Cheapest Lithium Challenge:Power Queen 300Ah

[@mememe5231]

Great video as always! Thank you. Would it be okay to break say 9-100Ah into three banks of three 100Ah in parallel. If you buying the batteries over time? Or better to just save for the 300Ah

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Here are some no-nos for joining batteries. -Keep the number in parallel down. Usually suggested is 4 but if you go with more invest in loads of copper connecting them. -Don't mix different ages -Don't match different models. (Internal resistance can be different) If you use a BankManager the rules should be different. The rules above become the rules for each bank. But you can add "different" banks if each has its own BankManager. Each BankManager will charge its own bank to that banks custom requirements. I know that could get expensive but at least it's a way to grow your battery collection in the future.

[@BOOMER9196]

Great series. One thing that some of us need to be mindful of is the ABYC requirement for Bluetooth Insurance may require that.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I really don't think there is a Bluetooth ABYC requirement.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

There is a stupid requirement that the BMS notify the charge controllers it's about to disconnect.

[@BOOMER9196]

@@Clarks-Adventure Do any of these batteries have another way of meeting the communication requirements

[@bitsurfr46]

After watching your battery reviews, I have concluded that almost all of them are serviceable. The only caveat is that you will need a model that has a cold weather shutdown if you use one up north. Also, I agree with Clark that some manufacturers are buying batteries unbranded and pasting their labels on them. This is a great time to buy a Lithium Po4 battery!

[@captrandy3307]

Great video, Clark! I'm a Naval Architect/Marine Engineer that also loves to be very hands-on. I plan on upgrading to Lithium batteries at some point, and it appears that the longer I wait, the better/cheaper the technology becomes. Thanks for providing the tremendous value of your videos to the sailing community. Great spreadsheet also. Bravo!

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Thanks Randy, Have you looked into my BankManager? www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms

[@captrandy3307]

@@Clarks-Adventure Yes, and it is on my list of directions to go in.

[@henriaube2278]

Excellent review, once again, Clark. Very educational and informative, as the world transitions slowly away from lead.

[@johnnylightning1491]

Looks like it could be a good choice for me. I'm having a debate with myself about the cold cutoff, should it be in the battery or in the BMS. Keep the good stuff coming Clark and I really do appreciate these videos.

[@ny1t]

I have the AmphereTime battery equivalent to this. I contacted them about their parallel wiring recommendation They went from positive on battery 1, to battery 2 to battery 3 and then 4. They connected the load to battery 4. They did the same on the negative side in the opposite direction, battery 4 to 3 to 2 to 1. connecting the load to battery 1. I contacted them and pointed out the current would increase on the cables from battery 1 (on the positive cable) to battery 4. I recommended they run each battery to common buses and take the load off the buses. I was surprised to see they updated their manual to reflect that. I wonder how your manual describes parallel wiring.

[@ballomni]

Bravo Zulu! Another complete analysis..

[@bobuncle8704]

That 300 Ah battery is only slightly more than some of the popular 100 Ah batteries. That in and of itself makes this a great deal. Ideally I think I’d like to have 4 of these and run them at 48 volts. At least down the road. The plan is to eventually be able to run my compressor and welder(not at the same time) which are both 220 v 30 a units. I’ve looked at a 15Kw inverter/controller that I’d eventually like to get. All this is dependent on money, so it may just be a pipe dream anyway.

[@bravofighter]

I want to do a 48V setup to run an electric motor on a trawler for the Great Loop. Loads of solar and a diesel genny, I think it could be a fine setup. I always like diesel-over-electric and electric-over-hydraulic setups, they’re much more reliable than Diesel engines pushing vehicles or boats, and much less room for disaster. Potentiometers beat transmissions 100%

[@Clarks-Adventure]

If you guys go 48v with 11v batteries it's important to add an isolated balancer. I used one in the Duffy video and it worked fine and only cost like 60 bucks. You can find it in our Amazon store. Li on series can so easily drift out of balance and then you either overcharge a battery or deplete one. But best to get them all under one BMS with true 48v batteries.

