Electric v Petrol - How Much Does 100k Miles Of Fuel Cost!? (2019)

This video has been superseded by a newer version: Coming soon
Ever wondered how much 100,000 miles worth of fuel costs in a petrol car compared to an Electric Car? Neither have I, but here I answer it anyway!
Link to Best Tariff Video: • Best Electricity Tarif...

[@paulcarnall791]

Roughly the figures I worked out before taking the plunge in 2017. Of course your videos helped me make a decision. Over 2yrs into EV ownership now thanks to guys like you.

[@beefiron]

I'm diving in on Wednesday. 2015 24Kwh Leaf. And yes, channels like this one have really helped to get me there.

[@richardburnett3757]

You laid it all out on the table perfectly sir and your mini rant was on topic because you proved that only using the public charging network was still cheaper than ICE.

[@tonybriard3070]

I charge at my local Lidl/Pod-Point raid charger which is free at the moment, and I top up at home prior to long trips. I have done 1800 miles for a cost of approximately £15. Long may it continue.

[@lukaswint7067]

Tony Briard how much is a new battery when it goes bad?

[@tonybriard3070]

Luke Free fall Kia gives a 7 year warranty, there is no problem with battery reliability.

[@RWBHere]

@@lukaswint7067 How much is a new engine when it goes bad? The 'bad battery' argument is as pointless as my question. There are Tesla's around which have racked up more than 500,000 miles. Vis: sites.google.com/view/teslamiles

[@kj_H65f]

We put about 4,000 miles on our 500e in the last 3 months, have paid a grand total of less than 100 bucks in charging during that time, and that includes public charging. Total of 2.5 cents per mile, easily a third of what I paid in my fuel efficient Corolla and that doesn't include an oil change.

[@LOTPOR0402]

Think you got your figures wrong there £15 for 1800 miles no way

[@simonreeves2017]

Great idea to crunch the numbers! By the way, I can get over 6 miles per kWh driving sensibly in an i3. My commute is 14 miles each way, in my old ICE car I chose a dual carriageway route (A34 Oxford to Didcot), in the i3 I go cross country through 30mph and 40mph zones, ecopro+ mode I get 5.6 to 6.3 miles per kWh. The i3 is lighter than a Corsa 1.2 petrol, thanks to its lack of heavy steel components. I can often do the whole 14 miles without touching the brake pedal, thanks to regen braking. The result is a super efficient commute, in the best car I have ever owned. If you have not test driven an i3, do it, they are sublime vehicles.

[@MILKYBAR1969]

Very hard not to show who is the boss at the traffic lights. 😁

[@Tore_Lund]

That is nice, Didn't imagine such a hunk of a car could do that, the narrow wheels on it must be the reason.

[@therealchayd]

@@Tore_Lund Bear in mind it's mostly carbon fibre and aluminium, so doesn't really weigh much (I think my REx version is about 1.5 metric tonnes).

[@Tore_Lund]

@@therealchayd It was the boxy look I meant, byt only 1.5T! That is not bad.

[@nixer65]

Actually it’s even less than that - it’s around 1200kg for the BEV and 1300kg for the ReX...amazing piece of engineering (and I love my 94Ah BEV)

[@MrGonzonator]

Love the off topic rants, thats your Yorkshire seeping out.

[@DougHolmes]

Don't forget to add the amount you've spent getting coffee/food while waiting for the car to charge - it has to be included. You wouldn't have got either of those with a petrol car

[@jwenting]

correct. Or rather you'd have gotten it at home at a fraction of the cost of the same at gas stations.

[@jwenting]

@@patricklynch7285 the coffee would be cheaper at home :)

[@tomrobson5186]

Also most people over estimate how many miles per gallon they are getting. In my 45yrs of car ownership i have had very few cars that did over 30mpg! Being retired most of my charging is for free as i choose to shop and visit places where they offer this as they want my business. Don't mind paying say 20-30p per kwh which still gives supplier a reasonable profit and i am sure this will happen when there are more evs on the road in a couple of years. Cheers

[@FFVoyager]

I've been driving diesel Rover 75's for more than 10 years. I don't drive short distances in them at all often and I do get @50mpg average. It's short trips, (and cold weather) that really costs.

[@EgoShredder]

@captain pugwash Everyone has a beard these days it seems, even teenage children.

[@EgoShredder]

@captain pugwash It's quite amusing watching all these clones....sorry I mean people, acting like sheep and all doing the same thing at the same time. Not an original thought inside any of them!

[@davidelliott5843]

2002 Audi A4 1.9 TDI diesel did 10 miles per litre - 45mpg. VW Passat with same engine was about the same. 2007 Fiat Panda 1.2 does about the same but its better on long runs. 2007 Fiat Panda 1.4 gives around 38mpg mostly at speed on motorways. But fuel is only part of the costs, The Fiats are cheap in EVERY other respect. The Audi and VW were expensive on parts, tyres and inusrance.

[@Horus69ss]

I live in a flat. I don't have a charger nearby. But I was lucky enough to have a charger near my old workplace - using Polar Plus, it was 8 quid well spent. Now I am after a new job so my charging routine got compromised, but no way I will switch to an internal combustion engine. My Ampera still does better MPG then any car I have previously owned, plus a growing charging network is a win-win situation. Best of luck everyone!

[@waynecartwright7276]

Had my Leaf for 3 years and saved over 50% of its cost , Never paid for a public charge , and i use it to dump my surplus solar into. Using an EV for all the short journeys running your kids around and commuting if its congested saves a fortune as even economical cars dont like cold start short journey or crawling in traffic.

[@2fast4ufast35]

Wait until you to buy a battery for it all the money you saved on gas will go out the window...i had a Prius battery went for the shit took it to the dealer all said and done 4,700$cnd ..so i junk the car it was 6 years old...never again.

[@robertkubrick3738]

What if you lived in apartments? How are you going to charge it? Really long extension cord?

[@RennieAsh]

2fast4u fast how did you use the battery that quickly? They normally last 10 years and should have an 8 year warranty

[@robertkubrick3738]

@@RennieAsh He said $CDN. Batteries don't do well in the cold or very hot for that matter. Miles off life and range just for climate control on that battery.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@robertkubrick3738 How do you fill up with petrol if you live in an apartment? Does the pump have an extra long pipe?

[@saddle1940]

Where I live, the price difference between buying an ICE car versus an EV is about 17000 pounds which is way more than the savings you've posted. Probably leaning back towards parity once you take servicing into account. EVs are cheap to run but just way too expensive to get.

[@AgentSmith911]

You live in the US? I live in Norway, where taxes are made out to be EV friendly. Most people drive diesel cars, but diesel costs a lot (the last time I filled) 13.39 NOK per liter which $1.49 per liter or $5.7 per gal. rounded up. Electric cars are also about the same price as petrol cars as petrol cars have a lot of taxes while electric cars are completely tax exempt. Also, electricity prices are low.

[@saddle1940]

@@AgentSmith911 Australia, where the cheapest Ev is $50000 and good ICE cars are $30000. No gov incentives to change over, almost the opposite as almost all EVs fall into luxury car tax brackets.

[@therealctoo4183]

You're forgetting resale value. A 7 year old Tesla sells for pretty close to what it cost when it was new. You're also severely under valuing maintenance. My 6 year old Honda CR-V is costing around $2,000 per year in maintenance. Between that and the $150/month in fuel that I expect to save when I get my Model Y, I expect to break even in just a few years, five, maybe six at most. After that, it's all savings.

[@onedankind8168]

The upfront cost is a big one. But if you think about it like an investment. Getting 10% return on investment is considered quite good. So if JUST your fuel savings end up being 10% investment that's actually quite good. That doesn't even include the savings from the significant savings from maintenance too. Don't forget all credits and discounts for getting an EV too. So you can likely get that 17k down a fair bit.

[@therealctoo4183]

@Rossrful More than 90% of the time, charging is done at home while you sleep. The rest of the time doesn't add up to what you spend at a gas pump. The key is to buy a car with good range and a decent charging network, which your friend obviously didn't do.

[@yborloch]

Even more relevant now than when it was filmed in 2019 - I love your videos as they help me convince friends &family who are still not sure about EVs.

[@garymenezes6888]

That's a nice breakdown of costs. I also live in the UK, I ride an electric bicycle(80%-90% of the time), and always charge at home, the bicycle battery is rated at 36V/14Ah, so that is 504Wh(~0.5kWh).I use the bicycle to get to and from work, which is a 26.6 mile round trip. A full charge on the bicycle lasts me 3-4 days, so I get ~80- 100 miles on 0.5kWh . Does that mean I get ~160 - 200 miles per kWh. If so, for 100k miles I need 625 - 500 kWh of electricity. Now at the average of 15.75p per kWh that costs me ~£100 - £80.

[@svenwesterlund3405]

On my fifth year with the combination of ev's and roof top solar. Electricity cost per mile is zero, and that is rather nice.

