Aluminium Or Carbon Frames - What's The Difference?

[@gmbntech]

Are you riding a carbon or alloy bike? Was there any reason you chose one over the other?

[@floydblandston108]

In order of acceptability; Ti, Al *or* Fe. Cf is either for paid racers looking to shave grams (and who get their frames for free), or really sad posers.

[@thegreatseprano9918]

@@floydblandston108 Carbon shaves more than just grams my carbon Focus Jam 8.8 is more than a kilo lighter than the aluminum version (6.8) and they ride completely different, the carbon bike is a lot more nimble and fun. If you can afford it, carbon is completely worth it, titanium costs more for seemingly no benefit, steel is heavy and dated, and aluminum is just the affordable choice with a few compromises.

[@simonm1447]

Alloy for me. I do not need the lightest bike possible, and alloy frames had a long evolution and time to mature. Alloy is still used for the majority of airliners, so it can't be wrong for a bicycle.

[@jonm7272]

​@@thegreatseprano9918A whole kilo? Amazing, £1000s for the weight of a good breakfast!

[@chrissmith6650]

@@gmbntech I have a steel framed fixie an alloy fat bike and a trail bike also in alloy. I'd rather have the reliability of metals over carbon. Besides, I'm old school, I grew up on steel framed bikes.

[@Durwood71]

This guy is a terrific presenter. It's refreshing to see someone who can talk for minutes on end without the video having constant jump cuts throughout to cover a lack of eloquence.

[@StanislavNevyhosteny]

"Riding bikes is brilliant! Just get out and ride!" This is exactly the message we all shouid strive to convey to others.

[@letsgoletsgoletsgoletsgoletsgo]

after decades of slogging at work , i finally can afford a carbon fibre frame ,so i'm gonna enjoy it , and also the lifetime warranty and bearing replacement is great

[@JeffMTBinVA]

Which bike are you getting? I'm interested in the lifetime warranty and bearing replacement.

[@letsgoletsgoletsgoletsgoletsgo]

@@JeffMTBinVA Santa Cruz nomad sir , just the frame

[@VillenmerthAzul]

You get lifetime warranty on alloy frame too.

[@letsgoletsgoletsgoletsgoletsgo]

@@VillenmerthAzul I've ridden a bunch of alloy and steel bikes in the past, time for a change

[@CabbagePatchkid-r8e]

@letsgoletsgoletsgoletsgoletsgo you understand "lifetime" is not your lifetime, it is the "expected lifetime of the product", which some manufacturers will say is only 3-5 years

[@johnssmith4005]

Even though I don't like Carbon , I have to admit that the shapes and lines that can be achieved with carbon are much sexier , just look at that carbon Propain

[@GSNorrie]

Yeah, the lack of welds alone makes then look so slick. I still prefer to ride alloy though.

[@Spenwall]

Mondraker Foxy with the thin top tube looks so sick

[@GSNorrie]

@@Spenwall Yes! I think the Mondraker Superfoxy RR Carbon in black and yellow with Öhlins suspension is the best looking bike there is just now. The lines on the gap behind the head tube 😍

[@weird_world3289]

find Al frame , with smart wellding ..broh

[@boramutludogan3539]

Orbea alloy bikes looks like they are carbon because of their polishing process but I don't know how these polished welds hold up.

[@JMJM75257]

I reckon steel will start to become more popular especially for downhill bikes or the latest ebikes where weight is less an issue. The problem with carbon in mountain bikes is once youve crashed which is inevitable you can never trust the bike again. At least with somthing like steel you know itll bend before it breaks apart which imo will allow you to push things further with more trust in your bike. Id take a weight penalty for the piece of mind any day of the week!

[@dyslo9216]

Never wanted a carbon bike till I got one but, I have nothing against aluminum. Ride you want and enjoy it.

[@iansingleton]

Why can I listen to Owen for hours? 😂 He's got the Attenborough effect! I love aluminium bikes! I just know what getting! I recently watched a couple videos about bottom bracket & brake mount facing issues with carbon frames! Yes they can be sorted but very very rarely do you get issues like that with aluminium frames. And the old saying goes a good aluminium bike is always gonna be better than a bad carbon bike! There are lots of expensive bad carbon bikes out there. As for ride quality you can't tell. As a hobby cyclist you can not tell the difference! Thanks Owen 👍

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Greetings, Gee thank you that is exceedingly high praise! Hopefully the content impresses as much as the tone - again thanks for the inspiring feedback! Cheers Owen

[@iansingleton]

@@OwenBikeNerd my pleasure mate. Keep up the great work 👍

[@graham2167]

If you want to save weight then go on a diet

[@outbackwack368]

I only weigh 65 kg... any lower and my stamina starts to suffer... and prostate cancer doesn't help much... 😞

[@vashusan1984]

@@outbackwack368 Ha ha, I'm 62.5, any lighter and I'll float away....