[@helomech1973]

Loving this series. Thanks Clark

[@c.a.mcneil7599]

Wish I had friends 😀. But for some reason it doesn’t work out. Lol jokes like this makes my true friends smile. Hope I did for others. Clark can make my brain hurt also at times:). Thanks for sharing Clark! So informative

[@bdmenne]

🙏🏼

[@marklapierre5629]

Thanks for the hard work, and the awesome spreadsheet.

[@sailingavemar]

I’m loving your series on these lower cost batteries. I just can’t connect the dots as to why a few “name brand” batteries cost up to 5 times as much as these lower priced units. Is it purely brand name and marketing at this point? They were early and now the tech is more available to other companies making similar quality batteries? Some 100Ah are 5 times as much as some that get good marks on your spreadsheet. I just haven’t figured out the reason other than brand names.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

They charge what people will pay.

[@DavidPritt-xh7qq]

Clark, I just love your videos, very informative and I am learning more about these batteries every time I watch one of your videos. I am looking at upgrading one of my two banks from Lead-Acid to LiFePO4 over the winter period, the challenge here is the boat's battery compartments are built around each having a pair of Exide ES1350 (120 Ah) batteries, which give me a space of 20.5" x 15" or 520mm x 380mm. I am struggling to find anything suitable, other than 4 x the Redodo / Power Queen 100 Ahs Minis. I would prefer a couple of carger units, but som far nothing will fit the space. I would leave a couple of the Exides in the other compartment to run alongside the new ones to absorb any extra energy from the alternators / solar when the BBMS kicks in to protect the lithiums and rely on the existing charger mechanisms to manage them. The lack of standardisation in battery sizes is a real downer.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I'll be building a battery from raw cells soon. That might give you the best fit options.

[@SailingEssieMae]

Thanks once again! I really enjoy watching such useful videos.

[@adler310]

I don’t see it clarified in any other comment . Regrettably amps is used to describe two different properties in batteries. This battery has a CAPACITY of 300 Amps/hr . That is a measure of energy capacity. This battery should be able to support a discharge of 100amps of current for 3 hours. The BMS is rated to 200 amps. That would be the largest discharge rate the battery should be able to handle. If you want to see it in terms of watts. 200 amps at 12v means you could turn on about 24 100watts lightbulbs (2400 watts) at the same time. The 300 amps hr capacity means you can keep those 24 lightbulbs on for about 90 minutes or 1.5 hours .

[@petercooke2115]

Love your work Clark,thank you

[@robbypro3370]

It used to be that you couldn't double or triple wires up to increase amperage. We had to rate only one of the smallest wires. It didn't matter if you had 3 wires and one was a 10, one an 8 and one a 6. You have to rate it at the 10 only.

[@dracey1778]

Thanks Clark, good stuff.

[@bravofighter]

This looks like an excellent battery. What’s everybody’s favorite ice cream flavor? Pecan praline here!

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Chocolate!

[@matteng2332]

Awesome video and great review

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Thanks Matt

[@jeffdege4786]

I've seen concerns stated about using individual cells of over 200Ah in mobile applications, due to the lack of structural integrity within cells. A LiFePO4 cell is 3.2V, so to get to 12V you need four cells in series. Internally, a 300Ah 12V battery could be four 300Ah cells or eight 150Ah cells or twelve 100Ah cells or whatever. From outside the battery they look the same. But the individual cells are larger with 300Ah than 100Ah, and that means there is less physical support for the anodes and cathodes, and in an environment that might encounter slamming into wave tops, that might matter. I can't speak to how real a concern this is. But I've seen it raised.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Good point. I hadn't heard this concern. It would be less of an issue for a boat. Even in a storm the ride is less jolting than a truck. We live the life of a never ending egg toss out here

[@jeffdege4786]

@@Clarks-Adventure I think it would be less of an issue in a sailboat. But when I watch videos of power boats slamming through Haulover Inlet...

[@IamPreacherMan]

⁠@@jeffdege4786hint. Don’t go through haulover inlet. I don’t think sailboats can through there anyway because of fixed bridge. But I’m not sure about that.

[@jeffdege4786]

@@IamPreacherMan My boat's masts are on tabernacles. I can raise and lower them single-handed. And I have to think that Haulover must be reasonably calm, if you time the tides right. But the whole reason I'm on a sailboat is because since I've retired I refuse to be in a hurry...

