Force Feedback Joysticks | A Return to Flight Sim | Flitesim.com, WinWing & Moza

[@SimHangerFS]

See my first look with the MOZA FFB base here kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqK4pKGHitObgqMsi=6Ye3QaQp91p901xh

[@111merk]

what would u say is the best FFB Stick for the price and how good it is?

[@SimHangerFS]

@@111merk need to wait for WinWing before we can answer that question.

[@111merk]

@@SimHangerFS okay but do u think i should get looking to get a ffb this month

[@dudeinthesea]

FFB joystick was essentially the last thing that needed to happen in order to have a fully immersive flight sim experience. Its been on my wishlist for years. VR, Ai atc,[more]affordable 6axis cockpit.. what a time to be alive.

[@SimHangerFS]

Couldn't agree more😀

[@jimmy8x541]

when I got back into flight sims a few years ago I was shocked at the dearth of force feedback, since I was familiar with racing sims. it's great to see this happening

[@VR_Aviator]

I've been touting the advantages of force feedback for over 12 years. It feels good to have manufacturers recognize it as well. Can't wait for more people to experience it for themselves.

[@squiggletry9185]

This was sadly due to patent trolls. So glad the patent has finally expired, we'll be seeing so many more ffb sticks and yokes in the years to come! So excited

[@VR_Aviator]

@@squiggletry9185 I don't think it was due to patent trolls. I think it had more to do with market conditions and customer base. Since 2020 the market has exploded and developing flight sim products is profitable again. Logitech released the G940 flight system in 2009 for $300 which is not expensive at all considering it included a ffb stick, dual throttle and rudder pedals.

[@Traumglanz]

Moza went straight ahead after the expo and gave a $549 / 599€ price tag and started accepting pre-orders.

[@wittyname-sy5je]

Ordered a CLS-60 while it's on sale. I hope their FFB rudder pedals are a fair bit cheaper than the competition. The only other option we have right now as far as I'm aware are brunner pedals which cost 1800 euros (1700 for the heli version). Looking forward to the comparison videos of all the FFB sticks coming out/out now.

[@ComdrStew]

The company that made the FFB for the Microsoft Sidewinder 1 and 2 had a patient on FFB sticks for 20 years. No one could make and sell them because of it.

[@SimHangerFS]

I didn’t know that. Thanks 😀

[@VR_Aviator]

@ComdrStew Not entirely true. Logitech released the G940 hotas +rudder in 2009 for only $300. There may have been patents, but it doesn't seem like they prevented product releases at an attractive price.

[@ComdrStew]

@@VR_Aviator Yeah it was the only one made, because Immersion Corp came after them. If you notice the software support stopped in 2010. It wasn't even out a year.

[@VR_Aviator]

@ComdrStew Came after them? The G940 used I-FORCE tech licensed from Immersion Corp.

[@ComdrStew]

@@VR_Aviator Yeah that was the story back then that Immersion bullied them into the license. Something happened with them that made Logitech drop all support for the software after like 9 months. Immersion has sued Microsoft, Apple, Samsung, Sony over the DualShock 3, Google, Nintendo, and even Steam over the Steam Deck and Index for the rumble controls. They are considered a patient troll.

[@C6v1999]

Very exciting times and great video! I am in the hurry up and wait mode; I want to give all of these products a good six month wait to see what issues are resolved in software.

[@EskoLuontola]

What a time to be alive! I still have my old MSFFB2 in storage, because there has been nothing like it. Unfortunately its sensors are not very accurate, so I haven't used it for 10 years (I first replaced it with T.16000M, and later Winwing Orion 1). I'm happy to see more (reasonably priced) options coming soon. Sim support should also improve, as more players start demanding FFB support. 🤤

[@Andy.Gledhill.Models.]

I am still using a Microsoft Force Feedback 2 Joystick today. Still works after all these years lol.

[@iulian2548]

I was thinking of grabbing a used one. Is it worth it? It would be my first joystick in over 30 years.

[@harf4ng]

I have the ffb rhino base from vp force control. Great product and compatible with virpil grips.

[@get_outdoors]

Couldn’t pass up on a Sidewinder 2 force feedback for £15 about 3 months ago, only had a little dabble in DCS so far, hopefully MSFS 2024 will have some functionality baked in, as a Winwing stick owner it’ll be keeping an eye of the FFB base.

[@zaelu]

I had the Logitech G940 FFB stick and although not perfect by any stretch of imagination I still long for it after its realism today after having also Thrustmaster Warthog + F18Grip and now a Virpil stick. FFB is "how is meant to be played".

[@russellharris5072]

I'm still using the Sidewinder II and have been since FSX,I got mine on Ebay and still can find the odd one there for very reasonable prices.I still hope Microsoft will take on my suggestion and using the same case format,will make it battery powered.With modern motors that should be possible......................................

[@SewerShark]

If you review the Moza base, could you check how it works with a Virpils stick, specially non metal ones, and if there are limitations, for example, if the pinky brake lever works as an axis or just a button.

