Enneagram 5 and the Narcissist

[@CarlosCG24]

Thank you for sharing this information, Maria! As a type 5, it has helped me become more self-aware of myself and my inner strengths, and how to redirect my energy to achieve my goals. Greetings from Ecuador! 😊

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Glad to hear the information has been helpful! Thanks for commenting!

[@thislittleweirdgirl332]

I am a five who married a four (didn't know about the enneagram until he tested through his employer. I self tested), and all of this is so spot on. He had many "rules for thee but not for me", and also changed his boundaries at the drop of a hat, even after years of upholding a boundary, and it drove me crazy. I never knew what I was working with. And when I tried to put up boundaries, he called me selfish and bulldozed every single one of them. Slowly through marriage, I distanced myself because he was unsafe and would not respect my time, my resources or my boundaries. I didn't realize it until the end because he kept me in his emotional loops and battling his alternate reality to the point of brain fog, cognitive disfunction and memory issues. I also had physical manifestations of stress, like IBS and while a five can push through stress like no other, we eventually get the heck out for our sanity. Gaslighting, manipulation and causing a 5 to fight for reality is a profoundly wounding. I've been self-isolated for months, starting from my split in October of last year, due to my lack of trust in people. I have thought about counseling to work through the issues, but haven't figured out what the right kind of therapy is. All my marriage therapist did was provide an emotional mirror and try to validate me. I already know my emotions are valid, but I wanted to know if my reality was. I didn't want or need an emotional mirror, I needed to understand what happened, or what was happening. This video helped in many ways to see why the interactions I had with my husband and his accusations of my emotional ineptitude over the years caused confusion and long term grieving, which led to feeling unsafe and misunderstood, disrespected and unloved.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

What a powerful and accurate account of the 5 going up against the narcissist. Glad to hear the video was helpful. I think there are many layers and approaches to therapy and so I'd encourage you to seek out someone to help you with the deeper awareness that is surfacing in you now. Julie is wonderful... if you're open to working with a therapist online (assuming you're not in Phoenix), I highly recommend her. Her contact info is in the show notes. I wish you the best on your healing journey.

[@christyjohnson5618]

So well said.

[@Rumplegirlskin]

I’ve been saying stay out of my bubble for over a decade now. A friend one day said it to me and she told some else, “Stay out of her bubble, we all know to stay out of her bubble😂.” I hadn’t noticed at that time that I was like that so overtly. I also say I want an island to myself, with small neighboring islands for family and friends. But they would have to take a boat over. That is perfect because then no one is going to just pop-up at my house. 😆 The narcissist that I’m currently trying to figure out how to get away from, embodies everything I am hearing. He takes my need for space very personally. No matter how many times I tell him that it isn’t personal and I’ve been this way my entire life, he still throws it in my face. I value my time and can’t stand when people waste time. I also can’t stand inefficiency and using my energy. I need it, and no… I never feel like I have enough. I definitely have this fear of not having enough as the day goes on. However, my biggest fear is intrusion. I told him that I need time to think and learn. He is the type to blatantly just start talking while you are reading a book. So at first I stopped reading them, then I started waiting until he left. But he even changed his work schedule so that he is gone while I am asleep, but here around me all…day…long. He feels he is doing me a huge favor by going to a friend’s house so I can get some space. He will go on and on about doing this for me and how hard it is. When my father died, he cried in a corner and started self loathing about how hard it will be now. He never met him! I was so taken aback. He would not let me mourn my own father. I was very close to my father. He said one day, “You don’t understand, I can’t replace him. I will never be good enough.” I was like uhm.. no you can’t. It is my father and I didn’t marry him, gross.” But I married this guy because I thought needed to be protected. I was in a state that just has a different mentality. He sort of ambushed me with the marriage proposal. Then on the 31st day of marriage, the day after I could get an annulment, he told me some of the most gruesome secrets. I wanted to throw up. He even made us sit back to back, I had never heard of anyone doing this. Everything I thought I knew was a lie. He was pretty much a sadist. However, he also mirrors me. I hate that. It is like he has no identity. It feels like he is plagiarizing my character. The same things he will argue with me about, are the same things that he pretends are his natural/original thoughts to others. To the point of speaking like me, which he is good at mimicking others. I’m also a 5 who is an empath, which for some reason everyone thinks can’t be true at once. How it was a psychologist who told me first when I couldn’t explain how I felt in certain circumstances. He drains my energy just being in the house too long. He found some certifications and documentation that had things like IQ and some awards from school, but they showed “Gifted and Highly Intelligent” on them. He freaked out and said I was hiding it from him. They were in a sealed envelope I didn’t open nor did I think about it. I knew what it was because it was sent to me when my father passed. He went on this insane tirade. Then he sulked around for days. I finally said, “You know I don’t like or need the show, just talk to me and tell me what is going on, don’t bait me.” He said, “I’m just down because what if our kids are like you. What if they are all gifted. Where will that leave me.” I was stunned! But he got me… I wound up sort of dumming down so he could feel better. To this day he will have moments where he gets upset because the kids talk like me, or say my phrases. I didn’t notice. But I asked him if he also has a problem with them being left-handed too, because I have no control over that. And they only repeat things from the perspective of an introvert. Not copying me for the sake of copying. He was still highly bothered and I can’t understand why. But it broke me the other day because in my head I’m like, “What is so wrong with me? Why is it so bad they have some random traits like me? I didn’t force that on them. They are with me all day while you make me a single-married-mother.” Then I realized that I explained I never enjoyed my time in the city I met him in because people act like you were born to go against them somehow. Just because you are from somewhere else, or you don’t act the way they do. All-in-all it is just sad. I don’t need pity of anything, yes I want to be understood, just not for negative circumstances. I just would like one person to understand me being me is not hurting anyone. I only want to seek solutions and gain understanding.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Oh wow. That is a whole lot. I’m glad you have developed that bubble as a way to navigate some challenging dynamics. Thank you for commenting and for watching. I hope the episode maybe brought you some helpful insights into what sounds like a really hard situation.

