ELM USA Eco Pro 2 vs Venmill Hybrid 2.0 - Quick Demo and Pros and Cons

[@nelsondarling3708]

Great video. Probably one of the best disc repair comparison videos on KZbin. I currently have an Eco Pro 2 which broke after a little over a year of heavy use and an Eco Smart which is an absolute workhorse. The Eco Pro 2 arm broke which opens the machine and after I didn’t use it for 4 or 5 days and the lines both got blocked. I spoke to Mike Rozner at Elm USA while the Eco Pro 2 was still working and since that would just take forever to get out medium or especially heavy scratches and also bought the Eco Smart. He told me that the performance of the Eco Smart and the Eco Auto Smart was the same and that the Auto Smart just changed the pads by itself and was automated. I told him that I was looking for a machine that left the best finish and didn’t show any swirl or finishing marks. He said that in his opinion the old Eco Senior with the LCD screen was the best for that and if I could find a used one in good shape to grab it. So the Eco Smart gets you 98%+ of the way there and you can only sometimes see finishing marks on games in bright light or at an angle except PS1 where it’s more noticeable with the black back. I’m looking for a machine to do the finishing work and make the games look like they were never resurfaced and eliminate the hand polishing at the end to make them look perfect since the Eco Smart does almost all of the work. I’m also looking for a machine that will fix Blu Ray games faster and more effectively. Since you have all of these, between the Eco Auto Smart, Eco Senior, Eco Pro 2, and Venmill Hybrid 2.0, what machine does the best finishing work and leaves the least or no swirl or finishing marks on CD and DVD based games and especially PS1? So with the CD and DVD based games I'm just looking for something to get rid of the slight finishing marks left by the Eco Smart. Also, what one does the best with Blu Ray repair?

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@nelsondarling3708 venmill for ps1 games does a pretty good finish when I had the machine, however if you did another clean polish level 1 on the eco smart/autosmart after the initial repair cycle it can help get rid of most of the finish marks. Ideally eco master is the best for bluray but they start at $5000.

[@nelsondarling3708]

@@jccigarsandvape Awesome. Thanks. I might just pick up the Venmill for the final finish then. I would love to get the Eco Master but I don't currently have the room for that. That's a big machine. I did buy about 20 loose PS2 games from someone on eBay that said they were resurfaced with the Eco Master and one thing I noticed with that was that you could tell which ones were resurfaced first. There were 2 or 3 that looked perfect with no finishing marks at all and it seemed to progressively get more finishing marks as it went along. I figured the sanding residue was probably left on the sanding pads and the compound probable built up on the polishing pad as it resurfaced more discs. I spray off the sanding pads on my Eco Smart after each use to cut down on that. The polishing pad seems to work best clean and dry. I thing you're right though. If you ran only a few discs at a time through the Eco Master and cleaned the pads they'd probably all look pretty perfect.

[@jccigarsandvape]

@ oh ok. Before buying a venmill I’d say try doing another clean polish level 1 on each disc on your eco smart after doing the initial repair. See how that works before buying the venmill

[@nelsondarling3708]

@@jccigarsandvape Yeah. I've tried that. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It all seems to depend on the type of disc being repaired and how many times the polishing pad has been used and how much compound is built up on it. I know I'm being really picky about the discs looking perfect but I like my customers to be happy. So there's like this sweet spot with the polishing pads that works the best at least for me in the Eco Smart. It's after 5 or 10 polishings but well before you reach the Elm USA recommended 250 limit. And like I said, I seem to get the best results with clean and dry pads. So if it's working great and giving great results with discs but sits overnight and you try to polish another disc the next day I'll see a lot more marks on the disc from the dried compound on the pad. And when you get maybe over 150 or 175 polishings they'll still look good you'll see the marks more as you go along and it won't polish out the sanding marks as well. I'm just looking for something to speed along the process and get rid of any finishing marks. I wouldn't say there's anything bad about the Eco Smart at all. It really powers through the deepest of scratches and never heats up and ruins discs. The JFJ can be really bad about that and even the Eco Pro 2 that I had would heat up some on longer cycles and I had a few discs not run after getting hot but never with the Eco Smart. I know each machine has a learning curve and compared to something the the JFJ, the Eco Smart is leaps and bounds better in terms of not having to learn a million tricks to make it work.

