Entire Process of Making Laser Transfers!

[@JohnBlessed5]

What is the major difference between a white toner printer and a normal laser printer for t-shirt printing? What are the pros and cons?

[@shaquillefuller9684]

I just received my iColor 800w and I am in love with it already! You definitely have to take your time and know what you are doing. Having the right type of graphic design, heat, pressure determines a pass or fail when pressing the A to B sheets. Purchased from Garment Printer Ink and the ProPeel paper feels soft and comparable to screen printing!

[@jwh4510]

I’m a little confused on the maximum sheet size on the iColor 800. Manufacturers website brochure has max as 12.6 x 18 but resellers say 13 x 19. Can you tell me what the maximum sheet size and max print area is? Thanks in advance.

[@jdovi]

JWH it’s 12.6X19 which is fine because Transfer paper is not made any larger anyway.

[@shaquillefuller9684]

JWH roughly 12.60 x 19

[@davidsamuels6734]

How is the washability? How long will shirts last?

[@sacool3588]

I've always hated heat transfer since the quality felt low like paper. Can you tell this is a heat transfer as well? Does the quality by touch actually feel great?

[@GoblinGreen2021]

are these transfers the same as used on miniature water decals ?

[@brandsandempires]

That would be a different type of transfer, still compatible. Paul Bechtel over at the Diecast Graveyard channel uses the AquaClear transfers for exactly that. The ones I demoed awhile ago are the 2 step shirt transfers.

[@shanebaldwin3917]

to cool print faster i use a piece of sign white steel to slide over print which sucks the heat out of the job.

[@marlenefeliciano9791]

I can use any laser printer for this??

[@jimmyfavereau]

I’ll tell you what’s refreshing... watching you share some hardcore solid info. AWesome. Salamat!!!

[@hollystotts7171]

I would like to start doing this what kind of ink and paper do you use ? Can you also use a regular printer

[@PookyNoodles]

Nothing new on this? Over two years. I'd love to know what you're working with now. Thinking about purchasing one of these machines.

[@ExposedRoot]

Finally. I have been waiting for you to show prints. You’ve been a huge help. Leaning towards a Uninet. I am a former screen printer who was experienced in shirt design and stepping, sim process, etc you I feel like I’ll be ahead of the curve. Thanks

[@juliaaraiza8707]

Hi quick question is there a way to have more videos explaining more about the settings, I’m printing a design on my icolor540 I just got and I I’m not getting no bright colors and I only have two color in the design black and hot pink

[@DMitch-uk9mu]

Can I use any laser jet printer to do foil shirts or does it have to LED type laser jet printer

[@Chu_qincheng]

Hello im planning to start a T shirt printing business and been contemplating wether to buy a DTG printer or a different one, tho I saw your video and was wondering what's what's feelin of the print on the T Shirt from this printer, does it feel natural like how DTG Prints in garments? Thanks!

[@jmm4708]

Can you show us how this print process stands up to washing? What is the durability of the print does vary on different t-shirts 100% cotton vs 50/50?

[@ShantaSmith]

What printer are you using?

[@NortheastDriversClub]

You should mention a very important step to the A/B marrying process and that is to preheat the lower platen first for a few seconds before laying the sheets down. It will help prevent the toner ink from lifting off the A sheet during the peeling process.

[@brandsandempires]

That's a good step to mention especially since it's probably the biggest cause of waste for newer owners. However I glossed over virtually all of the information that would have made this an instructional video rather than an expose for the curious.

[@nigejuan71]

Yep I wasted alot of money learning that mistake

[@frankynakamoto2308]

@@brandsandempires Can potassium be transferred with lasers so it can be read by the nucleus cpu core?????.

[@billyantes]

what kind of printer is good for a beginner?

[@ceezb5629]

Is it possible to make these type of designs using screen printing or is screen printing just generic boring logos and lettering?

[@brandsandempires]

Screen printing is capable of printing anything! However, you would need to make a screen for each color. This could mean 5-12 screens for some designs. That process takes hours upon hours and is only feasible for printing a large number of shirts at once. Laser transfers let you run a single full color shirt and then a minute later run a completely different design without any time consuming setup.

[@SNS_Detailing_Supplies]

The white base page... does the printer cut the pattern in it or when you press them together does the white only stick to the ink?

