England Finally Win | Can They Play Like Scotland? | For The Love Of Rugby Podcast

[@Aliecampbellphoto]

More Anthony Watson in future episodes please! Revelation. Absolutely loved you guys bouncing off each other with balanced and insightful analysis.

[@SeanLarkan]

Thanks guys, great discussion & points made! Nothing wrong in being disappointed despite a big England win; as a Bok supporter I’ve been hugely frustrated with the Boks this year despite RC, unbeaten Autumn etc; leaking easy tries, poor line-out, avoidable handling errors & penalties, ‘going to sleep’ once ahead etc etc.

[@IncredibleMet]

Yet despite this, 52 players have been used in 12 games and were 2 kicks away from a perfect year. I think you are asking way too much.

[@yeayou1221]

@@IncredibleMetI also felt the same. It’s just knowing the potential and watching them not play at that potential. It will come though. Still a far more successful year than we are used too.

[@Farron6]

What a spoilt entitled comment. 4 points in total separate the Springboks from an unbeaten year despite using a massive number of players and you're frustrated ? Go away, grow up and learn to manage your unrealistic expectations. What a terrible fan.

[@henrymilleruk100]

Man just the opening sentence highlights why it can be a real drag being an England fan for me at the minute. Expectations killing anything - we wanted high flying entertainment unbelievably entertaining - so now even the wins aren’t good enough 😢

[@EdwardOKeefe-i4t]

Hmm, completely agree defense needs to improve A LOT, from viewing/the eye test I'd say we have gone from playing poorly and losing to playing well and losing, in the last 18 months. OZ game stats, we carried more, carried further, beat more defenders, made more meters, offloaded more and conceded less turnovers. Statistically there is no game you should lose with all those stats in your favour. It was a case of the defensive system letting us down in moments. Wouldn't say the whole attack needs rethinking.

[@TimboStash]

Very good point made about 'needs must'. England 'stick it up your jumper' to get a lead is what was needed (although this strategy won't work even against wales!), whereas Scotland have a running game plan, using their wingers out wide but also looking for work down the middle. So scotland are much better to watch right now. In fact, Anthony will know full well that the England game plan has very rarely included putting wingers in space. Well not since Woodward's days anyway..

[@rogerwalton8160]

If Finn Russell was English he'd walk into the team. An attacking genius.

[@kev63inuk]

Disagree Roger. Finn Russell is a flat track bully. Rarely delivers in a big game and cannot do what Marcus smith can do on an an individual level . Ben Spencer is the main player driving Bath on and even took over Finns penalty kicks at welford road recently. Let alone Finn not kicking restarts on Saturday. Certainly NH rates him the best 10 but like to hear more from the SH guys on him.

[@JohnRidley12]

When Ben Youngs says you are kicking too much. Oof. I don't get the idea of putting Marcus at 15. I think, without him, Steve could well be out of a job. The idea that another 10 does better there baffles me. I'm optimistic though. A few tweaks in the selection and not being batshit in defense and we've got a shot in the SN

[@shintenkai1648]

Go ahead, sack another coach, sack the next 1 too. Pissing all over your coaches is not getting you any results yet you keeping spouting it. What is the definition of stupidity? Literally go look it up for crying out loud.

[@JohnRidley12]

@shintenkai1648 I think you've got needlessly angry. I was saying that, if it weren't for Marcus Smith, Steve could be out of a job. Not that we should sack him. Imagine if we'd lost all these games without looking threatening in attack? Like late stage Eddie, Twickenham would be baying for blood.

[@beneardley8875]

@@JohnRidley12 I don't think Steve needs sacking but I am not sure he is a natural lead guy. Somebody alongside him, that took on the media stuff and setting a general direction would be positive. Someone with experience and authority.

[@jonbrook4009]

@@shintenkai1648 Well the other side of that stupidity coin is: how does a national-level coach justify his job position when he has lost more games than he has won while also making tactical/substitution errors that many would suggest lost games - not once but twice in a row. With the added worry that the defensive nature of the team has gone backwards. I just wonder how incompetent Borthwick has to be before you think he needs replacing.

[@AbeHopwood]

​@shintenkai1648 exactly. As an england fan: if Borthwick gets sacked I'm genuinely just going to support another team. Just sacking coaches over and over will achieve nothing. We'll be in a continuous loop of doing badly in the first year because the coach is unfamiliar with the team, and then in the second year where theres clear improvemnt, because we lose a few big games we just sack the coach. I want to see england progress. Sacking the coach over and over will do nothing.

[@ryanmortimer9849]

Also having Japan first would have been much better for building the crowd. Atmosphere seemed dead yesterday; odd having it in the final round (regardless of whether or not we'd won the 3 prior games), and a dark kickoff on a Sunday. Surely a 1pm Saturday kickoff as round 1 would be so much better for generating an atmosphere with excitement looking ahead to the bigger fixtures, than having it last in what was ultimately always going to be a bit of a dead rubber

[@Alex-mj5dv]

Genuinely Ant needs to get some punditry / analysis gigs - his insights are ace. And it’s always better coming from someone who’s either still playing or recently left the game.

