Engine Failure On Takeoff No Runway Remaining - Day 7 of The 31 Day Safer Pilot Challenge 2024

[@jarrettleto]

The thing it seems people never realize is that its rarely that simple as a complete engine failure. I wish you would adress this and adjust your training. Its easy to say "oh i would just land on this golf course, see thats what you should do" but in reality what would you do when you get a low oil pressure warning? Or engine starts running a bit rough? Or you lose a cylinder and drop a few hundred RPM? I bet your first thought is "i better return to the airport" and it would be pretty silly to land on a golf course for low oil pressure. Off airport landings arent without risk. I think what should be taught is if engine trouble on takeoff (not failure) look for suitable landing spots and turn to them and CLIMB. If you get enough altitude to where you can return to the airport then do it but you cant count on your engine taking you back. If that makes sense

[@davidcole333]

My CFI always trained me for engine failure on takeoff by taking us to a little grass field out in the country for some pattern work. He would then fail the engine at about 200' agl on upwind and then have me practice putting it down straight ahead into a field. While we never touched down in the field, we weren't more than 10 feet or so off the ground when he applied power. He also had me practice real soft field takeoffs and landings and real short field takeoffs and landings. There's no substitute for the real thing. Great instructor and fond memories.

[@McMartinVille]

I brief new passengers that if we lose the engine, I'm still going to do the same thing I do for a normal landing: contact the ground as slowly and softly as possible. We'll just be landing somewhere we didn't originally intend.

[@333aviation]

This is actually an astoundingly simple yet awesome perspective to have. Not sure if you got it from someone else or if you're the originator, but what a brilliant way to calm your nerves as a pilot to realize that no matter where you land, the goal is always the same. It's just a matter of realizing that, if something doesn't go as planned, "THAT'S our new Runway. Here we go... pre-landing checklist. Let's do this". Awesome!

[@McMartinVille]

@@333aviationI don't remember hearing it from anyone else so I'd like to think I came up with it. It certainly sounds like something a crusty old pilot would say...maybe I'm channeling the late Bob Hoover? :)

[@333aviation]

@@McMartinVille Ha Ha! Crusty old pilots are some of the wisest pilots. You're on your way, my friend!

[@McMartinVille]

@@333aviation don't remind me! (the "old" comment...I'll be 50 this year!)

[@333aviation]

@@McMartinVille Right there with you, buddy. I'm only one year behind! Fine wine!

[@Hsv1ddr155]

7/7 “it’s called the impossible turn for a reason” ..best advice ever for this situation …

[@BlueFantasy1]

7 for 7 Jason. I completely agree with your assessment. Far too many pilots have perished attempting the impossible turn at low altitude in a vain effort to protect the plane. Everyone should internalize and then adhere to a commitment to put the wellbeing of themselves and their passengers before a material item that they will then live to replace.

[@mafp22w]

While I have heard a lot about the problems with the “impossible turn”. Not enough is said about intersecting runways. I’d like to see that discussed in another video.

[@dwighttaylor5107]

Awesome video always.

[@Jerry-nw1ds]

7 for 7 Jason, Thank you Great Videos and Great Teaching!!!

[@MarionBlair]

Agree, Our first instinct is to try turning back to save the plane. This maneuver has cost some very experienced pilots their lives, recently AOPA's Richard McSpadden in a 177. KZbin helps us see how often this doesn't work. It's on my mind every time I'm climbing out, hoping I can do it right when the time comes.

[@Steve-ov6jg]

7 for 7........ Always think about where your best option is for landing on an engine failure on takeoff. Great video

[@tommorgan5287]

My CFI told me to fly the plane, take care of the people and let the insurance worry about the plane. 7 for 7 and loving every minute.

[@ronaldvanengen1887]

In Full agreement with Jason on the Impossible turn if Under 3,000!! There is an excellent video on KZbin of a Mooney doing the Impossible turn But I'm sure he needed new shorts afterwards 😂 That Highway to the Left Jason looked good but the Golf Course would be fine as well Love the Channel

[@cabecadealho1]

As you said, I think it depends on some factors like weight, pilot experience, human factors, startle effect, wind, weather in general. There are some videos where people at 500 AGL made it back but that's on places where you have flat terrain, low buildings etc. So I think it kind of depends. And more important than this is if we're talking about a TOTAL engine failure to 0 rpm or a partial failure. That changes the scenario actually. But that's something we pilots should practice more often for sure and again also in different scenarios and aerodromes.

