Is Carbon Better Than Alloy On An eBike? | EMBN Show 343

[@embn]

Is your eBike made of carbon or alloy? Let us know why you chose it!

[@Derbloon]

I like Aluminium and Titanium as Frame materials. Unfortunately nobody makes Titanium EMTBs - obviously a niche that is too small ? Seeing the price of the Nicola MGU bike a Titanium version can't be much more expensive... Carbon Frames are dubious concerning durability/cracks/accidents and especially concerning recycling at end of life. I wonder if a kilo of weight savings is really worth the higher price and the plastic feel including the motor echo.

[@drahoslavhorvath]

Trek Rail 9.7 - carbon with aluminum rear triangle

[@Coolcmsc]

Carbon (Bullit). For me, the answer hinges on ‘lifting’ the thing. I’m old and despite visiting the gym twice a week, I’m just not strong these days and for the same reason my eeb increases access for me. So, walls, styles, fences, high lips into the backs of cars and lifting onto an uplift trailer are genuinely at my limit if over 22kg.

[@vr4042]

As for e-bikes, while I'd admit carbon is not necessary for weight issues, but when you're already spending $5-10k for an e-bike, why not get carbon?? The markup is a much smaller percentage of the cost compared to an Analog bike.

[@omahamtb6580]

I have a Canyon Strive:ON Underdog and it is my first eMTB and my first carbon bike! However, the frame material had zero influence on my decision to buy it. While I'm riding, I don't even think about the frame material because I can't tell a difference. I was extremely surprised at how much the rear triangle flexes. When I noticed, I immediately looked for cracks and did a bolt check. All is still good 500 miles in!

[@Shawn-in-da-Canyon]

I wish you guys would do a video about aftermarket batteries. If such a thing exists. If it doesn’t, someone needs to come along and make them more powerful and lighter. They also need to make better battery extenders.

[@declanclegg12]

@Shawn-in-da-Canyon there's a few people that make them at home you can find a few videos on this as a new battery from the manufacturer can cost 4 times the amount of building your own

[@jokermtb]

Had an ebike epiphany last year in Bentonville, riding back up for another run, and in full turbo mode, I actually used the berms to corner harder while pedalling uphill! That is something I never envisioned in all my years of mountain biking. Ebikes turn uphills into fun singletrack! Mind blown.

[@bradsanders6954]

Ive been riding dirtbikes all my life, if you think uphill berms are fun on an EMTB? Try a 46 HP KTM 300! I have always ridden both, dirtbikes and bicycles.

[@bruce.KAY-bike-drifter]

Uphill flow 😊

[@embn]

eBike have defiantly made uphill so much more fun and opened up climbs that would have been impossible. Be careful when riding a trail backwards though, you don't want to have a head on collision with someone! 🤟

[@jokermtb]

@@embn absolutely - I had clear sight lines the whole way back up (and it was a green trail too).

[@jokermtb]

@@bradsanders6954 same here! used to run #34 on my moto in honor of Danny 'magoo' Chandler

[@jokermtb]

It's that situation where you stop after a ride, lean your carbon frame bike against a light pole, and while you're faffing around, a wind comes and turns the front wheel allowing the bike frame to slide down the rough metal light pole, etching a ragged rat-a-tat scrape n' scratch down your pristine carbon top tube.......you can even see some of the carbon weave is torn. That's why I like aluminum.

[@bradsanders6954]

Aluminum cracks and cant be welded, that's why I like carbon, lots of people fix carbon. Scratching paint on aluminum is just as attractive as scratching paint on carbon.

[@paulmageean2056]

That’s exactly what happened to me not great Merida now do same frames in alloy and carbon virtually no difference in weight but alloy cheaper no brainer alloy next time

[@jokermtb]

@@paulmageean2056 Yeah.....I've held a carbon frame and aluminum frame side by side a couple of times, and the weight difference is barely noticeable before you start hanging stuff on the frames. I think in the future, when they start sprinkling in other materials, like metal fibers, or who knows what into the composite, we may see a 'carbon' frame with the scratch n' ding resistance of a metal frame. That's the next stage in technology that will merge the two streams together....

[@MrMatthias03]

Alloy, more affordable. I really appreciate everyone at EMBN for the writing and work they do. Thanks for the content, EMBN!

[@justinmills556]

Fazua has recently announced a new version of its battery. 480 up from 430. Same size and weight and fits the same way into your frame. This is definitely the way companies should reward us for choosing their products. Not making products with different mounting systems that can’t be fitted to your existing bike.

