Old World Broke My Heart!

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In this Jay goes over Warhammer: The Old World and debates if he should get into it based on the price! We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday!
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[@EonsOfBattle]

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[@TheSonOfRyan]

You'll never get plastic ushabti if you don't support the game 😅

[@damn5987]

Yea, the US pays more for GW stuff. I got the tomb King box for $179 , including 20% VAT\Tax

[@user-nh5xf7mc3h]

40k

[@freman007]

The Bretonnian box is $515 in New Zealand.

[@TheSonOfRyan]

@@freman007 maybe you should try not having a ridiculously weak currency and a 15% import tariff?

[@afiblacksails23]

Back in the day when I built my tomb kings I used most of my extra heads and arms to make emerging skeletons that looked like they were clawing their way out of the ground just to squeeze out a few more models to pad my lines without any extra money. Only works with skeletons. Zombies and ghouls but it’s a great way to pad armies

[@PyromancerRift]

GW condoned padding the movement trays with dioramas who count as troops too

[@DziaduzLasu]

@@PyromancerRift They literally put article on WH Community how to do this...

[@jrizzo520]

@@DziaduzLasucondoned is the good one

[@DziaduzLasu]

@@jrizzo520 Damn, I'm dumb :)

[@jrizzo520]

@@DziaduzLasu nah you’re good. I had to google it to make sure because I always mix the two up. Have a great week!

[@scottcook6890]

“Should I focus on 40K?” Literally 9 seconds later… “tomb kings is happening this year” we love you Jay. We know the feeling

[@garbagecan755]

The 2000 points thing is actually a community thing. Way back in the day before GW even had suggested point levels and things most tournaments were run between 1750 and 2000 points because it's what the community arbitrarily decided was "a full size army". I actually remember back in the day people getting big mad about the shift from 1750 which 'Ard Boyz had standardized to 2000 because it would "remove the need to choose" lol. I miss being like 14 and playing warhammer like I knew what was up those were the days.

[@TheDysartes]

Originally it was 1500 points, then they started changing unit values and the point value for an army started to creep up.

[@San_Vito]

Yeah, during 4th and 5th edition tournaments were 1500 points. I stopped playing Warhammer during the beginning of 6th but I think that's when they started raising the point limit for tournaments.

[@thecappeningchannel515]

1999 points may be the new format. So, 3 cannons for dwarves, not 6, and 1 steam tank etc,

[@phil8821]

@@San_Vito 6th was the beginning of mass troops to fill out the points. Characters and magic items were limited compared to the earlier 50% of total points worth of characters and only 25% points minimum cost for rank and file models. That meant more $$$ for GW.

[@torkarlsson7672]

I feel like they're gonna make old world so expensive that nobody can afford buying it, and then nuke the setting again because of it.

[@Albinospenguin]

The setting is already nuked, old world is set before the end times

[@SoASeraphim]

they did not expect the demand for old world. sadly that means support will be delayed if it happens at all. Still hopeful though, even with end times looming at the end

[@CaptainFancyCat]

@@SoASeraphim for months the social media managers have been muting people who ask about or comment on Old World. It’s 100% being sabotaged from within. It’s similar to how modern Star Wars staff hate the original trilogy. AoS is their baby and any demand for the old is a personal insult to them.

[@JohnathanJWells]

​@@CaptainFancyCat That makes no sense. Why spend millions of dollars on a project to kill it.

[@therealgreg5653]

​@@JohnathanJWells Its not their money, its the companies money they are wasting, they just need make sure the blame does not fall on them. The 9th edition Box and the Horus Heresy Box both had better bang for your buck and were clearly design pull in players. This seems like quick cash grab of reprinting old models and selling for new model price.

[@mjhsinclair]

There are a lot more 2nd hand and 3rd party options out there than for other games and you can do things like Unit Fillers, which GW themselves have promoted on Warhammer Community, to bulk out your army. I think the way to approach Old World if you're starting from zero and price-sensitive is to build a hybrid of the GW kits you like the most and good proxies. I think a creative Eons of Battle project would be to build an Old World army at a reasonable cost, while still jimmying the right jams.

[@wolftrem4206]

So you missed the pre orders, everything sold out. You only grabbed 1-2 kits. Should really be the beginning of a small series totally agree

[@gekalskip]

Highland Miniatures seems a million times better than GW anyway

[@thepenismightier]

Pro tip. Other companies make Egyptian undead as well as Knights. You could even look into doing Old World at 10mm and use Warmaster STLs.

[@MrBlueSleeves]

Yup. Can even pull out the ED printer

[@JabborWacky]

Yup, kings of war has this already covered. Much better skeletons, but will need to buy appropriate sized bases.

[@FrozenThrog]

Victrix is starting a medieval range. If Shaun wants some knights that won't break your bank, then that is an excellent option. Stick them on the classic sized bases, and you also have figures fit for any other game you can imagine.

[@Swindondruid2]

I use a lot of Victrix figures (for SAGA warbands) and they are excellent sculpts. £30 for 12 knights before you even look for a discount.

[@dscorpion7582]

The main issue for me is that they’re charging quite a bit for models that haven’t aged gracefully. Some like the Tomb Guard have aged fairly well, but that starter set for TK, I can’t spend nearly $300 for 30+ sculpts like that.

[@Scoob609]

$105 AUD for 3 peg knights. GW are like, hey you want the old world so we've brought it back kinda.. but we also brought back our business mentality from back then too. surprise!

