Ep. 067 - NEW Hornady Ballistics App Feature - GROUP ANALYSIS

On this episode, Seth is joined by Hornady Ballistician, Jacob Morrow. The guys take an in-depth look at the NEW Group Analysis feature in the Hornady Ballistics App. Group Analysis offers the user an intuitive method of measuring group size, impact offsets, and other group metrics. It can also be used during Find Zero Angle to calculate Impact Height and Impact Windage values within the 4DOF Calculator. We hope you enjoy the show, be sure to download the Hornady Ballistics App via Google Play or Apple App Store!

[@jeffmiller2433]

Add a feature. Overlap. Multiple 5 shot groups could be stacked or overlapped into one measure corrected image.

[@jnichols959]

100% agree. Don't even need the composite group on top of one of the images. Just take all the entered impact markers and lay them all out with a common point of aim. Just a white background or maybe that with an optional grid too. Then you can do the math for us on the composite group since you have all the data from all the individual groups 👌

[@BitsOfEternity]

That would be great - the app would have to resize images, or groups, to be able to overlay them accurately. That can be done - but I wonder how complicated that has to be. On the other hand, why not just have the app do the calculation without the visual overlay? The visual overlay is just for us, the shooters, but if the app lets us select which data we want it to composite, we wouldn't need to see them overlaying each other - we would just need to know the numbers, like the averaged mean radius of four 5 shot groups - and then we could even have it show a little circle around a target center point, with measurement marks, to show a visual representation of what that means, ie, what that dispersion cone would look like. That would be very useful.

[@TheParkingLotGarage]

36:35 - would be a great addition to the app to have the ability to combine groups!

[@BitsOfEternity]

As I mentioned in another comment - it would be great to be able to choose the data/images that we want it to combine, and then give us stats, like the mean radius, and then show us a target circle around a dot (the dot being the aim point that we declared) and that circle would represent the composited average of the mean radii, for example. That would be a great addition (of course, I just bought the app while watching this video, so maybe that's already been added - your comment was from 6 months ago)...

[@rotasaustralis]

Bought it. I've no idea how difficult it would be to program in a target overlay feature but, I do know an overlay feature would be the ducks guts. Excellent stuff.

[@derekseiders3597]

I really enjoy your podcast, I have learned this spring sitting in the tractor planting and listening to your podcast. I really like the passion you guys have. Zero angle is a game changer. 4dof is amazing

[@ShootingAndReloading]

Really appreciate you adding the group analysis function. I've been using it since the app pinged me to say it was available. Results so far are pretty impressive and the measurements are VERY similar to using a digital calliper or Ballistic-X :) One issue and a couple suggestions: Issue - it seems you cannot delete any of the group analyses you create. Suggestion 1 - I'd love to have the ability to measure multiple groups on a single target (at the same time) Suggestion 2 - with suggestion 1 delivered, it would be great to create a composite group - e.g. a 20 shot group size from four 5 shot groups.

[@hornady]

We will look in to these suggestions.

[@ccfdmd]

Yeah, I would also love to see a composite group analysis

[@paullanglois5562]

Just purchased the new addition to the app. Here is a little early feedback. I dont see how to go back in to Edit my saved groups. Also once i put in my impacts, i dont see an undo button to remove what i just put down and I have to restart the whole process. So, an "Undo" feature, and "Edit Saved Groups" feature would be good updates.

[@paulkohler7864]

Great episode. The calculator is getting there. I couple of features that would be great are an equivalent to the sight scale factor in kestrel to adjust for over/under adjustment built into the scope and the ability to enter more than 1 target. Thanks and keep it moving forward.

[@ronws2007]

This is great. I actually have the other group analysis app and this Hornady version is easier to use. And the other is only a group app and it is a little more expensive. With the Hornady version, you can transfer your group data to the calculator within the app and make changes. The other thing I really like is concerning the actual PoA and therefore, the offset distances. After a group is done, you can adjust the turrets to an actual zero. Well done, guys.

[@hornady]

Great to hear!

[@jeffreycurl8892]

Hey Seth unfortunately thanks to you "groups are to small" I started shooting 20 shot groups at 100 yrds to 0. I don't want to 0 at 300 yrds because other factors come into play to affect the 0. Of course no one would ever be able to see the individual bullet holes for 20 shots at 100, so I shoot them on a dot drill target and use a desktop program to create a composite "virtual" group so all the math is calculated for me. It would even be hard to see all the holes on four 5 shot groups then doing the math manually to average. SO... any thoughts on being able to add a virtual group analysis where you could take 20 individual shots on a dot drill target and auto calculate?