[@wmercer7234]

Owens hairdo looks like it should come with a chinstrap

[@embn]

It's extra padding for his helmet!

[@johnlaw3323]

Very illuminating discussion thanks for making and sharing.

[@nomad-pq4yw8iy7v]

I think one thing that does seem to get talked about much is the lifetime guarantee. I think this is key! There aren't as many carbon frames with that coverage but, it says a lot about the ones that are.

[@davefreeman9347]

I remember when Steve rode the Trek Fuel EXe and then ride the alloy version a few months later and preferred that frame due to the extra comfort and trail compliance I’m currently on a carbon frame but certainly will consider alloy when I go full fat Emtb 👌 great discussion guys

[@egbah428]

Well I'm on a carbon e bike, had it for 2 years now and I'm onto my 3rd frame. 2 occasions the frame where the suspension mounts sits has cracked . And the rear break mount split and calliper fell out. I have been re assured that the frame should not be doing this and is designed for my riding. I'm not a heavy rider.

[@pizza4921]

I've had a mondraker crafty aloy bike I've had for 2 years now and no problems at all, I don't get the point of carbon when it snaps easier and it may make a 2kg difference but the bike weighs 26kg in the first place, 2kg douse NOTHING from my experience at that weight originally

[@ruralpestcontrol]

The reason I chose my ebike was cost and availability at the time. As for carbon over alloy, I'm not racing my ebike or ride competitively. So the cost far outweighs the gains. I love my ebike and I love riding it.

[@datractor]

Wow 20 mins of waffling and you never answered the question lol

[@alexclark9514]

I got my first E-bike in May this year it's a Trek powerfly 7 gen 4. It's great. My wife got the Trek Allant 7+ E-bike, and she loves it. Both are alloy and are strong and sturdy, weighing about 24kg each. Remove battery's when putting them onto the car

[@sled5196]

I'll soon be taking delivery of a carbon eMTB of which I already own the Alloy acoustic version. Will be interested in seeing how the two will compare.

[@davidshepherd5206]

Canyon Strive On CFR is perfect bike good feel,planted I love mine

[@kickin123]

Currently flip flopping between a 2025 ORBEA Rise SL M20 (carbon) or H20 (alloy). It shouldn’t be this hard to decide!

[@embn]

Both great bikes! Have you test ridden either of them?

[@kickin123]

@@embn I've demo'd last years Rise in alloy... the LBS wont have the new models until the new year and even then probably only in alloy which is what makes the decision so difficult... do I 'upgrade' to the carbon unridden/unseen. Would be first emtb and first carbon frame so its a hard choice!

[@Paulo-fr3xm]

Having had both, snapped carbon but the alloys still rocking.

[@YngveSjo]

Firstly, thanks for the answers, grip is absolutely the next frontier, as tire manufacturers now must take all the nm and other demands an emtb represents into account. As for material choice, I started with carbon because I got a half price deal off a GT Force Pro in 2015. Then I was hankering for an emtb due to less time for riding, and after going through copious KZbin test videos and checking a couple of bikes, I ended up with another carbon rig - Transition Relay GX AXS. And it rips, both up an down! 😁👍

[@emotioneering]

Great discussion as usual. I’ve got a carbon Heckler with a big slot in the downtube and it handles great (ask Danny). I think you’ve ridden it, do you not agree?

[@bradsanders6954]

I can remember last time you guys did the alloy/carbon thing. It kinda seems like were at a dead end for new subjects to do with E bikes? There's always the low power/light weight E vs Full Power/full weight E. My bike is carbon, a basic outdated Canyon Spectral ON. It rips!

[@plokmko0]

Alloy all day everyday !!! If you had a CF handlebar snap on you may change your opinion ... 😬 Titanium full sus ZF motor ebike would be the dream

[@bradsanders6954]

Aluminum only has so many wear cycles, it gets brittle and SNAP! Down the trail you go @ 30mph dragging the old face in the dirt. Dont say you werent told!

[@thim8009]

I think the geo and components are more important than frame material. I have an alloy levo and a carbon decoy. Not only does the levo weigh less, I feel more confident jumping on it.

[@jimbo4203]

I broke my last carbon Cross country bike , so I bought a aluminum ebike and after riding it for a few years, I now know that carbon is not needed in a ebike 😊

[@bradsanders6954]

I hate to say it, but Aluminum breaks also. Cant be fixed, its heat treated its a throw away. Amazing how many dont know this.

