Elon Musk fails Cybertruck stainless steel metallurgy test | Auto Expert John Cadogan

[@ozspencers]

I was told, as a young man, that everything would get harder when I reached my 60s. They lied.

[@MalHanson]

Yeah, youth is wasted on the young.

[@SteveEddy-od7fb]

Ha Ha Ha 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@warrenjohnknight.9831]

EXACTLY. 😢

[@pragmatist165]

😅😅😅😅😅

[@gbsailing9436]

I don't know....try reaching you toes with your hands while keeping your legs straight...🤣

[@BRATWURST1]

Just a correction regarding the history of stainless steel.The first stainless steel was a 13 chrome type which appeared in 1910.The 300 austenitic stainless steels appeared in 1924,produced by the same company,Firth Vickers/Firth Brown here in Sheffield UK.

[@devjon123]

Home of Hendersons Relish 👍

[@cedley1969]

Home of my ancestors! Well, according to the my heritage DNA test, 97.4 percent northern England centered on Sheffield and 2.4 percent Finnish. Which makes sense given all of my family is from Sheffield although I live far away in Nottingham now.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

Good old Sheffield steel 👍

[@liamrobertson7265]

@@cedley1969 damn vikings eh!

[@liamrobertson7265]

home of dave wilks! where are you dave?

[@maxtracker2904]

“Cyber wanking chariot” should have been the brand name! Missed opportunity there… 😂

[@mattyh2180]

The brown tea staining from chloride induced pitting corrosion will be hilarious too.

[@michaelzerk]

Recent reports support this!

[@mattyh2180]

@@michaelzerk will be hilarious in regions where de-icing salts are applied to roads.

[@zirconia3]

"but-but-but-- It's *Stainless!* Elon said so!"

[@mattyh2180]

@zirconia3 lol yeah. Stainless still corrodes much to people's surprise including electric jeebus.

[@BillClinton228]

I want more people to buy it so I can identify mentally ill people on the road and stay far away from them. Forget about the technicalities, this is the ugliest car I've ever seen.

[@sjion]

At the end of the 1936 ford's production run, they made a few (6?) Stainless steel cars. They were special order for a Stainless steel company for their most successful salesman. My understanding is that ford didn't want to ruin the dies & waited until they had finished production before making the ss cars. So, you're right John, even back then they could do it with standard tooling & they were curvy as can be.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

True, in fact several models were eventually produced in stainless steel, the 36 Deluxe Sedan, 1960 Thunderbird and a mid 60's Lincoln with suicide doors. The body panels were an exact match of the standard sheet metal with complex curves and contours unlike the slab sided CyberFlop.

[@my3boysonly]

As an old man proper educated mechanical engineer, I appreciate your videos. Good job, John.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Thank you, sincerely.

[@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971]

As an aircraft maintenance engineer...i hear a lot of complaints, but no solutions. He does have a lot of views, and add revenue tough.

[@RealButcher]

As a retired dentist, we also had a lot of metallurgical stuff in those days. We had to pour our golden crowns ourselves and were making fillings with amalgam. . I ❤ JC with his good talks.

[@richardprice5978]

@@AutoExpertJC actually ford and us-steel tried SS steel for Lincoln and mustang body lines and in their 1900-80's~ case it did eat the tooling/die's ( sorry i don't have the internet or historical links to make it easier for you and others to see it, and ford engineers even Austrian one's at that probably are awareness of that expensive experiment ) and that was in the first 5-100 bodies off the line vs normally 50k+car's, so elon might actually be correct but also means he hasn't solved the 1960's era process/problem's with using it as ford was hoping to delete the body-shop/paint-lines ect and offer dealership's raping services/up-charges for changing colours ect rusty wise it doesn't do any good to use higher yielding steel if by the time it gets wrecked-usa 🇺🇸 winter ( antidotal evidence is after 5-9 years old and at least 50k miles on the odometer ) or at least local to me currently with swiss cheesed instead of presten condition as oem-designed/tested, so maybe and a big maybe with 308ss is the chance for less Swiss cheesing in hard to fix/knowledge ( yes my local office/government does yearly checks but that doesn't equate to catching all failure's or EPA-violation's ect ) location's in the body/frame ect, with maybe a higher chance for less injuries ect

[@tbecker403]

⁠@@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971Why would it be John’s responsibility to offer solutions, he’s a critic, not the world’s foremost expert on manufacturing?

[@jb6668]

There's something a bit wrong when you outlay $100k for a truck and then need to have it wrapped to make it somewhat less ridiculous looking.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

And buy a $1200 spare wheel and a $15000 battery so you're not recharging it every ten minutes.

[@jb6668]

@@davidbrayshaw3529 Issues that for the most part are getting glossed over in nearly every review I ve seen of it. Making it hard to take anything Cybertruck I see online seriously.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@jb6668 Well, we live in an age where there are how many genders? And Zoloft is the new Aspirin. What do you expect?

[@HablaCarnage63]

@@23chngepotentially yes. But it will also limit the addressable market to wankers who have no real use for it and just have money to burn. The existing OEMs are also doing their best to make unaffordable vehicles as well. So it’s a bit of a wash.

[@siraff4461]

@@jb6668 Thats because all the "journalists" who have hold of it so far are seeing it on Elons terms. Its been the same with every new Tesla - you get a few months of paid corporate drivel dressed up as "reviews" then slowly customers get hold of them and the reality starts to come out.

[@aceroadholder2185]

Every machinist and fabricator will tell you that if you can use something besides stainless steel, please do.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Totally, duuude.

[@verosso2788]

I'm a fitter and machinist and I love working with SS, the final products if done correctly are beautiful. It's not hard but is tough and certainly can very quickly work harden like a mofo, that's where skills and knowledge comes in. Every material on the planet has it's own characteristics and you either work within it's parameters or you fail, sometimes catastrophically!

[@sindbad8411]

Exactly. Many will tell you, it doesn't corrode as easily as regular steel but it nevertheless can. Basically it's tough and tenacious but not strong. Standard HSS drill bits and shaper bits will pretty much become dull immediately. It needs tools containing 5% Kobalt. It gets very hot, not just warm when drilling. Standard SS WILL corrode in salty or polluted air, upon contact with zinc coated steel in open weather. And, you can't run a metal shop processing SS and regular steel on the same machines. Both section or departments of the production must be separated carefully. If you want to assure it's non corrosive you got to chose the more expensive type DIN 1.4401 / EN X5CrNiMo17-12-2 which contains 2% Moly

[@aceroadholder2185]

@@verosso2788Yes, in a pro setting you can do ok with stainless steel. You have machines with the horsepower, rigidity, flood cooling and correct cutting tools to stay ahead of the work hardening. Most home workshops lack all of this. If you need stainless steel and it's properties allow its use, 415/416 free machining stainless works a treat. Not cheap material, but you probably aren't going to be buying 20 ft. lengths. Cheers from NC/USA a.k.a. 'Merica.

[@HuFlungDung2]

​@@verosso2788My experience with machining 304/316 SS is that what actually happens when a drilling operation suddenly goes wrong, the tool material actually friction welds a little layer of the tool onto the bottom of the hole. This accounts for the very hard skin, but it is technically not the base material that got hard. If it were possible to make SS undrillable with HSS tools by hot/cold working it, I'm sure there would be applications for this property to be purposely induced, and there simply is no such property. Stainless has about half the rate of thermal conductivity as carbon steel, so the concentration of heat at the tool point is a real phenomenon. I have witnessed a failing drill tip glowing red hot beneath a flood of coolant.

[@dingbatt]

Perhaps the material was chosen so the vehicle can be used in “Back to the Future” parts IV, V and VI? Thank you John for a reminder of my metallurgy lectures from way back last century. I imagine the Cybertruk will sell to the “look at me” crowd in America, where money and practicality are irrelevant. So anyone that was hoping for a truly useful and affordable EV “pickup truck” will be seriously considering cancelling their order.

[@TrishaMitchell101]

The names you gave was hilarious. Calling the Truck (Cyber Urinal) Calling Elon Musk (Space Karen)

[@mikethespike7579]

I worked 30 years in car engineering, so I reckon I know something here. It's true that the press itself is in no danger of being damaged. But the forms for pressing sheet steel will wear faster with stainless and those don't come cheap. On top of that, as far as I'm informed, the sheet steel of the body of the Cybertruck is well over 1 millimetre thick, that's easily well over twice that of a normal car.

