YF-23 Black Widow II - Northrop's Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) That Lost To The YF-22 | Upscaled

[@Dronescapes]

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[@mrmichael0867]

The yf23 looks like it could compete for Gen 6,especially if upgraded with newer technologies. I sincerely believe the f22 was chosen because it was the safer bet(t though I'm sure there were politics involved), the y23 was just too advanced at the time.

[@lknanml]

The 23 was a bit faster and had a slightly smaller radar sig but A LOT of the systems were "upconung" when they went into the downselect program. The F22 turned better. The 23 also made larger contrails and had no thrust vectoring though it had a bigger rear wing surface. Both are amazing aircraft the main problem was the 23 program was not as developed as the 22. The 23 had more bugs and more "coming soon just pretend they are there" parts and systems than the 22. Kind of like how the X32 had to take off a bunch of parts to pass a few tests then put them back on with a "we have it sorted just didn't have time to build it" backlog of features. I somewhat recall and issue with missile storage and high Gs. The YF23 was an awesome plane and would have ended up just as good as the F22. Both programs were phenomenal. In the end the F22 program was just slightly ahead and more complete.

[@jaybee9269]

Plus they wanted to preserve the industrial base and what was Lockheed building at the time?

[@lknanml]

@@jaybee9269 I know I know!!! They were working on the software for the Mars Climate Orbiter. Shortly thereafter a conversation took place which went something like "What do you mean metric?"

[@lknanml]

And making arcade game systems. No really.....

[@jaybee9269]

@@lknanml >> They weren’t making many airplanes at the time!🫣😵‍💫

[@sticksitsme]

I’ve lived my entire life in Lancaster and Rosamond which is literally 15 -20 minutes from the Edwards AFB tarmac. The things I’ve had the pleasure of seeing flying “just cause” has been an awesome thing to grow up seeing randomly literally all the time.

[@Ben_Gunner]

Grateful for this being shown 👏 She is such a beautiful aircraft and just as fearsome looking. The pic of the B2 coming into land and the Widow taxiing on the runway below is just perfect. Politics...

[@Dronescapes]

👍👍

[@paulm749]

LOT'S of good information here that I haven't heard or seen elsewhere. Well done! In all my reading about these two planes, I can't help but believe that the YF23 ultimately promised to have higher performance in supercruise, stealth and range, but that Lockheed knew how to work the politics of the procurement process more effectively. We still got a very good plane, but we might have had an even better one...

[@brinkee7674]

Another reason that played into the decision was that Northrop had gone way over budget on the B2. Magnificent plane but the cost is insane I hope to see the YF23 reborn into Japan's new fighter. Who knows if they build it but stealth is very expensive

[@daviidtaplin1115]

Two different aircraft the F-22 /F23 both are great it may be the only time that both should have been in production.Both are way ahead of there time.

[@Dronescapes]

Agreed

[@konstantinosmichos5749]

this should be the NextGen Aircraft of US...

[@Dronescapes]

It is indeed a wonderful fighter

[@brewtown46614]

japan has acquired the rights to it

[@commonavionics6069]

Outdated at this point

[@Dronescapes]

@@commonavionics6069 might be, but still a wonderful aircraft.

[@commonavionics6069]

@@Dronescapes No doubt, it isn’t a surprise it has partially inspired the NGAD apparently.

[@peppapig9987]

I'm a simple man. I see YF-23 I click.

[@Dronescapes]

🙂👍❤

[@gregandark8571]

The same.

[@dom3810]

It’s insane to think that the F22 was designed in the late 80s

[@njez7563]

Whats crazier is fhe Boeing Quiet Bird that was made in the 60s

[@125israel]

Dr Yu-Ping Liu died in 2018 aged 72.

[@brianwrynn3109]

A guy I knew at Northrop said that when the first F-23 was rolled out to present to a bunch of big-wigs, upon power-up it began to flap its control surfaces like a wounded turkey. This provoked laughter from the onlookers. I do not know if the story is true but if someone else here was at the event they could respond.

[@Dronescapes]

Interesting story, I wonder if anyone can contribute

[@trenazer]

It was the stability augmentation system which on the ground tried to correct the airplane flight moving the surfaces at every bump on the tarmac. it was later corrected.