[@snowstrobe]

Anyway, weight is not as important as resistence.

[@PeterCPRail8748]

Or buy an ebike,

[@drewsmith6066]

Agree ...go on a diet or stop eating the pies

[@krissk77]

Alloy frames... any time...my preference

[@bigb7422]

I have had two alloy frames crack at a weld from regular riding-lots of saddle time. Carbon and steel fine.

[@clawo7]

Have you tried out some carbon ones?

[@callaway5148]

I was going to get Al for my next bike, but the problem with companies that make both is you can't get an aluminum frame with the high-end build spec. So I just went carbon again.

[@OldManAzeban]

I had a carbon fiber frame fail. I’ve also had carbon fiber components fail. I only utilize carbon fiber stuff in non vital areas; levers, cages, spacers, and accessory mounts. I have trust issues with the material. I appreciate aluminum when it starts to go; it lets you know usually. Creaks, groans, and other sounds that are noticeable.

[@harrie205]

I ate a bad pizza so I stopped eating Italian food

[@OldManAzeban]

@@harrie205 Not the same false equivalency.

[@superlazy3355]

@@OldManAzeban I ate a bad clam so I stopped swimming in the sea

[@rooksfoot1184]

yep wise words...... u get time with a modern ally frame..when carbon goes..its instant

[@thegarageluthier]

I think if carbon frames can last through professional downhill races and red bull rampage then they are probably fine for normal folk. Plus F1 cars are made of carbon and drivers walk away from 200+mph crashes.

[@kaneda4102]

Seeing those uneven TIG welds triggers my ocd, there aren’t many manufacturers that do it well consistently.

[@snowstrobe]

They are just unforgivably bad, would never buy that bike. That said, I have seen bikes made with decent welding.

[@curtvaughan2836]

@@snowstrobe No one beat Klein for beautifully welded aluminum frames.

[@AliasHSW]

Love my 2001 Cannondale Terra, later renamed as the F300. People nowadays think the frame is C because all the welds are smoothed.

[@MsTatakai]

To me alloy! Aluminium or Steel is really cool to ride... Carbon is too expensive for a stiff ride and usually its better suited for road bikes and not mountain bike...

[@SylvainProov]

Carbon are not stiff, they flex more. My SCOR 4060 is a loooooooot more comfortable than a Commencal Clash i tried recently

[@chimpornator]

Carbon is far more repairable than many give it credit. I repaired my own frame - the downtube was cracked and delaminated over a 10cm by 5cm patch from a rock strike. Full break in the seat stay too. 5 years on from that repair and it's as strong as it was new. You can snap a tube in half and repair it safely, with the know how to do so. If you have CF damage definitely look for a repairer before you decide to scrap a bike.

[@Barryens]

You didn't mention abrasion resistance. I have seen mud wear through chain stays on carbon CX bikes. (Trek Boone).

[@sicklygazelle]

Carbon bikes are handmade, repairable, snappier, have damping properties, and are lighter. any crash that will crack carbon will damage aluminum the same. Its wild that the boogeyman effect of "carbon cracks" has lasted for 20 years when carbon wasnt great. id rather have a bike i can repair versus one that becomes wall art after damage.

[@filipvaclavovsky7405]

I have seen my buddy cracking carbon frame seat tube just from jibbing on parking lot. (Kona process) I had the same bike but alloy, mine was tank, but i threw it everywhere with peace of mind. There are no carbon BMX bikes. If you like to jibb a little bit, go alloy.

[@sihilius]

Keep in mind that "hand made" in this case means a lot of chemical fumes.

[@ericfroehlich976]

I think it depends a little on the manufacturer. I just ordered an alloy Orbea Occam sl and it's almost indistinguishable from other brands carbon frames.

[@lightningshredder5605]

Only steel for me. Single pivot no linkage coil sprung pogo-sled. It's like an old Volvo. Simple, strong, stylish and can still shred!

[@floydblandston108]

Those old Brooklyn Machine Works downhillers are still in use every season.

[@lightningshredder5605]

@@floydblandston108 hell yeah!

[@RoCCo_CarmeLL]

Bit yet breakable. Alu 6051 is best

[@floydblandston108]

@@RoCCo_CarmeLL - do you mean 6061?

[@RoCCo_CarmeLL]

@@floydblandston108 yes

[@snowstrobe]

Thanks, that was really interesting, great run through of all the various factors. For me then, the recyclability is the deciding factor.

[@crankshoptv]

When zipping down a trail, I prefer a "DING" to a "THWACK" So it's alloy for me.

