[ENG] ASL Season12 Ro.4 Match2 Rush vs herO (Tastosis)

[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S12 Ro.4 Match2 (Tastosis)
Ro.4 Match2: Rush vs herO

[@altonslayer]

that siege tank shot on his marine to kill the lurker was insane.

[@inguh7041]

Yeah that was definitely cool moment

[@Hjortur95]

timestamp for moment?

[@47ness5]

@@Hjortur95 55:12

[@Hjortur95]

54:50 xD it was obvious once i got to that part

[@theSato]

That's the kinda thing we do a lot in UMS scenarios but you never see much in pro matches. So happy the opportunity came up and Rush capitalized on it

[@cvasirocket1401]

Just the perfect content to go with a morning coffee.

[@MJ.Actual]

thats what i do

[@MJ.Actual]

and shit im a protoss

[@octaviacoquus8857]

or a degenerate wine mom drinking-at-5am-because-my-schedule-is-fucked time

[@sangvinhun]

yeah i also like to take my time and have 3 hrs morning coffee :D

[@cvasirocket1401]

It just so happened , that today was a day off work for me and I still did not finished watching it.

[@Minerva013]

Lee Hyun-kyung's counseling sessions are so wholesome awwwwwwwwww

[@KenNywithrice]

Never really cared for Stargirls and the like in the past but she's really growing on me somehow lol

[@chrisbrannigan6210]

@@KenNywithrice She's really professional and knowledgeable. I feel like she helps some of the more nervous players feel comfortable on stage. She clearly loves the game and get job. It's amazing to see

[@evilteddy11]

Damn Rush's vessels just don't die and he's got the apm to use them. The one game hero actually managed the science vessel count he managed to eke out the win.

[@richard5X5]

That's TvZ in a nutshell. Are the science vessels alive? Then T wins 9 times out of 10. Are the vessels dead? Then Z wins at the same margin. It says a lot about the state of the match. Vessel count is the most important part of the matchup once it hits mid-late game.

[@bassbeardiful]

This is awesome. I'm so excited to watch this. Thank you tastosis! Thank you Afreeca esports!

[@durag6196]

Starcast tv had this up a week in advance

[@bassbeardiful]

@@durag6196 I'm aware but hearing other casters is like feeling the touch of another woman. Temporary pleasure followed by insufferable shame. Lololol

[@MNSalty]

14:31 Tastetosis start

[@altonslayer]

the most honorable of First Comments.

[@usmh]

Tastosis*

[@marc-etiennemercier6584]

MVP is caster Park! lolol He could make an oid grandma fight a pigeon.

[@bencheevers6693]

One of my two favorite players will be champion, I'm gonna be sad for the one who doesn't win, they both are at new highs in their play they both deserve it

[@grigorsamsa6564]

"As much as the action matters, really it's all about the expanding" - Tasteless, 2021

[@buttlord2223]

"A lot of brains, no results." This is the harshest criticism I've ever heard.

[@justanotheruserxxl]

Great Series. That last game was clutch af! Wish to see more of those two in the future.

[@patrickc5448]

Really enjoying the SC1 games recently! Its making a comeback in my eyes!

[@Killercoldice22]

Ya I actually cant stand sc2 anymore. Legacy of the void changed the game to much. So many workers and cheap units that fly early. Feels like an arcade game now. Broodwar is way more tactical and punishing

[@HasekuraIsuna]

@@Killercoldice22 Every time I try to watch I just get confused by the ever changing spells on Infestor/Raven/Oracle lol

[@misterkefir]

2017-2020 . . . A LOT of games to catch up on if you just switched.. I envy you. Plus there's a very decent foreign SCene, too.

[@oscarwahlstrom5426]

I think the game is at the stage where the new generation of players has had the time it needed to grow since the introduction of the ASL. What is more exciting than anything is that two players are inventing new builds and strategies of absolute world class at the same time (Mini and Rush). It makes for a totally inspiring and all consuming watching experience and I feel like we're entering the second era of the bonjwas. Queen actually was a year early from creating a perfect synergy with three races pushing at the same time. When Flash comes back from the military, if he picks up the game again, I honestly doubt if he will be able to reach Rush's level. Mini is definitely superior to all other Protosses. The one concern I have for the future of the game is that there is not enough tournament price money compared to SC2 and other games. But it seems that for now, the players' individual streaming businesses are keeping them in action at least. If there could be another crowdfunding or something for tournament price money I think the future would be brighter.