[@mlee6050]

did you plan solar? I am wondering what solar I need to charge the car like once a day or just what need to charge a power wall

[@svenwesterlund3405]

@@mlee6050 I needed a new car, was afraid of buying an EV in 2015 so we kept one of our ICE cars and took a lease on the first Leaf. Or saved.money went into the solar. We annually use about 2000kWh for the cars but produce almost 6000kWh. Selling the excess more than covers the cost of buying back from the grid at night or winter.

[@davidcheung5133]

But photovoltaic panels cost £8000 in the UK so not free

[@svenwesterlund3405]

@@davidcheung5133 But they also raise the value of your house. Since you can, as I do, produce several times what the car uses you could argue that the fuel cost is zero.

[@aitordg503]

@@davidcheung5133 Hi! You can ask the web site of Green Fy Good prize and product👍👍

[@smallmj2886]

Don't get a swimming pool. My neighbour has one and he spends more time maintaining it than swimming in it.

[@totherik91]

My father works at a landscaping/gardening company, he always says that if you want a maintenance free swimming pool, get a swimming pond with proper, self cleaning ecosystem (plants, algae, fishes, etc). You basically only need to fish out trash that the wind blow in and sometimes check on the ecosystem. More expensive upfront, cheaper on the long run, no added chemicals, far less work needed for maintenance.

[@davidelliott5843]

@@totherik91 Swimming ponds are a great idea. Someone should tell Ed Sheerean. The mediocre singer who is constantly in the press for his blue tiled swimming pool that, allegedly, has no planning permission. If it was a mere pond nothing would be said.

[@hjeffwallace]

Mark Small now that he has an EV, he has time to maintain a pool.

[@raven4k998]

Mark Small secretly wants a swimming pool that is self maintaining so he can spend more time swimming less time maintaining

[@davidfyork]

Excellent video, well explained. You’re so right to mention depreciation... I bought a Zoe in 2015 and sold it earlier this year. Four years of driving and 36,000 miles cost me only £1,700 in depreciation (just £425 per year!)

[@davidfyork]

What’s more, I can only see EVs continuing to be great for depreciation. They still make such a small proportion of the cars on the road, so as EVs become more mainstream in the 2020’s, the second hand ones are always going to be in demand. Meanwhile, I reckon twin-exhaust gas guzzlers and diesels are going to plummet in value as people are already avoiding them.

[@xorsyst1]

The fact that EVs retain their value is actually a negative point for me. If I'm looking a 3-yo cars, the up-front difference is much MORE than new. Often times 2x-3x the price for an EV. That's a big ask for a car that will cause me inconvenience every couple of months when I drive up to Scotland to visit the folks. The break-even price is then something like 10 years. It will get there, but right now unless you are looking at buying a new car anyway, I can't see the financial argument for EVs.

[@rbdogwood]

Everybody's case is different but I just drove from South Lanarkshire to Winchester and back 800miles round trip. I think it should have cost £34 but some recharges were free. The car was horribly expensive at £30,000 but the interest free loan makes that bearable. I needed something bigger (eNV200), but for most users I'd consider a fast charging 200mile smaller car.

[@JBoy340a]

Well presented and factual. And at the same time entertaining. You made a solid financial case for an EV. You have also given me some info to use against those in the states that claim EVs are only for the rich,. Well done!

[@pook2830]

Enjoy it while you can, because as soon as EVs overtake petroleum powered vehicles, they'll be taxed in such a way that the losses in tax from petrol and diesel will be made up for in tax on electricity in some way. There's no way the government will just accept such a loss in revenue. I know you think they won't, but they will. They will find a way.. trust me. BTW.. I'm not anti-EV in the slightest. I can't afford one right now, and I also regularly need range.

[@therealctoo4183]

Your argument assumes that the government taxes gasoline right now, but they don't. Sure there are gas taxes, but they're wiped away by the massive subsides given to Big Oil. When EVs dominate the market there's no reason to think they won't be given the same preferential treatment.

[@audimanuk]

Damn right, they rake in about £45 billion a year from cash cow motorist, for every £1.00 spent on fuel the govt takes 65P, no way will they give that up, eventually you will have to have a charging box fitted to your house with its own meter in it independent of the residential electricity supply and charged at a special tarif, it will no doubt take payment by touch and go credit card, plus if you’re caught trying to charge your vehicle by bypassing the box and using residential electricity you could get a big fine and or jail.

[@gcode9084]

How will they Tax the electricity that you charge your car with without putting everyone else's bill up? I'm pretty sure the electricity I use for my kettle come from the same place as that I put in the car? They would have to get the money back by taxing the car not the fuel?

[@pook2830]

@@therealctoo4183 "our argument assumes that the government taxes gasoline right now, but they don't." Where do you live? I'm in the UK, and tax on fuel here is HUGE

[@pook2830]

@@gcode9084 They'll find a way. Perhaps new cars talking to your smart meter and adjusting the tariff accordingly? Trust me.... they'll not just roll over and lose all that lovely cash they rake in from petrol.

[@davidbeaulieu4815]

I charge my bolt at the Chevy dealership i havnt paid a dime lol.

[@davidpearn5925]

In the depths of a British winter, how much is a preheated car worth to you...........just as an added bonus !

[@tinaturner5186]

david pearn You couldn’t get a Boy Scout to de-ice the windscreen and warm the car, seats and de-mist the windows for the cost of the electricity coming out of the wall on a cold winter’s morning. A nice BMW i3 feature - I’m sure it must be a feature on other EVs also

[@RWBHere]

@@tinaturner5186 Leaf, Zöe, Tesla, etc.

[@sahhull]

Nothing... grow a spine and wrap up for the conditions.

[@jaroessa294]

Here in the U.S. the argument to go EV is far less compelling, especially with our cheaper gas prices. Plenty of studies have been done with the math and it shows that you are only saving about $600-700/year to adopt a car with very high price tag, limited range and very long recharge times. Then, when you throw in the hefty price increase for car insurance of anywhere from 50 - 100% more, because most insurance companies view EV's as "premium" cars with high repair costs, the savings is pretty much wiped out. And let's not forget battery degradation over a 10 year time span, resulting in a huge expense to replace the battery skate at an average cost of $10,000. One of the bigger arguments that people are starting to become more educated on is the 'break' even time when paying so much more for an EV upfront when compared to an ICEV and factoring in the "savings". Alot of times it will take 12-15 years to break even. That's a long time to hold onto a car just so you can break even on the high initial cost to own it.

[@RUHappyATM]

Mate, an enlightened argument. But don't tell that to the EV evangelists.

[@bowez9]

Another issue/cost is the time factor. One is not always able to charge and not be waiting on it. The the time of let's just say 1 hr for 80% vs 100% for a ICE in about 5min. Once again this is more of an issue in the US due to the size of the country, but is a factor on a trip of any real distance. Opportunity cost is a factor that must be considered.

[@jaroessa294]

@@bowez9 You are absolutely correct. Time is Money!! When you tell people that their 5 min. "refuel" time on a regular car will all of a sudden increase more than 1000% on an EV, to over an hour for a 'full tank' recharge, all because it uses a different energy source, people balk at that overwhelmingly. And thus the reason why EV's only made up 2% of all auto sales in the U.S. in 2018.

[@gcode9084]

I managed to get on the OVO V2G trial - after a few hickups - (they are still refining it) - I am very happy. I plug my car into a Chademo fast charger at home then they take over. When they require more electricity due to grid load they take some from my car battery ( I get paid a premium - cuz they can sell it at a higher price) Then they use my charging preferences to ensure I am fully charged at 5.15am. Works a treat and makes my travel to work free! - they pay me for the kWh used at over what I pay for them. Its the future! A few thousand electric cars connected to the grid gets rid of a power station!!

[@tinaturner5186]

G Code This technology and it’s take up make the National Grid very interested and supportive of EV mass adoption. The electricity suppliers however are more cautious because at the home level, you could power your house from your car when electricity is expensive and charge up while you sleep when electricity is cheap. Lower bills for you, less revenue for them. National Grid like the idea of your car becoming your home battery because it makes the whole grid easier to balance and therefore cheaper to operate. The spike from turning your oven or kettle on would come from your battery, not the grid. To offset that, most electricity suppliers really want EV owners for their business. After all, EVs guzzle MW compared to normal domestic consumption.

[@TsLeng]

Do you get to choose how deep the grid can cycle your battery? And generally how much do they discharge in a go? Wondering because end of the day, batteries are limited on charge cycles.

[@tinaturner5186]

TsLeng Early stages, but put simply, the battery owner will have control about how much can be used. For example, you might need 60% of you car battery to get to work and back, so you would set a “waterline” level. In my experience, over 3 years I have charged my car about 750 times - slightly less, and not always a full charge and not always from rock bottom. That’s 250 charges a year. I’m informed that both the BMW and TESLA battery technology is good for at least 10,000 full charge cycles. In the latter case, my PowerWall 2 has such a statement. That comes to about 40 years. Even if that turns out to be only half of that figure, say 20 years, that is still a good life. Of course, how quickly you charge affects battery chemistry and therefore battery life. I avoid fast chargers, except on longer journeys, as I charge at home. So in summary, a good question but nothing really to fear. Find an ICE vehicle that has no major cost issues over a 20 to 40 year life. Some don’t even last that long.