[@jccigarsandvape]

@ yah I’m insanely picky too. Usually what I do is run everything on the autosmarts and do a clean polish in the master…. The eco master… they aren’t as big as you think they are there probably as tall as a tall bar stool and as wide as two bar stools.

[@jasonperry3316]

Great videos. I learned about the Eco Pro 2 as I was looking for the competitor to the VMI Hybrid 2. Thanks!

[@pufffdragon]

Let me get this straight. You have to pay to use the machine, even though you paid for the machine and then still have to pay for consumables on top of that? How is this even legal. Are these made by casino companies or something.

[@glowstone9848]

Thinking the same … it’s just useless shit…

[@psyopsmatter6480]

Are these made by small hat people seems real jewy

[@jamesgaines6468]

What makes it worse is Elm only does the keycard on their entry level machine. All of the high end models don’t use it. Why people buy them is beyond me.

[@mikeruffolo5234]

Hi Josh, Great review on both machines!!! One thing I don't think you know, but the Hybrid is actually made in China for Venmill. The old 3500 polisher they no longer make was made in the USA. But you are a very good reviewer!

[@jccigarsandvape]

The president of ELM USA commenting on my review. My life is complete 😂 Once you go to ELM USA for disc repair machines, you never go back. I have all models at home. Eco Pro 2, Smart, AutoSmart and Master!

[@Michael-k6e9i]

With a modified chip is there a compound substitute that is cheaper than buying it from venmill? $27 for one small bottle seems crazy!! Is there something else that can be bought in bulk cheaper?

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@Michael-k6e9i you probably have to do trial and error with other compounds making sure to mix it with water so it can go through the compound lines no problem

[@PartenJoe]

Do you notice with the Eco pro 2 the disc is hot once its done?

[@jccigarsandvape]

Yes that’s normal and perfectly fine

[@tonygodsey1806]

Hi. I don't know if you still watch this post, but I have a couple questions. I bought a used one of these off Ebay and don't seem to get any good results. First, after running it for a minute cycle, the disc is very hot. Secondly have you seen how much of the water and compound come out as it is running? I have cleaned both line out, primed both lines. I took the pads off and put a peice of paper in the part that holds the disc and ran a 30 second run. There was only 2 a small drops of each one. When I primed both lines the water and compound came out good. Thanks for any information.

[@jccigarsandvape]

It’s normal that the disc is warm. And it’s normal for there to be little compound and water coming out. Water can last several keycards in some cases and compound usually lasts about 600 min to the whole keycard.

[@Vinceiplex]

Hi guys, I have an ecopro and it seems to leave swirl marks around the entire disc, not sure if it's the machine or how I'm using it... but I put on some new pads and same thing

[@jccigarsandvape]

Under very strong light you may see that circular swirl pattern, to get rid of then you will need to order the mirror finish pads from the site.

[@davidfischer198]

Order some mirror-finish pads... they do exactly what their name implies! My discs look like brand new!

[@MrJDNJ]

This is great, but did the discs play and function before they were cleaned, and did they play and function after they were cleaned? Isn't that the whole point of buying these machines?

[@jccigarsandvape]

Those discs were not working prior to the machines. They did play after. People also might be picky on condition so sometimes a quick cycle can take off quick scuffs and marks

[@IsaiasPerez2023]

what is your suggestion as to the best machine to buy for commercial purposes? I am buying 1000s of DVDs and CDs and reselling them on Amazon and eBay. I currently have the JFJ Easy Pro but wanted something I can use that is better and faster. Ultimately what is the best machine for light scratches removal (won't really be buying DVDs with deep scratches)?

[@tragicsz]

If you are looking for a machine that will repair cd's in bulk, ELM USA's EcoMaster will repair 50 disc's at a time. If you are interested, call them and ask for Chris, he will help you out!

[@jccigarsandvape]

EcoMaster for Volume. You could use Eco Pro for quick light scratches but you can do that with an Eco AutoSmart too.

[@Adam-ru3fi]

Hi Is this good for repairs or just buffing the problem is the jfj has the sanding feature can the eco pro 2 resurface?

