Why Don't Solar Powered Cars Exist?

[@Ilander86]

This is the ONLY KZbin show I watch where I get giddy on seeing a whiteboard filled with maths at the beginning.

[@metalmolisher666]

Try EEVBlog

[@johnnybow7045]

George Gammon

[@Joe3D]

But he did not took into account shadows, buildings, below bridges, parking, etc. Most cars won't get as near such sun.

[@mickjager5974]

I get queasy!

[@sammiller6631]

@@metalmolisher666 EEVBlog doesn't do whiteboard videos like they used to. Now it's more Solar Highways Busted or disassembly videos like Big Clive.

[@MichaelSmith-zi5qm]

I've been in the solar industry for 8 years, and am very familiar with watts per meter squared and the available amount of energy from the sun. This EE video is spot on, and very accurate! Thanks for doing all the math that we're too lazy to do ourselves! Keep up the good work!

[@dimitristripakis7364]

Hello, can I ask you a question about this, please. He multiplies every square meter by 63 Watts by 24 hours. This gives an output of 1512 Wh per day. That would be 1.5 kWh per day per square meter of PV panel. Isn't that too much ? Would you say that is an accurate estimation ? Thanks in advance ! PS: In Greece (where I live), we multiply the PV panel's output by 5 to get the daily output, so for example we would say: 1 square meter gives 180 Watts, times 5 = 1200 Wh per day, instead of 1512 Wh.

[@1danny2k]

@@dimitristripakis7364 yes you're right.

[@alanwilson27]

I'm not sure how much it would change the numbers and I really enjoy these great videos. The only very minor flaw to me in the calculation of sun energy striking the Earth is that the percentage of absorption by the atmosphere will increase off the perpendicular. Having lived both in South Florida and in southern Canada I am familiar with the difference of peak Sun intensity with a varying degree of atmospheric absorption. Please advise at your convenience.

[@1danny2k]

I live in North East India. In Meghalaya. Here we have highest rainfall in the world. Just few weeks ago we got some 900 odd mm in a day.. In June July solar insolation values are calculated at less than 2 hrs per day

[@peterdarr383]

Why is it so rare to see solar installations that track the Sun as it moves - keeping the panel square to the rays ?? I know it requires actuators and hinges, but I.m talking about actual gains in output of a $25,000 system. I'm in Florida and have room to put the system on the ground, not my roof. I was also wanting the system to "park" vertical to be "hail-proof" and park "flat" for the occasional hurricane. This would theoretically pay for the whole system if it wasn't destroyed.

[@aaron092991]

As my 2-year-old boy starts screaming and running around: "So, we need to understand the son. and the son has all of this energy..."

[@lordrefrigeratorintercoole288]

Now all we need is to harness the sons energy. I was thinking about some sort of hamster wheel.

[@aGGeRReS]

@@lordrefrigeratorintercoole288 Actually, in one of the scifi novel (the title of which I forgot) an inventor invented a set of puleys and levers connected to power generators spread around the house, so that children (who have excess of energy and are always up to something) will rotate and move while producing electricity.

[@Lurkindork]

@@aGGeRReS that seems like a good and a terrible idea lol and yeah pls try to find the movie

[@aGGeRReS]

@@Lurkindork not a movie, but rather a novel. Was trying to find it, but I read it long time ago and Google doesn't help.

[@lamarrharding4776]

The farmer told the solar home builder, "It won't work, I have a teenage son that lays in the sun all the time, he doesn't have any energy!"

[@Thoughtful_Balance]

Really hoping for Aptera's success. The car may not appeal to everyone and fit everyone's needs but innovation and pushing boundaries is always a good thing.

[@TravisFisher]

Same. I’m on the waiting list. Crossing my fingers that they get the funding they need!

[@Kangenpower7]

I think the Aptera would be a really fun car to drive, and actually can meet about 80% of my driving needs right now. I might use another car for a longer distance drive, or when I need to have 2 car seats and a 4th passenger. So 14,000 miles a year in the Aptera, and only about 200 miles a year in another car. And 25 miles a year that I borrow my buddy's pickup truck.

[@sprucemaroose]

It would meet the daily travel needs of most people in cities, in Europe at least. Great since it doesn't put extra strain on the grid too.

[@FoxvoxDK]

Ehh, one word: Aptera. xD Yes yes, technically it's not powered by the sun directly, but at least you're using power to some extent stored from charging in the sun. xD

[@whynotthinkwhynot-]

I’m a reservation holder. At the same time, 100 miles per kWh is an aspirational mountain to climb. I currently have my reservation for a 400 mile version with full solar. If the Beta tests show 100mi/kWh, then I might switch to a 250 mile battery version. I might anyway because I don’t think this will be my road trip vehicle but perfect for getting me to work and running around every day. Even if it doesn’t keep the battery charged- who wouldn’t want a vehicle that can keep the AC running while it sits so that when you come back after being in the store for an hour- it’s still nice and cool inside!!

[@truantray]

Ehhh...one more word, vaporware. Aptera has been making promises since 2006 and already went broke once.

[@crackedemerald4930]

@@truantray they did, but they're back.

[@anzonix]

Even if it is slow, I'd still like to have solar charging as a feature.

[@8paolo96]

yeah, if they don't cost all that much it would be a nice feature to have some free mileage just by parking the car outside!

[@ryerci9618]

they are non degrade able, basically if u crash, assume that waste just sitting there

[@explosivemallard8038]

@@ryerci9618 non-degradable is the issue? The panels don’t degrade... like the majority of everything that makes up cars?

[@longnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame]

@@ryerci9618 Wait if u crash and no one is gonna recover your vehicle, you say the car is not bio degradable? Now that’s unexpected.

[@ryerci9618]

@@explosivemallard8038 no, plastic can degrade, metals rust out and degrade. broken solar panels are not only near impossible but not reusable as in trying to restore the car or make a new car reusing those parts

[@matthewmartel9295]

You can tell Jason thinks the main demographic for this channel are Americans. He feels it necessary to convert 1.36kW to 1360W

[@kalleguld]

How much is that in Joule/s?

[@ritwikreddy5670]

@@kalleguld lol

[@magicstew45]

I wouldn't be surprised if his main demographic is Americans. I'm sure he knows (KZbin gives you that sort of data). Makes sense to convert kw to watts for U.S. The prefix kilo isn't something all Americans have been taught because well, they use imperial. Not a big deal tho lol.

[@sammiller6631]

The main demographic for this channel _is_ Americans. He's American after all, but EE still has more math than "math iz hard" mental fast food channels like Real Engineering.

[@sammiller6631]

@@magicstew45 Americans have never used Imperial. Americans used US units before Imperial units existed. The British Empire is gone. Stop calling it Imperial. Stop living in Victorian England, ol' chap.

[@Sarin-Q]

I feel like you ought to just put solar panels on your house to charge your car...

[@b0nz1official]

This! They last around 20 years and they will probably be far less obstructed on average than your car. Also you don't have to always park your car in the sun. I bet the A/C in this thing will eat half the energy anyway. People are not willing to step in boiling hot cars to gain a few miles.

[@smwsmwsmw]

@@b0nz1official 100% this. Solar panels on cars only make sense if the additional cost is negligible, and for something like the Aptera (2nd attempt, company was originally liquidated about a decade ago), I'm going to bet it's anything but negligible.

[@b0nz1official]

@@smwsmwsmw I mean the whole concept is quite radical. They are not trying to make a car that will be mass produced in the millions. More like a niche product which really pushes the boundaries . From what I've heard and how they present themselves I think they know what they are doing. The only thing I find strange was the 3.6s 0- 60 time which seems totally silly for a car like this. On second thought this thing has probably a super short gearing with a top speed below 90mph and they are gonna recuperate quite hard so they have that big motor.

[@AustinKoontz]

The point of the solar car is to be able to charge away from a charger or established source of power.

[@anydaynow01]

@@AustinKoontz Exactly, unless you're going to spring for enough batteries to charge your car once you get home from work and have enough battery power for the house at night this is a better commuter car solution. The real kicker for me is the clean bare bones design and efficiency.

[@car-man]

Your video is so cool! I am one of your fans in Korea. I always cheer for you. Stay healthy!

[@alexhiltula7716]

north or south?

[@daniell5447]

@@alexhiltula7716 does it make a difference?

[@alexhiltula7716]

@@daniell5447 yes two different countries, i am from ukraine or iceland.

