Empty Places: Buffy 7x19 Reaction

[@davidmeadows5627]

This episode might as well be titled "Buffy vs. Ungrateful Millennials."

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

the millenials aren't the problem in this episode. the scoobies are.

[@AKCFTW]

Except that, you know, almost none of them are millennials.

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

@@AKCFTW you might want to google "millenial", google when this season aired, and/or do a little math.

[@AKCFTW]

@sirmoonlosthismind I was talking about the actors. With the exception of Michelle Trachtenberg and like two others, nearly all of them are Gen X. Tony Head is obviously a Boomer. Most of them were born before 1981, meaning they’re not millennials.

[@davidmeadows5627]

@@AKCFTW But I was talking about the characters.

[@rowanmeredith]

I'm so protective over Buffy and she doesn't get nearly enough apologies in this show 😅 Don't worry this ep makes us all fuming x

[@JayceMaxwell]

This one pisses everyone off. Nearly every reactor is like "excuse me?!?!?"

[@oliviajane570]

If I was Buffy, my friends and fake family kicking me out of my own house would have been my villain origin story.

[@martellc1008]

Omg factssssz

[@vikkidonn]

She literally didn’t need any of this. It’s literally been faiths responsibility for years….. Buffy is just a goddess who knows none of these people can handle it

[@caitlin329]

Buffy is an infinitely stronger, kinder and more forgiving person than I will ever be with the amount of crap she puts up with from her 'friends'

[@Kthalma]

@@oliviajane570 If the series continued for another season with Buffy as the big bad, I wouldn't have batted an eye.

[@abbesatty9498]

This's "Dead Man's Party" with added betrayal.

[@davidmonaghan26]

As a General (that Giles wants her to become) she's not supposed to get to know the soldiers as friends as it WILL affect your decisions. This was an ABSOLUTE BETRAYAL.

[@GJS2183]

Exactly! Same thing with surgeons. You are not allowed to operate on a loved one because you need to see just a body in front of you to be able to do your job, not a person you have feelings for which might affect your skills. And betrayal is unforgivable in general. No discussion there.

[@anonymes2884]

Sure. But that's _not_ the right way to be. That's just _Giles'_ idea of the right way to be. They're _not_ soldiers, they're scared, hurt teenagers and from their perspective Buffy's treating them like disposable pieces in some game she's playing. The actual point is surely that consideration of lives lost _should_ affect her decisions (it has before) - if the plan isn't predicated on "Do everything you can to avoid anyone dying" then it's an inhumane plan and very _un_ Buffy (remember when simply killing Dawn - sacrificing _one_ life - would've saved the entire world and she point blank refused ? Presumably _then_ you thought Buffy was totally, utterly wrong ?). Do they approach it the right way ? _Absolutely_ not ! Buffy deserves to be treated with so much more respect. But I get where they're coming from - if it were _my_ life apparently being thrown away, i'd _also_ want a _lot_ more than "Do it because i'm telling you to".

[@johnmoreland6089]

True. And add to that the fact that in 7 (SEVEN!) years, Buffy's instincts have been dead on correct. Deaths and injuries happen in battle. It does NOT mean the battle was a mistake. Buffy has been carrying them all while they act like children. The whole storyline is so poorly written. None of what they said had been earned. Especially the crap coming from Willow and Dawn. (Xander gets a pass due to injury.)

[@JoshuaMartian-go3tm]

Giles was like that at the beginning when she first became her watcher. He's realized thru the years, friends like Xander, WIllow, Cordlia, Oz, Tara, Angel, Anya are assets for a Slayer.

[@vikkidonn]

@@anonymes2884they ARE soldiers…. Buffy’s two deaths taught us that. They were chosen by a bunch of men to carry this burden that no one other than them understands. They just got sped ran where Buffy got years of well…. Trial by fire and two deaths. This is what they are for. To fight evil until the die and pass the torch. Buffy can’t afford being so caught up on them dying she stops trying to fight evil. Their job/destiny is literally by any means necessary, she’s just the only one to actually have to do it until now. It seems like the scoobies are using the girls to expose what buddy has always known about them. They don’t have to do they won’t choose to. She’s always going to fight alone even when she shouldn’t or doesn’t have to. No one else there is like her for several reasons and she has to lead because no one else can. And then our boy sets them straight

[@alanbeers4808]

Alyson Hannigan crying at 2.25 and making everyone else automatically cry with her is her special magical ability. I genuinely don't think there are any better cryers in the biz.

[@hardybryan]

Spike's seasons long obsession with the bloomin' onion might be his most relatable trait. That thing is amazing when done right.

[@talesyuki]

Betrayal! Treachery! Conniving assholes!!!! Ok, that said, let's hit play. I'm just mad at them all in advance. xD

[@GJS2183]

💯

[@Smido83]

This entire squad of entitled, arrogant, ungratefull brats is the reason why season 7 is the worst for me. They are all extremely unlikable. And not just because of this episode. From the 1st second they showed up they had nothing to offer other then complaining. And worst of all, THAT BRAT is the one Willow chooses after Tara? Damnit, decades later and this entire group of wannabes makes me angry all over again!

[@GJS2183]

If I am the one who pays the bills you get out of my house, not me! Betrayal is unforgivable!

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

It's Dawn's house too. And Giles actually pays the bills?

[@JoshuaMartian-go3tm]

@@MrLorenzovanmatterho I was bout to say Giles big check. hahaha Technically no more bills since the bank is likely closed. lol

[@vikkidonn]

@@MrLorenzovanmatterhoGiles pays nothing actively as he left for months after giving that check and she HAD to go to work. So no…. And dawn is a child with no income, she lives where Buffy tells her to go or she’s homeless

[@kelseyisme7099]

@@MrLorenzovanmatterhoGiles gave her one check, and we don’t know for how much, a season ago. And she gets a job. Giles drifts in and out and we have no idea if he’s given her any more money. And regardless, none of the rest have contributed financially. So absolutely not. It was her mom’s house, and now hers. I’d love to see whose name the house is in. Not any of theirs. Only Buffy’s.

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

@@kelseyisme7099 Again, we don't know? How much has Giles been paying? Did Tara and Willow chip in? It's the Summers house, it belongs to the Summers girls, all of them.

[@ace360]

My only thing I loved in this was Spike and he's comedy gold Blooming Onion love😂, Other than that I remember when this episode happened.. Pure White hot Rage! The back stabbing and betrayal..I wanted All of them do die...I was ready for Spike to return and stomp a mud hole in Everyone! I was not disappointed! Next episode! Happy Halloween Dakara Stay awesome 🎃🤘

[@GJS2183]

Absolutely! Loved his reaction when he returned, my personal hero! 😅

[@ace360]

@GJS2183 Damn right! 👊 Definitely one of James Marsters favorite moments just pure Legend 💯

[@mrmidlife2546]

The band playing during an apocalypse are the living legends that are NERF HERDER!, Yeahh! 7 years of rocking us out every ep, they get to shine at the Bronze.

