Elemental Shaman TRAGEDY - The War Within

A video discussing the pros and cons of the recent elemental shaman rework.

[@AaronOysterPT]

I saw in the blue post that they basically said it was a work in progress, and was going to need adjustments. This kind of feedback will surely improve the class (one would hope). Thanks for taking the time to put this together!

[@DanielCruz-qr6qu]

Sure, just like shadow priest...they did such a great job /s

[@nikolaculina3583]

Hello Supatease and to anyone who reads this. A couple of fellow EU (and myself) shamans testing on beta have a slightly different build which includes Skybreaker and Primal Elementalist. With the removal of Windspeaker, this is the primary way to generate maelstrom and LvB procs, and it feels good. Keep in mind that on beta, we don"t have access to crafted gear and tier is only normal lvl, so we have lower stats. In addition to all of this, the Elemental Blast from ancestors and even the proc from Fusion talents hit HARD. If you feel like it, you can even try taking EB by default, proc Icefury and then use Ancestral Swiftness on EB to immedeately proc the second one and proceed to weave buffed Frost Shocks and Lava Bursts. In my duel testing this was easily 50% hp gone without critting. So our current playstyle is largely preserved with Farseer, but overall we shoulsd have less pad, but more impactful instances of burst damage.

[@thecowd_bro1245]

Thank you. I thought aswell his build wasnt fully optimized and that Skybreaker is pretty much a must pick to basically have full uptime on your fire elemental so you essentially have 33% perma inc on tic rate for flameshock.

[@luansantanasantos9135]

Could you share the build link?

[@nikolaculina3583]

Supa not having Skybreaker here is not the main issue I have with this video....the bigger problem is him complaining about the proc rate while having only 1 Flame Shock ticking, with nerfed stats....like, you shouldn't exactly expect a proc city there. Overall, you will see less instant Lava Bursts, but not dramatically less. The most noticeable nerf is the removal of Windspeaker's, and the main culprit why it feels so you have less instant LvBs. If you ever thought why would we ever want 3 charges of LvB, this is why...I deffo found myself hardcasting more LvBs. Keep in mind that this new design is by intent. The plan was to reduce the number of instants. On retail, ele basically doesn't cast any of it's damage....However, I am really in love with the new Icefury and Fusion of the elements talents. It is all instant, and it gives us a good burst window outside of CDs. Lack of proper burst in PvP is my biggest issue with retail ele atm. TWW ele has more nuke potential, and that feels infinitely better than this super pad damage profile on retail, where you can basically only win in deeeeeep damp or when healers are OOM.

[@FokiHun]

@@luansantanasantos9135 CYQA5fJcMDuaCEWS2UofGu4XcCAAAAAMLzyyYwYmZbbmZMzwYAAAAAwmZ2GmZGGDLMbbz0QzsAAMmmZYsZMz0MmZmBWmxMDz2ML2YmZmBzYA There you go.

[@kwame1601]

He barely did any testing and made a video complaining. He is not even a shaman main. I wish people would stick to what they know and leave my class out of their videos lol.

[@connor3198]

The Elemental Shaman rework is what I've wanted the spec to be like forever. A raid buff, lightning shield not being useless, that new shield embue, almost constant elemental minion uptime. This is what we've needed.

[@TheBrutalshock]

They said they uploaded part of the changes by mistake in a post if Im not mistaken

[@Jallandhara]

let's not forget that Farseer tree, proc rate, and damage FUCKING SUCKS

[@Naturalhigh8]

hero talents are a joke in general. 7 or 8/11 of the don't even have choices. you just take it and forget it. such a lazy design that is pushing me further away from coming back to the game. They just are not good at design anymore.

[@outcast1sub7]

Tuning can easily happen with proc rates and damage. I do feel that if they keep the maelstrom nerfs they need to buff the finishers to feel more impactful and with the nerf the hero talent is even more of an issue to spend 400 maelstrom before even being able to use it, they honestly need to drop it down to 100 maelstrom to make it feel decent.

