Embracing an Alternative Orthodoxy - Richard Rohr on the Legacy of St. Francis

Embracing an Alternative Orthodoxy is an adult study for churches. Embracing Series of small-group resources are published by Morehouse Education Resources, a division of Church Publishing Incorporated.
Embracing an Alternative Orthodoxy features well-known author, speaker, and workshop leader Fr. Richard Rohr. This and all Embracing Series studies include a Small-Group DVD for the class and a Participant's Workbook for all group members and leader.
For more information on this and other Embracing studies, visit www.ChurchPublishing.org/embra...
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[@ragnarrthorsen2792]

This is exactly what I needed to hear. Union and non attachment. This had so bolstered my love and faith. I have a Franciscan heart. Thanks.

[@ronniesmith8167]

Thank God for Richard Rohr! This is the story of the God I believe in - the God and Father of our Saviour and Redeemer, Jesus the Christ - where God gave God's-Self - not requiring our sacrifice. This really is a Transformation, rather than a Transaction! Glory be to God! No longer God's Wrath. Rather, God's LOVE is the answer.

[@peterraymond1853]

Yes indeed.. Easy to get lost

[@duncescotus2342]

Ok, yes, that's the character of God, BUT salvation is vested solely in the name of the Son (Jesus). No one is save by monotheism. No one is saved by trusting in the Spirit (a la Quakerism). The reason is that the Holy Spirit is given to testify to the Son. He will not "speak of his own accord." (John 16:13). We want to blow out the Christian tent as wide as possible, but there's a limit to what is in fact orthodox (of right praise).

[@kevingreaux7133]

God's wrath is real, as real as His love. Those who have been saved by Jesus Christ have been saved from God's wrath, judgement, sin, death, hell , and the grave. Those who haven't been saved by Jesus Christ are under God's wrath and judgement. This is what God's word in the bible clearly says.

[@susanskelly7312]

God has sent us God's new messenger.

[@juanitavillaloos8923]

I totally agree and pray the Spirit to open not only our head but our hearts!!! Love is God

[@duncescotus2342]

No, sister Juanita. English is not Latin. God is love. (Subject verb predicate). And he who lives in love lives in God. But we cannot deify anything, not even love. In other words, we have to maintain the theological distinction between being of identity and being of predication. Hope that's clearer than a latte.

[@jessewallace12able]

I am so glad for this.

[@debbiezenaida]

Fr. Rohr is BRILLIANT.

[@peggyharris3815]

So happy he mentioned René Girard.

[@romoromo6322]

At one. I LOVE that!

[@terriyancey4201]

Thank you for your insight and wisdom

[@CaroleAnneHochstetler]

(start at 4:05 in timing) This lesson teaches so many key elements from the writings of Richard Rohr. Spiritual truths which I received easily. Delightful Franciscan Priest, Richard Rohr is fast becoming my favorite spiritual teacher.

[@janeteaton3240]

Carole Anne Hochstetler Jesus should be your teacher , not a man full pride in his own teaching .

[@willroach8443]

Amen Carol!

[@raulbaquero5081]

@@janeteaton3240 thank you Janet, Plain Truth !, Carol must be carefull with she is reading...is not what anyone said but what the TEACHING OF THE CHURCH said for over 2,000 yrs .Ave Maria IMMACULATE !!! .

[@ademiranda2]

@@janeteaton3240 he is anything but prideful! Look up the etimology of the word teacher. You do not know what it means, apparently.

[@kevinrombouts3027]

A great forum. Excellent explanation from Richard. Thanks so much. Will use this with family and friends.

[@theguyver4934]

One question aren't you afraid that the legacy of Christianity (creed of Jesus and his apostles) will not last forever or that Islam will take over aren't you ever in doubt's

[@shirleywestbury3175]

Magnificent to COME into so many new insights!!! THANK YOU AND RICHARD ROHR AND ALL THOSE WHO COMMENTED!!!! Enlightening, INDEED!!!! And thanks to my nephew Adam Westbury who first told me about Richard Rohr!! Blessings everyone!!