[@doug3691]

My favorite part of this one is the final conversation, on the porch, just Buffy and Faith. It's the most "Buffy" part of the episode, and it points to final steps before the end. This episode doesn't piss me off. It's a bunch of kids afraid to die, seeing that the new plan is the same as the old plan. And Buffy is unable to come up with a better one because she's off balance and scared: Caleb is manipulating her; Spike isn't present but Faith (an implicit challenge to her authority) is; she's responsible for a Large group of Potentials and doesn't know what to do with them; and of course she doesn't know how to defeat Caleb, much less The First Evil. And it's hard to be loyal to someone making a Fatal Mistake, who insists upon being in charge and giving orders and not discussing them. Buffy has done a lot right in the past, and become one of the most powerful Vampire Slayers ever. But she's never before insisted that her friends and allies die for her. In my opinion she Needs some time alone to sort some things out. Hope you feel better soon.

[@menachemsalomon]

That is put better than I've seen before, and I've read the comments to a bunch of reactions to this episode. Yes, Buffy's new plan isn't different enough from the old plan, which ended in disaster, and she hasn't given them a good reason to try it again besides a hunch. Her hunch ends up being accurate, but that doesn't mean it would have been right for her to risk everyone else. (And besides, her one-woman assault succeeded where a similar attack by a large group would have failed again.)

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

buffy doesn't HAVE a new plan, but she does have an objective. in the past, the others would provide their input as to HOW to accomplish it, rather than immediately turning on her. buffy is in the right and the scoobies are completely out of line.

[@samanthas8340]

Let's not forget she risked her own life everyday of 8 years and died twice so to ask others who were also "called" to stand beside her might not seem that ludicrous. It's like what Anya said but in reverse. So Buffy is the Chosen one and the Slayer just as long as it means she sacrifices herself for others but the second she expects a bit of thst in return = zero respect.

[@jayrobo2690]

I hate this episode... when Rhona says " Ding ding the witch is dead" rattled me to my core!! & Anya shocked me 😢

[@Kthalma]

The look Willow gave her... I think she took it as a Tara reference which made it slap so much harder.

[@GJS2183]

Clem was my favorite! ❤

[@ernesthakey3396]

He's cutting way back on the tiny tabbies!

[@pcoleman1971]

I think Clem is my favourite side character in the series. He always cracks me up.

[@Banterbear]

It was very weird, to the point it took me out of my suspension of disbelief, and into the space of, "oh, the writers are taking her to a low place for drama reasons, and that's why everyone is being out of character..." Also, Dawn kicked her out of her own house, which was probably the weirdest bit ...Buffy could have kicked all of the guests out, if it came to it🤣.

[@johnmoreland6089]

It was so poorly written. Just like Giles' betrayal with Wood, and the whole "Is Giles the first?" schtick. You can tell the writers were taking easy ways out for dramatic purposes when they would never have taken such poor writing short cuts in earlier seasons.

[@anonymes2884]

I dunno, given that almost the exact same scene played out in "Dead Man's Party" (another episode some fans dislike and for exactly the same reason :), I don't think it's out of character. And if the Scoobs themselves can act that way, the Potentials, who by _her_ own choice, barely even _know_ - let alone _like_ - Buffy _certainly_ can. The precursors to this aren't _super_ obvious but they're there IMO. Basically, it didn't feel weird to me at the time (it felt _infuriating_ - despite the fact that I actually understand and sympathise with the _crux_ of where they're coming from - but not weird).

[@Banterbear]

@@johnmoreland6089 Agreed. The Giles thing probably looked good on paper, but it was silly on the point of why didn't they just try and tap him on the back or something. In fact, they should have had a security system where everyone has to shake hands or some such at regular intervals to prove they aren't the big bad...especially as it could appear as Buffy. Sounds silly but you just would in that situation.

[@Banterbear]

@@anonymes2884 I agree on Dead Mans Party being a similar thing...but it was because they were taking out their pain at her leaving so suddenly and not telling them where she was, on her. They didn't want her to actually leave again, and it was mostly Xander if I remember, who was being the worst attacker? Who could generally be a bit of an ass in that respect anyway. In Sacrifice, it's the entire gang, including several close allies. You could understand the Potentials not quite being there with her, the others turning so abruptly seemed out of place...they should have a bit more trust at this point.

[@JoshuaMartian-go3tm]

They wrote her impulsive and cold not just in this episode. It was a whole arc in multiple episodes, but that just shows she's flawed and scared and unsure. Usually we see her confident, this time with the biggest threat she has doubt. I like the depth.

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

I understand why the others are freaking out and turning on her. They always felt a way about Buffy, felt entitled with her, insecure, but never addressed their issues for seasons and it blew up. They can't handle their lives being at risk like this, seeing Buffy losing and their judgement is all about staying alive, they're not thinking clearly. What Buffy is saying makes sense, she's used to being quick on her feet and now Spike and Andrew got "proof". Buffy was a slayer all this time risking her life because no one else would or could, they don't know what it's like. I remember when she shocked Riley by jumping headfirst in the hellmouth, she's selfless. Time is running so they have to take risks, they can't afford to sit back and wait for the enemy to gain more power. Buffy didn't need to be so cold that is true, but I agree they were also being difficult. Buffy has accepted her duty, her fate and the "death is your gift", she sees the bigger picture and will put her life on the line. She has a different mentality than the others.

[@vikkidonn]

Thank you. One of the only people to say this….. they are literally all weak and played hero where she didn’t have a real choice but to fight. This episode confirms EVERY SINGLE fear Buffy has had and talked about since coming back to life. Spike was literally the only one she could trust because he was the only one as strong as she is emotionally and mentally. As a side not willow doesn’t get enough hate for creating this entire situation. My girl literally forgives them so fast she almost pretends it didn’t happen. Literal single mother taking care of children

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

​@@vikkidonn Yeah Willow is annoying. When she almost got Dawn killed, Buffy didn't kick her out and helped her with her addiction. I always hated how they took Buffy for granted and pushed her around, she's way too nice and people take advantage of it. Buffy is very smart, but she keeps being treated like she's a dumb bimbo even by Willow out of all people. When she ran away traumatized after killing Angel, she was the bad guy for that while when Willow was left by Oz people let her deal with her emotions and didn't chastise her except when she endangered people with magic. Their reasons for resurrecting her were selfish when Faith is the current slayer and should have taken over. She brings meaning to their lives and they didn't know how to live without her while Dawn, Giles and Spike moved on and let her rest. I agree Spike is the only one who gets her and Tara was the only one who didn't look down on her or judge her. She couldn't even be herself around friends and family and that's sad.

