Saying Goodbye to Kill Team, Dealing with Disappointment | Models and Memories Weekly #24

[@robertcampbell1170]

The 40k wargaming community has GOT to break this mindset; it's YOUR game! You don't have to conform to the newest rules, codex, etc. You can absolutely continue on with the rules you last enjoyed, you can ABSOLUTELY change lists, etc. to make the game fit what you want to play. It is YOUR GAME, gw does not own you or your free time. To be clear, I appreciate his views, and I agree that KT:2E handles things much better, but many people would be set for optimum enjoyment of this hobby I believe if they took ownership of it.

[@colinbluth5461]

yah, i would like something like a Commander community from MTG for 40k as well

[@KneeCapHill]

Same goes for all the codexes. Theres always a few armies that are torced to play with outdated rules because they release codexes one at a time.over thenspan of 2 years amd by the time the last army gets their updated points/rules the base fane rules change 😑

[@RandomCorvid]

similar to D&D. Sure a lot of people are playing the latest D&D game (5, 5.5?), but you have people out there still playing 4th edition, 3.5, hell some are even playing D&D Advanced. As long as you have people to play with GW can't force you to play the newest rules.

[@Viskovitz]

There's something contagious about how happy this guy is all the time. I love it. xD

[@domoarigato3000]

He's the Bob Ross of model painting

[@cantstraferight]

I like his videos but so many of the thumbnails are clickbait or negative titles to pull people in. The content is great without that.

[@luketfer]

@@cantstraferight Sadly that be the youtube game. a LOT of content creators have pointed out that they need to clickbait in order to get views otherwise the Algorithmn tanks it. It's also why mono-game channels (lets say Minecraft) have trouble branching out when they get bored or viewership starts to drop because their videos on [insert game they've played for years] gets boosted and all other content gets shafted.

[@M1tZk1]

Imagine how sad he might be on the inside 😟

[@kingghidorah1212]

For real. You can really see his love and passion for the hobby. It's so wholesome.

[@kruxigore]

I'd like to encourage everyone to get a copy of the 4th edition core rule book for 40k (2004 print). In the back you'll find the original kill team rules. Try that out and compare to current edition.

[@XYZdude00]

I remember browsing my first rulebook (6th edition) and stumbling across the rules for kill team. My friends and I played a ton of kill team after. Those were good times

[@theanimaster]

Any hints?

[@kruxigore]

@@theanimaster super simple, I think the whole thing was less than 12 pages. It used the codex for unit development. Core rules for game play. There was a skills and experience section for campaign play. 40k in 40 minutes with the easiest rule set to date. Also assaulting through walls!

[@Klotbeck]

It was also in the battle missions book release during 5th or 6th Ed.

[@Cyclobomber]

The Codex Urban combat was a good basis too. I think I have both 3ed and 4ed rulebooks somewhere... In any cases, Grimdark Future Fire Fight, Dreadzone, Vor and Star Breach contain more consistent Kill Team rules all thingsq considered, that and the fan version (Heralds of Ruin IIRC).

[@grantpark9093]

It only took 12 some odd episodes BUT I finally figured out that Jay reading the EOB Complete list of names at the end of episodes reminded me of a substitute teacher doing roll call... and kid's submitting "wacky' names for the sub to read off... can't un-hear it now :)

[@Bluesci2009]

It's sad how true this is. I just started teaching full time this year, but it was always funny when I called kids by the name on the roll only for that not to be what they go by. Had one who's name was William but he went by Johnny and I was very confused 😕

[@soffren]

I'll never forgive you for making me permanently aware of this!

[@angelsoffurtitude]

Regardless of wheter or not your spacemarine killteam was great, it still looks fantastic.

[@broncofun5636]

You: “GW - send me pre-release rules and models so I can promote your product.” Also you: “you can get the rules without paying GW for them from other sources”

[@christopherbroga4700]

Yes fabulous. GW SEND HIM PRODUCT WE LOVE THIS MAN

[@theanimaster]

The fact that GW hasn’t sent EOB a copy means he’s yet to be an official GW shill.

[@christopherbroga4700]

@@theanimaster good point. Tough to remain objective when people start plying you with gifts.

[@AndrewFishman]

@@christopherbroga4700 A legitimate reviewer will give an honest opinion regardless, a legitimate company will honour that opinion as honest review and not penalise the reviewer for making a negative review. That is how it used to work. A shill is an advertiser, not a reviewer and they receive no credibility.

[@lemcrossview5358]

Honestly I've been getting by just fine by painting minis with a 1-gallon ice cream bucket lid as my paint pallet. It's sizable, flat, smooth, edged and easy to wash off.

[@I_dunno_yet]

Whos gonna tell him that the new kill team is actually kill team 3rd edition.