[@jccigarsandvape]

The eco pro 2 can, but it could use more minutes

[@Adam-ru3fi]

@@jccigarsandvape for deeper scratched discs could you sand in the jfj then put it in the eco?

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@Adam-ru3fi yes

[@davidfischer198]

I used to run 4 JFJ machines (for 5 years). I sold all 4 and purchased 3 ECOPRO2 (refurbished). I hav used these for 2 years and these machines run rings around the JFJ, AND, there is no messy polish left on the disks. I have cleaned 99.9% of all scratched disks and there is no need for a sand paper function (I clean 300 to 600 three times a week)

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@davidfischer198 yah the JFJ is a great entry level and if you’re doing not too many discs but the eco machines are great for when you have a lot of discs.

[@Adam-ru3fi]

Which machine of the two is better for non working scratched GameCube games?

[@davidfischer198]

The Eco-Pro2 has an adapter available for Gamecube discs. I have one and it does a great job... I have saved many Gamecube disks!

[@theomuraca7395]

hi Josh great video are you going to demonstrate the blue ray for the auto smart as I am a cd and movie collector and have been interested in elm USA for a bit.

[@jccigarsandvape]

For the autosmart it’s simple if u have the touch screen press BD and follow the steps. If you have the button models make sure the door is open hold the red button till it says BD instead of CD then switch the yellow pad holder with the purple one with purple pad and can choose from stage 1-4. Blurays are very hit and miss as a deep enough scratch would be permanent damage

[@theomuraca7395]

@@jccigarsandvape Ok thank you for the help.

[@morecowbell235]

Thank you for the video. If they fit and are the same size pads, perhaps use the Venmill Hybrid's pads on the Eco Pro 2? That way you have no swirl, don't need the mirror pads and don't have to worry so much about the cleanup / mess of the Hybrid

[@jccigarsandvape]

the left and right pad of the venmill are different sizes. I tried that actually and it would not attach to the velcros properly of the eco pro let alone the size.

[@morecowbell235]

@@jccigarsandvape Ah, gotcha. Not surprised you gave it a shot you seem quite thorough.

[@NiceGuyJK]

Thanks for the video. I am looking for a cleaner for personal use. I have a question: the ECO 2 has the mirror finish pads for a high buff finish but does the Hybrid do a buff/mirror finish, too (or have pads for that)? Thanks.

[@jccigarsandvape]

VMI hybrid is only one set of pads. If you’re doing a lot of discs the eco pro 2 is easier and low maintenance

[@krudy29]

Quicksand is discontinued and really hard to find but if anyone is selling one please let me know.

[@fallvec1423]

I checked and found out that the hybrid is more expensive than the eco pro 2, Why?.

[@jccigarsandvape]

Not sure that’s why I think the eco pro 2 is a better value

[@retrogameg4721]

I’m getting micro scratches that are going all the way around the disk. Do you have the same problem? Is it the water I’m using? I’m using the eco pro 2.

[@jccigarsandvape]

Micro scratches ? Like circular swirls? Or is it spotty looking? I’d recommend using distilled water as well as run the compound, make sure the compound is dropping from both points at the same time in sync. If it’s circular swirls like what I show here that’s normal you’ll need mirror finish to get rid of most of them

[@retrogameg4721]

@@jccigarsandvape Thank you for your video seriously. After your message I actually watched the whole thing. I didn’t even know about mirror pads. I called and I was like why are these not included! Hahaha I was nice though. I’m excited to get them in the mail tomorrow.

[@TheEvilPenguinGamer]

When I had the hybrid years ago, the finish would get really bad after around 20-30mins. I think it was caused by the edge of the pad separating slightly and dragging the polish buildup back over the disc. I can see on your pads here there is little notches cut out on the edge of them so its possible they addressed this. Still it does have its issues mainly how poor it is at removing scratches at the edge of discs. I recall trying for 8min to clear up a disc that had alot of marks on the edges and felt it was doing nothing but only took 1min in another machine and everything was gone. Think its a design flaw with both these machines as they drop the polish at the middle of the discs. Obviously its going to be more effective near the middle than the edges.