[@vikkidonn]

@@user-dx2dm8oq8g yeah Tara who she told everything including her feelings for spike. Tara didn’t judged her and loved her for it only she and spike got Buffy’s trust that season. And they played it as if buffy didn’t care about Tara once she was gone and had it focused on willow. Which sure, but…. That’s major. As a slight side note I’ve yet to see anyone analyze the show from Buffy’s perspective as a character. Even when it comes to the “love triangle”. Her character is the most important and the most forgotten simultaneously

[@bugsby4663]

Looking at from Buffy's point of view, she plans to go into a situation with two slayers and a powerful witch so what else could she do? Anya - you didn't earn it - Buffy - hey I died twice. I was so angry by their betrayal.

[@killianlpc]

Hey Dak! That's the wrong title you have that is from Series 4 Episode 19 New Moon Rising. This is 7x19 called Empty Places!

[@crawdaddy2004]

I noticed that, too.

[@abbesatty9498]

Very strange. In the thumbnail, before I clicked, it says "New moon rising: 7x19" but after clicking on it it says "Empty places: 7x19". generally, KZbin has glitches as it mixes channel names relative to titles but this's a bit peculiar.

[@killianlpc]

@@abbesatty9498 I think she fixed it. Other that than Spooky!

[@BuhByeBirdy]

Till this day I’m still on Buffy’s side. Then to turn on Buffy when she’s never turned her back on them…

[@treyokelly9662]

The mutiny does feel like it comes out of left field. It should have waited an episode.

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

they're out of episodes. everything from here on is a bit rushed to fit.

[@pcoleman1971]

"What i would do to be Andrew right now." Ooh Dakara. ❤

[@ernesthakey3396]

I actually think this episode needed to happen. Buffy was struggling, she didn't really know what she needed to do and she needed some time apart from her huge responsibilities to get some clarity and reflect on the situation. She is giving orders at this point, but not leading in a way that they can follow any more. Faith giving the kids a break and the group bonding in the fight against the cops helped everyone come together without Buffy. It was a tough situation, and it definitely felt like a betrayal, it wasn't done in the best of ways, but Buffy did the right thing outside talking to Faith, giving her best advice as she passed the baton, albeit grudgingly. Now we put Faith to the test, give everyone else a taste of her leadership. The ending? Not gonna spoil it, just keep watching...and have Faith. 😉

[@Nexusofgeek]

yes I agree with this assessment. Usually people don't acknowledge Buffy was a little of her game

[@fanmagicks]

Except for Giles shaming the core ecologies for blowing off steam in less dramatic fashion just a few dps back then ENCOURAGING Faith to take out a whole group of underage girls who quite literally have targets painted on them for a "night off"? Giles burns me up in this season. He's NOT Giles. Willow and Xander are still OOC (Xander gets injured and Willow can't even tell how much it's eating Buffy up? They both know she's not been sleeping for days/weeks while STILL FIGHTING! Giles forces her to be " A general " but the moment she disagrees with him and shows she's out grown a watcher, she's untrustworthy? Blame "The First" but I blame lazy writers cramming for finals.

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

@@fanmagicks It's in character for me. Their lack of communication and accountability is the source of this. Spike when he didn't have a soul and had a chip noticed this and used it to divide them, the first is probably feeding into it and the fear is amping it up. Giles was always insecure about his place in Buffy's life, we started seeing it when she was in college, Willow sometimes hates seeing Buffy in charge because she sees herself as just as strong and qualified, Xander always felt like he owned Buffy for some reason, Dawn always craved Buffy's approval and attention. Spike (with a soul) and Tara were the only ones who didn't want anything from her and actually respected her, never insulted her the way her friends do... They saw Buffy getting her ass whopped and they're losing it, when the focus should be more "we need to stop the apocalypse", death might be inevitable here but they don't get it. Buffy is ready to die if need be, that's what being a slayer is like and they can't handle being in the same position.

[@yorkshirespider-man]

I’m absolutely furious still with how they treat Buffy in this episode - especially Willow & Xander

[@blackkatt777]

Me and my friends were absolutely livid during this episode, and were raging for a few hours after it. I was saying the audacity of Dawn (who barely existed a few months ago) kicking Buffy out of her own home. Xander finally suffers sacrificing something and just like that, his earlier speech is null and void? Willow caves when Xander gets hurt, at a critical time when she should see the bigger picture, like she's always done when being Buffy's 2nd in command. Buffy actually said that she was willing to hear ideas, but all they did was have a go at her. Anya having the nerve to open her mouth about Buffy not earning her abilities, when she's proven that exact point time and again...plus, Buffy literally saved her life a few weeks ago from D'hoffryn's minions. I think Giles is lashing out because of the way she dismissed him after going behind her back. He claimed she wasn't acting like a general, but that's exactly what she was doing. They both agreed that the girls needed to be tested, until recent events soured between them, coincidentally. Robin should have kept his mouth shut, and the potentials contributed nothing to their own survival except complaints. I was done with them.

[@gingerwizard9849]

The fact that people are leave en masse and yet the Bronze is still open and busy tells you everything you need to know about Sunnydale!

[@arc7375]

Originally, Xander was supposed to die, which is why the house turned against her - especially Willow and Anya. The decision was changed close to last minute, but a lot of the plot beats remained, like the united front against Buffy.

[@danwiesdamageinc]

7:00 The last night at The Bronze to see Nerf Herder - the band that wrote and performed the theme song.

[@darklink17ful]

The thing that always kills me about this episode is the "you never earned it" She spent 7 seasons fighting uphil. She has strength, but at a cost. Her methods, skills, and planning was all earned. It spits in the face of the entire series that they throw that out. Obviously i dont think the show thinks this, but it was rough to see her friends not push back against this.

[@vikkidonn]

She became the slayer and became aware at the age of 14/15, and watched her original slayer die (can’t remember if the watcher from the movie was erased as the core details were kept as canon). She then died THE FIRST TIME at the age of 16. Willingly and begrudgingly to save the world. She drown. Came back and kept fighting even though her work was done. It was Kendra’s burden but she still fought. After Kendra it was faith, and yet she knew she was still needed and she kept fighting. While faith was weak and going through a redemption arc Buffy shouldered the burden for her and everyone else including the military 💀. Faith should have been leading this charge from the start but Giles ran to Buffy…. Just like the monks did with dawn, and even the first in its fear of her leadership. She died again to save the world and a literal energy source made human. They couldn’t let her rest and had her working fast food. She still kept fighting even when it was destroying her already fragile state. They got mad at her for not being well adjusted and not being her old self. Bunch of bums they confirmed these characters to be. It retroactively recontextualizes their arcs to this point

[@Heldemon]

Well, from what several people have said, Xander was supposed to have died, but they changed their minds. They didn't really change much which this scene though so that is why willow and anya seem more upset/angry?