[@daniell5447]

@@alexhiltula7716 Thats not what I said…. I asked if it makes a difference if they are from north or south.

[@alexhiltula7716]

@@daniell5447 do not know english? and do you not know sarcasm? i answered you literally first thing i did and then i gave you an example of it...........

[@mikejsoames1996]

Take a look at the Sono Sion. It's a car made in Germany and on average will charge its own battery by 70 miles a week and 160 miles in good weather. Also costs only 25000 euros.

[@truantray]

Lots of claims from solar electric car companies that have yet to be verified.

[@kittycrest2321]

It's coming out

[@mielbeekman]

And lightyear one from the netherlands

[@XPLAlN]

@@kittycrest2321 to say “it’s coming out” more than 2 years after the delivery date of the first orders failed and with the company now aspiring to begin delivery 4 years late is not a great recommendation.

[@kittycrest2321]

@@XPLAlN nice point

[@RDMracer]

In the Netherlands, this video feels like someone explaining why you cannot build below sea level...

[@EngineeringExplained]

Haha well we did that in the US. Is it that cloudy there!?

[@danegrun7416]

@@EngineeringExplained Most of the time

[@RandyTWester]

Except, you sort of... can. It's just not cheap to lower the sea level, over a large area. Is that what you meant?

[@MartijnvanderDrift]

@@EngineeringExplained The Dutch did it first though. Then there is the Lightyear One, Dutch as well, for your solar powered car (although not in production just yet).

[@chrispollard6568]

@@MartijnvanderDrift And the Delft cars that crossed Australia

[@stauffap]

I have to give you a like just for the math, since that's exactly what you need to do when you're talking about energy, energy storage etc. It seems like it's so neglected in the public discourse. People just claim stuff without backing it up with numbers and actual physics.

[@Enforcer_WJDE]

Sometimes just using your common sense is enough to prove something can't work, isn't technically feasible or financially "difficult".

[@SapientGalaxy]

I mean, showing all the math and going into the weeds to explain everything makes sense on a youtube channel called Engineering Explained. But if you do that in regular public discourse you're just going to confuse and lose people. If you're not all that technically minded, familiar with the topic, or even just all that invested; if you have two people talking with seemingly similar levels of expertise you're more likely to believe the person who's more charismatic and explaining it in a way you can understand rather than just throwing maths at you. And even if the public discourse was based solely around dry facts, people would still be manipulating or omitting specific facts to make their case stronger. As long as the average person isn't knowledgeable about everything or only interested in the topics they are experts at, the public discourse will never be ruled by pure maths and facts.

[@stauffap]

@@Enforcer_WJDE Often common sense is not enough, but people were ill-informed an think that it's enough. I see this all the time in discussions about global warming and CO2 neutral energy systems. People just make arguments based on what they see as "common sense" and then fail miserably or suddenly think that they've refuted over 100 years of scientific research. But of course the math and the physics is often hard and people can't do it. So instead of realising that since they aren't able to do the math they aren't experts and shouldn't take their own opinions too seriously they instead delude themselves into thinking that math isn't that important and that "common sense" is enough. Maybe that's the reason why you're objecting right now. Who knows? I teach physics (besides math and chemistry) and i always make sure to teach my students, that don't really understand something if they can't do the math. You need some intuitive understanding, some feeling for it, but you also need to understand and use the formulas. If you don't know how to use the formulas and where they are comming from then you aren't really done yet. After all you want to be able to answer question and to answer a lot of questions you need to be able to do math.

[@anydaynow01]

I wish I could give two likes for the use of SI units!

[@Cameron_Mind]

If you average the miles generated per day its 24 miles per day Produced by the car (8.3 days per full tank, 200 mile range, yada yada), this is around the average for americans to drive every day, so it actually does mantain itself basically. (Avg american drives 29 miles a day, 24 is 82% generated by the car)

[@redflash4398]

2 vids in a row with lots of whiteboard. Oh yea its all coming together.

[@billhanna2148]

Life is good ☺️

[@LanderMaybe]

@Engineering Explained Jason, I've been looking forward to you reviewing the Aptera. When they opened the queue, I paid for a place in line. I don't think "solar powered" should be their primary marketing angle, but most efficient vehicle on the road, by a long shot, is pretty awesome.

[@truantray]

Good luck, but the Aptera has been ready for imminent release since 2005.

[@1voluntaryist]

@@truantray You are leaving out a long, long back story involving corporate politics, bankruptcy, a new owner, then another owner, then acquisition by the original founders. Production follows the 4th prototype in 2022.

[@1voluntaryist]

I have been sold on this paradigm shift in private vehicles from the beginning 16 years ago. I have deposits for two.

[@sprockkets]

@@1voluntaryist Aptera never went bankrupt.

[@alanwilson27]

I agree that placing primary marketing on solar might not be the best Focus, but having watched them since 2005 when I've been looking at electric vehicles living out west, I think that the delay in reaching production is tremendously enhanced by better battery technology and we had available at the time and increasing efficiencies of charging. I will pay for a place in line for the new cars shortly.

[@CaptainRotmeat]

One thing that I think bears mentioning is that even if you can't drive 100% on solar, that passive charging can still be useful. Instead of having to go to a fast charger every week, maybe you're going once every 2 weeks, or every 2 months, etc. That's a huge help to people who can't charge at home.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

The average daily drive distance in the US is 38 miles. So in good sunny conditions this car could stay charged on solar alone for half of drivers! Although in practice not, because normal driving is likely to need more power than the optimised driving used in their figures and most places are probably not optimally sunny. But you probably could get away with charging it very rarely, as you say.

[@mgkleym]

It's a lot more functional to just have solar panels on the grid and charge from it. The productivity is much better and they aren't wasting power if your car's battery is full. The car also doesn't have to carry the extra weight of the panels.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

@@mgkleym I think it's still mostly a gimmick. The only people it would be genuinely useful for are those who can't plug in at home, eg those who have to park in the street. Public chargers are expensive.

[@RomanticPopPunk]

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 the “only people” are city folks and we have 60 millions people living in US cities

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

@@RomanticPopPunk the numbers depend on what you define as city. 80% of the population lives in urban areas but that would also include suburbs and towns. Even in big cities a lot of people have off street parking, eg a parking garage in the basement. A lot more just don't have a car at all. In high density areas there isn't much roon for very many cars parked in the street, not compared to the population living on the street. In the UK some councils are installing chargers built into existing lamp posts. They are only low speed because the cables couldn't handle more, but enough to top up over night. I think this is a good idea. I think governments should require building owners to install chargers for every parking space at apartment block car parks etc. In a high density built up area the solar panels on a car probably won't charge very well due to shadows. A solar car might work for some people but I don't think it will be worth it for very many. The amount of charge you get is small but the cost increase in the car is a lot. If you drive to work and have parking there you would probably be better off charging there if you can't at home. I think governments should require work places to provide chargers as well. In Europe, in 13 years time 100% of new cars are required to be EVs. We need to get serious about making sure everyone can charge their cars and don't get left behind.

[@joaqogc]

When will we get a car powered by anxiety and depression? Not that I could afford it but I would have infinite range.

[@BasedMan]

You ok homie?

[@thinkingimpaired5663]

LOL politicians would be the source of infinite energy.

[@connorcozart5830]

Every STEM student would be the equivalent to a thermonuclear power plant lol!

[@Iambriangregory]

@@BasedMan good answer there's something wrong with that dude

[@Iambriangregory]

You might have to go somewhere else to get help if you need it not bringing up an off subject going on electrical comment page

[@Tore_Lund]

They do exist! The point is driving a car optimised for energy efficiency, and a not extreme driving mix: My car 1800lb 20kWh EV. Small, but uses only 160Wh/mi on average. On the roof I have a measly 100W solar panel connected to a DC boost converter making 300V DC. It is always connected to the battery and charges it with 300 mA whenever the sun is up. This gives me 3-4 miles per day in range. This is not much, but it is enough for errands around town 3-4 times a week. I only drive 3000 mi yearly, so this supplies more than half my charging needs! Going to put another 100W panel on the hood some day to unplug completely. except for when visiting family.. If you need to drive 40 mi daily on the HW, this won't work!

[@TheGecko213]

So true !! Same is with alternate energy sources ! All a pipe dream . Even EV cars are only for city driving . Tesla makes long range EVs but they are nothing but a huge pile of Lithium on four wheels .