[@jccigarsandvape]

Lol I was waiting for you to comment, was wondering where you’ve been. Yah I’ve hacked the chip of the hybrid so it doesn’t require any replacing, the pad is starting to peel now lol, I only use the hybrid on cheap shit and finish it with a stage 1 on the AutoSmart. I’ve tried using the disc go devil and man idk how many discs you do but a store that used to use them had multiple devils that they bought out for cheap when RTI went under but motors kept blowing up non stop and sometimes kept leaving a massive white ring on the center of the disc that could not be wiped off. That thing is a messy clusterfuck but yah the only good thing is no consumable limits. They switched to a eco smart lol. I can’t fiddle around with wiping, applying polish or cleaning the inside of machines like the JFJ or hybrid here, that’s why eco pro 2/AutoSmart combo is the best for me... time is money and with the amount of discs I do it’s needed.... now trying to look for an eco master when the border reopens so I don’t get killed on the shipping and customs charges 🤣

[@TheEvilPenguinGamer]

@@jccigarsandvape I dont repair as much now as I used to but yeah disc go devil is messy. Most issues though are user error like using a wore out disc clamp or bearings which increases stress on the motor. They last a long time if taken care of properly. At least here in Europe there are places that sell third party parts, you can service the machine for very cheap and get third party supplies which makes repairs very cheap. No issues with removing scratches on edges of disc either. I wanted to keep the hybrid but If you're gonna advertise a $1500+ machine as discs coming out clean and ready to use... and 500min of high quality repairs per pack, it better damn do it. If the machine was cheaper and the pads didn't fall apart when taking them off the velcro it would be a perfect machine for finishing.. but its just not great as a standalone.

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@TheEvilPenguinGamer yup. Luckily I was able to get this hybrid in a bundle deal... bought a eco senior (touch screen AutoSmart) to resell to a friend and the seller promo offered me this hybrid that you see in the video for $650 US... so LOL I ain’t gonna complain. I’ll just tinker and fool around with the hybrid since the chip is hacked now, wish I could find a way to hack the eco pro 2 chip.... lol What pisses me off is that when you buy the supplies here in North America you can’t just buy the pads, it’s only “combo” pack with everything

[@Nathan-fk5xk]

Josh, if money wasn't the first concern, and you're trying to clean about 600 discs a month but you want them to look like they've never been touched. What would you recommend?

[@waynec9017]

I live in Toronto a guy I know bought the eco pro 2 6 months ago for $1599 US But closed down his disc selling business and sold me he unit for $500 CAN I love it its an amazing machine

[@jccigarsandvape]

WHAT A STEAL. LOL $500 Canadian. You sir got the steal of the year. I’m from Vancouver.... I was able to get it direct from manufacturer used for $1095 US

[@waynec9017]

@@jccigarsandvape a fellow Canadian I'd love to get the other unit you have it seems to do an amazing job. I got 6 in total elm eco pro 2 azuradisc duel disc 2 (modded) disc go devil jfj easypro And 2 azuradisc 1600's

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@waynec9017 wow quite the collection lol.... u should look into getting the eco smart and/or AutoSmart

[@waynec9017]

@@jccigarsandvape I'd love too I'll keep my eyes open for one

[@electrohobo9904]

There was a brief time that RTI had refurbished Eco Pro’s for $500 before they went out of business. I got a couple way back then…

[@davidl2364]

Hi Josh Thank you for showing a comparison between two different brands. Can you tell me how they’re working for game cube games?

[@jccigarsandvape]

You’d need an adapter which can be purchased from each of their sites…

[@davidfischer198]

With the adapter, I have saved many Gamecube games!

[@Kuka_Brat]

Мынау аппараттарды қайдан, қалай алуға болады?

[@jccigarsandvape]

Сізге онлайн тапсырыс беру керек, пайдаланылған машиналар үшін eBay тізімін тексеріңіз. You will have to order online, check eBay listings for used machines.