[@blakekennard7700]

It might also depend on where you ride too. If you’re laying the bike down often and ride chunky rocks then maybe go alloy. And what is an average lead time on a carbon frame fix/cost to ship to whomever can do it. I do love the look of both. Alloy frames can have great tubing profiles and those awesome welds, but the seamlessness of a carbon frame is gorgeous. Personally I’m an alloy frame guy but I wouldn’t say no to some nice carbon wheels lol.

[@johnf3326]

I'd trust metal more than carbon and its cheaper. Weight saving minimal

[@dr.science_0177]

Agreed. Unless its a road bike, carbon arent that great

[@SonnyDarvish]

@@dr.science_0177 Yes, weight savings are huge. But even on road bikes, carbon is great for sprinting and racing. I had both and I'd be happy with any metal for endurance rides.

[@Nihlink]

It’s stronger against expected forces. But it’s fucked if you wrap it around a tree

[@jcheco59]

Waited to find the difference of weight in between, which I understand is minimal. 😊😊

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thanks for holding out - the weight difference is small - the bikes weren't precisely the same in spec - subtle differences - so the carbon did have slightly large tyres - so it most likely can be built lighter again! Again thanks for watching it all! Cheers Owen

[@ItsMeHammie]

I rode an Ibis Ripmo AF for 2 seasons. Loved it so much I bought the Ibis Ripmo V2. There was an immediate difference in feeling. The carbon V2 was much livelier and more fun on trail. However I still feel like the AF was more fun on the downhill thanks to the weight which makes it feel very planted. My conclusion aluminum for downhill and carbon for trail days.

[@David-bw7is]

It all came down to price for me, I was looking for a new bike, and then an Intense full Carbon bike came up for sale with literally the same geometry as the aluminium bike I had my eye on, but in the sale the Carbon bike was slightly cheaper than the Aluminium, so grabbed the carbon and that was it. Haven't regretted my decision in 2 years. :-)

[@ShadLife]

I ride a carbon full suspension frame, but my hardtails are either steel or titanium. I will not ride a carbon hardtail or carbon bars. To me, with suspension it takes the abuse out of the frame so carbon can last. I really don't like aluminum frames, with a few exceptions, because they tend to ride too stiff and feel harsh on my body, especially if it's a hardtail.

[@erghjunk]

The Tyee is a great bike to discuss this since you can build one on their website and clearly see what the cheaper alloy frame allows you to upgrade in terms of parts for the same price as the basic spec carbon. $600 to spend on parts instead of the frame is nothing to sneeze at.

[@MrSponjaBob]

Exactly, focus on finding the right tires for the usual terrain you ride on and give your butt good support to be as comfortable as possible. Because that's what a bike represents, no matter the discipline: an enjoyable ride away from the daily routine.

[@Emtbtoday]

My new ebike has the front Carbon triangle and rear alloy triangle and im loving it! Because im a heavier rider i was getting alot flex in the carbon rear ends stays, so went for one cubes new stereo 2024 action team 160 and it's an amazing good bike so underrated! Feels so good its perfect for me and my needs! the new 155 with the rear carbon triangle my mate has flexs like mad with the carbon rear end and the trek slash 9.9 my other mate has but does this with him at 170lbs! I went new it's alot but with being carbon I just wouldn't buy a used carbon bike! I have a long frame warranty and frame insurance so nothing really to worry about when if comes to damage but I look after my belongings and don't give them a pounding they don't deserve I was an EX local DH racer in my teens and 20s here im 39 now so not to bothered about ripping up the trails these days just a nice bike to play about on and get fitter before comes to late 😂

[@jduarte1506]

Excellent video, I am between three bikes after analyzing several bikes, Commencal 365 signature, Marin Headlands 2 and the Triban 900 titanium from Dechatlon, which would be the best bike, the Commencal aluminum frame, best components, the Marin carbon frame, worst components, the Triban titanium frame, worst components, lifetime warranty on the frame, which would be the best, the Commencal frame is a high quality aluminum, the Marin carbon with its own design, the Triban high design on the frame

[@letour32rr]

Alloy for me. Carbon is stronger than alloy in most cases for the forces a frame is designed to handle when ridden properly. But rock gardens and crashes tent to find those forces a carbon frame wasn’t DESIGNED to take, like a sharp point impact on the top tube while tumbling off the trail.

[@frits8986]

Pretty cool to see how far they’ve come with alu tube shaping if you compare it to the Klein’s from back in the day

[@Cassie_MTB]

Alloy... I love.the welding on my Nicolai. It's robust, simple and looks rad. I sometimes crash and I don't have to worry about my frame.

[@vidibites]

There was no mention of CNC or Hydro formed alloy or different grades of alloys. Again for Carbon you did touch on grades but what does this translate to in the real world, how do we know which is a higher grade. I’d like to see that covered here, otherwise super informative thanks.