[@tripzero0]

CNBC just did a video on why the CT is hard to manufacture. I believe they had an expert say the same thing.

[@markplott4820]

most Unibody are made w/ sandwich of Mild, Mid grade and High strength Steel. its all thin , has to be , in order to be Stamped.

[@johannesschaller5510]

Typical car body steels are between 0.6 and 2.5 mm thick. At the thinner end, you'll find many of the outer panels and the thicker end is reserved for structurals like the shock towers. Lots of the crumple zone parts are in the middle of this range. Much thinner and they won't stretch well enough or will tend to buckle when in draw mode. (Look up stretch and draw in a sheet metal forming guide.) The tooling (punches and dies) can be made hard enough to resist wear under high contact stresses but of course this comes at a cost.

[@marktoomey]

1.8mm

[@medschoolvisual6954]

Research air-bending, this is what they are using

[@Blanc777]

Franz and Lars explained this in the TopGear video. The problem is that because the yield strength is so high with the cold rolled alloy they use (likely 307- with double the carbon content compared with 304 or 316) they have a lot of springback. To compensate for this they have to overbend, but this results in low tool life from the die (what Elon means by “breaking the tool”). Plus they are using air bending, where the tool doesn’t contain the material, but there is high pressure air in between.

[@dk-bw4gk]

That's not at all what air bending is. Google it. You can have a bottom-bending die where the radius matches the punch+material, and you can have air bending where the bottom is "open" and the punch (plus travel and pressure) dictates the radius formed. There's coining too, but that's def not what's happening here. Air bending requires much less force but requires depth to be controlled, and it's much cheaper as you can use a much smaller press.. There is no "high-pressure" at all in air bending. Franz and Lars sound like idiots.

[@axelknutt5065]

I think the choice of material used for the Cybertruck is not so much the strength, hardness, bullet-proofness but its ability to meet the regs for crash-structure / crumple-zones. Stronger isn’t always better.

[@dk-bw4gk]

@@axelknutt5065 Where are the cash reports? Crashes rely more on shape structure and engineering than material. Since this thing was announced, multiple people pointed out how hard edges and box construction wouldn't hold up to safety regs. Fenders and hoods and other body cladding are simply decoration to cover up the underlying structure. Are they sold as off road-only? I'd like ot see the numbers.

[@papalegba6796]

Imagine wasting time discussing the specs of a truck that will never be sold to the general public 😂

[@richb2229]

@@axelknutt5065if that was the only factor then practically any cheaper steel or even aluminum could have been used. This is the same Stainless steel the Starship uses and is only produced for SpaceX and Tesla. And neither 304 or carbon steel mentioned in this video could stop a 9 mm bullet. Normal car door panels are no obstacle for 9 mm penetration despite what you may see on TV or movies.

[@MrRaitzi]

Cybertruck steel failed. Then Musk had to order expensive high quality steel from Finland. Company name is Outokumpu. They have supplied SpaceX before.

[@youteacher78]

Yes, because his space vibrator is also made of stainless and I assume, for the same bullshit reason that he likes shiny things that are called "X". After that he puts a whole room of people to work to reverse engineer a reason for why it has to be stainless, and because he's so insecure he'll fire anybody who dare to criticize him, they come up with the dumbest shit.

[@richb2229]

That’s not completely True. CyberTruck has always used the same SS as the Starship uses. This steels main supplier is in Texas but the Finnish company is secondary supplier for SpaceX and is now the main supplier for Tesla. The Texas supplier is more strategic supplier so it’s steel will go to SpaceX first. I am sure that in the future even more suppliers will be set up to produce this special alloy because of high demand for it.

[@achasilas6535]

Where did you get this information that the steel failed? What's your source? Trust me bro? Tesla uses the material scientist from SpaceX to design the steel. Any steel manufacturer can produce it and supply to Tesla. It's like Apple designs the chips but Chip fabs manufacture it. That doesn't mean that Apple's chips failed and they had to order it from a supplier.

[@cccmmm1234]

@@achasilas6535 " Tesla uses the material scientist from SpaceX to design the steel." I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. Requirements for space are so different to the requirements for a car that I can't see why using SpaceX metallurgists should be seen to be an endorsement.

[@AndrewReadman]

​@@cccmmm1234yeah cos wtf do rocket scientists know right?

[@George-Edwards]

Hello John, George here in Michigan USA. I have not bothered you in a while but I just want to say one thing here. Quite a few years ago I saw a sort of high def line drawing of a modern car shown in a transparent form with all the different steels used shown in different colors. I found it very interesting to be able to see that for example even the corners of the window frames might be a different steel than that used in other areas of the door for example. There were many, many parts of the vehicle made up of many different alloys for safety and strength.

[@cccmmm1234]

Makes sense. Different steels have different attributes. Different parts of a car have different stresses etc too. It makes a lot of sense to use different steels where each is appropriate.

[@shmadmanuts]

@@cccmmm1234even more - remember those aluminium frames for shaving weight and improving stiffness? Years ago there were articles about using high strength, light, multi-sheet (something like making swords, or I may be mistaken) steel used for frames, that would have same stiffness at same weight, but much cheaper and, of course, actually repairable. More on this - those curvy shapes make the body stronger while light, flat sheets flex, a lot - it's not long to when we see Cybertrucks covered with same thing as bed liners (just like those 4x4 prepared for rough environment)

[@cccmmm1234]

I wonder how stainless is going to put up with work hardening due to vibration etc. eg. Drive your "tough truck" over too much dirt road and will it start cracking at high stress points?

[@squirts1]

no, that's absurd. That's not how it works.

[@dereksollows9783]

In the early 1960s Ford Motor Company produced a few stainless steel show models. They were an experiment which, according to the automotive press of the time, were the way of the future. A few years later some of the more critical thinkers in the automotive press researched the cars from a " hey Ford, what happened?" point of view. Apparently there were a number of issues with stress-cracking and so on, but in fact they were successful in pressing/stamping the body panels for a Lincoln Continental and a Ford Thunderbird, complete with all of the compound curves of their non-stainless archetypes. I never did learn which alloy they used but presumed it was specially annealed and re-annealed and possibly progressively formed as well. I very much enjoy your take on things.

[@rjserra5535]

Hi John. I am a retired mechanical engineer and I enjoyed your discussion on Elon Musks comments about Tesla's Cyber Truck. You brought up some good points and made a good case. I would add further that when dealing with the various 300 series stainless steels you can do quite a bit of forming with them if you include annealing steps between forming operations. As you pointed out, you can form stainless until it strain hardens just short of its strain limit. By the use of progressive dies and annealing between forming operations you can create the shapes necessary to form automobile body panels. The major difficulty in this for Tesla is likely the expense of making the forming dies and the manufacturing process time tied up in annealing the material between forming operations. The key to doing this and getting a satisfactory result would be to strain harden the body panels to the required hardness on the last forming operation. This should be repeatable but would be expensive and time consuming. Sets of large forming dies for stainless steel would have to be made from tool steel and would be very expensive. The Cyber Truck's low volume production would never be able to amortize the cost of the dies and annealing furnaces etc. It is likely Mr. Musk knows all of this because it is pretty basic metal forming technology. It would be best to remember that Mr. Must is a huckster and marketeer. He is counting on the ignorance of the general public to not understand how to form stainless steel so he can explain away why the Cyber Truck looks the way it does rather then like a more modern vehicle.

[@JoeC88]

👍👍

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Wasn't the DeLorean a stainless body...? 🤔 😎👍☘️🍺

[@JoeC88]

@@peterfitzpatrick7032 OR was it tirty tree thoosandsofaninch fick aloominum spud wrap 🤔 Mrs Brown will know

[@petesmitt]

@@peterfitzpatrick7032 No; it had a glass fibre body shell with brushed 304 stainless steel panels attached.

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

@@JoeC88 Are you having a stroke , Joe ??... 😂

[@Rockbottomsurf]

I’m still writing this down…306 or 316 stainless steel is on Moh’s hardness scale B which is reserved for Mpa’s which are equal to about 147 psi and if you bend it a lot… oh dear, I should have listened at skool.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Skool's overrated. I didn't learn nothin' at skool.

[@Rockbottomsurf]

@@davidbrayshaw3529I dunno you have nice handwriting.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@Rockbottomsurf Thank you. I dun a remedial course that come free with the accommodation that the magistrate set up for me. I can make things out of leather, too, and I stamp a mean number plate. We should catch up for a pumpkin wine, one day. I make a mean pumpkin wine. A bit of sugar and a bit of baker's yeast in a hollowed out pumpkin, aged for 10 days, you don't know what you're missing. Hopefully the guards don't know either.