[@wilpuriarts5895]

Yeah, it’s weird that no one remembers. I actually missed the first one and was pissed because I wanted to jump to a small scale 40K. Now I have the actual second edition with four teams for that and will not jump into third.

[@Klotbeck]

Was just thinking the same. It was so much better too with incredibly simple rules. I still pull out old editions to play this from time to time and it's rules are compatible with minimal tampering with most editions. It's almost heresy that people forget the true 1st edition killteam.

[@krinkrin5982]

I still remember it being bundled with the original 40k 4th edition. Just 5 pages of rules, that was all you needed. Select 5 single-wound models from your army, armed like they would be for a regular game. Any combination of units is allowed. Opponent gets a full squad of basic infantry from his army as sentries/guards and a single objective model (2-wound boss for assassination, a token or a piece of terrain). Play on 2x2 ft board. Sentries patrol randomly until they spot the team, after that can act normally.

[@Deus888]

Who cares if it's second or third edition? It's actually 4th edition after 2013, 2016 and 2018 ones

[@yeoboshong]

Yeah I wasn't sure which KT he was referring to for about five minutes. There's also Arena and Armageddon too for small squad games.

[@TheRealAlpharious]

The old wet palate deserves a place on the shelf as a testament to all the models painted and hours of fun had!

[@sadis72]

Love the new kill team, played two games with my buddy tonight and we loved it.

[@grooberun]

I was so nervous I was about to watch another downer-athon for Killteam, but it's really nice and refreshing to hear Jay's excitement!

[@MattMichaliszyn]

Jay is so positive that I knew the title must be misleading

[@michaelthebarbarian5527]

I was in the same boat

[@gir240]

Damn son affected by someone's opinion on whether or not to like somthing

[@grooberun]

@@gir240 I was more talking about my current fatigue with negativity in the hobby, but by all means pop off.

[@8Scientist]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one to think d6 system is restrictive. It REALLY only gives 5 potential outcomes for any event, and with (1/6) chance difference between events. It feels so self limmiting. It also has the weird interaction where a bolter doesn't care if it's shooting at T5, 6 or 7. So thematically shooting at a bike or a Dreadnaught is functionally identical.

[@eberwald4438]

You and Uncle Atom looked at the same Kill Team features and went the opposite direction from each other. Love it!

[@Dracodomin]

One has a KZbin personality based in optimism, the other has one based in Pessimism. Uncle Atom seems to have a good head on his shoulders, but he doesn’t seem to make enough positive content for me to watch him more often.

[@eberwald4438]

@@Dracodomin True, it also could be added to his issues that he had 6-9 kill teams done, that are now unusable. :(

[@Dracodomin]

@@eberwald4438 Yeah true. So did I though. I don't let it get to me much, I just figure out how to alter them to fit the new rules. The new rules are just so much more cohesive and feel much more finished. The only faction I am a little dissapointed in is Space Marines, because they could have done the whole "2 in a fire team, but if you don't have a leader, add 1" thing. That's what house rules are for though.

[@TheVeeBeaT]

The only knock against KT2 is that they haven’t taken full advantage of the roster system, at least yet. The Space Marines being literally 1-dimensional shows this the most.

[@EonsOfBattle]

they are 1 dimensional but I DID not like the alternative, having to scrounge up 1 reaver, 1 scout, 1 intercessor, 1 tactical, 1 vanguard vet, 1 infiltrator, if that is what it means to be dynamic I don't want it. Also, the space marine platform looks interesting by itself in KT2, getting one more activation than most other armies is more interesting than just getting to spam special and heavy weapons.

[@TheVeeBeaT]

@@EonsOfBattle I get the appeal for making list building easy, but it feels like they should have found some way for all factions to be composed of at least 2 fire teams to allow greater diversity. Kind of like they did with Death Guard where you can add a leader to one of the fire teams but only if you're mono-plague marines.

[@Remixersoloman]

@@TheVeeBeaT you get the leader for death guard no matter what. 2 marines and a leader if you take poxwalkers or two 2 man marine teams and you add the leader to one.

[@AndrewAlkema]

You're a good storyteller, Jay. Sometimes I just leave you on in the background if I'm working, I appreciate your positive attitude.

[@NightWolf1982pl]

"Saying Goodbye to Kill Team" = "happy for Kill Team 2"... a little of a clickbait?

[@AndersRamm]

Please somebody explain to me, the benefit of using geometrical shapes to describe the distance a model can move. I find it super frustrating. I understand that there is no such think as a 1 and 2 sides shape. but using a 5 edge shape to describe the number 6 just doesn’t add up😅🙈🤔

[@EonsOfBattle]

yah I will have to try it out in-game to see just how clunky it is, the only thing I can figure is so that the system can work with any language, you don't need to translate moving triangle like you might need to translate moving an inch... just a wild guess.