[@rockcvn71]

Isn't GE in China now? Anyway super Kool hands down YF23, every time I watch this video,my heart goes out to all Northrop Grumman, and MCDONALD Douglas folks who gave their all for the protection and patriotism that went into creating a aircraft to keep America secure. You guys should've won.❤️

[@_BusterHighmen]

Northrop Corporation developed the YF23 with McDonnell Douglas between 1982 to 1991. Northrop didn’t merge with Grumman until 1994

[@YouTube_user3333]

It will be funny when they roll out the NGAD plane and it’s a YF-23 😆

[@joeygay7115]

This could still be a viable option for the US. Tech is more advanced now which would make this the top fighter in tue skys

[@cliffcampbell8827]

I remember working on a Pratt & Whitney, 4 stroke, single piston engine in small engines class in high school and my mom used General Electric appliances (like a blender or maybe it was a hand held food mixer {the kind with 2 counter rotating beaters}). It just seems funny to me (not funny "ha-ha" but funny "weird") knowing I've interacted with very basic, low tech equipment manufactured by the same companies that produce cutting edge, highly classified military equipment. I love the look of both planes. What I don't understand is WHY wasn't the YF-23 chosen. It was even available an entire month ahead of the YF-22...maybe someone over at McDonald/Douglas was buddy-buddy with those on capitol hill more so than those at Lockheed. Maybe McDonald/Douglas promised some favors/kickbacks/under-the-table stuff to those who pick the big military contracts.

[@TheDwightMamba]

Northrop was dealing with delays on the B2 and the YF-22 showed up with thrust vectoring. It wowed the powers that be into thinking it wouldn't need to dogfight, but could also dogfight. I think the better jet lost too. The YF-23 had been doing refuels at all speeds and even opened the weapons bay for the judges. They should have made them simulate a battle.

[@profo4544]

6th gen fighter from the 80s, diamond wing complete unique design.

[@constantinelheman]

The most beautiful jet fighter ever made. But sometimes I wonder if it is cost effective to be used in real battle.

[@nachitobody]

They next 6g This plane is the Best of the Best , all times. This plane is the GOAT

[@Reepicheep-1]

Black Widow II / Gray Ghost is amazing! Hope the rumor the Japanese are considering for themselves is true. Widow & Raptor probably caused a few hemmorhages in the KGB.

[@koyotekola6916]

I think the AF likes Lockheed fighters and Northrup bombers. I was on the Martin avionics design team for the YF-23, partnered with McDonnell Douglas and Westinghouse. I worked on one particular sensor. When the YF-22 was chosen, the Air Force decided to put our sensor on the F-22. I'm not bragging, because it was our chief systems engineer who oversaw the development and showed us how to design the best optimal sensor. The AF liked him a lot except for one thing, which I can't discuss. He taught me one great thing - Quaternion matrices. Now some of you may think quaternions have been obsoleted by Newton calculus. That's what the other team thought, too.

[@elijahprasad7884]

Which kind of Math did you guys use on the YF-23? We got Quaternion Matrices, and what else?

[@koyotekola6916]

@@elijahprasad7884 I'm not sure what your asking, because we used all kinds of math from simple addition to simple divide. Quaternions were only used selectively on certain functions that they were well suited for.

[@elijahprasad7884]

@@koyotekola6916How were Quaternions used for the sensor?

[@koyotekola6916]

@@elijahprasad7884 I cannot answer that, Elijah. Sorry.

[@elijahprasad7884]

@@koyotekola6916 Is it classified? Thank you anyway🥇

[@plebian44]

the best medium range stealth attack aircraft

[@13BulliTs]

Still the most beautiful and fastest plane ever made even under the standards of today!

[@redlabel9294]

Yes, but sort of. The SR71 is the most beautiful aircraft ever designed. If we eliminate that, then yes... the F23 is unmatched

[@deankoko6691]

Sometimes it is not how good your fighter jet is that wins you the contract when two jets are very close in capability but who you know in the Pentagon.

[@kevinferrin5695]

It's beautiful and mean looking at the same time. It looks like it's intent on eating you up.

[@Dronescapes]

👍👍

[@lincolnflemming1631]

Greatest 👍🙏❤️

[@stevendegiorgio3143]

I have the model in 1/48 scale by Hobbyboss.I love that plane.

[@Dronescapes]

👍

[@AtroposLeshesis]

CONTRACT AWARDED TO THE BLACK WIDOW ATF YF 23

[@ronjon7942]

Nice work

[@johnforealdoe8999]

Should have developed F/A-23 as an attack aircraft and let the F-22 handle pure air superiority, like money matters. Imagine a strike package with these two aircraft in it.