[@Rockbottomsurf]

@@davidbrayshaw3529 zat you Spanian?

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@Rockbottomsurf Oh dear, I actually know who you are referring to. That's not good, is it.

[@gazzas123]

My first car was an EK Holden and it had compound curves on all the body panels. The bumper bar was also compound curves and when a "driver" reversed into the pointy part of the bumper bar it ripped the side of his car open and put a small scratch on the bumper. Those large flat surfaces of the cyber urinal will deform in the most gentle bingle and it will be bloody hard to fix.

[@tundramanq]

My issue here is the color. From experience with the frequency of people moving into my lane with me there in a silver/grey truck requiring me to take action, silver is harder to see in a rear view mirror. I bought white trucks after my time with the silver one and the issue went away.

[@SwiftRIBSAust]

Good job John There is a whole industry in the UK fixing the scratched stainless on Deloreans - costs a fortune also Dissimilar metals - cavity corrosion will be a problem if not fully isolated from the model Y subframe and cast aluminum front and rear support assemblies - completely agree these will be scratched up garbage after 5 years if taken off road

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Aluminium and stainless steel. It's not called cavity corrosion, it's called galvanic corrosion. Stainless steel is a naughty boy and has a nasty habit of stealing electrons from aluminium. I can promise you that there wont be many boat builders or aeronautical engineers buying these things.

[@paulf2529]

The bodywork lightly a write off after even very light crash damage.

[@chrisgregory4796]

Yes you wouldnt want to park it in an industrial area where regular carbon steel fabrication is taking place. That bare stainless body wont take kindly to some metal dust contamination and a shower of rain.

[@avgjoe5969]

Delorians and Cybertruck are only similar in appearance. Delorians - Mild Stainless steel , approx 1mm thick Cybertruck - Cold Rolled Stainless steel about 2x as hard, approx 3mm thick. The shallow scratches you might manage would buff out with scotchbrite (vs cost of repainting) Cybertruck alloy developed for a large orbital rocket that was designed for multiple re entries without corrosion. If you are referring to void embrittlement through diffusion, I'm sure there are many ways to prevent that.

[@hcox1111]

OK Elon@@avgjoe5969

[@7scientist]

Anyone remember how popular stainless steel appliances were? Only problem--they showed every scratch

[@keithhooper6123]

Also fingermarks, grease, oil, all show.

[@godfreyberry1599]

And every finger mark.

[@jarlnieminen4307]

Wtf did you do with your appliances? You think your plastic ones are hard and don't show the scratches?😂

[@Bennie32831]

So you have never herd of wraps

[@ferventheat]

And rusted.

[@chrissmith2114]

A lot of modern cars use steel with boron content, which hardens during its time in the paint curing ovens - it has BH in the description for bake hardening, and often has a electro-zinc coating of between 50 and 100 microns...

[@cxBuck]

@11:34 "Electric Jesus" 🤣 This guy has a sense of humor on top of his technical expertise. Followed by "Space Karen" @13:58 😅😂🤣 This guy kills me!

[@jjohnson8977]

metallurgical trivia night at the pub DUDE

[@MrTaxiRob]

My experience with stainless commercial door hardware varies wildly, just like with other varieties of steel alloys. Screws that strip and bend, barn door tracks that destroy M42 drill bits, and every level of hardness in between. Sheet metal of that gauge wouldn't offer any appreciable resistance to a press with several tons of pressure on tap.

[@lucadellasciucca967]

You have no experience on Tesla's steel. They invented it

[@MrTaxiRob]

They invented steel? Wow, that's amazing. No wonder the WTC collapsed, turns out the beams were made of something else. Thanks for clearing that up,@@lucadellasciucca967.

[@rhinogooner]

The Cyber Truck looks like it came out of an episode of Thunderbirds from the 60’s. That’s an FAB Scott.

[@russcattell955i]

Inspired by "Ed Straker's" car in the U.F.O. tv series, perhaps ?

[@JoeBLOWFHB]

Nah, it looks more like a frequency are green type of vehicle.

[@ZygonesBzygones]

they had much more of an aesthetic, maybe Captain Scarlett?

[@furryrug5998]

This vehicle is equivalent of jumping out a plane and trying to stitch your parachute together on the way down.

[@FoundationsofPause]

Or the very first car to ditch the ancient 12v and embrace the 48v future. 1000 miles per charge.

[@furryrug5998]

@@FoundationsofPause it’s never getting 1000 range, in fact we were actually promised 500 and we’re not even getting that- closer to 300. This is my biggest gripe with Tesla is over promising and under delivering.(not delivering at all in some cases). This vehicle is being extremely rushed to market with lots of unproven tech.

[@achasilas6535]

​@@furryrug5998rush to market? That's a rediculous idea. This vehicle has been 4 years in development. You may have your disappointments with Tesla but they are at the four front of innovation in the industry. Like Elon or Tesla or not. The facts remains. You can always buy another brand car if Tesla doesn't do it for you. But they keep selling every car they can make for good reason. Infact the Model Y is the best selling SUV of any kind globally. They most be doing something right for people to vote for them with their hard earned cash.

[@FoundationsofPause]

That's charge time, not range. The wire harness is now ready for whatever we throw at it. @@furryrug5998

[@achasilas6535]

@@semilog643 it's one thing to hate but it's another to ignorant in your hate. Design is subjective but I'm willing to bet that more people are like the design than not that's why the truck has 2 million reservations. That's more than any vehicle talk less of a truck in the history of Automobiles. Even Corolla does not have that many reservations. Also the cyber truck beat 80% of trucks it's size on the road today. It's has a payload, 6ft cargo bed, under the rear seat storage something most trucks do not offer, front trunk for extra storage . Something no ICE truck provides. So you are wrong.

[@justicebroker2271]

But Electric Jesus told me in the presentation that Tesla invented the steel. Sandy Munro was frothing over the Cyberflunk. I used to respect his opinion.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Sandy Monroe very discretely acknowledged "a commercial relationship" with Tesla. He has since then said that he is "not employed".

[@Low760]

Hagarty also said it was steel they made themselves

[@aerotube7291]

It's a pretty wild piece of kit if he can get it into production. If that happens he will have really innovated something, eco nomics aside re the whole ev debate

[@bentullett6068]

​@Low760 they give the journalists a script to research from the manufacturer. Jeremy Clarkson went against the script when Musk released the first Tesla roadster on Top Gear and it upset electric Hesus and when he reviewed the Model X he did a running joke whilst reviewing it that he had to have a team of Lawyers with him to prevent him upsetting Elon.

[@markmcculloch2570]

I also used to respect Sandy. He is so far up Elons black hole.

[@AngrySoybean-j]

Off topic. Last night a warehouse in Krefeld ,Germany caught fire ...... with 1200 E-scooters inside. It took 150 fire fighters to prevent it from spreading to the other part of the warehouse with paint and other hazards materials.

[@markplott4820]

Little Johnny - TESLA invents AIR bending of 30xx COLD steel , using Press Break Berring on Curtain of air .

[@MadIIMike]

John is like the George Carlin of car journalism.

[@theIdlecrane]

He is, isn’t he 😅

[@deerfootnz]

​@@theIdlecraneonly without the intellect

[@ryszard68]

​@@deerfootnz- do share with us your credentials in the field of metallurgical engineering, I'm sure they must be extensive and lofty to be able to dismiss others so easily? We'll wait......

[@deerfootnz]

@@ryszard68 I am an engineer. I have an essential grasp of metallurgy, at least with regard to transport applications, and I have alot of experience with stainless steels. Cadogan doesn't get the metallurgy wrong here, but most of the rest of his content is devoid of insight or understanding. He is a curmudgeonly Luddite. I particularly enjoyed his "explanation" of how a turbocharger functions.

[@tadstertrolley7770]

​@@deerfootnzyup, he's a sell out as well if anyone watched his pathetic outlander review. Love how he surrounds himself with hundreds of tools that have never been used.

[@MrkBO8]

It looks like my stove top/oven, made of stainless steel, has lift up doors and knobs too.

[@thamesmud]

With one especially large 'knob" behind the wheel.

[@wolfhunter8608]

“All of the metallurgy is known.” - As a cutlery enthusiast I disagree. There is still new steels being made. Vanax and Magnacut are (relatively) new materials in the world. Shape memory alloys are another. I wish I was smart enough to do a materials science work, it seems like a growing and very interesting field.

