END OF AN ERA | MOZA AB9 FFB Base preview | True TRIM & Forces | DCS Profiles | Force Feedback

[@MattWagner]

Thanks, Andrei. We'd love to better support them with plug-and-play control assignments, but we've never heard from them.

[@robertzurawiecki7837]

Sounds like Andrei should poke his contact to drop you a line... I had no idea about there being a patent involved but that explains why we've had an FFB wasteland for over a decade.

[@hipgames]

I am 🙏

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Would totally love to see some cooperation here! Especially regarding the Telemetry FFB thing. This needs to be much more diverse, on a per-module base and not just prop, jet an copter. VPForce has it on a per-module/aircraft basis and this is what MOZA also needs to do, ideally together with ED and their 3rd parties that have aircraft modules out there. And I would also apprciate to get a release date. Ordered a few days after FS Expo and the shop said "ships in 4 to 6 weeks". Those are clearly more than over at this point, but apparently the thing (well, the software) needed or needs some more time in the oven. Can't wait for the thing and I somehow don't want to start getting into new modules like the Phantom and the Hook (heck, even the F-15E, bascially) with my current setup, even if it always has had FFB.

[@tver]

@@CakePrincessCelestia If you check the video you see there are profiles per module/aircraft under the DCS dropdown selection. This wasn’t visible in an earlier iteration of the Cockpit software, as seen on Jabber’s channel, who posted a video about the AB9 a week or so ago. The jumps Moza seemingly have made in the past few weeks are looking promising so far.

[@hipgames]

I will make a specific video soon like a tutorial so everyone can see... sometimes you got to take the extra mile just to double point certain features, but I am glad to do it

[@MGRMoviesLOL]

Regarding the strength needed to fly warbirds. Having the base mounted center between your legs will give you better leverage to pull on the stick. If needed its also easier to pull two-handed. Would even go so far to say, that mounting it center is healthier as well, since you will be pulling from your elbows and not your wrists.

[@hipgames]

That si 100% correct...but I don't fly often warbirds so its all good. Hahah.

[@vimfuego8827]

Brilliant Andrei, the best DCS channel out there.

[@gerryabbott]

Thanks for the video Andrei, Just got my AB9 base set up on my chair, replacing my 10 year old warthog base, and have not set any fancy effects yet. But Just the default F18 profile is fantastic, with a heavier force to push than to pull the stick. (negative v's positive g) And the centering is amazingly accurate. Its not as heavy as it looks, and is about 110mm taller than the warthog base. Super quiet, super smooth. Loving it already. Like you said, begining of the end of passive cam based flight sim sticks.

[@hipgames]

Gerry I am happy to read your first impressions with the Base. I love it too and there is no going back for me to a non ffb base. I thank you for sharing your experience with us and soon we will annouce our custom profiles for other modules with the AB9 base. This will help fans of the show and not only, get up to speed with all modules in DCS World. Cheers!

[@goutchgoutch]

Once more, I’m glad to say that I enjoy every of your “shows”. After seeing one, I wait with impatience for the next… thanks for your work

[@hipgames]

Wow, thank you! I really do appreciate the gesture and the kind words! We will do our best to maintain the recipe!

[@APlayerinVR]

I cannot afford the force feedback joystick, so I am just here to see little Petrovic. And you finally show him. FINALLY! In fact, you took so long to show him, he is big already! Bastard :)

[@hipgames]

Hahah! Good one! Yes he grows fast but its necessary for the job he has to do

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I could never afford the VPForce Rhino. AFAIK you either give them CC infor or they'll send you a a PP invoice and you can't pay on interest rate though the latter, but when buying from a shop, I typically can select pay later options, including financing for up to 24 months, which is what I did. Yes, it costs more that way, but I suck at saving up almost a grand for anything, but can easily get away with 30 bucks less each month for a period of time... XD And I need that thing ASAP. Don't wanna wait for another two years until I possibly could have saved the cash the same way :P

[@lordicedewd4375]

Andrei ... It's finally back ... back in the day I had several force-feedback joysticks to play with. All were more basic than this of course. (talking about 20+ years ago) ... and yes this is on my 'must have list' for when I finally can make a simpit

[@lawrencepickering1564]

Andrei, I always look forward to your content and I simply love Petrovich.