[@brandsandempires]

Great question. So the toner gets a little sticky when it heats up, and the clear sheet has a powder layer that repulsed the glue. So what happens is the glue only sticks to areas where you have printed artwork, no cutting or extra step required.

[@joseoswaldoc.2068]

Does the image feels like a sticker on the shirt?

[@Ododobe]

I was incredibly close to pitching a DTG for my department until I saw your video on why you sold yours. Every other video seemed to be announcing the second coming. Once I saw yours I delved a little deeper into it and found some others. The big thing that changed my mind was the requirement to keep it running. I run a dual purpose department, signs (screenprinted vinyl inks and wide format vinyl mounted) and branding of safety wear (mostly hi-vis vests). A lot of the time we get requests to put company logos, with tag lines, on to the front of the vests which is easy enough if they want black sublimation. For colour, we can use Printable Heatset vinyl but when it comes to those tiny letters in a tagline it is impossible to get them cut out and weeded without contemplating the meaning of life. With only an 80mm (3 1/6 inches) work with and customers demanding that they don't want that white block or border that will make it work I have been looking for a solution. With those needs in mind, do you believe that this option is viable for small runs with infrequent use? Or, do you have any ideas as to how I might be able to get around this? Love your videos and I will keep watching and learning.

[@jacquelinewakelin4338]

Did you end up buying the icolor machine?

[@Ododobe]

@@jacquelinewakelin4338 Still trying to convince them. It's a long game I am willing to hunker down for.

[@nutnics]

What paper are you using? What adhesive paper are you using? What printer are you using? Thanks.

[@brandsandempires]

Hey nutnics, icolor standard and icolor select.

[@_desertwalker_]

Slick presentation young fella, thank you for the effort, I learnt a lot from this

[@alexandermuniz3412]

hey just wondering what software are you using, what do i need to do so i can transfer print

[@Samy_aza_TTV]

How does it lay on the shirt? Better than sublimation? Thicker?

[@eddiekhan672]

You are providing excillent information..and helping alot..thanks

[@brandsandempires]

Thanks Addie.

[@Ramellosugahill]

Do you still do lazar transfer ? Or have you move on to dtf??

[@tawaskyfaulk7514]

Please help me! I have a whit toner printer , I am good all the up to the 1 press to put the design on. When I do the final press to lock in the image, i lose alot of the image on the kraft paper. 100% cotton t shirt, 310 degrees F, for 30 seconds, medium pressure. Final press for 20 seconds.

[@alexandermuniz3412]

Hey is there any free softwares that I can laser print t shirt designs?

[@johnlu-k5984]

What's the best paper to use.... Thanks

[@brandsandempires]

The best balance between cost and performance for me has been iColor standard for darks and iColor Select for light and medium shirts. lasertransfersupplies.com/pages/paper

[@michelgarcia6388]

This is very interesting. I was wondering how does this compare to supacolour?

[@antasiamillican]

I second that question.

[@magicreations4742]

Thank you so much for all you help

[@MariaGonzalez-fi6lm]

How much for the transfers

[@jody5802]

Hi Thank you for the videos they are a great help. Please can you advise what Transfer Paper you are using in this video and the link to where I can buy from.

[@brandsandempires]

Hey Jody, I used iColor Standard 2-Step. www.lasertransfersupplies.com is a good place to go. I'm thousands of shirts in now and it's still going strong for me.

[@amchildress01]

Is there any way possible you could link where you are getting the transfer paper? Also I know this video is about a year old, however I know it's possible to use a laser printer for transfers on vinyl, sublimation cups etc. Can you possibly verify this? I'm not finding anything about this anymore and before sub ink and these new printers came out, I had an inkjet which the paper didn't do anything. I sold my heatpress due to this~ It was a loss of money at that point. I do know I can print with laser onto vinyl, but I'm wondering if it's possible to use this process or something similar for a form of sublimation~ I hope I'm making sense~ lol

[@tyronedavis4149]

Man I really wish Uninet would bring you on board with them in some kind of capacity, because I believe you could really be and assert to them and help revolutionize this new technology and make it simpler to use for the novice user such as myself.

[@pabloarguello529]

What paper do you use?

[@andremalcolm_studio]

I’m just starting making my own shirts I’m super new to this. I just got the uninet 550 after watching a few of your videos I realized I should have gotten the 800.