[@TheRealMathewcane]

Hi Josh :) Great video! I have been looking to upgrade from my JFJ Easy pro, and your video may have me on a path for the Eco Pro 2. For how long do you need to run the machine when using the Mirror Polishing Pads? Thanks in advance :)

[@jccigarsandvape]

About 30 secs to a min

[@TheRealMathewcane]

@@jccigarsandvape Thank you for you fast reply :)

[@waynec9017]

Hi Josh where did you find your eco smart

[@jccigarsandvape]

If you’re talking about the AutoSmart, ELM USA will have them refurbished for around $3500 US, eBay also has them around the $2500-3000 If you’re talking the actual eco smart (semiautomatic/basically you switch the pad holders every stage) ELM has them for about $2K.

[@waynec9017]

@@jccigarsandvape thanks I meant the autosmart it's quite the unit

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@waynec9017 it is one of the easiest to use high end units to use.

[@waynec9017]

Judging from what I saw you can save almost any disc

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@waynec9017 oh yah I’ve yet to have a disc that failed in the AutoSmart with the exception of a few that had top layer damage which is pretty much not fixable.

[@Illmatic662]

Just bought the EcoPro2, the JFJ was getting the job done but I luckily was able to get my hands on some really rare PS1 games and that machine wasn't going to cut it, especially when collectors are concerned. I appreciate the video.

[@TheEvilPenguinGamer]

It is totally possible to get a better finish on the JFJ than any other machine I've used... to the point there is 0 buffing marks visible even on ps1 discs. Its just takes a mixture of luck and skill, to 'break in' a blue pad properly so that is leaves a perfect finish. I had one blue pad I'd put every disc through on 10sec after their normal repair to give a flawless finish. I couldn't figure out exactly how that happened just trial and error, I think its something to do with how the pad breaks away during the buffing, thats what leaves the swirls on the blue. Once you get one broken in properly it will have a hard outer layer of blue polish on it so the pad isn't wearing down, you are buffing it with the dried blue polish layer only

[@Illmatic662]

@@TheEvilPenguinGamer My issue with the JFJ was two things: A) those swirl marks that come on the edge of the disc, this is common and was mentioned by many people, apparently the fix was to soak or dampen the pad when you use it, apparently that helped with the swirl marks. B) I hated how messy it was. Not a big deal to some people I guess, but I thought it was a pain having to wipe the disc down and making sure you wipe it just right. I noticed that sometimes if you wiped the disc too much it actually caused the disc to get scratched again. This is using a microfiber cloth. With this machine, you put it in and forget everything. It's not 100% perfect but you'll easily make that money back if you do enough discs. I do exclusively games, and with the finish this thing does I'm able to sell the games for the max amount and not have to worry about buyers complaining about the condition.

[@TheEvilPenguinGamer]

@@Illmatic662 Most people who use disc repair machines dont have a clue what they are doing. Trust me I'm a collector with OCD about disc condition, I hate even the tiniest flaw or sign of swirls. JFJ can give a perfect finish but it takes alot of fine tuning and experience. I never dampened anything or scratched a disc after repair. When repairs are fine tuned enough they come out with almost no polish, except very fine residue on 1/3 of the disc which can be swiped off with palm of hand or a cd spray + cloth. When people say swirl marks they maybe either talking about the 'normal swirls' from an average repair, or swirls left from not using the sandpaper properly which wont come off with the white or blue pads. It is very important to keep the sanding pads clean of sanding residue and wipe the sanding dust off the disc between coarse and soft, and do not do sanding cycles more than 20sec. If you have to, do multiple 20sec with cleaning between. Its alot of effort but the finish can be flawless for someone who doesn't want to splash out on an expensive machine. Eco Pro is definitely a good machine but 2 things I dont like about it, dont have personal experience with the machine but can tell from the design and info from others 1. It wont be effective at removing scratches near the outer edge. This is because like the Vmi hybrid it drops a small amount of polish near the middle of the disc so the outer edge is getting less polishing than the rest. 2. It can leave some residue stuck in the clear middle of the disc, as it lacks a disc clamp. This same thing happens but in a much worse way on Azuradisc machines so since that horrible experience of seeing discs filled up with polish, I don't get why any machine should leave out a disc clamp!