[@prerunnerwannabe]

That's really neat! Do you have any videos about it?

[@bbgun061]

I'm glad you're able to make it work. You have very well below average usage. And probably above average sun...

[@evilkillerwhale7078]

@@TheGecko213 I like that you don't have any idea of what you're talking about.

[@Infinion]

300V seems quite low of an output voltage for a standard 96S EV lithium pack, is it LIFEPO4 then? And I assume you're not charging to 100% SoC, maybe 70%?

[@fabianfeilcke7220]

Putting solar on cars does not make much sense. They rarely are in a good position to get sunlight and the panels are expensive to integrate. Its much more cost effective to put a couple of panels on top of the parking lot where the car is usually parked during the day. Keeps the car cool and charged.

[@markm0000]

Right but many people don’t want a extra solar panel on their roof or all the expense of installing that. Also they don’t like waiting around to charge a electric car. There are tons of people that don’t even have a garage of their own to park their car. This solar car would actually be decent for a lot of people.

[@L8nitedave]

If you had both and your charger was grid connected and you drive less than 40miles/day, your car becomes not only free transportation but also a supplement to what your charger makes powering the grid.

[@pauls5745]

there is a way to use solar energy for EV's, but only supplemental charging can be carried by the car. fold out panels for parked situations to increase the sqm of your roof panel, home solar storage and community solar charging (like you mention). right now, the efficiency of collecting the charge is pretty low, and expensive to boot, but i bet aftermarket solar car chargers will become a thing as the EV market continues to grow and tech finds a way to get more juice out of a panel. solar cant totally replace plugging your car in, but it does not have to; only help you out a little bit

[@fabianfeilcke7220]

@@markm0000 integrating a 1kW solar array in a car .easily cost 3000€ or more. The panels have to be flexible and withstand vibration and impacts of debris. Even if the panel is installed at least 40% of the panels will face the wrong direction in the morning and afternoon. Most cars parked in cities are in the buildings' shaddows for a large portion of the day. There actually is a company here in Munich that builds a car with solar arrays on it. In some tests in the city the car generated less than 20km or range/day in summer. You'd be better off to buy shares of a solar plant if you cannot install a solar array on your own house. That's what I did. My EV electricity bill is covered by a 10kW share of a solar plant in the neighbour village

[@L8nitedave]

@@fabianfeilcke7220 ok great, now do you want the free miles or not?

[@SirWrender]

Oh my god haha!!!! DUDE I literally have this video concept broken down into a segment in an upcoming Corridor Crew Scale video. This is a great resource to double check my math haha. Thanks Jason!! I hope you've been well!

[@irwanclark3387]

woah. its wren.

[@skar9892]

Can't wait for that video :D

[@jc-px8ox]

omg, wren !

[@fringeanomaly9284]

The video still isn't up? .. still waiting .. ❤️❤️

[@skyforce1983]

I think he got ate by a 🧟 that's why he hasn't uploaded yet

[@griffin3964]

I think it would be great to have some solar panels on any electric vehicle as a backup. If you ran out of energy and weren't too far from a charger you could conceivably crawl your way toward the next charger without needing to be towed.

[@scsi_joe]

Yeah, exactly. It doesn't have to power the entire car, but it's nice to have a trickle charge on the side.

[@keithstewart7397]

Altera offering at home charge point today.

[@birdiewolf3497]

Exactly!! There is this ridiculous idea that solar has to completely replace charging. We don't need it to. It just seems foolish that we have the sun literally spitting free energy at us and we aren't trying to harness that as much as possible. If I could get a free 30 miles a month, I'll take it.

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

Actually, solar energy would be a nice thing to power the secondary things that consume energy in our cars. I think about AC for example. In summer, using AC takes a lot of the battery.

[@artificiallyunintelligent4537]

Except you have to move more weight to have the panels so you’d be running out of battery faster so that you could charge the battery when it runs out. Kinda creating the problem you’re intending to solve for

[@TheGiohn]

I kind of hate the "heavy car safe" mentality, a heavier car will be harder to slow down, harder to maneuver and more dangerous for everyone else on the road, while being less efficient and more polluting in general. A bit selfish really...

[@robertschnobert9090]

People who spend most of the time staring at their smartphone while driving need a giant SUV tank. Rich boomers have never faced personal responsibility. 🌈

[@simonalexandercritchley439]

You have just summed up the use of trucks and SUV's,and why do we need 2 ton electric cars & trucks ? Some may need a large vehicle for business/towing or large families,but most have 1 or 2 people inside and little or no luggage.

[@b_for_brett]

100% agree. Suggesting light cars are unsafe is a huge generalisation

[@anydaynow01]

Totally agree, modern lightweight cars aren't like driving around in a 1990 CRX or Miata deathtrap, the survival cell is much safer by absorbing and distributing more energy than intuition says it should. Granted not Volvo or Subaru safe but those are the gold standard.

[@JCMik5646]

Truly. It's made road safety into an arms race where everybody's incentivized to get the largest vehicle they can afford, at a time when we really ought to be making roads safer for smaller, more efficient cars and even for walking, biking, etc.

[@d0va316]

When I was younger, everybody kept telling me AC lowers your mpg so we would just roll down the windows instead. But with the windows down, it creates drag..? So what is the best option after all? AC or the windows?

[@EngineeringExplained]

Depends on your speed! I believe myth busters ran a test. But a simple rule, at low city speeds, windows down. At highway speeds, windows up w/ A/C on.

[@robertopics]

Myth busters did this experiment and I believe that under 50mph in the car they were using diving with the windows down was more efficient.

[@DimbleWally]

Engineering explained already made a video on this subject. It's called Air Conditioning vs. Windows Down - Best Gas Mileage. To summarize, windows down is better in the city while A/C is more efficient during highway speeds.

[@d0va316]

Alright thank you for everyone's answer. I'm a new viewer so I didn't see the video "AC vs Windows"🤙

[@igeekone]

The difference is negligible. Modern vehicles are very efficient. The AC system will not make a life altering hit on fuel economy.

[@DemeterVT]

"Earth isn't flat" **ANGRY FLAT-EARTHERS NOISES IN BACKGROUND**

[@thesmallestminorityisthein4045]

*confused Flat Moon-er noise*

[@orvvro]

They're probably joking anyways

[@mojojoji5493]

Lol I love how this video was an attack against flat earthers

[@lemongavine]

@@orvvro Agreed. I would say maybe 5% of the flat-Earthers actually think it's flat. The rest are mostly trolls in my opinion.

[@beach81959]

Cue Eric Dubay bs 🤣🤣

[@LazerLord10]

Me, contemplating building a solar-powered van camper... These equations will be useful... My plan is to have a deploy-able array to use when I sit at a campsite for a few days. Should be a decent size and enough to at least maintain climate control and cooking. Looking at that 8.3 day figure to charge actually makes me think this is viable. The van with deployable array would have at least 3x the solar area, so only ~3 days to full charge? That's a normal weekend camping trip!

[@Plajerity]

Then you're double mad when you go camping and it's raining.

[@LazerLord10]

@@Plajerity At least I have an awning...

[@IFearlessINinja]

Yeah, depends a ton though. You'll wanna check the average solar energy per meter of wherever you plan to travel, or a place of similar latitude. Also the quality of your panels. It may be cheaper to get more crappy ones for the same or better power. Also be sure that your panels are angled at the sun, so bring some blocks or something to prop em up

[@dariusjonsson2358]

campfire powered steam generator

[@gordonirving24]

Calculation is for 24 hours! Sun doesn't shine at night.

[@garethbaus5471]

Honestly the only reason why I won't be reserving an aptera is because I couldn't afford one(or any new car) the fact that their is a non zero chance that a vehicle with such amazing performance can be sold at a reasonable price is absolutely amazing.

[@robinronnblad1654]

Having a small part of your tesla roof coverd with solarpanels would be nice to save the car from the so called "vampire drain"? :)

[@MarkLLawrence]

Covering the power used by sentry mode would be great.

[@Dwhizzle]

I know a solution like that could definitely help, but I think the bigger issue is the cost of the panels versus the actual energy saved. I know some cars will offer a solar roof as an option, but it will then cost like 3K to 5K. At that point I feel like it’s not a feasible option. But maybe at some point in the future it will be.

[@danielchin8073]

Yes, and not just for Teslas or electric cars in general. Using a small solar panel to maintain the battery and overcome vampiric loads is a good strategy for ICE cars too.