[@voidgrim9465]

100% agreed, always feel like shaman gameplay is to fast, u ain't spend your resources because is just low priority to other DPS abilities, and that's really stupid. I mean every spec in the game says - don't overcap resources, but not ele

[@minecraftminer59mineboymin38]

@@voidgrim9465 yeah in aoe you get lava burst proc every 0.3 sec haah

[@PapaFidgey]

I really enjoy the changes. Both builds feel fun and the Icefury changes adds a ton of mobility to the class

[@CJ-js9dq]

Cheers for the vid , good to see it in action or stale non action as it looks like. From a purely pvp perspective ele was in such a good place for me that i think any changes away from that were always gonna be disappointing. but especially as it just doesnt seem to have be changed too anything...its just been moved around , no new stuff , no new combos or spells to work around , but it is early days

[@aryeldesiderio8229]

How do can use details in Beta?

[@jamiebuyers]

Stormbringer is going to be the rated BG spec, it's built to focus on chain lightning when you have 3 or more targets you have more than enough maelstrom from storm keeper and the 3 free instant cast CL from tempest and spreading flame shock about. The single target pressure on one target comes from your lava burst and making the kill target (most likely a healer) a lightning rod and doing massive aoe damage which 20% gets funneled into the lightning rod along with your direct damage. Farseer is primordial windows of burst, the proc rate of lava surge was supposed to go up with a single flame shock out so I would wait on tuning since it's obvious from the drought they having adjusted the coefficients accurately enough. One thing that it does need is consistency to that burst so primordial granting a lava surge proc on cast would solve this and coupled with the new totem of wrath giving you the old sky fury 20% crit damage buff you have excellent burst potential on a 45s timer. Maelstrom generation is low because proc rate is low so those need focusing on for sure.

[@bos7522]

Yeah but they already tried this version in Legion and it stunk... horribly even. It was literally the same thing, u either pick 3 minute ascend or play lightning rod, so ure either full st or full aoe, u barely get any procs, and u feel like ure doing so much but ure really doing no damage.

[@davidschultz2198]

Can you highlight how enhance needs some help please

[@KingsAmbience]

I really hope they don’t scrap the lava lava playstyle, it’s so satisfying

[@joshuat2751]

i believe it was either legion or BFA where the malestorm generation was reduced and made the class feel SOOOOO bad like terribly clunky

[@schmooplesthesecond5997]

the maelstorm generation being reduced is the biggest problem for me. hope they revert it back

[@Macrossprime]

Now let us know what you think about enhance's pvp prospects!

[@therockontheshelf]

Yeah i feel like the two ascendance upgrades should be combined into 1, maybe even make it a 2 pointer. Having it be an option between the reduced cd and the buff isnt right. If it was 2 min cd as well then it would line up nicely with spiritwalkers grace so the whole remainng stationary thing isnt an issue.

[@john-paulmathieu7195]

As someone that has already been playing volcanic surge for pvp - I'm actually enjoying the changes quite a bit. Though I do agree the new talents for proc damage is weak and the ascendance talent should have reduced cd by 1 min and give haste instead of making it a choice node.

[@theflyest6595]

Looks like they want casters actually casting this time around

[@H4zz10]

All well and good wanting casters to cast, but if they're not going to do something about melee mobility creep and micro cc stopping you from casting for 10 seconds or more (not including an actual kick per the skill capped video from a while ago covering this topic) it's going to be one hell of a rough time.

[@danielsmith2483]

​@@H4zz10all kicks need a 45 seconds cool down and global DR also with that nerf all casted healing by 20-40%

[@H4zz10]

@@danielsmith2483 it won't happen for one simple reason, m+. That's why all this is the way it is.

[@H4zz10]

@@danielsmith2483 that won't happen because mythic + is a thing.

[@attinger117]

They need to fix maelstrom generation but other than that I love these changes. Ele on live spams low damage lava bursts but ele on beta is more of a nuke style class. They haven’t done tuning yet so hopefully soon spells will start hitting hard. They have to hit hard because they nerfed overloads by a ton. Small amount of lava bursts = lava burst can hit hard, which is good and returning ele to its roots.