[@celineghiara9674]

I am always spellbound when Fr. Richard speaks. He speaks so wonderfully and opens the heart and mind of people who are listening to him. My life is changed so much for the better after I came to know Richard, listening to him and reading his books.🙏🙏

[@idajane1974]

I really wish that those listening to Richard ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS the deeper meaning that he is saying. With the world going the way it is going, I certain that many DO NOT

[@lastwaltz86]

Exactly. Unfortunately, there are many judgemental Christians among us, the same condition we see in Jesus' era, before it, and until now

[@hermangross8603]

thank you for that Sydney Orr.

[@brandydinsmore8214]

Love the opening music!

[@porkyo123]

I have a 1/2 dozen of Father Rhor's tapes & Cdzzzzz. But, I think sometime he gets carried away.I just pick the bones.

[@smarguello4891]

Absolutely brilliant!

[@jeziscricket4448]

2 Thessalonians 3:14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter, in order that they may feel ashamed.

[@cherylmburton5577]

Amen!

[@secretscribe2587]

This makes sense to me. There were always some people in the Church who really and honestly understood God.... But they were not in the majority, hahaha.

[@jhgosnell]

Some people need a more traditional or fundamentalist approach to begin with, most of the basics are good. But, we can move on from there too...there are rational views, intuitive ones and deeper mystical realizations. The Holy Spirit is always pulling us towards God and it may take various forms...

[@janeteaton3240]

jhgosnell There are no deeper mystical truths , all that we need to know God and to live a Godly life is found in the scripture , the word of God!

[@karink299]

Where can I buy this DVD in the UK?

[@williamcanatsey]

I share the Franciscan perspective.

[@KingdomUploader]

So, between the four major views of the atonement, are you all saying that we should Embrace the "Christus Victor" view?

[@GregoryMichaelKlein]

I agree with 90% of what Rohr says. I would though, use his own language and say "not either but both" regarding a few of his points. For example, where Rohr says that the atonement was "transformational not transactional", I would say that it is actually both. Transformation, by its very nature, requires something to die that something may be born. In other words, a transaction occurs so that the transformation can take place. Jesus dies so that the Christ spirit may be born into the world. And what is the Christ spirit but the light of understanding regarding the redemptive power of sacrificial love? For me, it is primarily in this sense that "Jesus dies for our sins and we are washed by his blood". Also, while there is a recognition that blood sacrifice occurred in nearly every ancient primitive culture, there seems to be a lack of modern mystical understanding regarding the significance of blood itself. The historic time of "blood sacrifice" seems to have been a required stage in human evolution (thankfully, no longer needed). Blood is the carrier of the life force. It is through the blood that the life of the spirit is carried to successive generations to manifest souls within the world through time, bringing the eternal into the temporal. Even semen was known as the "cream of the blood" to the ancients with a magical/mystical understanding. Blood is life and is thus light and love. These are one. Love is the very nature of real life, eternal life. Love is the only thing eternal. Thus, the very nature of eternal life is love. Jesus, as the central incarnation of the cosmic Christ (the one begotten "Son of God") within the temporal at the crux of time and civilization, allowed the eternal to enter into the temporal through this life blood. The playing-out of this drama was necessary as the blood, as a carrier of the life of the eternal within the temporal, brought also the light of understanding regarding its redemptive power. When Rohr says that "reality requires it", this is the same as saying "God" requires it. Indeed, Buddhists recognize God as the ground of being or ultimate reality. They are the same "thing". "Sin" *does* cause a separation from the oneness of heaven (unity love consciousness) because of its separative affect on consciousness (guilt). Therefore, a sacrifice *was* necessary but, as Rohr says, it was necessary, really, to change the minds of wo/man regarding the Being of Eternal Truth (God). I agree with Rohr that this reality template was there from the beginning of time and plays-out constantly within the temporal, but it played-out most centrally and powerfully, within recorded human history, in the life of Jesus. We are all sons and daughters of "God" and, thus, potential Christs (once unity love consciousness is real-i-zed). Back to the blood... Even satanists are convinced of the power of blood but, like nearly everything with satanists, they invert and pervert its function. I mention this only to make a further point. Rohr mentions the evolving doctrine of "ransom". First, Christians were told that this ransom must be paid to the devil (esoterically, the ego fused with wo/man's most base desires). Next, Christians were told that the ransom must be paid to "God" (esoterically, the Eternal One of Whom we are all part in the spirit, our truest selves). Both are parts of ourselves (though, as individuals, we are not *the* God) which suggests that, on another level, we ourselves are the ones requiring the ransom. The constant is the belief that blood is required (the eternal must be brought physically into the temporal). Rohr is doing a great service to Christendom by speaking of the Christ myth (not fiction) in terms of consciousness. I would maintain though, that this story must remain grounded in the magical/mystical understanding of the former age (while yet taking flight in the understandings of the dawning age) and that the importance of the physical blood entering into the world is its most critical element. It is this element that distinguishes the Christ story from the somewhat similar myths of dying and rising Gods that were circulating within the world before the time of Jesus. Jesus grounded the truths of these Pagan myths into the world through His incarnation. He not only fulfilled Judaic law, He opened the Pagan mysteries to all -- and His very real blood brought these mythological truths into the manifest world, giving the Christ story its real redemptive power toward consciously realized at-one-ment. It may or may not be necessary to believe in the historical Jesus (I don't know) in order to receive this atonement, but it absolutely necessary to believe in the redemptive power of sacrificial love, as Jesus demonstrated (I believe), and give oneself over to it, for it is the Beingness of Unity Love Consciousness (Christ, by whatever name) that gifts the at-one-ment. The separative ego, with this intention and attention, may then die upon an internal cross, inside the heart, where eternity transects time and space, allowing redemptive love to flow through the blood and blossom as a rose, withing the heart, that concurrently regenerates the temporal life (of the ego) with the Eternal Life (of Christ/Oneness/God/Spirit/Love).