[@soullesschicken4069]

while i hate everyone turning on buffy, looking back, it does make sense not just because nobody agreed with buffy's plan but also because buffy has been steadily alienating every single person in that room for the whole duration of this season. kicking her out of her own house is a bit overboard though

[@tylerwade6539]

This is a complete 180 for me and I'm pissed, if they were going to have everyone turn on Buffy they should have done more build up for it. But this even with Xander losing his eye, just feels like a 180 to me.

[@METerrell]

This is also reminiscent of when Spike, acting on behalf of Adam in season 4, gets them all fighting with each other & especially attacking Buffy.

[@dayceem]

I think what we have to grasp here is that the potentials just watched Buffy, Faith, and Spike getting their a** handed to them and several of their comrades die, then Caleb casually says 'What else you got?'. They aren't just concerned; they're TERRIFIED. To them, Caleb is UNSTOPPABLE. Along comes Buffy who says let's go again, and the potentials think it's just going to be a repeat performance. Of course they're going to reel. I think this is a brilliantly written representation of just how a mutiny might unfold when people are speaking not from their mind but from their instinct for survival. "Ding dong the witch is dead"... good riddance to the source of our impending demise.

[@stormwreath]

As far as the Potentials are aware, Buffy isn't a hero who's saved the word multiple times. She's just the person they were sent to for safety when everyone around them was getting killed; but she doesn't pay them much attention and to date hasn't been very successful in keeping them alive. (Faith's comment about Buffy not learning their names really hit home.) Even if they have heard the original Scoobies going on about how great Buffy is, that doesn't match the evidence of their own eyes so far. I'm not criticising Buffy here. She's carrying a burden that we viewers can see, but the Potentials can't. I'm saying that from their angle, we can't blame them for not having the same view of Buffy that we have. I also think that the fight at the end of the episode blew up out of nowhere. It wasn't that they planned to bring all those points up then and there, but things got out of control. And frankly, Buffy saying, "Well, our last attack on the vineyard was a disaster; some of your friends were killed, others were crippled, but I think we should do the same thing again" IS a bad idea. At the end of Season 5 they had a group brainstorming session on ways to defeat Glory. Here, Buffy is just giving them orders - and they don't like those orders. Personally, I blame Giles for telling her she has to act like a general. She's trying to do things the Watchers' Council way, not the Buffy way. Also, the scene where they vote to kick Buffy out of the Summers house probably seemed less jarring back in 2003 when the TV show Big Brother was a huge international success...

[@anonymes2884]

"I also think that the fight at the end of the episode blew up out of nowhere." Yep, important point. This wasn't like an "intervention" where they ambushed Buffy, this was a meeting of a lot of scared, hurt people (almost all of whom _aren't_ superheroes) that escalated out of control. I don't think it was totally "out of nowhere" in the sense that there were signs in previous episodes _and_ some old tensions playing a role IMO. Because of their past Buffy can't fully accept that Faith might _really_ be kinda on her side for instance so at the first sign of _any_ pushback she attacks and it's then in _Faith's_ nature to respond by being combative rather than de-escalating. Then there's the Giles/Buffy stuff, her relationship (or lack thereof) with the Potentials etc. But it's not _planned_ (which I think is what you mean :).

[@susanberrier5727]

The only way i can watch this and not hate every person in that room besides Buffy, is to remember the First was influencing everybody in the town. They werent immune.

[@anonymes2884]

Hah, I don't agree that's what's happening but I _do_ like that head-canon, neat idea :).

[@vikkidonn]

@@anonymes2884yeah because even if that’s a thing none of them lied lol

[@aliciasavage6801]

yeah I think this episode pisses everyone off

[@menachemsalomon]

There's something I find quirky about an "ancient inscription" on a church in California. Where an "ancient church" can't be more than 300 to 400 years old. On a trip to London, I realized that "ancient" means 900 to 1000 years old, like Windsor Castle and the Tower of London. (I haven't been to the North, sorry ma'am.) I spent some time in a school in Israel, though, where "ancient" means twice that, around 2000 years (Herodian construction) and older. And I haven't been to Egypt, where "ancient" means 3000 to 4000 years old.

[@TenebrousFilms]

The most ironic thing is that the show suggests pigs need a hellmouth to be violent arseholes. The most *stupid* thing is even the core scoobies turning on Buffy. Dawn kicking her out of *their* house? What the hells.

[@Teeklin]

Just a head's up, New Moon Rising is season 4 episode 19, not season 7 :P

[@SilentBob731]

2:22 M'Lady, that's because Alyson Hannigan is an amazing actress and the best crier in the business. She is, in all ways, irresistible. 😢😻 3:11 Bullet points from this meeting... -Teeth -Claws -Makeup Sex 🤣 5:20 Not to pick, but that looks more like a Dairy Queen Blizzard than a coffee. 9:53 Pretty sure Andrew wearing a football helmet instead of a motorcycle helmet here is a nod to Jack Nicholson's character in "Easy Rider". 12:01 The scene that splits a Fandom.... 14:40 Not hard to see where Dakara lands. 😂

[@killianlpc]

The last few episodes of the S7 had so much going on it was hard to keep up. The way they all turned against Buffy after all she had done for them over the years was so painful to watch at the time. Kennedy and Rhona were utterly despicable, along with the rest of the Scooby Gang. All this leads up to the brilliance of the last few episodes, super writing again, but Andrew is still utterly irritating if entertaining also. Spike reading the scripture, brilliant foreshadowing here. Buffy is of course right they always try to protect the power, they must return to the vineyard, there is a reason for Caleb wanting to defend it. This episode is all about the meeting in Buffy's house this is so difficult to watch with Dawn striking the final blow, after Buffy laid down her very life to save her. We know there is only one who will stand by Buffy, even though he is not at the meeting he has read the scripture 'it is not for thee, it is for her alone to wield'.

[@GJS2183]

💯 I never liked Dawn, but that was the last nail in the coffin. Claiming that it's her house too and Buffy needs to leave when she never lifted a finger and Buffy had to find a second job (apart from fighting evil) right after she was ripped out of heaven by her "friends", being a mom to Dawn even though she just lost her mom too and still nothing was ever enough, it was always about Dawn, Dawn, Dawn. Really grateful...

[@ZonycOrder]

Something I took from this just after watching your reaction is that responsibility and authority to some extend go together. The slayer's responsibility was put onto Buffy, so naturally she has the authority and people need to follow her. As Faith and Buffy both said, they are "The Law". People can't expect them to take on this responsibility, if they don't trust their judgement. While the distrust after the confrontation with Caleb is justified, they should be able to compromise on some other solution than "If you're not with us, you have to leave".

