Employee Refusing to Sign a Write-Up? Here's What You Need To Know!

[@peopleprocesses]

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[@MH_Bikes]

Have you ever considered that the very term "Human Resources" is sociopathic?

[@peopleprocesses]

hahah. Better than "Human Capital Management," lol, which I see swung around a lot now. I see "People Operations". "Employee Experience" etc... sometimes... but they are all kinda weird. Tried to brainstorm a few alternatives... they are worse... much worse. Rhamy - Human Improvement Officer

[@thodan467]

@@peopleprocesses Presonel or Employee Department

[@MoonMimid]

The purpose of a write up is NOT, in any way, to correct behavior. It is entirely for the purpose of protecting the employer from a wrongful termination lawsuit. Full stop.

[@nezbrun872]

It's also often used as a way of managing out people. If they don't take the hint and leave voluntarily, assign them unachievable goals and do it that way. HR is there for the employer, not for the employee, despite how they try to portray themselves.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the comment. While documentation can protect the employer, if done right anyway, it also forces the manager to write down exactly what is going on and what they want. I have seen people perform better after a write up... if nothing else because it forced the manager to be clear with their expectations.

[@dausume]

@@peopleprocesses The most common way this sort of document is often used, at least in my experience and from what I have heard elsewhere, is often to either frame or drive out employees who point out mismanagement and corruption. *otherwise pointing out and documenting issues is usually just done via emails for more genuine issues, which do happen The problem being usually the only people skilled enough to actually argue and win that kind of argument is usually scientists/engineers. Or people who otherwise happen to be pretty good at math. Who are often times more capable at following business logic and math than their ‘managers’, at least if they take the time to look into what is wrong. But even then when it is obvious that the cause of the issue is mismanagement and the person doing the work provides plentiful evidence. Usually nothing happens to the corrupt management, and they continually make attempts to discredit the employee so they look good to the client. The employee often simply lacks the money to take them to court or does not want having sued an employer on their record so usually they eventually leave despite most of the other employees agreeing management caused the issue via their own policies and failure to follow them and were the ones who needed disciplined. Which almost certainly leads to their entire business becoming more corrupt and driving out any competent employees over time regardless, but yeah. This is just a well known phenomenon among most people, basically anyone who has not just been in business most of their life.

[@MoonMimid]

@@nezbrun872 ...or they just simply make things up.

[@JackieSkellington]

I was assigned unachievable goals! It would have involved time traveling...

[@MrMojo271]

I know a lawyer probably wouldn’t agree, but I’d just quit. I’m so sick of companies treating people like toddlers

[@peopleprocesses]

I hear ya Mr. Mojo. I wanted our company slogan to be HR for Grownups... but the babies in marketing made me change it to GrownUp HR. Thanks for the comment.

[@jdsaldivar5606]

@@MrMojo271 Hola!! Way to many softies out there.

[@peterkottke2570]

This doesn't address the issue of what HR should do if the manager is abusing his power to give write ups. Such as giving write ups for trivial matters to employees he doesn't like. Or giving a write up blaming an employee for something that was actually the manager's fault. Etc.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thats true Peter! I'll add that to our video idea queue =). Thanks for the comment!

[@JackieSkellington]

What I don't get is in "at will" employment you can be let go anytime... so what "write up?" What "wrongful termination?"

[@peopleprocesses]

Good question! At will means you can be terminated for "no reason" or "any legal reason". You still can't discriminate, or act against whistle blowers, or fire someone for getting injured... etc... So while you could technically fire someone for "no reason", if the terminated employee alleges you did it because of discrimination... you really need a better basis than that!

[@JackieSkellington]

@@peopleprocesses Oh, ok

[@bryanenglish7841]

I got a write up once because I didn't sit in an assigned seat during a meeting.

[@thodan467]

Had that a reason, like that seat was reserved for handicapped persons

[@peopleprocesses]

lol, Thanks for the comment =)

[@DCnativeArtist]

New follower.... How do you write a write up about an employee who the owner of the company complained about but doesn't want to provide you details of what happened? And could I document the general complaint and state that no detail provided by Owner or by Management? My supervisor told me to just document what I know and put in the employee file and not to discuss the write up and keep as case notes. But what if the owner gets upset that I didn't write up this employee? The owner is hot tempered and loud. He hasn't been like that with me yet but it's lingering. Thank you 🙏🏽

[@peopleprocesses]

Sorry for the slow reply! As he said, just write down what you know and stick it in his file. Its your view of whatever happened. Stick to the facts, not feelings or results. Just X happened on Y date, then this, then that.