[@patrickpowers4779]

Thank you for all your work in sharing yet another facet of the dialogue!

[@riaanvanzyl2275]

I know my reply is five years light but thanks a million for this insight!

[@giuliabastoni2453]

Restorative justice and retributive justice are both aspects of the atonement. Without the atonement there is no Union with God becasue Union with God demands retribution and restores as a result. St. Francis said it, St Teresa of Avila said it, St Catherine of Sienna said it. The atonement happened through the will of God. Jesus saying 'yes' to His father (whom I regard as His higher self if I'm considering His condition as a human.) So much of what Richard Rohr says is so right but he builds on the sand if he says Jesus din't have to die in order to create restoration, redemption and transformation for us. It may be the allurement of the mind and the unwillingness to enter into the courage required in order to enter into the light, I am not sure what it is, but some of the things he says are really disturbing because they ultimately mean the difference between entering into eternity into glory at death and not. Not trying to be superior or anything but keeping in that paradigm created by Moses at the start. The thread of the importance of the blood sacrifice goes right through time, in both the OT and the NT. I sit in the congregation and work as a Deacon (looking after budget and toilet paper) but I am forgiven and I enter into Union with God, into His Holy of Holies, only through His blood. His light would be too much if not for the sacrifice. Indeed, it is still too much at times. Nothing to do with what I've done but what he's done and my receiving it. The transformation process ,through my repentance, recognises initially, that I am unworthy, then, that He has made me worthy (justification), then, that He is transforming me through His blood that He shed by His will (sanctification.) Only He is worthy of the honour as a result. Not me, not Richard Rohr, not anyone else. The difference between entering the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies is huge and it depends on the blood of Christ willingly shed for me and you in order to appease the anger of God towards my (Adam's) disobedience. Even if my only disobedient act was being born from Adam, who sinned. The Adamic nature is inherited, as is the Christ nature, through the atoning act (Romans.) BTW I am far from the conservative Christian who has been coddled all their life. You would be shocked/repulsed in the learning of the time I spent and things I did in that time in order to find this conclusion, including drugs, sex, prison and plenty of pain. The journey continues but prophets are subject to prophets and if any man/woman goes off on his/her own accord she/he is a liar and is misled.

[@donlonpat]

Giulia Bastoni My understanding is that, it was not the will of the Father to spill blood, but the darkness of those surrounding Jesus that needed that parable played out. I think Richard said, reality required it to happen. Jesus walked into the shadow of death, so others can see the reality of "Be not afraid"; the death of body or of ego both bring fear that needs to be overcome.