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

especially with some of the bretonnian levy cavalry dudes. 5 dudes for 60+ euros. I can get 2 and a half boxes of perry miniature knights for that that give me more customizability. I was actually excited for Old World but I guess I'm sticking with OPR rules and simply modidfying them if I want more of them.

[@deankirkpatrick7658]

@@underarmbowlingincidentof1981 I am just getting the rules and firing up the 3d printer

[@phil8821]

@@underarmbowlingincidentof1981 It's outrageous. I'll keep my third edition army made mostly by Perry miniatures and firefox.

[@regorminiatures8059]

@@Scoob609 brought back? GW always have that mentality

[@rump438]

Not having the skaven in old world is INSANE

[@grimjack9139]

They're going to come back soon enough. In the current lore they just aren't as active.

[@22bodach]

what are u talking about there is no such thing as skaven

[@ArnoVdVelde]

With Skaven being so popular... I can't help but feel a big Skaven reveal for Age of Sigmar has to be around the corner. Makes sense to hit the skaven this year after doing lizard last year. And... Skaven really need and deserve it.

[@paulreid5746]

that plus them recycling so many old models already has it dead on arrival for me

[@rupertjones5197]

They’ll come in time dude, just get through the “core” and if it’s a success they’ll add them, you can still play them just not in gw tournaments

[@punknspunk]

I would just 3d print or buy alternatives for Old World. They're cheaper, better looking, and rn are the only option for some armies (looking at you wood elves). Or just use AoS models because they're up to date (though most of them are "Legends" in the Old World because GW is big dumb).

[@benjaminburton8135]

Ditto. Most of the private sculptors I've bought from do exceptional work. Printing got me into Epic 40k, and even at the scale the prints still look amazing.

[@Albinospenguin]

​@@benjaminburton8135 wich print are you using for epic ? I am really curious

[@benjaminburton8135]

@@Albinospenguin Print as in which printer I use? I have an Anycubic Photon Zero resin printer set to 0.03mm layer height. It's an older model that is outpaced by the Anycubic mono which now retails at the same price, but the price for both is very reasonable (mine ran me $100 on sale). My zero's resolution is currently set to 480px (x) by 854px (y). It works pretty well for epic and super well for Battlemace 42 million if you know what I mean. If you are in the market for a resin printer, the Anycubic mono series is pretty affordable, easy to operate and maintain, and works great with several resin types. I usually use Resione's TH72 flex for epic; it holds good detail and is super durable. I hope this helps!

[@ameliafeyparsons4816]

The price, lack of faction support, lack of many new models, and more have definitely done a pretty good job at killing my excitement.

[@mitcheldaniels5493]

Definitely like the Old Hammer feel of the Old World but I am 100% skipping this game. The hobby is already too pricey. Keep doing what you are doing brother and thank you for all of the great content!

[@ger5956]

No chance in hell am I paying 2024 GW prices for models from 1993 😒

[@11AleZZ]

This

[@oskar6661]

And you don't have to - tons of excellent 3D print (or even plastic) alternatives out there to build armies that'll fit fine in the Old World, etc.

[@k9games721]

the money has killed any further interest in GW

[@kebertxela7819]

The 2024 prices for Old World models are pretty much exactly the same as the prices from 1993 if you adjust for inflation. Not taking a side, just saying.

[@11AleZZ]

@@kebertxela7819 yeah but in 1993 the models weren't 30 years old, that's the difference

[@euansmith3699]

I imagine that Jay and Shaun having lunch is like Bond verbally sparring with Blofeld over caviar and vodka.

[@zilpzalpmukkefukk]

I imagine them like they probably sat in the high school cantine :D with lunch boxes and a White Dwarf magazine :D

[@euansmith3699]

😍@@zilpzalpmukkefukk 👍

[@chrisbanks1710]

Who's got the cat on their lap?

[@micharybowski4911]

Black Templars, Mr. Jay? How utterly predictable...

[@euansmith3699]

😆😆😆@@micharybowski4911

[@graefx]

I remember starting out, the Assault on Black Reach or Battle for Skull Pass was $60. If you split that with a friend, cheap brush set and apple barrel paints, you could get rolling for $35. And even back then I got WarmaHordes because it was cheaper. GW has really lost perspective on making toys for kids and kids at heart. In the grand scheme maybe $500 for a full army isn't unreasonable but it feels like we've lost the plot

[@Ghost3210]

I used Mantic models for Warhammer Fantasy after it was killed, I used the same models for Mordheim/Broheim, Kings of War, Kings of War Vanguard, Dungeon Saga, the 9th Age, Frostgrave and all the fantasy One Page Rules game settings... so for Old World I will still use the Mantic versions, as they were made with Warhammer Factions in mind. I currently own Ogres (+Red Goblins) and a lot of Ratkin (Skaven). So investing in some Orcs for a larger Greenskins force would be a grand start. Also Abyssal Dwarves (Chaos Dwarves) always looked very tempting.

[@minihali]

My friend gave me an almost complete box of Battle for skull pass about 4 years ago, and I just got the last few models I was missing for a complete set. What has actually gotten me very excited to paint the set is that you are allowed to "proxy" models in your battlelines with unit fillers, which are basically just a bit of terrain you put into your battleline to bulk it out. Which I'll be all over. You can be damn sure I'll make a small diorama for my slayers when I get the chance to!

[@NoizeViolation]

Mantic's Kings of War (and most other rank and file wargames, afaik) have always let you do these mini-dioramas to help fill out bases. Nothing new.