[@AndersRamm]

@@EonsOfBattle I guesssssssss..... it has something to do with them wanting people to move in increments, and not chop up their movement or going in bends or circles for some reason🤔 But for what reason they introduced this "increment" thing I have no idea of either 😅😅 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGOkZHh6qbKMoMU

[@sitnam9054]

The best explanation I heard was that finding imperial rulers in some metric countries is kinda difficult

[@mikeziter501]

GW is not supporting the community. It is finding influential members of the community and sending them free product so they can get hype and visibility. This may sound shitty (because it is) but it is not community support, its marketing. If you want free stuff you need to appear as a good marketing tool in GW's eyes. If you do get free product it's because you are a useful tool. Still a tool and very much disposable. On a separate note, GW if you are reading this, this is what grimmdark looks like^^

[@House-Atreides]

I still don’t understand why people just don’t play One Page Rules and stop worrying about the BS rule systems coming out of GW? Enough already!

[@Vincent_Brien]

Oh! Didn't know that existed. Thanks for the comment!

[@House-Atreides]

Then stop the whining! GW is playing you all for chumps. Making modes illegal from one edition to the next is evidence enough.

[@nickrogers3111]

For ultra smooth wet pallete paper use a plastic gift or credit card, it also gets rid of the little water bombs you don't notice till you mix paint in them

[@beyond_hope]

Roster issues exist now but they are going to change. Septembers White Dwarf has new rules for Ad Mech which is expected to have new options for rosters. And GW have themselves said that there is a release schedule for new box sets with new models and options. We've got the basic game now and it's playable. It will be improved on, we just have to have patience.

[@Remixersoloman]

Patience & a lot of money. Even if you just get the narrative rule books instead of the whole expansion box when they come out that's an extra $150 dollars in rulebooks just this year, and if you're buying said books just for the new teams and no narrative gameplay that's $150 for just six teams. That doesn't even consider the white dwarf ones, a copy of that is 9-10 each. Very shitty of gw to drop a $50 typo-ridden paperback compendium with lackluster teams and then model the whole game on $200 expansion sets.

[@mwick8307]

I just read through the rules yesterday and I love the core rules (even though cover rules are really confusing at first. But what I really love are the rules for the models in the box! They give the game a lot of depth and make the factions very different. I hope GW will bring more standalone killteams like that

[@Ralndrath]

The Emperor betrayed me! I prayed to him so much that GW would call it Kill Team 2: Electric Boogaloo! Whaaaa!

[@harrywagstaff6331]

I really did not enjoy the previous Kill Team - the 40k combat system doesn't really make sense in a skirmish environment IMO, and it removed both of the things that I actually think 40k does really well: scale and variety. I'd be interested to try the new kill team, but probably only once they've fleshed out a few more factions to make the list building a bit more interesting. One thing that Kill team 1 did do incredibly well was value - the rule book was cheap, the box set was great value, the kill teams came with terrain which was great, the terrain boxes were great value, etc. Kill Team Octarius is waaaay more expensive than the previous box set and this will presumably continue going forward.

[@hotdog4260]

Kill Team 2 is pretty great value when you consider many fire teams are one box purchases. Compared to the previous edition where you would need a bunch of figures from different boxes - often more if you wanted multiple special weapons.

[@jacobbronsky464]

I like the concept of "games workshop cheap".

[@Mistwalker801]

So I have to admit I’m not a fan of 40K, mostly cuz of the insane money sink you have to commit to just to have a relevant army as well as overly complicated rules (ironically enough I love Blood Bowl). As much as I was interested in trying out Kill Team cuz it was a smaller scale and what I thought would be more affordable, the Meta demanded I have to spend so much money to buy multiple army boxes just to make a relevant team otherwise I’d have no chance in Hell. With that said, I’m actually planning to grab Octarius and try out the new Kill Team, I like how the rules are completely changed to be more streamlined and it seems to be quicker sessions. Although I frowned on the fact that the faction/teams lists are in a separate book cuz that’s an extra 50 bones I have to spend on top of Octarius, I Ike the fact that the teams are preset because like you said, you can get a ready kill team right out of the box. Also I think the preset teams in the Compendium will balance the Meta so it doesn’t end up being like a handful of Kill Team configurations becoming the only relevant OP choices and everything else is hot garbage.

[@EonsOfBattle]

you didn't hear this from me but all the compendium information can be found on the free app battle scribe

[@Ryuondo]

I am going to wait before even thinking of jumping in. I'm not about to spend 100USD on books, one of which, the compendium, massively limits what I can use. Since it is mostly a limited version of Warcry, I will stick to Warcry until more named Killteam boxes get released. Since those will likely be the units with special rules that feel like real kill teams.

[@gaborboth3602]

Pretty shitty of them to intentionally make the current lineup all bland. Warcry deals with this much better as well.

[@jaiar12]

If you do get into kill teal all the info in the compendium will likely be on battlescribe- it seems like a massive waste of money on its own. Kill team overall looks very exciting though!