[@tim__sadler]

#askgmbntech - Owen dropping a banger of a video! Great work team, perfect level of nerding out and entertainment. - on the topic of Carbon v Aluminium - I've said it before, but there will be a time in the future when we look back on our use of Carbon Fibre composite and feel very guilty about the negative environmental impact of using it in a sport which can only exist if we look to protect our wild places, rather than replacing them with landfill (and yes I own Carbon frames and components...but prefer Aluminium these days).

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Ooft - gee thank you - much appreciated - yeah the creator team behind the scenes worked super hard to get this out! Cheers Owen

[@jontoad]

I have an alloy 2019 Santa Cruz Bronson V3 and a carbon 2024 Pivot Shuttle LT ebike. I chose alloy for my Bronson and i have never regretted that choice. i like to ride stairs and urban structures sometimes. i thought one smack on a concrete structure and i would be finding out what a crash replacement carbon frame cost would be. plus alloy was cheaper. The Shuttle LT was on sale for almost half the price it was a couple of months ago, so carbon price wasn't as much of an issue for the ebike. none of the ebikes i wanted came in alloy and i didn't think i would be using it near hard structures as much so i wasn't afraid to go carbon on it. my previous bike was 1995 chromoly Schwinn Moab that survived my teen years, i restored it with modern components 5 years ago for a fun project and is still going to this day. lol.

[@gg.youlubeatube6249]

Hardtail carbon is noticeable vs alluminium, due to (properly designed) flexing rear triangle.

[@floydblandston108]

So are steel and Ti.

[@fudganuld]

It all comes down to COST and what you can afford...Simple..!!

[@jonm7272]

Not so simple, I can afford a carbon bike, did buy one, didn't like it, went back to alloy.

[@DCM777.]

As a TIG Welder i see so many bad welds on Bicycles it's very disappointing to see!

[@PeterCPRail8748]

Mass production in Twainess, Chinese, Vietnamese sweat shops. What you expect. Now mostly robot welded in the Tawian factories. There is a reason North American chromoly or Titanium frames cost double that of Carbon. Hand built by craftsman of there craft.

[@DCM777.]

@@PeterCPRail8748 My Bicycle is hand build in the Netherlands from Reynolds 725 Heat-Treated Chrome-Moly Steel, don't want anything else and riding it for years now.

[@WR_tsez]

My bike is made of steel. It's pretty good and l have been riding it for 12 years. It may be a little bit heavy but it's worth it.

[@MichaelNicol-me8op]

I love my carbon cube one55 its an awesome bike

[@pgfyfe25]

My experience with carbon is that is has a far superior fatigue resistance than aluminum equivalent. I have had most of my aluminum bike’s fatigue crack after about 3 years of riding where the carbon bikes if they don’t have any bond defects in the first 6months have lasted 10 years or until you want a new wheel size or significant geometry update

[@semadragun]

@@pgfyfe25 Very interesting, but there are many alloys to choose from but I'm not doubting what you said . Hydro formed alloy frames are so strong but metals all vary. Would be great to see a rugged test of carbon vs the best alloy frame available

[@harrie205]

@@semadraguncfrp fatigue behaviour is far superior to aluminium alloys. That’s a known fact. No false ballance comparison test needed

[@semadragun]

@@harrie205 Fair enough, crazy how strong it is appreciate the reply.

[@JMJM75257]

Steel would be my choice of material, personally the piece of mind and better vibration damping/flex outweighs the weight penalty.

[@harrie205]

@@JMJM75257 steel has basicly no vibration damping(carbon has) and flex characteristics can be taylored in carbon to much higher degrees then metal. There are many wrong concepts of the materials going around (this video did not help).

[@NicolasCharretier]

Can’t say for sure for aluminium alloy, but industrials have access to high end welding robots. These have the one advantage that they repeat exactly the very same welds each and every repetition of their specified program.

[@lefthorse1]

That's was a pleasure to hear , every argument spot on .. and of course aluminium , just because of ductility , carbon its strong only in a tensile direction, its a major NO GO

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thanks, glad the video covered all perspective on the materials - I did dive deep into researching it! Cheers Owen

[@harrie205]

Carbon has also far superior compressive strength to aluminium

[@Magoo71]

Hey Owen....how the hell are you??? I had a great Steel Mt Bike made by Chris Chance in the late 80's the bikes name was FAT CHANCE....it was one my most favorite bikes..it was a Hardtail...White with Black Splatter! Wish we could post photos here...

[@Shredtheridge]

I've rode both and I like them both equally

[@Chrisaleit]

How long does a alu frame last and how long does a carbon frame last? witch one breaks faster at a crash?

[@bigb7422]

I have had two aluminum frames fail at a weld from lots of use. Carbon and steel frames still going strong.

[@50centHotDog]

I second that. Me and my friend both got a Bronson around the same time. Me carbon, him alu. His chain stay cracked on a weld a couple years ago. Mines still going strong.