[@jogon1511]

Such a beautiful aircraft why they never went for this i dont know.

[@n20prostock97]

Politics...

[@mikecrelevate]

Fascinating not just that the YF23 was a faster Supercruiser than the Raptor but that the Northrop Design was faster with the GE YF120 engine and the F22 was (presumably still is?) faster with the P&W YF119 engine. I get that the airframes and related tech are different but did anyone expect this? How does that happen? 🤔

[@4LowDaboyz]

The yf-23 was a 6th generation fighter in a 4th generation world

[@njez7563]

I love these videos very cool

[@TheKasperlkopf]

Insane video

[@world9587]

I always love to watch this video

[@turkey0165]

The nation of Japan knows a good thing when they see it. And that's why they're gonna make a new Modern version of the YF23 and not buy any of the current American fighters from American manufactures! No PC pentagon BS for Japan!

[@marcogoncalves8631]

Lack of thrust vectoring May have been a factor why it wasn’t chosen .

[@brizzy991]

Id say stability look at that diamond wing looks really bad for lift it might be ok at higher speeds but id say disastrous at lower speeds how many diamond wings have you seen chosen for fighters?,

[@joeclaridy]

If you look the requirements for the ATF, thrust vectoring shouldn't have been a factor when the whole point of the ATF was to defeat Soviet air defense and long-range weaponry.

[@njez7563]

It was just as manoverable as the yf22 tho

[@TheDwightMamba]

​@@brizzy991the diamond shape was for low speed stability that didn't compromise high speeds. It also worked great for stealth. The diagonal "rudders" were huge. That's where the control came from.

[@rosevitelli5814]

Wow that plane is beautiful what the hell were they 🤔

[@desertroadgames5702]

I wish the ATF-23 would have won

[@selinRedito-bd4vp]

Why can boeng - northrop build the grey ghost same size as super f18 hornet with vectoring exhaust and sell it to other countries who are interested on the design.and I think lots of countries are interested it is a revolutionary design.

[@franz289]

I was watching the news when they announced a competition between the 2 planes and it was decided that F-22 would get the contract because it was more cost effective. Nothing wrong with 23 but it just simply cost more to make.

[@rooseveltd.3308]

Sure seems like this plane should be built today!

[@hipoman8087]

Its continuing in development with Japan. the extra $ will help and this fighter will help japan defense. From what I gathered they approched US & Northrop-McDonnel Douglas on joint development . Yhey were not having success with theirs and taking too long. great idea!

[@dallasc9877]

the 22 is flying today, i can confirm, because i live by Nellis. So lets put the 23 into service as well.

[@un9ty]

Rest in peace Dr Liu

[@christianvernaghi3966]

Is he dead?! 😳

[@un9ty]

​@@christianvernaghi3966Yes, he passed away in 2018.

[@christianvernaghi3966]

Ohh...😢​@@un9ty

[@brizzy991]

Diamond wing looks like a serious lift and stability issue at a glance

[@steveleach4973]

Like the F-15? 😅

[@johnarmstrong7729]

I was under the impression, that whichever manufacturers didn't get their plane accepted, were guaranteed to be a major subcontractor by way of compensation. I may be wrong...?

[@jacksonboone8396]

This would still beat the junk35 today.

[@jarbarian]

YF-23 > YF-22. The better plane lost.

[@michelbrown1060]

Magnificent bird. sensuous. elegant lines Just love it. . .

[@lincolnflemming1631]

Best

[@frankbaker0460]

It is a good moment to the United State🇺🇸

[@cornellkirk8946]

“Radar loves a flat plate or a sharp edge” F117 *whistling*

[@joesc641]

This is a great plane but no thrust vectoring and wing design are main reasons they did not pick the YF-23.

[@tylero2112]

like it couldnt be added.... this thing will be the base design of the 6th gen. watch....

[@elijahprasad7884]

What was bad about the wing design?

[@elijahprasad7884]

@@tylero2112 All the 6th gen renderings look a lot like the F-23.