[@maciejbrodecki9667]

Take all maelstrom generating talents, take Skybreaker's and it's not bad. Farseer has another passive to lower Fire Ele CD. With it maelstrom generation isn't perfect but way better. Also proc rates are better since on Fire Ele Flame Shock ticks 33% faster. With 3 targets it's actually decent. Not DF but you have quite nice amount of procs. With proper gearing I think it will be ok.

[@paraskamu]

they really need to adjust the proc rate heavily. I hope all ele shamans are giving that feedback to blizz.

[@FokiHun]

For what it's worth, there are over 10 confirmed Elemental bugs that each hinder the spec's performance at the moment. I think the reduction from the degeneracy that came from Dragonflight is much needed and a way healthier approach to ele's spec design. Farseer is half bugged as well, but stormbringer is simply non-viable for now unfortunately.

[@eliotness107]

I tested a bit yesterday and the problems i had was generating maelstrom was extremely bad. Even spamming AOE it took forever to get maelstrom to cast elemental blast. It was not fun to generate that little

[@nathand7334]

why isnt shaman more earth centric. we have destro lock and fire mage that both use fire. I kind of want something different

[@farmerjoseph8683]

ya and give us Deeptremor Stone Earth Elemental has a permanent Earthquake attached to it.

[@zimtot]

Thanks Supa! Hopefully we'll get better itarations next week. I really hope they make a lightning build viable for pvp. Doesn't seem like it'll happen, but I'm hoping for it.

[@MrGeorge102]

stormbringer with pvp talent instant lighting bolt and bl will be mandatory

[@zimtot]

@@MrGeorge102 I get the bl one, but is there a new talent for instant lightning bolt? Or do you mean 50% faster cast with volcanic surge?

[@MrGeorge102]

@@zimtot volcanic surge, they also added a new talent for faster cast times on lighting bolts

[@zimtot]

@@MrGeorge102 gotcha. ty

[@Lifiron]

My fav was ele. And now the procs for lave burst is gone so am i

[@Badgerdance]

Looks like old school ele, wotlk style. I actually think it looks WAY better than the current stupid machine gun version

[@ansianito5148]

But that is the worst build ever, you just have 1 of the last talents, no stormkeper.

[@ronodon18]

i think lightningbolt and chainlightning should also proc icefury AND icefury should improve nature/physical dmg too. you would get more mobility and ressource for singletarget. flameshock singletarget without lavaburst also feels bad so they need to change something

[@tedhar]

Funny how shaman is the only class that gets WORSE after a "rework". The meme lives on!

[@Dinnky13]

Optomistic for tuning and maybe a burst build. Will miss what made ele feel viable in pvp tho by being able to do dmg while kiting.

[@pushit91]

yay waiting for the re-rework

[@taden2007]

Wish they would bring back 2 hander enhancement

[@kevinjs26]

Yes. Elemental is very janky. I'm loving the idea of the icefury element weaving, but much of everything else feels very out of whack.

[@Oblivionplayer12345]

The relative damage buff that is needed to casted spells like LB over the instant cast version will need to be wayyy higher to compensate for the fact that you are standing still in PvP. Usually there is a trade off but here it just flat out sucks.

[@wvjeepguy8178]

Me in Cataclysm Classic playing elemental: nice! *chef's kiss* Me on retail playing elemental: *Joe Peci "what the fuck is this shit" meme*

[@cyanogen7582]

Cata and MoP elemental was amazing.

[@MrGeorge102]

If y want more maelstorm, you have to play aftershock in elemental tree and not surge of power. Unless they buff our maelstorm generation, you can pick surge

[@anders-h]

How's enhance feeling?

[@Needler13]

The same, nothing changed for them

[@PrzemekOsowski]

that 'reworks' is pure tragedy. atleast for me. p wave and ascendance is in every spec (ele resto enh) every spec is so simillar now. As enh you have every elemental ability except earthquake it's just sad.

[@farmerjoseph8683]

I wish they would move earth elementall baseline and replace the current talent node with Deeptremor Stone Earth Elemental has a permanent Earthquake attached to it from shadowlands

[@kiraos6732]

they generally did great in improving ele this week in vetay. Still some bugs and tuning to sort out, but overall we're in a much better place now than before. Speaking as a PvEr.