[@buttlord2223]

Love the second match. Terran bio with science vessels is just so cool to see. I fucking love marines. Even gets a some firebats in play.

[@justanotheruserxxl]

Finally, been waiting for this so long!

[@durag6196]

Starcast tv had this up a week ago

[@justanotheruserxxl]

@@durag6196 thx brother, but half of the fun for me is also listening to those two clowns while watching the game unfold

[@tohothewriter8002]

The void of not having Flash in the ASL is filling up with amazing players like larva last season, and Rush this season going really far in the tournament! I LOVE IT!!! It's gonna be another awesmazing final for season 12! I can't wait!!!!!!

[@l4unchp4dgaming38]

You should really try to hide spoilers. Not trying to hide it is kinda a dick move.

[@Brando550]

it is nice to not know exactly who the winner is going to be every time.

[@Far2ManyDrugs]

its not stopping those players from being in the tournament... flash would just beat them if they were.. Theyre still like good like ro.8/ro.4 players.

[@bfors8498]

I’m signing up for the patreon tonight

[@fredericchopin632]

Had to watch this in korean first. but really happy to hear tastosis commentary!

[@James-sn5mg]

holy shit @1:24:10 Ultra's face is bright and shiny from being shot in the face by the marines.

[@Amathena]

WOO its finally here thanks so much you guys! VIVA BROODWAR

[@MeteCanKarahasan]

En Taro Tastosis!

[@eduardo966]

Craaaaazy Vessel control! Gratz!

[@odinian6244]

2:30:03 You can see Rush's collar and right pinky shaking! Talk about a adrenaline "rush" hehe! Fantastic performance from both players! Insane skill!

[@tedbusiek8888]

Game 1: 23:00 (plus a couple minutes of amusing Tastosis banter). Game 2: 47:48 Game 3: 1:10:45 Game 4: 1:33:54 Game 5: 1:58:46

[@GeneralPathik4201luv]

i can't wait to watch the final now :o

[@JayAshborne]

@2:20:45 ... did that defiler just eat an ultralisk?

[@user-ro2nn7lt3r]

yeah, unfortunately .... and I believe that Hero even tried to micro it away when he realized what he did, but it just doesnt work like that with consume :D

[@lancem9427]

Then it got irradiated before it could use any of the energy :(

[@kantsus]

THANK YOU!!

[@Handle35667]

Lee-Hyun Kyung counseling corner is the best.

[@Minerva013]

Also where can we find a song list that they use? =((( they are so gooooood!

[@terjethonstad9679]

that was awesome. Why doesnt Hero get defiler energy upgrade though?

[@StarFlash250]

Loved rush ever since his ASL5champ rush name

[@AAkCN1]

What is up with Caster Parks audio from 7:00 to 8:20? Tasteless swapping the players names often is confusing. Still really enjoying the cast. Thx alot

[@WaaDjooNoBoutDa]

"But that group was a little bit small and Hero said you know what, that group is a little bit small." - Artosis 2021. What a poet.

[@samuelsammington3572]

WAIT UP, who blurred out the hot6 cans and why?!?!?! the LOGO is on most of the team jackets

[@ninjanape]

omg finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@vitorodino8760]

If hero made a mutalisk in that last game, after he plagued EVERY vessel, it would've completely countered the erasers :( -- GG WP by both

[@ZillaTheTegu]

Or just a Spore Crawler... doesnt even cost gas.

[@mikes3486]

Just picked up a 6pack and a sack then this pops up. What a timing push.

[@harizotoh7]

Rush is the new dominant Terran and Light's slump for the last year.

[@Dartht33bagger]

I wasn't expecting that result.

[@KuraiChanZ]

I like these zoom ins onto their faces they added lol

[@poppy3318]

why bother bluring out the Hotfix? Everyone knows what it is. They were there for years. At least give them the goodwill of filming new promos.

[@kindlesstraitor5587]

I am glad that Flash is in the military. Now we have very high chance that ASL is won by someone other than Flash.