[@Haroith]

If even Jay tells about the cost... It is really too expensive!

[@cyberash3000]

Nah just use mantic miniatures and Highland models. Like I do. I made an undead army a 3000 + vampire coubts army for about 350 squiddlys double that gor an army half the size I'm doing a dwarf army so far I've got 20xslayers 20 hammerers and 3 war engines 69 quid

[@arkilyd]

@@cyberash3000 Printer goes BRRRR

[@timunderbakke8756]

@@arkilydnot everyone has a place to handle the fumes. The printer is not the universal fix it’s cultists make it out to be

[@DartmoorAR]

Aside from that oddly inexpensive lich Priest.

[@Camikaze7]

@@timunderbakke8756 fume fearmongering is greatly exaggerated, it's reallly not that deep mate, open a window and touch some grass. Calling any mention of 3d printing a cult is funny, it's okay to not always want to buy severely marked up plastic

[@phillipbritton3836]

Seeing those old world mummies was probably the breaking point into starting necrons

[@Fr0stguard]

I was excited for old world tomb kings until they unveiled that they weren't redoing the range to be new modern sculpts for the majority of units.

[@Krishtov830]

Minimal effort from them. So sad, cash grabs for old models and armies that were hard to find. Beastmen and Wood elves to come.

[@mrblorch1342]

​@@Krishtov830😊

[@n.kosters4757]

Lazy bastards

[@SwitchTalkChannel]

It was my understanding that most people wanted the OLD sculpts. That's the whole point of the Old World. What did you want? Just square base gaming system? Just use the fan-made one, or rework Sigmar with square bases/movement trays. You can literally do that yourself in a few months, or if you friend a friend who knows what he's doing. I wanted all the old armies back with old models. Wood Elves, High Elves, Orcs & Goblins, Vampires! They already brought new Tomb Kings back in about 2012 and nobody bought them or cared by this time and late-stage Fantasy rules. But, there are still a fair number of Fantasy players. If you don't care about square base rules or the old models, then why not just play Sigmar? Is it just the Old World lore? You can pretty much homebrew your own lore or Fantasy lore over Sigmar quite easily for your local gaming group, etc. P.S. I really wish the custom Tomb King dice came in the big set. That would almost justify the price. As it stands, it's easily $30-50 too much! (Of course, it's always more money in America compared to England, as well. It's even more money in Aussieland.)

[@gangrenemccluster7680]

Isn't the price one of the biggest things that killed fantasy battles to begin with? Seems like they haven't learned from their mistakes

[@infinitedm5396]

Well making it a specialist game means they don't need to worry about putting too much financial weight behind it. Besides the games aimed squarely at grognards who already have armies. This isn't to get new players as much as to appease old ones.

[@northerner3861]

@@infinitedm5396, but as a grognard... I already own almost everything in the Bretonnian starter box. So the appeasement factor is pretty minimal!

[@Retrosicotte]

Appeasing older players is sure going well when they killed off a full third of some of their most popular factions from the game a day before orders went live, lmao@@infinitedm5396

[@Perkustin]

Something to bear in mind is that in 8th the size of regiments you needed was prohibitively expensive, adjusting for inflation (i.e. using your 2015 Warhammer Purchasing Power Quotient haha), and in some cases without, for example those Tomb Guard were more or less the same price for 20 back in the day and 20 was on the low side in 8th.

[@jamesclarke5331]

​@@infinitedm5396 its not a great financial move, to market something that most people have. They've released it because of the popularity of total war warhammer! A song of Ice and Fire has also done quite well as a rank and flank fantasy game.

[@pagacco]

Old World just seems far too expensive for a bunch of models old enough to drink

[@RavenSaint1]

I remember spending like $400 on my first WH armies. Bretonnia and Undead. Cavalry boxes (8 miniatures each) for both, dragons for both (metal, not plastic), Commanders (metal), and loads of foot soldiers in 2 boxes (about 20 for each army) and it took me a few months to paint them to my standards at the time. After that I got a few space marines, eldar, Necromunda (first came out), a bunch of the snotling collection of shenanigans (siege engine, swarm, and a smash 'm up group with spears and bows for two units, which makes me wish I still had them all.) So many of the Old World look like the old plastics I had back then. I would just paint the miniatures then sell the armies or units I didn't want to keep, to buy more to paint and sell. Now, I just want to paint and I ended up buying the same (or similar) miniatures and amount of paint that I started with nearly 25 years ago when I first walked into a Games Workshop store. Now, Games Workshop wonders why so many miniature gamers are turning to the 3D printing for their armies. I just paid $3000 to restart my old hobby of painting again. This included space marines (Blood Angels and Chaos Combat Patrols) and 2 Sigmar starter boxes. I looked at pricing for 3D printers after I finished getting the boxes and supplies. I kicked myself for the fact I could have cut my costs in half with a quality 3D printer and supplies for starting that up, plus the supplies (paints, tools, and desk top organizer kits) that I had bought. My $3000 could have been $2200 spent and I would have been printing more miniatures than what was in the 4 boxes I had just bought at $200+/- each.

[@leeboy007b]

I pulled the trigger and bought the Brettonian box. I’m in the UK so it’s about $30 dollars cheaper here. Just love the look of ranked up units!

[@laurencepenfold]

I'd like to get an Old World army, but I'm waiting to see what the other factions get in way of an army box.