[@VaclavSir]

Alloy wins in almost every aspect. It's harder to damage, but easier to spot the damage. It's heavier, but whether the weight of you + your bike is 90 or 90.5 kg, that's not a difference worth the extra 600 GBP. The carbon frame looks nicer, but again, not 600 GBP nicer. The difference while driving is too subtle to notice. All things considered, the alloy is the superior material for an average amateur mountain biker.

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

Key word amateur. Absolutely. I agree there's no reason to be using carbon That's an amateur... Once you're getting competitive or really pushing it on the style and fun, That's when you start to notice differences. 💪🏻

[@simonm1447]

​@@JoeIsCrazyWillmanregarding the amateur vs professional - be honest: how many mountainbikers are really good enough to be considered professional? You see a lot of carbon bikes in bike parks but very few riders have the skills to be really considered professional.

[@plainuser48596]

You were doing so well and at the end to say something like that.. arguing about grips and saddles is more pointless than arguing about frame material. These are contact points and are both personal preference and related to ones anatomy. Still nice and informative video

[@krzysiu4003]

It's the heat affected zone around the weld that is the weak point. Not really the tube.

[@matpio7]

Correct, but aren't all alu frames going into post welding heat treatment, to bing heat affected zone back to T6 state?

[@berschte]

What kind of material is ridden in Tour de France or mtb world cup or cyclo cross World Cup?

[@simonm1447]

There are Aluminium bikes in the DH Worldcup. Of course professional road bikes where the criteria weight, aero and stiffness are important are carbon fiber now, but these bikes are sponsored anyways and most of the bike has to be made from carbon to be that light.

[@_TheDeanMachine]

Would shuttling a Carbon bike on tailgate pad cause delimitation over time??

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

I would assume so. Invest in a proper hitch rack instead

[@thegarageluthier]

Haha no. Done it for over a decade.

[@drill_fiend1097]

I think nothing beats CroMo or Titanium when it comes to MTBs. While people think Carbon might catastrophically fail, Aluminum Alloys can fail as well, and those Alu frames are brittle with low fatigue life compared to steel or Ti alloys. There are alu cracks that result in very sharp debris or breaks that can be pretty dangerous. Most carbon parts are good these days, although I would still be cautious about suspiciously cheap carbon frames on AliExpress (that's not saying all Chinese frames are bad, since some of them had been building frames for many big bike brands as OEM).

[@JGood-Quebec]

I ride an alloy FS MTB today and have a trailer hitch bike carrier that clamps down the top tube of the frame. The carrier manufacturer doesn’t recommend the carrier I have for carbon bikes. I would like to go carbon but see no reason to buy a new carrier. Is this still an issue for carbon bikes?

[@craigjensen321]

Great video really informative and well presented...

[@semadragun]

Those Propain bikes look awesome, the bike Owen is riding, is that their Trail version?😎

[@floydblandston108]

See the closed gusset on that seatpost? That right there is some hot garbage....

[@semadragun]

@@floydblandston108 Omg didn't notice that..damn.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

The Propain bike's in the video are the Enduro Model the TYEE - its available in Aluminium alloy or Carbon - so the choice is yours! Cheers Owen

[@semadragun]

@@OwenBikeNerd Ah appreciate the reply thanks Owen!

[@MaQuGo119]

Which one pollutes more?

[@_rhapsodist]

carbon!

[@stuartbarber7784]

Alloy for mtb Carbon for my Gravel / Road bike

[@DaMasterPNut]

I like my carbon Orbea hardtail ❤

[@Stockfish1511]

Have had various aluminium bikes all my life, now i own two Carbon bikes. Gen 5 Slash and gen 4 Rail. While aluminium have gone long way, i still think carbon is better. Its lighter, looks smoother and feels better. However people think its a big difference. We are talking about small difference. Mainly weight and looks imo. Also carbon being fragile is nonsense. Its tough as hell. People see couple of viral videos of carbon breaking think they break all the time and aluminum does not. Its just bs, aluminium breaks as much if not more.

[@dr.science_0177]

Carbon is strong in 1 direction but not all directions like aluminium. One wrong hit and it could shatter hard

[@Jean-jk4zv]

Had a cracked Carbon frame once. Never had a metal frame crack. Two of my bikes are Carbon nonetheless but I rarely take them on public transports or anywhere external shocks are going to happen.

[@yannhenriot2568]

I am still preferring aluminium because I am of this generation that carbon was for lighten the bike and so was fragile. … But I’ve been told now that carbon is used for the reactivity properties it offers rather than weight. And in fact if I evaluate my friends carbon bikes I do not found weight save versus mine.

[@allyw7405]

I’ve bent alloy bars and crashed steel frame out of alignment but having a carbon seatpost crumble under me was pretty sketchy.

