Enneagram: Blind Spots of Type 5

[@misstigermilk]

Fives are now researching this matter.

[@jenofire8724]

😂 sooo true.

[@misovejasescuchanmivoz]

We are

[@misovejasescuchanmivoz]

All types from 9 to 8

[@instrumentofbeing]

speak for yourself. I am leaning heavily on my 6 wing and arguing every point in my head.

[@Bioniking]

This is one of the best enneagram channel on the KZbin. With that said, the hardest part for me making the first move, just showing up. It's a huge _mental_ hurdle

[@twlahue]

Thanks.

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

It really is!

[@BladexZero12]

Right!! And even further, sometimes I'm like "That was actually really nice" or "That went better than expected". And then I'd feel bad for making a fuss about coming in the first place.

[@jeremyncrm2012]

The debate vs conflict is so true for me. I love love love to take ideas and pick them apart, hear others opinions, then pick them apart, and see every angle I can. Conflict on the other hand immediately makes me shut down and check out. I want to argue nicely, not hurt anyones feelings.

[@lauriecampbell1378]

"They are going to be thorough in things they CARE about." Yes, if something holds my interest I will be very detail oriented; otherwise I will cut corners just to be done with the task. 5w6

[@lauriecampbell1378]

@Christopher Hall You are correct in your analysis of my response. I should have said that I will dive deep into a subject that interests me, otherwise I will cut corners to be done with it.

[@ginalienn1112]

Yes, I’m a 5w4 and I totally agree.

[@TalkswithBellaTT]

Yup!

[@BeeFlexible]

As a 5, sometimes I don't even fully grasp what "feeling" an emotion is like because I'm so used to "thinking" them I guess. It happens spontaneously sometimes but not often and not for long before I start processing it mentally.

[@BeeFlexible]

And when it happens spontaneously, it's overwhelming until I intellectualize it

[@prickster]

so true!

[@RandolphTheWhite1]

I was listening to a podcast with Beatrice Chestnut, and she said 5s fear feeling, 6s fear being, and 7s fear pain. I thought that was interesting how fear is expressed in different ways in different people

[@twlahue]

Thanks, interesting..

[@RandolphTheWhite1]

@Fire tears oh...well now I hate myself. I can't believe I wouldn't include that information in my comment

[@RandolphTheWhite1]

@Fire tears How stereotypically iconoclastic of you to say that

[@saloni.sharma]

@Fire tears I was about to say something similar I'm a balanced bisexual (high 5 :p) 5 sx/so and I hate stereotypical portrayal of 5s as these fearful thinking bots. All 5s I've met including myself, feel deeply but in their own different ways. One of my 5 friends is very social and outgoing, so much so that you'd think she'd not 5 if you were to believe the hard and fast description of a 5. Same goes for any other type. You can't generalise all traits of any personality type, only the core of it. It is psychologically inaccurate when it's done and most definitely not as helpful.

[@saloni.sharma]

@Fire tears yes that's correct. It's just that people are complex beings and it's beautiful.. But it also means that we need to learn more about ourselves and others around us before making hard assumptions, which is a point that a lot of people miss out.

[@person4.0]

Many many days, I don't want to communicate with ANYONE at all, in person, especially. I deeply just be wanting to be left alone. I never feel lonely either. I absolutely love my time alone and I am always thoroughly entertained!

[@wendyshiflett7128]

I don't even like debate because it so often leads to a competition of ideas, and ultimately conflict. However, I love deep discussions, exploring ideas and possibilities. I've most often found this annoys others, as I examine the topic from numerous angles, so I shut down, finding it easier to disengage rather than be discouraged by the eventual aggravation my enthusiastic exploration seems to cause.

[@nawaf7138]

I was just about to complain about not having enough 5 content, what is this wizardry? thank you for the great content, you're doing a great job.

[@twlahue]

Thanks so much...

[@consistentlychristy2991]

As a 5, I think my feelings all the time. Almost all of this is spot on for me. Thank you for it, you’ve been a great resource. Your 7 energy makes me think my dad is probably 7 as well so that’s very comforting.

[@twlahue]

Glad to help.