[@SimHangerFS]

Will check it out. I have the Alpha Grip

[@86abaile]

VIrpil are also hinting that they're going to announce a force feedback controller in the next few days.

[@SimHangerFS]

Now that would get me excited!

[@Warkip]

No they just said they are working on it, but will probably be a while before they have anything to announce

[@tdhitchins]

It’s the one thing that’s been missing. I’m a race simmer at heart and driving without feedback unthinkable. It’s also a massive lack of immersion, never mind performance with the lack of feedback. Just hope these become a little more affordable quick! Can’t wait. Just bought a NLR hf8 haptic seat thing. Waiting for it to arrive but it should be cool for the flying games too

[@aquamich129]

It would be very informative to make a video of why we need force feedback and the effects you can expect rather than just showing hardware and prices. Without telemetry, FFB product is kind of a gimmick; So what are the ffecets and benefit you expect of it?

[@OzzySafa]

I also heard the winwings Cyber Taurus price was lower than I expected but if it is true this is great news to consumers. Let’s hope Thrustmaster arrive to the party without their ridiculous pricing. I have hopes for the next 2 years we will have more jumping on the force feedback bandwagon.

[@DragonByte79]

The most important question is which product supports Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024. Monza had problems with MS FS 2020.

[@yokoh691]

preordered! lol sold my honeycomb yoke too lol kinda scared winwing will be cheaper than moza though lol

[@ntme9]

Soon we will have a MSFFB 3!

[@SimHangerFS]

If only…..😀

[@Batsboem1]

even the budget winwin coming this month have haptic feedback(vibrations)

[@JohnVanderbeck]

I have a CLS-120 on order and really hope they start shipping soon. I'm getting inpatient lol. Surprised to hear Winwing being competitive on pricing as I have a few of their older things and they are pretty good btu very over priced.

[@anthonypinder9384]

I’ve still got my sidewinder force feed back joystick just cannot get it working

[@jarekpiwar3688]

I have Oculus 2 and RTX 4060 ti 16 GB and I happy when I fly Comanche from A2A.

[@lomcevack280]

Fab Is necessary for feeling the plane No reason its casual for racing and not us

[@ciri151]

About damn time...

[@thatguy7085]

I still have my sidewinder

[@SimHangerFS]

Amazing, wish I had kept mine 😢

[@mikecoffee100]

just thought about it hang on Windows 10 ends October 2025 what shall we ever do , I mean a new sim and all wondefull and everything but what of windows 11 how will that effect flight sim 2024

[@spinb]

Evidently, you pay by the newton, i.e., the "force." If Winwing and Moza are selling their FFB components at much lower prices than Flitesim, it's because the motors are much weaker. Moza lists their specs, and they are, indeed, relatively low newtons compared to Brunner, Flitesim, etc. Winwing doesn't even list any specs, which is telling.

[@CAL1MBO]

Brunner will still have to drop their prices to compete. I imagine by at least €100

[@spinb]

@@CAL1MBO You're right. However, I'm not sure Brunner really cares -- they don't put much effort into marketing. Brunner's website is so plain. They do make fine looking products, though.

[@Madlou]

How strong does a flight stick ffb have to be? Ive been flying with a very old Microsoft Sidewinder 2 ffb stick for decades and its excellent. I doubt it has even one newton of force and yet its force is more than adequate. In response to some wondering about the lack of fans causing overheating issues in the Monza, the Sidewinder 2 has no fan. You can play it hard for 50 hours and it won't get the least bit warm.

[@spinb]

Well, it comes down to a question of "realism." An affordable Sidewinder gives "feedback," which is great and fun, but it's not adequate enough for someone who wants to simulate realistic flight forces.

[@prometheus4130]

I use a modded MS sidewinder 2 ffb stick which knocks out 4nm…ish with the resistor mod. 9nm, which the Moza and I believe the winwing too spec should be a nice enhancement. The VP force rhino is also spec’d at 9nm but costs 900+ Euros plus taxes……looking forward to the ‘in hand’ reviews!

[@tedwaetford]

The amount of nm isn't everything with ffb gear. I own a Brunner NG yoke which fits nicely on my motion platform. The CLS60 is so huge and heavy it would give a motion rig a hernia. Also the quality of the software and the smoothness of the motors has a greater impact on immersion imo.

[@cornucopiahouse4204]

Long due!!

[@dimitrislosmanos]

Why not at xbox x? Only for pc..

[@SimHangerFS]

@@dimitrislosmanos it has to come FFB for Xbox, it would be a massive hit, but prices need to drop first.

[@dimitrislosmanos]

@@SimHangerFS Fanatec for Sim racing is playing for both. Console and pc. Why not for the flight Sim?

[@Olivenoire801]

FFB joysticks existed, they should not have disappeared

[@SimHangerFS]

It was a patent restriction apparently.

[@config2543]

@1:00 it’s pronounced, “Customers”.

[@tb100]

Those force feedback bases are monstrous in size and price. Sadly neither of that will work for me. Why can’t companies reproduce a compact version like the old Microsoft one? Surely technology has improved to make it even smaller and cheaper. THAT is what will excite me, not this bloated, extravagant garbage