[@PilotProjectDylanGryder]

Best practice is to set it down right in front of you wherever you can. Let’s not gamble with our lives trying to get a partially power producing engine back to the runway. For what? Not worth it. When an engine failure happens, we don’t have time to think, “what factors do we have today?” It’s just react and fly the airplane, land it straight ahead. Not a lot of time for pondering.

[@tootallsvlog103]

I think you'd better have a plan from the get go. One of those video's was from Richard McSpadden, AOPA rep. a very experienced pilot who tragically lost his life recently with another very experienced pilot in a 177 with partial power attempting to make it back.

[@cabecadealho1]

@@PilotProjectDylanGryder Yes. Your mind need to be prepared already on the ground from briefing. You add all this factors and you already know what you gonna do. It's a very debatable question

[@cabecadealho1]

@@tootallsvlog103 great! This video here is very interesting and they actually did it at 458ft AGL with quite a good margin. Now they don't count for the startle effect that's true but we can see than even if the engine fails at 600' or 700' you still have time ( with fair weather conditions ) i would say. But nothing better than go out there and try it with a CFI. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWLYlqiBmp6Wb9kfeature=shared

[@tootallsvlog103]

@@cabecadealho1 Yea, I hope I'm never faced with the decision, and I hope I make the right one. It's a subject as you mentioned very debatable and sometimes the airport is surrounded by nothing but houses and road narrow roads with power lines.

[@jamesclark6936]

7 for 7!! Very informational!! Keep it up!

[@davismcpherson401]

7 for 7, great video, definitely a good reminder to keep in mind when flying!

[@josephsener420]

7 for 7! My Chief pilot and I worked through the actual turns, starting at 3000 feet. I fly a Piper Dakota. There is no way I would try it. There is just not enough room!

[@RobertWinchester-Mauck]

7/7. Working on my private pilot, studying for test. Flying as much as I can. Your videos are great. Thank you.

[@statecb]

7/7 I watched with my wife and related the video to my pre-flight briefing and engine out before 1000 agl going 30 degrees left or right. She always wondered about the why behind the what, this SPC video helped!

[@jeffm4046]

7 for 7! ... I agree, no turning back below 1000' - I am always looking at my surroundings while in thebairband is no different while taking off.

[@timkey2041]

Day 7 makes me 7 FOR 7! On my BFR in 2022 my "Instructor" failed my engine just as I turned from crosswind to down wind. I was already 1,000 above the field. He asked where was I going? At that altitude and wind conditions, I said back to the runway, opposite direction since I was only one in pattern. I DID IT! Good practice. This was first time I'd flown with this man. I didn't know till after the flight, several days later he was a former DPE.

[@wayneethier4472]

7 out of seven. This is a great reminder to follow the basics to ensure your chance of survival.

[@frankdaniels8077]

7 for 7! I actually did exactly this earlier today with a CFI. We also did a simulated broken throttle cable / engine stuck at full power landing. I've never actually attempted the impossible turn, and I hope I never accidentally try it when I DO lose an engine on TO. Awesome stuff Jason, keep it coming!

[@anastasiat.9275]

7 of 7!! Great lesson to remember..👍

[@derekmathews9159]

Hello Jason, There are so many different schools of thought on this topic! I have seen KZbin videos of people doing the impossible turn at 500 AGL and bragging about it. For me…..which is what I need to be concerned with is the standard: 30 degrees to the right or left of current heading and put it down. Compromising in our industry is a recipe for disaster rather I am not willing to gamble on.

[@RustyDiver]

7 of 7. Paul Bertorelli also did a good video on this, with a difference of opinion. Chers!

[@mtnairpilot]

I agree with the general rule because in order to make it work you have to use a high bank angle and aggressively unload the wing simultaneously. Without lots of practice and quick reaction times the vast majority of pilots are not capable of that.

[@daveeverhart7720]

7 for 7, thank you Jason! I've practiced these turns at altitude with a CFI. Even if one has the altitude to make the turn, a strong headwind on takeoff now becomes a tailwind with much higher groundspeed. Much more energy to dissipate. As you mentioned in the beginning, one of the many items to consider during the takeoff briefing. Thanks again for these thought-provoking scenarios.

[@5neub]

7 for 7. Need to really know your airplane and situation before attempting this turn. Thanks Jason

[@redpanda9716]

7 for 7! Roger That! Thanks Jason!

