Elena Ferrante: Frantumaglia

[@flowerswithpowers]

I’m surprised that when discussing Lila’s ability/inability to leave the neighborhood no one mentioned or remembered that when the girls were children and skipped school to see the sea, Lila became afraid and went back. Ferrante foreshadows Lilas heavy tether to the neighborhood that she never really escaped, and probably couldn’t for the reasons discussed but also because she was afraid of losing the boundaries and tether that she actually needed to feel formed. Lenu always acted in reaction and opposition so this force propelled her forward and out but also back like a boomerang. Sometimes Lenu let herself see how afraid Lila was but chose to see and ascribe her own fearlessness and ruthlessness to Lila, perhaps in her own way to stay formed in her shadow and imagine as well.

[@johennesseys]

"She makes every moment into one that you could have lived" Roxana Robinson on Elena Ferrante. "This s written from the inside - in such a way - that is both sure and reckless " Judith Thurman I am obsessed with the Neapolitan novels and so glad that Elena Ferrante has been able thus far to preserve her anonymity.

[@jjhill6811]

I loved listening to these womens' in depth understanding of Ferrante's novels that I obsessively read.

[@flowerswithpowers]

I’m surprised that when discussing Lila’s ability/inability to leave the neighborhood no one mentioned or remembered that when the girls were children and skipped school to see the sea, Lila became afraid and went back. Ferrante foreshadows Lilas heavy tether to the neighborhood that she never really escaped, and probably couldn’t for the reasons discussed but also because she was afraid of losing the boundaries and tether that she actually needed to feel formed. Lenu always acted in reaction and opposition so this force propelled her forward and out but also back like a boomerang. Sometimes Lenu let herself see how afraid Lila was but chose to see and ascribe her own fearlessness and ruthlessness to Lila, perhaps in her own way to stay formed in her shadow and imagine as well. Lila was also wildly fearless, ruthless, and untamed but in defiance of the neighborhood with have her boundaries. Dissolving boundaries is a really important concept they don’t talk about enough.

[@jeanettesdaughter]

I love that Ferrante lets her books live on their own. It is a selfless act especially in These narcissistic times. Good divorce is a nice way of putting that. I revisit often; she doesn’t need to. Or if she returns to the neighborhood quietly.,. Well, that’s a thing that we who have fled the neighborhood do from time to time, anonymously. Good on her❤

[@meiamchedlishvili5938]

The host could at least have checked who Pasolini was before reading the introduction.

[@SculptExpress-gv8jp]

I think that moving out of the neighborhood and having access to more sophisticated world is not at all about suppression of one’s roots. It’s about having a chance to be your better self, which is hard or impossible in one’s poor neighborhood. Poor neighborhoods are full of violence and betrayal and to survive there you have to learn those skills. This is precisely what Lila had to do and did to her own rules. Lenu was lucky not to have to do that to survive.

[@jeanettesdaughter]

That’s a superficial analysis. The ghetto or poor neighborhood is a living breathing place as rich in its contours and convolutions as the dead zones of the wealthy. She was an heroic character in her ragged and harsh home place. . She brought beauty, elegance and courage. Her presence didn’t gild but it left a golden glow over everything she touched. Her friend on the other hand left for her and everyone else into that larger world where women were not welcomed either. They were tethered these two brilliant friends and those worlds - despite these huge class and caste differences - are tethered. I imagine Ferrante is a huge embarrassment to the Italian elites. There is no escaping the ties that bind. Who else writes so poignantly about the suffering of brilliant girls in situations of un Freedom and masculine violence⁉️

[@SculptExpress-gv8jp]

I beg to disagree. Ferrante is definitely not an embarrassment to Italian elites since Italy is also known for its very liberal intellectual elites (Lenu’s in-laws for instance!). And yes - the poor neighborhoods are much alive with human passions and have everything, but opportunities. Your opinion is very much grounded in our current feminist culture, which can only be applicable to a certain extent. It’s important to understand the culture, history and subsequently the mentality of the place. Even north and south in Italy have a different mindset and attitudes.

[@pinodesanto6302]

I tried to carefully follow the debate on Ferrante with the help of the Italian subtitles and from what I understood I would like to clarify some things. Speaking of dialect: it is true that Ferrante uses it in a way that seems threatening, but it becomes so in a certain context which, according to the author herself, serves to better understand the evolution of the episodes and to better understand those who lived first hand the authenticity and feeling you really get. The Neapolitan dialect is anything but violent. The poems and songs in Neapolitan are among the best known and most famous in the world. As regards politics: The problem of the South has always been present since the post-war period but I would say especially after the unification of Italy (1861). A South plundered of its resources to favor small states like Piedmont and Lombardy in full bankruptcy. This happened thanks to the influence of France and England, then imperialist powers of the time, who saw the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies with its primates as their antagonist in that part of the Mediterranean world. A unitary Italian state would have reduced the threat. After the war there was the famous American Marshall plan to get Italy back on its feet economically after the tragedy of the Second World War. Most of the resources went to northern Italy, leaving only crumbs in the south and its fate of poverty and abuse. Lila and Lenù want to be free and change this world...Lenù by educating herself and emigrating and become a successful writer and Lila with her tenacity tries to change the reality of the "Rione"

[@marianamerinoxavier]

beautiful talk

[@HammSamwich]

has the host read the books...