[@dcv9460]

This is AWESOME! Thanks for the information 😎💯👍

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thank you - super pleased that you found informative! Cheers Owen

[@justinh7099]

Alu gang!

[@petersilie2432]

I absolutely prefer aluminium. But some very attractive frames are only available in carbon - especially on the lighter trail or XC end of the spectrum. I'd gladly take the weight penalty, but only if I get the same technical features of the frame.

[@oso_nomada]

0:42 the only difference is one will last forever under any and most riding situations, the other is carbon fever 🥵

[@TeoSluga]

Good presentation. I only have one remark. Carbon frame is stronger. That's not entirely true. You see, carbon material is stronger if you compare 2 materials of the same weight. If you compare frames where carbon frame is much lighter than an alloy frame, then carbon frame may not be stronger...

[@harrie205]

Wrong The carbon frames are always designed much stronger They are still lighter (They are not designed to be equally strong)

[@TeoSluga]

@@harrie205 you are so very wrong... My extremely strong hardtail ALU frame (designed for trail/enduro riding) weighs 2.3 kg. You want to try if the carbon 1 kg frame is stronger? Please come to my place, we will try it. But it's going to be a very expensive test, we will break that carbon immediately. And just to be clear, that particular frame I am using is not even the strongest one. There are stronger hardtail frames designed exclusively for hard offroad abuse.

[@harrie205]

@@TeoSluga im an engineer and know people who test frames for a living. Carbon is always stronger no bullshit no bro science and no "My extremely strong...." on the basis of trust me bro. If you want strength get carbon(would be hard to find a carbon trail/enduro hardtail(that is a niche) also full suspesnion helps a lot with durability

[@TeoSluga]

​​@@harrie205 you don't sound like an engineer. Engineers know that you need to compare materials of the same weight to establish the real differences. If you compare materials with different weight and shapes it gets more complicated. In cycling world, carbon frames are built much lighter with much less material than comparative alloy frames. Jan Tratnik broke handlebars on his TT bike in Paris Olympics a few days ago. Why do you think that happened? From your expert engineering knowledge? Because carbon is much stronger? No. Because in cycling world weight shaving is most important and handlebars they use are definitely not strong enough.

[@harrie205]

@@TeoSluga since you lack engineering insight I help you out a little bit. Comparing materials with each others does not make sense if we talk about products(meaning the end result of all factors(material, design, manufacturing, ….). You can google material properties (spec cheats from material manufacturers) and they will tell you nothing about the finished product. And the product(bike frame) in carbon are always designed significantly stronger then the aluminium ones(that’s a fact and not up to discussion) PS. One handlebar failing is not a case for anything to make conclusions from. PPS. ISO-4210 has stricter rules for composites then on Metalls (so the minimum to pass the norm has to be stronger but Mtb manufacturers exceed it anyway)

[@ryancull515]

I used to skate years ago. Had carbon skates and had plastic ones. The carbon ones never lasted half as long. Carbon can just not take the abuse other materials can. Don't get me wrong were so light but they don't have any flex or give like plastic or aluminium will. Cause of that i will always get aluminium.

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

There's different grades of carbon, and as he stated in the video, how it's laid makes a massive difference... Not just in the strand orientation, but how many layers... I bet those skates had barely two layers to em. Light, but weak. I bet they weren't a whole lot more expensive then the plastic ones... That would be a big telltale sign right there

[@ryancull515]

I can promise you they were more expensive. However it was just the boot with plastic parts still so you weren't slamming on the carbon. Ive tried a variety of carbon skates and could never take to them. It tarnished my view on carbon.

[@Nekovocal]

Me with a 90’s steel bike watching this video “uhm steel is an alloy of iron and carbon so is good right? Right!?😢”

[@johnssmith4005]

Talking about Metals , what ever happened to the Magnesium Super Alloy ? Allite's Super Magnesium was supposed to be the ultimate Alloy for the MTB industry , 50% lighter than titanium, 30% lighter than aluminum yet stiffer and stronger also has 20 x the shock absorption of Aluminium Alloy . The cherry on the cake is that Magnesium is extremely abundant

[@floydblandston108]

It's also flammable! 😃

[@andymiller8877]

And snaps

[@blakekennard7700]

It is mainly used in suspension now specifically fork lowers.

[@simonm1447]

Alloy frames are made industrially in automated production lines. These lines costed billions to build them. I can't say for sure if you could produce magnesium frames on these lines. The industry has experience now with alloy and carbon, while there is none with such magnesium alloys. So they will not simply switch materials if they do not have to.

[@BenJamin-ou7kd]

Ive had my carbon fiber bike for 5 years , havent had any issues. Cabt go back to a heavier bike anymore

[@ashrides8918]

Honestly no difference in riding feel to me other than when hiking with your bike carbon is easier to carry on your shoulder, it digs in less.