[@melissal4363]

I am an INFJ 2 happily married to an INTJ 5. His personality actually helps me navigate my own. I love/respect him for all his 5-ness. Coaxing from safe island, huddles before massive intrusion gatherings, leaving space for his recharge, and not taking it personally is our teamwork. He lets me unravel, is such a great listener (haa...or appears so....). Recently told him "I understand the bottomlime AND I am having emotions over it that will pass. I need a 'there there bunny bunny' to help dissolve my raw feelings." It may take him 24hrs but he always delivers. I love enneagram work!

[@Jbabi123]

I've been waiting patiently for this video and it comes out on my birthday haha. Blindspot #2 is something I just worked through this past month with my wife. It's amazing how deep my love was for her but I was too afraid to show it or say it out loud. For me, I feared her rejecting my love so I kept everything inside, appearing like a robot on the outside but bursting with emotions on the inside. You talk about how much Type 4 is needed for a Type 5 and she is a 4v5 and I'm a 5w4. Interesting how life works sometimes, keep up the good work Tom!

[@peteherb5170]

my wife's nickname for me is 'robot'... 🤖

[@thescapegoatmechanism8704]

Wow, you hit the nail on the head with the debate/conflict distinction. I like discussing worldviews, but if you give me attitude, I’m out. Haha I get 4 wing practice from my wife. I definitely cut corners at work, though. 😬

[@twlahue]

Glad to help. You will get no debate from me! Or, conflict either.

[@diannemaloney5501]

Well Dr. LaHue, I am a 5, and this describes me to a T. I bought a car three weeks ago and you described the process I followed exactly. And I think I will be watching this video about Blind Spots over and over again. I really appreciate these videos, please keep them coming.

[@lauren12]

Ugh those last 4 minutes had me like 😂😂😂 yup yup yup. I’ve always been told I’m lazy, as long as I can remember because cleaning/ work I don’t care about often isn’t a priority and won’t get done. My poor dog is having a good day if she’s fed twice a day (I usually just fill up her bowl aaaaalll the way so it lasts her a while - and I have 4 kids so she’s not top priority) I’m so thankful to have found the enneagram and especially this KZbin channel because I have learned so much about myself! Like making the dog more of a priority, like trying to care about buying new clothes more than once every 2 years... like keeping the house tidy. I’d much rather being listening to audio books, knitting and sitting in the grass with a strong cup of coffee but that’s not where I am in my life right now. 🥰 And my husband is an 8 so he has helped me move into action a ton, and I have helped him slow down... it’s so cool how it all fits together.

[@DreamQuillRose]

As a 5, I've avoided the very idea of dating for almost 30 years. I've been working on myself in the last two years to let myself feel my feelings more - I've cried more in the past two years than in the last 28 years combined. I'm trying to figure out a way to associate the idea of dating and eventually living with another human being, but the idea of conflict being inevitable keeps holding me back. I keep having angry arguments with an imaginary significant other in my head. I imagine myself having an argument with someone, deciding that it's not worth the energy, and breaking up with them, and being alone again. I feel stuck on this idea. How do other types have conflict and still stay together?

[@CyberPunkBadGuy]

simply dont , its not for you , as long as you are content , why go out of your way to pick up more problems because people should do this or people should be this way , these people are not you , are they not?

[@spreadlove2628]

Well the way the brain works is, our imagination creates our reality, and what ever our dominant thoughts are in our subconscious mind is what's going to play out on the screen of our life. So it seems like you need to do some work on your subconscious mind to change your outcome.

[@melissal4363]

My husband expressed exact story to me. I hope you keep working at it because we are so happy. I knew I was dating a porcupine and used a ton of caution. Shes out there, likely an introvert too. Best of luck😊

[@hannahwilliams9290]

a lot of patience with myself. and others. i'm a type 5, and i'm still working on that. i journal a lot, and have admitted, i am ultimately my favorite person. i have gotten better at identifying what type of people are too draining for me to be around. and, i do question the worthwhileness of many relationships, but yeah just a lot of inner work, reflection and patience, that helps me get over my need to avoid the complexity of relationships.