[@TsLeng]

@@tinaturner5186 thanks for that. Current EV batteries can go up to 10k cycles or more. It's just that there is a capacity / cycling curve. So after say 1000 cycles, the capacity would have been reduced. They don't like deep discharge and full charge. That is why I am wondering.

[@tinaturner5186]

TsLeng So far, no range degradation in my i3 battery. I think managed batteries get a longer life (obvious?) as the charge rate and battery temperature is managed to avoid chemical damage. Cars like the Nissan Leaf (not the van/combi ENV 200 which is managed), may suffer degradation with frequent fast charging - EVM, your view/experience?

[@patriciacalderwood3650]

We are about to change our Peugot 308 SW for the new e-208. As 76 year old pensioners we are down sizing and want a more cleaner and economical mode of transport. Thank you for your excellent videos on the e-208 and this one on energy costs. You have helped us make a difficult choice. Thank you

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

I would like to remind my fellow viewers from the USA that these are Imperial MPG's, that's why cars in the UK get such great gas mileage. In the USA we us US Gallons which equal about 3.785 liters per US Gallon, but there are 4.546 litres in an Imperial Gallon.

[@raydavison2972]

Probably the most well known example of the US bastardising every measurement system they can get their hands on!

[@kens97sto171]

@@raydavison2972 We stopped caring about what the UK thought in 1776. We perfected the assembly line. We made cars common and affordable, we can decide whatever the hell we want in our own country.. as can you in yours...

[@raydavison2972]

@@kens97sto171 That attitude sums it nicely I think!

[@kens97sto171]

@@raydavison2972 Yep sure does.. your the one who attacked first with a mean statement. Why would you not expect a response? Have a wonderful day..

[@raydavison2972]

@@kens97sto171 My initial comment was an observation, not an attack. The very reason you needed to explain the difference between the US gallon to the standard highlighted the US approach to most measurement standards. PS: I've had a great day, hope you have too.

[@gapreston]

Here in North Carolina (USA) the state tacks on $130.00 per year on EVs for road tax since it's deprived of equivalent gas tax. Many states are doing the same at different rates. North Carolina is currently introducing a bill to impose a similar tax on hybrid vehicles!

[@spencerwilton5831]

Greg Preston Typical America, two decades behind and regressing further by the day.

[@gapreston]

@@spencerwilton5831 Too true.

[@stsquib]

Great video as always. Im really glad to see you comment on what happens once the revenue generated from fuel tax starts to drop noticeably. This is a subject that is very rarely discussed. But one that needs to be. I also agree that the only logical solution is some kind of pay per mile system. However I do disagree on the time frame. I highly doubt it will take decades. In fact, Id be surprised if we didn't have something in place in the next 8-10 years. The ability to tax based on the type of roads and time of day would be EXTREMELY appealing to most politicians.

[@polleyjw]

Sammy Squib I expect mileage (and vehicle weight) based road use taxes very soon, too. As fuel economy increases, fuel taxes decreases and EVs are just making it more obvious. I hope that fuel taxes are maintained to offset the impact of ICE on the environment.

[@gavjlewis]

Well the easy win for the government is to say electricity is a processed consumable item so they are changing the VAT from 5% to 20%. This will only hit the average household (using 10kWh) to about 20p extra. It will disproportionately hit EV drivers raising more tax. The government will also claim it's to push for greener energy. Road pricing is very expensive to implement and can only really be done on major A roads and Motorway's. So if you mainly drive in your local town you won't be paying anyway.

[@stsquib]

@@gavjlewis Im not sure I agree. Setting the tax on domestic electricity to 20% would bump up the average bill by about £140 per year (based on my personal figures for last year). That's a big deal for people on very low incomes. Any politician that tried to implement that would be slaughtered in the press for 'putting low income families on the streets'. Not to mention pictures of pensioners huddled around their (now switched off) two-bar heaters. Also I don't see why road pricing would be too expensive to implement. You seem to be suggesting that some sort of alteration to the road infrastructure would be required. It isn't. All Im thinking is a simple GPS tracker in all cars by law and billing accordingly. Yes the initial cost would be huge. These kinds of changes always are. Especially when you factor in the inefficiencies of the government trying to get something done. But something needs to change and this seems the most practical. This could then easily replace both the tax on fuel and what we commonly call road tax. Personally I think what would kill that idea would be the privacy implications, not cost.

[@gavjlewis]

@@stsquib It's pretty easy to compensate for low income families. It's called tax credits. So I don't really see it as an problem. It would add £73 to the average yearly bill. Low income families are likely to have smaller houses and less electronic equipment so could easily be given £5 per month electricity credit. Cameras are the only real world way to track mileage and only viable on major roads. A GPS mileage tracker is far too easy to bypass. So instead of being charged for 23k you only connect it so 3k is charged. Even if you change the law now and had a secure way it would take 20+ years to clear the roads of cars without the system. It also discourages people from buying new cars, which isn't good for the economy or the environment. Also why shouldn't the VAT rate for a product like electricity be at 20%?

[@gavjlewis]

@captain pugwash See my above post. What is to stop me buying a second hand EV and using a third-party ECU? Or a device that can clear all the EPROM data from the ECU? How about blocking the GPS (if GPS used) or disconnecting the wheel speed sensor? If it's out the government's hands it too easy to circumnavigate.

[@SirHackaL0t.]

My BMW 320 D ED gets 68mpg on average and I do 750 miles a week. It costs me £70 a week to fill up. I’m looking forward to getting my first EV next week and save fuel costs. Great job.

[@Toast_Vr76]

Great video. You see a lot of comments about the higher initial cost of buying an EV, which can be true (although maybe not so much when you consider equivalent performance and standard equipment). When it comes to running costs, depreciation should also be factored in. At the moment second hand EVs are holding their value much better than many ICE cars. I bought an late 2015 24kwh nissan leaf almost 2 years ago for €11,500 as a commuting car (90km round trip to work). I've driven almost 40,000km and even as a trade in it's still worth about the same as I paid for it. Now, I realize I was lucky and got a really good deal 2 years ago but it does show that the second hand market for EVs is very strong even for the shorter range models.

[@rhiantaylor3446]

Most cars last about 20 years in the UK. Most people who buy new cars "refresh" them when they get to 3 years and only a minority buy their cars new. For these people EVs are getting closer to the price of ICE cars. The key issue is EV depreciation and used EV car market. While you benefit from your low depreciation, the same issue stops 80% of car buyers from going EV - because 3+ year old cars are way more expensive than ICE and will remain so for years to come.

[@johndouglas770]

Totally brilliant in every respect, maybe one of your all time best. Loved the mini rant and agree with everything you say.

[@rogerhudson9732]

My V8 petrol RangeRover used to do 15mpg , if I drove carefully, that's about 38K on your calculations. 38,000 versus 2500 for a Zoe - OMG !!

[@user-uw3fi2zg4t]

that car is not for the road anyway

[@howardrichburg2398]

I was going to say, here in the USA, vehicles getting 40 mpg or better are rare where I live. My pickup gets 19 in town and 23 highway. Curerently fuel is about 3.5 per gal US. $18,421 for 100k miles. That about half of what I'm paying for the trick, minus interest. As soon as a fair price ev pickup is available here I'm getting one. You'd have to be plain stupid not to see the cost savings over time. As for charging at home or public,,, how many people with a ice car fuel up at home or in the driveway? Only farmers as far as know and they are getting fewer and fewer. Keep up the good work!

[@tinaturner5186]

Roger Hudson I have a Bentley Eight (1989) that does 20mpg. Upgrade sir! Seriously, my BMW i3 REX is so much fun to drive and I’ve moved furniture/fridge/washing machine in it - one at a time I might add. Get your Range Rover converted to electric (see FullyCharged episode on one such place in the Cotswolds/Powys area that converts ICE to EVs). Good luck

[@danlee4427]

Great video, ohnest and on point as always, I'm your 21 mpg wanker driving an auto jag, I really need to Change, just waiting for the right pcp deal! Also, have you seen the new solar technology to turn everyones window into a solar panel? Bit like a wrap for the car? Same stuff!

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

So you'll be around 25-30k worth of petrol over 100/000 miles, Enough to buy a new EV !

[@iancox6341]

WHY, not rent/lease an EV, do some research, you Will find a deal that suits you. It will come in at the same price you would pay for you petrol. I now rent Ioniq for the same price as I used to pay out for petrol each month I have sent £100 to do 19,000 miles and no home charger (many many kind thanks to all those FREE public chargers).

[@tinaturner5186]

Dave Fitzpatrick And enough left over for a good lunch

[@linusa2996]

The logical comparison is as follows, vehicle purchase cost + (fuel/electricity cost + repair cost over 100k miles) The reason being if the ICE car cost less than the BEV car to purchase the ICE car can cost less over the the 100k mile distance (100k is roughly 7.4 years of ownership). In countries like the USA, most people only keep their new cars an average of 6-8 years. And it takes about 7+ for a BEV to break even. This means most people never see the cost savings.