[@PhantomJavelin]

@@gaborboth3602 It's a new edition; the models are by and large the same as what the old edition had on release, before Elites and Commanders, but keeping in new factions like Custodes or Daemons. I'd expect the other models to get slowly phased in with expansions again.

[@vectorshaman338]

Just got the day off. Finish building the last 2 ork kommandos or get the krieg off the sprues. Or dumping another 6 to 8 hours of painting into the adult red dragon. So many projects.

[@robert2pkt0]

Minute 9:30 - GW picks a box from storage to send 🧐 Minute 15:00 - that box is absolutely back in the shelf 🤣

[@duyknguyen]

To be fair, it's our game in the end. We can just play with same models (points building roster) and use new stats/rules to enjoy our game or customize it however we like :) Just hope they will upgrade compendium faction in the near future. Great video, man!!!!

[@EonsOfBattle]

very true, we could use pennies and nickles if we wanted

[@darrellslover6834]

here is a great way to play 40k in skirmish ,.... you have 15 power to spend and you have to take a core troop choice first then after that if you have any power level left over just pick an elite or fast attack choice ,,, you cannot take a hq or a heavy support , its alot of fun

[@EonsOfBattle]

that does sound really good!

[@davidhutchison5415]

I love your videos brother. The positivity and excitement is great.

[@robertsvallin3500]

GW has an easy fix to the whole $50 index issue. Just release the index as a free pdf download. That would bring the price way down and mute a lot of the criticism. I think it is a good move to separate units from the rules since that allow them to do updates without changing the rules. That is especially true if the index was free and managed continuously depending on how competitive gaming evolves over time.

[@EonsOfBattle]

I agree

[@pigzy9807]

I have been playing allot of the new kill team. I have to say, it is super great. Loving it. I have no encountered anyone who has played it and has a negative opinion. On people who have an old kill team they can no longer use. Each model can still be fielded, but just not in the combination. This is not much different to a change in edition of 40k. Getting into the new version is far easier than before. Every kill team can be built from 1-2 boxes of troops, 90% of load outs are useful. Previously if you wanted a team that wasn't dog shit, you would have to get like 5 boxes or find singles somehow. On the rule prices, I agree it is frustrating, and we are already getting additional rule from white dwarf. So that is painful... but yes... other options exist

[@GFNGaming]

I had the same feelings about KT1, so glad the morale phase went - just killed a game when an ork team broke or got a bunch of model shaken, players just sitting around. Played first game of KT2 last weekend and really enjoyed it, went back to the rules a few times for line of sight clarification but it feels like its own game now :)

[@lazerhosen]

I like how everyone (including GW?) is calling it Kill Team 1 and 2, when Kill Team rules got their start in the 4th ed big black... so technically we're up to Kill Team 3.0.

[@GFNGaming]

@@lazerhosen if you're counting the supplement in 4th bighammer then we'd be on 4th edition. 4th ed big hammer in 2004, 2016, 2018 and 2021.

[@lazerhosen]

@@GFNGaming Thanks. I missed a few rulebooks between 4th and 8th ed. I haven't even read 9th, but understand most of the rules because of batreps lol

[@walkerawhite4698]

I hate how moot older teams are in the new rules, but I'm sure that'll change as new releases come out (that are applicable to older fireteams). I liked the variety of the older version, but I appreciate that this going to change and my current biggest gripe is $100 for two quite thin books... trying to be excited because its something that looks fun to play.

[@LordShaper]

I've came back to GW through Killteam and was so glad to be here for the start of 2... I now have a Heretic/Space Marine crew which can be used for both side being Fallen, Plans for Ork Kommandos and Tau...

[@GrenadeMessiah]

“HhhhOooOooWWww?!?” Gonna score that one a 8.8 - pretty solid questioning Jay👍

[@printandplaygamer7134]

I think the key to remember is that the Kill Team Compendium is place-holder rules for all the factions that don't have dedicated Kill Team boxes, models and rules yet. You may find that your old Space Marine Kill Team becomes viable, or at least parts of it do, when the "real" Space Marine Kill Team models and rules come out in a few months. It's pretty clear that the game is intended to be played with purpose-built models, like Warcry was at first release. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that they didn't have another 2 to 4 faction boxes lined up to launch within a few weeks of the starter set, the way they did with Warcry, *before* they started rolling in models from existing factions in the larger game. That being said, if you want to get that great-looking old Kill Team on the table, look at Star Breach or GrimDark Future: Firefights. Both of those games are excellent skirmish rule sets written to be played using Warhammer models (and others, such as Star Wars Legion). I'm pretty sure that your team could be fielded WYSIWYG in either of those games, perhaps with a couple more models to fill out the roster.