[@alpacaherder5680]

idk man it was pretty fun watching Flash playing random

[@RHelenius]

Can you listen to the podcast on any apps? Or can you only listen to it through web browser? (I don't know how patreon works)

[@abstractdaddy1384]

You listen directly on Patreon

[@ramiisrami000]

Why did the hot6 cans blur in front of HerO during the confession session

[@NooqGaming]

The interviewer Lee is cool i like how she makes it feel like you are in the same room as them just chilling and drinking energy drink

[@iamLI3]

at 1:55:10 what was happening to those lings? was hero spamming attack and stop commands? i've never seen lings stutter step in unison like that....

[@286432531]

rush is making terrain looks overpowered

[@MrChandoidibui]

Which day the final match ?

[@yoflo3002]

What a pimp play with hitting a marine to finish the lurker, IQ200 move.

[@HasekuraIsuna]

Fun facts, match-up and map statistics for this season below! *SPOILERS!* (Updated after today's games!) *[Fun Facts]* - Rush advances to the final with a 14-7 score (including wild card matches)! herO ends the season with a 8-9. - He will face Mini with an unbelivable 11-2 score! - herO went 12Hatch in all games tonight. - With today's games we have reached 101 games this season! - Good Night, the only map herO took today, is the only map that Zerg has a favoured score on in ZvT, but it is rather big: 4-1! Good Night being a 2-0 in favour of Zerg in ZvP as well, must be said to be the best Zerg map this season. - Polypoid being TvZ 3-2 and TvP 5-2 is the most Terran favoured map this tournament. Was it responsible for killing all the Protoss in Ro16 as it was the Game 1 map? Will it come to haunt Mini in the finals? - Ascension or Eclipse are probably Protoss players favoured map: the prior being a PvZ 2-1, PvT 4-2; and the latter PvZ 6-2, PvT 3-3. *[Match-Ups]* TvZ (32 games) 18-14 Average Time: 13:48 PvT (24 games) 13-11 Average Time: 18:09 ZvP (22 games) 11-11 Average Time: 13:50 ZvZ (11 games) Average Time: 09:40 PvP (6 games) Average Time: 13:34 TvT (4 games) Average Time: 19:38 *[Spawn Winrates]* 7/8 o'clock 37-24 60.7% 4/5 o'clock 28-19 59.6% 1 o'clock 19-34 35.8% 11/12 o'clock 15-22 40.5% Bottom 65-43 60.2% Left 52-46 53.1% Right 47-53 47.0% Top 34-56 37.8% Against Clockwise Opponent: 28-31 47.5% *[Maps]* _Eclipse_ (20 games) - TvZ 2-2, ZvP 2-6, PvT 3-3 - TvT 1, ZvZ 1 - Average Time: 17:37 _Polypoid_ (19 games) - TvZ 3-2, ZvP 3-1, PvT 2-5 - TvT 1, ZvZ 2 - Average Time: 16:33 - Against Clockwise: 6-6 _Ascension_ (18 games) - TvZ 4-2, ZvP 1-2, PvT 4-2 - TvT 1, ZvZ 2 - Average Time: 13:44 - Against Clockwise: 8-10 _Revolver_ (16 games) - TvZ 3-2, ZvP 0-1, PvT 2-1 - TvT 1, ZvZ 2, PvP 3 - Average Time: 10:18 - Against Clockwise: 5-6 _Largo_ (11 games) - TvZ 2-1, ZvP 3-0, PvT 1-0 - ZvZ 2, PvP 2 - Average Time: 15:18 - Against Clockwise: 3-4 _Good Night_ (8 games) - TvZ 1-4, ZvP 2-0 - ZvZ 1 - Average Time: 12:37 - Against Clockwise: 3-4 _Lemon_ (7 games) - TvZ 3-1, ZvP 1-0, PvT 1-0 - PvP 1 - Average Time: 13:17 - Against Clockwise: 3-1

[@jpank11]

Fantastic stats you’re the real mvp

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

Doing god's work.

[@itsokthen]

is this a reupload? i swear i already saw this. Maybe it isn't but was there a recent game with a similar defended bunker rush? I swear i saw that exact same defense in the same spot very recently.