[@robbypro3370]

This is how I became an engineer myself. I took everything apart as a young kid to see how it worked and to see why it failed. Drove me crazy in the 70s when I saw the obviously poor designs of Chinese and Hong Kong junk before they stole our technology. Now they make decent stuff pretty cheap.

[@Jean-MarcMariotti]

Thanks again for the very interesting video. Could you please elaborate a bit about the fact that the power of the BMS (here 200Ah) is less than the battery capacity (here 300Ah)? You said the importance of this is based on what we want to do with the battery, I don't really understand, what would be the criteria? What are pros and cons of having a BMS less powerful than the battery?

[@Sonnell]

I am not a pro about these, but I think you might want to draw power at max 200A from this one, rather than 300. The charging might have such a limit as well. So it is like a 200Ah battery, which runs 50% longer :) Otherwise it shall be able to balance the cells the same way. In my honest opinion :) (also, I would never try to draw more than 50% of their rated power, for safety and longetivity reasons. So 100A max for this one)

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Well said

[@wallacegrommet9343]

Almost all of the Chinese lithium batteries manufacturers set the BMS current limit at less than the total amp hour rating. I consider it prudent on their part. Clearly, they want to prevent current overdraw.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Honestly I think it's because those BMSs cost less. But as long as they are as big as you need they are big enough.

[@Jean-MarcMariotti]

@@Clarks-Adventure Fine, but in practice, on a sailing boat, what would require to support more than 200 Ah?

[@mylifethaidiy7045]

Clark on "Critter Hunter" youtube channel, I see he is buying a 66' wooden boat in the Philippines that is partially sunk in the dock. I think you might want to offer some of your engineering advice. They are wrapping 55 gallon barrels around it and hoping high tide will float it up...

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Oooh. I have enough engineering activities right here. Between my projects and patron's/friends I stay plenty busy.

[@zaneenaz4962]

Nice review. Questions: At what voltage did you stop charging ? please explain a little about the hockeystick effect...is this the jump to 13.65v ? Thanks

[@Clarks-Adventure]

The first time through I charged until the BMS clicked off to look at cell balance. That's not a good idea as it's hard on the battery and takes some life out of it each time. The second charge up, after the inverter test, was with my BankManager which knows when the hockey stick (rapid rise in voltage) is just about to happen and stops the charge first. There is no magic voltage to charge to like lead. You simply can't charge LiFePO4 safely to a voltage. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms

[@russingersoll5761]

Buyer beware. I bought the POWERQUEEN 200Ah Plus and it failed on the first day. Their company still hasn't refunded my money or sent a replacement. #powerqueen #powerqueenus #solar #battery #lifepo4 #greenenergy #offgrid #vanlife #rv #camper #fishing #survival

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Thank you for announcing it here. Beware

[@prefix808]

How did it fail?

[@HotRockCentral]

Hiya Clark, just curious, what is your calculation of the voltage per lith cell to where the knee starts accelerating upwards? I have my lipo4's tied in directly with some agm's & just set my charger for straight 27.6v on both bulk & float which is the perfect float for the agm's & the lith cells stop @ 3.45v.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Like so many things li you can't go by voltage alone. Well you can and be close but to get long life out of your cells you need to take current and time and history into consideration. The "hockey stick" happens after you hit 100 POC. That could happen from any voltage between 14.6 - 13.48. After that further charge energy has no place to go but damaging the cells and raising the voltage.

[@tubeyerself2]

Clark, Have you checked out the ''Dakota'' batteries yet.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Nope. Suggest my channel to them.

[@chrisanderson2131]

Guys plz help, I have a my van engine battery lead acid (pretty big batt) then underneath my van is another lead acid battery, not sure what size. But I also am putting a 300 amp renogy battery inside my van . Hoe do I connect my lithium to the two leas acid batterys for dc to dc charging safely? I was going to series the lead and then connect the Latium to the first lead acid battery under the hood

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Done put anything in series, that changes the voltage. I'm sure you meant parallel. Sure parallel the lead and then. Put the li in parallel with the BankManager in the positive cable like it shows in the manual. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms

[@davidbet]

Clark, great information, thank you for doing this. My question is do you need lead if you have all this amperage available to start engines or operate windlass motors?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Well you need lead to use my BankManager..... Usually yes. Li BMSs are seldom sized for big amps. Lead is great at that. It's one of the reasons I promote hybrid battery systems.