[@boredcryptek5513]

The roster system works really well in my mind in Malifaux. Models are just a straight cost, no loadouts. Then left over soulstones can be used by you for other purposes similarish to command points. So you don't have to try and get right up to the limit. Having a few extra soulstones is a good thing.

[@ryankrankowski7777]

It’s a fantastic game.

[@NeonKnight83]

I like buying excessive things like the Red Grass Games wet palette to spite cheapskates like Jay

[@MrNickatron]

My new favourite hobby channel! Great stuff Jay!!

[@Adamskitheshirtless1]

The Previous killteam had the Rogue Trader box, which had a rogue trader and crew vs Nurgle mutants and insects, which is what you are talking about with "they should bring in stuff they dont have a real reason to make"

[@DerSisch]

Ask a Craftworld Kill team player how he feels that he can't field his destinct Aspect Warrior team and has to use Guardians now... mmh... Your not wrong though, but the new one is also far away from perfect. Like, weapons don't feel that deadly anymore, you are highly restricted in what you can field and stuff like that.

[@kyleraszman7543]

Having just played my first few rounds of kill-team last week. And seeing the mess that is the new one coming out. I think I and my group will be sticking with the "old" one. Since non of us wants or cares to wait X amount of time just so we can get proper rules for each of our factions we play. And don't get me starting on that "stop gap" of theirs. The whole reason we enjoy kill-team is due to we can make our own personal squad of whatever we want or have of that faction. Are some teams better? Yes. Yet that does not stop us from coming up with crazy ideas to counter them and such. Long story short: New one seems meh, sticking with the "old" one and having fun with it.

[@beemo1579]

Thanks for the memories buddy. Kill team 2 is very exciting. Looking forward to it!

[@kirbgameing]

Story from 2 weeks ago: GUN Story from this week: plàtë :)

I love how we always see that blood bowl box in the back. Isnt it the best game ever??

[@matthewbull3688]

Forget d8 and d10... I'm not a fan of the shape. d12 however... baby... that's where it's at!

[@sotbs2641]

d12s never get enough love

[@Vorpal_Wit]

Yes! I am not alone!

[@Nateb121]

I played my first game of new kill team (having never played kill team before and a handful of 40k) with my girlfriend and we had a blast. She has a hard time with semi-complicated rules and has never played tabletop games before, and after the first turn and definitely by the 2nd turn we each had a good understanding of the core rules while playing the open play mission. She really enjoyed it and is looking forward to another game. I really enjoyed it and kept thinking about the game afterwards. Give it a shot people!

[@gogotrololo]

EOB: Hey GW, you should totally support me Also EOB: You can totally pirate GW books lol

[@bretts2356]

I am glad that you have finally seen the truth of the Masterson's Wet Palette.

[@noops9220]

Man I wish they released kill team dreadnoughts instead!

[@ForTheOmnissiah]

Your complaints at the beginning really hit the nail on the head for me with Kill Team 1. I like the idea, but man I really don't want to put THAT much thought into a game I'm trying to have for fun. I'm not tryna sweat playing Warhammer, I want to put some badass warriors on the table and kill eachother, not crunch numbers and have to overthink every last possible interaction. Some complain at the simplification of Kill Team 2, but I think they did a good thing personally. The game feels right now. I build my Kill Team prior to combat, I have my strategy in place prior to even knowing my opponent, and we get started playing in a few short minutes.

[@IOnlyWantToWatchIt]

When they think your up early for work, but your really up for the How?!

[@thomas_st]

Jay, do you think it's realistic they will create Kill Team Boxes with more varied models, like that Ork Commando or DKoK Veterans, and rules come later with them, and this compendium is only an interim solution?

[@EonsOfBattle]

Yes and no, it's basically a certainty that GW will release a special kill team box for every faction but I don't think they will replace the index option, it will just be another option. the Veteran guardsman didn't replace the guardsman in the compendium and the ork commandos didn't replace the greenskins so I think it will all exist side by side.

[@USALibertarian]

I can't even understand what to do to play it. You need a box plus another book??? I just can't get into GW. It's like really really really wanting a dog but I go to the shelter and every dog bites me. I get a dog home and though he keeps biting me I love him. Then the shelter calls and tells me it's time to get a new dog and turn in my old dog.

[@JayAndNightASMR]

I wonder if that's how they bring back squats, as a little kill team box.

[@nebelwanderer4974]

That would be so awesome! We know that the Squats are still around, Forge World has a Squat-Bounty Hunter and an Ammo-Squat for Necromunda, but there can never be enough Squats in the Galaxy!

[@Foxy_Fella]

Oh hey didn't expect to see you here, although you do have themed vids. Love the vids

[@Beedji]

EOB : "It's completely unfieldable" GW : "Ho no.... Guess you'll have to buy more models... What a shame..."

[@BielefeldHobbit]

I feel almost the same about the Command Roster! I was like "F**k yeah, just like Xcom!" - but after i had my first 20 Guardsmen Roster and these wild pts for single units i quickly came back to "One Team fits all" instead ofd doing the pts-calculation over and over and over...