[@TheFoxYTB]

Why didn't this pop up in my notifications :O... God youtube you can't just withhold me this content❤💛💙 greetings from Germany

[@hipgames]

Yeah, never doing a premiere ever again 🤣 will share tomorow again for all so our viewers get the memo

[@Hammy_on_twitch]

Beautiful video AC, love seeing the happy look like you’re a kid again. PS. I need a HIP shirt for my collection 😎🫡

[@hipgames]

Already working for it, just a bit longer and we prepate to ship for our close members and friends

[@Metz_Bomb]

MOZA is really changing the game

[@bobcoughlan929]

Petrovic appears to approve 😼

[@mjetsimace7229]

In fact force feedback for flightsims is not a new topic and had already been supported by joysticks from Microsoft and Logitech more than 25 years ago. Unfortunately this hardware had been discontinued 😢 and finally this very immersive type of game support has been forgotten...until now 😊

[@hipgames]

I know, but its the same with VR...it was tried before and never picked up. Good times...good times

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@hipgames Great that you mentioned VR there. I always wanted to have the _forte_ VFX-1 as a kid to fly Jane's ATF, DiD's Super EF2000 and other sims with that... and then flight sims were the reason to get a CV1 ind 2019 for just 250 bucks and the guy who sold it to me somehow kept it in mint condition even though he was daily driving it for three years. What a change! I immediately was able to AAR and HIGE which I had tons of trouble with before. Also, taking off the warbirds and landing them without a gajillion of bounces was so much easier all at a sudden. Took me almost a year to get Half-Life Alyx when it was released to get into roomscale games and it required me to get a Quest to be able to fully enjoy that due to space constraints, but I'll never look back. Playing VR games has been like the good old Amiga and PC-DOS age, everything was new and awesome! Only played very few really great pancake games in the last two decades and never liked the path they took with game as a service, microtransactions, subscriptions, lootboxes and whatnot. I mostly enjoyed indie games then... and VR is just like those, just better with the whole move and get immersed element. Especially Eye of the Temple was just absolutely breathtaking. I can only recommend playing that if you got a 2x2m space and ideally a Quest or any other wireless headset if you even just remotely like Indiana Jones stuff.

[@homersrevenge3691]

Great video and I’m so glad force feedback joysticks are back it’s only been a decade or so 🙄

[@bartbroekhuizen5617]

Thank you for this review. Looks promising, curious if they are going to demonstrate it at the next Flight Sim Weekend in the Netherlands in 2025. The feel could seal the deal and justify the price.

[@pikas6223]

Thank you. A really informativ and entertaining review. I have the VPforce Rhino a few months now and I can say that I never will go back to springs&cams bases. It’s the same like with VR & flatscreens.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Welcome to the FFB Elite! I never could use the TMWH stick because of this, having the Sidewinder FFB2 still rocking after over two decades. Never could justify getting a CAM base either... waiting for my MOZA base now (will pay within the next two years, which probably would not have been an option with the Rhino) and then I will be peeking at FFB pedals already (heard there was an FFB mod for the Crosswinds in the comments on the last video IIRC, or it might have been on Jabbers' vid) and I want to see FFB throttles as well in the future with dynamic detents, axis bands and friction levels... ^^

[@rscuatc1]

Great pitch Andrei, well done sir :-) I have a great place to mount one...

[@JohnVanderbeck]

Sold as soon as you said it works with my existing TM Warthog grip. Question is how smooth is it? Does it ratchet? Can you make very FINE movements or does it cog between two spots? Did you try any refueling?

[@hipgames]

It's very smooth , you can tweak it the way you want. Tried AA refuelling in the Viper and for the first time I did it like a pro....right before the tanker started turning and I started to wobble...but that's on me, I need to practice. Its a game changer in all aspects

[@NickF08]

Preordered this day 1. I really cant wait for it to ship!

[@thraxas79]

For immersion at choppers I would like to know how it will perform with extensions of 20 to 30 cm

[@hipgames]

It has no reason to perform bad, the engines are very strong 💪

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I want a 40cm extension for it, ideally a goose neck...