[@MIGGNIFICENT]

How is it going?

[@olayvar15]

What do you think about the printer?

[@musicph5012]

Printer is very expensive!. Is there any cheap alternative printer can i use on this process?

[@veganlife78plants28]

could you set your printer to only print from your Photoshop setting? would that make a differences in the color printing? example i sublimate and i set it my printer to print from my Photoshop setting not printer setting when it comes to color

[@fengseamit]

what is this b sheet , adhesive + white base ??

[@revivalyonjan1668]

can anytype of lasder printer can be used to print it?????

[@sacool3588]

I usually get my stuff screen printed because I always hated how heat transfer felt. Just felt like low quality trash compared to screen print. Do these feel the same, or can it actually be passed off as similar to screen print quality when touching it?

[@JohnBlessed5]

The thing is some of these channels are paid to promote a certain t-shirt printing products so they are not objective and do not talk about certain things

[@RibbonNook]

Curious if this type of printer would be a good idea for an entry level kids t shirt business? I have never done any type of printing before but this printers look like the can do what I want to do and are somewhat affordable for beginner. Would love to know your opinion. Thanks in advance

[@adamd9008]

Great Videos! I want to make script with tail t-shirts. No graphics. Do you think this will work well with the i550 without leaving out any white or black toner (no breakage/lines in script design). Thanks!

[@warren2398]

What did you say about the silicone pad on your 8 y/o press? Its gets hard spots? What does the older silcone pad do to prints?

[@Siwu1987]

What brand of transfer paper are you using? Have you tried the WoW 7.8 Transferpaper?

[@408DOOD]

How do you get those solid vibrant colors?

[@brandsandempires]

iColor 800 + iColor Standard Paper + setting the toner coverage to 260%. On this one I don't think I even replaced the spot colors with known CMYK values for bright colors. The big factor is turning down the temperature to 265-270, and keeping the pressure somewhat low as it keeps the toner from pushing down into the underbase.

[@lairmalcolm3842]

I like you video and I subscribe to your channel....am just starting up and I have a few questions 1 what is the name of your laser printer And software you use.

[@daisyathan1]

What consumables do you suggest to buy? We're planning to buy the 800.

[@jacobgomez4503]

Hi, can you recommend the best printing method for small silicone product with surface area of 2 x 1.75inch? Lets say a silicone case.

[@CryptoChangingTheWorld]

What is the best way to print on a shirt? White toner? Sublimation with Easysubli? DTG? Other? I don't like being limited and want to go to the next level for tshirts. Any advice please?

[@marksandiford6224]

My question is if I have a live photo that I take would dis Printer be able to print and what software would I need to be compatible with this particular machine?

[@broganberryman4130]

How long does the transfer last after the marrying has been done? Can you marry a whole bunch of designs and store them away until you need to heat press them onto a shirt?

[@brandsandempires]

Yes, I'd keep them in a tote with some dessicant beads. But they should last indefinitely once married. edit: the word dessicant was auto corrected to dissonent for 6 months and no one told me.

[@JasenGarcia64]

Very nice much appreciated! How can i get one of them shirts especially with the Chimp w/Funk hat!!

[@WiltedRaven2]

What printer are you using? Im looking for a laser printer to do this. Would any laser printer work?

[@brandsandempires]

Hey Dark, I'm using the iColor 800 from over at lasertransfersupplies.com . To run transfers like I'm doing you would need something called a White Toner Laser Transfer Printer. The 560 is the entry level printer and can do most of the same stuff mine can, just on smaller individual transfers.

[@WiltedRaven2]

@@brandsandempires thank you for the information. Im trying to start up and sell my designs on t-shirts and other products. Make temporary tattoos ect. This is the best universal printer I have seen

[@assadnujjoo]

Have you ever printed with a laser CMYK Printer? How you the results be?

[@russvandine5841]

Hi, I have been thinking about a business so I can retire from being an art teacher. I have worked in the screen printing business from art to ownership. I am interested in your club. If I get the platinum member ship, is that for a number of months/year or is it month to month like most patreon?

[@ReaLHeartLezz]

what kind of laser printer

[@sushilgaikwad2845]

from where we can buy this paper at low price??

[@loveordie4]

Thank you!

[@bagwear8689]

Great Video

[@c10kid89]

Can you do banners with this printer?