[@AnthonyW8193]

7 For 7 my instructor pulled the power at 7,000 MSL with was only about 1,500 AGL. Then told me to find a place to land we got about 20 feet AGL before I had power back. ItI was nerve racking, but a great experience.

[@lndrvrus]

7 for 7. Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing in my book. Interesting how in south FL my instructor mentioned to look for white roads near open fields instead of the fields as the canal roads are shell rock and plenty wide enough to land on and likely less traffic than a major road. fields are likely muck except for golf courses. great topic. thanks for posting this series.

[@jeffdavis4876]

7 for 7. Thank you for making these videos. It reminds us all of the basics.

[@veronicajohnsen5999]

7 is the perfect number. Great review

[@frankc.4305]

7 for 7 Thank you Jason!!!

[@gtmako]

7 for 7 you are correct, I've tried it a few times

[@JamesS-vc1hn]

7/7 Appreciate the effort that goes into these videos!

[@wshauck9527]

First thing in the morning is to watch zeroa videos. I am 7 for 7. Thanks!

[@PilotDiggerdavid]

747 I know it's February but still I'm watching and learning!

[@satellitetrackingservices5452]

7for7 staying calm & flying on best glide is most critical to avoid stalling

[@montywhitman5159]

Ok 7x7. Thanks for the education and validation to NOT attempt the impossible turn unless we’re a test pilot😊. Thanks Jason

[@sambolster7738]

7/7 here. Enjoying the series!

[@ranjrog]

7 for 7. Agree that 1000’ is generally required before turning back if the engine quits and that’s what I brief each time. Another consideration is partial power loss. Had that happen in a Musketeer with my instructor and we made the 180 back to the airport (with him flying) but the engine was still making some power. One of the four fuel injector lines failed so the engine was running rough but still running. It is good to think about both scenarios - total power loss and partial power loss!

[@michaelgerety3035]

7/7 -- This one freaks me out a bit .. but I always brief on it so I'm prepped. Great video.

[@DaShry1]

7 of 7 I have my son help with possible emergency landing locations.

[@mpodonnell3]

7 for 7! Looking forward to the rest of the series!

[@mpgeraghty]

7 4 7 and enjoying the ride. Impossible turn, while tempting in the moment, will never end well

[@c.amarisrobinson4037]

7 for 7! At our home airport, surrounded by trees, we know our options for either runway: farmer’s field to the right for 01 and highway to the left for 19. All you have left is trees, houses, and towers.

[@canoe365]

Thank you for the great video. I fly an ultralight, I started in the 80s when the common 2-stroke engines were not real reliable. I had an instructor who would often pull back power to simulate an engine out, several times per flight. He would evaluate how I reacted and coach me on improving. Now I can't shake the habit of constantly scanning for a survivable landing site within gliding distance. I will turn back and climb some more or avoid that area altogether if it's not engine-out safe. Great instructor. I believe my minimum safe altitude for attempting a turn back to the runway during an engine out on takeoff should be less than your recommendation of 1,000' AGL. My aircraft flies very mushy at about 30 MPH and can develop a high sink rate, but doesn't exactly stall. The flight manual claims 8/1 glide ratio, I think that's optimistic, probably closer to 6/1. I have a grass runway 100' x 2500' beside a 50' x 2500' paved where I can practice. Recommendations?

[@DuckLord841]

My airport (KCCO) is super limited-we have the interstate at an 80 degree angle from one runway, and lots of small fields full of high-tension power lines off the other runway. It really bothers me because I have no good option should I actually find myself in this situation. (I’ve even tried to figure it out on Microsoft flight sim, but the outcomes haven’t been great). Definitely not ideal.

[@michaelj.mcmurray540]

7 for 7: I am also not a fan of the impossible turn, especially in my Cherokee 6-260. A few years back during the 30 day SPC Jason encouraged us to"know the numbers" of our airplane. One way I did this, in context of the impossible turn, was to climb to 5,000'MSL and pull power to idle, then turn 180 degrees and see how much altitude I would lose in the process. At best glide, and after three attempts, the least amount of altitude lost was 1,220'. knowing our performance numbers helps us make wiser choices.

[@timmartin6410]

7 for 7 and another learning opportunity.

[@jonmitchell5266]

I've made it 7 for 7 thus far. Took a break from my IFR ground school to watch this video.

[@michaelchaump8203]

747! Awesome thanks Jason.