[@randomgirl8078]

Marriage is for having children. dating is for finding a marriage partner with the same goals (a family) and complimentary/supplementary personality. When you dont have a shared project (literally creating a hostage situation), there is no NEED to stay together. So, stop feeling bad that you cant figure out how to create the hollywood love story that is simply not realistic at all. that's my advice. i could be wrong. (I did feel the same way you do - i found a partner at 30 and now have three kids that are almost out of the house)

[@jkk45]

It feels so good to be understood

[@aydengertiser4346]

12:51 I think the important part is that in debate you are not challenging the other person, you are challenging their beliefs. Two totally different things.

[@ginalienn1112]

This is so spot on! I feel exposed. (In a good way though.)

[@cosmogang]

Holy crap. Dude. This is so insanely accurate.

[@thesoares5128]

Really appreciate your videos, they have been a big help! A 5w6 here but 4 and 9 also play into the stats as well. Something I have realized as to the "stinginess" with information that you mention. Information is valuable to a 5, so if I sense that you will not or do not value it as much as I do then why expend the energy to share it with you?! Definitely value connection with others and feel intense emotions, but like someone else said, it stays internal until we can figure it out and control it. Emotion seems like it ruins things when it trumps knowledge. Movies may not be very fun to watch with a 5 as we tend to sit back and think, "this is all just pretend/acted out anyway, why get emotional about it." I am new to the Enneagram and it was such a relief to realize my type, as 5's are often misunderstood or misjudged as to what is really going on inside. Had the sneaking suspicion I was just a freak of nature, so to be so understood has been very healing! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@macoeur1122]

5w4 here...Relating to emotions as thoughts...I'd say yes, often, but that it's a conscious choice to do so. I'm actually quite capable of feeling my emotions, but when life throws enough "emotional curveballs", at some point the time and energy cost of going into every little emotion can become just too much and requires a strategy adjustment. I'm also an INFJ-A...I don't know if that makes any difference in this equation but after having spent plenty of my lifetime "feeling my emotions", I now feel like I know where that will eventually lead....and then I attempt to "skip" to that place...after identifying the emotion and feeling it fully...in the privacy of my own space, and if possible, QUICKLY moving through it....and then I'll sort of cognitively "zoom out", taking in the larger view and "problem solve"....and then when it comes to sharing those feelings with others, yes, it's one step removed from the feeling...and yes...more of a cognitive "explanation"....and yes, I find it's more "efficient" in my own particular circumstances to operate in this way. Does this make me "greedy" with my time and energy? I think it just makes me wiser with it...or at least I hope so. I don't believe I have a "greedy" bone in my body...I am an INFJ after all....I think these are just "potential tendencies" that the enneagram mentions. I actually had to learn to be more self-interested and to learn to create strong boundaries. Yeah, I'll admit that I do protect my time, energy, space, and boundaries, and value them highly ....but I like to think I do so "consciously" now, when my "INFJness" almost used to "invite" time/energy vampires"....Always striving for the "happy medium" here, knowing that any coping strategy taken too far or used unconsciously (like on "auto-pilot") can potentially become problematic. One more thing.."As" an INFJ, introverted intuition is my strongest function and I do use it a lot...It "feeds" me gut intuitions, and then I use feeling and thinking to supplement how I process those intuitions. I guess my point is, I strongly relate to many, if not most, of the "5 traits" but I feel there are many other factors that "pull on me"

[@leogrrrl5876]

Nice to hear from another INFJ 5! ☺

[@macoeur1122]

@@leogrrrl5876 cool!....So there are others out there! Good to know! Thanks for that! Erik Thor (here on KZbin) once told me INFJ 5s are unlikely....Well that may be, I suppose, but maybe he's wrong. I do often feel that there has been nothing at all common about my life, which might have "twisted" me into being even more rare than your average INFJ.

[@leogrrrl5876]

@@macoeur1122 I just asked on a Personality Hacker podcast with Beatrice Chestnut if they believe that you can be any MBTI type with any Enneagram type, & Joel said yes. (So I think we can conclude that at least he & Antonia agree). Erik Thor has written for their website, but maybe he disagrees, as do Ben & Jonathan who film with Katherine Fauvre. So, split vote? But 5 & its wings resonate best for me (even though I also have 9 & 4 in my tritype).