[@Tome4kkkk]

Do what gives you the 30 Nm now?

[@Tome4kkkk]

@@Rotor-Sims Is the total cost still around 1000 Euro? I mean fully functional bazę.

[@Tome4kkkk]

@@Rotor-Sims shiiiiiiiit :D

[@tondara0]

Hi Petrovich.. I hope you and Natasha have an easy time helping Andre with his FF-dependency issues. Please let him know we all love him and understand his situation completely. Take care of him please And by the way, if you manage to take the joystick back from him, don't forget to put it online as a giveaway. We are all waiting...

[@DinoPimp]

It always bugged me that FFB sticks disappeared from the market some 14 years ago.

[@rapidrapid01]

Thanks Andrei, Mine has been on order since 28 June so not long now....end of the month is the dispatch date.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Where did you get the dispatch date from? They have turned completely silent for me, only dropping regular newsletters since I ordered at around the same time. I don't follow (a)social media stuff, though, except for here if you'd call YT that as well.

[@KhanGirey]

Did you ever look at the VPForce base again? I know you did a preview last year.

[@hipgames]

I actually didn't... I contacted them but no response

[@billpii6314]

Pulled the trigger yesterday. now all I have to do is read reviews and wait...

[@case.98]

great video as always 😀 Did Moza say anything about the use of extensions? Can the forces be adjusted with like one ,,master slider“ or would you need to tweak everything manually? Looking forward to getting my hands on this 😁

[@hipgames]

If you watch the video, there is a mid section (will add chapters soon) where I showcase the app. There is a general section that applies to all.

[@case.98]

@@hipgames yeah just watched it again, that means i can increase the forces to counter the higher lever force of a longer extension, great stuff. Its gonna be a durability test for my 20€ amazon extension currently in use with my thrustmaster warthog 😆

[@UkDave3856]

I’ll buy one when they’ve released and are thriving in the wild

[@Potatotron10000]

Really curious how this handles with extensions. Would you be able to cover that in a video or comment?

[@hipgames]

I am on my way to get that extension and prepare another video soon

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@hipgames I guess the TM compatible extensions will all work on this base as well, but I'm also interested to see the Z-Axis extension. Will probably get it later on for my space simming stuff. I somehow can't doe Elite:Dangerous with a full HOTAS, I played it with my Precision 2 stick back then instead, but some of the buttons were deteriorating, so I tried it with my flight setup of the FFB2, MFG pedals and TMWH throttle instead and basically turned from hero to zero, couldn't even dock up properly anymore XD I actually bought a T16kM only because of this... but gimme a real stick with a Z axis and I'll use that instead ^^ BTW, I've been using the Freestyle Pro gamepad with a gyro sensor for games like Freespace 2, X-Wing Alliance and alike back in the day. Felt "spacier" than having a stick sitting on the table... tried the same with the PS3 controller with E:D and it sucked, because you actually need the yaw axis there even though it's way less sensitive. X-Wing games had yaw and roll combined into the X axis and a button for roll only and Freespace also had that button and I just would use pitch and yaw. But that never worked with the ultra sluggish yaw in Elite:Dangerous... XD And then, much later, I switched to No Man's Sky in Veeeee fricken Orre. And guess what? You grab a twist stick there that has the Z axis. Works great... ^^

[@travis8534]

What are you using for your TM viper panel? I have a similar set up TM warthog throttle on a desk clamp mount. Looking for a desk mount for the viper panel as well

[@hipgames]

I am about to place a video showcasing my setup with the Warthog and the Viper panel. Its one of my best ideeas and great quality of life for most modules.

[@travis8534]

@@hipgames awesome looking forward to it! for sure I would love an F-15 throttle but the WH works so no reason for me to spend $$. Was very happy TM made the viper panel separate from the throttle just haven’t found a Viper Panel mount yet so it’s sitting on my desk.

[@fruittree1670]

random question, where did you get that vr headset stand, it looks sick

[@hipgames]

Hello! Its an Ikea product, I am getting a few more for the company as we speak 🤣

[@fruittree1670]

@@hipgames you’re a legend, i’m buying one lol

[@myyoutube_6516]

I want to pre order but I am waiting for winwings FFB stick to be revealed first. I wont wait too long though.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I guess that will be worth it, especially if you got WinWing stuff already.