[@stuartbell1146]

@@Illmatic662 I used to spray the pad with lots of water as it would lengthen the pad life enormously. That was until the electricity in the house kept shorting due to most likely damp which I assumed was the power in various places out in the garden...but after realising that using the disc cleaner more or less perfectly correlated with the power tripping, it turned out to be the water seeping through into the motor on the JFJ!

[@Ahov29]

@@TheEvilPenguinGamer 1. and 2. - which machine do the proper work then? O_o.. I dont know which machine buy

[@leviblanchard8256]

I dont get why this long after disks are widely irrelevant do these machines have to be so expensive?!

[@jccigarsandvape]

"Old" media is making a "comeback", look at vinyl for example. I mean also with discs now starting to either rot on the inside or being scratched after in some cases decades of use the people who still use and collect them need these machines so there is still a demand, especially for video game discs.

[@TucBroder]

You don't use both mirror pads. You're supposed to use ONE mirror pad combined with ONE regular pad.

[@jccigarsandvape]

That’s not what the guys at elm says, don’t know where you got that info.

[@TucBroder]

@@jccigarsandvape It says so on the european site that sells it. The company that sells the machine in Europe is called Sundsound, and it's under the description with the mirror pad. "Use 1 normal polishingpad + 1 Mirror Finish polishingpad for your EcoPro2 machine to achieve the best result".

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@TucBroder that’s not the official site. TDR (total disc repair) formerly ELM Europe is the official European distributor. However if it works for sundsound I guess it doesn’t hurt to do so. Save the minutes on the keycard by having one of each on at the same time. Smart. But otherwise ELM wouldn’t be selling pads in pairs.

[@TucBroder]

@@jccigarsandvape The thing is, they don't sell them in pairs. at least not Sundsound nor TDR.

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@TucBroder weird. Elm USA and North America have always came in pairs.

[@Kunddizzle22]

The hybrid 2.0 is like 35% more expensive i Europe. At least. Just ordered the eco pro 2 🥳

[@jccigarsandvape]

Really? In the US brand new they are about the same. And yah eco pro 2 would be my go to.

[@David_Austin]

You can get a modded key card for the VMI Hybrid 2 that has Unlimited minutes on it I have one :)

[@jccigarsandvape]

I know if u look closely... the chip is tweaked... 😆 required some soldering skills.

[@David_Austin]

@@jccigarsandvape I wish you could get a modded card for the Eco Pro 2 as well but don't think you can?

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@David_Austin nope :( been looking everywhere

[@geoffreysreviews3322]

Where could i buy one

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@geoffreysreviews3322 unlimited chip? If you’re in the UK, there’s one available on eBay.

[@Jayalmighty81]

How much its the ecoautosmart?

[@jccigarsandvape]

Brand new $6000 USD, used around $2500 USD

[@WilliamSchlott]

So you pay $1500 for the machine then you have to buy time to use on your own machine? Who owns the machine you, the guy who paid $1500 or the company that has you by the balls? What happens if the company goes under?

[@jccigarsandvape]

Yah I know it’s a bit of a “questionable practice”. I’m Not worried about ELM going under as I believe they would find a way to easily tweak that if that was the case or someone would buy the assets if they did. They originally launched the machine without minutes but people were literally trying to get their moneys worth and would overwork the machine to the point of damage. So that’s why they introduce the key card system

[@WilliamSchlott]

@@jccigarsandvape If its "your" machine you should be able to do as you wish with it. If they are concerned about people abusing the warranty they should adjust the warranty not force you to buy minutes, that's absurd. Not fussing at you, I appreciate your video but, seriously, is there a good machine that you can actually own and not pay for time to use it?

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@WilliamSchlott I agree but that’s just the nature of the game. Other machines in this price range with the same tech have a paywall unfortunately. Either key cards or proprietary supplies like “special pads” only by the manufacturer

[@jccigarsandvape]

@@WilliamSchlott if you want a good machine that doesn’t use a key card. I could reccomend the eco smart or AutoSmart… used machines start at about $2500 for the smart or $3500 for the automatic Although I usually can find them on eBay for $1000 less for each machine.

[@WilliamSchlott]

@@jccigarsandvape Thank you I think I'm in the wrong business, lol.

[@MrSnowman2110]

lol from the thumbnail i thought it was a modded gamecube.