[@siriosstar4789]

Aluminum generally won't break if you avoid huge drops .

[@jimbo4203]

Everything breaks , lol 😭 I've broke steel frames too

[@siriosstar4789]

@jimbo yes but what were you doing when that steel frame broke 😎

[@jimbo4203]

@@siriosstar4789 we used to break it all BMX riding , my comment was for the hate to say it guy , I agree with what you said totally

[@sandywatson1082]

I think the derisions for many buyers is down to brand, component's and cost, materials would be down the list for choosing a emtb. where it may be higher for a mtb.

[@romma11]

I think problem with carbon is parts where you need to fasten something - bottom bracket, wheels, disc calipers,... All these points are either with metal inserts or carbon with threads/holes and all these points are very touchy to potentially break. Second concern fpr me is hand made - you can be unlucky and get frame with some weakness

[@1972mdc]

Fun fact - Amish (that I’ve met) can have electric just not bought from the power company (generators, solar, etc). They have rules that don’t make sense and change all the time…

[@simonr23]

Alloy is best. If you're racing and get a free bike each weekend - go carbon, if you want light weight. For every other reason though, get alloy. signed - an owner of 2 carbon emtb's :(

[@ryanj9245]

Aluminum all day long! I am just not a fan of carbon fiber frames, I do like carbon fiber handlebars.

[@flintridgedesigninc.1351]

I ride dirt bikes, and I'm looking at the Intense Tazer MX Carbon Pro $8900 list now $4800 and includes a bike rack, stand, full tool kit, and floor mat. There is not a lot of info regarding the frame performance. What's your take?

[@MrBazsi888]

Carbon hates screws... thats their biggest weakness. Titanium for the win.

[@embn]

Titanium is great but not the cheapest! 💰

[@MrBazsi888]

@@embn We are talking about 10K average ebike prices... Ti alloy should be an option at that ridiculous costs. Carbon is hard to make properly. Aluminium is still too heavy for compensation battery + motor. Ti for the big win.

[@danielsimmonds5162]

Too many "Finbar Saunder's...." Moments Owen!! 😄😄

[@stevenreyes3680]

I see the Haoqi bike on line for $2399 in the US. A tad heavy. 2.8mm tires… Probably the bike I need to get some exercise….

[@stevenreyes3680]

Forgot. This bike at this price is a hundred dollars less than I got in my diy mid drive hardtail….

[@S14AA]

Is AMflow going to release an alloy ?

[@romma11]

Often enough i get rock strikes to frame during emtb rides, not sure how carbon would handle those. For non suspension road / gravel bike o think carbon is way to go. For fatigue concerns i would say suspension should take that concern to very low levels

[@kingerz]

Fully on alloy now.

[@embn]

Did you have carbon previously?

[@onecutmedia]

she's climbing Intestinal Fortiude in Squmaish but its vertical at the bottom and the top so I will go see if it's possible but I think not, just watched the edit, she has a tow rope

[@declanclegg12]

I have a carbon norco sight vlt c2 and i think after owning it im kinda on the fence as aluminum frames are alot stronger and cheaper

[@fernandom6811]

Is everyone waiting for The DJ bike to come out?

[@eBikerHowie]

Doesn't matter to me. Have had both. However, please get rid of the terrible background "music".

[@abeltasman7828]

I'm done after five hours up and down a mountain. My 625 Moustache has more power than I have

[@bruce.KAY-bike-drifter]

My reaction to your complex, theoretical discussion is, hey, what about us? What about ordinary consumers who have a limited budget. For a start, we don’t get to play with umpteen different brands and designs to feel the variety. We also need our bikes to last for a few years before we can afford to upgrade. We need our bike frames to be durable. One concern about carbon frames and other high-tech composite materials is will they last? Will they suddenly fail? Before we spend our limited funds, how can we be certain we are investing in an eMTB that will survive a few years rigorous abuse?

[@bindipper018]

Why do so many carbon frames break, crack. Are they made too light thin to accept the pressure work required on the ebikes

[@danielmateusz9293]

alu bikes all the way....got both carbon and alu

[@islandaerial3414]

Wake me when they make a 'bullet proof' carbon frame... Until then, weight isn't an issue w/a 85 Nm DU and some nail polish

[@embn]

What's the nail polish for? 🤔

[@islandaerial3414]

@@embn Rock chips

[@pizza4921]

One thing no body is taking about is that 2kg when the bike weighs 26kg dousent do much, carbon vs alloy is almost pointless when the cost of a alloy is 1k less from mondraker and only weighs 2kg less

[@robhaskins3068]

If carbon was any good they would make aluminium from it and if aluminium was any good they would make steel from it but Unobtainium is the ducks guts. E=Mtb²

[@Mtb9r]

Alloy. Don’t think I trust carbon. I’m sure carbon is good. Personal preference.