[@mattharris1088]

My beta consistently crashes, cant even test anything

[@collegehumorrulz1]

Thought so. This kinda kills eles role in PVP. No longer just a sustained aoe damage class. Now just a worse warlock.

[@jacobflores8666]

Negative. Elemental never was a "sustained" AoE damage dealer until modern WoW. Rather, elemental was always a high (and random) single target burst damage dealer with decent spread pressure from chain lightning and earthquake. I much prefer elemental shaman when lava burst with unleash did half of someone's health bar over infinite lava surge procs that are only pad damage on an entire team. Dragonflight elemental is actually a tragedy.

[@HKono_]

@@jacobflores8666 very based and true

[@minecraftminer59mineboymin38]

didnt think it could get worse

[@StrobeFireStudios]

@@jacobflores8666 Yeah same. I remember in Wrath, Lava Burst was like..a MUST avoid spell or just die. It was a scary spell to get hit by. Now, Lava Bursts are like machine gun bullets and do nothing. Lava Burst needs to hit hard, like frost mage's Glacial Spike.

[@EMdragonKnight]

Ele had a role in pvp?

[@KeeperOLight]

They did the same thing to Demo locks, got rid of all the free instant cast procs. They want ranged actually casting again.

[@grogesy1344]

bro, you release a vid on every blue post which for one yes it passes the time as War within draws closer but come on Supa, have you tested this out in Solo shuffles, duels bg's ect..?? i see Blizz inform us there's more to come and this is not final. i mean look at how many blue posts we actually see week in week out, defo more devs working on the game most likely since microsoft took over. can we actually see some Data like Snupy / Venruki ect.. i do appreciate you're vids but surely need some data to dive into

[@dTheHammerb]

They fucked up Elemental Shaman as well? Tf is wrong with this dev team bro. We're days away from TWW Launch.

[@kiraos6732]

Na they generally did great in improving ele this week in vetay. Still some bugs and tuning to sort out, but overall we're in a much better place now than before.

[@kevinspencer1222]

TWW comes out august 26th

[@andrewshandle]

The fact that the DF Ele shaman was so broken that it because the poster spec for cheating with non-stop spamming instant casts, a change isn't a huge surprise.

[@bos7522]

Yeah i called it already on ur stream, they just brought back Legion elemental. Hardcast everything and feel miserable doing it.

[@GrimmRanger-Thrall]

any new build for arcane ?

[@swiftfeet9064]

there is like 30 buttons in the class tree alone...

[@magdabrownis265]

Good

[@epicstudios142536]

Go play fury warr or bm hunter if u want an xbox controller class

[@AlexB-cx4ch]

This rework forces ele to play like a destro lock with less mobility/cc/defensives…

[@jashkevrc]

Lava builds are kinda dead if this changes stay, should have took S3 playstyle and build around it, it was most fun i ever had on ele

[@ErnestoTrueba]

At this point, the talent system is... pointless, you can pick every single skill and basicly do everything regardless the spec, its just idiotic

[@user-xm3zm6im3k]

theyll add numbers, ull add haste later on - it will be fine

[@fionaburns4210]

literally new spell effects now please

[@Damingo54]

Bring back big lava burst damage please

[@suidas84]

Oh no, my hybrid class only has 1m absorbs... please..

[@farmerjoseph8683]

ya its supper low im currently getting 2.3 million crit heals that i can cast all the time so ya 1mill on a 2 min cd is low

[@Amplifymagic]

Doomer clickbait, Ele is fierce, best part is the flexibility of talent options

[@inflexi2024]

Dont know why an ele shaman cant have a build that works that just allows you to weave different types of magic into it. I had a build in DF that was super fun and cool to play but just sucked so hard. You used Lava Burst to build maelstrom, then earth shock to proc extra overloads on lightning bolt. Could get X5 overloads and it was super fun to play. but it just sucked and you were forced to press lavaburst endlessly for 2 years

[@J0J0McM0M0]

give eles lightning bolt while moving back and i'll return to wow

[@michaelupperco7335]

I think your dmg would of be way higher if you actually popped your storm elemental

[@alexanderrudenko331]

These Chinese numbers of damage and hp are disgusting.