[@swinedaddy]

Feature request, ability to delete old groups so I can delete this fake one I drew up while listening to the podcast 😂

[@jdogi1]

Awesome feature! Been using a PC application to do this for years, a massive PITA, especially out in the wilds. Love it! BUT... BUT... why is it showing the group offset (windage and elevation) in inches and not MOA??? I have yet to have a scope with turrets that adjust in inches🤣🤣 It really should show all of them... inches, MOA, an mils. WITHOUT needing to go into Zero Angle

[@jnichols959]

100% agree. It was the first thing I noticed on my first group analysis. Entered it all in the app, realized I could use it to adjust my scope zero, but had to convert inches to mils at my distance. Not hard but you folks could show all the units pretty easily. Love what y'all are doing these days 👊

[@scottshreve3298]

Bought it out on the range two days ago when I saw it in my app.... and already used it to set up my 22GT and 25 SAUM. Incredible feature !!! Great job Hornady :)

[@hornady]

Great to hear!

[@kssgcasper797]

Damn it now I really do need to download and buy this app! Thanks for the overview and explaining the new features, this looks to be better than the Strelock I’ve been using….(and is cheaper that I paid for it a couple years ago before you guys made an app.)

[@w.douglas5475]

thank you for all yall do Hornady !!

[@hornady]

Thank you!

[@nathanbailey9153]

Can you do "composite groups" with Group Analysis. That would be extremely useful.

[@tomlongbow]

I have just used a fired case in the group picture in my other group analysis App as a fixed measurement.

[@tomlongbow]

PS how about an overlay option for several 5 shot groups.

[@garygallard4729]

Got it and it’s as easy to use as you say very cool

[@larky1973]

Good to know that with that new feature you have fixed old bug regarding dope above 1016 hPa pressure :D

[@dieterdolezal8317]

The ballistics App is really good - but it hast some areas that are not usable for international users. For example, you cannot enter own bullets when living in Germany - the decimal delimiter for BC and Diameter in DE is "," - but the app does not accept this. You also cannot switch the numerical keypad! You also have no identification in which unit Bullet diameter or Bullet Weight should be entered. In the Group analysis, there ist no possibility to delete Group records. You cannot edit group records In the Results area, group information is cut off - so you cannot see if information is in Moa or Mrad You also cannot combine multiple groups with different holding points to one analysis. SD-Values are also not possible to calculate. Still - I am pretty impressed by the app, as it is easier to use than BallisticX or SubMoa...

[@beenstork]

I litterally just bought that Group analysis add on in the app right before this video came out. I noticed on the hornady app and just thought that I hadnt noticed it before. Should be really cool, cant wait to try it out. Hopefully the app gets some new powders in the Temp stability section. Please add staball 6.5

[@hornady]

Good call!

[@kasperarvad9781]

Hi Guys, watching this right now. A question, besides the new functionality, have there been any bug fixes in this new release? I found a bug in the app relating to the relationship between altitude and pressure, specifically on high air pressure days and when having the app set to metric measures basicallymaking the app useless. I wrote the your support but never received a reply. Think I managed to find a workaround, but who do I (as a end-user) reports bugs to you so they get fixed? Best regards from Denmark 🇩🇰

[@maddan.]

Put 4DOF on Garmin Watches please.

[@prone_wolf8871]

Can you guys do some more rimfire episodes? And how much impact will using adjustable bases (era tac) on using 4dof? Does 4dof work with rimfire at elr distances? (Up to 750-800 yards)

[@ktmkaratechips]

Two questions: if I don’t have a chronograph or access to one, am I wasting my time trying to calculate zero angle? Then, if I do 4 5-shot groups and the wind value changes between groups, how to I compile the data to make sure I get accurate info? Thanks for your time!

[@andybob9132]

So what's difference between zero-angle in 4dof and atmospheric zero in the ballistic calculator? Im Use your Bc calculator for 22lr for nrl22 absolutely love it.

[@chrysanthosanastasiades9368]

Love your podcasts I was wondering weather you consider air rifle projectiles as air rifles are on the rise and they come in cal.. 177 to. 072 cal..... I would like to see an established company with the know lage and know how to dive into the subject.. Just a thought.. 👍

[@Revtrout]

Great podcast. Just wondering, I have a bunch of Nos 6mm 105 RDF to use before I go back to ELDM 108s. Are the Nos 105’s on your list to put in the 4DOF app?

[@laxwyo1]

I imagine you can find zero angle on multiple days by calculating zero angle each time for those conditions and then averaging them?

[@mikestreet940]

Crashes on uploading a picture and will not save with android Samsung the 4DOF has been working ok and it has all permissions

[@johnt34aus]

Same here. Always crashes on trying to load a picture on Pixel Pro 6. Also when you take a photo cannot save it! Very buggy! Needs to be fixed asap

[@jwschroeder804]

Any chance you would put together a home study package to download and use to teach ourself 4DOF? A canned example with all the data to set up an example favorite with all the possible entries done the correct way. We can then adapt our own rifles and ammo…. Including group analysis. Thanks. Thanks. Been trying different apps, but Hornady’s floating to the top choice.