[@7thquark309]

You're not getting crazy, I also remember seeing the exact same bunker rush! :o)

[@HasekuraIsuna]

Did you guys perhaps watch Nyoken and Scan's casting of the same game(s)?

[@deejflat]

I don’t have to wait until morning! Hurray for early matches

[@scuniverseyoutuber4404]

Can you box your cursor in a group around enemy units to figure out how many mutas there are or do you have to just guess if you're the enemy of the person using the mutas?

[@EnvoyOfFabulousness]

You cannot select more than 1 enemy unit at once

[@MrDdz]

2:20:44 he consumed a full health ultra, lmao

[@jgmweston]

And I think that defiler died to an irradiate with 200 mana too lol

[@fercornejo90]

What was that prophecy of Rush that Artosis mentioned?

[@kay486]

This still has the blurred out hot6 cans during the casual interviews!

[@disiesgroto1881]

Keep in mind the Lee Interviews where done immediately after the RO8, so it could have been Hot6 disagreed with their image being used upon review after filming but before it was shown in the RO4 game. If that’s the case, it’s probably based on the fact that the set was made to look like a cafe. I don’t read Korean, but for example, if the wall pricing said ‘Drinks 500 Won’, and there was an image of the Hot6 cans, considering they do a paid sponsorship of the segment there could have been risk of it being misconstrued as an Advertised Price, potentially causing issues for consumers/retailers. It’s my best guess, anyway.

[@AM-bf9tb]

Why was hot 6 cans blured?

[@rkobiggestfan7]

I hope someday ASLCHAMPRUSH happens. Rush is awesome.

[@jackadam9348]

As a professional cook /restaurant owner, that iron chef and butter bits are really funny.

[@myorigaccisbroken]

Another shitty day saved by AfreecaTV eSports

[@sir0herrbatka]

Remember that MGS revengance game and that "rules of nature" meme? Bust in the third game was the "rules of nature" moment.

[@silverkoffee]

Spoiler: That final plague on the vessels forced the terran to use them or lose them. He did some erasers and just won the game because hero didn't make any scourge for like 5 mins :(

[@rykeerodriguez9559]

Tastosis in the title earns a like from me

[@MattVascud]

2h 40min, now we are talking :D

[@pantanom18]

Tastosis is the best jojo reference

[@buttlord2223]

27:16 OOH!!!!

[@andrewgalea5012]

Caster Park is a legend

[@inguh7041]

Can someone tell me, how good is the (secret) Tastosis podcast?

[@Yangalama]

10-15mins of tasteless and artosis talking about random stuff. About 9 episodes so far. If you like the banter between them when they fill time during GSL and Asl previously, you will like them. I personally love them :)

[@Far2ManyDrugs]

@@Yangalama toss me a sub brah ;p

[@fumirokugen576]

will we have another king of the hill after ASL?

[@abstractdaddy1384]

Wouldn't doubt it

[@dirkauditore8413]

1:25:13 What's the name of the background music?

[@marcelopardo4791]

Why are the Hots drinks blocked in here??? Any particular reason?. Is like the company is not allowed to advertise in other countries without a permit or something like that right?.

[@Far2ManyDrugs]

hmm idk, if there was Hot s6x in my gas station i would totally buy it.

[@disiesgroto1881]

Considering this is still a ‘Korean Production’ that wouldn’t be it - at least, they would have also blurred/skipped the actual Hot6 ad as well. Keep in mind the Lee Interviews where done immediately after the RO8, so it could have been Hot6 disagreed with it upon review after filming but before it was shown in the RO4 games based on the fact that the set was made to look like a cafe with pricing on the wall. I don’t read Korean, but it could have been based on what the ‘menu’ on the back wall was - for example, if the wall pricing said ‘Drinks 500 Won’, and there was an image of the Hot6 cans in front, considering they do a paid sponsorship it could have been misconstrued as an Advertised Price, potentially causing issues across.

[@Nagassh]

Just me that thought Artosis had t-shirt on for a moment?

[@mrbearmouse9031]

I think Zergs should dump more gas into Scourges, an obscene amount, to control the Science vessel count at all cost. The amount of gas they spend on defilers and ultras only for them to be irradiated instantly is ridiculous. Putting it into Scourges would pay off in the long run, I think. Then, you'd need just a couple of defilers and zerglings to stop basically anything.