[@tonedubs6414]

Made a caster cast, i like it 👍🏽 but genuinely I think it'll be alr for the ppl who like to play ele

[@MrZeuz666]

This is exactly what I feared, and knew. Elemental going to be a useless version of Destruction Warlock (from DF) in PvP.

[@minecraftminer59mineboymin38]

elemental feels like 150% slower now, guess its going enhancement this expa

[@gageracer]

MS generation is not a problem as on my testings Elemental Blast is my highest damage with both Stormbringer and Farseer. That is a really minor change, not an issue. Things don't have to be exactly the same with a new talent tree.

[@maciejbrodecki9667]

True. I don't get it why he didn't go for Skybreaker's. With Flame Shock generating maelstrom talent with Skybreaker's and passive from Farseer tree you have a very small downtime on Fire Ele. During Fire Ele Flame Shocks tick 33% faster so they generate way more procs. I'm really surprised he ignored it. I know both talents were nerfed in PvP but they both work. Why would you take Power of the Maelstrom as Farseer - I don't get this one.

[@yourexiscute8229]

Yeah, I really like using Elemental Blast with Ancestral Swiftness, just like I did in MoP. Elemental Blast is my favorite spell, and I hope it will be/stay viable.

[@Drazee123]

I got %38 versa and I died from %90 hp in 0.8 sec just yesterday from lava burst procs. fuck that. good riddance.

[@RootSwing1191]

Why would you want homogenization of classes? Just because Dh and rogue have 2 charges of some mobility tool doesn’t mean ENH has to have that too.. same thing with mage barrier, the complaints to the devs should be about trade off and uniqueness in class identity. When you rally a community together by comparing a spec to another spec with complaints that this X1 isnt as strong as X2 so we need to buff X1 = X2 instead of letting this class have a strong X while another class gets a strong Y and so on… the Azeroth universe was so much more fun in the time when some classes simply didn’t have stuns or interrupts, barriers or mobility. That brought unique value to the classes that did. Seems like the freaking content “creators” are just becoming one big homogeneous complaint themselves now with no risk of unique opinion.

[@minecraftminer59mineboymin38]

i always liked proc every 0,3 sec in aoe in mythic+ :(

[@plague6174]

Lol this is what people get overhyping rework news as "good news" like man its not always gonna be a 10.0.7 overtuned Ret rework. Just expect disappointment and we'll never be disappointed, and maybe the world could shock us.

[@MrGeorge102]

I hate lava lava playstyle, I prefer lighting build all the way

[@thatherton]

seems like wow is going away from anything hardcasted being viable anymore. melee have infinite mobility and most casters barely cast

[@Tixsi11]

I hope this doesn't become the new ele.. that would ffing suck big time ! ! !

[@Altruistic-General]

They need to remove all the melee mobility and micro cc's if they want casters casting this much. World of meleecraft otherwise.

[@JayKay-do1jv]

do the devs purposely try to do the opposite of waht the community says / wants? shits actually wild, nobody asked for this shit

[@StrobeFireStudios]

Ah...Shaman, shaman, shaman. Never ever in a good place. WotLK was probably the most destructive it's ever been. Now, it seems, even the developers don't even like the class, or have no idea what to do. Guess I'll main my affliction since Wither hits harder than a fucking freight train.

[@HlghV0LTag3]

Ele was A/S tier for the whole of this expansion wdym?

[@cyanogen7582]

I prefer the hop around lava burst proc and instants playstyle for ele that’s reminiscent of MoP. MoP is peak ele design for me in terms of playstyle. I’m enjoying the current dragonflight iteration and I hope they keep the lavaburst slinging proc playstyle alive.

[@Levelity]

So why not just play Mage instead?

[@WoWDontu]

It’s just numbers tuning at this point. The mechanics are good.