[@isaacstalzer4935]

Hi! Thanks so much for the video. Looking at the iColor 800. Need something that can print high quaility photos and transfer to a mask. Along with other on demand work on shirts and hoodies. Thoughts?

[@brandsandempires]

Isaac the 800 has the widest color gamut, on the other hand the 600 has the ability to sublimate which wouldn't impede air flow. The photo side of things is trickier if we move into regular apparel, because a big wide open area of art is generally a no-go. The 800 though would look the best color wise for photos. I hope that helps in some way! If you want to talk more about it you can fire off an e-mail to me at [e-mail], we just went live Friday.

[@wolfman2278]

Hi Just want to say thanks very interesting and good points typically around the wash cycle Does this mean that it will only do up to 60 washes before fade or total loss of image im new to this thanks

[@miguelalmanza2992]

How do you do that (negative space)?

[@Ipman6733]

What kind of paper is sheet A and sheet B

[@keithford851]

what's the feel with the laser print oppose to screen print or screen printed transfers? thank you.

[@brandsandempires]

Hey Keith, there are a lot of transfer options. So to narrow the entire world of transfers down to the two I personally use most often; iColor Select and iColor Standard. The select has a matte look and somewhat rubbery feel to it, with negative space it feels comfortable to the touch and doesn't raise any flags with an average buyer. Standard, starts out looking like a shiny sticker and then becomes more matte after the final press, it also has more of a crinkle to it and a papery "on the surface feel". With negative space or halftoning and a final press this calms down enough that the shirts we sell at $24-$28 have a 5 star feedback on Etsy and more importantly - reorders from previous buyers. tl;dr, transferred shirts can range from crinkly patches of annoyance to comfortable and soft. Everything from art, to the type of transfer, to how you apply them is a factor in the final result.

[@inklabdesigns]

Brands & Empires Would you be able to point me to a website where I can check the pricing on these papers? I’m having a tough time for some reason and the price per sheet is a huge deciding factor on whether I should get the printer or not.

[@brandsandempires]

@@inklabdesigns lasertransfersupplies.com Those are the retail prices for the papers. I'll save you a bit of time though. For mid-range media you're looking at about $3.60-$4 a sheet for 11x17/A3.

[@BaconAstronaut]

We have the same setup at our shop. Your transfer prints come out looking amazing! Any way to see the buyers club (gold) price for the 2 step standard transfers to compare to the price we're currently getting from uninet?

[@brandsandempires]

Hey Mike, no there is no way to see the price from outside the club. From a price standpoint no one's Jaw will drop over secret fire sale prices, the margins in this industry just aren't fat and sassy like that. So if you or those reading this have any fear of missing out, it won't revolutionize your margins and you can happily carry on. If you are interested in being a part of and supporting the community anyways; the cost of membership is justifiable for any printer getting a box every month or two, and a clear benefit for larger consumers.

[@simplyme4313]

Hey, can you tell me exactly what printer and toner you used?

[@brandsandempires]

Hey simply, the 800w with the stock toners, and iColor Standard media. The one right there on the homepage: lasertransfersupplies.com/

[@theprofiit8669]

Do these prints have the paper feel?

[@brandsandempires]

The most papery one is standard, select feels smooth and more screenprint like, premium is like a very nice screen print in hand and look. The designs like I ran wouldn't have a papery feel though. They all have stretch additives that give them all some flex and smoothness, but it's the thinness of the media combined with big unbroken designs that will feel off. That said laser doesn't like solid patches of art from a wash fastness standpoint. So really it's another reason not to have big open patches of unbroken art.

[@MrLuvbizwar]

you can tell it does from the look of the logo on his shirt. looks like it feels like straight paper.

[@sketchgeek10]

Can you do a stretch test? I have physical samples that were mailed to me from OKI for their 9541wt and their printed transfers get tons of tiny cracks after a good stretch.

[@sketchgeek10]

And thank you for your hard work on these videos, we all really appreciate it. Crossing my fingers that your Uninet icolor800w transfers stand up to a stretch test without producing cracks as we are trying to decide between going with either the UniNet 800 or the OKI 9541.

[@brandsandempires]

@@sketchgeek10 Swing by the discord I can snap a picture of stretch test for you. I'm pretty sure the 9541 suffers from putting down maximum white toner, so even on equivalent paper it'll crack more readily.