[@williamfence566]

Good comparisons . I'm running a hybrid at the moment as no home charging . Can't see me going to full EV unless the initial purchase price is much lower or public charging is cheaper with more demand.

[@AlexBell1991]

Same! At most it would be plug in Hybrid for me and I'd only be able to charge at work which is free... for now

[@themadjock1977]

I am just home from a 980 mi holiday in Skye and using L1 and L3 Charge Place Scotland those miles cost the grand total of £1. In the old 25mpg fossil it would have cost about £180!

[@rumples2698]

but the charging is being subsidised by the taxpayer

[@MegaNayton]

Tax he's paid already and will continue to pay for as long as he lives so nothings free in the end

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@rumples2698 The big oil companies are also subsidised by the taxpayer, to the tune of £300 billion per year......

[@leomonkeyhanger6382]

Andy, Because I'm on the vehicle to Grid Trial and my battery is constantly at the optimum temperature I get 4.5 miles per kilowatt. On top of that I buy electricity at 14.45p and sell it back to the grid at 30p (plus my 5% VAT back). I also pay £20 a year for unlimited charging at public chargers.......So for my 100K miles:- I use 22,222 kW and pay £3,211 plus £20 a year...or £200 over 10 years...total £3,411. But I sell back 18.5 kW per day to the grid for 15.55p per kW. and receive £10,500...plus rebate of 5% VAT of £525.... So I spend £3,411 on electricity for 100,000 miles........but get back £11,025. Meaning the car hasn't cost me a penny to run...but has made me £7,614. But here's the best bit..... My average cost of domestic electric and gas is £ 80 and OVO are paying me £90 average a month, I run the car and get the gas and electric for free....and £10 in my arse pocket every month...

[@kiwi1fruit]

As a long time resident of England in the 60's I love to listen to the different accents. I am in the USA, Oregon to be more precise. I agree with the well set out figures and being a long time EV user I would add........the maintenance on an EV vehicle is almost nothing. I should mention that I now drive a Toyota Prius Prime which does have a petrol engine and an 8.5kw battery. If you drive locally under 30 miles you rarely need to add petrol. There is no differential/gear oil changes. I expect that after warranty I will have the petrol engine oil changed about every two years according to how many hours go on the petrol engine. It uses synthetic oil which is long lasting. So there is a substantial saving in maintenance.

[@dougowt]

Oh I forgot to point out the price for the electric Mini Cooper S is cheaper than the petrol version.

[@linusa2996]

how far does the electric mini go on a single charge?. How far does the petrol version go on a single tank of gas? Still, I'm curious to know how well these mass market EV's do when their are 10-20 years old. I'm in So Cal where the air is dry, there is no salt on the road and cars can last 20-50 years. Here a 20 year old car is like a 5 year old car in London. And I just had to replace the main power cable on a 15 year old SAAB because there was so much oxidization inside the enclosed cable that the car could not start or charge it's battery. Now I wonder what's going on in those miles of high voltage wiring that runs under your EV's.

[@linusa2996]

@NotTheCIA I.think You've never worked on cars have you? Oxidization of the power cables don't care about "sealed junctions". As to the 500,000 mile Tesla, are those Teslas 20-30 years old? That would be an amazing feat for a 7 year old car. Small math 500,000 miles is 260-262 miles a day 5 days a week 54 weeks a year. The only model that would qualify for that would be the early model S. Motortrend's 2014 Model S had to have new suspension bushings, a new steering knuckle and a new motor and transmission in the first 2 years of ownership. So I'd take that 500,000 mile Tesla with a block of salt as according to some of the mechanics who worked at the Tesla repair facilities, almost all of those have had at least 1-3 motor replacements.

[@linusa2996]

@NotTheCIA I.think Cause I'm looking at 12ft of insulated 4 gauge copper wire where all but 6 inches is oxidized. And I pulled that off a 5 year old car here in sunny and dry california.

[@linusa2996]

@NotTheCIA I.think Neither do teslas from what I've seen. Nothing I don't see in any ICE car connector. Now think, where is the motor of that Tesla? And guess what, it's not sealed either, just a plastic cover. We know it's not sealed because water does get into it. While the battery case is sealed kinda, connectors are outside and are exposed to moisture. The cable insulation themselves are vegetable based and make for tasty rodent snack.

[@CarolSteele]

Great video as always. You also have to factor in VED which for a petrol/diesel car will work out at around £150 pa on average and annual service costs (say around £250 pa on average), If we forget about cost of repairs (clutch, brake pads etc) then this is £400 pa. If you average 10,000 miles per annum that is 10 years to do the 100,000 miles so a total of £4000 vs (for me with a 5 year service + MOT's plan of £550 - so that would be £1100 for 10 years), that is an additional saving of around £2900. My saving is even greater than that as I am getting around 5 miles/kWh from my e-Niro (although that will drop slightly in winter).

[@robertlangham2356]

I didn't think this was a total cost of ownership calculation, if you're going to go down that path you'll need to include insurance and the biggest factor of all which is depreciation, what will your EV be worth when the batteries expire? Sadly scrap only I suspect.

[@nixer65]

Robert Langham I suspect that third party replacement battery packs will become available as the market evolves...further there are already specialists beginning to appear for doing repair work to battery packs to deal with cell failures. This is the same as the ICE market...

[@robertlangham2356]

@@nixer65 That does sound a possibility though it does assume the manufacturer hasn't made it impossible to change.

[@CarolSteele]

@@robertlangham2356 - I thought the whole point was how cheap EV's were to run compared to ICE vehicles and designed to support people thinking of switching to BEV's. In which case these additional savings need to be factored in. I think you are wrong about insurance though as many people are finding the cost of insurance is the same as for ICE vehicles - and less expensive in some cases. Depreciation on many BEV's is negligible at the moment (and in some cases they appreciate in value), but that is down to rarity of certain models - but will change when more cars become mass produced and availability is a couple of weeks rather than many months. Once BEV's becomes unroadworthy (in many years time) due to failing body parts, the battery will still have second use value either as home energy storage or for recycling of its components - unlike ICE vehicles which do become just scrap.

[@robertlangham2356]

@@CarolSteele i don't think I said EVs were more expensive to insure did I?, just that it ought to be included if you are looking at total cost. As far as EVs increasing in value, good luck with that. These are mass produced cars with limited life. Whatever you want to believe, batteries do not last forever so good luck with that :-)

[@gregcollins3404]

I'm just finishing one year on a Chevy BoltEV. 18,000 miles, 5400kwh, virtually all charging is at home off my solar system that is all paid off. If I charge during the afternoon peak hours when I have excess power, the charging is virtually free as the excess generation would be lost to the utility. I've used less than $20 of fast charging and less than 100kWh of free public charging. I figure less than $200 actual cash outlay to run this car for the last year.

[@davidelliott5843]

Properly fast charging (supercharging) will shorten the battery life but I doubt a domestic solar panel setup can give enough oomph to really work the battery.

[@chooselife3000]

I currently have a Audi A6 Avant 2.0 TDI have owned the car since 2012, car has 124,000 miles (not worth a lot). Been a great car. Thinking of changing my car. Where I stay at my parents house I cannot practicably plug into mains electric at home, I park on the street. This certainly isn't a "rant" about driveway privileges, it's just facts of the matter and facts of life. Great channel.

[@therealchayd]

Got an EV two weeks ago, didn't realise how ridiculously cheap they are to run. Regarding the charging at home problems for those without drives - a lot of companies are starting to install free charging points for employees so you would always juice up at work I guess.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Good isn't it? 👍

[@marcbrookes8065]

I have 5.4kWp Solar with a Powerwall 2. Once I take out domestic use over a year it leaves apx 1.8 MW left over for a car. In a Tesla Model 3 LR, this equates to 7800 miles per year from solar alone. So once your solar has broken even, your 'fuel' is bugger all.

[@chooselife3000]

Maybe I will start keeping an accounting record of the fuel (diesel) costs of my motoring car and other costs as well not only fuel. Would become very interesting to add this up over time, weekly, monthly, yearly. This video channel inspires me and will def come to watch more.

[@morphshag]

It seems so strange arguing about having driveways. In Australia every bugger has a driveway, some are massive. We rent a pretty average house and we can fit like 6 cars in the driveway. What a crazy difference.

[@AndyRRR0791]

Wow! The fuel saving nearly covers the capital cost delta of buying your EV!

[@MrTaxidriver50005]

Fascinating stuff for the first 100,000 miles, but like lots of us high mileage drivers I'm looking for 3-400,000 miles out of a vehicle. Factor in 2 possibly 3 battery replacement in that time, don't go thinking they last forever they certanly do not and battery replacement cost is nearly as expensive as a new car (just Google horror stories from dealerships).i for one can't wait for battery technology to improve to make owning an ev a realistic option . Most ev batteries will still only cycle 400 to 600 times at best so multiply that by your range and you have an idea how long these will last, tesla model s 100d range 320 miles equal 192,000 miles battery replacement cost over £50,000 and prices are going up not down as supply and demand takes over from scale of production. There are many cheaper 7 year old Nissan leafs with 70-80,000 miles on them running around with 30 miles range because battery replace is so expensive. Things will get better as Technology improves and if figures for graphene batteries are to be believed how many times a battery will cycle will jump up significantly from around 4-600 times to around 20,000 times with double the density and unbelievable fast charge time( providing you can access a fast charger) at this point I think evs will become mainstream and useable.