[@flickgeek830]

I bought a used copy of the previous edition of Killteam (2018) and intent to learn and play that instead of the new one.

[@xthetenth]

I really like the make a kill team out of a box point. That's a great point. One thing I'd actually love, though it might be bad for GW's margins in the long run, is some kill team boxes that serve both to give flexible options for a really customizable kill team and also to let players with big armies buy alternate sculpts for units with a bunch of choices so they don't have to buy two squads just to have two different special weapons or play around with losing magnetized options.

[@blank557]

It seems--And I have never played Kill Team--one of the problems is trying to buff the teams on each side is more important that tactics. If its not already an option, how about a small elite commando team go up against a vanilla but numerically larger opponent, whose starts out small with just sentries, but whose forces over time are reinforced once combat begins? Or re-create ambushes, patrols to gather intel or prisoners with limited buffs and special weapons? I just think that 40K ignores the narrative of the average grunt fighting to win, and pushes too much the epic mano to mano battles of demi-god characters.

[@jhavent1]

If you think Space Marines were bad in KT1, you never played with Chaos Space Marines..... KT2 so far has felt very good in terms of trying to balance out all factions so that they're roughly on a level field. A bit more variety in some teams in terms of different units would be nice, but I imagine it'll be drip fed into the game. As someone who enjoyed the Kill Team Elites expansion, I'm actually hoping GW hold off on expanding that way in KT2 until baseline teams get a bit more variety - which they are planning to do (AdMech team in the latest GW)

[@Slenkamure]

downside of the new kill team is that they have taken the majority of the flavor out to be reinserted later with new models sold in an exclusive kill team box. I mean look at space marines you went from being able to tailor your squad to what you needed now it is oh you want an assault intercessor? ok you get a sgt and 4 others with no options

[@EonsOfBattle]

I agree but I also disagree, there is some flavor missing but I don't think it was any good before. Taking advantage of the free Sargent system by Feilding 1 intercessor, 1 tactical marine, 1 scout, 1 reiver, 1 vanguard veteran and 1 infiltrator, was a bummer and didn't make for a unique kill team because every single one (except the scout) was a two wound toughness 4 dude. Now you might only have options on the Sargent and maybe a gunner but a space marine is actually unique compared to other units, not just one pip of strength better but double the number of wounds compared to a base human, and with an extra activation to really show how much extra a space marine are.

[@Slenkamure]

@@EonsOfBattle original was a great idea just not the best execution and, this new version seems to be pretty solid overall ruleswise, what i was annoyed by is that currently only the two teams that came with octarius box have rules for specializations the baseline stats are all good in my opinion just it is pretty obvious they will be rolling out kill team boxes before long to get the rules for them. the Compendium was a total ripoff and that basic information in it should have just been in the core book

[@peterlavelle3261]

don't forget Deathwatch have a GREAT Kill Team Cassius set!!! 11 models with serious variety all playable in 40K as 2 HQ models and a squad (or individual additions to termies/bikes/etc)

[@rmkarros]

even the basic death watch kill team box was a great way to get into the game and created a fun list.

[@michaelutt4035]

With the tactical marines, they ended up getting the 2 wounds like how they did in normal 40k so they became better. Plus the company veterans were tactical marines but everyone could have cool weapons. I thought about building a kill team of mostly company veterans and and a termie for the leader specialist. But I haven't even played a game of kill team despite owning the rule book for almost 2 years at this point. Most people I know aren't really into 40k.

[@CrudeConduct666]

Well I had the same problem so I legit just built multiple armies and talked my friends into playing. Before I knew it two built their own armies and one just keeps adding to my Ad Mec army so he can use it. (He just likes my Knight Castellan xD)

[@grupa2119]

Try Bushido, man. In my notion it is the best skirmish game. The mechanics are great (mechanical LoS, static charge and run distance, simple resolution of models being higher, positioning matters, activation tokens and so on), rules are cohesive (because there's one set of model traits, which are distributed among characters in various combinations, so really no rules contradiction here), randomness is minimal, only initiative and fighting/shooting require dice rolls. And even then, melee attacks are tactical, because you have to invest some dice in attack, some in defence, while melee rolls are resolved as opposed tests, so it adds to interaction between players

[@petrowegynyolc7108]

If you did not try Deadzone 2, REALLY suggest you to give it a go - even if only with your 40k figures. It's everything KT1 wanted to be but never managed to achieve.

[@Kincoran]

Is that a Green Bay Packers-themed Kill Team?! :D

[@EonsOfBattle]

go pat go!

[@andyly6651]

Out of all the box sets, the octarius would have to be my fav, it literally is two factions i wanted to start!

[@KabinMiniatures]

28:40 I laughed out loud a bit, and then I felt a bit ashamed of myself...