[@wallabies1989]

What I would love to hear you guys comment on is why Englands blitz is so brittle compared to others. SA blitz as hard and they miss a lot of tackles as a result but the system seems to have a lot more layers where a missed tackle even in the 13 channel doesn’t result in a try.

[@horfieldboy9478]

I think Lennie is bang on here. Defence is far too porous and won't work against tier 1 teams. Lack of ambition and desire to kick possession away for the past 4 years has been a major issue. Worked on a horrible night in Paris in a semi final so either we only play in a storm or we need to adapt. Too many still in denial.

[@ianwardle7523]

Spot on! 4th in 6 nations.

[@jbuck147]

I think England have an issue with Marcus, yes he was England best player in which he displayed individual flashes of brilliance, but the problem is that he struggles to lead an attack at this level, which is a core job of playing at 10. He has 39 caps but there is still no sign of a cohesive back line, not all down to him as the supporting cast is not great either, and as Ben suggests he may be better suited to fullback or even as a bench option, especially if the game opens up in the latter stages.

[@shintenkai1648]

England fans must think they have some tardis of a bag of to pull coaches from considering how critical they are of coaches.

[@KernowekTim]

Well done England. A fantastic victory over Japan. Huge kudos t'yous fer that! 🏴‍☠☘

[@gerhardmeyer8891]

Scotland, having played the boks a week earlier was the perfect match to up Scotland game...

[@garyenglish1221]

You can not cherry-pick your fixtures to make your players feel better. If you want to be the best you must beat the best anytime. You can't hope to warm-up against weaker teams. Anyway, the England team not that bad.

[@nickmarr1]

Please tell me that the ‘Harry Potter’s invisibility cloak’ comment wasn’t lost on you, Ben, given his appearance on the pitch.

[@Imakeener]

Just wondering. If, as a player, you think a method of playing would work better than what's being coached, e.g. what you're saying about the England attack vs Aus or Sco, how much input/influence can you put into a conversation with a coach about changing how you play?

[@StanWilks]

Cipriani's international career, or lack thereof, is the answer to your question.

[@danhursty6684]

Finn Russell is gonna cook in the Lions 10 Jersey 🔥

[@henrymilleruk100]

Sorry highlighting we scored more than Japan with less meters really highlights meters isn’t inherently everything as a stat. Japan score 12 against France, 19 against New Zealand, and 14 against us France score 52, New Zealand score 64, we score 59.

[@jlm4455]

That Japan team had one player over 30 caps. It was pretty much a 2nd and 3rd string team. I mean their 10 struggled do basics a school boy can, like kick offs. Taking too much out of that game is bit silly.

[@porcinistan]

Love the show love the pod. Would love to hear your thoughts on the Spain v USA match in Madrid this past weekend! Physical match. Loads of Prem players you might have played with or against?

[@darthmong7196]

Is it me or is Lenny's schnozz double the size it was last week?

[@ianwardle7523]

Ben Youngs!! Absolutely spot on!!! 2 years is long enough. This coaching team is not helping the team!

[@RCB2010]

Why does the KZbin post have only 2/3rds of the audio pod? Lots of interesting and fun stuff in the missing chat about all the other matches and playing with your brother. Nevertheless great chat between two blokes who know what they’re talking about through experience.

[@LoveOfRugby]

That part is in a previous KZbin video, you can watch it here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3fQfKusbZVmqc0

[@RCB2010]

@@LoveOfRugby ah ok, you split it to double the number of posts. I admit I tend to baulk at anything over an hour so good plan. Thanks for the clarification.

[@yeayou1221]

Australia Defence has a looong way to go. Their Attack is quite good but so much work to be done on the Defence. That Tuipulotu Try is easily saved by all of the other top 6 team in the world.

[@SvenTheSveed]

I was hoping for a much stronger performance from Japan.

[@beneardley8875]

I love this podcast and think Ben and Ant are great. However, I do think it is ironic that Ben is so down on England's approach yet was more guilty than most of playing one up runners, box kicks when in prime attacking positions and slowing down tempo. Funny how things change when out of camp.

[@TheFIGHTERTC]

marcus is doing so well we lost 5 in a row...

[@garygavin857]

England won, because they were never under any pressure. Mentally they knew they could win. Japan put no real pressure on them. Japan scored tries because the defences leapt out in the wrong places at the wrong time. We learnt nothing from this other than 2 things. A winger faced with a 2 player defence , instinctively , chiped & chased with sublime intelligence & skill. That a number 10 Fin Smith glued Englands structure very well. Other than that the tactics were easy to read & the Blitz defence is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. It makes no sense with the fit off these player's. Boring Borthwick needs to be honest with himself. What has he actually changed. Certainly not beating Eddy Jones 73% win ratio. It does help if you can recruit the right staff & retain them. It does help every one if you fess up about your failures & own them. A reset is clearly needed. Okay the team has wonderfull harmony & unity in all its defeats. The magic dust off creativity needs to be rediscovered. The RFU set up is not getting sucession or retention right. Nor its continuity. We at least deserve to talk about why we do not have the best players or coaches , just because clubs will not give them up or players play in other Countries. Those are bad choicest for your chances.