[@wileyeyefloaty665]

They housed the engines a particular way with specific outlet ducts to further stealth properties. From what I've seen a out yf23 it was maneuverable enough without vectoring to barely be out rated by the 22. Thus briging back the political aspect of the winner there was many factors in play to have caused the raptor to be chosen. I myself don't agree with it though the 22 is by no means bad when I say that. The widow was just something else. Foreshadowing future setups that would be showing the capacity all wrapped into the yf23 as it stood. A true symbol of its time

[@winncollins2356]

Should of put both in production with both the f-22 and f-23 would allow the US to dominate the sky's for years in my opinion I understand a lot of cost but how do you put a price on safety of our country and most of all our pilots during war

[@steveleach4973]

I agree with you 100% money wasn't the issue with the way democrats always throw it at different countries.

[@byhyew]

People couldn't see into the future. In the 1990s Russia was struggling just not to starve, and the best planes China was producing were Mig-21s improved with 1980s American avionics... The YF22/YF23 was one to two generations ahead technologically, not to mention the American airforce's huge numerical advantage, so it really wasn't necessary spending double to keep both.

[@MrStimcat]

For me, it was a pure political decision. Northrop already got the contract for the B-2, so why not give it this time to the rival to keep some diversity up (if the the product fulfills the needs). Secondly, the F-22 was more agile and showed not required weapon use and thrust vectoring. Thirdly, the F-22 had a more conventional frame, so people would accept that more than a radical new design (of the YF-23). And many more points. I disagree with all points. 1) If I need the best fighter I don't care about previous contracts. 2) I don't mark weapon use as a plus in my book when it wasn't a requirement. 3) If a new frame, even if it is unconventional, proves to be more useful, I choose it. The whole selling point for the F-35 is now that it doesn't have to dogfight because of stealth and btw no one cared that Lockheed had already the contract for the F-22... Don't get me wrong, I like the F-22 a lot but if it was me at the table to decide I'd choose the YF-23.

[@Petri-e7r]

I read a book of the YF-23 and seen videos like this, mostly Paul Metz telling introducing the YF-23. As I see the YF-23 was more futuristic looking that 4 gen world, it was so much ahead of it's time. If you look now blueprints of the 6 gen planes, you can see features of the YF-23 and the new bomber desings have as well these features. And certainly much of the data inside of the gen 6 fighter jets will have roots from the YF-23. I quess it was too futuristic looking and too good fighter jet to be chosen. YF-23 was outstanding and better fighter plane, but was not chosen.

[@jaybee9269]

Most of this looks to be from the “Web of Secrecy” video. One thing I never understood was the little derpy attempt at thrust-vectoring above the thermal troughs of the exhausts.

[@Shadowboost]

It didn't have thrust vectoring. The original requirements of the ATF program required short field capability for supply and rearm. Thus it was designed with the intakes sized for thrust reversers. Although they were never fitted. The production version would have slimmed down the engine humps significantly and it would have been even stealthier and faster

[@slmyatt]

Omg. The YF-23 is shaped similar to the fictional Firefox from Clint Eastwood movie.

[@tylero2112]

this plane will be brought back . mark my word. it loooked 6th gen when we were going to 5th...saw this thing at the air force museum down the street is gorgeous you dont understand it until you see it and you get confused how the hell it lost to the f22

[@Dronescapes]

It seems that Japan might get it

[@dannywaller4397]

They should have picked both and figured it out later

[@SLS9033]

I'd make it part of the fleet now. Get rid of the F-18, 15, and 16 then we have the 22, 23 and 35. Their problem solved we win everyone else loses.

[@ShanenWay]

Why hasn't the Black Widow not been taken up with a different country?

[@lincolnflemming1631]

Great greatest USA 👍💗👍💗💗

[@evanbeers1644]

Isn't the YF23 the one that the f22 beat out due to politics? Or was it a different plane?

[@Dronescapes]

The same. This video is the story of the plane that never was

[@evanbeers1644]

@@Dronescapes can't wait

[@Dronescapes]

@@evanbeers1644 It's VERY interesting, since the test pilots are explaining a lot of details

[@roadkill-uk]

without a doubt ahead of time

[@Dronescapes]

@@roadkill-uk Agreed!

[@waynejackson4890]

I'm hoping the F-23 will be reborn as our next super fighter after the F-22.

[@joeclaridy]

If you look at artist rendering of proposed 6th generation fighters, the inspiration is obvious. None of them looks like the F-22.

[@blech71]

It’s quite sad that it was said iirc; that the 23 was “too” stealthy wrt to coatings and other approaches. As if it was a waste and over done. I think this was interesting and tbf a dumb assessment by the other side.