[@theanimaster]

I just played my first game of KT2.0 using my converted SM’s and DG’s - I FINALLY won with SpaceMarines!! The dynamic is just so much better! Ok a bit of a crapshoot too coz we were playing Open and we ended the game before the first turning point was over (playing assassinate the leader) … but it was awesome seeing how much less OP Disgusting Resilience is - damn rolling 16 dice for disgusting resilience is something (and by the way the new KillTeam dice that GW sells separately are “sort of” good - maybe??? - coz I feel now instead of rolling all low values they consistently roll higher ones).

[@RotGolem]

I just realized that in the new ruleset, you have literally no reason to win missions in Narrative games. Just score VP in TacOps to complete SpecOps, or mission objectives to get more experience for you soldiers (again, no need to win the game), and you're golden. Zero backlash in losing too. You just kill, do stuff, collect loot, pimp your team. No campaign endgame to look forward to. No roadbumps either. Your army, your whole faction achieves... nothing. And that's without any consideration for the rules themselves (the whole LoS/cover section is unexplainable).

[@glenndean6]

I avoided KT1 *because* it was baby-40k (not a 40k player, no interest in the archaic mechanics or massive model count). KT2 I think has great mechanics ... but since the models in the intro box don't interest me, the cost of entry for the rules (at $100 MSRP for the core book and compendium) is keeping me out. It's just too much to get started. So I'm buying the Barnes & Noble Warhammer: Fireteam release instead, which looks like a great Kill Team-lite, and for less than $50 I get two kill teams plus cards for four more and pretty decent mechanics. Hex board is a plus ... I really wish GW would do 40k Underworlds.

[@danroberts007]

Consider playing Grimdark Future: Firefight. Simpler, faster, waaaay cheaper with revisions to the army lists going on fairly continuously to improve balance. Your KT1 space marines will be playable. They won't try to take every penny from you either. Or try Starbreach, which is also super-cool!

[@godkingzan9114]

This. Grimdark Future is a wonderful game, can be super cheap, can use all your pre-existing models, and is lots of fun.

[@nutsgul]

There is only one thin that is disapointing too me. That is that you can only use one fireteam for spacemarines. Wenn you look at the pictures in the rulebook, the spacemarines allways use two fireteams. But you can't do it in the game.

[@jeremyherndon2974]

I don't know why people think this is Kill team 2 it's not really the second version of Kill Team. There has been versions of Kill team since Warhammer 40K 4th Edition came out. The basic rules for 4th edition Kill Team stayed the same up though 6th Edition 40K, then in 7th Edition they launched the Kill Team Black Box which had Tau vs Space Marines as the two factions and gave us our first Kill Team rules that were not exactly like the core rules from 40K, then 8th Edition had the GSC vs AdMech box that everyone references as KT1 for some reason which saw quiet a few releases but never really did it for me. I think they should of stayed closer to what they had done with Shadow War Armageddon and expanded upon that. Over all every version of KT had been different and unique I will probably play eventually but not till more KT boxes come out for factions I care a bit more about.

[@wight1984]

Moving to a D10 or even D20 system seems like an east win even in bigger games... it allows for more differentiation between units without adding rules. I can't imagine getting back into GW games in a big way... but I still have fond memories of Necromunda and Blood Bowl. Kill Team is the sort of thing that I'd be tempted for, but I'd expect to see a bit more of that special rules and individualisation that has would bog down a bigger scale game. Basically, a ruleset that would make playing game with only a vanilla Tactical Squad interesting.

[@dangerssr6025]

I may not have a significant other to wake up too, at least I got EON'S OF BATTLE

[@burroc5536]

The fact you were painting with a wet palette for so long is awesome. I just figured it out about three years ago. And yes it was a Red Grasse games Kickstarter. I thought it was revolutionary at the time and it’s definitely a must need if you’re into painting minis.

[@prizrak69]

At least you can play them as a proxy fire tactical firstborn SM team)

[@CherudexGaming]

6:15 you can do that """fast""" with an excel file: prepare a file with every member with their equipment in single blocks in the paper, then copy/paste in the Rooster sheet (another excel page), having a summation column

[@shamuslockey]

I played kill team like a 200 point 40k game and had fun

[@fraterkaos7988]

Im K.T 2.0 you only have two factions you can play with full rules, because the compendium is just a shitty excuses of a "kill team codex" so we have to Wait a few months to get the full Rules and specialitys to other factions

[@afireinsidebrad]

Not to mention they have removed elites and commanders again, which we all know will get patched in with a later expansion, and the compendium is a separate purchase even if you buy the box set which seriously sucks

[@fraterkaos7988]

@@afireinsidebrad Yeah, totally fucked up!

[@MSnell]

The irony of the RGR palette being overpriced is that it's not even as good as the Mastersons. The included paper is ass and you're better off sticking normal parchment paper in there.