[@blankspace4358]

You didnt watch the video lol

[@OrsoPolareYT]

Delusional

[@maciejbrodecki9667]

If you dot 3 targets proc rate is actually fine. Feels like season 1 DF. Keep in mind that it's season 1. You don't have any crafted PvP gear and set pieces have lower ilvl than the PvP ones you will get. Your haste is few % lower than it will be. That's first. 2nd of all I don't know why Supa invested in Power of the Maelstrom and Echo Chamber in Lava Burst build. With Skybreaker's Fiery Demise and Primal Elementalist he can get a decent damage with Elemental and maintain 10% damage buff longer. I think early in the expansion Magma Chamber might be better since we don't press Earth Shock that often and in later seasons I'd go for Lightning Conduit. It seems that Skybreaker's got unnerfed since you can keep quite high Elemental uptime with it. Also keep in mind that Ancestral lowers Fire Ele CD. I also skipped on use Ascendance as it makes you too stationary imo. It kinda feels like season 1/early season 2 DF Elemental. CYQA5fJcMDuaCEWS2UofGu4XcCAAAAAMLzyyYYmZmZjZmZmZMGAAAAAsZmlhZmhxwGz2yMN0MLAAz20MDzsZGjmxMzAWmZmZsYbmtBGzAzYA Feel free to test it CYQA5fJcMDuaCEWS2UofGu4XcCAAAAAMbzyyMjZGmZjZMMmZGAAAAAsZmlhZmhxwGz2yMN0MbAAz20MDzsZGjmxMzAWmZmZsYbmtBmZGDmZA This would be my Lightning Build. Nice burst with Stormkeeper but my problem is Tempest. It's so weak at the moment that I consider macro with /cancelaura it's effect to be able to use Lightning Bolts normally and play it like early S1 Dragonflight - wait for Power of the Maelstrom and then pump Lightning Bolts on Stormkeeper with Surge of Power. Also I'm not sure if I wouldn't try mixture of Haste/Versa and a little Crit instead of Mastery since it doesn't scale that well anymore. Procs are only 25%-35% depends on the talent and damage increase with 29% mastery is around 9%. Remember Elemental has better Crit modifier and Crit also buffs Skybreaker's -> more uptime on Fire Ele -> more maelstrom.

[@Psylo94]

can you talk about the enhance shaman tragedy ? xd no mobility no damage still skishy can barely hit any target cuz everyone have freedom or insane speed we have all our burst on gcd idk about tww anymore ngl

[@5133937]

Enhance probably got off lucky, not getting any changes. Ele changes destroyed the spec.

[@commonsense82]

The maelstrom generation is horrible, I didn't like it at all.and Going from pretty much a free caster to a turret is painfully not fun.

[@MrGeorge102]

You will play with bl talent, and yl be able to cast fast, crit build one shot build is back baby, fuck that machine gun kelly lava lava all the time

[@lesekkaras808]

i would recommend doing first some research on class before doing some overview of class, this is just trash with bad rotation inacurate builds etc. i am sorry mate

[@mateusgus]

the shield is strong af thinking its party wide and u get 5 in one use. The ele changes are really cool

[@HKono_]

shamans non stop 👉 😭

[@farmerjoseph8683]

its all a matter of the mind on how you perceive reality some see it as healthy discussion some as you see the world dim so see it as upset its all a delusion of your own brain

[@Ashes22dust]

You actually got heaps of lava burst procs

[@996068927]

I dislike these changes other than raid buff. Icefury is kinda a mess. In lightning build we won't cast enough lava bursts to proc icefury. Plus icefury was something you can control when to use (in preparation for movement) to just becoming a random proc that you need to track.

[@SupDude12345]

Supa can you speak with your friends at Blizzard and ask them to create an earthen melee spec for shamans? With a talent node to opt in to tanking aswell, similar to the fistweaving talent. I want to ride an earth elemental class mount aswell. Thank you! :)

[@kubasniak]

Ele sham is trash now.

[@justtellmethetruth7377]

This looks really bad. Seems they have destroyed what made ele fun to play. I'm not a slave to WOW, I won't mind cancelling my sub util it playable again.