[@giuliabastoni2453]

Jesus IS God. God came Himself to reconcile us and blood is important for that union. If we have no part of His blood we have no part in Him as life is in the blood.

[@ichthus1890]

Well said. In the O.T. it says there is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. And Paul said he would preach nothing but Christ crucified.

[@noreenfisher4356]

Wow.You have articulated what I believe so well.

[@janeteaton3240]

Giulia Bastoni He’s just very wrong ..

[@mstamper77]

Finally, a Catholic who talks sense. Didn't know any existed.

[@toocute2775]

You are an i diot

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

Mary Stamper He’s a heretic and new age guru passing off as a Franciscan friar.

[@metalcomposition]

Another point has intrigued me with regard to Martin Luther's breakthrough of "Justification by faith alone". Protestants will claim that this was the reclaiming of a true and saving faith. However, the very statement of "Justification by faith" implies that one's identity resides externally, or OUTSIDE of the mind, the ego, the conscience - side note: many Christians will say that the conscience is virtually synonymous with the Holy Spirit, which is not correct. So there is nothing inside of us by which we are in Union with the Divine, including anything decided on via one's own mind. Your Christ Identity is eternal, and by implication has no beginning or end, no cause. Additionally, we cannot anthropomorphize God because we want to be rightly justified in our deeds. Orthodox teaching states that God is absolute in all His attributes and indiscriminately so.

[@vaska1999]

"Orthodox teaching states that God is absolute in all His attributes and indiscriminately so." Could you elaborate on that. I don't quite understand what you mean.

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

Vaska X Tumir Read the scriptures (i.e. Catholic bible)

[@songofsunrise]

this feels like a really strange set-up - an interviewer, Richard and a few people in-between who are there to - nod along? fill the chairs?

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

We are all God!

[@joshuaforeman2611]

Starts 3:50

[@hermangross8603]

when Richard talks about " the great turnaround", and God (as it were) spilling blood to get to us ....... what does he mean? I honestly can't get my head around this. Thank you for any helping comments.

[@solomon6971]

As I understand what Richard is saying is we no longer need to spill blood to make ourselves superior, such as war. Instead God spills blood or becomes death to give an example of what we need to do with ourselves. So in other word we need to let the ego die, feel its nothingness, which can be felt as bloody death. But after the death of the ego there is a resurrection and in the resurrection there is no accomplishment or achievement. Instead all of existence in its light and darkness, life and death, surface and depth, Being and non-Being all become One, as this invisible Life. Everything just arises and disappears into a state of stillness and peace.

[@vaska1999]

Sounds like a certain strain of Hinduism, and like Taoism -- as well as Buddhism.

[@debbiezenaida]

WOW. Very good summation Sydney.

[@toocute2775]

@@vaska1999 that's not good.....boy oh boy when I dabbled in Hindu meditation an ugly Indian witch showed up! No thanks.

[@nakayembamalita5837]

This is the kind of philosophy apostle Paul warned about in colossians 2:8 please read there

[@deniskavanagh9174]

St. Paul spoke of the greatest of these is love in faith and hope. The idea of trying to understand the gospels through the lens of the jewish faith only left us with a dualistic answer of the scapegoat. Jesus dying for our sins a debt paid instead of the Atonement model which is a higher more perfect understanding.

[@theguyver4934]

Wait I'm confused what are you trying to say

[@giuliabastoni2453]

How is this the 'Legacy of St. Francis?

[@donlonpat]

Giulia Bastoni Father Richard Rohr has lived his life as a Franciscan priest; and it seems what he is saying is where the focus of Francis lay. Putting more focus on the three years Jesus spent in community and teaching the way to live, not just a focus on Holy week. Francis also had to go in a direction that put him outside the common practice of Catholic tradition of his city and the times he lived in.

