Adjusting the KingSong S22 Charger Output

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Only attempt this fix if you feel comfortable working around electronics and already understand the basic issues being addressed in this video.

[@EUCWayOfLife]

Thank you for this! I've been asking about this for weeks haha both my s22's don't fully charge app usually says 99% but I still got 52mi on my range test =) Keep up the awesome work and videos bud!

[@RickBarford]

Marty -- and by extension, Roger........Thanks for posting up this tip. A little backstory -- I'm a Brit who worked half my adult life in R&D in California, Texas and Washington State, I now live (and ride) in The Algarve in Portugal, where I am now retired. Six months ago bought a S22 Pro. Having never 'wheeled' before and new to this, I noticed when I reached a skill level enough for some adventure-riding onto trails for longer rides, that my wheel was slowly and incrementally no longer reaching 100% charge. In fact, topped out a couple of days ago at just 122volt and showing just 88% charge - I could not get it higher. Thinking at first, - and clutching-at-straws, that it was possibly due to low winter temperature effects, bringing my wheel indoors (from my unheated stand-alone motorcycle garage)....... had no improvement effects. So....... I tried your tip on moving the pot in the stock charger and it worked! I chased the pot increase bit-by--bit and now am back to 125.4 volts and showing 100% charge on both EUCWorld App and Kingsong App. I have concerns over how and why this happened, especially as looking at the BMS table for both battery banks, all cells are up to voltage (with no laggards!) and balanced to within 0.01volt of each other. Any idea if this fix addresses 'the disease' or just 'the symptom'? As the only euc rider in Southern Portugal (that I am aware of), I exist vicariously particularly through your posted videos -- as well as Roger's and Dawn's individual posts as well as your' combined group outings. So please keep posting. Safe Riding! .......... Tchau-Tchau............ Rick

[@drumbri]

We are fortunate to have riders such as Roger and yourself to bring this information to the community. Thank you Marty! One of my other hobbies is sim racing in VR and you remind me of Barry Roland who’s KZbin channel is Sim Racing Garage. He reviews and takes apart components and peripherals used to build and operate racing simulators.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Thank you :-)

[@ludens5319]

Ya I was at average 124 volts now I’m sitting on 126.50 volts this video definitely helped

[@Kickersoccer69]

Good job, Marty, especially as even with Voltage meter its a hassle to read out the max voltage!

[@BunnyslippersEUC]

This was very useful.

[@604wheels]

Very educational.... Thanks.

[@ratmanmurray7137]

Marty mate ... that small amount of turning of the pot, here in Australia... is referred to as a 'bee's ball'... which is a little over a 'cnut hair'.... haha. Why on earth would KS send chargers out that were not correct? I don't understand their thinking?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

LOL - thanks for that :-)

[@ratmanmurray7137]

@@ElectricUnicycles Any time mate... happy to be of assistance

[@dirt.surfer]

After thinking about this Marty I think you made a mistake making this video even with a disclaimer. I noticing charge results for 100 percent is slightly varied but the range seems to be half a volt. Now because of this s22 owners are going to play with things they never should have, this could lead to problems. Is it really worth potential problems for a half volt gain?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I don't believe in censorship or self-censorship. I prefer to treat people as adults and let them decide if it's worth it :-)

[@XtianApi]

. 05 volts at the top, if looking at a capacity vs voltage graph, the amount of capacity in that last. 05 volts is extremely small. Not saying I disagree with this video, but I don't mind pushing the cells to allow some hard braking. Also depending on how long their saturation charge is, probably till .1 C of charge current, at high charge currents you're not going to get a full absolute fully charged cell because after the cell rests the voltage will fall a bit. In order to get a full 4.2, if you're doing a somewhat typical saturation stage, then you would have to overcharge to cell a bit. Also, I'd say viewers should get a meter. They are cheap. That way you don't need to charge the wheel again before you know the result. Also also, they probably set the voltage at the charger. But I'm higher current situations, you can have significant voltage drop. Things I design will use sense wires that don't carry current to detect voltage at the end of the wire. It's why anker chargers are so good, if I do say so myself, wink wink.

[@TechMan042]

Thank you

[@patrickmckowen2999]

Good info

I would not do it "blind". Sure. Make the adjustment with poweroff if that makes you feel more safe. But then keep the app ON while charging to see if it overcharge. You might adjust to high, and waiting doing the next measurements untill after it is overcharged is not good. But... everybody should understand that when the battery is plugged in the charger, you will not see the voltage increase untill the battery is charged to the same voltage.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I doubt this charger is capable of outputting too high of a voltage. When I increased it by ~1/8th of a turn, the charger LED's flashed continuously and the charger did not output a voltage.

[@roghaj]

There is a safety built into the wheel. If the voltage is higher than allowable it will display "Monomer overpressure"

[@Kickersoccer69]

Beside the other two answers. if you would adjust -for example- the charger to 127 Volt, that would not matter, as the BMS protects from overcharging and woud stop when reached full 4,2 Volts per cell.