[@wallacegrommet9343]

Perhaps having multiple batteries in parallel will allow starting current to be delivered without triggering the BMS? I have three Powerqueen 190 amp hour about to be installed, but do have two lead acid group 27’s for starting and windlass duties

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I go into this thought at around 17 minutes into kzbin.info/www/bejne/boO0c2uem8ehrtk. That's the Redodo mini video.

[@daviddavis7855]

Not a criticism, but “oh” is not equal to “zero”. ATT started this a while back, but looking up details it is important to distinguish between the number zero and the letter O.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Which is it? I couldn't tell when reading but I'm assuming you got a successful search. And please tell us what you found about the BMS and cells.

[@daviddavis7855]

@@Clarks-Adventure Still don’t know, search with “0” and with “O” neither successful. Will need to do a combo search, mixing characters.

[@TheOpticalFreak]

A lot of times I get the fruity kiwi smell with lithium batteries! 😜

[@uhjyuff2095]

I get what you mean about charging too high, but do you manually stop charging your phone before it automatically stops charging? the bms will stop charging at the correct time to avoid damage and the battery will still be useable as the bms only turns off charging and not discharging function.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I suggest you read Conrad's article linked to the bottom of this. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms First off. Your phone has a more conservative charge controller than a BMS. Second. I expect these LiFePO4 to last 15 years. Do you get that from your phone??

[@larryhebert3765]

Is it possible to do two banks of lithium tied together with my present bank switch that my two lead acid use? And a separate lead acid start battery and a separate lead acid winch battery?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

It's possible. But tying Li and Pb together can be tricky. Best to do it with the BankManager. If you are mixing two different types or ages of li you can do that with two BankManagers. But, most likely you will want your Li in one bank.

[@ericklein5097]

Kinda redundant to do LiTime/Redodo/PowerQueen in different videos. They have the EXACT same batteries. There are some differences in the models like the mini is pouch cells and the BMS on those is set a little conservative especially on the top side which I like. But all 3 have the Mini and they are the same.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

That's why I rejected power queen sending a 200.

[@armandocorella975]

Thanks for the video. I recently purchased a UMUM 24v, 200Ah battery from Aliexpress. I have not receive the battery but only payed $300 for this large battery. Have you investigated this brand or other Aliexpress batteries?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

No I haven't.

[@thomasfeiller2207]

Someone explain why a battery ratted at 300ah would have a 200ah BMS, please. Am I getting more time because it is a 300ah battery and the BMS is just putting in some sort of protection?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

200 AMPS is the maximum current that the battery can deliver. Think of that as the engine size. 300 AMP HOURS is the amount of total power available assuming disregarding the slowly falling voltage. Think of it as the fuel capacity.

[@thomasfeiller2207]

Thank you. that was generally what I was assuming. So, a 200ah battery with a 200BMS would put out the same but for less time. Is that correct? @@Clarks-Adventure

[@Clarks-Adventure]

The battery will never "put out" more than the load circuit demands. The BMS number is about maximum current.

[@1akmason]

Amazing video as usual though I did cringe when you stuck that screwdriver inside

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Yep but no way around it. I said "metal tool" to remind myself to be extra careful.

[@josephclayton1835]

So are you measuring AC current? My Klein clamp on meter doesn’t measure DC current.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

This one does. Check the model either in a video I did on it or our Amazon store linked in the description.

[@evertking1]

Hey, how are ya? Im about to purchase the bank manager but confused on the battery end. So its not ok to mix 12v batteries that have different ah? Im getting conflicting answers on this. I have a few (2) 12v 100 ah lithium and 3 12v agm 100 ah but also have a few higher ah agm and hate to watse them. I just wanted you opinion on the right ratio of lead to lithium and if i could work the 200 ah battery in so its not just sitting around. If ya cant tell, im a complete noob, but you make it aound easy. Thanks, James

[@Clarks-Adventure]

For lead mix any ah size case you want in parallel as long as the voltage is the same. For Li it's not that simple. Watch this coming Saturday's video. It's on exactly this issue.