[@stefanh616]

Yeah, its sometimes amazing how often old retired engineers can cling on to old knowledge, and very adamantly insist on that everything is already know and no progress can ever again be made in their previous field of expertise.

[@Splexx]

Cutlery enthusiast, interesting! I'm more of a Cutlery admirer but I truly adore chopsticks. Hey, whatever floats your boat! 🍴🥢⛵

[@johannesschaller5510]

The steels you quote are both powder metallurgy steels, aimed at the knife-making market. These proprietary grades might be recent development but powder metallurgy is not new. However, they are a quite separate category of stainless steels to those continuously manufactured strip steels used for large scale manufacturing, which is the subject of JC's video.

[@Maungateitei]

​@@stefanh616Dreamer. As a metalurgist and high performance race an Marine engineer I Absolutely confirm everything he said. I will also add, that going to skinny little wires at 48V powering All the lights, door latches... Everything. Is Going to be an absolute nightmare with the galvanic corrosion induced by that Friggen stupid silver urinal body. It would be a big problem even with a 12 volt system with 4x as thick chunky wires.

[@robertvanderwijst]

John was talking about cars if I'm not mistaken ...good luck using Vanax or Magnacut to build a car body or outer skin lol 😂Layering carbon fibre compounds in between conventional steel alloys during manufacturing would result in a far stronger material relevant to it's application than any extra hardened steel alloy. What would be the point of a carbon tungsten car door for example? Such a door would instantly disintegrate into a thousand pieces if involved in a T-bone type collision, resulting in an even lesser protection of the occupants in that vehicle. Horses for causes 😉

[@typhoon320i]

John, might help for you to watch some Sandy Munro videos about the actual SS used in the cyber truck. It's beats just speculating about it from 10,000 miles away.

[@TroySavary]

Munro is a guy whose area of expertise is using 4 fasteners instead of 6 to save pennies oer unit. Only Tesla stans lusten to him.

[@typhoon320i]

@@TroySavary he's actually very much against bean-counters being involved in engineering decisions. You obviously have never heard him talk.

[@TroySavary]

@@typhoon320i I havexwatched his teardowns where he ripped on companies for using screws when plastic clips would have been cheaper. So it is obviously you that never lustended to him.

[@typhoon320i]

@@TroySavary he wouldn't have said "because it was cheaper" unless it was also a better solution. I have seen many of the teardowns

[@TroySavary]

@@typhoon320i He thought Tesla batteries looked like " alien technology". He a hack. A Tesla shill. Nobody knew who he was until Tesla fan blogs started pushing him as a car expert. He couldn't figure out that the Hummer pack was heavy because it was over engineered to withstand rock crawling. Name anyone outside the Tesla fanbase that listens to him. Well, besides the Aptera scammers.

[@tedantares2751]

So, they made the CyberTrash this way because they did not want to spend hundreds of millions $$$ and many years for a press and other tooling that would be able to stamp body panels out of thick steel sheets. Instead, they decided to simply bend the sheets using a simple and universal bending machine. It's pretty smart

[@alanpartington2540]

Lovely video. It reminded me of an incident at the Heinz factory in Wigan, where a pipe carrying baked beans (about 3 foot in diameter) burst. The repair man fabricated and fitted a replacement using sheet steel, but 2 hours after the beans went back on line they had eaten as hole in the replacement, which was 304 instead of 321. A room about 40 feet square was 5 foot deep in beans by the time they realised what was going on. Oopsy!

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

A room full of beans…

[@onradioactivewaves]

Way to spill the beans

[@edschultheis9537]

Cyber Urinal - That's funny. It does remind me of the utilitarian all-stainless steel urinals that can be found at public rest stops along the freeways in the US. I read someplace that it is simply made of 1/8" thick 304 SST. Nothing magical about that, except that it doesn't lend itself to be easily formed into complex 3D geometries (as in a stamping press). So if Elon wants to use this SST, then he is largely confined to a truck body that looks quite angular. I also got a chuckle from the explanation from Tesla that the SST is so hard that it would break the forming presses. More likely, the work hardening could cause stress cracking at the bends if they are too sharp or aggressive. I suspect that the truck will come with a light brush finish on the SST, as it would hide scratches better. I highly doubt that it will have a polished finish as the first time someone rubs something against it, it will start to show scratches. After a year or two of real service, I don't think that even the light brush finish is going to look very impressive. It will be interesting to see the results of the crash tests by the US NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). I suspect that the results for the Cybertruck will be quite different than all other pickup trucks, as the body will not crumple in the same way as a truck with a more conventional body construction. My first thought is that the Cybertruck body may impart worse injuries to the driver and passengers (due to faster deceleration of the riders as the truck body crumples, and my guess that the Cybertruck body is stiffer than a conventional truck body). But perhaps I'm wrong. We'll see. Ed Schultheis, PE Mechanical design engineer and manufacturing consultant for 35 years Schultek Engineering & Technology Washington state, USA

[@JoeOvercoat]

The steel urinals started in roadhouses as a cheap way to provide a urinal. Would not be surprised if the first ones were modified farm equipment. Then the cheap bars followed their example, and in turn the public providers did the same, for the same reason: it’s cheap and works. it splashes and the installations are generally gross, but it checks the block.

[@JohnH1]

A thing I learned a long time ago, you can't argue against faith...or fanboys with their own agenda.

[@zorbakaput8537]

confirmation bias covered the earth well before the internet. The facts keep shining through all the crap tho.

[@aerotube7291]

You could try....there's a lot of JC brown nosers on here, is that who you meant?

[@AnarchyEnsues]

I think they are claiming it's a martensitic grain structure, from the work hardening.

[@chibidib]

I love how majority of commenters here speculate on things that a) they can easily find online or b) things that have been approved by the regulators. Amazing how they are willing to make fools of themselves just to spit some venom. As for you, John, these are your followers. An apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[@stephenw2992]

Someone should let Elon know that Stainless Steel electrical appliances are so 1990s.

[@gbsailing9436]

Perhaps you should also mention that to Delonghi kitchen appliances...

[@markiangooley]

Fridges and ranges in stainless sheathing (sometimes it’s fake stainless with a clear coating to ward off rust) are still popular, but people don’t realize that they make a kitchen look dark even if they’re shiny… at least people who want them but haven’t lived with them.

[@terryhoath1983]

@@gbsailing9436 The product that gets me is the Delonghi pedal bin. I will forgive them. I don't think that the company is part of the EVangelista movement so can be categorised as "Mostly harmless". This stuff may be offensive to the eye in shops but the problem stops there ..... or in your neighbour's kitchen.

[@tonyfisk8081]

Well, the truck does look a lot like a toaster.

[@1BigBen]

I'm waiting for the abomination remake of Back To Future with CyperUte and Marty McFly is a woman played by Amber Turd and paid for by Musk

[@idanceforpennies281]

A friend of mine went to the Hyundai/Kia factory complex and saw all the steel came from one plant. The thin steel plates are undercover - no rust.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Hyundai operates its own steel mill.

[@idanceforpennies281]

That's right they make their own steel. @@AutoExpertJC

[@AutoExpertJC]

Yep. I've been there.

[@marktaylor4821]

It’s interesting that the last car made that had a stainless steel body was also a resounding success and was put out by a similar snake oil salesman.

[@chrissmith2114]

It pays to regard Electric jesus as a latter day P T Barnum

[@robertharris2262]

And look at the shape of it. Angular wedge...

[@garynew9637]

Also spawned a great series of movies.

[@melvynwoodman5787]

It was a GRP body with s/s decorative overlays, the stainless was never the structure.

[@SteveEddy-od7fb]

Hmmm but Delorean worked at GM for years

[@terryward1422]

An excellent primer on the metallurgy of steel. I would suggest your subscribers share this video widely because very few will be aware of the metalic nuances steel.

[@mikapeltokorpi7671]

It is interesting to see, how fast those Cybertruck work hardened back quarter panels start cracking. It looks like the fastening method to 'exoskeleton' is not at all flexible and those panes are wrinkling and warping due temperature changes (eapecially under sun). This can be seen on all official review videos, if you watch those in full resolution (Hagerty, Top Gear, carwow, Marques Brownlee, etc.).