[@Gentleman...Driver]

@@Dwhizzle Thats it. It adds to the cost, and I think most people have no idea how laborious it would be to integrate a solar panel on the roof. I mean it has to resist all the vibrations and shocks from the road, they need to isolate it proper, they need thick cables and extra fuses... it adds also to the weight. Tesla has had already problems with manufacturing the cars. Its not worth it considering how much you gain out of them.

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Or perhaps a better designed vehicle with no such parasitic loads... 😒

[@kengineer_au]

I was involved in my University's World Solar Challenge team. The calculations on the surface level radiation are a bit off. Even as far from the equator as Melbourne, Australia we regularly get over 1000 W/m^2 days. Places like England you'll get less but you can look up IRL solar radiation and see for yourself. Real world high performance solar cells like they use in the World solar challenge get over 300W/m^2 actual output. Edit: Also if you do the math with even just cheaper regular panels then if you leave your car out in the sun all day you can get enough energy for a reasonable daily commute (if you live somewhere sunny like Australia). Edit2: You actually ended up discussing the above :P Edit3: Worth checking out the world solar challenge "cruiser class". Basically "practical" solar cars unlike the one man cockpit race vehicles of the "main event" challenger class.

[@flemmings5534]

Which uni your at?

[@b0nz1official]

This is true. I think he should have used solar constants of real places instead of the theoretical maximum values as upper boundary and the world average as "realistic" scenario

[@trollmcclure1884]

My brain had a feeling that the math is off

[@vladudrea9747]

@@flemmings5534 He's probably at Delft

[@zacharyeichenberger4929]

it really depends, if you're looking at a multi junction gallium arsenide solar array, like was common in the World Solar Challenge for most recent years, cost for around 3m^2 was in the several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Granted they give you efficiencies upwards of 35%, but the cost is really prohibitive.

[@cjzani]

If Aptera can genuinely pull off the 100 wh/mi, that's a hell of a feat.

[@christophercolumbus7218]

Aptera be like: 100 wh/mi *** *** at 20 mph...

[@EngineeringExplained]

If you cut the Model 3's frontal area and weight in half, you get pretty close. Not sure what frontal area of the Aptera is, but it seems pretty small.

[@championxxlNL]

I know right, I'm really curious, I think for a lot of people in Europe 40miles a day or about 64km a day is enough for most of the year so alot of people could potentially drive "free" ofcourse you will still have maintenance, road taxes and everything else but fuel is free. I can't speak for the us, since everything is much further apart over there but still I'll take every penny I can save on fuel

[@imitane]

Have you seen their car though? It’s shape is sacrificing almost all practicality for efficiency’s sake (which I admire in this case).

[@anonym3017]

@@imitane how often do you have more than 2 people in your car? How often do you have more luggage than what fits in an aptera? Because both of those are gonna be single digit percentages for average joe. So the aptera gets the job done almost always. And when it doesn't there are carshares for a cargovan that fits a few cubic yards of stuff or a 3 row van that seats 10 comfortably.

[@andydelarue9344]

Yes we do, and there’s a race across Australian for the last twenty years.

[@someotherdude]

Yup, and although these cars wouldn't work in most of the world, they certainly could work in Australia, the american southwest, the entire west coast of South America, the middle east, and northern africa. So why not use them there.

[@donc-m4900]

I remember them racing in the 90's. U of Michigan had a great car then

[@jaypaans3471]

Yes. Check out Lightyear One.

[@oskarogarp]

Ye do it! We want to win 2023 :) We are JU Solar Team

[@oskarogarp]

We are gonna compete in Sasol Solar Challenge in South Africa Next year :)

[@domchubs5836]

9:30 Its not actually a bad thing. I mean if your electric car runs out of power on a barren highway or in a remote desert, it will never die. You would just have to camp out for a few days until it charges again. Plus it would be charging an eighth of your battery every day if you park outside, giving it a boost in efficiency and range meaning less operating costs by a significant margin. Imagine a toyota prius getting an extra 7.5 mpg. It's not that it should run the vehicle completely, but it would be practically beneficial.

[@owethumsomi7260]

Jason is really invested in EVs these days and he is converting me from a petrol head.

[@themeach011]

You can be both!! I am!

[@orvvro]

Like it or not, it seems like the industry is headed toward EVs... I don't mind, but I like gears and knowing when to upshift just by hearing

[@ritdhar6579]

@@WalterRitchey truly it. It is not always about best efficiencies, thermodymics, Enviromment etc etc. It is also about Charecter, Emotions, Economy and Employment. Electric Cars have less moving parts, zero noise, huge charge times and still hugely pricey. They are not parmanent but transition things

[@hench_wrench_repairs]

STAY WITH US STAY WITH US

[@ikbendusan]

EVs are lame

[@daveblock4061]

My sailboat is 100% self powered by solar and wind. I do not even have a way to plug in. Taking the fact that it takes energy to produce the panels and generator nothing is free free.

[@paulsmyers203]

On our boat we still have diesel for propulsion but we've removed our generator. We can go about 3 days with no sun before I start getting nervous :D Solar and lithium are GREAT for boats.

[@hpekristiansen]

I can install a charging port for you.

[@NikoMoraKamu]

we can make it free free if you give the boat to me ;)

[@RCdiy]

There is an interesting video that shows a wind powered land vehicle going down wind faster than the wind. As a sailor and with a physics background I was wondering how they did it. The solution is at the end and it’s real. I forget the name. If you are interested I’ll look it up.

[@daveblock4061]

@@RCdiy Bernoulli Principle.

[@dr.deepamenon5763]

There is a solar powered car. The Lightyear 1!

[@aryamanranjan223]

Aptera is also making a 1000 mile range solar chargeable car that can charge through its solar panels. Not really fully solar but has solar power integrated Edit: didn’t see he covered it before just finished the video

[@flylfb]

It’s covered by the video when you watch it

[@aryamanranjan223]

@@flylfb my bad I didn’t watch all the way to the end 😅

[@billyfyre158]

It is just a barely driveable prototype.

[@sammiller6631]

Watch the video before commenting.

[@sajeewakalamba1796]

You have to understand that most of the world population live close to equator (Asia, Middle East, Africa, Central & South America) & it is there this will work better. The capacity of 1 sqm standard solar panel is approx. 200 W per hour. For a car of 6 sqm surface (roof & bonnet), it can generate approx. 6 KW per day (200 W X 5 hours X 6 sqm). The average EV efficiency is approx. 6.75 km per kwh. That means solar power can run an EV approx. 40 km a day. 40 kms is the average daily commute for any urban dweller. I drive 14 kms to the office & my car is parked at the office from 8:30 to 17:00 hrs under direct sunlight. If I can have solar panels on my car, I would not want to charge my car ever. Countries close to equator such as Sri Lanka get 8 - 9 hours sunlight daily throughout the year. I am not an engineer & studied Bio-science. I just picked up those figures from the web & calculated. I really appreciate your insights on this.

[@samstvshow]

Nontheless,every little helps surely... if we recapture energy from the brakes etc,it must be worth having a little bit coming in from the roof.

[@Texzor]

There are two other companies that want to build solar cars, lightyear one (looks great, they are comming from the World Solar Challenge) and Sono Motors

[@8paolo96]

wow, thanks for the info! I'm really into this kind of projects and I've heard about aptera but not this two, they look very interesting, especially becouse this look like actual cars that may be more usable than the aptera's tricycle

[@billyfyre158]

And none of them have published any real world measurements of the solar efficiency. When is it no use to keep the car awake (a few hundred watts idle consumption) to try to get solar power? None of them have anything but 1-2 hand built prototypes. Sono Motors used to arrange test drives in cars that were revealed to be rebuilt BMW i3, just a new body with non-working solar.

[@JCMik5646]

I was intrigued by Aptera before, but going through all the math has got me convinced- it's a perfect fit for my needs, and I hope to see more like it soon!

[@alanwilson27]

I was watching the original Aptera design 12 years or so ago. Put on hold by the crash of 2008 it is interesting to see that battery and solar technology has improved to the point where their previous work in Optimum aerodynamics has been augmented to the point that this is a very practical approach, for a design at the edge of popular acceptance. Thanx for the excellent layout of the efficiency relationships.

[@AM-bw7hv]

I have reserved mine already. It's a 100 deposit.