[@evertking1]

@@Clarks-Adventure thank you so much. So, I'm going to go with my 2 100ah 12 volt lithium and my AGMs and the bank manager. I can't wait!! This has been a big learning curve. However, it's been fun learning new things. Got 1200 watts of solar, 2 charge controllers and a 12volt 3000 watt inverter. All this in a 24 foot off grid RV. I am hoping it will run the AC but not going to get my hopes up. May just end up putting in a small window unit and running a gas generator for the AC... anyway, I'm rambling. Thank you so much.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Cool. FYI. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lX6TgJx3npqle68

[@peterdement]

Are the model/serial numbers you quote the letter "O" or the number zero?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

One can never be certain

[@kissingbanditt]

Amazing video. But confused. If i bought 4 of the 100 Ah. Can i put them in parallel to get 400 Ah’s ???

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Yes you can. The bigger single battery has a better ability to keep all the cells in balance since they are all controlled by the one BMS and you don't need all the hookup wires. But either works

[@Jesse-z5t8y]

High strand wire not just thick wire

[@Clarks-Adventure]

The strands are about flexibility the weight of copper is about conductivity

[@cooltrkin]

Are those OHs or zeros?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I can't tell

[@alsemi-back-up579]

Can you access the BMS in this Battery

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I do in the video. I don't understand your question

[@alsemi-back-up579]

Do you know which cells voltage is?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Not without opening the case. This isn't t a Bluetooth battery. If you want that, check out the Elefast. It's listed on the leaderboard linked in the description of this video.

[@MY_SOLACE]

Are the Power Queen products UL or USCG certified?

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Probably just CE as are most things these days. I don't think the coast guard has a battery certification standard.

[@MY_SOLACE]

@@Clarks-Adventure Probably not, but is rated from someone for marine use. It’s could be an issue with insurance cos. using lithium batteries not rated or certified for marine use.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Rated for Marine use is a sticker on the front showing a boat. I've not heard of any special requirements as with lead. It's a marketing thing. If you find otherwise I'd really like to learn more.

[@IamPreacherMan]

@@Clarks-Adventuresame appears to apply to solar panels etc. Of course since it’s rated to be outside 🤷🏼‍♂️. Cars and trucks carry batteries and they go 70+ mph and crash into one another. Hell, aircraft carriers have nuclear power plants on em. I think a few smartly placed LIFEPO4 batteries in your boat is alright. Prolly safer than lead acid which out gases.

[@MY_SOLACE]

⁠​⁠@@IamPreacherManI think, the issue stem from lithium batteries that have ignited in the past. Tesla have had problems with their batteries catching on fire!

[@massa-blasta]

they need to bring the price down

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Its price per watt is right in line with the decent offerings. But if price is important there are cheaper batteries in this review series.

[@timevans8223]

No Bluetooth? You can't see cell voltages? No comment on cell balancing? Does it have passive of active balancing? The variation in cell voltages you measured would be unacceptable to me. That battery needs cell balancing for long life and to stop over voltage bms trips.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I agree I downgraded the cell score when compared to the Redodo. But honestly it seems the luck of the draw. Likely if you bought one it would start closer to balance based on the Redodo. The cell balancer seemed VERY slow. I removed that footage because it seemed better than it was and my comments were misleading. The Elefast type BMS is superior. If that's important to you you should go that way. I have reviews coming with big batteries with better BMSs.

[@timevans8223]

These low spec batteries still cost a lot of money. If you are can build a battery yourself, you can have a far better specification battery for way less money. You know what cells you are getting and what BMS. My 560Ah battery with CATL cells, JK 200A BMs with 2A active balancing cost me $1500. Way better value using 280Ah cells.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

@@timevans8223 yep, but everyone can't do that. I'll try to help those on the edge. I have some CALBs coming for a video on build-your-own

[@wallacegrommet9343]

Where did you buy your lithium cells? I kind of wish I went your route but just didn’t have the time. Boating season was uopn me, and drop in (almost) batteries were much quicker to install. We shall see how mine perform.

[@alverundberg5807]

You never tell us the price!

[@Clarks-Adventure]

Watch again. It's right at the beginning after the dimensions. And there is a link on the leader board.

[@Clarks-Adventure]

I always tell you the price

[@c.a.mcneil7599]

Please do others a big favor watch before you claim this nonsense.