[@user-qm7be6nw9u]

they are fastened with adhesive

[@semilog643]

Ever used adhesives on stainless in a critical application? There are reasons it's seldom done. @@user-qm7be6nw9u

[@cccmmm1234]

Quarter panels are one thing. What about the load carrying components (chassis etc)? Driving too many dirty roads could be a problem.

[@mikapeltokorpi7671]

@@cccmmm1234 I am waiting when the new traction battery packs start failing. Tesla decided to make those unrepairable.

[@jonbowes5999]

The beauty of the cold rolling process utilised to transition the austenitic steel into martensitic steel is that it only partially transitions just the outer surface to martensitic thus providing the best of both worlds it results in a panel that is both very hard but also not that brittle. this is in fact the game changer and a result of SpaceX metallurgists work in formulating the steels make up. John of course doesn't posses the required knowledge to understand these finer points, he is no expert LoL. This can easily be seen in several non Tesla videos on KZbin in which reviewers have hit the panels hard with large sledgehammers on camera and with Tesla's blessings. For an example check out Jason Commisa's Hagerty review on KZbin @ approx 17 minutes and 40 seconds in.

[@johnvineyard1282]

Stainless steel is more tough than hard. My experience as a retired machinist of 40 years

[@lesliecarter4295]

A tungsten carbide tile cutter could seriously upset an owner of a cyber urinal ! 😂

[@Queenskid19]

A piece of sandpaper would ....Permanently Damage it.

[@dk-bw4gk]

Just brushing against hard sticks while competing in the Baja 500 will seriously damage it.

[@Queenskid19]

@@dk-bw4gk What if your battery dies going 80 on the hwy. And you can't steer the car anymore?

[@dk-bw4gk]

@@Queenskid19 I'm not sure about this, but isn't there a 12V lead-acid battery that runs as backup for the essentials?

[@stefanh616]

@@dk-bw4gk sticks wont do anything vs the cold workhardened Martensite.

[@andrewpienaar4522]

Misleading! You are correct is saying that the correct sized and maintained Press for the job should never break. The problem however lies with the press tool (the mould) that goes inside the press, that actually shapes the part (product). I have seen press tools break due to overload and stress caused by trying to create a shape in the part that is difficult to achieve. That will often mean redesign of the Press tool, the part or both. With a sheet metal that is prone to work hardening (such as stainless steel) as you mentioned, some shapes will therefore be impossible or impractical to achieve consistently. So, Elon should have said it was breaking the Press tool (the mould) and not the Press. Either way, I don't see that shape catching on.

[@Talik13]

I'm so glad to hear someone explain this in such a measured, reasonable way. Not that Tesla simps will listen, but I'm glad to have your voice to help explain the thoughts in my head

[@RoadRallyLife]

Spent a day with the Cybertruck, absolutely amazing in person. Sold on it, the thing is a tank, makes all other trucks look like children's toys.

[@George2647g]

Not at all the vibe of all knowing smug John Cadogan here… but then many of the top comments aren’t… duude..

[@100Jeanluc]

@@George2647g you can always believe what you want to believe. Didn't hear anything concrete from @RoadRallyLife to support what he says. At least John puts something up that people can criticize other just a statement. At least John is saying stuff that can be checked against the science he is putting up. And by all means, you can do the same.

[@George2647g]

@@100Jeanluc Totally - "Duuude.." At least Sandy Munro who is an engineer puts up a lot more than John actually 'knows' and actually gives a tour of the Tesla manufacturing line.. So I'm checking against the science and it checks out. Old man, out of touch cynical John here does not... "Duuude".. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXfKeKGeh7-UqLs

[@HarveyCohen]

What tank performance stat does your cybertruck emulate? Top speed? Range?

[@user-kz6te8wc6d]

John, sorry but I think you may have missed a material science class or two at Uni. You can wire draw austenitic stainless steel to achieve much higher strengths than the normal UTS. See the material strength of stainless steel wire rope, i.e. 1570 MPa + due to work hardening. For steels, hardness is a good correlation with strength. Minor differences in material composition can lead to significant differences in mechanical properties. Have you actually investigated this and the post treatments? You can't lust lump all 300 series stainless steels in the same basket. You have completely ignored geometry of the vehicle structure. It is just as if not more so important as the materials used. Your explanations for the crash performance of the the vehicle are very simplistic, misleading, and clearly aimed at non technical people who don't know better. Let the results of the cash testing speak for themselves. Whether the Cyber truck is a good vehicle or not is up for debate. My preference is for efficiency but that doesn't seem to be a strong selling point with the general public at this stage. You can make good points with your videos but they are increasing coming across as passive aggressive. You come across as a whinger who failed at engineering rather than providing constructive comments. I suggest you add some commentary on ways forwards rather than just complaining. I am increasing disliking Elon as a person but that shouldn't detract from comments about Tesla vehicles.I suggest you comment after getting some real information rather than just guessing. Yes there are issues. Lets talk about solutions. When it comes to the energy transition, this is a fast moving field. The information you sprout needs to be current, like the percentage of fossil fuel generation when assessing the eco friendliness of EVs. I trust you can do that else I would think you are really just looking for clicks. I use to enjoy reading your column in the old Wheels magazine days. I like the humour but I need accurate facts to keep being a viewer.

[@pcsolutionman]

Yep talking out his ass.

[@laeneel]

I have to agree sadly, while I generally enjoy John's content, I've found his dislike of Musk and Tesla to be somewhat unhinged to be honest and the facts relating to the Cybertruck simply don't seem to stack up and there is plenty of content out there from actual working "engineers" which directly contradict John's assertions, I'm not a Tesla fan by any means as their business practices are a mirror image of Apple's ruthless screwing of their customers...but Musk whatever you might think of him has hired the best engineers for all his companies, will the Truck be a success...that remains to be seen.

[@achasilas6535]

Finally a reasonable opinion on this channel. I can't believe people think this guy is honest or knows what he is saying. He's not even an engineer. People listen to him like it's gospel and I find he is factually inaccurate in so many things he says and covers it with insults and humor.

[@Sendu7]

Agree, constructive criticism is far more valuable than endless complaining. A not so fun fact is the Greenland ice sheet is losing one millions tonnes of ice per minute. Like it or not. over time we have to stop putting so much carbon into the atmosphere.

[@George2647g]

You clearly didn’t get the main message from this 22 minute video and that is that John knows a whole lot more about steel and car engineering than you or your ‘cranks’ over at tesla ever will! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGbddYGXjpaZrKs Here is a video where the engineers over at Muskville crank on about their supposed ‘science’ and ‘research’ into how they made this new stainless steel and the new ‘airbending’ process.. To me they come across as shoddy used car salesmen who have no idea what they’re talking about! I’d far more trust John who, as he demonstrates with his confident smugness in this video - knows far, far more than they and their ‘engineering’ in how to make a car that won’t fall apart in just a few months than they ever will! I really hope John starts his own company and shows those cranks what a real car company with real parts and real gasoline ran by somone who actually knows what they’re talking about can do! MmmmmATE! John : if you’d ever like to go out to dinner in Seattle the offer still stands as always!! 🍆🍆

[@overland_adventure_nz]

Well said John, did they also pull the wool over most peoples eyes with the original launch years ago throwing a steel ball at the window to break it? Yet, at the release of production models they used to baseball or softball against the windows ?

[@kylereese4822]

Behind the scenes of that test was with USA`s secret service attending IT DID NOT SMASH. Images can be found on google.

[@fractalelf7760]

The reason the window broke was the window was already damaged; they had already done several throws at it before the event backstage in rehearsal. This is well documented, no “pulling the wool over” going on. They also explained the softer balls was kind of a joke, as the production windows are much lower grade than the prototype. When John gets his first ship to orbit I think we can take his full analysis a bit more seriously. Elon is lead engineer at Space-X and Tesla btw…

[@siraff4461]

@@fractalelf7760 Lead engineer? 🤣🤣🤣

[@fractalelf7760]

@@siraff4461 Look it up, it’s true. You’re just ignorant on this point.

[@overland_adventure_nz]

@@fractalelf7760 Hahaha Lead Engineer! No way, as an Engineer myself I could see straight through his BS. Time to move forward and realise that electric vehicles are not the future that the past. The future is ultra high mileage low polluting vehicles! I have just ordered myself a new Manual Transmission, Diesel V8 4x4 vehicle

[@Gumbatron01]

I wonder how expensive it will be to get panel damage repaired. Are the panels repairable, or do they just replace the whole thing? Some people might get a nasty surprise with that.