[@Clash19]

This video is the perfect example of: "Perfect World" VS "Real World"

[@christianmeeks4430]

Sounds like an excellent commuter car for people that drive less than half an hour to work.

[@CaedenV]

yeah... would work for me I bet! Round trip to work and back is ~20 miles, with the occasional trip to the grocery store mixed in for an additional 5 mi. This would work great! Problem is that it is going to be expensive... and when you drive as little as I do, then you get a bit more price sensitive. I use my computer several hours a day, and it lasts me a very long time, so I will spend almost any dollar amount on a computer and it is justified. But I only drive a short distance every day, and only ~30-40 min if I time the traffic right. So paying the $8-10k for a cheap but reliable used car becomes difficult to justify... much less something with the up-front cost of this kind of solar car. The price increase would probably be more than the fuel I put in my current little car. I wonder how much cheaper it would be to have the same car, normal body, and pay to install a solar car port in my driveway. Putting the solar on top of the car just seems to over complicate things.

[@jamesaleman]

@@CaedenV Since panels last 20 years under warranty, that should cover 2-3 electric vehicles if you keep them 7-10 years. And you can still use a garage, but you would have to plug in daily For convenience, I like the panels on the car roof, then you only plug in at half a tank, like a gas car and you avoid car jackings and pan hanlding at gas stations.

[@paulmartin2348]

@@jamesaleman Totally agree. I have been driving for more than 35 years but the recent number of times I have been car jacked while buying fuel is getting scary. (I never fake sarcasm)

[@jamesaleman]

​@@paulmartin2348 In those 35 years, I suspect you, but certainly actual car jack victims, were car jacked less frequently in a driveway or garage. Also, I can't count the number of times someone walks by my driveway and tops off my fuel tank. Strangely the sun shines on my driveway for many hours a week, when it is parked outside. If only I could buy a ride that charged from that sunlight. It would be a bonus if I never had to stop at those scary stations ever again. Think of the time I would save and my quality of life if I could get back 10 minutes a week, 520 minutes a year, or 5,200 minutes a decade. I would have 20,800 more minutes to waste commenting on KZbin if this was around when I started driving. Here's to 35 more years of fewer car jackings and may you never end up on a security video circulating around the net.

[@blitzjon]

I enjoy your shows and when I saw the title, the Aptera EV-1 immediately came to mind. Have to admit, I got super excited to see it listed on the board when the video started. I'm one of the early reserves and can't wait. I'd love to see you revisit this calculation with the Cybertruck if Elon offers the solar panel bed cover.

[@criticalevent]

Technically we do have solar powered cars, it just take a long time to convert the solar energy into oil :)

[@paulsmyers203]

Technically everything on earth is solar powered.

[@buddy1155]

@@paulsmyers203 Not only earth but the sun is also solar powered.

[@buddy1155]

@UCx4NEGThk8GvC56u_Z7BGNg Petroleum is a fossil fuel, mostly algae. So it is indirect solar based. Iron is totally different that is an element and (although there is a lot) it is finite.

[@sammiller6631]

@@paulsmyers203 Volcanic geothermal power in Iceland is not solar powered.

[@peterchandler8505]

@@sammiller6631 & the Philippines use geothermal power plants... Plus don't forget that France's Rance Tidal Power Station & South Korea's Sihwa Lake Tidal Power Station, among others, draw their power because the moon orbits our planet creating ocean tides...

[@AlexEMF]

I love Jason's videos. They're pretty informative and sometimes even from a practical standpoint, so I really appreciate that Jason, and congratulations on 3 million subscribers, well deserved👏

[@0hypnotoad0]

If the entire hood and roof could be made into solar panels, you might be able to recharge about 10 km on a sunny day. There's no way you can have a 100% solar powered car unless you just barely ever drive. But, it could be a useful feature for offsetting self-discharge and/or "vampire drain." It'd be nice to be able to park your car outside for extended periods of time without having to worry about it eventually draining itself. If you're stuck in the desert at a roadside with a dead battery, having a solar roof/hood could help you run AC while you wait for a bailout.

[@olaruud9366]

@@NeoHCgbz Wind turbines is a totally unrealistic idea, but i love the creativity behind it :D

[@danbrownellfuzzy3010]

It's called a trailer. It might not be attractive or super easy to maneuver, but with existing technology, you need a trailer.Coveed with solar cells.

[@peterchandler8505]

Guess you need to watch the full video... Aptera looks as though they will be able to make a solar charged never plug in to charge car for maybe a third or half of drivers who live in sunny areas & drive less than 14 000 miles a year... AC is very power hungry, those car body solar cells will probably only run the AC gently!

[@RyanWilliams222]

Thank you for mentioning the Aptera! I was thinking about it during the first 2/3 of the video, and then I was like, “Oh, hey! There it is on the whiteboard!”

[@stewreviews9345]

The numbers are much better than I would have expected. Not sure your panel efficiency figure is quite right though - tend to see figures in the low 20s for flexible solar. However, for me the value is that in my on-street parking scenario it would significantly reduce the frequency of having to go recharge. The benefit is one of convenience more than cost.

[@ewookiis]

I want solar in electric cars as a "additional charging while driving"...

[@chris.pekarsky]

Exactly, just to be able to extend the driving range, not completely contribute to all the power..

[@GiftHamster]

yes and just loading during worktime while standing about 8 hours unused at the parking lot. if i could drive only one day per week from the sun my "fuel" cost is about 20% less.

[@jetah50]

Cybertruck may have a solar cover as an option but it's estimated you'll get about 7 miles per 8 hour charge in best solar conditions.

[@valderon3692]

I think the best way to look at it is how many miles you can charge per day. I typically drive 5-10 miles per day. It really wouldn't be hard to generate that much energy. I replicated the math in this video and applied it to my car and driving needs and even with more conservative numbers than he used I could easily do all of my driving on solar power.

[@tbreakazpex205]

Check out Lightyear, they will be bringing that to the market pretty soon!

[@Foobarski]

I think people are missing the biggest market for solar panels on EVs. Imagine a city dweller who do not own their own charger. This is very common scenario. They may very well go for a petrol powered car, because they do not want to go to a supercharger once a week. Put solar panels on the car and they may only have to go to the charging station once every two weeks, which would translate into lots of saved time. It may also convert a petrol car buyer to an EV buyer. So the most important question is not if a solar powered car can drive forever only powered by the sun, but how many trips to the charging station could be saved by putting solar panels on the car.

[@AleksandarStefanovic]

This is a great point, an advantage of vehicles with solar panels on them is that they don't require any additional infrastructure, which is great for cities without chargers, or even remote areas...

[@F0XD1E]

City dwellers also don't often park in full sun. Shade from buildings would reduce efficiency drastically, and parking in a garage building would take it to zero. Ultimately not worth the cost of adding them to the car and the increased weight and fragility.

[@Deepwing]

Most EV owners don’t visit a supercharger. They plug in at home and their car is fully charged the next day. Solar panels would mean you would need to store the car outside and it would save some money but nowhere near as much as the added cost of solar panels. Not to mention the environmental effects.

[@Foobarski]

@@Deepwing My point is that many potential EV buyers opts for a petrol car, because they do not have the option of plugging the car in at home. If you live in an apartment, it can be very difficult to install a charger close to where you park your car. Many people go to work and park in a parking lot, where it is easy to find a spot with little shade. I am not saying that solar panels on cars makes sense for everyone. I am saying that there is an unserved market for EVs with solar panels on top.

[@Foobarski]

@@F0XD1E If you live in a high density area like Manhatten, then you will have a hard time getting much juice out of solar panels on a car. However, if you live in a low density area like most of LA, then it would be pretty easy to find a parking spot with little shade. I am not arguing that solar panels makes sense for everybody, just that there is a substantial number of people for whom it do make sense.

[@marekszwej]

I admire how you can mix between imperial and metric units so quickly jumping from one subject to another...

[@sammiller6631]

They're US Customary Units, not Imperial. People who say Imperial are living in the past, acting like the British Empire still exists (even though the UK is barely hanging on to Scotland now).

[@valderon3692]

@@sammiller6631 While you are technically correct, most people still recognize the term imperial to actually mean US Customary. So it's not like anyone is mislead by his statement. Nobody is expecting him to be measuring weight in stones. :P

[@sammiller6631]

@@valderon3692 "most people still recognize the term imperial to actually mean US Customary" in the same way most people are racist or sexist. They are comfortable in their old habits and beliefs even if it can be shown that the US units are older, thus have never been anything else.