[@leogrrrl5876]

@@macoeur1122 Oh, & boundary work is excellent for INFJ's Fe! Well done ☺

[@macoeur1122]

@@leogrrrl5876 I'm not too concerned at this point whether others think "I'm possible" lol :))....I feel pretty certain I've got it right.

[@sn3596]

I like the distinction you make between debating and conflict. I actually really like discussing or debating things because I want to understand it more deeply or the other person, but I hate conflict. As soon as it turns personal or emotional/into conflict, it stresses me out because I'm then forced to be openly emotional or vulnerable, and that's not a situation I feel safe to get into with most people. For this reason, I tend to talk more with people who understand my detachment and mirror it, we have a lot of conversations where we can be analytical, yet honest about how we feel because we know the other won't take it personally. I used to be very avoidant of conflict, and I still am to a degree, but I realise now that I can and should engage in conflict with others when necessary, aka when I can see it will resolve an issue.

[@MindfullyMindy]

Thank you for your time, energy, and insight.

[@LaurenDelsackAstrologer]

Spot on with conflict, totally draining. I can debate, but only for so long. Energy drain ;-)

[@shauntayh4788]

This was so helpful. Thank you!

[@8teillumin]

This is a Really fascinating discussion/lecture.. just really getting into enneagrams after 25 years of MBTI loving balancing both systems as a form of understanding… Due to a very recent discovery of a mood disorder (explains 45 years of issues with existence) I have found counselling and talk therapy to be so helpful and coupled with MBTI and now Enneagrams it’s pushing me even further forward as a person than I ever was… I see myself as a joyous INTP as I can be very extrovert (I work in the entertainment industry) so have taught myself to be stronger and develop a head space to deal with social engagement (still need the decompress period). So with daily life and relationships this Joyous INTP-A 5w4/6 can really cope quite happily and has developed to learn to evolve my 4 and 6 wings through friends, family and relations.. Now these videos are really helping me to reasurch and develop my thinking. I have just managed to loose a beautiful relationship and fiancée due to allowing myself to get too comfortable and due to a downward mood cycle in 2021 to keep one financial problem to myself. I hate heated arguments and conversation and debate is easier and more constructive so co-morbid with the then in-diagnosed mild mood disorder crippled me with a shame loop of disconnecting from my ex… my ex has an issue with debt due to previous ex’es. It was foolish as I felt safe with her but felt ashamed about this single problem (covid related issue) so she decided I wasn’t honest enough…. I knew exactly what I needed to do/say but it just stopped in my throat… I feel so hurt and drained by it all ……….. I tried so hard to connect with her but still had an emotional deficit with her as she is slightly dismissive. Never did get her to do an enneagram but she is an ENTJ but well that’s another avenue closed… Funnily enough I’m rebuilding a black colour SAAB 9-5 speed machine into an Electric whilst driving a little Honda to work…

[@konni7868]

Thank you for this. It is very helpful and I’m sure I’ll come back to listen to it again.

[@davidm7585]

That car sounds awesome.. and is obviously the best car. You immediately just move to vanity.. what you like is completely linked to the external "fashion" of a car.

[@twlahue]

Right? That car's not just a ride; it's a whole mood! Can’t blame us for loving something that looks and sounds this good!

[@ericabalko916]

6:50 I really appreciate what you are trying to convey here. As a 5w6 I think the best way I can explain it is that I do not know I have certain emotions or put another way it is extremely extremely hard to even name them let alone express them. Think of it like trying to identify an animal you cannot see. I think that’s slightly different than the 7 avoidance of pain. BUT I also see how both experience emotions as painful and therefore avoid them. Jus for 5s its bc the work to identify them when you cannot see them is exhausting.

[@Encryptus1]

As a 5w6, I like to be prepared for a rainy day. I own two japanese cars from the 90's because they are easy for me to fix, are reliable and with better milleage than a Prius. People try to shame me for owning then 🙄 It's way better then being in debt all the way to my eyeballs... The most visible colour is white, like both my cars. Relationships can be nourishing but also highly destructive. My last girlfriend used what I confided in her to attack me because I did not concede to her manipulations. I decided to never date again. Just not worth the energy really. It's better used in restauring my 30 year old classic car to factory condition.