[@67Daidalos]

Yes, whenever I watch this argument scene, I can't help myself but seeing the writing crew just putting it there just for the sake of fitting the "argument isolating the hero just before the final resolution where everything is forgiven" trope. And though I get why the Potentials could turn against Buffy, it felt a bit too much out of characters for Willow and Xander (especially just after Xander's speech in the previous episode). For Dawn, it might have helped if they'd reminded us in this episode or the one before, but it definitely came from the doubt that Joyce/The First instilled in her in Conversation with Dead People (and yes, it's said that the actress refused to came if it was to portray an evil version of Joyce, but let's be honest, why would the real Joyce would have phrase it like that, it was definitely meant to put a rift between the two sisters... a mother wouldn't have wanted that).

[@grkpektis]

I wonder if Andrew would've ganged up on Buffy with the rest of them

[@blortmeister]

So so sorry about the Tim Hortons. Wasn't good even when it was Canadian, just had the name. Not that I wish Starbucks on you, but I do understand about limited options. I live in a small town and when our best coffee shop was going to close we turned it into a community-owned co-operative. Can't be without good coffee and a good third space.

[@balletabela]

This is one of those few cases the writers manufactured conflict with no reasoning. Some of the the downhill things in an otherwise stellar show.

[@wolandbegemotazazello]

Whedon and Company told us what the theme of season seven was about; “it’s about the power”. Buffy has often been authoritarian or dictatorial during some of this season and now. Buffy, of course, was offered more power earlier this season, more male power, more darker power. Where does it go from here?

[@jspettifer]

IT IS HER HOUSE

[@JustJames83]

Dawn! Do you pay these bills? No! You don’t so shut your mouth about half your house, you should all leave! This is my house!! *rages*

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

"No but I inherited the house when you died and as Giles and Willow are my legal guardians it really belongs to them".

[@farfrompoo]

Back when this was broadcast, I felt the whole rebellion thing was over-dramatized. It wouldn't have happened like that. I still feel the same.

[@darklink17ful]

I do think Faith was on Buffys side. I think she wanted a dialog, and once it got out of hand she seemed a bit shook

[@MrDWinter]

I get where they’re all coming from. They’re terrified, and with good reason. And Buffy’s not doing anything to reassure them. She hasn’t found a way to connect with any of the Potentials all season. She isn’t selling them on her plan to go back in there, she’s just telling them “we’re doing it”. She’s not giving them any reason to believe their second fight with Caleb is going to go any better, so they probably feel like she doesn’t care. I think it’s always interesting how Buffy talks about “I’m the Chosen One, none of you can understand what that feels like or what it means, it’s so lonely, also you need to follow me” - but there’s Faith, right there, exactly as Chosen as Buffy. And here she is in the same room, and Buffy still doesn’t think to recognize her, much less reach out seek her support. (Imagine what might have been if Buffy had actually opened up to Faith instead of shutting her out back in S3.) This is where all that self-isolating gets her, and I think the show is putting her in a place to learn and grow.

[@anonymes2884]

Right. Essentially she took Gile's advice to become an aloof General, separate from and callous towards her "men" and it was _bad_ advice (much as most of us love him and especially their relationship, Giles _is_ still the show's representative of "old world patriarchy" and as such, his way of doing things isn't always the best and it _certainly_ isn't always Buffy's way - in fact that she often goes her own way is one of the things that makes her special and of course that's _exactly_ how things eventually play out).

[@Kthalma]

I feel like the season 7 version of some of these characters is an assassination. Particularly of Giles. It's like some of them forgot past lessons only the dredge up same conflicts rather badly. I also feel this way about season 4 of AtS. As far as "favorite buffyverse seasons" go, both rank rather low for me for this reason alone, even though there are still some parts I enjoyed.

[@luckyrobinshomestead]

Yeah, I really kind of hate this episode. It was only a couple episodes ago when they were saying that Buffy had earned the right to be trusted. So it doesn't make much sense, except I think Xander's injury and Molly's death and Rona (the witch is dead girl) getting her arm snapped really caused some fear, bitterness, and upset. It got real for everyone and they got super scared. Giles should know better though. I feel like he's struggling to be in charge again after being gone for over a year. I believe it is the next episode that I really love, though, and has my favorite scene of the entire show.

[@TerryNutkins3]

Xander lost an eye so the whole group lost it's perspective

[@austinseven4720]

The scene forced some out of character behaviour to produce 'drama.' While kicking her out was ridiculous, it covers up the truth that Buffy WAS reckless. She charged into the vineyard without any information on Caleb. Xander lost an eye, several potentials lost their lives. And then she goes back and suggests they do the exact same thing again. Rightly or wrongly, there was no way anybody was going to be ok with that 'plan.' The rest of it is a bit OTT which is what tends to piss people off.

[@Heldemon]

I've seen people say Xander was actually supposed to die, but they changed their minds, but didn't really change this scene much.

[@LiamDunn-rx8dy]

Coffee Break! :D

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

It's Dawn's house too. Which doesn't mean Dawnie shouldn't kick Rhona in the face!

[@vikkidonn]

It’s not dawns house. She’s a humanoid energy ball that is biologically Buffy’s child. Fake memories be damned. She’s also a child with no money. She has no say about living arrangements

[@russellward4624]

You've got Tim Hortons in england?

[@34powerman]

Yup, and in Ireland too. But like only in big cities. Like dublin, they are not that many around the country, especially Ireland.

[@DakaraJayne]

@@russellward4624 doesn't taste as good as when I got it in Canada but it's close as I can get haha

[@Nicolas.Vincent]

​@@DakaraJayne 🇨🇦✌

[@claricehoffer1874]

My take on this episode's ending, after years of rewatches, is that Buffy was wrong and being hasty, however, the rest were worse to verying degrees. Xander I somewhat give a pass to because he just lost his eye and was probably on some significant pain meds. Essentially his filter was gone and he was upset. Faith was pissed after the Bronze but I dont think she inteneded a cue, she just wanted to talk the plan out. Giles I think sensed Buffy was in a place needing to rest, but rather than say that he let his emotions over Buffy defying him about Spike cloud things. Wood had no room because this is the man who let the First manipulate him into trying to kill one of Buffy's allies during an apocalypse. Anya was flat out of line and being a bitch, plain and simple. The potentials, while understandable to a point, were being cowards. They were also being selfish in that they seem to be insulted that Buffy hadn't just stopped the First all alone their first week at her house. I also find it intersting they all forget that while Buffy's initial attack on the vineyard was a disaster Anya, Xander, and Willow are to blame for the First trying to take over.

[@caseyhart4999]

I don’t think there is anything between both shows that enrages me the way the final scene of this episode does. I’m absolutely disgusted every single time.

[@kendavis8046]

Oddly, there was a point to this episode. Bear in mind how close we are to the end of the series. Typical Whedon story arc, if Buffy dies in three episodes, it is because she has lost her support group of the Scooby] Gang and Giles. No, not spoiling, it'll make sense even though this was an episode that angered most of the fandom when it aired.