[@jamieh8240]

On topic, I preordered mine this morning. Off topic, how does your Pimax handle the light from the holder you have it mounted on? I burnt the lenses from my first VR headset due to leaving it in bright sunlight,

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Leaving it in the sunlight was a bad thing... AFAIK any artificial light isn't strong enough to do the same, maybe unless it's a mega strong flashlight that you'd point straight at the lenses or some laser pointer... always make sure to turn the lenses away from the windows or over them or the whole thing up. And most importantly, tell everyone who you're living with about that also. Proceed with extra care if you got pets, especially cats as the thing might up ending differently positioned as you left it. BTW sunlight coming at the camera lenses is OK.

[@jamieh8240]

@@CakePrincessCelestia It was an old Oculus Rift S so I wasn't too devastated. It was still usable, just had a small black dot in one of the lenses.

[@hipgames]

All good, no issues here. Its a low led light and dont have it on too much...just in the videos

[@jamieh8240]

@hipgames I have my headsets sitting on heads like that as well but they aren't illuminated like yours. It looks great 👍

[@marcusviccoci]

🤔 how about the noise of those internal motors? Are they loud or it's okay for late night flying?

[@hipgames]

Perfect for late flying! Very silent, even on aggressive setting

[@Cheenael]

NATASHA! Come get him

[@damned.major.mayhem]

Most modern combat aircraft like the F16 and F18 have fly by wire and you would never feel any feedback through the stick. However, for Warbird (And Maybe Helo) pilots, this is one heck of a step up to what we currently have.

[@hipgames]

True, true 👍 but with that being said... the feel is still amazing. Rather get it and tweak it so for the Fly by wire jets you dont...and for the others... you do! But thats me

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Well, the Hornet at least would have "FFB" if it falls into "MECH mode", that is when its FBW fails. DCS isn't simulating that, though.

[@PiNKMuDSimGaming]

forget the ffb effects they are secondary at the most, the best part of ffb is the ability to customize the feel via software without needing to disassemble parts of the base & swap cams/springs etc. Dampening without sticktion, high forces on the axis, ffb is the best total game changer.

[@hipgames]

You should see what the Moza does in the Hornet.... especially when you get out of the envelope... it basically takes control of the jet!

[@hipgames]

Couldn't agree more...but you know how it goes, with all great things and changes, the naysayers will jump in to counter it. Best advice, try for yourself if you can and remember to think as rational as you can

[@ghostgaming25771]

I fly in DCS with just a controller but looking for a Winwing HOTAS or now Moza HOTAS!

[@Flob2359]

its like a million dollars

[@chaadlosan]

@@Flob2359ONE BILLION DOLLARS!

[@somting125]

Do you know if it works with the virpil f-14 grip? Only thing holding me back lol

[@hipgames]

I will check for you and lets see

[@PadinnPlays]

Did you encounter any issues with the DCS exports scripts or has that been fixed?

[@hipgames]

No issues apart from a few Cockpit app crashes.

[@PadinnPlays]

@hipgames ty for reply. I use a few different programs and heard this app was overwriting the script. Things like SRS and Tacview, as well as some win wing stuff.

[@Spelljammer1]

Thanks for this! You could at least show us what the Star Citizen presets contain since this is a surprising new territory for FFB sticks.

[@hipgames]

I will, you need to have the game installed in order to showcase the profiles...Star Citizen wasn't on my end, time is very valuable and had to bail on keeping an updated SC on my drives. Will check it out soon and come back with a special video FAQ

[@Spelljammer1]

@@hipgames nice, thanks!

[@CruelYeti]

Is there a 80/20 mount?

[@hornetj3777]

Tell MOZA to create a Captains (Left Hand Side) MA3X Side-stick.

[@jpatty5473]

So is this a software update over jabbers review? Seems like f16 is totally different to his demonstration

[@hipgames]

Take a look at the dates! We waited to see the full potential of this base.

[@flipcoin6301]

Can you assign more than one device to the game? Use them as helo cyclic and collective.

[@hipgames]

Of course! DCS supports that

[@rasse30]

I was wondering what the discount code for the Moza Flight base? I tired using the one on your site and it doesn't work.