[@Mamatruffle]

I'm in my early 30s and I just found enneagram. I'm definitely in that in-between of 5 and 8. Being open and challenging my partner has been helpful, I'm slowly letting go of my polite, reclusive mask.

[@donotneedtoknow7541]

"Emotions cloud the issue. Cold, clear logic wins the day." - Sir Robert Morton _The Winslow Boy_

[@peteherb5170]

love this! 😅

[@sarcasticnerd2726]

As a 5w4, I can say that the car thing was very accurate. Although I have not yet bought a car, I experienced this when I bought my laptop. I spent quite some time doing research on what was the best laptop for the best price and so I knew what I was looking for. Once I got into the store and I saw the laptops, my wing 4 kicked in and I refused to buy any computer that I did not like the design of. There were better computer in terms of price but I would hated them because the design was just not me. In the end, I think I made the right choice.

[@drewwrealtor]

I’m a type 5 and a I drive a 2006 Scion XB, color: burnt penny 😂

[@wang87100]

hi..have you done a video with how the different types deal with their anger?

[@twlahue]

No, good idea though.

[@DEANDEAN-w3r]

Thats incredible how you know all that

[@twlahue]

Thanks

[@Thanxloveit]

Oh my goodness, such an excellent video. ♥

[@ericabalko916]

Min 19 the car analogy oh man alive this is the truth!

[@bills1967]

I’m an INTP and I wanted to get a Prius as my first car because of its gas mileage but my father who was helping me pushed me to get a Volvo and I regret it now 😂

[@ashleyching3166]

Relationships can be nourishing?!

[@claramercier7924]

Ok what do you have against the color yellow ? the shoes and then the car :o

[@shaktihurst610]

Thank you ! I am a four and I really struggle wth my 12 year old type five

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

I didn't see this coming!

[@stephenvieting]

I’m a 5 and i drive my wife crazy because i tend to make clothing decisions based on fit and cost independent of color so I’ve worn bright green track suit just for the mere fact it was on clearance. I couldn’t understand why she couldn’t see my perspective on finding a bargain and i couldn’t see her perspective of being married to somebody who would go in public wearing bright green track suit

[@charlespackwood]

I think 5s can easily become very goal oriented, so when they are in this mode they find distractions naturally tiring, having to return to their last train of thought. Some people are more intrusive than others. They are constantly sharing what they haven't thought through, as this is how they process: unfortunately they do this with a 5 as a sound board. To a 5, this appears as though the person is an airhead. This is compounded by the fact that such people are inevitably not talking about topics that interest the 5. In the mind of a 5, it would be expeditious for this person to hang with someone else.

[@suzannehutnick2662]

Super helpful. Thank you!

[@diannemaloney5501]

What, Blind Spots, me? What you talking about? I got no Blind Spots! ;)

[@twlahue]

Right...

[@Collegeandbroncos]

Dr. Tom LaHue would you consider doing a 3w4 vs 4w3 video? I’m really struggling to see which one is my lead. I relate to the childhood wounds of both.

[@charlespackwood2055]

Can you have any feelings whatsoever about something that you have never invested a single thought on? (Please describe, in depth, your feelings about the planet Neptune.) (1) Can thoughts be completely independent of feelings? (2) Can (emotional) feelings be completely independent of thoughts? I see the answers to these two questions as: (1) Yes. (2) No. This means that there is a high probability that the more you think about a thing, the stronger that you will have feelings with regards to that thing.

[@margaretjudice8944]

Good information! Thank you for sharing!

[@CaRa-zj2yo]

Dr Tom , do you have a book recommendation focussing on 2’s and how to improve? Like a work book. So that the books helps to work on myself. Love your channel ❤️thanks for the work you put in!

[@twlahue]

Yes, absolutely. "The Disease To Please" by Harriet Braiker

[@TalkswithBellaTT]

After having something amazing happen for my business I told my bf that I wanted to have a day of celebration. At the end of that day he asked me how I felt and my response was “what, happy?” Lmaoo like I was asking him what emotion I should feel or what he was expecting me to feel 😂😂 @3:40

[@trustyourself-ashleyching3646]

The dog will always get fed!