[@northof-62]

I remember when our milk tanker trucks got dents in the tanks they were just left unrepaired, unless there was a hole. If they had a vacuum accident, they were scrapped.

[@moleisrich1]

@@northof-62same here. We had a fleet of milk tankers and still have even more liquid sugar. Most of the time the dents were left in. But sometimes we had entire panels replaced. Expensive.

[@Engineersoldinterstingstuff]

It seems to be magnetic so its ferritic, martensitic steels is not cold rolled. Its likeky a cold rolled steel, cold rolled steels basically gets its strengt by reducing the difference between ultimate- and yield strength, this is the window you must stay within during forming otherwise it will break. The steel is so brittle from the start that it cant be plasticly deformed much otherwise it cracks.

[@richardb6019]

Just watched an ‘analysis’ by Sandy Munro. I’m not an engineer, and don’t have any witty t-shirts or CyberTruck magnetic bottle openers, but I found Mr Munro sounded authoritative but lacked any actual analysis, which I appreciated from John. I guess it all boils down to considered analysis of public, rolling urinal manufacturing techniques. Perhaps John and Sandy could have a discussion one day?

[@maxheadroom7687]

OMG John you just gave me the horrors of my Uni engineering course, Youngs Modulus of Elasticity, Crystalline structures etc. Used to enjoy pulling the test samples apart in a test rig, less the examination of the crystalline deformations etc! Love the way you go through such Engineering truths into your presentations and make it so much more relevant than my old tutors.

[@Mrbfgray]

Check in w Auto Clown couple X every decade. What a childish cartoon this hack is.

[@timmo42]

It’s a pity he’s got NFI on what he’s talking about though. John’s content rarely ever stands the test of time…

[@oscariglesias9004]

I remember an article about a study from (if memory serves) Mazda about making some key structural elements with ~1500MPa steel, and even turning some body panels into main structural elements, lowering mass and centre of gravity and all the benefits related. It was 10 years ago.

[@XxBec3509]

Won't be long before the first cyber urinal does a auto flush in a carpark. These things are inevitable.

[@johnanthonycolley3803]

That's going to be an awful BIG tinkle 🙃

[@jonlee580]

I worked in a tool and die shop..i used to bend steel pipes with a hydraulic press everyday..u can bend steel pretty easy with the right tools also u can make the steel harder by heat treating it after u bend or form the steel. The fact the Cyber junk has sharp edges blows my mind..as if they couldnt do a better job bending the end of the steel so it isnt hazardly sharp

[@petermclennan6781]

You can always count on the Aussies to, with humour and inventive slang take the piss out of the rest of us. Thanks from all us! :)

[@peterwilding1203]

JC, thanks for materials science lecture! Really easy to follow - shame Elon doesn't seem to know any of this stuff. Or maybe he thinks he's enough of a celebrity that the facts will change to suit him. Would (or could) this be substantially different from the stuff they used on the De Lorean? Yeah, that didn't work out well either...

[@Kitty-oy5nj]

ive seen Ford F350s being repaired by youtube guys and the side panels for that are like a few kg, and thinner than a can of coke, and even 3mm hail would put a dent in it. When once we had a large hail storm, every cheap asian car had dents like a golf ball, but BMWs had no zero dents in it.

[@AutoExpertJC]

DeLorean alloy is 304 I think.

[@russcattell955i]

@@AutoExpertJC And a more complex shape in the panels !

[@YusufGinnah]

@@russcattell955iEven travels through time. 😎👍🏼

[@andyfreeze4072]

wow, some of the smartest people on the planet work for tesla, i would take their word over a carsalesman. Its not Elon doing the work, naive at best thinking.

[@timblaxland294]

John, bring back the flip charts! Engineering is so much better with a flip chart and a random pointing implement, say, a swarf wand or similar.

[@Confucius_Says...]

Amen ‼️

[@henryrodier8024]

300 series Stainless Steel can be a bit brittle so we should look for cracking and checking the material after impact my biggest problem with the cyber truck is that when you close the tonneau cover the rear window goes away I assume there are cameras to help with this but I don’t want to drive that way.

[@Kitty-oy5nj]

you didnt watch many videos, yes it has a camera for rear view, JUST like the Corvette C8 and many other cars.

[@volentimeh]

@@Kitty-oy5nj Pointing out that other people are also doing stupid shit doesn't make it a good idea.

[@henryrodier8024]

@@Kitty-oy5nj I don't plan on buying one so if it was one giant camera it would not make up for lack of being able to see the inside of the bed but not out the window.

[@christo930]

The car going to scratch the first time you wash it? Dude, you realize there are 40 year old Delorean around, right? There are many many examples of this car that are still on the road and look great. You know train cars were made with stainless steel outer shells for decades right?

[@frankierays]

And now we are seeing the rust only a couple of weeks in. Thank you for your no BS info!

[@icarusq]

Musk, he's the gift that just keeps giving.

[@BatCaveOz]

-the gift that keeps giving- The grift that keeps grifting. (ITFY)

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

I'm dyslexic and have a little trouble with comprehending the written word. Letters appear jumbled, to me. Who is this Skum that you speak of?

[@jasonpapai]

@@BatCaveOz Bastad, I was going to do that joke

[@BatCaveOz]

@@jasonpapai It kind of wrote itself 😉

[@PlatinumRatio]

he has a gang of future transhumanists too

[@ritual64]

Just love the new name for Electric Jesus, Space Karen. Just perfect.

[@frankbaran5698]

Also love "rolling cyber urinal"

[@SwedishMisha]

If we assume the stainless 30X is regular 304 grade. Tesla will face alot of claims that their Cyber Truck have issues with rust, especially in coastal regions and in industrial areas with air pollution. They can have avoided this by clear coating the steel. We will see how it folds out.

[@ludditeneaderthal]

Except stainless doesn't like paint. Not a major problem for the old brushed finish coffee table frame, but on a flexing rattling uv bombarded surface like a car body, think 90s to 00s chevy clearcoat in florida... lololol

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Good luck finding a clear coat that will go over stainless steel and stand the test of time.

[@SwedishMisha]

@@davidbrayshaw3529 I did not say it would work over time. It's just a quick fix. They do the same on refrigerator doors, but there it is done to minimize the problems with finger prints.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@SwedishMisha There's a point. I wonder how that finish holds up to UV?

[@SwedishMisha]

@@davidbrayshaw3529 I am just speculating what Tesla can have done. I know a standard grade 304 will have rust issues overtime in coastal regions.

[@hbox21]

DeLorean managed to make a cool looking car out of stainless. must have had a better press

[@ZygonesBzygones]

meh

[@dsteffler54]

While I agree that you won’t break the “press”, you may very well break the “die” that actually forms the part that goes in the “press” by trying to form a stainless steel part into a more regular shape that is done with the typical type of steel normally used…. And you would most certainly break the “punches” in the “die” if you tried to make holes in the stainless steel part. You should have differentiated between the press and the die. The only thing I learned from you that was useful is that the material will scratch with a Scotch pad. But will it rust from salt exposure?

[@PhanoftheShow]

from what i remember Franz said they couldn’t stamp the steel like how panels are typically made so they had to rely on bending with a press and that’s how they settled on the design

[@youteacher78]

I'm a simple man, I see a video dunking on Elongated Muskrat, I hit like.

[@UncleJoeLITE]

I even reply to a random good comment! 🤣

[@FishandHunt]

You had me at 'space Karen' John. 😂

[@achasilas6535]

I will take space Karen anyway over a KZbin engineer who insults his way to hide his ignorance and has never designed anything that's in production and changing the lives of anyone on earth. 😂

[@FishandHunt]

@@achasilas6535 👈🏻 Looks like one of electric god's cult members is triggered. 😂

[@SpencerHHO]

Pre-emptively hanging my metaphorical ass out since you kinda asked. My guess is that Elon heard that the dies used for stamping presses, experience greater wear with work hardening alloys like stainless compared to low alloy steels that are more amenable to cold working. He then went on to exagerate this basic fact of manufacturing to such levels that it surpassed mere BS and entered outright falsehood. If I had to guess, theyd be relying on a brakepress type process which is cheaper for tooling but more difficult to do repeatedly and precisely. I have a love hate relationship with stainless steel fabrication. Being moderately proficient has been very useful in various jobs I've had but low alloys are much easier to work with... and cheaper lol Post video edit: Austenetic stainless steels can be stamped and in fact are stamped it just requires more expensive hardened dies that still typically have a shorter life than the cheaper dies used on softer carbon steels. Austenetic stainless steels are characterised by the inclusion of nickel and chromium above 5% of the total elements. Generally the more chromium the higher grade upto 308, 316 has less chromium but has molybdenum as well which gives additional corrosion resistance and other properties. The stainless that tesla are using is derived from (if not the exact same) the alloy spaceX "developed" it's a relatively low grade stainless with a much higher carbon content than usual. My speculation is that this alloy work hardens and becomes brittle with much less deformation, making conventional stamping impossible or impractical. My understanding is that 304L or 316L are commonly used in most stamped stainless products as these alloys have exceptionally low carbon content.