[@mailys012]

one way narcissists gets interested in 5s is that 5 will refuse to give them attention and to draw attention to themselves. Some narcissists will see this refusal to connect or process emotions as a provocation, like a prey starting to run, and they will start to keep pushing until they get what they want. The more resistance they get the more interested they become

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

True if the 5 isn’t self-aware. But if the 5’s self-awareness and boundaries are solid, the narcissist will likely find an easier target. This is where knowing (and working with) your enneagram is so helpful. I think it also depends on the nature of the relationship and how entangled the two are. A casual work relationship versus a marriage would likely look very different.

[@jerrysstories711]

Very true. I'm 5 as hell, and in my dating days, I had three gorgeous but toxic women get absolutely obsessed with me and try every manipulative trick in the book. It was thrilling but confusing and I was too naive to understand what was going on. They were all accustomed to getting slavish attention from men, and they mistook my lack of interest for confidence. When I broke up with them, they all thought I was just playing hardball. I eventually realized exactly what you said above. I wasn't even aware of the bullets I'd dodged.

[@skantewarrior522]

great video!

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Thank you!

[@nathanspoon]

Thank you so much for this video. I'm a type 5 and also autistic, which is like being born as a bully/narcissist magnet. My spouse often says I have a protective bubble that helps me when out alone and especially when traveling to give poetry readings or paper presentations. I love the encouragement to keep the bubble strong!

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

You’re very welcome! Glad you appreciated the reference and that you could relate to it. As a fellow enneagram 5, I can attest that the bubble is an essential skill in many stressful situations. As long as we don’t stay there, it’s a great resource!

[@Chris-tg3qy]

I am a 5 and had a narc at work who did everything they could to turn people against me which included lying and sabotage. It was easy because I am hard to get to know. BUT, I watch EVERYTHING and I keep RECEIPTS. Needless to say, I had the proof of what they were doing and they are gone. I felt something about them was off from day 1.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Well done. Type 5s will always keep the records!

[@Chris-tg3qy]

@@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher Yes. Once I got the vibe that this individual was not trustworthy, I kept everything. Every email I wrote was done with the intention that it might be seen by Human Resources. So, I would ask for confirmation of their understanding and their lack of response was duly noted. Ha ha. I wing to a 6 so I do find some humor in this too. Although it was stressful at times, I could also laugh about the ridiculousness of the situation.

[@vapalaca]

I’m a 5 in love with a 5. We both have a crush on each other and it’s really difficult. It seems easier for us to avoid each other. We also work together. It’s beautiful but challenging I wonder if this will work out. ❤

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

I could see where this could become a struggle if you let your 5 limit you. Here’s the thing I’d wonder about… how developed are each of your 8 lines? What can each of you do to grow into that healthy 8 line? You are not stuck in a box. You are not your type. Your type is your dominant expression. It’s not all of your expression. You have lines. You have wings. You have subtypes. Where can you grow, breathe, and move in your Enneagram? This is the real work of the Enneagram.