[@brandsandempires]

Yesterday I posted a stretch til it rips picture on youtube and a ton more in Discord. The design holds up under any regular flex and stretch, and even survives acceptably when stretched to permanent deformation. I know the old school transfers cracked like an accordian if you looked at them wrong, this is a whole new generation.

[@Tomashko1010]

Anyway you could "videoify" the feel of these results would be very pleasing. You know the hi end Kornits - they feel good (but this comes at the cost of an average home) - and the regular print an cut transfers - look good but feel bad. Where do these prints fit in the spectrum of feel and wearability? subbed

[@jasonhazlehurst389]

do you find that these prints feel really soft then and stretch well or not? also have you tried using them on sportswear?

[@Wow_jamell]

Does it have more of a screen press feel or a vinyl feel?

[@filipwahlstrom1732]

Do u need a Led laser printer?

[@elpata5544]

En cotton? En algodón?

[@ONEDAYATATIMERESELLER]

Thank You for the updated video. Unfortunately i tried buying the I600 from Uninet and the sales person did not want to sell it to me. Instead he wanted to sell me the newer model. but i only had enough for the I600. I know it was only a $2000 difference in price but that's all the money I had, and i didn't wanna get finance. well the result was he lied and said they were out of stock and I found out they had some. well by then I was buying the OKI 8342 wt printer. I am satisfied with my purchase and rip software. So that brings me to the question I want to ask. Could you do a video on the Rip Software. i see some videos out there but there outdated. I do appreciate your time. and again Thank for the videos. and tell those guys at Uninet to stop lying about there inventory...

[@brandsandempires]

Yikes what a messy situation. I'm glad you're getting good results out of the OKI! I will work on doing some deeper dives into the RIP and other aspects of the printers. I'm not really a power user though so I've got a long way to go before I can flex my teaching skills in ProRIP. I know a guy from Facebook that is a wizard so maybe I'll film him in action one of these day's if he's game.

[@desireprints815]

I have TERRIBLE issues with my printer from Uninet (the iColor 800w), I feel scammed.

[@elnombresiimporta]

Hey, waht about oki's printers?

[@ExposedRoot]

If you do some research you will see damn near every article recommend icolor over oki. Compare side by side. More bang for the buck.

[@plentymooredesigns]

Well put together video. Not too much instruction, though. Would be great if you gave out printer settings, heat press settings, etc. Seems this was done more for ratings. Overall not bad for introduction of white toner printers. Good job!

[@dpd57leonard]

Dude I think your one of the best and informative youtubers I've seen in a long time, but to withhold information like what laser printer you was using just to get people to pay you so not cool, but I still think you and your info is great. Thanks and keep pressing.

[@brandsandempires]

Hey Leonard, thank you for the kind words! I'm not sure what you mean about the withholding of information, I use the iColor 800w. I forget that people are typically given just one video to watch and that I have to repeat important information in every video! Still learning the right way to make videos for sure.

[@dpd57leonard]

@@brandsandempires wow thanks for the reply, and I will become a member, keep up the great work

[@fashiondollverse3918]

My anxiety will definitely kick in every peel lol. Another good video. Thank you!

[@phantomrenegadeful]

Really appreciate your content, I have a question though, do you think using ghost white toner ink be also beneficial to printers who doesn't have enough money to buy an i series printer from uninet?

[@brandsandempires]

Renegade, I just don't have any experience with ghost white toner packages to know whether they're viable or not. However, if you don't have money for a certain level of equipment, it's good to be searching for solutions within your budget rather than jumping into debt. Another option could be transfers, contract printers, and cut vinyl, all depending on the scope of specific jobs you're getting!

[@lorindaspangler]

Good stuff. Loving my i540

[@joeyjayable]

Is it cost effective??

[@SinCityBill]

what printer is this i need it..

[@AlexBabcock-hw9iz]

Looks pretty good but I'd like to see a multi color print on several different colored shirts say black white grey red blue yellow and green. Then I'd like to see them tossed into a drum with some wood blocks rocks bb's bits of rope then washed do this say a total of 10 times. drum wash repeat then show the shirts next to pristine ones that just came out. This would really be a test that I think many would like to see and would be a great plus to this technology if they did well. So if you're willing to stand behind the machine lets see that video.