[@patreekotime4578]

Except that Tesla has been replacing batteries for free, even when people abuse them. As do many manufacturers. And Tesla just announced new chemistry and expects a million miles of life out of those batteries. They are already claiming a million miles out of the motors and gear boxes. Please point out the petrol car manufacturer with a million mile guarantee on engine and transmission.

[@eddywilliams6212]

I often go to scrapyards to get parts for cars, never have i seen a petrol or diesel car in the scrapyard with over 240k miles on the clock, most petrol i see are about 100-150k and diesels around 190-240k so i who are these people getting 400k plus out of their cars? I once met a guy who genuinely had 400k on his nisaan sunny, he bought it new and looked after it, changed the oil every 6k miles, thats a lot of oil changes!

[@MrTaxidriver50005]

@@eddywilliams6212 taxi drivers, uber drivers courier and delivery people believe me there are lots of professions that use cars for big mileage, Tessla say all the right things but can't seem to follow through on there promise

[@MrTaxidriver50005]

@@patreekotime4578 please point out which Tessla has a million miles guarantee

[@davidellis279]

The costs are unfair because of the tax levied on petrol or diesel fuels, if you could buy fuel at the proper price less the tax and VAT the comparison would be a lot closer than people think, as soon as they've conned everybody to buy EVs they will find a way of taxing them probably on a mileage basis because if you think for one moment that they are going to loose all that lovely money they con out of us you've lost the plot, this is easy pickings for the Government and they ain't going to give that up easy, the same goes for road tax they will reintroduce that when it suits them after people have spent tens of thousands of pounds in the belief that they will save money.

[@davidelliott5843]

There is no free lunch. Early adopters avoid paying fuel tax but they pay more for their electric cars and with batteries improving hand-over-fist, they depreciate badly. When electrics go mainstream there will have to be a black box based road tax system. But who knows how they will avoid them being chipped or in some way knobbled. Maybe it will be via a network of ANPR cameras that ping your plate and send you a bill every month.

[@davidellis279]

David Elliott. 👍👍👍 Spot on, as usual the government are playing a game that people keep falling for like they did over the issue of encouraging the population to buy diesel cars and now after the manufactures have spent billions to clean them up are now saying there going to be banned. The problem is like the fools we are we trust the people we elect to be truthful with us as we did over Brexit and look at the way that's going, enough said. Like you say they will use some electronic device to monitor when and where you drive in another scam to reduce pollution and pressure on the National Grid who as it stands now Will Not be able to cope with demand for Electricy in winter conditions. People who have bought EVs now might be having a bit of a good time at the moment but this is will not last long term and as you say fast charging batteries don't last long so let's see how costs compare then when it costs thousands to replace them.

[@chooselife3000]

I just spent 17 days visiting friends and family in Yorkshire. Saw a charge point(s) at my local Aldi. I have a 2007 Audi 2.0 TDI. I put £160 approx. of diesel in the last 2 weeks. Excellent video channel.

[@wideboy38]

Just bought a model 3 . can charge at work (I do 150 mile round commute) have economy 7 so can charge overnight and have free 5000 super charger miles. So far total cost for 1000 miles has been £28. My old BMW 5 series did 50 mpg but I was costing £70 a week so real world savings i reckon will be a tenth of what I paid for diesel. Yes the car was expensive but over the life of the car I expect it to be no dearer than my second hand BMW.

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

at those prices then you could fit solar panels and a zappi charger and still not be out of pocket (then getting 100% clean energy)

[@davidelliott5843]

He is talking about 100,000 miles which many people would take 10 years to drive that far. So the energy cost is spread over 5 to 10 years. Solar panels need energy to make them and they degrade over time so will have to be scrapped at some point. Recycling the materials is difficult and some materials are extremely limited e.g. rare earth elements.

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

@@davidelliott5843 modern solar panels are expected to last 20-25 years and even upto 50 years, more than paying for themselves ( I have 14 guaranteed for 25 years, and should still be about 80% efficient)

[@tinaturner5186]

Dave Fitzpatrick Me too. Add a TESLA without wheels aka PW2 (sounds like PP9?) - PowerWall 2 - keep all that you harvest. On good days, when the battery is nearly full and the panels are still producing, I plug the car in on the granny cable rather than export to the grid. This might take some from the battery, but what the heck, it all fell off the roof didn’t it? I know there are inefficiencies in DC to AC to DC to AC back to DC ( the car ), but it is still a cheap way to run a house and a car. Any roof, thatch excepted, without a solar panel is a waste.

[@chrisdaniels3929]

Solar in winter is a lot lower than June in the UK

[@tinaturner5186]

Chris Daniels Web get some very dark days through the winter, but equally, wet get some cold crisp bright days too. And all we need is light after all. So, yes, less in the winter but still enough to reduce grid consumption by quite a bit through to late spring through to autumn surplus.

[@conradfuller6697]

Great calculations, very helpful, thank you.

[@ruedigerpreiss9307]

Great video - one of your best :)!

[@EgoShredder]

Someone in England wants an outdoor swimming pool? Are they insane! YES!

[@tracyofbg]

Your rant was the best part

[@PaulMansfield]

I want to rant too, dammit, why can't everybody have a rant, it's not fair!!! :)

[@mattgawn6630]

More ranting would be appreciated!

[@TheOilBurner]

Genius biscuit to fruit comparison! Love it 😂

[@hovishill2779]

Enjoy while you can, Electric cost are going up and will continue to go up rapidly in the near future partly due to when Hinckley NPS is built, thanks to the ridiculously expensive contract agreed. Smart meters are being pushed for a reason, to monitor use and the plan is to bring in different rates dependant on what your using electricity for, 5G will allow all electrical devices to communicate with each other (most new cars are already able to do this) so your car will communicate with your smart meter and you will be charged according to what your using electricity for. There’s no way the government is going to stand a loss with RFL and fuel tax and vat on electric vehicles.

[@stuartevans6807]

Im a driving instructor. 2 weeks into owning a zoe40. I get 5.1 miles per kw, cant charge at home but my local town has 7 charge points each with 2 sockets. 13p per kw(free parking) or free 22kw with parking 1.50 for an hour(7.5p per kw) if things stay the same 100k miles would cost 2k. Round town driving i get 40mpg from my ice car. So 14.5k from your figures. I cover the 100k in about 4.5 years so for me makes it worth the public charging.

[@waynebow-gu7wr]

So what do you do when it's charging ? What's YOUR time worth per hour ?

[@stuartevans6807]

@@waynebow-gu7wr cant work 24/7. I have a set number of hours per week I work and arrange free time for dinner and gym sessions so for me its free time. I dont need to work less hours just to charge up

[@waynebow-gu7wr]

@@stuartevans6807 Good to see it's working for you.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@waynebow-gu7wr He could have his lunch, buy shopping, get a haircut etc....... You don't *have* to stand and watch it

[@RITB300]

Be careful where you live, people keep disappearing in the background :)

[@timarulad]

Ok, I'll do the figures for here in New Zealand. I just bought a Kia Niro Hybrid for $37,000 and it's averaging 4.7L/100km. The e-Niro is $74,000 or exactly double the price, and we have no incentives/tax breaks. Cheapest electricity I can get is 12 cents/kWh from 12-7am. Petrol is currently $2.25/L. For 160,000km (100,000 miles), I'd use 7,520L or $16,920 in petrol. Assuming 6km/kWh, that would be 26,667kWh or $3,200 on night charging only. So a saving of $13,720 on a car that costs $37,000 more. Just to make things worse, EVs currently don't pay any road tax (It's already added to petrol), and next year it's planned to be introduced, and if it's anything like what diesel car users pay, it will be over $50 per 1,000km. This will reduce the savings by over $8,000 meaning over the 160,000km driven, the savings over petrol would be under $6,000 on best case scenario and maybe no savings at all if using some public charging. So I''m still happy that I bought a hybrid and not an EV.

[@timarulad]

@captain pugwash Yeah, there's not many EVs that you would save money on that's why I bought a hybrid after first looking to get an EV. BTW, my Niro switches between running on the engine to EV and back to engine so quietly that most of the time I don't know which it is without looking at the dash, very smooth.

[@cigmorfil4101]

Another problem is that overnight cheap electricity is mostly there because hot stations (those burning fossil fuels) cannot be shut down just overnight and this encourages overnight usage of the electricity that has to be generated. As hot stations are closed and replaced by renewables (wind farms, etc) overnight electricity is likely to no longer be much cheaper than day time. Electric mountain at Llanberis makes a profit as it pays for overnight cheap electricity (from hot stations) to pump the water back to the top lake, but then feeds the grid with higher priced day time electricity when it uses the potential energy of that water flowing through its turbines to the lower lake.