[@Timo-xk9sxghj]

600 quid difference, not 700. Still a sizeable chunk tho

[@marcusjohnson5412]

@@Timo-xk9sxghj the profit margin on aluminum is outrageous for that bike imo!

[@H3avyHaul3r]

will always go carbon…the “feel” of lightness under foot is for me

[@chrissmith6650]

The perfect mountain bike is the one you can risk riding after a big crash. That means alloy, steel, titanium or bricks.

[@blakekennard7700]

Hmmm bricks are gonna be brittle in a big crash though lol

[@chrissmith6650]

@@blakekennard7700 I guess 😂😂

[@harryv6752]

Brick it! 🤘😄🤘

[@blakekennard7700]

@funky-phantomwell a brick frame could make you faster downhill

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

Nah see, after a big crash, you're not going to be doing any riding for quite a while. 😂 Get that frame/crash insurance and don't worry about it

[@Titot182]

As a welding metallurgist who spent many a lunchtime afternoon looking at failed welds of a certain brand beginning with S, the moment you stick a stop start defect or undercut on any of your welds on a node, say chainstay, fatigue will propagate around the circumference of that tube. It's not a case of whether the material choice is intrinsicly good or bad, it's a case of quality control and making sure you reject the part. It was a bit of an "Epic" fail. I would wager that a greater proportion of the price for carbon fibre will be the number of hands and eyes your frame would have seen in Taiwan before it's been given the sign off, vs an aluminium alloy version of the same model of bike at the lower end of the range, by the same manufacturer. I've got a carbon Nukeproof giga whils the wife has a alloy mega, set up similarly (same-ish weights, similar-ish components and travel), and I'd say that the bike's chassis is the sum of its parts. I wouldn't consider either stiffer than the other or harsher, but both communicate what the front or back wheels are doing when riding down chundery tech at FoD.

[@PeterCPRail8748]

Hence why a properly manufactured, preped, heat treated, and welded metal will last for a hundred plus years for its intended purpose. Number one reason more and more aluminum frames are failing is hydrofroming your taking a standered 3/16th walled tube and thinning it by half in the stretching process. Weakening the shit out of it coupled with substandard welds and your riding on a ticking time bomb. Knolly and Banchee make the best best aluminum frames on the market because they both use thicker walled aluminum to start with and one has a double tube design with a wall of aluminum in the middle acting like an internal spin. Hence why most BC freeriders and big air junkies ride them, they are solid bikes.

[@Titot182]

@@PeterCPRail8748 It's a combination of both. Some of the welds I've seen had very obvious stop/starts, where fatigue cracks initiated from. Weld design and location against principal stresses being less than ideal also doesn't help. Sectional changes through hydroform, mated with less than optimal QC on wall thickness, like you say, combined with a friday afternoon welder's job, will land you in shit. I appreciate a good TIG weld or even a MIG/MAG weld that's blended in with good surface profile. Something that my stress analyst buddies can spaff over during their afternoon coffee sessions.

[@pabloest4805]

Excellent video

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thank you - glad you found it informative! Cheers Owen

[@jto-mtb]

#askgmbntech I am a bike nerd that builds bikes in my garage. I am converting one of my bikes to 1 X 12. Can I use the old 11 speed derailleur with a 12 speed shifter, cassette and chain?

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

No. Chains are cheap, so no reason to not change your chain. Also the shifting increments are different between an 11 and 12 speed, so you need to have a 12 speed shifter. 12 speeds especially are finicky. It's one of their downsides. Stick to an 11 speed or 12 speed. You can't intermix parts. Honestly I'd stay with 11 if you already have it. I have both, and I don't notice a difference. I'm never using my lowest or highest gears hardly ever anyways. Usually gears 3-9 are what I'm using on the trails. One bike I have is a 1x10spd and that did brilliantly as well for me, so if you're trying to save cost by mixing 11 & 12spd stuff, stick to a 1x10 or 1x11 full setup. That'll be cheaper than a full 1x12 conversion.

[@dumber-plumber7253]

When you ride mtb a long time, and you are over the phase “i need a carbon bike because its fancy, expensive, light and the real deal” you start to see frames as workhorses that takes a lot of abuse. Enduro bikes with intensive riding all get problems after 3-5 years. Alu cracks ,. carbon wears out at bearing points/ cracks also etc etc. I dont see the point of buying a carbon 7000€ bike when you almost get the same spec with a 5000€ alu bike. have equal fun and be just as fast on the trail🤔 alu with a nice spec is for me the way to go… carbon is excellent for road bikes, but in my opinion its just the industrie pushing all those fancy carbon mtb bikes through our troat…

[@harrie205]

For me carbon But there are more important factors Like how well is the frame designed (carbon has much higher potential but is also harder to engineer) I would prefer a well designed/made al frame over a bad carbon frame 14:00 repairing carbon frames like this I highly dangerous! Don’t bee fooled by carbon “experts “ and nice paint jobs

[@christhepatriot4621]

Like the look of carbon but the durability of alloy is the best!