[@valderon3692]

@@sammiller6631 Oh great. You're one of those people. I'm not sure who you are interacting with but I don't know anyone who is racist or sexist. Nor is the US system older than the system used by the British empire before the US existed. Obviously. I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove here but you really need to chill. The post was about how they are impressed he can jump between two measurement systems quickly. Then for some reason you decided that means you need to complain about racism and sexism?

[@sammiller6631]

@@valderon3692 "one of _those_ people?" Are you a toff? Hooray Henry? The US units are provably older than Imperial. Your need to move to beyond those two gives off an air of superiority and need to be right, key points in typical -isms, including classism. Yes, Americans can actually do math, as many of their schools are better than the UK comprehensive school system. Switching between systems is not difficult as the metric Inquisition would have you believe.

[@martinlehmann7082]

The Lightyear One, a start-up in The Netherland, might interest you. They combine the largest possible surface of solar panels (rooftop, hood and rear window) with extremely high energy-efficiency (low weight, low drag, in-wheel motors, et cetera). Very good looking car too.

[@realityandnaturepill]

And for the price of only 250.000 euros. For that money you can cover 10 roofs with solar panels and buy a Volkswagen.

[@Sideways_Singh]

@@realityandnaturepill they just revealed the lightyear 2 30,000 euro car with 500 mile range.

[@mjerez6029]

I think they key of the Aptera is it's shape, you have to sacrifice some usability and traditional looks for aerodynamic efficiency. without that weird look you can't be as efficient!

[@realityandnaturepill]

@@mjerez6029 Absolutely! It would be even better for a city car if it's way smaller...that's not what sells, unfortunately SUV's have taken over.

[@ydihtty]

In January 2023, Lightyear announced that it was halting production of the 0 model, and that Atlas Technologies B.V., the subsidiary responsible for the manufacture of the Lightyear 0, would be allowed to go bankrupt.

[@Romiman1]

Short: There isn´t enough power. You can see it also when looking to solar-race-cars with bicycle-thin wheels and huge panels on top, extremely aerodynamics and closely interiors. But I thinks, all cars should have solar-panels on top, to feed AC-vents when parking under the sun (to avoid hot interiors) or give a little recharge to the traction-battery.

[@frenchchriss9880]

Absolutely spot on. Parking a car in sunlight, almost regardless of the season, means returning to an oven. Given that this is both uncomfortable and, potentially, dangerous for animals left in the car (sometimes unavoidable for short periods), it would make sense to have a supplementary solar system to help run the air conditioning whilst the car is stationary if it's powered by an ICE, or additional to the battery if powered by electric. I have a vague memory of this having been trialled some years ago. Why has it not made the main stream I wonder ? Admittedly a total power consumption of 5kw is a tall order, but as a supplementary source, why not?

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@frenchchriss9880 Aptera is not any normal metal car body The body is a foam filled sandwich with a much higher r value than a normal car, so it heats up at a much slower rate.

[@johnshellenberg1383]

As a retired math teacher and physics nerd, I approve of your whiteboard.

[@NudelKungen.]

Even making 10% of my power from the sun would be awesome, when your cars stays still at the Country house for the weekend is a perfect time for free energy to get back home. Also not worrying for your car to uncharge when it stands still for long periods of time is nice, I only use my car like 3 times a week, if I didn’t have my car in the Garage, I would never have to charge it.

[@anydaynow01]

Yeah hopefully they remember to include a trickle charge system for the 12V battery, it's interesting how many electric cars are left immobilized because the 12V battery is drained.

[@ChrisUAnimation]

The phantom charge issue is reason enough for solar panels.

[@babybirdhome]

There’s no reason at all for 12V battery drain for an EV that’s connected to a charger - the contactors to the HV system have to be closed so there’s energy to the inverter to charge the 12V system, unless the system is just designed stupidly.

[@Cameron_Mind]

If you average the miles generated per day its 24 miles per day Produced by the car (8.3 days per full tank, 200 mile range, yada yada), this is around the average for americans to drive every day, so it actually does mantain itself basically. (Avg american drives 29 miles a day, 24 is 82% generated by the car)

[@pdavid24]

@@babybirdhome I believe early Tesla Model 3s had this issue. The main battery could be charging but the 12V would be drained. I am unsure if they solved this issue.

[@oskarogarp]

There is also an amazing solar car company called Lightyear that makes a more conventional looking car. My bet is that we will see a huge rise in electric cars with partial solar energy production in the next 2 decades :) (Setting a reminder to look back if young me was delusional or had a clue 😅)

[@Cameron_Mind]

If you average the miles generated per day its 24 miles per day Produced by the car (8.3 days per full tank, 200 mile range, yada yada), this is around the average for americans to drive every day, so it actually does mantain itself basically. (Avg american drives 29 miles a day, 24 is 82% generated by the car)

[@legoegoman789]

I bet in 20 years there will be a solar package available for econoboxes like corolla, civics, mazda3's

[@othmanskn]

Unfortunately, its conventionality caused it to be less efficient that it could be. Despite the Lightyear One being able to move 60km with 5 hours of solar charging, you can more than double its efficiency by using Transparent body to allow more solar panel area while still aerodynamic and safe. By removing steering shafts and all gears we can increase efficiency even more. Allowing human power will increase power even more like Velomobiles. We still have not pushed efficient technologies to the maximum. If we do, 1 hour solar charging can move 60km.

[@finkelmana]

There are solar cars. They race them in Australia every year. The races are on KZbin, so look for them. Then after watching those videos, you will see why we dont have solar cars.

[@someotherdude]

There are in fact light solar powered vehicle designs for 2 people that can cover an average commute.

[@PowerShellWizard]

As an electrical engineer I always appreciate getting another engineer (Jason) to explain things as an engineer would :)

[@nathanpapp432]

Even that 80% surface area seems optimistic. With windows and the curved shape of the car I think youd be lucky to get even 50%

[@EngineeringExplained]

That's fine! Pick any percentage and apply the math as you see fit. But as an example, the Aptera puts solar panels on the dash, so even the area under the window gets solar power. Hopefully some sort of anti-reflective coating so you're not staring at the sun haha.

[@Xayuap]

no, no, please imagine a roof over the car, a second floor, like those big wings

[@ecospider5]

And the aptera has no back window. Just lots of panels.

[@nathanpapp432]

@@ecospider5 Its also much smaller than the tesla.

[@nathanpapp432]

@@EngineeringExplained Not a criticism, btw. Just an observation. You cant control for every variable. How flat would those solar panels would actually be? If you are driving and working in a city can you actually park a solar powered car somewhere it could charge? Etc. Great video.

[@BeefIngot]

As with every single niche wacky solar panel installation idea, be it on cars, or roadways, the obvious solution is to just put it on the building or field right next to it that isnt being used.

[@rkan2]

Yeah - it is unfortunate how underused EV batteries are for storage.

[@Axman6]

Sticking them over waterways makes a lot of sense though; saves water, cools panels. The results in India are pretty promising, particularly with the land that’s used for irrigation currently being useless for anything else at the moment. Synergistic free real estate!

[@B00h44]

@@Axman6 well, 'nature' is not that useless. Planting fields full of solar panels has proven to be detrimental for fauna. just putting them on rooftops is a good start. (like most of western europe is doing right now). yet it's still not really THAT efficient that it makes a true impact on a country's power consumption. Plus it takes a good o'l dip during winter months.

[@TheGecko213]

If all my physics teachers in school and college were like him , I would have become a rocket scientist . This guy deserves a tenured Professorship in Automobile Engineering at University of Michigan , Ann Arbor 👍

[@Jinsun202]

Blaming other people for not achieving your dreams? Believe it or not, many high academic achievers have done so DESPITE their circumstances, not BECAUSE OF their circumstances. It's your attitude that holds you back, not your teachers. If you really want it then go get it.

[@paulmartin2348]

@@Jinsun202 (I think this guy might be a cop) Just a warning as you should be careful who you get your advice from.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

The idea of passive charging sounds great to me and I don't know why EVs don't do it. Even if you're only getting 20 miles per day from sitting in the sun, if you run out of power before you can get to a charging station, you just wait awhile and then you can drive to the charging station. That and the range extension of reducing the power used by the amount of passive recharge.