[@dougowt]

Can I just add another option - I have paid £0 since the 16 May 19 to charge my EV. I cannot charge at home or at work. I have to use public chargers and I have a routine now that fits in with my commuting (56 miles return) and all I do is make regular small shops and plug my Zoe in while buying food. Both Sainsburys in Exeter (6x 22kWh AC) and Lidl (43kWh AC/50kWh DC) in Paignton offer free charging via PodPoint. Even when I was paying for public charging it was costing a max of £28 per month driving an average of just over 1100 miles per month. the Zoe is averaging 4.6 miles per kWh. And I would have to describe my driving style as spirited! Its hard to resist the traffic light GP!! I also remember a lady in Dundee (sorry I can't remember your name) who can't charge at home and she had paid £10 in two and a half years of driving a Nissan Leaf. So sometimes public charging can be the cheapest option!

[@will4may175]

I am one of those that bought a virtually new Diesel right before the Government decided they were dangerous, I cannot afford to buy an electric car and my Diesel is now only worth half what it was before they decided to kill it off, so wont get enough towards getting one, and I bet they will go after Petrol next, so dont want to buy one of those either.

[@therealctoo4183]

That's your fault. The Government never told you that diesel was clean. You're not knowing that it's physically impossible to pull fossil fuels out of the ground (itself a dirty business) and burn them without creating pollution simply shows how your Government has failed to spend enough on education for far too long.

[@will4may175]

@@therealctoo4183 Not really, in 2001 UK government stated Diesels were safe for the enviroment, and made road tax a lot cheaper for them compared to petrol, so a lot of people got them, what the government didnt tell us is that they knew there was a lot of other polutants from them, its only been in the last 4 years that theyve backtracked and now admit Diesels are dangerous (older ones at least), but this is typical of UK government.

[@therealctoo4183]

@@will4may175 No, really. You bought into corporate lies, and are now you're using the excuse that somebody else was fooled by them too. Are you a teenager???

[@grahamworthy100]

Great topics. Just sold my 13 yr old transit maintenance and fuel over last two years £5300 average per year and 13000 per year = 4 year loan to buy an env200 van with 5 yrs warranty installed 7kw will cost me an extra £600 more in electric . at some time that van would have to get upgraded. So the figure would be higher in the 4 year ownership . charged every day mileage covered done 1300 miles and so pleased I went electric

[@Raybo1uk]

your right, the Government won't tax electricity they will tax the suppliers who provide the electricity, who in turn will increase their tariffs to cover the increase. Suppliers don't need much of an excuse to increase costs anyway thats for sure. Motorists are always at the thick end of taxes regardless of whether you drive petrol, diesel or electric cars so they will ensure there are ways of making money from motorists. How long do you think the "free charge points" will remain free? someone has to pay.

[@Brian-om2hh]

That would work wonders for manufacturing industry, would't it? It would push costs through the roof, and put millions out of work. How will anyone benefit from a wrecked economy?

[@pauljoe780]

FUEL-TAX FOR EV`S IS ZERO...... AT THE MOMENT! The loss of fuel-tax revenue for the Gov. would be, if they did nothing to replace it, catastrophic for their coffers. And therefore they won`t tolerate it for too long, of that you can be sure. So don`t feel too smug. An EV fuel-tax per mile is easily introduced via the MoT system in the UK, or State-Inspection in the States. It`s likely to be phased in over several years to make it less painful for the EV owner, but it`s coming soon to a friendly MoT station near you! In the very near future I think! And it`s likely to be on a par with petrol and diesel taxes before too much time has elapsed. So don`t get too excited, enjoy your savings while you can folks, it`ll be business as usual for the tax-man soon! Of that you can be sure!

[@markanthony3275]

There gonna keep on scaring people with climate change until they ban fossil fuels...and then people will find out it's too late. And then there will be no vehicles period.

[@andystreet4022]

@@markanthony3275 ...I think you're absolutely right. I can see the ICE being phased out completely over the next 10-20 years. I've just bought a 280 Bhp brute to enjoy before it all comes to an end....Greta Thunberg dared me.

[@markanthony3275]

@@andystreet4022 Do it for the trees, they need way more CO2 than we have right now...and do it because you are still FREE to do it. ENJOY!

[@pieterniemandt212]

@@markanthony3275 That is exactly what will happen. According to these know it all libs we were supposed to be flooded by now. And then they use extreme cycles of spring tide and hurricanes ( wich by the way is happening since the world came into existence) as boogeyman bedtime stories to tax the air we breathe. All to have money in progressing globalist evil agenda. They will find a way to tax batteries double than fossil fuels. They will tell you deposed batteries are fatal to the environment.

[@DaveyJonesLockerwithJazzy]

Savings? These cars cost a bloody fortune, and btw, .gov is bringing in car tax for everyone by 2021 .. and what do you think of things happen to your npower bill when everyone starts jumping onto the grid, yeah, go figure, assholes! I'll stick with my petrol lawnmower

[@johna8921]

Don't worry electric prices will go up.

[@johna8921]

That's why they want you to have smart meters. Petrol and diesel would be cheaper but the government takes 60% It's always good at the start bit like solar panels.

[@chriswallace8398]

Electric prices will go up but so will petrol and diesel.

[@Brian-om2hh]

The cost of electricity cannot be increased drastically because it is a staple necessity, with hospitals, schools, industry, care homes, the less wealthy, and many homes using it as a main source of heat and power. To begin increasing the cost to stupid levels would simply wreck the economy. Any government that did it would be committing political suicide. And any grand plan to fit special meters to electric car charge points in people's homes, would simply mean that many would buy solar panels and storage batteries to get free energy for their cars, and those who couldn't do that would simply unplug the telly when the went to bed, and charge the car on the normal domestic rate rather than get ripped off by some overtaxed rate.....

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@chriswallace8398 Exactly. Petrol and diesel costs *have* to go up if the price of electricity increases, because oil refineries use lots of electricity......

[@chrishazell3511]

like the video. the only questions I have is the secondhand market for some people cannot afford a new ev . how long do batteries last for . I've bought cars with over 100 k on the clock and did another 200k . and still sold it on

[@hjeffwallace]

Chris Hazell I have 2 EV’s. Bought with 30,000 miles. $15,000 US. Total. I looked for liquid cooled battery. They don’t have fast charge capability, so I know they haven’t been abused. Over 2 years no loss in range.

[@chrishazell3511]

@@hjeffwallace the point I'm trying to get across is 30000 miles is a new car hardly run in . an ev over 100000 miles on it . What's left in it without spending a small fortune to replace the batteries.

[@neil2742]

I did these calculations 4 years ago when I was looking at getting a new car. I was shocked at the saving. Unfortunately, there was no EV I could afford that could do the miles I do (25k per year). I ended up buying a hybrid. I do record how much I spend in petrol, my numbers are similar to those presented here.

[@reallyoldfatgit]

Concerning off street parking, my recent experience of hiring a couple of EVs is that, for us, it is entirely possible because we live 250 yds from a polar fast charger, so all I had to do on returning home was go around, plug in, walk home and go back in time to get the fully charged car. The charger is Polar and so I joined them and got 15p per unit (KWh). On one occasion the charger was broken and so I went further afield and found something to do whilst it charged, again at 15p per unit. I’d like to charge at home but that would mean running a lead across a pavement from our front door, when we buy one I’ll try it until somebody objects. It is easy to put down some flexible cable floor cover which I’d remove when not in use. I’d do that until someone objected and I got a snotty letter from the council.

[@thisisnumber0]

I've driven 700 miles today, no time to charge an EV. Talking about depreciation, how much is anyone going to pay for an EV when the battery is out of warranty? You'll end up giving the car away.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

thisisnumber0 Funny, many are already out of warranty and hold their value very well.

[@thisisnumber0]

That's because the general public doesn't know that batteries cost £000s. When they wake up, watch the value of used EV cars drop like a stone.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@thisisnumber0 Or is it because they don't need replacing in the time frame you seem to think they do. I'm guessing you've never driven one, let alone owned one!

[@thomtheunissen5827]

@@ElectricVehicleMan Go get them stupid haters :) i love it when peaple justify there purshase of an ice car and start hating on EVs

[@jslonisch]

It’s not that the batteries stop working - they just hold less. Here in Aus we have 10yo Leafs with batteries down to 50% of new due to heat issues and priced about 30% of new. There’s a thriving market for people who just want a cheap EV for local driving and don’t care about the range. No one is giving them away. 😉

[@komoriboy]

I do over 20,000 miles year, I'm getting 4.7 m/kwh. 50% is charged at work for free and the other 50% is overnight when it's cheap.

[@tinaturner5186]

Jeff Porter And of you do business miles, you can claim at the petrol rate, according to HMRC. That would be 40p/mile for the first 10,000 miles and 25p/mile thereafter. Get your employer to verify this. Failing that, when you do your UK tax return, you can claim the tax back for the difference in the rate that your employer pays you and the approved HMRC petrol use rates. Now every business trip is paying you.