[@Ghost3210]

Also you may want to look into Mantics Kings of War range... they have some great army boxes with proxy models 😎👍

[@vincentwiddershoven2122]

My advice: check 2th hand onlinegroups. With the upcomming "old world" allot if people are starting to sell there old Warhamner fantasy armys. (I am, lol.)

[@sunnycaljon5319]

Im excited for wood elves

[@darrinmcelroy9941]

Back in MY day, the big ass starter boxes were $60 US.

[@chaseh432]

255$ for ONE starter set?! They're out of their damn minds! That price should include both armies!

[@StiveGuy]

While I'm not particularly interested in The Old World, some of the models look pretty slick.

[@theemissary1313]

I agree, but some of the models look pretty ass...

[@puzzlejinx]

You don't have to buy every single thing GW puts out. I know the FOMO is strong but some of these sculpts are like 20+ years old lmfao

[@sybert1138dzc]

For $240, $120 if you’re a Paetron, you can buy all the files for the OPR Mummified Undead army and print an entire 2000 point army for less than the starter box. GW pricing just blows my mind.

[@alexanderg4824]

Giving the fact that Gw is a company with over 100+ employees and need to make money in order to pay said employees. While on the other hand the stl companies have perhaps at most 20 employees if that. I can see why you need to charge more for models in order to stay a healthy company. The stl files look cool so buy them if you want. Keep in mind you need to buy the printer, resin , ect.

[@sybert1138dzc]

@@alexanderg4824 the cost of a printer, a wash and cure station, resin, and the files mentioned above is still less than the cost of a 2000 point list for any GW game. Warlord, Corvus Belle, Atomic Mass Games, Reaper… all these companies have employees and physical products. GW has licensing deals like Video Games and the Amazon deal to generate even more revenue. If you’ve the money and want to spend it on their stuff then go for it, but don’t apologize for their price gouging.

[@jaysonhuckaby6323]

@@alexanderg4824 Then explain whhy other miniature companies charge a third to half the price of comparative models. Also please explain how they can justify supposed 2024 prices on models with prexisting desigins and injection molds already created from decades ago. Also please explain the cost of said plastic.... which is cents on the dollar ...... let me help you its called being a publicly traded company that needs to appease shareholders. THAT IS WHERE ALL THE MONEY REALLY GOES.

[@TheDelta07sev]

I was so glad you mentioned the lego horse, my first thought when that chariot cam on screen was an old lego Knights set with a carriage pulled by skeleton horses 😂😂

[@shadowslayer7892]

I lost all interest when I saw they weren't actually bringing back all the armies

[@ksrknwht300klls]

I should ask: what about 3rd party? I bet the mantic empire of dust would look alright close to the rest of the tomb kings minis and it would save you some money on those damn skellingtons

[@AlexUCP]

Damn the US prices are nuts... In Europe it's almost 30% less if I'm not mistaking... Damn. Well, Jay, I have a challenge for you : How about 2000pts of old world tomb kings fully 3D printed? 🤣 For real, even counting the resin you can get away with what, 150, 200 bucks for a full 2000 points ? That's something I would totally watch, even as a full multi episode hobby project 🤟

[@makeytgreatagain6256]

Is currency is lower. As to say 300USD is like 270 pounds

[@michaeltunnicliffe4935]

I have been very hostile towards 3D printing in the past. But recently, with GW unable to make enough of certain models, and charging the earth for some of it too, I'm finally ready to admit that 3D printing might be the future after all. I've already turned to several 3rd party companies for cheaper alternatives and bought many 3D printed models. So I agree, I'd rather see Jay try to make a brand new Tomb Kings army using new more modern 3D sculpts and paying like a third if not a quarter of the price. That would be an interesting video.

[@AlexUCP]

@@makeytgreatagain6256 We use euros in my country, not pounds, and 1€ is pretty close to 1 dollar, and for exemple the base box in France cost 230€ for Khemri, which is still a lot for these old models (while being "cheap for GW" for a more than a 1000points box). And that takes into account 20% of taxes, cause you know, France. But once again, the prices in the US are another story 💀

[@AlexUCP]

@@michaeltunnicliffe4935 and there's so much options for some factions, like greenskins and tomb kings for exemple. Especially considering the old skellies, who are a nightmare to clean up and assemble, printing might even be faster with a solid machine, depending on the brand you choose 💀

[@makeytgreatagain6256]

well for once the US gets price gouged.as a PC gamer i have had to witness Nvidia charge Americans 500 dollars for an GPU but upcost it to 1.2k in europe. So at least one company gives them the L @@AlexUCP

[@MarkTayloroutdoors]

Yes to the tomb kings, who doest love a skeleton hoard 😄 I hear you on the cost, and old horses are pretty bad, but they do have nostalgia for me as I'm old enough to remember them the first time around.

[@ronitabick961]

If GW is too expensive and the Tomb Kings are old, why not buy alternative miniatures? Mantic's Kings of War has awesome minis in their Empire of Dust line that would be great replacements for the Tomb Kings

[@Sandrip3926]

those are indeed some good substitutes

[@shadowolfnara4749]

Some of these tomb kings can be found cheaper on resales then nib

[@zome9844]

I highly recommend that jay and other people that want to get into old but don't want to pay GW prices go to Lost Kingdom miniatures because they literally have updated resin tomb kings and other armies!