[@thefoss721]

Great video I was wondering what was happening as well with the battery, mine was only charging to around 90% or just over . Also my wheel would have a bms error when charging from 0-70 ish % , kS sent me a new BMS to instal I was gonna ask is that the KS app your using? I usually use the darknessbott app

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I'm using the KingSong app (Android). Sounds like you had a real problem though.

[@erCostinha]

many people will blow up their houses. good job marty

[@ElectricUnicycles]

LOL Oh well :-)

[@dirt.surfer]

Yes this is strange I may want to try this. When I got mine originally it charged to 126.6 I was like nice. Then I updated the bms and bad things happened. I had the euc for 2 days had to send back, it has been flashed and reprogrammed just got it back a few days ago and I noticed I'm not even reaching 4 I didn't know why when out of the box originally I was getting slightly higher then 4.2.

[@robertbarel896]

I have a question - I am coming from technical background and I own the S22 . multimieter from professional company like UNI model 33 says in it';s specification that it's best accuracy is SPECIFICATION: DC Voltage: 200mV / 2000mV / 20V / 200V / 500V - best accuracy: +/- (0.5%+2) that means if we measure 120V DC - the actual voltage can range from 120 - 0.5% -2 = 120 -0.6 - 2 = 117.4 V on the lower side to 120 + 0.5% + 2 = 122.6 . So even professional voltmeter reading of 120VDC can be actually anything between 122.6 to 117.4. So how do you trust voltmeter by kingsong BMS software about 1 V difference that you start changing volts ? if you ask me the actual voltagfe of the cells is anythinmg between 110V to 130V and it changes from unit to unit and the BMS numbers are no where near . even in the manual they say there is +/- 3% error so your 1V undecharge is not something you can rely from the BMS .

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I agree that the A2D converters that the wheels use is not instrument grade accurate. But for 100+ volt wheels the voltage is not off by more than 1-volt based on my measurements in the past. I do know that I'm getting more charge on the batteries with the higher output from the charger.

[@robertbarel896]

@@ElectricUnicycles i believe you - be careful not to get it over charged . these cells are like a bomb and playing with them is something I wouldn't do especially after the New York thing. If anything i want to charge it 10% less than maximum so I know I avoid heat and problems . I don't care riding less .

[@ElectricUnicycles]

@@robertbarel896 Be sure to fully charge your wheel periodically (so the cells can be balanced by the BMS) otherwise your cells can become badly unbalanced which can also lead to a battery pack failure. Also, the BMS will not allow the wheel to be charged with too high of a voltage. All modern wheels will simply stop charging if too high of a voltage is present. Lots of safeguards in our 2020+ wheels 🙂

[@robertbarel896]

@@ElectricUnicycles it's true but I would leave the potentiometer and wouldn't touch it because I have no idea what is the real voltage . you will get more juice if you raise the voltage but I have no idea if it will turn out that overcharged your cells,

[@ItsYeBoiSpongeBob]

wonder if this could be used to charge higher voltage wheels with 100v chargers if they have the same plugs

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Absolutely not. The amount that you can change the voltage is probably within a couple of volts.

[@skiddysm]

Always plug your charger into a surge protector first then into the wheel. Charging to 80% for longer life is a myth I can link a video if you need it! Good luck

[@skiddysm]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppjVaGCYaMp1o5I

[@DamianLesiuk]

It's not a myth. Automaker like Tesla recommend this to prolong life of bateries. Even phone companies like Apple or Samsung do it.

[@RonnieRides]

@@DamianLesiuk it applies to single cells, tesla have active balancing in their packs that balances the cells so it's possible in their packs, on EUC packs we only balance at the end of the charge so if you do this on an EUC the cells will become unbalanced.

[@SamClegg]

@@RonnieRides but isn't the S22 in this regard. It's the first wheel with smart BMS and I heard it can do active balancing without charging to 100... Just like the telsa. Is my information wrong?

[@RonnieRides]

@@SamClegg first the discussion regarding charging to 80% is generic and not specific to S22 and recommending it for EUCs is very bad. Second the Smart BMS on the KS is basically there to tell you the health of the packs and the cells, it still balances just as any other bms at the en of the charge cycle when the cells are over a certain threshold, now I believe you can set the threshold in the application in form of percentage, say 80%, what that means i practice I don't know.

[@edcampstore965]

To increase voltage, do I turn clockwise or counter-clockwise? Thnx for your help.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Clockwise. A tiny bit.

[@edcampstore965]

Perfect, thnx Marty.

[@ShykeProdz]

When you turn this device, it's adjusting the voltage or amperage of the charger ? 🤔

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Voltage

[@ShykeProdz]

@@ElectricUnicycles okay thanks. Is there any way to increase the amperage ?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

@@ShykeProdz No

[@Sakicro1]

Good to know this. Exact reason why i bought a new charger for my 4 year old inmotion v10 ( it lost charging power ). I tested my charger with the voltmeter and figured that its weaker for about 2,5 volts. Marty one question. Why didn't you connect the voltmeter directly to the charger and measure the volts while you were twisting the regulator? Or that is not possible?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

As I discussed in the preamble, I wanted to provide a solution for people who don't own a multimeter. In addition, the S22 charger does not output a charging voltage until it's attached to the wheel. So you would have to splice in some cables to read the voltage.