[@turkey0165]

If the YF-23 was just as maneuverable as the YF-22who gave a s***, whether it had Thrust Vectoring or not, thrust vectoring is just expensive and something more to go wrong.!

[@johnforealdoe8999]

Should have developed F-23 as an attack aircraft and let the F-22 handle air superiority. Like money matters.

[@RogueBeatsARG]

Wait, Wonder Woman had a Invisible F-104?

[@godsgripkitsofficial3452]

Just to let everyone know you can personally see this aircraft at the western museum of flight.

[@Dronescapes]

Thanks for the info ♥️🙏

[@henrypark7381]

No thrust vectoring, pthbbb! That's horse shhhoe...uh. Yeah, I'm sure this was justified in that; they knew the f22 was going to be the chosen fighter. While the f 23 was quietly held in some back hangar, just waiting. Waiting to be the testbed of future EW, and High Energy Weapons. That's why it was gutted. The tech just needed to be invented, and then installed: installed in an already produced and forgotten hyper stealthy jet, and then flown around going, "YIPPIE!"

[@houseofmine]

the plane we should have got...

[@AtroposLeshesis]

6TH GEN ALREADY APPROVED.

[@brinkee7674]

Story says when they stuck the model of YF23 on the pole they use to shoot radar at plane. The radar only came back with readings from the pole and it was like the plane wasn't even there. The pole was designed to emit very low radar signature and it still totally washed out the plane

[@literallyshaking8019]

Lockheed has better lobbyists than Northrop, simple as.

[@redlabel9294]

Sexiest 5th gen fighter. Not even close. I find the F22 the ugly sister in comparison. I wish the F23 had won out.

[@richardkremer5830]

trying to sell a state of the art product to a bunch of duulards, requires more than excellence. History shows, that snake oil is required, when selling something beyond the IQ of the buyer. Our top brass is just plain stupid.

[@rbr8931]

Missiles faster than bullets🤔?

[@Shadowboost]

Yes, of course. Missiles can go Mach 4

[@johnback0007]

Are you OK buddy? 😂😂

[@Xeus1985]

For me the YF-23 was the winner. This Astethics just amazing Plane that should get picked over the F-22. Sure The F-22 is still amazing but the YF-23 got more potential.

[@กมลวังนาทัน-ผ4ฒ]

😢

[@Agent-sb5jy]

I think we built it...it's better than the Raptor....it's a secret plane. You do realize we have weapons that are Top-Secret. We don't publish all of our capabilities...example: F-22' s fly off carriers 😵 (Retired Navy) bet ya' didn't know that.

[@MrCcoolg]

I always believed that it was possible to fly F22's from carriers. Years ago, when they were testing both the 23 & the 22, I read in Janes Aircraft that the Navy had been doing evals for both. Part of the requirements they had was that the nose gear needed to be sturdier for catapult launches. I can't say for sure bc of how long it's been but I remember seeing a photo of an F23 on a carrier deck. I said then and Still believe it should have been the replacement interceptor for the TomCat. It was faster, had stealth, had slightly longer legs and the dihedral wings supposedly made carrier landings easier.

[@cliffcampbell8827]

I didn't KNOW the F-22 was carrier capable, but I had my suspicions. The things that kept me from believing even more that these low observable craft were carrier capable were 1: the catch hook (drag hook? The bar that scrapes along the deck designed to grab one of those 4 arrester cables) and folding the wings to save space on the carrier, those things would increase it's radar signature?...the radio waves that bounce off the craft back to the radar sending waves looking for flying military stuff.

[@professionalprocrastinator8103]

I think you're delusional

[@jonathangabel8216]

The Horten 229 doesn't belong into this documentation, it's not a stealth aircraft just because its a flying wing design with wings made out of wood and "crushed carbon".

[@commonavionics6069]

The 229 was NOT stealthy.

[@-aoiwaraiotoko1441]

これってさあ、尾翼取って無尾翼機にすればいいんじゃないの?

[@mohamedjabar9499]

هههههه…

[@jeryjoe9739]

6th generation coming soon fy23

[@JoemarieBobes]

Eh binta nyo na yan sa pinas YF23 na yan para nd na kayu magalala sa FJ nayan please..

[@jeffreystonesr.9505]

#1

[@imfloridano5448]

kim jung un and vladimir putin agree with this video 😁