[@skinniestfatman5641]

those lost kingdom knights are fantastic, fell in love with the Standard bearer and the wing Pegasus models

[@IcarusGames]

I wasn't really too bothered about Old World until the pre order went up and I started seeing it everywhere and I got completely swept up in the hype. I've wanted a Bretonnian army for like 20 years but there's no way I'm paying modern GW prices for sculpts that have been around for longer than I've been in the hobby. It's times like these I'm real glad I own a 3d printer. . .

[@anxiousandworrying1]

don't even need the printer the whole reason brets got squatted is because it's basicaly impossible to to defend the IP of "knight with Authurian special sauce" Fireforge games has most of the range covered

[@oskar6661]

Yeeeep...Highland Miniatures is doing some gorgeous Bretonnian alternatives.

[@sleeplessknight99]

Perry miniatures have some relatively affordable historical minis that can provide adequate proxies.

[@PrimordialNightmare]

aren't the prices more in line with 8th edition / 2015 prices? I mean, still fairly pricey but not necessarily "modern"

[@Miniac]

​@@PrimordialNightmare When I bought WHFB the prices were consistent across all factions. A 20 man unit of plastic infantry was $35 USD. a 10 man unit of pewter elite models was $45. These new prices are a far cry from 2015.

[@timunderbakke8756]

Your experience is what I’ve had every time I’ve said “maybe I can start another 40k army”. And then I said no, never, it’s the armies I have already only. I *might* make an exception for Knights if I’m scooping them up secondhand like I got my only kit for them so far

[@natecar1]

I'd personally rather just buy a MAntic or TTCombat mega army for half the price. Sculpts are of similar quality to these (other then the couple new hero units to be fair).

[@timunderbakke8756]

100% GW modern sculpts are the best in the business, it’s true and it’s part of why I am ok with my 40k pricing (as long as I don’t start a whole new army) BUT…. More recent Mantic sculpts are better than old GW and are super solid. Some of the older mantic is rough (Basilean cavalry) but the new empire of dust or the northern alliance has me craving a fantasy army

[@natecar1]

@@timunderbakke8756 yeah I'm ok with GW prices (or have made my peace with them) since their newer stuff is top tier. But to charge that same premium price for kits that have been around since I was single digits is really pushing it

[@henkrpe3249]

Brettonians are around 6 boxes of ~$35 minis back in the day, and a lord/monster for ~$35. That's about $250 in perhaps mid 2000-s pricing, so the box price isn't too bad. There's just no megadiscount over regular boxes like the recent starter sets.

[@piotrkarp9562]

It is bad. Back in 00 those models were top quality. Now it's 'meh' at best. You literally would buy old crt tv in price of modern plasma 5k cause it was fun to have one back when we'll were kids? It's robbery. It was too expensive when we're kids and now it's just preying on ouers sentiments. Horrid stuff...

[@Jimmy_the_ork]

Old world killed my family

[@kraftyevan]

Though it is the modern day with old sculpts and GW has inexcusable prices most of the time, the new old world boxes are actually some of their best prices in a long time. They are actually in tune with both the Tomb Kings and the Bretonnian Battalion boxes from the 2000s and actually when accounting for inflation it's cheaper to buy those boxes then it would have been to buy the equivalent through the battalions (The outer circle talks about this iirc). The biggest issue is that it is a massive initial investment, but the price for the massive box is surprisingly really good considering it matches the pricing of around mid-2000s GW.

[@gavinjames1145]

I remember spending a tonne of pocket-money (about £90) back in the early-to-mid-'90s to buy _Space Hulk_ , which, adjusted for inflation, would cost between £180-200 in today's money.

[@bosik111]

I think they went with that price because they're pricing it as specialist game, not their flagship products where they would want to get new people into the game. They understand that most of buyers will be old vets who see the game through nostaldia glasses and are fine with lower quality models if they finally get back to old world instead of AoS.

[@kushtaker89]

Event so, paying this kind of "discount price" for 20+ yo models is... shitty

[@staalforsfh]

I think Old World is too hype driven atm. I try to resist the hype train and get more responsible with my hobby budget, and ancient (sometimes downright UGLY) sculpts at these prices... While we have a fantasy game like AoS putting out the best models in the business on a monthly basis? Sorry, I just can't.

[@whiskers1138]

100% adding my voice to the "Use Mantic's Empire of Dust models" suggestions. You can always use WFB heroes.

[@johnmartin7705]

I have a Bretonnian Army from back in the day. I’m not worried about the old plastic because it would be new to me. I stopped playing when those plastics came out. That said, I got the Tomb Kings box (for the rules) and making a new army. TBH, rebasing seems like a larger hurdle.

[@bigfil1981]

I'm tempted but I'd use an army from Mantic instead.

[@oskar6661]

Oathmark is a laughably good deal by comparison, and some of their lines are similar.

[@vectorshaman338]

300 for that box and more than half the spues are marked from 1993. They are on bathsalts at GW. Last box for me was Ashes of Faith. 3d printing everything going foward for both terrain & minis.

[@darthkek1953]

GW are on bathsalts? Wait and see every single one of these boxes sell out.

[@tarscase7653]

Yeah pull the other one mate. I guarantee you don't have a 3d printer and if you do, it creates low quality crap.

[@oggej3747]

Jesus christ! You Americans really got screwed over with those over seas prices huh… I payed 175 for mine…

[@parabot2]

@@tarscase7653 3d Printing is very very good these days , very easy and the quality is excellent ( add the huge price savings and it's a win-win for those who are into 3d printing )

[@CompassionateCoos]

@@tarscase7653 Dude, actually do some research and be amazed at how good resin printers are

[@ulfhazelcreek8108]

You should do what you get joy out of. Your infectious joy is what keeps me watching. And to me, seeing you kitbash together Tombkings out of Necrons and Soulblight or whathave you would be amazing.