[@Stereostupid]

Giulia Bastoni it’s referring to rhor himself being a Franciscan priest and continuing the ways of Francis not that this talk itself is about Francis 😂

[@toocute2775]

Amen sister

[@stephenfurlong7505]

At one ment

[@wesorphan7811]

If there's anything that could be said to be "sin" (missing the mark), perhaps it's our illusiory misidentification as separate selves. If that's the case, rather than atonement as a corrective, the only thing necessary is insight into our true nature (which has always been the case, though obscured by the belief to be separate) as the "Cosmic Christ," the Infinite and Eternal Source of All Experience. If there aren't two things there, there's no "me and Not-me," no "God and Not-God." And if that's true, it changes everything.

[@deniskavanagh9174]

If the basic concepts of Christianity does not rise above A tribe mentality and speak to higher concepts the trinity then It will devolve into the dualistic Rut it's been in since the middle of the 17th century and the 3 rd grade level of understanding of Christianity will fade away.

[@aisthpaoitht]

Rahner said the future Christian will be a mystic. It seems the only way.

[@raulbaquero5081]

Do anyone here know why I couldn't open this video ?

[@monikatrevors9914]

*Only 18* 👇👇👇 872891.loveisreal.ru

[@toocute2775]

Personally I like priests dressed as such😇....honestly I'm not fond of this priest , he does say some good tid bits though. I don't understand him overall. Yet God I experience through Christian Mysticism & am filled with bliss and The indwelling Trinity , known as Infused Contemplation , so You can follow traditional Catholicism & still experience God !!!.

[@Cos263]

Quid pro quo?! Oh, how that term has taken on such a new and terrifying dimension in the tRumpian age of post truth, anti-democracy, and deceit

[@CaliforniaForever]

No need to throw out regular atonement to see God as loving. Just because sin needed to be atoned for doesn't mean God is hateful, hating us and creation. Odd conclusion. I wish he'd back up what he says with objective sources and not his and others' opinions. Even Colossians, which he mentioned, says we died with Christ to sin (Col 2:20) and that's when we change (as one small example). Die to sin, live to God. Rohr has to do all kinds of contortions of the sacred texts to say he's actually a Christian. Wonder why he bothers any more.

[@Stereostupid]

Marie I don’t know but I do know it’s people like rohr that are bringing people back to the church they ran from because of persecution and pushing the prayer of salvation down your throat or you are going straight to Hell bullshit..really Christianity is dying because of its ways

[@thedharmaofmarx4621]

Rob, I agree with you. It was people like Richard Rohr and the youtube channel OffTheLeftEye (which presents Christian Emanuel Swedenborg's Theology). Evangelical Christianity turned me off Christianity, to be honest. Though, I will say - and commend them - for helping being many people to Jesus. However, like Richard seems to imply, when people encounter questions from smart non-Christians, or if the Christian has a very inquisitive mind, the standard basic theology presented IMO tends to crumble.

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

Marie I first learned of him on a podcast, he was talking about sons and fathers, and how important that dynamic is, anyway I related to much of what he said on that episode, and so subscribed to his daily “contemplation” emails - and boy oh boy, they did not inspire much and frankly came off like some sort of eastern new age stuff. Basically I unsubscribed. 🤷🏻‍♂️ The guy is a hippie passing of as a Franciscan friar. Just my mediocre opinion.

[@joshuaforeman2611]

17:17 If “reality required it (the sacrifice), not God”is reality superior to God? This is basically a ransom from “reality”…

[@aisthpaoitht]

That's what I thought. God sustains reality. If reality requires it God requires it.

[@duncescotus2342]

There are no alternatives to orthodoxy any more than there are alternatives to magnetic north on a compass. (There may be slight "deviations." Be wise, people of God.)

[@jhq9064]

The Ultimate Reconciliation of All Things was orthodox the first 400 to 500 years of Christianity.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@jhq9064 Not so! "The end of a matter is greater than its beginning."

[@alexschmidt7431]

sounds like Oprah and New Age. Not even close to Catholicism and Christianity.

[@thepauldobbs]

Ha! To me, a traditionally educated Catholic, this sounds very Christian and very Catholic.

[@toocute2775]

Scary

[@toocute2775]

@@thepauldobbs really ?