[@matth1929]

Re 316L/304L steels. Yep much lower carbon content, and significantly lower strength. Also passivation is more of a bitch in "L" type steels. The carbon from the tool steel embeds itself into the pressed pieces and causes unsightly rust lines and associated corrosion cracks. I don't understand why stainless was chosen for a body material at all. We have a complete separate shop for all stainless steel fabrication. Why you would introduce this variable into a manufacturing plant I don't understand.

[@user-qm7be6nw9u]

@@matth1929the body panels are structural which drastically reduces the amount of necessary structure in the roll cage / framing / etc… with added benefit of removing paint shop & avoiding pretty much any dent / scratch outside of an actual crash… people that have to constantly repaint their car due to whatever they use it for DO NOT care about unfixable scratched / scuffed stainless that can only be wiped down & left as is…

[@williamgeorgefraser]

I'm surprised MusX hasn't declared that the Xybertruck is shaped that way because it is a "stealth vehicle" and doesn't show up on police radar or speed cameras. Mind you, the way things are going, there won't be any of them around to show up on radar or speed cameras. By the way, if the body steel is so hard, where is the crumple zone when it hits something solid? Could it be inside the human body when it hits the windscreen?

[@mickeydrippins6408]

As my old man (engineer, of the software kind) deteriorates, he still watches, enjoys, shares, and discusses your vids with me. Thanks for the great content, John.

[@lucadellasciucca967]

the cybertruck is out and we now know this content is wrong!

[@btiger1281]

I was having dinner and , when you said Cyber Urinal, I could stop laughing 😂 , you have such a way with words.

[@slacker2101]

Enjoyed this. The de Lorean shows that a stainless vehicle with grace is possible, though it does dent rather easily I believe. Not sure of the grade of stainless used.

[@onradioactivewaves]

It was originally 0.8 mm 304 brushed stainless, later upgraded to 316.

[@danieldelmore6485]

Martensitic stainless has a much higher tensile strength than austenitic stainless. Martensitic could be somewhere between 700 - 2000 MPa. This video is not talking about the right type of steel.

[@semilog643]

The patent application (it's an application, not an awarded patent) says it's (maybe) 12% martensitic. The rest is austenitic.

[@danieldelmore6485]

@@semilog643 could be. It’s also possible that it’s somewhat magnetic. This you tuber is hilarious since he assumes everything and just likes to piss and whine. Haha

[@dalemeyers4175]

Way back in the early 60s Pontiac Motor Division built a number of Super Duty Catalina 2 door hardtops with aluminum front sheet metal. They were essentially factory race cars, known as Swiss Cheese cars. Forming the aluminum sheets into inner and outer front fenders, hood, front bumper and brackets, and radiator support without breaking it was not easy to do. I believe for all of the same reasons John talks about here. The parts however did look identical to their regular steel counterparts with all the proper curves and contours.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

Weren't those acid dipped as well ? NASCAR did some crazy shit to best the rules ! LoL

[@johnelectric933]

After a career in electronics I still am in total awe of you mechanical guys. I remember learning bits and pieces of this stuff, but never heard it put together so understandably.

[@grantlouw3182]

Face centred cubic crystal gave me brain bleed memories of crystalography class at uni.

[@robwazny9416]

I have watched a rather long presentation on it and have to admit I was impressed with the 4 wheel steering and air bag suspension. But puzeled by the lack of a frame. They were actually claiming that the reason they didn't need a frame like a conventional pickup was because this body panels were so strong there was no need to add the extra weight. I suppose what their not telling us is that the battery box is the real structural component of the vehicle. At that point I was wondering which would happen first. The wheels fall off or the whole thing just snap in half. I guess the joke be on me if the wheels fall off it snaps in half and the battery goes on fire all at the same time.

[@YusufGinnah]

Don't forget that it doesn't have any side impact protection built into the doors, etc for the same supposed reason.

[@tonyfisk8081]

...and sank into the swamp...

[@RwP223]

Did you notice the steering wheel is not mechanically connected to the wheels, unlike modern electric assist racks that accomplish the same thing with redundancy.

[@petesmitt]

The Cybertruck has a normal steel monocoque with non structural stainless panels attached.

[@charlestoast4051]

@@petesmitt that would be good news - you could swap out the stainless with aftermarket plastic or aluminum panels and save a ton of weight.

[@iainagile5564]

As some one that works in the Metal Manufacturing trades (Fitter Machinist). The first thing you get taught about most common materials in your first year as an apprentices, is that the harder the material, the more brittle it is. I learnt this at age 16. Why would you want to build a brittle car? Also, I used to work in a factory where we would formed and extruded a 5 pointed star shape washers about 250mm long x 5mm thick out of coiled 304 stainless steel on a 500 ton stamping press. The press strain gauges would measure 250 ton on the columns of the press. This press would punch hundreds of thousands of these plates around the clock. Not once did I see the press or the tool struggle at all. The press was 50 years old at the time, and has punched over 20 million hits. Sadly, we don't value the manufacturing engineering trades or the education behind it. So it's easy to throw statements like electric Jesus just did without anyone from the main stream media questioning it. Maybe because they lack the basic engineering principles of material hardness. If he said those statements in Newcastle 50 years ago when the town was still steel making, the whole town would have laughed at him!

[@williamscoggin1509]

I guess they didn't teach you that there are different levels of hardness of stainless. Why don't you educate yourself on the type of stainless that Tesla is using before you make a fool out of yourself on the internet. 🫣

[@andyfreeze4072]

you still have a lot to learn..........Tesla is all about cutting edge technology........they are far more advanced than your text books.

[@user-qm7be6nw9u]

@@williamscoggin1509I find it funny this guy just threw out a single life example of unknown stainless & claims that undeniably proves Tesla incorrectly dialed in their materials & forming methods

[@iainagile5564]

Whoa ...Triggered Tesla Fan boys (bots)....Didn't watch the video, Don't read books, don't work in industry, Don't know how to comprehend English language.

[@jonathanperry4189]

I live in Sheffield, England. Home of steel going back 00's of years. Stainless steel was an accidental discovery. They thought they'd f'd up a batch of metal, so they dumped it in the yard and remade a batch of whatever. They noticed it didn't rust when sat outside, and voila, a stainless steel star is born

[@bradwhyte8106]

I think it is a little silly to think Elon Musk is the only guy who works at Tesla. I’m pretty sure that out of the 130,000 staff someone there has a very good understanding of Metallurgy. Mr Musk just seems to like to exaggerate a little. But dont let that put you off the fact the truck is a break through in a whole bunch of technology that has never been done at scale. I have no doubt John is absolutely correct about the limitations with this 308 based stainless. But seeing some of that crash test footage in that review video proves that the combination of all the materials and how it is design makes it stronger. Have to polish the thing with Steel wool - oh well.

[@simoncrooke1644]

Musk is always front and centre at every Tesla promotion and he is the very public CEO of the company. He gives the strong impression that he is personally responsible for everything. I think he likes it that way and so do his cult members.

[@Tschacki_Quacki]

@@simoncrooke1644 No he doesn't give that impression. It's just an ignorant claim that the usual haters repeat and repeat and repeat. Literally the first thing Musk always does when he speaks publicly for Tesla, is thanking and praising the people who work at Tesla. At most Tesla events, Musk is the one with the shortest amount of speakers time. He just does the intro, introduces the actual team that is going to speak and leads the Q&A at the end. The only events where Musk is the head of the show are just the delivery and unveil events that happen every few years.

[@simoncrooke1644]

@@Tschacki_Quacki You are a certified member of the Church of Electric Scientology.

[@juliancox4178]

No mention of DeLorean John, I think you missed some good analogies there ? Ironically the same type of shapes. I'm sure they would have gone through the same manufacturing challenges. Oh yeah, and their owners also report they are difficult to the keep clean and not introduce scratches.