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

13:40 [5-9-4] I routinely iconoclast myself into the doldrums even when I'm being fairly mindful, and that is something I would really rather not infect almost anyone else with. Coupled with a bout of humility and intellectual interest in seeing someone else's hypothesis come to fruition, it can become fiendishly hard for me to not overheat my engagement fuses. The icing and cherry is my latent tendency to go straight for my big argument guns in conflict, which always has horrible collateral damage. My current best management approach is to frame it as my negotiation and sales praxis game. "How best can we...." "So, we want " May my pratteling be of some use to someone. 😸

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

And yes behold the 5 rationalize his behavior with such high minded and gravitas imbued word salad lol

[@paulcollins6732]

Us Fives? Blind spots?

[@ayp5177]

I think I'm an Enneagram 7 but I do relate to this

[@johnmiller0000]

What book are you referring to?

[@twlahue]

I don't remember, that was a long time ago...

[@501Labsmusic]

You said "percieved" lack of mental resources ... Is it actually percieved?( This is a genuine question) If so, how might a 5 rationalize something that seems so innate as being a fabrication of their mind? If fear of the lack of mental resources is what drives them to withhold those resource and that entire premise is a falsity then how might they overcome that ... and what would that even look like since that fear is so central to their framework of life?

[@JohnDoe-wc5wd]

5w6 arguing > "My emotions cost so much even I can't afford them, good luck with your two-bit words ha ha ha" 5w6 generally > "I have emotions let me prove it to u"

[@johnmiller0000]

Type 5 here: why is it considered a negative to not waste energy on feeling. Why not flip it? Other types that freak out about things, wasting energy instead of solving the problem. (This is a rhetorical question!)

[@twlahue]

Hey, thanks for your input! It's cool to think about how we use our energy in different ways.

[@ericabalko916]

Min 23 personal hygiene! True

[@charlespackwood]

Don't you have emotions about things that you focus on? I mean I don't have depth of feelings regarding your pickup truck. But whatever has my heart and mind's focus will inevitably have a connection to my emotions. What kind of feelings can you have to things that you are apathetic about day-in-&-day-out.

[@okamsrazor1]

conflict when you can't think through it or there isn't a rational basis.

[@helenhart4368]

I did drive the turd for 14 years! Then the engine died, and I had to have a car payment again 🥺

[@twlahue]

14 years is impressive! I guess the Turd was like that friend who overstays their welcome-eventually, you just have to cut ties and move on!

[@ashleyching3166]

Relationships as a source of nourishment?! Lol

[@DEANDEAN-w3r]

Greed really that's interesting.

[@twlahue]

Right

[@benjaminchung8767]

This is astrology for people tied to logic

[@alfouzacademy8416]

Your children are type 5 ?

[@twlahue]

My son is sx 5w4

[@alfouzacademy8416]

@@twlahue your wife I am type five And my mother type 5 My brother type 5 My sisters type 5 My father type 7

[@SimplyDrK33]

SPOT on, it’s worth tackling these blind spots, I’ve seen it first hand.

[@johnmiller0000]

A 5 wouldn't care if they were driving a lemon yellow turd. Screw what other people think!

[@twlahue]

Haha, love your mindset! Just enjoy the drive, no matter what others think!

[@CyberPunkBadGuy]

the car analogy is useless , cause yes the type 5 want to drive that , cause the only motication given to not drive it is what random other people think when there were so many pros given already so what happens is. 2 choices , a bad of pros and 1 con you dont even car about and the next one is little to no pros BUT YAY MYC AR LOOKS NICE AND I APPEAL TO THE AVERAGE RANDOM A HOLE- I MEAN PERSON WHO I DONT CARE ABOUT OR NO.

[@ianlandellsolano5850]

Finally XD

[@wendywilliams9189]

Basically, if you are a feeler, DON’T get with these type. They may seem ‘mysterious’ but you will be left empty, drained and knowing that you may have put in years to yield very little. As a feeler, the only reason why we end up with these types is because we are trying to prove ‘the Tim man does have a heart’ ! They don’t love… they CAN’T and that’s ok. Run… don’t walk! Love who loves you and leave them to wallow in their heads