[@MarcosGarcia-et1qu]

someday we will look back from Kill team 8 at the original kill team and be grateful it didnt completely die lol

[@event.cruises]

Now hold on...a Kill Team mission with a single tank with Kill Team scaled durability would be interesting lol. Infantry support for the tank and the tank as part of the objective.

[@EonsOfBattle]

that would be sweet!

[@DiamondMinerDJC00]

Literally the only thing I miss from KT1 (rules-wise) is the point buy system. I understand why the fireteam system is in place in KT2, and I agree that it works a good bit better than KT1's system did. But there is a part of me that hopes we'll get an official expansion/optional rules book that adds in a point buy system for KT2, a-la the fanmade Kill Team 2021: Reassembled.

[@jomonkey2758]

As someone who JUST made a kill team 1 ork army (heavily kitbashed to make digganob) I was super disappointed that my first kill team ever was immediately illegal

[@Gumlass1]

Pariah Nexus was a cynical release. The compendium for Kill Team 2021 is also pretty cynical. $80 AUD for "get you by" army lists, one or more of which will become obsolete every 3 months :(

[@EonsOfBattle]

you didn't hear it from me but the free app battle scribe has all the information from the indexes

[@effindave6909]

That 50$ index is just a placeholder anyways. If you look at the rules for the new orks and guard in the box set, they are miles ahead of every other faction in the compendium. So GW is selling you a book that your going to have to replace as soon as they decide to get around to writing the rules for the rest of the armies... surprising no one.

[@rdubayoo]

I have to say I have cold feet about the new edition. For instance, the change to how armor works (or doesn't) in melee is wrong-headed. Yes, someone will try to stab your armor's weakpoints. That shouldn't mean armor is pointless, because why else would a medieval knight wear armor? I also don't like the rigid force rosters. It kinda defeats a large part of why people play games like this.

[@EonsOfBattle]

I think armor is represented in the wounds now, so you don't factor in armor but you do have 12 wounds to chew through,

[@majortom7186]

I'm shocked that you never played with a roster. I don't think I ever played without one. Picking a team was never more than 5 mins at the start of a game.

[@d.w.7203]

THIS

[@HollywoodWargaming]

“a $60 box of Arco Flatulence”

[@demon1103]

Honestly, my only real gripe with the new Kill Team is that we need more fireteams. The fact that I have 1000pts of Necrons but can't make a killteam is nuts. Luckily I'm sure they will add more in time. Hopefully Space Marines will get some more custom teams (not just 5 of the same guys) and Death Guard will get more than 2 options (I get that you get options with weapons..but not the same) .

[@yagsipcc287]

OnePageRules Grimdark Firefight, all rules and army books free over 20 armies, smooth gameplay, easy to learn and very tactical.

[@EonsOfBattle]

a fireteam of Necrons is 10 warriors, so you just need 10 warriors. or 8 immortals, or 8 deathmarks.

[@demon1103]

​@@EonsOfBattle A necron warrior fireteam is actually 5...but you can only have 1 of them. Also it's all fine( have plenty of other armies that can make Killteams if I ever play), just pointing out how it's crazy that someone who has half an army (Indomitus) can't make a single Killteam out of it with 2.0 yet XD.

[@rmkarros]

@@demon1103 deamons are similar, and technicly you need two boxes for guard also to build two fire teams (2 boxes of guard/ scions or a box of guard and a box of scions)

[@EonsOfBattle]

@@demon1103 doesn't indomitus come with 20 Necron warriors? that would make 4 fire teams

[@KelRiever]

I mostly agree but frankly the one devil's advocate is aside from Primaris Marines, which to me have always been a money grab, nobody was ever worried about Space Marines being underpowered. Old Kill Team was one place where, you know, you could play NOT Space Marines and have some advantage. Otherwise yes. I mean new KT has issues like only 2 types of models (totally needs to be fixed) and dumb ruler ideas (what will you do, move hexagon or triangle?! der) but the narrative aspect is the best one.

[@oliverp3545]

Once upon a time disappointment came from 12 year olds realising they can't paint for shit, now its just from weird decisions.

[@Kay_Drechsler]

Glad you like the second edition. Just bought the second edition's books and will hopefully try it very soon. I posses the first edition's rule book for a year now but never had a chance to try it. According to your video it might be better to directly start with the second edition. ^_^

[@theanimaster]

I picked up the Compendium yesterday and today I’ll be receiving my box.. I got a preview at my local GW store and holy cow.. I couldn’t stop beaming from the interaction! I’m excited to get in some games with my kids. No more ridiculous shooting only to have every shot missed or negated when SpaceMarines go up against DeathGuard! Hang onto your old KillTeam models though - when their themed box comes out - you may be able to deploy them again!

[@d.w.7203]

You "may". And that is the whole problem.