[@hipgames]

Hello Rasse30, I checked and currently, this is the code: hipgames but its possible that at the time there is no campaign for it. Need to check with Moza on Monday. Thanks for trying to support us, I really appreciate it!

[@rasse30]

@ ok, I used that one and it said that is not a valid code. Yeah I always would try to use your codes to give you that extra support, love the channel. Thanks for replying quick and checking with them later 👍👍🫡🫡

[@hipgames]

Yeah! I will definitely check and thank you so much! Kind regards dear Rasse30 I really appreciate the support 🙏

[@EthanolEnthusiast]

Will IL-2 work?

[@johnja9017]

Is Apex Sim Racing Legit? I bought this from them.

[@pju28]

Will this work on Linux?

[@martinboom4980]

I regred ordering it in pre order becours the price has dropt from 599 to 549. with this MOZA f**** pre order buyers nice vid by the way

[@krizc.3561]

Hi everyone, I'm having trouble finding any specific information about AB9 FFB compatibile flight sticks of so called third parties. Can anyone point me to these information?

[@hipgames]

Goes like this: Thrustmaster Warthog stick, F16, F/A18C. Winwing 16EX, Vpc constellation. This is what I know for now

[@krizc.3561]

@@hipgames Thank you for the info, and it would be great (I mean normal) if these informations were presented on the Moza website in clear and precise way. How can one buy Moza FFBase where there is only vague info about compatibility with multiple third party grips through "misterious" adapters.

[@mplmpl7780]

any news if this will work in BMS?

[@hipgames]

A FAQ video is inbound very soon

[@hipgames]

I will get the info for you

[@levai0fjack]

hm, I want two for star citizens

[@NanaHoshi35]

I don't think it is bcz of the patent troll, or at least it's not the sole or even main reason. It was the dark age of flight sim since the golden age (around the late 90s and early 2000s) passed, the ordinary population just had lost interest in (serious) flight sim bcz they had more fast-food style digital toys to play with, so the market had shrunk. Various factors have played a role in the renaissance of flight sim, perhaps including MSFS and the pandemic. Then it comes the VPForce who I believe more or less has brought some breeze into this tomb of FFB full of stale air, and has led the renaissance of FFB itself. I mean, there were FFB devices from brands like Brunner all the time, who is one of the vendors making FFB devices for the commercial/flight training market all the time as well. I don't think they paid fees to that troll, and there are lots of ways to make FFB/control loading system. On the other hand, FFB devices are fundamentally more expensive than the ordinary "hardcore" spring flight sim gears which itself is already an even more niche market due to the price. Software devs wouldn't bother supporting the niche of a niche, so this makes the death spiral even more unrecoverable. Naturally no vendors were interested in stepping into it (DNM, lots of them don't or can't care about it even now), until some hero(es) shows up.

[@TonyOneBlairoby]

Is it accurate?

[@Tome4kkkk]

Let's call it a FiB-less Era ;)

[@Marc42]

Oh wow, 2nd! ✌️

[@Deamonesque]

I'd take moza over winwing.

[@hipgames]

Can't agree more, but voices may say I am invested due to my colaboration with Moza, but I will do my best to try winwing...they just don't speak to us until so far

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I immediately pulled the trigger in late June only because I only ever heard a lot of praise on their racing stuff.

[@antjones2281]

Funny how patents stifle innovation

[@cenkcdemir]

thanks for the review. FFB bases need to be get smaller. Currently WW and Moza bases look like a rock.

[@hipgames]

Its not that huge, a bit bigger indeed but you got there 2x servo engines.

[@NanaHoshi35]

Few things tho.. You cannot feel the aerodynamic force from the control surfaces of a full (hydraulic) power control aircraft, it's one way; so artificial feel systems have been made for simulating the control force on those aircraft IRL. Sure, some of them that are equipped with Q-feel, bellow system(based on changes of dynamic pressure) or bobweights(based on changes of G) etc will let you feel more than just spring & cam, but many of the current popular fighters in DCS shouldn't have much of those. And most if not every heli in DCS has force trim system that centers the stick with springs unless the force trim RELEASE switch is pressed, so a simple loose stick won't work. I've heard from other reviewers that the force trim release function is still WIP. Lastly, to fully simulate the pulling force of a highspeed diving warbird, 9Nm is not enough..even for the later warbirds/early jets that use (hydraulic) boost system. It's said that F-86A requires about 100lbf for recovering from a transonic dive. That said, a well built FFB base beats the current spring bases any day even when it was just simulating spring & damper.