[@ellenkirby7743]

7/7 just reviewed this with my instructor on our last flight, can never go over it too much!

[@GreatDataVideos]

7/7. Had a turbocharged Saratoga II, flying out of FXE. Normally, if you lost an engine taking off on runway 9, you had no good options landing straight ahead. Filled with office buildings and crowded streets. My personal minimum was to turn back if over 700 feet. You may not make the runway, but would probably land on the grass.

[@GaryScavella]

7/7, thank you for your commitment to our GA industry. Keep the great videos coming, they are priceless 👍🏾

[@SteelTallon]

7/7 - Part of MY "standard brief" is to turn back over 1000' (RV-12 LSA) . With that said, I also consider the current conditions, density alt etc.., and will deviate if needed . Which means land out ahead most likely.

[@Airplanepilot501]

747! It's also a good idea to plan ahead of time on the areas to perform a forced landing for the runway you'll be taking off from.

[@AndrewChronisterTV]

7/7. Thanks for the series.

[@dkilpat99]

7x7 . Always anticipating the worst, but hoping for the best. Seems like a good plan for life in general.

[@RustyPilotClub]

I know there's controversy about the "Impossible Turn". I agree with you and the camp that says "it's called the Impossible Turn for a reason."

[@Braeutigamaviation]

Now 7/7! Going to catch up today...

[@kennethweaver1018]

7 for 7! Thank you!

[@johndean2925]

Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jeffm4046]

Checking in ... 7 for 7!

[@Ed.Taylor]

7 for 7! Great series!!! ET

[@ToddCrowson]

7 for 7. Enjoying the videos

[@marguerittehickman5306]

7 for 7! (caught up!) The impossible has been demonstrated unsuccessfully too often for me to think it's a good idea!

[@SuperTexasBlues]

7/7! i LOVE these vids... Jason is SO comfortable in the seat and it shows in his explanations... with some more time in the seat, and getting more comfortable with take-offs, i'll be able to look at things with a much more discerning eye thanks, Jason for the great videos!

[@patrickmaroney8262]

7….4…..7! Thanks for the insight.

[@kevintrapkinsable]

7 out of 7! Looking forward to the rest of the 31!

[@BriceBLeconte]

Appreciate you doing these videos for us! Many thanks and all the best for 2024!

[@clintgault3078]

7 for 7, thanks for this video content. Hope this never happens to me but am grateful my instructor beat this into me from the beginning. Thanks again!

[@greggmeyers6463]

7/7 I have not tried the impossible turn (yet). Briefing passenger's and myself if alone, gets the mindset for an emergency and a quicker reaction if needed.

[@rickphelan4326]

7/7. Thanks, Jason.

[@dwiedm]

7/7! I've got my landing spots already picked out if this were to happen to my home airfield.

[@AmendMD]

7/7, brief which way you are going to turn if you do attempt it. Turn into the wind always

[@brianschalme1457]

7 for 7. I have practiced the impossible turn by simulating it at altitude, in the practice area, with an instructor during my flight review. It is indeed an eye-opener.

[@KCAviatrix675]

7 for 7. I lost an engine after takeoff once when flying a 1967 Cessna 172. Thankfully I had enough runway to set her back down; I’d only just rotated when I heard the bang.

[@williamhmilleriii2225]

7 for 7, Nice explanation about the dangers of the impossible turn. Agreed!

[@bobclarie]

7 for 7. Thanks Jason !

[@jodyspann3654]

7-7 and I hope I never find out, but always briefing that every flight.

[@SVSky]

Depends. In a 7ECA 500ft turn back is no issue, -172 is pretty dicey even though in practice I've done it. My home airport(s) I have preselected landings off the departure end for every altitude. Even gotten out and walked them to see what they are like from ground level.

[@frankloy2701]

7 for 7....below 1,000 straight ahead is a very good rule.

[@jamesschwall5199]

7 of 7! I lean towards your line of thought.

[@robc6883]

7 of 7 Thanks!!

[@GVSolo]

7 of 7 done. There can be so many variables you have to work with when dealing with an engine failure and forced landing. Personally I always do a thorough pre-take-off check and as soon as possible reach that 1,000 ft AGL after takeoff.

[@OHNOKite]

I practiced impossible turns in the simulators at my university under all sorts of different conditions. Maybe 3/10 were successful under 1000 feet AGL. If everything lines up, its possible. BUT that is a big "if" to hope for when things are already going wrong. Golf course it is!