[@manni2101]

....🙋🏼‍♂️ ☀️ 🌈

[@DakaraJayne]

@@manni2101 hey Manni long time

[@user-knightoftherealms]

Buffy needs time to get her head on straight. Everyone turning on her wasn't a good thing, but it may have been what she needed. She has to find herself, to come to grips with the fact that she is the one that needs to be able to thread the needle so to speak. I hope you're drinking more than coffee(Tim Hortons is okay, but not as good as Starbucks). You soup, and tea, and - I know it sounds gross - warm lemonade. Most importantly you need rest, and I hope you're getting some.

[@davidmonaghan26]

She was correct that's where the power item was. She was willing to talk about strategies not let's go right now. It's a war where a battle has to happen. And time is of the essence. She's saved the world countless times made the hard decisions lost a LOT to be ambushed by a bunch of kids and her friends

[@anonymes2884]

Exactly. Her approach was basically, do the same thing again, at least as far as _they_ knew. She was playing the General and using them as soldiers, _going in_ with the mindset that it's OK to lose a few, partly because she'd distanced herself from them to _avoid_ feeling their loss (basically, she took Giles' advice and it was _bad_ advice and _very_ not Buffy. Remember when she risked the entire world to avoid sacrificing _one_ life ? _That's_ Buffy - not some aloof General but a caring, compassionate frikkin' _superhero_ yo :). How they treat her is _utterly_ despicable but I totally get where they're coming from. And being knocked back, being reminded that she's _not_ some army general and they're _not_ disposable canon fodder, is _exactly_ what Buffy needs. She regroups, _completely_ changes her approach to one of guile over a brute force attack and sure enough, she wins the day (essentially, she starts acting much more like _special forces_ than regular army and it works both as a tactic _and_ to show her _teammates_ that she's willing to risk her own life every day of the week and twice on Sunday in order to spare theirs).

[@JoshuaMartian-go3tm]

I agree, Buffy wasn't open to suggestions, regardless it was extreme to kick her out. Especially from the newbs. Not smart to kick out the strongest soldier.

[@JoshuaMartian-go3tm]

@@anonymes2884 Yes from their perspective, she's leading them to the slghter on a hunch.

[@CharmedTrailers]

new moon rising😭

[@cryptoeatstheworld3379]

It was betrayal, plain and simple. Giles should have been the adult in the room and gotten everyone to express their concerns in a more productive way, but instead he decided it was more important to be butthurt about being called out about his previous betrayal of Buffy. Dawn kicking Buffy out, saying “this is my house too“, is rich. Weren’t you a ball of energy a couple years ago? You neither grew up in that house nor do you pay any of its bills

[@Buffy8Fan]

Wrong title. This is _Empty Places._ Edit: It's corrected. Any in-fighting the group does is supporting The First because in-fighting is The First's biggest tool against the group. Whether it was telling Wood, as his mother, who murdered his mother, or whether it was The First telling Dawn, as Joyce, Buffy won't choose her, which I think is what caused Dawn to say in this episode, "Then you can't stay here." Dawn's not choosing Buffy before Buffy doesn't choose her, thus playing even further into The First's hands. This moment goes against what many people defending The Scoobies say, which is the fact that if everyone wanted a new leader, due to Xander losing an eye, kicking Buffy out wasn't the right option. Buffy told the group she couldn't save everyone in war and has been warning Xander how dangerous slaying is since the second episode of the series ("Xander, this is deeply dangerous"). I disagree with said new leadership of Faith, as does Faith herself, but the group is so against Buffy, they don't listen to Faith. Kicking Buffy out creates in-fighting The Fist clearly wants. Also, Buffy's house (as of the beginning of this episode) is the only place in Sunnydale vampires don't have entrance to, so kicking her out (whether they assume she can handle herself or not) is a mistake. Xander not only retcons everything good he says about Buffy during his earlier episode speech (the one that had Buffy crying happy tears) by kicking her out, but in the two hour pilot when Buffy says, "Xander, this is deeply dangerous." he dismisses her, thinking she's looking down on him when she is actually telling him directly of dangers. The fact that he dismisses this and thinks Buffy's thinking him, "less than a man," compared to what he's saying now, shows a long term-ness of never really taking Buffy seriously in these type of situations. I criticize him (and everyone else) for not listening to all her (including the S7) speeches or any other moments like those. The writers stated in behind the scenes footage that Xander losing an eye is the reason behind the kicking Buffy out moment. There's a little more to it, but it would be spoiler-y past this episode. The other argument I’ve seen fans against Buffy say is to argue the fact that Buffy leaves willingly. The defense I have there is that it is the difference between a person resigning and a person getting fired. Resigning, in this case, is getting fired without the higher ups saying so. The argument of Buffy leaving on her own is Buffy "resigning" herself to the fact that she isn't The General anymore and doesn't want to in-fight, as The First wants. Its just another form of getting kicked aka "fired" from being The General because The Scoobies don't trust her leadership due to being scared because they haven't been taking Buffy seriously. Anya was one of four people who resurrected Buffy (the others being Willow, Tara and Xander) and therefore allowed The First to create the S7 plot of killing the slayer line. She, Giles and possibly Willow know this, so them blaming Buffy for anything happening, when the entirety of why its happenning is on their shoulders, is not okay. It is also a joke to have Anya say Buffy didn't earn the role of slayer or general, considering everything Buffy has done for them. The list on that, could go on for 104 hours and 34 minutes (the length of the series to this point). And on top of that, Anya didn't earn her power either. She was given it so she could murder, torture, etc., which she did through the power of the wish. Why did Giles call Buffy the general of the group if he was just going to undermine her at every decision he didn't like and toss her out when things went wrong? Buffy warned them all things like this would happen. Why weren't they listening? Post S6 Willow has a lot of nerve calling Buffy on a lack of judgement. Didn't the Scoobies (including Dawn) learn anything from when Joyce kicked Buffy out in S2? It's a good thing Buffy has grown emotionally since then. Too bad the group still don't trust Buffy any more, since then. Buffy brought up certain points to Xander during their _Selfless_ fight about what it means to be The Slayer, so the fact that the group, in this episode, are throwing those moments in Buffy's face (those moments specifically being: cutting herself off, someone needing to draw a line, having no guide book to the job of a slayer [and there is a slayer guidebook/handbook, Giles just never gives it to her, so that one is on him], and fighting alone), shows, once again, The Scoobies haven't been listening to Buffy, even before the war with The First started about even the moments not involving The First and its war. Buffy learns from her mistakes. I don't always feel Xander and Willow do. If they still don't understand Buffy's decisions, and are throwing insults at her, I just don't feel they have learned what they should already know about Buffy seven seasons later. Buffy has learned from Giles' "this isn't a joke" chastisement in _First Date,_ while none of the other Scoobies did, if they were recently going to The Bronze for fun. Giles himself seemed to revert, if he is urging the fun after the _First Date_ chastisement, or at least he has an agenda of his own that goes against what he said when he called Buffy the general upon first showing up in Sunnydale. The group go against everything Buffy learned in _First Date, Never Kill a Boy on the First Date_ and _Reptile Boy_ when they kick Buffy out. Buffy may or may not have a good idea in going back to the vineyard. Risky either way. Just like war always is. That is not the problem. The real problem is Xander's eye is a moment when the group finally realize Buffy has been right about the danger, and are taking it out on her because she is the General. I get that The Scoobies and SIT's are scared, but none of what they do in kicking Buffy out does anything except exactly what The First wants.