[@AndyRRR0791]

I can't believe a KZbinr that makes videos about cars knows more than the doood who actually makes cars. It's roooly amazing!

[@supergengo]

Musk doesn’t make cars, he’s a marketer/promoter and financier. Pretty impressive considering that he’s also a douche.

[@ismailnyeyusof3520]

It helps, a little, to check these people out from time to time.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

One is an engineer by education, the other is an economist. Who do you want next to you when your car wont start in the middle of nowhere? I'll take Cadogan, thanks. You can have Elon.

[@singed8853]

It’s possible but I think you’re missing the point. Elon musk lying or marketing things dishonestly would mean he has less knowledge than someone else on the topic? No - and that’s the main point.

[@jonathanrabbitt]

He reads his script from the teleprompter.

[@5150TJT]

2 million narcissists driving the exact same identical truck 🤔 what could go wrong, 😂😂😂

[@ouethojlkjn]

Wow John, I never knew you also have a company building self landing rockets and millions of cars, you super genius.

[@kensmith5694]

You may want to read up on some of the physics of the self landing rockets. In a lot of ways they don't make sense. You have to keep enough fuel to do the landing so your payload is limited resulting in less income per launch. This largely eliminates any advantage from the reuse.

[@ouethojlkjn]

@@kensmith5694 We have another Genius. Perhaps you might look into what the other joke outfits are doing when it comes to any launch vehicle at all. And what they cost. Let alone re-use possibilities. You might also like to look up how many launches Spacex have undertaken for paying customers. And that the company itself is valued at $185bn. Yes, Spacex needs to come knocking on your door for some wisdom. They clearly have no idea.

[@kensmith5694]

@@ouethojlkjn I suggest you take your own advice and go look up the facts. You will confirm that I am correct. Look up the cost per launch and how long until reuse and etc. Then look up what others have charged to put payloads in orbit. You will see.

[@ouethojlkjn]

@@kensmith5694 I don’t need to do any of that I’m a super genius. I’m the world’s greatest armchair expert don’t you know? Despite all the competition on this channel.

[@marcusrwalker]

@@kensmith5694 Your making yourself sound like an idiot. Pre Elon it cost $25,000 USD to get an apple to the ISS, SpaceX does it for $2,000 USD.

[@brianlawson3757]

"Electric Jesus" made me shoot coffee out of my nose! 😂

[@davegoldspink5354]

Great one Johnno absolutely love your completely logical argument. Think I was right but if you beg to differ I’m listening. Have had my own experiences with stainless steel in my time while working at the then BHP Port Kembla processing the stuff in Plate Finishing both magnetic and non magnetic plate 5mm and over the stuff was a nightmare to work with and I didn’t even think about how shithouse the stuff would be to use as a vehicle body until I watched this one. I’m guessing it’s the DeLoren DMC 2.0 with a stupider power train (a 97kw V6 Renault, engine and a parts bin raid was bad enough) no coke hidden under the seats.

[@aussiebloke609]

De Lorean 2.0 was my first thought as soon as I saw the Cyberwank being planned. I've seen how difficult it is to repair even minor blemishes on Cokemobiles, and all these flat planes on the 'Wank are only going to make that more difficult.

[@avgjoe5969]

Took a couple of years of Metallurgy and followed Tesla since the dawn of the Model S. You made 2 mistakes in your assessment: 1) The Cybertruck skin is 3x thicker than a conventional panel (it replaces the frame as an exoskeleton and is load bearing) 2) The skin is Cold Rolled (Strain hardened) Stainless. The alloy Was created by Tesla for enhanced Weldability (not to enhance strength). Detail: Tesla uses Cold Rolled Stainless... the steel is Strain Hardened... That's where it gets its strength. The special alloy Tesla developed was designed to enhance the weldability of the metal. They had a problem with seams bursting at extreme high pressure in their new orbital rocket which contains thousands of tons of cryogenic fuel under extreme pressure in a rocket fuel tank 3-4mm thick So yes, its no Cobham Armor, but its far stronger (High Tensile strength, High shear resistance, High Hardness, lower but quite usable ductility. It is far more difficult to deform than conventional mild steel panels. Hence the angular shape of the vehicle. That was not a design choice. It was a design necessity. While tool steels are very hard (and frequently brittle if not forged correctly) this is in no way a proper comparison. You would Never use tool steel in the exoskeleton of a car like Cybertruck (or any other vehicle save maybe a tank). High strength steels Are used in the passenger cage of a quality car but Mild steel is used in the other parts of the frame and in all of the panels. So Yes. Cold rolled steel in 3mm or so thickness used in the Cybertruck (about 3x as thick as a panel on a regular car) will stop normal handgun ammo fired at close range and it will damage the dye of a stamping machine. So no. The hardness and resilience of the Cyber truck exoskeleton (skin) is not hyped. Many articles have covered the Cybertruck and the thickness has been (mostly) noted but they forgot that it is strain hardened steel somewhere along the line (easier to just say "Hard" without all the science).

[@alexmacleod6732]

Read your comment 3 times, each time I read it I can only come up with wtf and wtf. Work hardening stainless to make it more weldable, without changing the recipe of the stainless doesn't make it TESLA steel. The look of this truck alone is proof enough that this is an irresponsible material to use to make a pickup truck out of, that seems very obvious to me. Space craft ... Yeah Pickup truck.... No

[@biglouie2330]

When you say it will scratch the first time it's washed does that mean there's no clear coat on it? Without that the body will look like complete garbage in no time. Also it will be annoying as hell to keep clean. Not to mention all the people putting their finger prints on it when they walk by.

[@zorbakaput8537]

No clear coat afain, watch Marcus Brownlee put his fingerprints all over it and comment about it - complete rubbish finish in the 21st century. It will be over $200K in Oz.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Stainless is almost impossible to paint (reliably).

[@jjohnson8977]

had a stainless steel sink that got hardwater stains from water dripping off drying dishes. could not clean polish it off used silver polish too. nothing worked ever

[@KidHorn7001]

From wikipedia..."Stainless steel is strong, about 3 times stronger than ordinary steel. For type AISI 302 cold-rolled, its yield strength (i.e. its elastic limit) is 520 MPa, and its ultimate strength is 860 MPa. It is also quite hard; its hardness on the Brinell scale is 200, versus 120 for ordinary steel and 15 for pure aluminium.". Not sure why he think it's not hard.

[@kensmith5694]

Wikipedia is just stuff people put in there. "ordinary steel" includes a lot of stuff stronger than 300 series stainless. The whole purpose of the 300 series is not great strength. Other alloys are often over 1000MPa

[@gilliesiut2332]

@@kensmith5694why’d the truck stop .45 APC and 12 gauge buck?

[@kensmith5694]

@@gilliesiut2332Steel is generall strong stuff if you make it thick enough.

[@gilliesiut2332]

@@kensmith5694 stainless is stronger.

[@MrStephendowns]

I would have thought the relevant comparison would be between the properties of stainless steel and paint. Scratched pain would likely the more of a problem than somewhat scratched stainless steel.

[@siraff4461]

That depends if you want to fix the scratch. Paint is usually easy and cheap to fix. Stainless is known for the exact opposite.

[@zoransarin5411]

@@siraff4461 Have you ever owned a 4x4? Taken it off-road? As someone who has spent many years off-roading, I can tell you that it is harsh on paint. I would love to have had a stainless exoskeleton.

[@siraff4461]

@@zoransarin5411 You think you would. Reality is you would be better off with a wrap or plastic panels which are easy to swap. Again if you don't care about scratches then it makes some sense but not as much sense as alluminium which is far lighter and does the same trick of not rusting. I wonder why so many car makers stick to steel or alloy?

[@zoransarin5411]

@@siraff4461 cost

[@AndrewReadman]

​@@siraff4461cos it's cheap to buy, cheap to form and doesn't require much force to shape. The ct is tougher because the material is tougher and resistant to deformation.

[@Rockbottomsurf]

The Filipinos used to make “Jeepny” buses out of stainless steel in the 70’s and 80’s by hand and they ran forever.

[@theairstig9164]

Vanuatu has stainless Ute tubs

[@dtengineering1]

As they say "Don't let the truth get in the road of a good story". Great report again John.

[@CReadiusPro]

And I thought metal fatigue was getting tired in a mosh pit at a Slayer concert.

[@lesliecarter4295]

Funny. Not too many in the comments are arguing that it looks like a urinal ? Whenever I take a p**s at a stadium I will think of Elon ! 😂