's necessary in order to work on YOUR equipment.

[@dutch4117]

So basically anyone could walk up to the outside of your house at night and completely disconnect the power… interesting.

[@johnkulpowich5260]

H A C K. Wires from meter to new panel not in pipe or protected. And ground looks wrong size

[@Youcanthandleme319]

No one twists the grounds together like that. Don’t do that

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@Youcanthandleme319 can you explain how it's supposed to be done

[@Youcanthandleme319]

@ yeah no problem Sean you land them individually 🤯 I’ve never even seen that before I’m a union electrician been doing it for 19 years braiding wires??? What???

[@miltongonzalez4998]

That's not a #4 wire, it's a #4/0, big difference. This guy doesn't really know what he's doing here.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Actually it's pronounced 4 aught. But thanks for letting me clarify it for you

[@miltongonzalez4998]

@@appalachiandiy2415 Every electrician/engineer knows how it's pronounced, point is you called it "four gauge". But thanks for letting me clarify what you said incorrectly. Not even going get into the unsafe meter removal.

[@Alabamaweldinginspector]

Did you lock out and tag out the meter base or just leave open ? There are so many things wrong in this video you should be banned from You Tube forever .

[@appalachiandiy2415]

Nope, if someone was going to come on my property like that there would be a problem from the start. I live in a rural area. I would love to hear more about whats wrong though, in your opinion

[@brianthomson1794]

Dangerous.....do not do this!!!! hire a professional. many many items missed on this installation. Bushing needed for the main service cable conduit there is no ground on this electrical system....very dangerous. pulling a meter is not allowed. must be done by electrical supply company.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

yes it does need a bushing here is a video for the grounding of this panel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHKnZKWVo6tpgpY I would like to see any rules/law that states a homeowner is not allowed to pull a meter please explain how this is dangerous, Thanks

[@mauriciochita4113]

Yep.and companies need to make money too.

[@chrisrobertson5405]

Imagine a grown man telling you, that is not allowed in your house... big ups to the real men who just get the job done!!!

[@billnewberry1462]

Stop.

[@jamesbeck5519]

I don't like political commercials.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

I agree, however I dont pick the commercials, its google picking them for you

[@ahmadsharifi339]

Lol you can install a breaker and put your wires at the breaker then you can turn off and on power at this panel man you don't need to replace this subpanel

[@davidmacmillan7591]

You should hire a licensed professional to do this as it is illegal to perform this install if you are not a qualified professional as well as extremely dangerous and a serious fire risk. A permit is also needed. Most power companies are replacing meters with remote meters monitored from a central hub which will dispatch a lineman crew if you attempt to remove a meter yourself and you can potentially be arrested for not having proper job number and permitting in place. What you are doing by putting a video like this on KZbin is extremely reckless and shortsighted. Shame on you

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@David MAcMillan Are you the Electrician Police?! It is not a felony to work on your own electrical system, so how you would get arrested for this is beyond me. At best you could possibly get a fine from the electric company for breaking the seal on your meter. As for the fire risk, yes its possible if you installed the panel improperly, but THANK GOODNESS there are channels like mine who take the time to walk you through how to properly install a panel yourself. My meter is not a smart meter so I'm not going to have linemen show up at my house either.

[@MrPhotographer77]

Sounds like a "job security" comment from an electrician.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@MrPhotographer77 for sure!

[@threeeyedpheonix1031]

It is reckless. If you are unaware of the dangers of something as simple as putting a bushing on the service conductors you really shouldn’t be doing that yourself. I’m not being an ass, I’m just concerned for the people watching this.

[@appalachiandiy2415]

@@threeeyedpheonix1031 If you have a video addressing these concerns I would love to watch to educate myself. Or you can list them here if you're concerned about people's safety. This is an educational platform for people to learn, not just trolls

[@UniversidadKerygma]

Great Video