[@Dusty338]

I was written up today for missing 3 shifts due to increased pain due to a permanent injury I suffered at this job, and the employer not fully cooperating with my accommodations. I signed, but wrote "I do not agree with the contents of this write up, my signature only confirms I reviewed the document."

[@peopleprocesses]

Nice Dusty. I think that is appropriate given what you said!

[@thodan467]

Is a rebuttal a right or a poisoned privilige?

[@peopleprocesses]

It's neither, actually. You dont actually have a right to "Rebut," but you can normally deliver in writing to your employer anything you want, and they should keep it if its a complaint or grievance. Basically a rebuttal is just encouraging you to write down what you want them to know, and in a lot instances its a really good idea. Depends on your company of course, but in most of ours, rebuttals to any sort of performance / disciplinary measure make it way up the chain pretty quickly for review. Thanks for the comment.

[@thodan467]

@@peopleprocesses I missed workers council and union paticipation

[@peopleprocesses]

@@thodan467 You know, that may be a good video! Of course, if you have appeals through unions / councils thats a different thing =). Even under the most stringent of those circumstances, the evaluation of performance and documentations of infractions are normally inside the control of the manager. Any ACTION they take based on such a review would be subject in most cases to union review. Thanks for the reply!

[@thodan467]

@@peopleprocesses If the council believes. and if the employee demands it they will be represented the managers judgement was wrong, they may veto it and then the union will support the employee challenging that in court and that is rather rarely considered a good idea higher up.

[@lweidner6288]

I would rather be an insubordinate than agree to a write up that is completely falsified. I just got my 2nd and final write up tonight, and I refused to sign it. These write ups my boss does is a tactic to push out an employee he doesn't like.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the (second) comment! lol

[@jdsaldivar5606]

82ND AIRBORNE In the military... " S M refuses to sign...S M stands for Service Member. Look Man...lay them off...not enough work... don't ever call them again. Bonus...tell the x employee they qualify for unemployment. Have a nice Life.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thats about right paratrooper! Insubordination. Thanks for the comment, and your service!

[@Bit-while_going]

If a company is being used to make a legal case for treating people as slaves, I wouldn't sign their BS. I'd take it as an easy way out.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the comment!

[@paxwallace8324]

The problem is no unions and zero employee rights. We've all been pushed back into the guilded age.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the comment!

[@figlermaert]

Just say that you’ll document that they refused to acknowledge the write up. Haven’t watched the video but that’s what I think you do.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the comment!

[@LectronCircuits]

Never sign or give written acknowledgement to any write-up without your union steward or attorney present. Cheers!

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the comment!

[@impossiblewindows4367]

gross. how to manipulate someone into contracting against their best interest. 😂

[@peopleprocesses]

Not contracting =). Just acknowledgement. But I get the ick! Its just normally in the best interest of the employee too, they are just to pissed to realize that acknowledging they got the documentation isnt the hill to die on! Anywho, thanks for the comment!

[@impossiblewindows4367]

@@peopleprocesses this whole vid implies that the employees are real “quality” people.

[@AidanDaGreat]

It stings when I pee

[@peopleprocesses]

Good luck with that buddy!

[@AidanDaGreat]

@@peopleprocesses thanks. hope you get to rename your channel to HR for Grownups eventually

[@paxwallace8324]

The entire premise of correcting behavior has zero 'make wrong or blame involved" but we all know that more often than not this ideal of blameless correction is just nonsense in the unfortunate reality of late stage Capitalism.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the Comment!

[@paxwallace8324]

@@peopleprocesses hey man I lived 6 yrs in Denmark and before that Germany what we have here is a disgrace that's only about creating more debt slaves

[@Juttutin]

We need UBI so that people can just quit on the spot when a company tries to treat their employees like school children.

[@miowacity]

So you can just sit around at home and not work at all. That is not how life works we all should be producing something for society.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the comment

[@lweidner6288]

I would rather be an insubordinate than agree to a write up that is completely falsified. I just got my 2nd and final write up tonight, and I refused to sign it. These write ups my boss does is a tactic to push out an employee he doesn't like.

[@peopleprocesses]

Thanks for the comment!