[@mattiaspersson653]

I'd rather wait for Winwing's version

[@tonyzaycev77]

FFB sidestick realy ? in real heli or plain no shaking on collective and cyclic, pls stop. )))

[@bigskydude8068]

Will this support sticks with "twist" axis???? (Tried contacting Moza several times and no response to emails..😠)

[@hipgames]

I will ask for you, but their own extension is with a twist axis

[@ozanemredemir9392]

The extension they sell has twist mechanism. It also has a lock, locking twist axis if you have a rudder pedals.

[@MrLuumpy]

There will be more FFB flight gear coming soon. Form many companies. Microsoft has been milking this patent long enough.. FU MS.

[@astrogumbie2399]

Maybe they need to include a Grip with the base at $600 euro ill be passing thank you much, Also from owning every FORCE FEEDBACK Joystick every Made I can tell you right now at some point the Gears used to push Feedback will go bad at some time or the gears themself will be worn down.

[@hipgames]

Interesting aspect you describe there but then the same would apply to all FFB wheels no? I am no expert by all means, I will investigate though if that is the case with Moza's racing equipment.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I've been using the MS Sidewinder FFB2 almost daily since 2003 and the gears are still fine. But I only use 66% spring force in DCS and 20% shake force. Feels less gear-grindy that way also.

[@astrogumbie2399]

@@CakePrincessCelestia You don't use it enough to actual put strain on it someone who streams putting in 4-6 hours every day take my word you will burn them up I still have my Logitech set from back in the day that come with peddles and throttle but the gears are junk in stick so can't use it unless you want the stick sloppy lose the entire time

[@grasstreefarmer]

There is no comparison between older generation force feedback back sticks and this new gen. The AB9 and all future high end designs do not use gears to transmit forces. They use belt driven gimbals. Just as old logitech FFB driving wheels used gears and higher end FFB wheels used belt drive. Just about all FFB wheels now use direct drive motors but that isnt possible for joysticks because they move in two axis. Edit: Well, that isn't 100% true but in practice it is or the base would need to be impactically massive. Belts can wear just like anything else but in this application I would expect them to need replacing due to aging of the rubber before wear ever was an issue. That would be many many years if not decades. If they do need to be replaced its a pretty simple task. Other than that you just have bearings and the life of the motors themselves.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@grasstreefarmer Fair point, it's like switching from a G27 to a T300 RS GT. Direct Drive would only really work on yokes for the aileron axis as I would imagine. Funnily, I just bought a G923 like half a year ago as I didn't know how much I'd enjoy driving at all and didn't want to spend quite a significant amount of money more to get a decent Moza setup with 3 pedals and a shifter instead. I "just" paid around 320 for my Logitech setup. And since I'm only driving trucks and don't have that much FFB there, it's good enough. Using my FFB2 with FF Shifter to get a second stick to basically have twin stick shifting with the range and split buttons mapped to it accordingly. There's even a Spicer transmission mod out there with the glorious 6x4 one included, but I made my own custom setup before finding that. Having the possibility to use an FFB stick as a shifter is actually great and I hope Moza will see that opportunity to make decent telemetry based FFB to simulate the gears and the grinding properly and just put a good Eaton Fuller grip on it. But to be fair, the better technology does make a difference in how granular the effects can be transmitted and especially how gear-grinding it feels, but the original sticks are good enough still to have FFB at all. But to be fair, I literally have been waiting for some kind of upgrade for over two decades and all that made it to the market for a short while was the G920 garbage thing, the utterly expensive Brunner CLS-E that I heard drops out after a while due to cooling issues and the still quite expensive VPForce Rhino, with an up to 2 years waiting time... it's so great to see the major players in the segment finally come up with FFB bases at last! Because the competition will only make all of those better in the long term.