[@thepauldobbs]

@@toocute2775 , Yes. I grew up in in the 60s a Polish-American parish, where parishioners were traditionally skeptical of their priests, and the priests knew it. (In the 1930s the parish went on "Mass strike" to have a priest replaced!) Then I attended a Xaverian high school where the brothers, or at least some of them, taught us to think critically. We were taught to value Catholicism's openness to mystery and to not be weighed down by a constant sense of guilt we seem to have inherited from Jansenism. Rohr turns that guilt stuff on its head. What a relief and Gift.

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

alex schmidt I started receiving his “contemplation” emails, but after reading some of what he quotes and his own “spiritual” musings I became uneasy. The reason? Well, the guy has deviated completely from the Catholic church and Christianity in general. He’s a new age guru preaching a lot of what seems like Zen Buddhism mixed with some Christianity and his own personal philosophy... hard to explain, this would be a task for a theologian or someone more savvy on scripture (i’m learning)...furthermore, I’ll venture out to say he is bit of a hippie of sorts. That’s not to say that he’s a bad person, and does not make some interesting observations, but the foundation is shaky to say the least.

[@johnstewart7025]

Nondual thinking isnt rational but that does not mean it is meaningless. The bible often is allegorical and not literal. The church teaching that jesus is man and god is a mystery to me. It only seems to mean there was a man and there is god. But in some way they are the same.

[@theguyver4934]

There are many Christians who believe the holy Bible and believe that Jesus pbuh was only a human and that God is not triune but one

[@edwardherod6072]

return to fasting

[@charisvarnadore9862]

The "leadership" issue you addressed is almost there. "Leader" and "Leadership" needs to disappear from the Christian vocabulary.

[@sebastianmelmoth685]

The absurdity of God killing Himself to pacify Himself to save humanity is an absurdity. Only Orthodoxy gets the mystical Christ correctly.

[@jeanfalls7383]

You misunderstand. Jesus came and suffered to show his solidarity with humanity. He experienced all we do as humans and the ultimate suffering of death on the cross. He was one of us as we also suffer. He demonstrated His all-consuming love for us by his willingness to do that.

[@sethccain]

Rohr's whole point starts off staggeringly weak. You cannot choose one cherry-picked set of Scriptures to cancel out another, even if you like what one set seems to say over another. There is a harmony, and the church has a long history of recognizing this, despite his claims to the contrary. I stopped counting the false dichotomies at 3. A clear false dichotomy between God's love and God's justice. Another between union with God and the sacrifice necessary to reconcile us to God in spite of the sin that separates us from his holiness. God needn't give his only begotten Son IN ORDER to "feel good" about humanity. He gave his only Son BECAUSE he felt good about humanity. Because he loves humanity enough to redeem us. And what a cruelty to Jesus if the concepts inherent in Buddhism or another cross-less faith are essentially equivalent to the truth of Christianity, as if what Jesus endured was merely an admirable gesture of self-emptying. (Heresies always begin by trivializing Jesus). This video is another example that the broad love our shallow culture wants (and goes to great lengths to justify) is not, in fact, the deep and costly love humanity needs. Jesus' obedient suffering served as the just penalty for the sin that polluted the creation God loves. "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." God was "not counting our sins against us" (2 Corinthians 5). The sentimentalism dripping off this video will never suffice as a substitute for real and costly love demonstrated in the atonement.

[@utilyan]