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

To be fair, this amount of Vessel retention is pretty rare, most Terrans are not able to keep that many Vessels alive. Rush controlled them pretty much perfectly. It felt on the same level of Flash's TvZ on a lot of maps.

[@mrbearmouse9031]

@@BLooDCoMPleX I agree. But maybe all the more reason to focus on them in this case. You can hear about the critical Carrier mass all the time, yet see Carriers lose relatively often. With Vessels, it's not as talked about, yet over the years I have seen Terrans win basically every single time when they have enough of them. Maybe they can even try dropping a defiler near the Vessels to plague them while they're chased by Scourge from the opposite side, ha ha.

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

@@mrbearmouse9031 You know what, I think you might be onto something. Even if Defiler drops are a bit too extreme, carrying them on Overlords might be an interesting idea to keep them safe from Irradiate. I don't know how it would look from a resource management and timing perspective, since you would need to get both OL drops and speed, but I would really like to see that idea utilized somewhere.

[@CoqPwner]

Bleh can you please not put the names of the contestants in the title? Just starting to watch this and I know how it ends because the 3rd place match is already out =/

[@imma5269]

2hr40min LETS FUCKKKINNGG GOOOOOOOOOO

[@Sapreme]

2:20:45 defiler eats an ultralisk and immediately gets irradiated right after lol

[@lucsalander]

LMAO

[@user-ro2nn7lt3r]

sadface

[@Newbport849]

Where is the podcast artosis and tasteless?! 1:11:52

[@chubby_deity3143]

I'm no expert, so can anyone explain this to me? Throughout the whole thing, I felt that herO kept making too many Ultras cuz they're just big targets for Radiate, even after seeing over and over again the massive amounts of Vessels, wouldn't have spending more on Scourges be more productive?

[@lesna_pechalba]

Ultras even with radiate on them kill infantry super fast you dont have any other answer to MnM outside of ultras and plague. But to cast plague you need map control. herO just never had the tempo in any of the games all his mechanics were tested to the limit. If he had midgame tempo with his mutas then he can field more scourge to stack them with mutas and kill the vessels but every time he had to sack his mutas to defend from some sort of push. It's easy watching the game from outside than playing the game Rush put insane amount of pressure on herO every game. Even the games that he lost Rush builds were designed to constantly put pressure from minute 1. Any other terran with weaker macro herO wouldve won imo.

[@bookwormmel0o]

@@backleft4917 ultras are infinitely better then lurkers late game with zerglings and defilers. I dont even know what you are trying to say here. The end game for zerg with dark swarm is always to get enough gases to switch to ultras with 5 armor. Nothing in the game is stronger then Ultras with 5 armor plating under darkswarm. Period.

[@user-eq3qf6ty6u]

@@bookwormmel0o I beleive they have 1 natural armor so they go up to 6 armor when they're fully upgraded. And I do agree with you ultras are very hard to deal with, marines only do 3 damage per attack/

[@chubby_deity3143]

But after seeing the absurd amount of Vessels and then still choosing to make Ultras that can’t look up just feels off to me. They were just big targets for the Vessels, they can take care of the bio but it doesn’t solve the actual problem with the Vessels

[@chubby_deity3143]

Ok, After watching a couple more games, I think I can better articulate what I'm trying to say. the "usual" strat is to make Ultras but that is against a Terran army that is like 20-30% Vessels, but with these games, Vessel count were closer to 40-50% of the army while herO didn't change his composition. The nagging feeling I had when watching was that he could have laid off one or two Ultras for more scourges to counteract that, once again, I'm no expert and it's easy to armchair this from the audience, lol

[@iloveTSA]

BW 4 EVER~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[@FedoraReshiramGaming]

i can't help but wonder why don't zerg players make just '1' spore, just 1 spore near their mineral lines during late tvz... just 1 spore colony could have saved his drones and at least made the terran think twice about trying to erase them

[@Maelthorn1337]

Had the exact same thought. Might as well have made a handful of sunkens as well with how gas starved he was.

[@abstractdaddy1384]

I've seen that in some games. The spores are especially devastating against plagued vessels. They effectively zone out the vessels from even getting close to the bases.