[@brandsandempires]

Jeez Chris, I'm not selling shirts for people to crawl through a war zone. Besides that sounds like it'd demolish the enamel coating on whatever washer was unfortunate enough to be subjected to that. These shirts go 50-60 washes, when washed inside out, on cold, and tumble dried. This translates into them washing acceptably well when people don't follow those instructions.

[@AlexBabcock-hw9iz]

@@brandsandempires hmm ok a few minutes tumbling around would simulate a days worth of wear on a person. Still would be interested to see what washing would do you say 50 or 60 if done properly. Be a good test showing what the different types of technologies on a T shirt hold up. Oh and no not tumbling them in a washing machine just a drum for several minutes simulating the wear a shirt normally gets through out a day of wearing it.

[@pronhan4433]

May I know what RIP Software did you use printing those designs?

[@2cc325g6v]

Great vid, subscribed. What's the longevity of white toner laser vs somthing like DTG. You said the laser toner is around 60 washes if you can get the settings right, whats that like compared to dtg?

[@brandsandempires]

The mid tier transfers are 60 washes, the premium is rated at 100 and DTG is rated for 50-100 washes. The key here is that all of these wash ratings are for inside out on cold with gentler settings and a tumble dry low heat. When someone puts them into a heavy launder cycle with towels and fries them on high heat, all bets are off. With screen printed shirts the design will be holding the shirt together long after the fabric is dead no matter how it's washed. In my experience though if you can get through the first 15-20 washes with the design not having degraded much, that's 6-12 months of regular rotation in and customers are fine. Wash ratings in the 50+ range just convey that even when these are just washed without much care, they should last long enough to avoid triggering the "this isn't right" feeling that an improperly cured or cheaply made shirt will cause.

[@leviteapparel]

Wow that's cool video

[@stingreen]

where do you get the transfer paper ?

[@brandsandempires]

Through the Brands & Empires buying club of course.

[@briceanderson30]

This is the greatest video ever

[@brandsandempires]

I'm Commander Shepherd and this is my favorite video on KZbin.

[@eddiekhan672]

What printer are u using..

[@MRWILL-fv2cw]

800 most likely. Because those sheets are wide.

[@trini4040]

Great video, i learned a lot from this..thanks

[@toddltomlinson]

Quick question - in your video are you printing on the A4 sized paper or the A3? Most of my designs are 12" wide so shrinking an inch or so to make it fit on an A4 might work - but interested to know which size your examples are.

[@brandsandempires]

Hey Todd, everything I ran for that video was on standard 11x17 paper, expect to get 10.5" out of that sheet. The 800w can run a 12.6"x19" sheet which gives me a solid 12" width. The big media is called Jumbo XL. I've been very happy with the results. Shameless plug: If you ever decide to move in the direction of laser be sure to take a look at the Patreon link in the description, we can get all of our equipment and media for a fair bit off.

[@leonmakest-shirts]

love the video man! Would also love to see you do Presto paper

[@brandsandempires]

Lol I'll work on that Leon, thanks man.

[@romeoarendse5743]

Hi, would like to know if I can get the same result from photographs as to say a vector print? Thanks

[@jordanrayder]

Same!

[@alexmazurek8079]

What setup are you using? Can you drop links to products?

[@TheCrusaderRabbits]

Have you ever watched Dr.Who? There is an episode with the weeping angels. I think Dr.Who needs to bring you along next time.

[@TheMessenger012]

Good content

[@devpac7861]

Bro, this video gonna take off

[@brandsandempires]

So far so good. It's certainly starting fires in some corners of the internet.

[@stingreen]

I just ordered sample prints from Uninet Spain distributor, received and printed them on premium shirts. I'm sorry I lost the shirts for a such scam product. The feeling is pure papery, it even makes a noise while wearing it. I'm shocked this can even be considered to be a competitor to DTG print.

[@charlesrodriguez6350]

Hi love the video I’m planning on buying a i550 , are your graphics rasterized on the pro rip ? They look really nice and bright I just don’t want to spend my money and have dull T-shirt’s can they compete with dtg or screen printing brightness in color ?

[@brandsandempires]

The brightness is there for these prints, most of the heavy lifting I did in photoshop. I strongly suggest jumping into the discord though. There's a lot of support from fellow owners, and our buyer club pricing is a lot better on a 550 than the i550 so there's that lol.