[@LalienX]

I actually laughed out loud at the LEGO horses comment 😂

[@mcboshoff6755]

Hey Jay!!!, I have a idea for you, seeing that Space Marine 2 is releasing this year and Henry Cavil is getting a 40k Movie or Series, I think allot of people are going to be tempted to try painting minis, i know you have some guides, but you have grown allot since then, and some top quality Beginners Guide To 40K Mini Painting will help allot, Like the tools needed, most needed paints and so on!!! Love the Vids Keep them up!!

[@finiteenergy7155]

Time to get more into 3D printing 😅

[@SuperMrHiggins]

The lich priest looks like he's flipping me the bird a little bit. - Neato.

[@JumpyLemming22]

I don't like paying 2023 prices for an army that was designed in 2000

[@rupertjones5197]

As someone who missed it first time around and as I’ve lost allot of interest in 40k and never liked AOS I’m very excited for the old world. I’ve been painting up 3d minis and will 100% be purchasing empire minis when they’re released. So refreshing to have the old back! Ngl I think the price of the boxes is good value. It’s ALLOT of minis and you’ll have a full army to play plus the books which are lovely quality too. Some of the minis on their own are expensive. I think you forget sometimes that armies are to be build over months if not years for the casual player/hobbyist. It isn’t our jobs and we get round to it when we have time and some spare cash. 500 dollars isn’t bad for a full army though, like you said the necromancy would be over 250 more plus you’ve already got the books from the starter box

[@jimturner8567]

So glad I live in the UK and pay a lot less for Warhammer. Managed to pre-order the Bretonnia box for £124! Be great to see you paint up some tomb king 👍

[@wardy940]

How the hell did you get like £30 off? I missed out anyway. Spent an hour in a queue, only to find out most of the stuff is sold out.

[@theinternetofrandomthings7796]

Same here, thought it was a pretty good deal at that price.

[@Mrpanzonebontempone]

Please join the old world and defeat the knights of Sean with your tomb kings!

[@bubbus5183]

“It would cost like $500” for a 2000 point army? Fuckin hell what are you smoking calling that a bad deal, a space marine army with combat patrols and value boxes used is a damn expensive cost ($800~) $500 for a 2000 point army seems like a nice return to the days of boarding patrol before the yearly price hikes. Edit: I’d love to see Jay paint tomb kings for the channel it’d be super cool, just feels like he’s having an adverse reaction cause of owning 10,000 points of space marines and even more armies on top of that like clearly spending thousands on armies isn’t the issues it’s just the upfront all at once cost, which is fair in a sense but also I’d argue incorrect given how much more expensive it is to collect without starter boxes like this.

[@DanielKling]

I don't know, I don't think the price is too much compared to what you normally would pay for gw armies. Trying to get your hands on those boxes though, that's the challenge

[@timunderbakke8756]

If you really want a fantasy army, you should look at Kings of War from Mantic Games. They’ve had it out for a while and been the solid fantasy rank+flank alternative. They have Empire of Dust as an alternative Tomb King faction, and it’s costing a lot less. Theres a cool small scale 2p starter set available that’s Empire of Dust versus Ogres…. But plot twist, the ogre are considered neutral so you can play them alongside your own EoD. Mantic also has really good value boxes called “mega armies” which is a huge chunk of points for $150ish. Way better dollar to plastic ratio

[@RyanEdwardsVA]

As Jay himself pointed out some time ago, Mantic really is the big winner when it comes to dollars to plastic. That Empire of Dust mega army pack would indeed be a damn swell way to get a solid start on Tomb Kings, and they look quite nice.

[@chrisborucki7638]

500 bucks is a lot of coin for a wargaming project. I’m planning on picking up the books and then finding non-GW figures to flesh out anything I want.

[@Mosaic117]

The problem with the new old world minis is that tons of digital creators already fill the market for the og warhammer minis

[@Gerod253]

For me, I’m not diving in right away. I’m going to wait for the FOMO to wear off and things settle down somewhat. However, when I do I’ll be taking advantage of unit fillers and kitbashing to get as much of my Bretonnia Army as possible in plastic. This release still has me excited, but the money means it’ll be a slow grow experience that I’ll have to make sure to savor like a fine wine.

[@KneeCapHill]

Be mindfull of the fact that FOMO was the only thing propping up HH and now that the fomos is gone so is the traction for the system. Which means... the fomo might be justified because if people don't buy now GW might realize later that they don't have the means to support yet another game system and will quietly let it wither again

[@Gerod253]

@@KneeCapHill definitely a concern. I agree. Given how things have been selling out, however, I’m not too worried about it I don’t plan on sitting out too long. I’m just tired of fighting the whales and scammers for a single box on launch day like I’ve done for the past few releases for various games/companies I’m interested in.

[@KneeCapHill]

@@Gerod253 gw should really start making-to-order.

[@Gerod253]

@@KneeCapHill agreed. If they did a kickstarter style campaign for some releases, but doing it ‘in house’ then they, and we, could have a much better understanding of demand. Allow people to see how many sets of each have been ordered and how much money has been raised and the hype would blow them out of the water. At least that’s my belief.