[@RCAFpolarexpress]

Day 7 full watch 7/7 Cheers 👌👌👍👍😇😇🍻🍻

[@pianocompetition4872]

Thank you.

[@jereberhard5529]

7 for 7. In an airplane, as Jason says, "straight ahead, consider 30 degrees left or right". With an instructor, go up two thousand feet AGL, cross a intersection, climb 1000' and turn back, attempting to get back to that intersection above 2000' AGL. You were likely lightly loaded. Now do it again at max gross weight... it is unlikely to work out. Go to the gliderport and try it with an instructor in a glider... an FAA Private Pilot GLIDER required maneuver is a turnback from 200' AGL and arrive back at the airport. Yes, it works in a glider because of the glide ratio, not in an airplane! ALWAYS have in mind a place to put it down if you have to. Fly safe, keep learning!

[@ikkinwithattitude]

I'd say that the advantage of the glider isn't just its glide ratio, but the difference between the amount of altitude it gains for a given distance under tow and the altitude it loses for that same distance in a glide. And what that implies is that airplanes with a low rate of climb and a low glide ratio might never be in a position to turn back to the field unless they've already turned to remain in the pattern.

[@thepilotblake]

7/7. My emergency briefing changes with each airplane that I fly and also from airport to airport. In the 172, I generally brief that if I’m below 400 feet I’m only landing straight ahead or anywhere in the windscreen as I get higher. Then from 400-800 I start to expand that out eventually to be anything in front of the wing struts or 90 degrees either side of me. But not until I’m above 800 feet or on crosswind would I consider making the “impossible turn.” And those numbers came from extensive testing where I actually found that I could comfortably make the runway at 800 feet from a straight out departure after a 3-4 second delay in standard conditions with a fairly light loading. If I was heavy and it was hot, those numbers would be increased a couple hundred feet. The most important thing in an engine failure is to get the nose down and keep it under control

[@hankwilliams4841]

7/7 If you're flying the pattern, you're probably starting crosswind turn around 700' AGl so if you lose your engine after this, getting back is much more likely than if you had to completely reverse your course. I actually had this happen to me at about 7 hours or so of my PPL training. We had just made the crosswind and were probably nearing 1000' AGl when the engine sputtered really bad. My CFI took over, kept bringing us around and we landed opposite direction on the runway.

[@jiteanomi4092]

7 for 7 awesome content

[@LRobichauxIV]

7 for 7. I’m based at KADS and there are little to no good options for this emergency for either runway, particularly RW16.

[@colinfagan8664]

7 - for - 7 Thanks!

[@pilotblue6535]

Practice for me is to know my aircraft - at different weights etc. My exercise -. Start at 4000’ in a simulated Take-off. Into the wind and in climb attitude to 5000’ at cut the power - simulated engine failure. Drop nose to best glide while doing a 180-degree turn on heading. Did I do the required Emergency Procedures recommended for my plane (airspeed, carb heat, switch tanks, mixture - restart) ? Aviate, Navigate and communicate. How much altitude did I lose? More than a 1000’?

[@capt.patrick4059]

7 for 7. Not a fan of the impossible turn for the same reasons that Jason mentioned. Great video!

[@Skyhighalaskanart]

My Squadron was preparing for a training flight at MRI when a student pilot stalled on taking off. We witnessed the impossible turn failure. Both student and CFI parished. It's a devastating sight to see.

[@nathanwildthorn6919]

Good morning, Jason! We're 7 for 7 today. The "Impossible Turn," and the perils of attempting it were explained to me by my CFI during Advanced Maneuvers training. We'd fly out to the practice area a few miles north of my home field and at 6000' simulate engine failure at climbout. Once we got to around 6500' my CFI'd cut the power and ask me, "Okay. Your engine just quit. Where are you gonna land? Can you make it back to the (simulated) field? The "field" was at 6000' and about a mile behind us. In every engine-out scenario that we practiced, I wasn't able to make it back to the field. That reality made it easier to fight my instincts and look for areas in front of us within a 60-degree cone for possible landing sites. Cuyamaca Street (just west of KSEE, my home field) was always the option I chose since the other options were either too far away or were rising terrain (Fletcher Hills). Thank you so much for these Challenge videos, Jason! 😊

[@gveduccio]

7 for 7 I have done the impossible turn as planned practice...into the 10 kt crosswind while training for CFI...but I also know it won't always be an option so the airports I fly at I have been looking for the uh oh landing spots