+Seth Cain Buddhism teaches love your enemies.Being good, loving others But you can't really call it a religion any more then you could a instruction book on how to ride a bike. Of course there are accessories that can be attached to a bike like hooking up a radio, lights, phone. There Hinduism "mythology", reincarnation was just a matter of fact, world was prob flat ect. All those things are like add-ons. The prime teaching of Buddhism isn't a spiritual matter it is MEDITATION. Meditation is a self-disciplining exercise learning how to ListenA rose by any other name is still a rose.The ENTIRE Buddhist faith can be found on Matthew 6. Jesus gives commands that are often heavily overlooked in Matthew 6. See if you can remember ANY OF IT without opening a bible. Folks pass over them like situational advice or just wit of wisdom. A Buddhist master would probably be satisfied if you actually accomplished Matthew 6. Again like rose by any other name. We don't have to say the "B" word Buddhism. Just do Matthew 6. But do it really . One of the benefits to learning Buddhism. When I pray to God rather then just flapping my mouth about all my problems. I can stop to hear what he has to say.If your not disciplined in this if you attempt to stop to listen to GOD folks can't even go 10 seconds without worry/fear "I wonder whats in the fridge" , "Did I do laundry?" "wow the sky is pretty" "Welp God ain't talking" "hello God I'm listening" Walking was a discipline we learned as a child. But what was overlooked is disciplining the mind. In terms of prayer to God, How to sit down, shut up and listen.Notice below The SON represents Jesus, He did win at the cross, but Didn't come to preach anything new. He better refined, actually put into practice, made old things new.Matthew 21:33-41 33“Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey. 34“When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce. 35“The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third. 36“Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them. 37“But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38“But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39“They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40“Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?” 41They said to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.”

[@corinadunho7971]

Rohr's interpretation is a concept I'm still struggling with, but to address some of your issues, I don't think he's trivializing Jesus. In fact, he emphasizing that Christ is important not just for the sacrifice of his last three days, but for all of time before that. I'm still processing it, though I don't think it's heresy. Also, I don't I think that finding some consistent truths in other religions is a sign of heresy -- in fact, considering that religion is a human interpretation of the divine (in my understanding) I certainly hope that seekers across the world are able to access certain truths, not just Christians (even if I think Christianity if closest to the truth). I think it would be quite cruel to think that all those billions of spiritual seekers are shut out of the truth because they haven't accepted the mainstream Christian view of the atonement -- that's certainly a "transactional" view. As for scripture, he mentions some that support his interpretation. I think a careful reading of Hebrews can lead to this interpretation too. As he points out, the early scriptures were written with the law of Jews in mind which may have introduced a transaction form of atonement that spoke to their tradition. That said, this is a pretty difficult interpretation to get my mind around. Still processing it.

[@JoePalau]

Seth Cain

[@halwarner3326]

Seth Cain your arrogance is what drives people away from Jesus. " The almighty right way by Seth Cain" . Have some humility.

[@stephenellis753]

You actually can cherry pic scripture.

[@troypeterson6615]

Can’t agree. Blood sacrifice of the Lamb of God was essential to God forgiving those who were to receive His gracious gift of salvation. Hebrews 9:22 “…without shedding of blood there is no remitting of sin.” How to reconcile Rohr’s theological idea of God being in love of His creation, Scripture says, the sacrificial atonement of Jesus was PRIOR to the creation of the world. Obviously this eternal mystery cannot be fully comprehended. God’s wrath was assuaged at creation. 1 Peter 1:18-20 18knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. 20He was foreknown before the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8 “…the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.”

[@socksumi]

Substitutional atonement. I cannot think of anything more absurd and irrational.

[@jean-frederic-pascalgoddar9801]

Orthodoxy,why alternative?traditionalist Church insures my salvation say the rosary in latin at least once a day go to confession receive the eucharist .

[@cmoberg2036]

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. There is no new gospel, there is no new Christianity or practice thereof. There's only sinful men cherry picking and tinkering with the word of God and what we know to be truth.

[@jsharp9735]

Jesus is the God of the Bible, yet Richard is trying to equate God of the OT to "reality" then taking God's nature out of the equation and inserting his own. In other words breaking the 1st commandment.

[@Cos263]

Real white

[@nakayembamalita5837]

Richard Rohr you're teaching the kind of philosophy Apostle Paul warned us about. Now I see what Melissa was saying. So saddening you're misleading so many

[@jebeau83]

Rohr does not speak for all faithful Franciscans.

[@stevenbergeron8572]

I would run, not walk, away from anything this guy teaches. There is no alternative to orthodox teaching. We do not claim the authority to correct the deposit of faith given us by Christ.

[@sevenswords8781]

He is teaching acceptable communistic religion, one where dogma no longer exits and no Saviour is needed. Glad someone else sees through this wolf.

[@doloreslehmann8628]

Have you even bothered to listen what he's saying? There is not the faintest try of "correcting" the faith, it's about transmitting it in a way people today can understand. Have you ever heard how atheists talk about the traditional explanation of atonement? It's what drives them away from Jesus. They don't walk, they run! And yes, there is an alternative to orthodox teaching. It's what Jesus did. He was considered a heretic by the orthodox people of his time.

[@sevenswords8781]

​@@doloreslehmann8628 without repentance there is no salvation john 666 says it all. The communists have tried for a long time to get us all out of the church and practice our own faith at home....... this is the agenda here in my opinion.

[@doloreslehmann8628]

@@sevenswords8781 I was actually responding to the comment before yours. But nevertheless, I wonder if we have watched the same video? There's nothing communist in there, nothing about getting people out of the church, nothing about practicing your own faith at home, nothing about there being no need for repentance. Actually, he highlights the importance of transformation, and this is exactly what metanoia, the greek original term we translate as "repentance" means. It means "change of mind, change of heart, return to God".

[@sevenswords8781]

@@doloreslehmann8628 My Mistake, but since we're chatting.... have you heard the saying If you put a frog into boiling water it will jump out, but if you put a frog in cold water and gradually bring it to the boil, the frog will stay in the water and die? This is the communist plot... they know they could never over throw religion so they placed agents in the places where they could change minds...Hence the mess in the Church today... I suggest reading a book called the school of Darkness by Bella Dobbs where she explains how they work as she was one and recuited 11000 men to the priest hood to take it down from within, some of them are now Bishops.... etc Communists wanted people to have a private religion, one kept behind closed doors and not to be spoken off outside of the home..... no need for priest no need for church...cunning little snakes who will flatter you and seduce you if your not mindful and grounded in the truth. Richard is one such snake who will bring you to cool water just to kill you spiritually of course. There are plenty of good books or videos on the Mystics of the Church. St Teresa of Avila has audio books here on you tube that are fantastic for understanding the mystical and will not lead you astray. 2 Thessalonians 2.6 Let him first be removed before the Anti Christ will Appear openly..... st paul warned us they will try to remove Christ from the Alter and here is just one part of their plan, one spin to seduce souls away from Christ and unto their eastern prayer mats where they become masters of their own reality..... Be careful and spend time in Adoration and you will never be deceived. Many other communists went to Education and politics, hence the state is now taking over all control in the free world....and brainwashing our kids. I hope you can see through this deceiver.

[@cre8509]

He is NOT rightly representing the orthodox atonement theology set forth in the Bible. He says that tradition says Jesus had to spill blood in order for the Father to love us again. Where did he get that?! Scripture says that God SO LOVED the world that He gave His only begotten Son... You don't have to go to an "alternative orthodoxy" to get the truth that God has never stopped loving us. ... Also, he seems to portray the atonement as Jesus "taking our spanking" for us. But the Bible says that Jesus BECAME SIN for us-- and that God judged our SIN by placing it on the Lamb of God, who takes away all of our sins. God HAD to judge sin in order to be JUST. God paid the price FOR US because He is LOVE! ... And YES, it IS transactional! God gave dominion to Adam and Eve. Then, through sin, they handed dominion/authority over to Satan, and the whole world fell "under his sway." Jesus came and redeemed us from the curse, and "purchased men for God." As it says in 1 John: God is both just (judges rightly) AND the one who justifies (makes us blameless in Jesus.) ... Do not let this man steal the Gospel from you. His "gospel" seems to be a combination of loose Catholicism mixed with Buddhism and New Age.

[@janeteaton3240]

Cre8 Amen ! He’s perverted the truth of God .

[@jean-frederic-pascalgoddar9801]

Not all franciscans are heretic

[@TMPreRaff]

"Alternative Orthodoxy" is an oxymoron.

[@robertgregg979]

The crackling in his voice just represents a complete and utter nonsensical overdeveloped emotionalism that has absolutely no place and salvation! This is the man that has mocked God calling into question his means of justification. How Clear is it that justification for humanity can only be got from a sinless person!

[@isaacparks1105]

Its not attractive because its heresy.

[@toocute2775]

I'm leaning towards agreement with you , heresy.

[@raulbaquero5081]

It's HERESY !

[@tacramerutube]

Heretic