[@StopTheRot]

We don’t have the talent in the backs to play like Scotland.

[@jonbrook4009]

We don't have the South Africans in the team to play like Scotland.

[@chrisfairfield1198]

@@jonbrook4009only two in the team mate. Might wanna check where the vunipolas, tuilagi ben teo, Marcus smith are all originally from and get back to me👍

[@georgekelly6675]

​@jonbrook4009 you mean Darcy Graham and Blair Kinghorn? Have a word with yourself if you think Enland are jobby because Scotland have a couple of SA born players 😂

[@chrisfairfield1198]

@@georgekelly6675 screams of jealousy doesn’t it. My phone is wet from all his tears on my screen

[@jonbrook4009]

@@georgekelly6675 Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman, Nathan Mcbeth - i won't mention your captain because he's Australian - and some of the others because they're Kiwis. There you go, I had 'word with myself' and came up with more than I first thought.

[@Hucksss_92]

Galliant isn't a word btw

[@DG-iu8ck]

If they talking about attack saying Scotland is better why did England put more points against Australia and South Africa than Scotland did against South Africa and Australia the point im making just because stat says one thing doesn't necessarily convert to more points hence the reason why you need more than just attack to score points

[@chrisfairfield1198]

Think there point is it’s not as structured as the Scottish attack and there doesn’t seem to be many set plays. Sco and Eng played both, but you could argue Scotland left a lot more points out there in both games than England did. That’s nothing against England, Scotland just weren’t clinical this autumn. But on the whole across the two games, Scotland had far more chances in attack than England did.

[@andrewturner5449]

England just not good enough to compete at top table.Finnish forth in six nations if lucky.We need a realty check,new coach,new league format and let players play what they see in front of them.End stupid rule about were players play,if good enough to play for country.

[@owenfarmer4197]

I know this is a review but Japan… Are they making the mistake of buying in too many foreign names…. Bit like the prem

[@tobyslater2011]

Finn Smith and Tom Roebuck both looked awesome (only 20mins off bench 😢 ) 11 Roebuck // I F-W, 15 Furbank, 14 Sleightholme next 6N

[@jlm4455]

They looked awesome against a bunch of inexperienced and tired Japanese players. Those Japanese lads currently would struggle to make a Prem team's match day squad. Let me know when Roebuck looks good v decent competition because I haven't seen it yet.

[@tobyslater2011]

T Roebuck scoring every week with Sale Sharks (Manchester) Finn Smith’s won a Prem Final and beaten Munster away in Europe (Ireland’s 10 Jack Crowley) etc.

[@dazzac007]

Great podcast both! I disagree about playing, easier teams first to build game time. Obviously, I can't speak on behalf of the players, however, I feel a team should play what's ahead of them (1st/2nd game) regardless who it is and even after a long break. I think the cohesion will come. We're a team in transition and believe they will get better over time. 🙏🏻

[@Popsicle946]

Sadly, not against a quality opponent. God! With the money the RFU has for the game in this country, we should beat Japan..

[@owenfarmer4197]

Smith has been Englands best weapon this Autumn but the other backs are not always on the same page. I like the idea of Finn at 10 and Smith at 15 Some of the pack are looking good, very good, not sure what’s happening between Slade and Ollie which seems to me where we stutter in attack. Too easy to pick out individuals around the defence but those who have fallen off or completely missed tackles know who they are and the coaches do as well.

[@jlm4455]

Smith had a great game v the Aussies. What he did or didn't do v Japan? Who cares, Japan are nowhere a good measuring stick. He was decent against ABs at times but overall he made too many errors and England's attack was woeful. Against the Boks Smith started well but then blocked kick, poor passes, caught rushing out the line and in general had a mediocre at best game. I also seriously question whether Smith can deliver under the high ball or make tackles in space. FB isn't all about running in open play. Need to good in all areas. I don't see Smith as that type of player. He is outstanding in open space attack but when game gets tight with less space he struggles.

[@leighmarsden623]

WOW 5 wins from 12 this season! Ireland, France and Scotland next for England - Can already hear the excuses coming from Borthwick!

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

They beat Japan. Be thankful for the victory. Don’t moan.

[@realjamiehodgson]

It was disappointing that despite a lot of scoring for England, most of the tries were pushes from the forwards... Where is this free flowing rugby that Borthwick is telling me I saw?!

[@newchannelname3395]

Marcus Smith will never be a truly top level fly-half at international level. He does very little to bring his teammates into play, so the attack would only work if we had a proper QB style scrum half (eg. Dupont) playing alongside him.

[@Blockplay2350]

You just realising that the only thing Steve Borthwick is good at is talking bollocks and having zero evidence to back it up???