[@roghaj]

Another 2 reasons are: in order to measure the charger output voltage you need to do it before a relay inside the charger that activates current to the plug. Also it isn’t useful having the charger output the 126 V you would assume is correct as it does not get the wheel to charge to 126 V. This method actually will accomplish that goal.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Good points. I didn't want to get too far into the weeds so I skipped the relays details.

[@JannoDL]

@@roghaj could i do this with my V5F... With any charger? Btw thanks to Marty for another thorough info/repair/diy video. 😀

[@Kickersoccer69]

@@JannoDL Normally this works with every charger. On old charger its even easier to put the voltage meter just on the Charge plug output and adjust then.

[@thefoss721]

I heard your not supposed to have the charger plugged into the wheel before you plug into the wall? Or does that not apply in this situation?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

That's generally the case with Gotway wheels. The charge ports on KingSong wheels are not live so it doesn't really matter.

[@thefoss721]

Ohhh gotcha that makes sense! Much appreciated

[@drumbri]

@@thefoss721 The FOSSss!!!!

[@thefoss721]

@@drumbri haha yup that’s me ;) love the stoked energy brotha

[@Whoooaaaa]

I adjusted my charger for that sam reason. They did not put out correct voltage. If you open up your charger thers a small screw with a dab of sealant on it to keep it from moving. That's the potentimeter. Thats how to adjust. CAUTION ⚡

[@ardubt]

WARNING: There's one more thing to consider that Kingsong may be taking into account when they calibrate these power supplies for mass production. They may be leaving a touch of standard headroom so that the batteries are balanced at a slightly higher voltage. This headroom allows you to brake. If you actually could charge the batteries to their theoretical limit, whatever that is for your particular set of batteries, and you take off moving to high speed, leaning back hard in an emergency braking condition might produce no response. There's nowhere for the power to go during regenerative braking. Worst case, maybe it could cause a thermal runaway. I'm not saying that this isn't a valid and interesting tweak. I'm just saying that you should be very careful about doing it and test your brakes or ride slowly for the first few miles.

[@YourAubsome]

it won't cause the wheel to not brake... it will cause the cells to get overcharged (past 4.2 volts) - which is very bad for the lifespan of the cells

[@THEUSISSSA]

@@YourAubsome@ardubt so you guys don’t recommend doing this to the charger? A lot of people seem to say cell balancing is important, you disagree?

[@dialecticalmonist3405]

Do you have the T40 cells?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

No. 50e's

[@vladimirwaas3988]

I think it's kind of a scam by the manufacturer. They replaced the MOSFET with a 125V type on a 126V battery. They deliberately set the charger not to charge this battery to 126V.

[@oldtrappertom]

Adjusting charger output according to values shown in app means relying on components within the wheel sending binary data and the interpreting of the app ... might mislead. Components may be not perfectly calibrated and algorithms may have their flaws too. Better people invest a few bucks for a multimeter 🙂 Your being disappointed about yourself if still riding a wheel in two years made me smile. Obviously you have a brilliant pension and a very very lovely wife. Although my wife is of course lovely too I only own 4 wheels and she never understands why sooooo many. Okay, mten3 being approved because of its rucksack form factor and me training tricks and acrobatics. Rs approved because of fun and fast enough for my dog in the forest. The Nik+ is questionable in her eyes but finally she understood that in the winter season hereover a better waterresistance is a major advantage over just fun. But every time she notices the Tesla in the garage she points my attention to ebay and vice versa ... Tesla seems to be too much. Sigh ...

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I'm providing information to people. They can or cannot use it 🙂 And in this case the multimeter is not useful since the charger output is disabled until it's connected to the wheel.

[@Kickersoccer69]

this new type of charger (same as on GW Master btw) will not let you read the voltage from the charge plug as on other chargers. Reason is, the charging only starts after 4-5 seconds after beeing plugged in. Difficult to read the voltage via meter, you would need to unscrew the charger completly.

[@laurv8370]

Cheating! You have only 7 screws on your desk! >P

[@Kennk6]

MAX 4.2V please don’t 4.2+ 🔥🔥💥🔥💥💥💥🔥🔥🔥💥💥🔥⚡️☄️💥🔥😬

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Nothing to worry about 🙂 Our wheel BMS's manage the input voltage (your charger output is not applied directly to the individual cells). If your charger puts out too high of a voltage, the BMS shuts down the charging process and nothing happens. All good 🙂

[@curtflirt2]

Not liking Kingsong and their attitude. They refuse to fix the wheel properly, they refuse to hand out proper chargers, they refuse to listen to the people. They've become very narcissistic in a way

[@dirt.surfer]

Yes last kingsong for me, the entire design of the upper half is a joke. Seat useless, charge ports and power position are terrible, trolly handle also worse ever on a euc, the flappy pos handle in the back.... also abysmal noone wants this and it's early yet but that 4 slider goofy suspension I know is going to require regular attention. I do feel safe on it, stable the ride is good suspension should have been air I find the spring to stiff not a smooth ride.

[@enzog.1230]

don't try this at home😀👍