[@willparks3429]

They were all affected by the hell mouth just like the cops were and made them extra aggressive

[@pixy-onewing]

❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍

[@keithbird8910]

It doesn't make sense that they would all turn on her like that. Ok, I get that it's a plot device to ramp up the drama but even so. The potentials might be persuaded, but Giles, Willow, Xander? After all they've been through together? No, sorry, doesn't ring true.

[@MrSupertallblackman]

No one EVER actually pays attention to what the argument is about. Being right is not the same thing as being correct. Being a "leader" doesnt mean just telling people what to do and expecting them to do it without question.

[@tehcoolemu]

So many things to fume about in that little ambush at the end, but what especially gets me is how Xander could say these things so soon after his big "Buffy's earned our trust" speech. Seriously? One plan goes poorly, and you throw out the last 7 years? And Anya calling her "lucky" was just... wow. The tension isn't coming completely out of nowhere, but I still find that scene to be pretty out of character for a lot of people. I think the writers just needed a way to get Buffy out of the house to make the Spike mini-arc happen, and this was what they came up with. Not the best writing of the show, IMO.

[@CvSp22]

Rhonda is her name and she is the most annoying one. The only person i can stand in that scene is Faith, and she was the only one who followed her out. I really wished they would have made this moment longer, imagine she says 'Stick arround, they don't know but i do that you'll be needed more sooner than later' and then a gentle physical gesture (taking her hand, stroking her cheek/hair/head, giving her a hug or a kiss on forehand/cheek/lips). Would have been a wonderful improvement.

[@bellapeterson94]

For me i don’t really blame the potential or faith in this. However the scoobies! Omg i wanted to slap them in this. Buffy has saved them all many times and yes they’ve all helped her BUT she never asked for it. From the start of this show it was evident that a slayer fights alone but they wanted to be a part of the fight. Yet buffy has been the one to not only fight but also she DIED twice for the cause. And then they dragged her out of heaven because they missed her only to question her like this? Sure u can have opinions but to do it like this is crazy. And anya is the worst here… Also this is her house, she owns it. Why should she go? Like i said i don’t blame faith because she is trying to understand while still saying her point. The potentials are scared girls who doesn’t know the history and they don’t get it. But yeah the willow, xander, anya and giles don’t get any synpathy from me in this. I love willow but not in this situation. And xander is just… no hes not it. The ONLY 2 people that would’ve stood up for buffy in this would’ve been Spike or Angel. No matter what ship you support it’s a fact that they would never have let it happen like this

[@dlangley49]

Felt like this should have had more build-up, without another episode or 2 to build it up it felt like drama for drama's sake here at the end. It does lead to a couple great character moments later on but still felt out of pocket

[@rexfordformilos4808]

Where's your Agatha All Along series reaction videos? 😢

[@jmlchaosdragon]

2 potential die(i think), 1 lost an eye, others got injure and buffy say let's go back for round 2 or more like round 3 because i got beat up again when i was alone with the priest. At that point buffy got no plan and is reckless. Should they have take her aside and tell her it was a stupid idea instead of doing it in front of everyone... absolutely. but at the same time buffy keep pushing those situation where it's my way or no way and it's the moment that it come to a boiling point and everyone is on edge.

[@jensen893]

Buffy was right though there was a weapon there. However she should have taken just the original gang the strongest. To be honest she didn't need any of them but her. She's the one that gets it and saves there asses after faith leads them to a bomb

[@Heldemon]

@@jensen893 And she didn't know that. It's a lot easier to win, when she doesn't have a dozen+ easily killable people there with her. But that was the issue, she had no problems sacrificing them as long as she achieved her goal, which was based on a hunch. She still needed a little help as well in that fight.

[@jensen893]

Expect she did know that hence her willingness ...​@@Heldemon I do think should have came up with a better plan though

[@Heldemon]

@@jensen893 When and how did she know this? I thought it wasn't til spike came back from the mission that giles sent him on that convinced her for sure?

[@jensen893]

@Heldemon no she knew something was in that barn, but she shouldn't have taken the potentials. They thought it was a trap but really it was just made to look like that,to hide the weapon. Spike gave her the motivation to get it

[@trufamilybromontqc]

This episode pisses me off next level honestly

[@arc7375]

1:17 I thought you were drinking Fairy Liquid for a second!

[@Heldemon]

Pretty sure everyone hates ding dong girl.

[@MH-jx1hc]

Not a fan of the episode. It's not like a dislike the tone, it just felt rushed. Everyone turning on Buffy so quickly, it just did not feel as well developed as the vast majority of Whedon's long term plot lines. Turn on Buffy, fine, but the build-up felt like something from another show.

[@anonymes2884]

Yep, a doozy indeed :). _Excruciating_ to watch but... they're not wrong IMO. Buffy _hasn't_ kept them ALL safe, Potentials have died, Xander's maimed and she wants to go back in again, apparently with no new approach ? How many Potentials does she consider acceptable losses _this_ time ? Buffy isn't wrong either, not in her _aim_ but she _is_ willing to throw their lives away by her _methods_ and when it's _your_ life it's not just collateral damage. To Buffy they're soldiers and she's their General but no one is just a piece to be played. So I get where they're coming from even if the way they did it is _so_ wrong and nasty and infuriating and... all the things :). Plus, regardless of all that nuance, Rona can _absolutely_ just f*ck right off - "Ding dong, the witch is dead" !??? No. Just no. When _you've_ died twice literally saving the world THEN _maybe_ you get to say things like that. I'm really glad Dawn went for her in that moment both on an emotional level and because not doing so would've hurt the point being made in the scene. (lots of fans use what happens next to try to claim that Buffy was right all along but to me they're missing a major element that'll hopefully be apparent)

[@ThePharaz]

Maybe you need to hug your cat.

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

Don't we all!

[@datasafe00]

Buffy was right the rest were garbage. The fact the bought her back from the DEAD to fight their battles and they have the audacity to kick her out of HER house 😂. Slice it which ever way Buffy is the leader and the rest fall in line.