[@komoriboy]

@@tinaturner5186 unfortunately not business miles, I just have an 80 mile round trip commute.

[@cgoodwin2875]

Very well done and fair comparison. The difficulty for me is that I run older vehicles and usually get 70 to 80mpg. Last car was a Smart for two diesel that got 80, the current one is an Audi A2 that does 70mpg. I would like an EV but have to make the jump from pleasant sub-2000 pound cars to pleasant cars well over £10k. Or, from cars without finance to cars with finance. I also don't pay depreciation and the tax is usually between £0 and £30 so the savings come down a balance between repayments and fuel consumption.

[@zxyqwerty123]

Shame the majority of the best small EV on the market (The Zoe) are battery lease which wipes out the savings in fuel cost almost completely. Great video by the way, just wish Renault would re think the battery lease.

[@PaulMansfield]

There's still vat on electric cars, which being more expensive than an ICE, and the vat is more than the PICG grant, so you're generally paying more tax anyway.

[@backwoodsbungalow9674]

At 14:54 "the are not going to put tax on electricity". They have already put VAT and environmental charges on electricity, which is increasing fuel poverty. In the UK a private car is regarded as a luxury, so the electricity used to charge our cars is highly likely to be taxed. HMRC will be able to get the electricity consumption from the car itself, so it will be possible to tax it more than electricity for home consumption.

[@Pelham22]

I know these are only very rough figures but the unfortunate daily elec charge (meter hire 😂) which companies add to your bills does add up over the100k period.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Which you’d be paying wether you had an EV or not. This is fuel costs, not house electricity costs.

[@nickb7040]

Thanks for concluding that for me and most people in the UK a diesel second hand car is hands down cheaper to own and run per mile. You also don't mention about winter on an ev, heaters lights etc.... I purchased a honda accord 8 years ago 50mpg for 2300 pounds. I have done 100k in it since then so I am at based on your calculations 11600 plus 2300. That's 13.9k not taking into account servicing. please tell me what electric family car that can take us on family holidays (250 miles one way) I can buy for 13.9k less the electric cost that includes winter use ? Don't forget how much those batteries cost to replace ! Thousands. My Honda has 214k on as of now with basic services, ain't no battery doing that! Your comparison should be type of vehicle ie a family one that 4 people can fit in as on average that is the most required car. It should include cost of ownership and fuel combined. The Average person living in the UK is a family, and does not own a brand new car )

[@robertkubrick3738]

@NotTheCIA I.think So, you think the air conditioning on an ev would be immortal? You are disqualified right there.

[@robertkubrick3738]

@NotTheCIA I.think You are a mechanical ignoramus. The air-conditioning system is going to go through temperature inversion cycles no mater what is spinning the compressor.

[@Plexipal]

With all that money you’ve saved when are you ordering your Model 3?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

At the current price, never.

[@Plexipal]

Electric Vehicle Man what you thinking of getting now then?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

A model 3.

[@Plexipal]

captain pugwash i already gave him £50 for joining Octopus Energy using his referral

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

We shared £100 from Octopus, and ultimately both save on normal bills.

[@BrasherFox]

I would have thought a 10,000 mile comparison would have been better. Just how long would it take the average motorist to get to 100,000 miles? 10 years? So the vast fluctuations in electric, fuel costs just can't be accounted for. Now over a 12 month, 10,000 mile for most people would be better. Don't have a EV but never say never eh. Nice channel so keep them g Comming.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

I’m sure you can divide everything by 10 yourself!

[@ldorman]

I did this calculations begin of 2018 and my numbers where slightly different as I included battery rental and car finance - brakes and general maintenance I left out, and the EV was more expensive then my Diesel - let me explain because the majority of people I know are in the same boat then me. After living in the city, I decided to move rural (4yrs ago). Rent in the city was so expensive that I live pretty much half-price on the country side, however I have to drive 45mls to work and home - what is not a biggy as have the motorway 10mls from my house. My fuel cost just for commute is £280 / month - it fluctuates but my car does on average 50mpg. To point out, I bought an old 10yr old BMW Diesel. I have no monthly payments for that car, it's mine. It get's full service every year when doing MOT and half way to the MOT I service it myself - basically every 15k I do an oil/oil filter and brake-pad change myself - yes I'm doing around 30k / year. Last year and this year I looked into EV - even considered used - but what put me off is the battery rental (Renault/Nissan) and range. If I have to pay £150/month just for rental, plus let's say £120 / month for the car finance, I would be under the £280/month - but then I have to calculate the electricity and I spend more. I use my personal car for business trips, what means I occasionally drive between Glasgow and Birmingham - the majority of the affordable EVs can't do this in one trip - I could work around it either by getting a rental for the trip or just take a break - not the end of the world, just a minor inconfincience. At the moment, at my work I have no possibility to charge the car - the office is in an multi business office building, multiple other companies in there have raised this to the landlord (Knight & Frank) but they seem to not care - at least no changes in the last 3 years except some other businesses moved out and a third of the building is now empty. The majority of people I know in my area commute between 30 and 40mls to work (each direction) - so doing similar mileage then me - and no wonder, the majority drives older cars, despite earning, again like myself way above the national average. I know of one person driving a Tesla Model S P90 - it's a company car - again he told me, that before he got that car he had to drive his personal car because the business mileage didn't covered the 35k/year; and he had an old car as well, for same reasons as the others - buy an old car so you have no finance payments - maintain it yourself - or our local garage here is good and reasonable priced. EVs are good and I would have one but if I would live in a city, I would have no car at all or a fun car (weekend sports car). Its there to replace SUVs - they good in suburbs but still city - ones you beyond suburbs and it gets rural you can't really use it. With the UK government now taxing them (VDT on a Tesla for example) they for my view still not there. Looking at some other countries, Norway/Oslo is the example, however the Norwegian government basically outsources their carbon footprint - there more incentives to get and drive an EV. UK and some other European countries still don't know what to do with them and there not enough incentives made for the public to get them. I stop now, this is getting way to long...

[@gzcwnk]

Petrol v electricity is only 3/4 's of the picture however, the other significant cost for 100,000miles is the servicing and repair costs. At 100,000miles however a Leaf's battery could be 30% less SoH than when bought 3% per year, (how to account for that?) . Since I am in NZ I work in kms so 100,000miles = 160,000km which is 10 years driving for me, and I very rarely fast charge (once this year so far). 16,000km per year saves me (NET) $4126NZD per year or $41260NZD in 10 years. My 2015 Leaf cost me $18800NZD, payback then is about 6 years.

[@fradaja]

The new leafs don't degrade as much as that due to proper thermal management

[@gzcwnk]

@@fradaja the new leafs dont have thermal management. A gen2 40kwh battery will fit in a gen1 leaf, its that similar.

[@fradaja]

gzcwnk quite right , I’ll stick to Tesla

[@daz.j]

that's all good until your batteries need replacing

[@patreekotime4578]

This old chestnut? Chrysler products were notorius for needing a new transmission after 80,000 miles, and plagued with electrical problems in the same period. Meanwhile, most EV manufacturers are honoring their warrantees even when people have seriously abused their batteries and killed them. The reality is that if you follow the manufacturer recommendations then the batteries will outlast the cars. And they don't usually die, just slowly get worse range.

[@1SaG]

@Ronove An electric motor has one moving part. No valvetrain, no lubrication-issues, no head gasket, no connecting rods, etc. My last car alone cost me a few thousand €s in repairs to the engine - and it was a brand new car which was serviced regularly and which I drove for 6 years and 90,000km. Problems with/wear of parts common to both ICE and EVs are irrelevant ... a Renault ZOE can suffer from a worn out shock absorber just like a Renault Clio can. Just like both will need fresh tires every so often. Besides: This whole argument about battery-life is pretty irrelevant anyway. Lease the battery-pack and the manufacturer will replace the battery if it croaks or even (in the case of Renault) if its capacity dips below 80%.

[@patreekotime4578]

@Ronove Tesla drivetrain has fewer than 100 moving parts. The single-speed gearbox in the Model 3/Semi has been road tested for over a million miles and shows no signs of wear. The brakes in most EVs require repairs not from overuse, but LACK of use. You have to get the RUST knocked off every so often so they don't seize up. And yes, they do have HVAC systems... But unlike ICE vehicles if the AC compressor locks up the car will still keep moving. EVs just flat out require less maintenance than ICE vehicles. Although, maybe that will change once big auto is a major player and they figure out how to make EV lemons.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@Slavery is Freedom, War is Peace Which EV's have you owned which have suffered mechanical problems? How long did you own them?

[@Brian-om2hh]

Which is why I personally wouldn't replace them. I'd have the battery pack refurbished at a fraction of the cost of a full replacement instead. Oh, you never heard of EV battery pack refurbs? Oh dear, you need to do more research before you post......

[@stevenbarrett7648]

We use the Lidl superchargers which are free, that’s when we can get to the front of the queue of Nissan Leaf taxi’s !