[@simiken1234]

Those solar panels are expensive and as a project its probably very expensive to develop and integrate with the car, even if you were willing to pay the unit price. You can buy a lightspeed though, once that comes out. (Check out the price - its expensive)

[@AWildBard]

There were two car companies making solar powered cars other than Aptera. Sono motors in Germany was / is taking orders for an electric hatchback that can charge about 100-200 km per week. It sells for 20-30,000 euros I think. And Lightyear in the Netherlands has much more surface area and aerodynamics, so that you could probably go with no recharge, but at this time has a price of over 100,000 euros. Perhaps if they can mass market it, the price could come down.

[@nothanksonh.w.3385]

I was 100% sure that it is impossible in the near future without groundbreaking new technology now I am just sceptical impressive

[@hammyboigaming904]

I mean, even if every car was covered in solar panels that somehow got 100% efficiency, 1.36 kW is only 2HP, approximately. So this means that you have to either charge your car outside and use it once a week or something, or you have to save energy. I'm sure it will eventually happen, but for now, all we can do is hope that someone invents this groundbreaking technology.

[@hammyboigaming904]

Edit, 8.7 m^2 would mean closer to 17 HP. An improvement, and if solar panels were 100% efficient, a solar powered car would be possible.

[@MrLundefaret]

A car is in use on average under 60 minutes pr day, so a lot of hours with the sun up to charge the car. If you combine this with a very low friction car like the Aptera, it's actually an interesting concept.

[@leftaroundabout]

The clearest way to see that it's not a _completely_ unrealistic idea is to look at the World Solar Challenge - a race with across the whole of Australia in four days without any external charging. The top cars now manage to average over 80 km/h. But still - these are very much prototypes, built ultra-light and racing under pretty ideal conditions. A car that's actually practical for everyday use can't hope to cover more than a few percent of its energy need from solar cell, so it will need to most _charge while parked_ - and that kind of defeats the point, because while parked you could as well charge externally.

[@NoOnesBCE]

It's a bit like the solar plane possible but not practical or economical beyond the experiment stage, there is hardly a reason to carry the panels with you.

[@archygrey9093]

A small panel on the roof wouldn't be a bad idea even just to keep the battery from self discharging.

[@TildaAzrisk]

And if you don't have to fast charge as often, reducing battery degradation, increasing battery lifespan.

[@hypershadow5g]

I've always wondered why we don't use solar as supplemental charging. I live in an area with lots of sunlight, and I always park my car out in the sun, and I really only drive to and from work and to and from the store. Both times my car is out in the sun, as well as when I part it at home. While solar panels may not be able to charge quickly, the fact that I and many people leave their car in the sun for many hours a day would help keep the (usable) range higher while keeping our reliance on non renewable energy low. And if you need a real charge, that's when you plug it into a charger

[@FuncleChuck]

So… like the car he spends the last few minutes debating. It’s still not reasonable for most people. It’s just not enough power, since that car claims it gets 40 miles per day of solar charge in ideal conditions.

[@hypershadow5g]

@@FuncleChuck most people that I know of don't drive more than 40 miles to and from work. And again, you're missing my point. Using solar as SUPPLEMENTAL charging. Charging that I literally gain for doing nothing but parking my car out in the sun, as I always do. Not using fossil fuels, not having to hook it up, I just sit it where I park it and I get extra charge.

[@FuncleChuck]

@@hypershadow5gthat’s not a normal car. It’s very very optimized for that purpose. And it’s price will reflect that. When the “fuel” is free, the cost is the cost - it’s still always far cheaper to put up a physical solar array that’s built for the purpose. Edit: and it’s not “doing nothing but parking” - you have to install the solar panels. They have mass and they have cost. That’s not nothing. It’s far far far more efficient and less costly to not bother.

[@anonym3017]

@@FuncleChuck you mean the 26k base price for the 250 mile version?

[@FuncleChuck]

It’s like none of you watched the video. The compromises are extreme and unnecessary when you just plug in.. Or go buy a “solar powered” bumper sticker for your Prius - just as effective as these solutions

[@snactimusmaximus]

“Earth’s Radius” whoa whoa whoa there, Globehead.

[@nielsunnerup7099]

well, even flat earthers believe that the Earth has a radius. Unless they think it's also square shaped or something.

[@chopsueykungfu]

I just ordered the Aptera a solar powered car. Yea, it only adds up to 40 miles per day, but for some people, that is all they need. It has a range of 1000 miles when its batteries are fully powered. I got the 400 range version, that’s plenty good for me.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Good for you, I have done the same.

[@dominic.m.i.]

Short Answer : Not enough to charge it up fast

[@TildaAzrisk]

But still enough to get a charge. I like the idea of solar as supplemental power, reduce how often you have to charge. Would be very convenient.

[@sato.studio]

Lucid air: 👀 👀

[@AriesT1]

As always, great video. Yet, you might check out the Sono Motors SION, the Lightyear One prototypes and the IONIQ 5 solar roof option. I agree it might not be feasible but there are attempts on the market or in the lab already.

[@MrCola122695]

I think a video on the different refrigerants and cooling systems would be great. Maybe you can explain the significant difference in cost between R134 and R1234YF!

[@n.brucenelson5920]

134a is a non starter because it has about 1300 times the GWP of CO2. It was a great gas for addressing the ozone hole problem however. Propane actually makes a good refrigerant gas. The flamability is no different than with conventional refrigerants mixed with the oil that circulates with them and can be managed to be safe through proper design.

[@Graphomaner]

What about a foldable roof accesory solar charger, like an additional roof rack with solar panels that can unfold to fit the car footprint (for parking in tight spaces) or unfold even bigger if you park elsewhere. It would drastically increase the theoretical area of the solar panels and this increase the amout of power you can generate. Poeple usually travel twice a day (to- and from work), not too far, with most of the time car being unused. Of course there are different concerns, like structural integrity and wind gusts, rain and hail etc., but you can surely account for that while manufacturing. And it could be an additional accesory for any EV, just like you can buy an accessory roof rack fiiting any car model, just hook up the wiring to additional ports of the charger (Tesla has at least one additional space for plugging in, as I recall) and voilla, you can at least extend the range, if not eliminate altogether the need for charging. I'm not talking about driving without the need of charging long-range, but it might be uselful for most common applications, like city commute. Also, when it comes to long-range transport of goods, deliveries, you have much greater area of the trailer that you can fill with solar panels and possibly extend the range. The drivers usually have daily limits of driving, they often stop during the day for breaks and drive at night, so it is also an option. I'm just a huge fan of solar, and although I'm aware of the limitations and problems with it, a slow integration of renewable technology is the way to go when it comes to minimazing the impacto of fossils. And if you could sneak in this technology and sell it as money-saving, people would probably jump right to it and adapt pretty fast.

[@Superdada]

As a mechanical engineer, first 4 minutes I was grinding my teeth with the amount of assumptions and non-realistic (theoretical math). Thank you, for quickly addressing my concerns 😅 However there were still quite a few real-world issues not addressed. The car’s profile is not flat so much of the panels at any given time would not be converting much energy. Another thing, Most urban areas are are covered in shade. Look at any dense urban center and buildings will be blocking most of the sunlight. Not to mention trees and other obstructions. Temperature: we know there “flex” panels don’t do well in high heat scenarios. So in that ideal situation where sun is perfectly blasting down, the roof temperature can easily be in the hundreds and the flex panel’s efficiency goes down.

[@pjmoran42]

Yes and forget about heating and air conditioning. Think of that little 1500W foot warmer under your desk. You need about 3000W for heat and 3000W for cooling. There goes your energy budget.

[@steveskouson9620]

Jason, I'm going to argue that ALL cars are solar powered. Indirectly. steve

[@TheHellogs4444]

Literally everything on earth is solar powered, including geothermal vent bacteria (okay that's the sun's grav potential, a little cheating but still)

[@nilsdock]

nope i would argue that nuclear energy is not what we call solar powered. it is on the other hand the the remnant of either a supernovaexplosion or collision between neutronstars. so i would say nuclear is star powered, or you could go so far as to say that it is powered by the death of stars. so i would technically be correct(best kind of correct) if i say nuclear is deathstar powered.

[@sammiller6631]

@@TheHellogs4444 Not everything. Not volcanic geothermal power or radioisotope power.

[@sammiller6631]

@@nilsdock death of stars is death powered not star powered.