[@HammSamwich]

...i don't think she's read that essay by zadie smith either

[@OscarWrightZenTANGO]

I have the sense that these ladies too much see Ferrante's writing from the prism of American culture and values. These egregious societal divisions which exist in America are not present in Italy and especially not in Naples. It's kind of uncomfortable to see Ferrante and Italy and Naples categorized in such a manner. Italy and even more so Naples is completely and totally differentt than the US. To be more precise, there is something which strongly binds all Italians no matter what their societal level may be. Again, even more so in Naples. It would help to keep in mind that these are people and societies which have existed for at least 3000 years. I have lived in Italy for 21 years, speak the language well, study it, write poetry in it. I frequently go visit one Neopolitan friend who are like deep root Neopolitans who speak the Neopolitan language in their home and with close friends.

[@antonellaromaniswright9236]

Born in Calabria , i relate totally with the way these two girls grew up , if you don. t really know that culture you cannot understand the book

[@gustavodeugarte9460]

Your point of view is respected...but from a woman's heart...and the way we feel universally....no matter where on earth you live are different from our male friends point of view ...social class exist everywhere

[@flowerswithpowers]

@@antonellaromaniswright9236you can understand the heart, the emotions as some parts of humanity is universal

[@karlpopper3246]

Agree in many instances I noticed the same. I also found some comments in this debate quite ridiculous, like the “translated up”, or the fact Americans understood or appreciated the novel better than Italians, both impossible. Certainly the translation was good and some themes are universal, but let us not exaggerate. Need to know the original language and also understand the culture in Italy and Naples to grasp the novel fully both for style and content.

[@Sanchalikaa_]

i think the idea behind who the brilliant friend is, is that they both see each other as the brilliant one. they both believe the other one is the best of all. because everything is from elena's pov it seems like lila is the brilliant one (which she is,no doubt) but it doesnt mean that elena is not. It's just that how sometimes your brilliance is rooted in your awareness of its lack. also sometimes elena and lila feel like the same person. two sides of the same shiny brilliant beautiful coin.

[@00pisani49]

Someone in this video said dialect is the language of poverty. Often this is not the case! It's the language used to denote closeness, similarity, informality and exclusivity in the way that it can show to some you are in our group and to the others...you are outside our group.

[@GuyCruls]

First of all, this talk is not about La Frantumaglia; it is essentially about the Neapolitan Novels, and so little of Ferrante's other work is mentioned that only the quadrilogy can be mentioned as the subject of this talk. Secondly, women are so much more kind to one another than men are - then again, the panel format discussing a book with an audience of Ferrante fans, and one that involves the translator, probably forbids being harsh to anyone, whether on the panel or the audience. Having said that, Judith Thurman and Ann Goldstein are pretty much the only persons with their head properly screwed on their shoulders. The host is out of her depth, badly, and most members of the audience ask perfectly idiotic questions. Roxana Robinson keeps banging on about Lila having been bullied and battered into remaining stuck in Naples and dominated by abusive men. She utterly misses the fact that Lila has zero fear of death and couldn't care less what a Pasquale or a Michele could do to her: she is exploring life, making her own way. Period. Naples of the 1950s was a culture and that was pretty much it. And indeed, Lila was on a mission to clean up the 'rione'. Maybe people should be made to write an essay to apply to attend such events, which would weed out the neurotics and cretins from the discussion. Would-be hosts should sit the test as well... I do feel sorry for both Judith Thurman and Ann Goldstein for having had to put up with this. Then again, these are two seasoned, wise ladies, with clearly bags of compassion, and no doubt they are used to people's limitations and play along gracefully.

[@flowerswithpowers]

I completely agree with your assessment of the host and the audience. The host was a more atrocious violation in my view, she really fumbled and squandered the potential for this panel.

[@PessoaSimone]

Good Morning! Does anyone know if this conversation is translated into Portuguese?

[@mielledowney2379]

It is so painful to see these educated women try to understand abject poverty without being have lived in it. The story showcased two women from the same economical backgrounds who where totally different but became close friends. One was allowed to have an education and the other was gifted.Lila went to the dons house for her doll not out of courage but because the don family and her knew his son was gay nothing more. Lila was intuitive and highly gifted and if given the opportunity to go to school she would have over shadowed Elena. Lila was mentally stronger than the men who beat her and showcased her mental capacity. Yes she used people and acted like hidden hand but only because she knew how to move people like chess pieces. Elena was self serving throughout the whole book while Lila took chances and looked out for her friends and family. Elena needed Lila to act as her guide to understanding why people made certain decisions and was a very weak person. Lila knew Elena wanted to use her for her knowldge and she used her as a result. Messy people both Elena and Lila and made for an interesting read.

[@luisaritosa9700]

Lila was abused much more and that shape her too.

[@NDMeow93]

This is an old comment but I agree with you so so much. If you get this reply, please let me know what other books you recommend!

[@PessoaSimone]

Maybe there is a transcript of the English speech?

[@teee1111]

Terrible host 🙄

[@flowerswithpowers]

Really bad and took away from the potential discussion these panelists could have had. Why she stammered on about being “better” was so not it.

[@SecretAgentPiglet]

It's so hilarious listening these women saying in 2016 that it would be impossible that Elena Ferrante would be a man hahahah In 2021 we know that's 90% chances it actually is a man :DD

[@flowerswithpowers]

Well composite man, right? Isn’t the predominant theory that it’s a man and his wife co-authoring the books?

[@hdholl9696]

Look at this female panel, enraptured like teenagers: Ferrante is 'chick lit' all over.