[@harrybrass734]

I would love to see some old world content! I much prefer fantasy models over the sci-fi models

[@Jewus19]

the investment in money, space and time to start a new fantasy army is beyond what I am willing to invest personally. I also recently dove into 3d printed 10mm warhammer armies project. for 100€ I get a very nice choice 2000pts army that fits perfectly in any small box, easy to paint, easy to transport and store. The table required is also only half the size. It satisfies all my warhammer fantasy needs without the painful entry.

[@jonathans.9488]

“Is that unreasonable?” and “Is that way out in left field for Gamesworkshop?” are two very different questions.

[@Retrofun69]

Dont surrender to Fomo. You are an influencer bringing up a good point. Make a good financial choice. Be a good example and steer the community towards not being taken advantage of. You having a spine and saying "NO. these prices are unnaceptable, bar none" gives others the courage to make good financial choices as well. If you have a pile of shame, do that.

[@RobbieB2606]

Well said. I've stopped buying recently - the prices are insane and the release schedule is relentless.

[@Silverdragon83X]

The prices are not that high at all in comparison to newer kits and to the old prices of the old kits. The problem is more, that they mainly use old kits, especially the skeleton-based kits have not aged that well. But I love the Bretonia kits, they have aged much better and were extremely rate and expensive to get after AoS began...

[@etiennegarant7545]

I'd pay that price for an army full of the new miniatures, but for kits old enough to vote, full of mold lines, or metal or resin models? I may pass on that one.

[@NoireRequiemXIX]

A necro sphinx paint video we just rock

[@The_belligerant_servo_skull]

the fact that people aren't completely rejecting this whole release show how good GW marketing is and how cucked the customer base has become.

[@mrmaat]

They really are completely captured by GW. Their customer base is happy to pay 5-6x competitive pricing for lower quality sculpts that are almost 30 years old. And GW won’t even release the whole range in plastic. It’s insulting and lazy.

[@Karazu1kun]

It's a really fucked up kinda loop, cuz alot of people were shown GW stuff back when they were kids, so it's got nostalgia factor for them, and that was when GW was basically one of the only really popular companies making good minis. Then you go on and those people grow up and show other people their stuff and talk about the game with friends and make videos and blogs on it, and even though there are other companies making things just as nice, or a bit worse but way cheaper than GW, they don't get any attention since they weren't around to stick into your brain when you were growing up. They weren't there when you would talk to your friends all night about the books and world of warhammer or 40k. So those other companies basically gotta do what they can to survive or just fade away and GW gets away with raising the prices over and over again. And even when you do go looking for other things, or want to see models from other companies built up and painted like you can for almost any GW miniature, you can't find it, and all you get is just more GW videos to draw you back in or push you away. And you can never forget that people literally conflate the miniature wargaming hobby with just warhammer. And add that in with how people want to have the "brand name" cool thing to where they won't want to try out alternatives and risk getting called out in the shops or their lil community and it just makes it worse. GW was around and making the right moves to almost always have been around in peoples minds and just caught lightning in a bottle. And they know they can charge whatever they want and will continue to do so. TLDR: This sucks cuz so much stuff comes down to nostalgia and word of mouth from when you were a kid, or someone in your friend group or family bringing it up. It's a unending cycle that takes alot more effort to break out of, or GW to fuck up insanely badly to break.

[@The_belligerant_servo_skull]

@@Karazu1kun you summed the nostalgia up perfectly, I built GW minis with my dad as a kid and he's since died so returning to the hobby feels like I'm close to him again in a way.. A competitor can't really compete with that. But even with that emotional connection to the brand I'm capable of saying no, this is daylight robbery, enough!

[@Akillesursinne]

Why do you take toy soldiers so seriously? I spend like.. 300$ a year on miniatures, and I preferenser whfb to AOS. So why should I get my panties in a twist? It's luxury items!

[@mrmaat]

@@Akillesursinne Congratulations for being wealthy and willing to pay through the nose for toy soldiers.

[@kosachilles2504]

Nah, I'm playing Frostgrave now

[@timkline162]

In my club, most players would usually just do the first rank or 2 with actual models, and then fill up the rest of the movement trays with empty bases to count as the other troops you need to fill up the unit. Makes it a lot more economical to build up a a full army, and over time you can eventually upgrade those empty bases to real models and your time and budget allows.

[@coureurdesbois6754]

Lots of third party models that look great. Fireforge makes a great line of crusaders. There are lots of generic skeletons to.

[@gyriongyrion4623]

I love EoB, I just personally would say for variety it might be nice to see you guys do some Non Sci Fi to mix it up more. OnePageRules? Kings of War? ASOIAF? Oathmark? Frostgrave?

[@mysteriousstranger5873]

I bought Perry miniatures Agincourt knights to proxy bretonnia with actual historical knights for like a third of the price. It’s 30 ish bucks for 36 models of foot knights and 30 ish for 12 mounted knight (I think?) and I’m going to just 3D print the various other fantasy units that can’t be covered by historical models

[@Nada-Mal]

I've still got two full WFB Armies.(Bretonnian and Lizardmen), so I'll put them on the table and try the new rule set out. I don't really plan on spending much on TOW though, as I have literally ran out of model storage space in my hobby room so my purchasing is on hold until I sell at least one or two old 40k armies.