[@Ifyoudonttakeitucantfakeit]

40 mpg is generous and shows how a ev pays for itself! Well done 👍

[@douglastodd1947]

3 GALLON PETROL, OR 1 NUCLEAR POWER STATION.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

douglas todd Dont get you?

[@arteetmarteperfect4518]

Remember when diesel was considerably cheaper than petrol and there were few diesel cars on the road? It caught up and passed petrol. Electric Vehicles will follow the same pattern.

[@frankcorry8709]

Fantastic video thank you. Im not in the market for a new car but if I was Id be 100% swapping over to an ev. I think the video would have been better if you were to use 30, 40 & 50mpg rather than 40, 50 & 60mpg!! Loved your real world more realistic figures mind you but also think using a price per mile (2.5p v 14p) would of gotton me more excited but yea a crackin video with loads of interesting points!!!

[@kevinn1158]

Wow, fuel is incredible expensive in the UK. Petrol in Canada is 65-70p per litre. The Nissan Leaf is 48k CAD. The Honda Civic ranges between 19k to 30k CAD. It's quite a different formula here. It would take a much longer time to make up that difference between the costs.

[@Brian-om2hh]

About 70% of the cost is tax Kevin....

[@kevinn1158]

@@Brian-om2hh I'm sure. On our pumps in Canada they show the break down of the costs of the fuel. I could believe how levels of tax there is.

[@mick8678]

Great video, i am genuinely wanting a ev but i have my car on pcp and no matter how i looked at it over 3 years with 10,000miles a year i didnt save any money as the ev's was coming up at 350 to 400 pcm where as the Toyota auris hybrid i ended up getting is only 180pcm and even with petrol added on its only 240pcm I just cannot justify paying more for a car yet

[@rhiantaylor3446]

The first comment to balance fuel savings with the larger purchase/depreciation/interest costs - congratulations.

[@falco247]

Just wait till EVs have to pay their proportional share of taxes that make the combustion brothers so expensive to run. Only thing making EVs attractive is that they dont pay for the roads they use.

[@maskofsan1ty]

Petrol cars pay for the pollution they generate not for using the road. They also cost more to the economy than they generate. A logical tax system would not tax EVs anywhere near as much as combustion cars.

[@thebazgaz]

If you factor in the UK Average annual mileage is around 8-10k, most new cars are now done on 3 or 4 year leases then renewed (say 40k) , and additional list pricing of EV models, youd be looking at a much closer calculation. EVs depreciation cant be factored into a financial decision as you cant assume that will continue.

[@FFVoyager]

I completely agree with your comments about getting a house with a driveway. I predict in the near future property with off-street parking will have a greater value than ones without for that very reason.

[@davidlewis4399]

At some point the government will not be able to sustain the loss of revenue from non ev cars and will get the tax back. This is likely to be less than 3 years from now before they start charging some tax. When that happens price of Ev will tank.

[@Brian-om2hh]

No it won't because the lost revenue will be recouped by introducing a system of road tolls. The more you use the roads, the more you pay. It is already in discussion with the Government and the AA/RAC.....

[@octapc]

Or you use work's electricity ;)

[@MILKYBAR1969]

My boss is a miser😭

[@ridgview]

Your Boss doesn’t owe you a living.

[@tomsixsix]

Sadly I have to pay 18p/kWh for my electricity at work (rate+20% VAT).

[@octapc]

ridgview Does if he wants the work done. Never know, it might become a benefit just like some companies offer gym or life insurance

[@ridgview]

@@tomsixsix Wow, you folks in the UK really get hosed with your taxes! V.A.T. is EVIL!

[@jgkkvkddjjfgfjgr]

I've not come across anyone adding the cost of battery replacement to the running cost. For example let's say lifespan of the battery is 200,000 miles. Assuming cost of replacing the battery is $10,000 (new battery cost - scrap value). So for 100,000 miles add $5000 to the running cost (cost of charging). All of this is assuming the battery lasts 200,000 miles. The running cost would be higher if we take into consideration the decrease in range of batteries as they age.

[@Brian-om2hh]

You don't necessarily replace the battery. When the battery pack efficiency begins to drop, you can have the failing cells removed and replaced with new ones. The cost is a fraction of a new pack and the work takes about as long as a clutch swap on a fossil fuel car.... The battery pack is warranted for the first 8 years, although there are examples of the Nissan Leaf at 10+ years old, still on their original battery. It just isn't the issue many seem to think.

[@CynicalMiracal]

I drive 300 miles from England to Wales early morning then come back in the evening so 600 miles, in winter I have electric heated seats + heated steering wheel on with the heating on as well, 90% of it I'm in darkness.. I think electric cars are the way to go but for now it seems only ideal if you don't leave your town.. I know you said it doesn't matter but realistically you want a drive to charge it on..

[@MrGonzonator]

And you drive those 300miles without stopping to eat or use a toilet? You are superhuman. The Model 3 can add 150miles of range in under 15 mins. If that's just not practical enough for you then I would argue you are in the tiny minority for whom compromise is a dirty word.

[@spencerwilton5831]

qwertylolzdwjkz so you drive for a living? I'm curious why 90% is in the dark- surely you can't commute and fit in a days work during daylight- six hundred miles is about ten hours driving given traffic etc taking your average to 60mph. I'd either quit my job or move closer if that's the case.

[@CynicalMiracal]

@@spencerwilton5831 Its been a while and I was wrong, it's 162 miles there and obviously the same back so 320ish miles in a day, it's not a commute its usually 2 maybe 3 times every month excluding winter, I leave early hours in the morning to try and avoid traffic, on a half decent day it shouldn't take longer than 3 hours, I don't mind the drive as long as I'm not driving much in between but I would dread delaying the ordeal with charging on top, I think evs will be the future but I'm glad I got a diesel a couple of years ago and didnt become essentially a beta tester to evs

[@10wanderer]

and where /how will the electric come from , re we do not have enough generating means in the UK . most Nuclear power stations are nearing the end of their life . Windmills ?? a load of wind !!!

[@johnchild5246]

Its unfortunate that all the hot air expended cant be used to generate electricity for the charging stations.ROFLMAO

[@bloodyliar]

There is a program of Nuclear Builds in this country .... unfortunately you'll have to work out car mileage costs in Miles per Yuan

[@Brian-om2hh]

The National Grid have stated on numerous occasions that there will be no issues with EV usage in the UK. And as they're the people who actually run the grid, I'll take their word over yours.... The National Grid were one of the organisations whom lobbied to get the ban on the sale of new ICE cars and vans brought *forward* to 2030 from 2035. The NG anticipate 9 million EV's on Britain's roads by 2030, and 30 million by 2040. The UK's oil refineries produce 14 million gallons of petrol and 11 million gallons of diesel per day. Each gallon requires 6 to 8 kw of electricity to produce it. You do the maths......

[@dpd6401]

Interesting video, but I’m not convinced. You should watch the attached video from Australia where after 5 years a Nissan Leaf owner was quoted $30,000 to replace the battery. What the EV cult need to remember is that lithium is in shorter supply than oil. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpDdlaeXf8qMo9k

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

The Leaf comes with an 8 year warranty and lithium isn’t in short supply at all. Stop reading tabloids.

[@dpd6401]

Electric Vehicle Man you’re just another EV cult follower with their head in the sand!

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Come on, attack the argument, not the person. Classic sign of losing.

[@Brian-om2hh]

And perhaps you ought to remember that EV batteries can be recycled at the end of their lives, with the lithium and cobalt being 90% recovered and reused in new batteries. You cannot recycle and reuse old burned petrol or diesel...... And why would you need to replace a Nissan Leaf battery after 5 years when it has an 8 year warranty? .... It might also be relevant to mention that EV battery packs can be refurbished at a fraction of the cost of a full replacement. Replacement is not the *only* option. Here in the UK, we already have independent specialists doing that job. One particular EV specialist refurbished a 10 year old Leaf pack for £600. The video of the refurb is still here on KZbin. So it may not be wise to believe all the silly EV stories you see or hear....most are posted by people whom have never owned an electric car.....

[@dpd6401]

@@Brian-om2hh just keep drinking the EV cult - Kool Aid mate.

[@joedilellio3627]

60 mpg? Does such a thing exist? I'm more likely to find 16mpg here in the states, plus the bravado of owning such a beast as well as calling it 'efficient' (better than 15mph or less I suppose). Edit: Glad you covered the up front versus continuing costs. At a recent NDEW event the upfront was all a few people focused on. As the child of accountants it drives me crazy.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

That’s UK gallons remember.

[@joedilellio3627]

@@ElectricVehicleMan Derp me, you're correct. Still, that's 48/40/32 mpg which even the lowest is 7mpg better than our average of 24.7 mpg. Our fuel is way too cheap...

[@rhiantaylor3446]

Interesting and useful comparison. I recently saw an eNero review that indicated that £30k+ car could be had as a new ICE version for £17k which rather wipes out that future potential fuel saving. For me the dominant issue is indeed the vehicle purchase price but actually its the fact that I can currently buy a good used diesel car for £7k and, if I assume 60mpg and £1.32/litre, my 100k "fuel plus initial purchase" cost is just .... £17k.