[@TristanaPalmer]

I hate this scene so much, always did, always will...Yes, flash back from Dead Man's Party...it doesn't matter how many years pass by, the fact to have seen the whole show or not, I hate it. I have to confess that this scene changed my way to see the characters, I've never been able to forget or forgive. The potentials, I don't like most of them & their behavior doesn't matter to me. Faith, I can understand her reaction, that's totally ok for me. BUT, all the others, Anya, Giles, Xander, Willow and Dawn, oh My, awful...We forgive Willow a lot during the whole show (Anya too). We had so many hints that led to that scene. It's always bothered me, to me this is their true colors.

[@allocat586]

12:48 nobody does

[@vodkatonyq]

Most controversial episode. Looking forward to you reacting to the last few episodes.

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

More than Becoming 2?

[@darklink17ful]

Honestly, Giles 100% is on his jelious era. First he makes a massive deal about buffy having a blind spot for spike, when he was the one fixating on being right about him being evil. Then he went behind her back to keep her busy with a weird power trip training session. And you could see him go pale when he found out Spike was still alive Now that he know she doesnt need him, he's convinced shes off the rails.

[@lk9650]

Buffy should have reminded Dawn that she is not her real sister and the house belongs to Buffy.

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

Dawn should have reminded Buffy that she inherited it when Buffy died!

[@Nicolas.Vincent]

​@@MrLorenzovanmatterhoNo she didn't! Buffy Bot inherited Buffy's life until she returned! Dawn's never owned anything!

[@JoshuaMartian-go3tm]

What a dmb thread.

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

@@Nicolas.Vincent buffybot has no legal status

[@MrLorenzovanmatterho]

@@JoshuaMartian-go3tm What a dumb reply!

[@mylvem7270]

I think the person that pissed me off the most was Anya. Everyone else I understand, although, they have been by Buffy’s side the longest so I expected better from them. Regardless, Anya was very out of line because she is very selfish we have seen this trait of hers in past episodes. I feel like Anya has had that thought before and only now she said it outloud. Willow, Xander and Dawn I now they are hurt but deep down they love Buffy and they said what they said out of hurt. I also think Buffy felt relieved at the end because it is a lot of responsibility to carry. Of course she is hurting by what everybody said, except the potentials. I guess it’s more the betrayal of Giles, and that everyone blamed her for what happened which she already blamed herself for. On that note, I always remember that season 1 she would tell Willow, Xander and Giles to stay away because they would get hurt and she wouldn’t be able to protect them, and they still INSISTED on helping. I am team Buffy through and through, after 20 years since I saw that episode. Buffy is the GOAT. ❤

[@AnatoleVGC]

The worst scene in the whole show. They could have made that conflict in a way that didnt feel so awkward and undeserved. Faith line of "I dont know if I can lead but the real question is: can you follow?" Is actually an amazing line and makes sense. But its like you said, it feels like we missed an episode. Its similar to Tara and willow first fight were Tara out of nowhere question if willow will stay a lesbian or if its just experimentation. Feels like a bullet point they had to do but didnt figure how to arrive at it

[@DudeLongcouch]

I think it's best to contextualize the betrayal as an act of group fear, not necessarily a lack of faith in Buffy. Not that it makes it much better. I dunno, it's hard to defend lol. The writers did the best they could, but really, they just needed this episode to happen so that they could have two of the greatest moments in the entire show next episode ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@AaronHunter]

I understand why they do it, and I understand why the narrative 'needs' it. But it's a rare case in Buffy where the writers really really fumbled. I think a scene in, like Potential or First Date or Get it Done, where Dawn and Willow talk, Dawn brings up what Joyce said in Conversations ..., and Willow says something like, "I'm worried you might be right" ... Coupled with the growing distance between B and Giles, it might have at least sowed the seeds more clearly.

[@Smido83]

This entire squad of entitled, arrogant, ungratefull brats is the reason why season 7 is the worst for me. They are all extremely unlikable. And not just because of this episode. From the 1st second they showed up they had nothing to offer other then complaining. And worst of all, THAT BRAT is the one Willow chooses after Tara? Damnit, decades later and this entire group of wannabes makes me angry all over again!

[@derekkannemeyer2375]

Dakara, I've always been on the reactors' side on this one-everyone I've watched, as far as I can recall, has seen this episode the way you do. You're very much NOT in the minority. But today, this time, for some reason, I'm finally not so sure. It's true that the Scoobies, at least, should know better, and trust her more. She's proved them wrong every time they've doubted her. Anya's "you didn't earn it" in particular has enraged me. Of course Buffy has "earned" it. But what if two people you'd been living with had just horrifically died, and the leader who sent them in to die seemed to be over it already (she really does!) and is ordering you all back in to the same battlefield? What if Xander meant as much to you as he does to Willow, and Dawn, and Anya? Anya's anger here is not about past history, it's about the right now. Giles and Robin Wood have been shot down and shut out. The potentials are no-names to her. Sure, Buffy IS seeing the mission clearly still. She can be as right as you like, that doesn't make it easy for normal non-Slayer people to just get over the kind of trauma they've all just undergone, and to be, next day, all about the mission again. B/c she's not letting her near-brokenness actually show! (As she usually doesn't.) They're not thinking "We only have three more episodes after this, we have to get it done." They're thinking, Have you no feelings? You just got some of us killed doing the exact thing you want us to do again, and I don't think you care if you get more of us killed." Only Spike shares that same kind of ruthlessness. (Well, Willow did, once! Didn't work out great for her, did it?) Kicking her out of the house is extreme. But in balking about the rest, are they really being that unreasonable?

[@jensen893]

Sorry i can't stand willow she was meant to be her best friend. I get why xander was like that. But i agree with most u said

[@LissaBroyles]

S7 is near the bottom of most people's rankings. & this 1 terrible episode is the reason... honestly, before & after this episode the season is pretty solid, right fandom? Not like S3 or S5 Good, but definitely not terrible... But then THIS POS just torpedoes the whole season, if not the whole show! After 6 years of Buffy building unbreakable bonds with the Scoobies & always coming through, they all abandon & betray her when the chips are down, & put Faith in charge??? Didn't make sense then, doesn't now, never will. Terrible writing decision.

[@alooncnej4696]

Always hating this ending and how they write sometimes the characters. They are alk together so we lost individual personnalities

[@pjcornelius]

I disagree. Buffy was right and the rest of them were flat-out wrong and disgusting. She was trying to explain why they needed to go now but they cut her off and just attacked her and kicked her out of her own house. I hate them all in this episode. They were ungrateful and despicable. This is my least favorite episode of all.

[@izhirallen8746]

I didn't like this episode too because how sad two face ungrateful duplicitous sanctimonious backstabber traitorous people kick Buffy of her own house. I wish somebody else knock some senses to them about how lucky to have Buffy in their lives and did everything she do for them.