[@kenupton4084]

I collected Tomb Kings and Orcs and Goblins way back in the day... When metal Grey Knight terminators were new. I dont have mich loce for the game itself but i loved the models and setting. I cant imagine paying modern prices for ancient sets. Dont get me wrong, some models retain value... Sort of. It took me almost 13 years to replace a Red Gobbo from Gorkamorka. I remember when 3rd edition came out I was able to talk a few people into starting the bobby with the phrase "A hundred bucks will get tou enough to play, but you'll need glue abd paint". $25 for 10 Marines with extra parts for sergeant, flamer and missile launcher. $25 for a Rhino. $8 for 2 special weapon marines. $12 for a special character maybe? I also being a naive kid and beliving the plastic Dreadnought would be cheaper than the metal ones. My heart sank at the price of a Landraider.

[@jacobdobrowski3166]

I feel like Old World is just going to make Mantic's fantasy armies a lot more popular. So much cheaper for essentially the same models.

[@wmerriamoandreww]

I feel like Jay is either drinking the GW koolaid or he is just price blind. GW is just dumb expensive. Love you Jay, never change.

[@AlbionOne1]

Love that you have Mars Attacks on the shelf back there

[@itsallgoingtobeok5231]

Get involved! Love to see you paint some fantasy ❤

[@OniSushi]

Okay. So here is my tinfoil hat theory. GW IS SELLING BACKLOG, they don't plan on investing into them much. They will seel what they have, then it will fade into obscurity like so many other games they have released. The pricing is high because they have limited stock. They won't sell the fun armies like skaven, lizardmen, and chaos dwarves because they dont have enough back stock to merit reselling them. This game dies in 1 year. Bet.

[@KamenRiderGreed]

I think Heywoah put it best. "I'm not the target audience."

[@gandalfthegreen8944]

I’m geeked for old world, im in my early 30’s and started playing warhammer fantasy back around 2000, I took a break for my 20’s but by the time I got back in all my old minis were gone, so when I heard old world was coming back I accidentally bought a $150 greens skin army high af, and am quite oleased

[@SoASeraphim]

Those are prices i remember for an army, it was always costly. But for a pick up game you rarely played 2k points fantasy. We will see how much faster the new rules will be. Metal was always soooo expensive... and as you saw 40k is not cheaper if you start from scratch. There is just the advantage that most is already in plastic. I ordered the rulebook and the forces of fantasy to bring back my dwarves and lizardmen. sadly the later will only be legacy but thats enough for FLG play. Too bad GW shafted Hobby shops and all non gw orders will probably be delayed Hoping to see Old World Content from you ;-) thanks for all the great videos

[@Basically_Anybody]

I am so hyped for Old World, and NONE of my friends are. First I broke my wallet, then they broke my heart.

[@Silvertaurus_]

2024 was ment to be your Drukhari year. Make it also "I have resisted!" year ;-) Jumping on some scrimish game team here or there is cool side gig .. but new game, new army - it would be long term commitment.

[@matthewledesma186]

One thing to remember is back in the day a lot of people made unit fillers for infantry. Helped save money and add a nice aesthetic to the unit

[@apocolototh1948]

maaaan, the MCD straw with folds skelleton horses. also, meanwhile the mortis engine is 65€ for 3 banshees, 3 lahmia Vampires, a necromancer, the actual enine you build, and either leftover bits for a shrine or a broken luxury coach terrain

[@deadmilkman292k]

In my area, this game is super popular among two classes of gamer. Old players that already have a huge army, and players that are deep into 3D printing.

[@NateJones10]

I've played warhammer fantasy since 3rd edition, going on 35 years. 2000 points was what organically occurred around 5th to 6th edition. At 8th edition we were playing around 2500-2800 in tournaments. GW was hands off on this stuff back then. They only recently since 40k 8th have been setting more structure. The 2000 point suggestion here is throwback to the oldschool players.

[@_Woody_]

Holy hell. Here in germany, I can get the Box for 160 Euros. Where does this colossal price tag of 250 Dollars come from?!?

[@ja37d-34]

I like those old skellies, it is Warhammer models, not Age of Trash-style. The old feel is important. And I mean actual playable editions like 6th Ed, not later garbage.

[@lrh5206]

Painting chaos marauders as I listen to this, so excited to get these square based boys back on the table :)

[@rykerm4249]

I am going into it with a friend from work. Fantasy was the hobby dragon I was chasing when I was a kid, and seeing the old box arts in my local game store. The pros I personally have with the game outweigh the cons so I am getting into it

[@danroberts007]

The box includes a thick hardcover rule book. The price takes that into account… it’s not $290 for just the models. I agree the Ushabti are very expensive, but to be fair, tin prices have continued to rise and those are big models. I’m not trying to make excuses for GW, they’ll absolutely charge as much as they think they can get away with but imho, it could be worse and honestly, $500 for a full army… in these days, I think that’s pretty good, actually. Also keep in mind you don’t have to buy the entire army all at the same time. If you can’t afford it all in one go, buy the box set for 15% off, assemble and paint all of it and then buy the next chunk. It’ll be less painful on the pocket and you won’t be adding quite so much to the pile of shame all at once. Last thing I’ll say is the value you get per hour spent painting it is actually pretty good… especially if you paint as slowly as I do. Not trying to downplay your thought process; it’s all totally valid… just playing devil’s advocate a little. Freudian slip? Lol. Since there are hundreds of comments already, I doubt you’ll ever see this but what the heck. Typed it anyway. :-)

[@MightyGachiman]

This was known for a year now... Under Magnus' rule the vampire lords, lizardmen, skaven weren't a thing.