[@harrie205]

Modern carbon frames outlast aluminium ones

[@JamesParus]

Carbon is harder to recycle. Bad for people that manufacture it. Carbon fibers and epoxy. Both nasty stuff new or used.

[@HUKIT.]

I’m going to just assume that you don’t drive, fly, use your kitchen stove, air conditioning, and I can go on and on. Spare me the carbon fiber is bad nonsense..

[@joeroche552]

@@HUKIT.give over dude it isn’t all or nothing, just because someone is environmental minded doesn’t mean they have to live in a cave and not produce any CO2 it’s about making the choices that you can and want to do, we don’t all need to be Greta

[@kyletriesfitness500]

I like the idea of having hybrid bikes like what specialized is doing on their prototype dh bikes with carbon tubes and machined ali lugs

[@PuffinPass]

Steel hardtail currently but in all honesty I own 2 carbon bikes and they are probably the last carbon frames I will own for the foreseeable future. I honestly am not a fan of paying the premium for the frame material while getting juiced for the component package.

[@JeffMTBinVA]

AL hardtail, carbon full sus, when I get a DH bike it will be AL, if I ever get an enduro well that will be a tough one 🤔

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Hopefully this video has helped give you some fresh insights - on which material for that Enduro bike! Cheers Owen

[@rataflas]

I was all about ALU frames....until I suffered a catastrophic failure from a weld....yup, how can you trust the weld has no air bubbles don't know. Carbon only now

[@ashchbkv6965]

i really hate that Al is called alloy, because Ti frames are also alloy, steel frames are also alloy. people need to know the real meaning of alloy

[@legionnair23]

Always aluminum, eventually these bikes will meet its end and you cannot recycle carbon

[@castortoutnu]

Making something from recyclable material is irrelevant. Make it from recycled material.

[@phill5917]

Alloy all day. I wouldn’t trust carbon. Seen too many videos of carbon frames cracking.

[@rockyhudson]

Wipe, clean, repeat...

[@davids.6671]

Dont care the material. Frame must fit in first order. Second order choose perfect material for your design. Currently i have aluminium carbon and steel frame. Everthing has its own advantages and disadvantages.

[@andrewbrown8927]

I do not understand why everyone says carbon is easy to repair. It is not easier than aluminum. I've welded many frames and frames of friends. There is usually a welding company in every town. Finding a company that does carbon fiber is not as easy. This has become a talking point that is false.

[@stevensmith9895]

Alloy here, i'm on an ebike, so doesn't matter to me, but in saying that just been through the process of getting a carbon bike fixed after a minor but sharp hit to a carbon frame... not expensive but wouldn't have happened on an alloy frame

[@bobcabot]

...Titan!

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thats a discussion for another video! Is Titanium truely the Metal of the gods - as its name suggests ? Watch this space! Cheers Owen

[@simonm1447]

​@@OwenBikeNerdtitanium is light but offers the strength of steel. However working with Titanium is hard and not simple mass production unlike with Aluminium, and it seems the hand made frames can crack at the welds if the welder does not deliver a perfect job.

[@Alan-75]

Aluminium all day long. Can't stand carbon frames.

[@MrAdz91]

Why can't you stand them though?

[@dr.science_0177]

​@@MrAdz91 Too stiff. Doesn't absorb shocks quite as good as aluminium, steel and titanium. It's good for road bikes but not good for mountain or off road bikes

[@Velo1010]

Same here.

[@morganwilliams2863]

​@@MrAdz91 delicate, perfect for road bikes but not for MTB unless your a pro.

[@Pachoslavus]

You may need to install a bike stand.

[@martinkrcma7048]

Density of the material doesn't actually matter, the important measure is the strength/weight ratio, and modern steel beats aluminium easily. The issue is that you cannot easily shape it, same as titanium, and the big brands don't want to sell bikes from bent round tubes - because people won't see the value I think.

[@simonm1447]

Alloy frames offer incredible stiffness, since you can make the tubing big in diameter without getting a very thin tube. Also you can make various shapes with hydro forming. Steel has 3 times the density, so the same big diameter tubes would only have 1/3rd of the wall thickness which may become a problem. A tube with a smaller diameter however can't offer the same stiffness.

[@harrie205]

Density matters very much. Cause a strong enough high strength steel structure gets pretty thin walls and is prone to buckling Here comes aluminium……. Also google second Moment of area

[@rumberitoboricua]

Difference, $1000