[@daveknowles3055]

Great podcast, quick question. Once I have my zero angle set will the app automatically adjust for different environmental changes? I am thinking I set my zero angle at 70 degrees and now the temperature has dropped to 30 degrees, and at the same time my elevation has gone up by 1500 yards.

[@kylewmcgregor]

Well done. I see myself abandoning my current calculator as soon as your bullet library grows substantially.

[@DanielReyes-hz1qk]

What calibers or bullets would you want them to add? It would be worth suggesting. Everything I shoot across 4 calibers and 3 brands is already in 4DOF

[@kylewmcgregor]

@@DanielReyes-hz1qk By-in-large I shoot Hornady bullets, but run quite a few Nosler bullets for hunting. I ldownloaded the app and reviewed the list this morning and did not see the following: .30 cal. - (300BLK, .308, 300WM) Nosler BT: 125gr, 150gr, 165gr. Nosler Partition: 150gr, 165gr, 180gr, 200gr. .270 - Nosler Partition: 130gr, 150gr, 160gr

[@DanielReyes-hz1qk]

​@@kylewmcgregor Definitely not many Noslers on there. Hopefully the Hornady team sees this and adds those to the list to be tested. You can always use the 'just BC' side of the app for bullets without 4DOF info, not a huge difference at moderate hunting ranges. Have you come across other radar based apps with Nosler bullets? Only one's I've used are Lapua's and Hornady's

[@ryanharms7515]

Hey Seth, really like the app, but it is way to easy to switch rifles? Is there an option to lock the rifle selection? If not can it added? Thank you

[@samstewart4807]

hi, How relevant is high speed photography looking at how different bullets exiting the barrel?

[@buddyeast1928]

An awesome feature! Almost as cool as Jacobs hairline!

[@sd3gunner]

Please add pictures of drop on multiple reticles like Stelok had

[@constitutionalist4391]

💪

[@RMM--uv7uk]

Can you guys do a real world scenario of showing us how to setup zero Angle and truing up the calculations. Like actually go out into the field and setting it all up. Gives you guys an excuse to go play for a day. 😂

[@hornady]

That's in the works

[@nimrodmar10]

With my Android phone, there are some features in Group Annalisis that aren't working. I'm not able to pick an already existing photo and when I have a group entered onto a picture taken in the app, I'm not able to save or share the group

[@Modine.]

Now why can't Hornday make ball ammo and match rounds for the .45acp!?

[@Kycirion]

That's cool and all, but I'm still waiting on the ability to open the app while off-line. Does no good for mountain hunters if it requires a data connection to function.

[@BRADASSOFFGRIDHOMESTEAD]

Clicking favorites freezes the app. Have to go through the "menu" to get to favorites. please fix! Pixel 4

[@lanceschul]

I paid for the group analysis feature and can’t change “distance to target” from meters to yards in the app. Am I an idiot or is the feature missing? I emailed Hornady days ago and have gotten no response.

[@BRADASSOFFGRIDHOMESTEAD]

Your app matches "shooters calculator" - Why is that? Shouldn't yours be more accurate since it's Radar derived?

[@brentrasmussen2440]

Please add Norma GTX 6.5mm 143gr to the 4DOF library.

[@kennygates1756]

It would be nice if you could get your catalog/reloading app to work more consistently with an Android. I had to e-mail customer service for subsonic load data for the 450 BM cause it did not show in the app. I just tried getting in the app and it says an error has occurred, refreshed, and it started working, closed it and opened again to look at another caliber and got another error.

[@GunsWin]

I tried to use an existing photo. Total disaster. Also, no edit, no delete. Now i have a bunch of garbage. No, reinstalling didn't remove the garbage. Used the app to take a the target pic. No problem.

[@torybaughan3534]

Where do I send or who do I call to send bullets for 4DOF? I called tech support a couple months ago and was told that they don't do that.

[@Irontracks964]

How to change MOA to MILRAD ?

[@tacticalrabbit308]

Do you do cast lead bullets in that app?

[@mikec7545]

Can't save or share

[@MrMillez]

Not able to delete pictures is Messing with my OCD. 😢

[@hornady]

It’s coming!

[@BRADASSOFFGRIDHOMESTEAD]

Just paid for it, and it doesn't work... crashes everytime, how do I get a refund?

[@hornady]

Have you uninstalled and reinstalled?

[@BRADASSOFFGRIDHOMESTEAD]

@@hornady It crashes doing multiple things. I think you guys targeted apple and not android. Apple isn't even allowed in my house.

[@gsh341]

Cool function, but if I want to delete an analysis, I can't. This needs to change.

[@hornady]

That’s coming!

[@gilream]

How can I delete individual group analysis?

[@hornady]

That is being worked on currently.

[@jeffb.3052]

So basically it's Ballistic-X in your app. Um... OK

[@MrBoostin18]

It is a piece of crap. Too difficult to build profiles for rifles. Doesn’t pull weather data from the weather apps on your phone. Strelok all the way

[@DuckersAI]

Please let us delete and edit…