[@hein_mcleod]

That Haoqui bike has horrible geometry. Look the the guy sitting on it, beach cruizer vibes 😂

[@Benjamin_Jehne]

There is still another elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about when it's about our toys that we love. It's the question of how environmental friendly are these carbon frames. Aluminium, no question - met it make a new one out of it. But carbon fibre!? These modern bikes will not get that old with all the tech inside, it's part of the game. Everyone wants the new stuff, or something get wrong with the frame and especially with carbon fibre frames these problems are more normal. You can do nothing and so they get in the trash. Today you can burn it, ore someone will tell you, that there are some possiblities to recycle the material, but no one would care about those small frames, they look for nice big parts. At the end, these frames are a problem and the question is, is my personal pleasure worth it, to produce this hazardous waste, or would an aluminium frame would do the same for the hobbyist.

[@kentnilsson9757]

I you indended to by a bike. First of all. For What and How are you intended to use the bike🤔. Buy the RIGHT size on the bike, by expire the test ride from a SHORT stam (if the salesman say that you can put a longer stam/ you "need" a longer stam = the bike is to small). Don't buy a Carbon bike if you don't know the reason for that, put your money instead on god suspension. Learn how to adjust the suspension and the pressure in your tire. It's better with a hardtail with bigger tire and the right tire pressure, than a full suspension bike with bad adjust, bad suspension. Put the money on better spec instead. Then IF you knew WHY you gona by a carbon bike, buy a bike from someone hwo can build carbon frames😘. I have 5 wonderful, full spec, full carbon bikes, of which 3 is low power Emtb's and built to be Enduro. 1 Trail and 1 Enduro. I now tryed a full power 85Nm Aluminium Yamaha moro witch had nice geometry and price, that I rebuilt to Marvic mullet, Öhlin RXF36 170mm fork, fox factory coil ect. This 85Nm bike/Iron horse is nothing for me, when this is not my type of riding style😋

[@CyclingAdventuresUK]

A classic Jimmy Waffle On!

[@jamesdorsijiuhjuh6151]

Why the music? Horrible!

[@MTBPerspective]

For full suspension mtb/emtb I suspect it makes very minimal (if any) functional difference by the time you have low pressure tires and air shocks front/rear. If you are talking road bikes or even hard tail mtb, different conversation entirely - kind of like my 2 road bikes, one is 853 steel and fantastic for long training rides vs my alu road bike that is much better for crits and sprinting. For eMTB I would say buy what fits you best regardless of material and I would strongly discourage an eMTB hard tail since the unsuspended weight is a miserable experience on actual mtb trails.

[@MrBazsi888]

Yes, and much harder hits on non-full suspension frames.

[@Shawn-in-da-Canyon]

Always a full face helmet. They are so light and cool to wear these days, there’s no reason not to wear one. Learn a lesson from me. I’ve had a total of 18 hours of surgery to my face because I didn’t wear a full face helmet.

[@bruce.KAY-bike-drifter]

Good advice about the full face helmet. Unfortunately for me the rocks I landed on protruded into the mouth and eyes opening of my full face helmet. So I too ended up in surgery. I now have titanium straps holding my jaw and eye socket together. Luckily I was wearing a mouth guard. The surgeons that saved my teeth. I now need specially made glasses to stop me seeing double 🤓 because one eye 👁️ is considerably lower than the other.

[@Shawn-in-da-Canyon]

@@bruce.KAY-bike-drifterOh, I’m sorry to hear that happened. No helmet is 100%. But a full face is the best you can do.

[@tbolende]

Steve is such a bore, at least if you come into a discussion with no actual curiosity at least bring a modicum of intelligence

[@embn]

What an outstanding word 'modicum'!

[@mustclime5311]

FOCK PLASTIC BIKES! Tired of waiting for replacement parts after they brake., one little stone kicked up and your bike is done.

[@dirtylaps]

burly

[@wm05eb]

I snapped my carbon enduro…. Got a replacement frame and that had a crack in the headset…. 🥹🔫