Ep 1 Building custom scow bow cruising yacht with modern junk rig

[@26N80W]

Love the picture of Rosie laminated into the bow. Beautiful thought to have her guiding your way across the sea.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Her bones are in the front of the keel as well. She always wanted to be in the front seat. Would have driven the car if allowed :)

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

....and she's on the sail too.

[@The-Travel-Man]

Very cool scow. If I hit the lottery, I'll have one built for me :)

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

The plug is still ready to be turned into a new hull. You could get Jim Antrim to do anything you liked for the rig and interior. Ask Berkeley Marine Center

[@janisspalvins677]

Thanks for video. Amazing job.

[@georgeh1352]

I want one, very envious.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

If you really want a hull like this (the layout and rig could still be whatever you want) the plug for the hull is sitting in Berkeley, waiting to go. I think a hull could be pulled off in less than three months.

[@Abc-kf4qx]

Love it! I’d like to hear from the builder about the design, very interested in the scow bow. Fair winds!

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Have a listen to the Jim Antrim and Cree Partridge interviews with Ben Shaw on www.reddogyachts.com (scroll down till you see the Great Listening section). They are great interviews.

[@PineappleAdrift]

Beautiful scow bow.

[@dboboc]

Ugly.

[@freebrain287]

Amazing! When we can see it on the water?

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

She's floating now but hasn't sailed yet. Waiting for a replacement battery (electric motor). Have a look at www.reddogyachts.com for recent updates. Working on Ep 2 - the build out inside next.

[@freebrain287]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 thank you very much! I'll be following

[@mckenziekeith7434]

Are the key stats available somewhere? Displacement, sail area to displacement ratio, displacement to length ratio and such?

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

42’ LOA. 40.5’ DWL. Beam 14’. Draft 4’. 20,000lb displacement. Ballast 7500 lbs lead cast. Max sail area 850 sq ft. Figuring out the sail and going better every time out.

[@mckenziekeith7434]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 D/L is 134 and SA/D is 18. I bet she will positively eat up the miles on tradewind passages. Very interesting vessel!

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

@@mckenziekeith7434 so far its eating up the miles. We have a lot of upwind in 20 kts doing 7 in bay chop.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Wse want to use old school spinnaker without pole for dead downwind, or leader kites. But the sail alone seems so easy. No feeling you are going to jibe with wind at 180. Feels solid and boat steers true. And fast. I also can’t wait for the open ocean version of the trials.@@mckenziekeith7434

[@krismatski]

The mirror finish looks splendid, but a few years of priming-sanding-priming-sanding...etc. There must be a better way!

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

The builder did such a great job that it deserved the hours to get that finish. And the painter is a master. I prepped for a week, then pulled his hose and filled the can. Three coats in three hours. Perfect weather. Julio got the mirror thing.

[@paulkube3901]

My! What an interesting concept. Coastal or blue-water?

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Anywhere you want to go. Concept is comfortable tropical living with a lot of light, air and space. Shallow draft to increase the potential anchorage.

[@paulkube3901]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 Thanks for the reply. Sub'd and looking fwd to further episodes

[@junk_rig_81]

Hi Barry and Samantha, may I ask if you are members of (or in touch with) the Junk Rig Association? Thanks, Patrick

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Not in touch but long time watchers and users of the resources there.

[@junk_rig_81]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 Any chance to meet you at the May 2023 junket in "Golfe du Morbihan"? One can dream...! Beautiful achievement and beautiful boat, anyway.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

@@junk_rig_81 no chance we will be anywhere but the South Pacific as nsoonm as possible. We will always be happy to give a tour though, wherever we are

[@Garryck-1]

Interesting boat.. if not my style. I've never understood this fascination with big doghouses and large cockpits. Both are inherently unseaworthy.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

It takes all kinds to figure things out sometimes. Please help me understand why the doghouse is unseaworthy? The windows are all commercial level for fishing or charter with 10mm laminated safety glass and it would take some pretty nasty conditions to threaten them. We have no plans to be much outside of the 20N to 20S band in the Pacific. And most ‘modern’ boats have a virtually open transom now in many cases. Being ‘pooped’ always seemed like an effect of not being able to go fast enough to stay out of the way. When Bernard cut the Joshua loose from the heavy warps in the giant seas of the Southern Ocean, she came alive, he could easily steer her and keep the waves at bay by ‘surfing’, a revelation that changed his tactics from then on. Wen will simply have to live with our decisions now and make due.

[@Garryck-1]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 - *"Please help me understand why the doghouse is unseaworthy?"* Very well.. let's address your points, one at a time. 1. Commercial fishing vessels weather bad conditions by motoring into the waves. This is not a viable heavy weather tactic for a sailing yacht. