Emerson Knives’ Shocking Double Surprise: Hardness Test Yields Unexpected Results! +Sharpening Tips

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Happy Thanksgiving! Many blessings to you and your family! Enjoy this unaffiliated deep dive into Emerson Knives!

[@MrCaissed]

Oh okay so you don’t sharpen other people’s knives okay I understand completely. Shhhh will you sharpen all my knives shhhh

[@MrCaissed]

Hope you had a great thanksgiving my friend!!

[@CuttingBoardRx]

🤣😂 But I may end up keeping them too…

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Same to you!

[@licencepo4616]

@CuttingBoardRx happy thanksgiving. Can we have a test of Benchmade mini narrows? Thanks

[@EDCandLace]

Thank you for the shout out!!! Hugely thankful for it!!! Hope you had a happy Thanksgiving giving my friend and so happy to see your channel growing quickly!! You deserve 100% of the success because you are really doing amazing work in the knife tube arena! You are one of very few KZbinrs that aren't shilling for free knives and link clicks so I'm very thankful for your testing and videos because no one else is doing what you do and doing it on their own coin! Keep doing the excellent videos and I can't wait to see you get that 100k subs plaque!!!

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Thanks, Lacy! It’s good to know that these things matter to people!

[@davidv7403]

Honestly I have had great luck with 154CM and 14C28N. Don't get me wrong I love Super steels also, but for what I use my knives for it really makes little difference. It is fun to sharpen and learn how new steels perform too. Heads up TSPROF clamps are on huge discount today and they are 100% compatible with that sharpener. Thanks for the informative videos and hope you are having a great holiday.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Thanks, you too!

[@dongkhamet1351]

Hey look, a knife user!

[@binyemingehna4274]

From my experience 14c28n is one of the most well balanced steel out there. It takes such a nice edge

[@Fluxxcapacitor52]

​@binyemingehna4274 agreed but we wouldn't pay $275 for that or 154cm..

[@Fluxxcapacitor52]

Emersons are the "tomorrow brown tracker" of the folder world. Hype personified

[@dongkhamet1351]

I am glad to see the greatness of CPM-154 being comprehensively revealed to you, through your excellent methodology.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Not much is being revealed about the steel here. I now it’s very hard but I do not know if they got there through proper heat treatment. I mean, to get that hardness correctly, one has to tie up the equipment for 4-5 hours. Otherwise, one could just “forget” to temper it…

[@dongkhamet1351]

@CuttingBoardRx I for one would be fascinated to see you put this particular CPM-154 blade through its paces. Pitted against the Magnacut equivalent, so much the better. Edge retention tests, Tree of Doom and whatever else might be revealing. I suppose that you are correct in your hypothesis - yet suppose that even if by accident the facility in question has stumbled upon a superior treatment! I mean, it's either that or Emerson is selling a defective product. Certainly it is out of spec. but that might not yet prove to be a bad thing, practically speaking.

[@acid6urns]

this is NOT CPM-154. this is 154cm. same composition but they’re different by a substantial amount. cpm154 is much tougher.

[@dongkhamet1351]

@acid6urns Oh man, I did it again! I am aware of the distinction but somewhere between eyeball and brain that got lost yesterday. Thank you!

[@Steel_addiction71]

Are we gonna see a video on the Strider SnG? The pivot is backwards btw! They’re not for everyone but one of my favorite knife designs of all time.

[@just9911]

Stopping by to say thanks for yet another excellent video. I know this is a bit off topic, but it would be pretty great to see your take on CTS-XHP, a criminally underrated steel in my opinion. I’d also love to see you check out something from Spartan blades. I know this is going to blasphemy for many people, but I prefer the Spartan Harsey over a Sebenza or anything from hinderer. You could somewhat kill two birds with one stone by checking out a TALOS or ASTOR from Spartan. Both are in xhp, but they are made by an OEM in Taiwan. Anyway - thanks for doing what you do. Tomorrow I’m going to hunt down the bits and pieces you recommend for upgrading/fixing the worksharp precision adjust pro.

[@patrickgorham4269]

154 CM is one of my favorite steels, first encounter of it was on a Benchmade Bedlam and on another automatic Benchmade I can't remember the name of my son gave me when he got out of the Marines, it gets scary sharp relatively fast and easy without having to fight the bur from one side to the next and holds an edge really well, the Bedlam after sharpening with my LANSKY blade medic pull through to hair shaving skinned and cleaned three big hogs on a single edge, I'd say that's pretty good and after I just touched it up with two or three passes and it was good to go. Great informative video, thank you. The only thing faster than a wave in a folder is a knife with a wave carried in the reverse grip with the blade facing forward in the pocket such as a karambit like the Civivi Incisor 2, reason being is with these particular Emersons are right hand carry only, if you're left handed it'd work, but with the Emerson you have to pull back first before striking the target, with a reverse grip carry especially a karambit with the finger ring,,, it's straight from the pocket to the target in one motion with the backwards facing blade it takes two motions but still very fast, much better than an automatic or the DREADED butterfly knives that takes ten minutes to deploy out of the pocket, yes that's exajurated but you get the picture. It's good for flashy moves or blunt force trauma first which is still good then deploy the blade. A knife with a wave takes very little knowledge of using a blade in a sudden situation and karambit for the first strike even less because of the ring, it's extremely easy to grab. The street IS NOT an action movie where you pull a knife and show how agile and skilled you are with fancy moves, that get you UNALIVED ( that sounds so stupid ), in other words YOU'LL BE DEAD before you can make your first strike. It should be straight from the pocket to the closest target with ZERO hesitation, unless they're on drugs or just a serious badass, when you cut across someone's hand or fillet their arm or just a three to four inch deep six to twelve inch long cut that's going to be the end of confrontation. Stay safe and God bless.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Knife is the last resort. Self defense weapons are ranked in this order: Brain Feet Gun Knife But I’m not an expert

[@davidlagno7717]

I buy myself a new Emerson for Christmas every year. This will be my 14th. Theyre my favorite actual hard use, everyday work blade. For slightly over 200$ for the ones i chose thats a tool for less than 1$/day. I have plenty of other brands but the Benchmade Bugout for instance i think was s30v i snapped a good ¼in off the tip in a few days. 154cm is a great steel for what i do.

[@tarasoffgear4831]

I’d love to see how some cold steel knives rate on hardness, I’ve heard they did a great job on milking the most out of more inexpensive steels ( 1.4116 , aus 8a , aus 10 ) no clue if that reputation still exists after the gsm take over.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@tarasoffgear4831 Taiwan has a general culture of perfection in heat treat. I trust them more than some of the US and Chinese thermo shops.

[@rhinosaur.]

The 154CM data sheet is under the 400 series steels if you want to see it, but you were correct that the CPM154 protocol is the same.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@rhinosaur. Thanks! Here’s the link if anyone wants to read it in detail: www.crucible.com/PDFs//DataSheets2010/ds154cmv12010.pdf

[@infantryman]

And like for great tests

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@infantryman Thanks!

[@loosieclocker]

Outdoor55 is a great guy

[@OUTDOORS55]

Im a bit on the fence about him. He does some weird stuff sometimes.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Welcome to the channel! Thanks for subscribing!

[@loosieclocker]

@@OUTDOORS55 weird for sure.

[@thundair]

Hmm. I'd be curious to see some toughness tests for 154 in that range.

[@Carnivorous_edc]

Good video and taste in knives. The Chaves and Emerson are excellent!

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@Carnivorous_edc thank you!

[@Trevlee74]

I like Emerson knives. A lot actually. But I will always stick with their 154cm. I’ve had no complaints with its performance.

[@d.eddlemon]

That was an interesting video, especially about the hardness difference between 154 and Magnacut. Did you strop either of those blades? I wonder what kind of stropping to do to a knife ( e.g., whether to use Tormek paste or diamond emulsifiers). Have you any videos about that?

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@d.eddlemon I don’t have a video on stropping specifically. I am in the camp of people that rely on diamond plates for 98% of sharpening and just a little stropping in the end.

[@IvanBoreyko]

Thankds for your Ukraine support

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Слава Україні!

[@tombrown4683]

I really appreciate you telling people the truth about auto knives. That they are slower to deploy than conventional folders. I have been proving this since 1982 by racing people with their switchblades. Reminder, there were no thumb studs, flippers etc back then.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@tombrown4683 The OTF had one advantage over manual folders: no need for open space to deploy.

[@tallica4life81]

I know basically nothing about cpm 154. I just got a custom Ray Laconico in it. I will get to see if it holds an edge long enough for me. Its pretty darn thin behind the edge with nice hollow grinds. So either way it should be good for my favorite cutting task of cardboard.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@tallica4life81 Here’s the gist of 154CM: it’s a 400-series steel, very much an evolution of 440C

[@acid6urns]

bro in the 90s people had already been using 154cm for decades. bob loveless was using it for a long time as ats34. modern emerson’s are also terrible values for what you get. i’ve heard stories of bad qc and fit and finish on emerson knives despite the high price tag. they were good when they came out but nowadays not worth it. also if that 154cm is actually 62 hrc it’s going to have god awful toughness, also the fact that the steel is out of spec at ALL by 2 hrc when it already has a 4 hrc spread is awful. those magnacut hardness ratings are also abysmal. this video just cements my ideas that emerson is ridiculously overpriced and overrated in the modern day.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

There is a lot to unpack here. Emerson is at the mercy of heat treat shops that process the blades. Most Rockwell testers have tolerance of plus or minus 2 1/2 points. Rockwell tester that can get lower tolerances costs $7500 or higher. Emerson did not invent 154 CM but they brought this steel into production on massive scale. 99% of Emerson buyers were more concerned with the tactical capabilities of his knives back in the day. It is more of a novelty item in this day and age that appeals to collectors and diehards from back then.

[@anthonycampos7417]

If you have any lockstick issues I carbidize the lockface of knives to make it easier to unlock them increase their life

[@monkpato]

Sounds interesting. What's the process?

[@anthonycampos7417]

@monkpato thorinated tungsten rods, an engraver and Jerry-rigging a 12v power supply

[@I_Might_B_Wrong]

I dunno what Emerson does with 154CM, but it's outperformed every other ingot 154CM I've ever used across about 7-8 knives of theirs over the years.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

Maybe they are trying to redeem themselves?

[@I_Might_B_Wrong]

@@CuttingBoardRx Not sure what they need to redeem? I've been having nothing but good experiences with it since 2012 when I got my first one. Never had anything less than a stellar blade from them. The liners aren't polished, sure, but the fit and the performance have never been an issue for me.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@ They advertise heat treat at 57-59 HRC. 154CM is a derivative of 440C, altered to take higher hardness without degradation in toughness. But they treated it as if it was 440C, not taking advantage of the better properties while changing the inflated price.

[@floridaman727]

Better late than never!

[@CuttingBoardRx]

I love owning these!

[@harryanderson7282]

A little OT, sorry, but I was wondering if you could possibly recommend for me a manual folder w/ some variant of an Axis lock that you yourself would feel confident/safe carrying as an edc knife? Looking for something w/ a 3.5" - 4" blade under $400 w/ good steel.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@harryanderson7282 Microtech MSI or Amphibian made not earlier than May 2024 (the date is on the pocket clip) with aluminum handles. Benchmade Crooked River select edge. Manix 2 XL CruWear Micarta.

[@just9911]

Take a look at the hogue made SIG k320. I prefer the knifecenter exclusive version with a magnacut blade and aluminum handle. That or a Doug Ritter RSK (only available from knife works) which is also made by hogue. They are on the small end of your range (k320 is a 3.5” blade & 3” cutting edge, the RSK is 3.45”) but they are exceptionally capable folders. Hogue improved the geometry of the axis lock and they use better quality springs. They also do an excellent heat treat.

[@barrybueler3356]

If the magnacut is heat treated right it should out perform 154cm in every way except price and ease of sharpening.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@barrybueler3356 MagnaCut is very easy to sharpen

[@Edcreviewer]

Just because crucible site says said steel optimal range is say 57-60 that doesn't mean that the steel is unstable outside of that range. take s90v for example custom heat treats take it to 64rc and it's beautiful yet crucible protocols will take it no where near that hardness.

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@Edcreviewer I think you’re misreading my meaning by a little bit, but I agree with your main point. So, to be clear, I don’t think that for $259 retail price for this knife, Emerson would deliberately negotiate an excruciatingly painstaking process that would result in 62 HRC on 154CM blade. I think they are being UTTERLY SCREWED by the heat treat shop on both blades!

[@acid6urns]

this is true for some steels. 154cm already isn’t very tough at normal hrc ranges. taking it to 62 hrc is going to make it even less tough. there is a reason 154cm is typically ran around 60.

[@poncho151]

Bizarre. I’ve cam so close to buying many Emerson knives but I’ve seen so many inconsistencies and heard too many horror stories that I just can’t get myself to take the leap…

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@ Both Emerson knives I now own are decent.

[@MFD00MTR33]

The results feel like they should be the opposite. 60.6 for 154cm and 62 for magnacut. Not the other way around

[@thedrmurchindise]

An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. Relying on a folding knife as a weapon is fantasy at best.

[@licencepo4616]

Happy thanksgiving. Can we have a test of Benchmade mini narrows? Thanks

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@licencepo4616 Not a chance.

[@licencepo4616]

@ ok Thanks for your answer

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@licencepo4616 I have 3 full size Narrows and they definitely have a niche: an ultra light weight full size pocket knife. The mini adds nothing functional to the world that is not already accomplished by a mini Bugout. But everyone is different.

[@infantryman]

Hey! Like for badass t-shirt!

[@dbmail545]

Never was a fan of the "wave" Seemed a bit hard on your pockets.

[@nmiloslavich]

Have you tried one? Totally curious

[@CuttingBoardRx]

The wave doesn’t affect the pocket but the raging sandpaper-like texture of the scales does.

[@RalphLess]

I run a business, If I didn't inspect a vendor's order and just put they're parts on my product to sell, it's my fault, when it performs poorly,nobody else's and I would have to make my customers whole. I blame Emerson.

[@Fluxxcapacitor52]

The spyderco endura 4 "wave" is by far the fastest deploying folders. It's not even close, that's why 90% of martial blade trainers use spydercos. Even the standard model with a zip tie mod is way faster. Now, on the build quality. Emersons are far too heavy with steel softer than charmin . Deployed you can carry a small fixed blade for the same weight. There's a reason why NO-ONE carries these boat anchors, they tare your pants pockets apart. Zero crowning on the Emerson hook or wave... Great speech, just not aligned with the facts

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@Fluxxcapacitor52 You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, friend! For the rest of my viewers, here are some facts about the Endura Emerson vs. Emerson Kwaiken: Made in Japan (vs. USA) VG10 Steel (vs. 154CM) FRN scales (vs. G10) Steel liners (vs. Titanium) Two hand closing (vs. single hand) Weight 3.6 OZ (vs. 4.7 OZ) I guess 1.1 OZ difference makes it a boat anchor in your world? Gym membership anyone? Thanks for watching!

[@michaell397]

No Sir! R.W. (Bob) Loveless pioneered 154CM long before Emerson was ever heard of . When it became hard to obtain, he and Jim Merritt flew to Japan to meet with Hitachi and they developed ATS 34 as a replacement. Later he developed RWL 34. RWL are Bob Loveless's Initials. Both the Loveless shop and my shop always specked 154cm at 61-62 Hrc. Magnnacut is spaced to 63-64 by its developer and maker. This blade is far too soft for proper performance in magnacut!its designer. KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ Years in the Craft

[@CuttingBoardRx]

@@michaell397 I appreciate your input! I knew I’d miss something! I just thought since I’m talking about production knives vs custom, Emerson is probably the reason RWL had to go to Japan.

[@scottc77]

Machinist for thirty years and i chuckle at knife hipsters bitching that Emerson knives are not using the steel of the week, the latest greatest steel that will be pass’e next week.