[@user-eq3qf6ty6u]

Pros do a lot of things that we mortals don't understand. My guees is you got to the point when vessels can fly freely over your base you're already losing. Also they usually counter it with burrow. What I don't understand is that why they never repair vessels, I mean I understand that this game is already so mechanically demanding and repairing stuff just adds to but man I feel physical pain when 1 muta kills like 8 1hp vessels.

[@allentlee1]

I ate a snickers in between breaks when I took the SAT way back in the days

[@Far2ManyDrugs]

sorry to hear about your poor SAT scores. Good luck in collaidje!

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

55:18 kamikaze

[@zurat5515]

Rush is Flash's son confirmed?

[@sethyboy0]

One spore woulda killed like all of the eraser vessels lol. Like 15 of them got plagued before.

[@tunneltu]

These are the best games of the entire ASL seaons 12 in my opinion.

[@robertovonschoettler]

Just here for my dosis of Tastetosis

[@harizotoh7]

45:55 Nick's head is a perfect sphere now. lol.

[@Mavarok284]

See Artosis? Make tank next time.

[@MrDdz]

Why are they blurring out the sponsors???

[@kurzackd]

28:21 - did he really pull an SCV from a nearly finished bunker so that it could repair a bunker that was obviously doomed? What a noob.

[@kristiani3282]

Hero lost 4 games to science vessels

[@quinton1630]

And how do you counter science vessels? Lings, defilers and lisks.

[@user-eq3qf6ty6u]

2:20:45 talking about popping baloons :D

[@furlisht]

Caster Park is the best

[@DZatheus]

Rush is looking super strong. I'm worried about Mini now.

[@cowgirlqueen2636]

Mini will OWN rush

[@DZatheus]

@@cowgirlqueen2636 I sure hope so. I want a Protoss champion.

[@IIGrudge]

I think Mini is ready to take the title. Rush is good but looks nervy here.

[@mordicuspb]

Give US match 3 please!!!

[@MrGuibig]

Wish you guys uploaded the games quicker, scan has them instantly but I prefer Tastosss commentating!

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

Yeah I got the Scan's cast for the 3rd place match appear on my recommended, spoiling the result for this one.

[@davidviloria7737]

2:20:46 Hero consuming a Ultralisk.

[@abstractdaddy1384]

I'm so glad Rush won. With mini being such a zerg killer this finals is going to be so much more interesting.

[@Matthew-uv6gl]

Yet last season Larva vs Mini was a great finals and went the distance. And Larva won. I just hope Rush doesn't choke and Mini stomps him 4-0. Rush doesn't have finals experience like Mini has and the pressure may get to him.

[@abstractdaddy1384]

@@Matthew-uv6gl I agree the larva/mini series was great and unexpected how well larva did. I just feel like we already had mini queen and I didn't want to see another pvz. Hopefully mini not being great at pvt will help it be a competitive match.

[@NoTalentGuy]

24:00 It is very common for chess players to have snacks during their games. Chess game with classical time control can even go up to 7 hours. I have seen top chess players with type of snacks like banana, nuts, chocolate, water, tea etc.. Magnus Carlsen used to drink a lot of Orange Juice during his young years, not he switched to water only xD

[@bookwormmel0o]

its common for literally every single person on the planet to eat and drink during a 7 hour activity. What do you mean lol

[@NoTalentGuy]

@@bookwormmel0o Bro, not every game goes 7 hours, it is very rare, second by what I felt, Tasteless was very surprised that they did.

[@Desoliraa]

Longest starcraft game I've ever seen was a TvP that lasted an hour and 46 minutes and ended in a draw as both players mined the map but attacking each other would be suicide. Draws are pretty rare but can happen.

[@davidgatten1033]

Beautiful play from both players. Rush def has mastery with Terran.

[@haiboshi8675]

2:20:45 consume an ultra, space steak🥩🤣

[@iwanabana]

unfortunately the Ultra is full of bad carbs and takes so much energy to eat and digest, the Defiler only got the same amount of nutrients as it would have from a zergling. ;)

[@lordjared2572]

only to be irradiated seconds later, but still what a nice final meal

[@citypopshrimp8950]

I love zerg but this series shows that Hero isn't really a finalist material. Too many units heading into a losing battle. Which I think is the distinguishing factor you usually see in good players. They know when to back out