[@keonix506]

Those shiny rocks we call Uranium came from supernovas/neutron stars. So not everything is solar powered

[@HubalubaluProduction]

well if you cover your house with solar panels and charge your vehicle during the day, yes, you have a solar powered car

[@STho205]

But don't you use your car MOSTLY in the daytime as that is the time for work, wandering and office/school parking.

[@F0XD1E]

@@STho205 did you even watch the video?

[@STho205]

@@F0XD1E the comment was on the logical fallacy of Rafael's thought...charging the car BY DAY at home.

[@STho205]

@@F0XD1E video doesn't matter to that. Wisdom is not repeating what someone tells you. That is merely compliance training for those that wish to seem smart. Often a trap for the very young. His video topic is good, and his presentation is fine and professional...however it bears no weight on the statement I courteously made to Raphael.

[@terryrogers8965]

Thank you for validating the Aptera Motors numbers. Makes me want one even more. Zero carbon footprint is quite appealing.

[@oggyreidmore]

Assuming the Aptera car can do what they claim, it's basically the same as travelling by horse. They travel about 40 miles a day before needing to stop and recharge too. If you're like me and live/work/grocery shop/gym/doctor's office/bar inside a 15 mile radius, this car would be perfect.

[@paial]

solar powered cars exist: just install a huge solar array at the place your car spend the day...

[@Jcewazhere]

They do: Aptera's car can be powered entirely off of the solar panels on its body... if you don't drive too much :P Edit: Yay, he mentioned it :)

[@reeldeelz2940]

So you comment before even finishing the video? lol

[@loganbeck7276]

Okay so I know a fully solar car isn't feasible, but what I would like to know is how much extra range could covering your car in solar panels give you? I'm thinking from your math if the car can generate 1.5 kW from solar and you normally drive about 250 miles on a charge, or roughly 3 hours between charges on a road trip, then the solar would be equivalent to adding 4.5 kWh to your battery pack? Enough to boost the range by about 6%?

[@gregripp]

I would like manufacturers to equip cars with a small solar powered trickle charger with a BMS to keep the 12 volt battery topped up and extend it's life. Fewer dead batteries would make vehicles more reliable for little expense. Batteries being expensive and contemporary vehicles loaded with electronics would make this a welcome addition.

[@kaiezesi6630]

And you also forgot weather conditions such as rain/snow, and temperature damaging/effecting performance

[@robertschnobert9090]

It's impossible to damage performance 🌈

[@BigMilan]

Wow. I didn’t think anything straying far from the “cars” used in the solar races could be usable on purely solar, but there you go...

[@jimprice1959]

But there aren't 24 hours of sunlight in a day--only 12 and sun rays won't always be perpendicular to the cells.

[@ps.2]

He took that into account. He noted the difference between a factor of π vs. 4π.

[@TheWSCCHEMISTRY]

My thought is a pop-up solar panel you can have in the boot. Thinking mars rover meets pop-up tent that you park under in day. Keeps car cool. And you could recover maybe 0.5 to 0.3 of a charge. Should be doable if very light very compact design to travel. This would be for at work or camping when you have time.

[@rodrigohackos9119]

I'm getting an aptera once I start making money

[@BMWHP2]

Funny that people in the USA think that the more heavy their cars are, the "safer" the are. In the Netherlands, but also in other EU countries, the average car weighs 2500lbs. So a large part weighs around 2200lbs. The deathrate for traffic in the USA is 120.4 per 1M. In the Netherlands that is 31 per 1M. For the total EU it is 42 per 1M. So all these 4 metric ton killing vehicles dont bring much safety. It is all just perception . . .

[@bobhilder1469]

While I don't disagree with your premise, there's also the likelihood that we suck at driving!

[@olasek7972]

This is wrong statistics, you have to account for distance driven, if you account for number of cars, distance, US road fatality rate is about 50% higher than in Netherlands but is almost identical to what it is in Belgium or New Zealand

[@Forrest.McDad1]

I’m hearing yacht companies claiming solar powered electric yachts with unlimited range. Doesn’t seam possible to me. I would love to see a video on the subject.

[@markparent7999]

Boats seem the perfect place for solar ...you could tow along a whole array of solar or have some sort of fold out array.

[@Kangenpower7]

I could not see a yacht that has more than about 20 square meters of solar panels. So at 200 watts per square meter, X 5 hours a day, that would be a 4 KW solar system making at the very most about 20 KW per day. Take your average 454 gas engine that can power a 30' yacht at about 15 knots and use about 10 gallons of gas each hour. That means about 350 KW of power each hour? I don't think you will travel very far using solar power. Yes there was a small canoe sized boat with a solar panel on the roof canopy. It produced 24 VDC, and run a small trolling motor to power it from one lake to another on a inland waterway. Yet they still needed to charge the boat each night at the marina, to have plenty of power for the next day. And they only went about 15 miles per day. A great way to travel and tent camp, with a boat that has a total weight less than 1,000 pounds, loaded with people.

[@julianjenkins5553]

You can recalculate this as a range extension. In the worst case for a car with a range of 400km, traveling at 100km/h, your daylight charging rate results in a range extension of ~4%. The best case is that you get infinite range if you take at least 8.3 days (from the calculation in the video) to drive the full range of the car. Typical usage is probably somewhere in between.

[@TildaAzrisk]

Not having to charge as often would mean fewer charge cycles, which would reduce battery degradation.

[@sadlogic]

There is also the Sono Motors Sion which is developed in Munich and built in Saabs old factory in Sweden. They promise 30km range charged by the sun in optimal conditions on a day in Munich.

[@ccibinel]

Interestingly solar could also make a lot of sense for an electric semi or busses. Not that it would cover the energy needs but given the massive flat area it is relatively simple to generate ~15% of the energy needs for a semi under typical driving distances per day for only a small amount of weight. 18m of solar on a flat surface is relevant. Solar panels are not that heavy and the complexities of protecting them and using the energy to charge are not as complex on the flat top of a trailer.

[@8paolo96]

I really hope that Aptera's project goes on, it would be a very good product as an innovation standpoint

[@rdson1621]

And still the "realistic math" section is quite optimistic ^^ In my location e.g. we don't see the sun for 3 to 4 months per year, maybe even more ^^ But man do I enjoy your videos about solar, electric cars/motors, batteries. Cheers from an electrical engineer

[@beemrmem3]

You are an exception. Sounds like you need to move

[@axelBr1]

Yeah, I came to the comments to see if anyone mentioned axial tilt

[@KingComputerSydney]

I helped build a car for the world solar challenge back in 1990s. Loved the idea of having solar cars. Reality bites!

[@LCCB]

A 9 day charge of a vehicle that can go 250 miles on a charge comes out to about 27 miles, which would be more than enough for my weekly driving needs.

[@flashstep7720]

Sono Sion, pretty close. You can use it to get enough charge to go short distances. Like several Kilometers, or plug it in to go a lot further.

[@alanwilson27]

One other feature of a good solar charging installation would be to run at least ventilation and if possible air conditioning vehicle that may be parked in a sunny location with no cost to your range. I purchased an early version of a width adjustable unit that you just put on top of your rear window and rolled it up to trap the fan in the slot. Living in Vegas with a dark green Subaru I was trying to keep the interior temperatures below flammable levels, LOL!

[@planetaengenharia6002]

And if we were able to use this solar energy in the car just to saving the battery, for example, to activate the ar conditioning? Or maybe to save the fuel?

[@stephencopestake2864]

I use a 20W 12V solar panel on the dash of my gas guzzling ML320 to trickle charge the battery as I don't use it often and there is a mystery electric short somewhere. All modern cars drain the battery when not in use and so a solar panel should be a basic thing on all cars. Even if they weren't enough to provide driving power, they would at least prevent battery drain and a little cooling.

[@ESHANABROOK]

Solar panels on an electric car makes sense, it would be a supplemental boost in range! Lots of people have cars sitting in the sun.

[@ChrisHolt1]

No shout out or even a nod to the Australian solar race? I understand those cars aren't practical but they do what you're doing the math for.

[@thunderbird1855]

If it gives 30km/hr then it will be very useful in situation like running out of battery.

[@virtualyme7659]

Well I guess we'll see how well the Aptera performs with its solar panels

[@someotherdude]

Why can't it have additional panels that fold out while it's parked?

[@TildaAzrisk]

​@@someotherdude It can. There is additional capacity is the Aptera's solar charge controller for hooking up external panels.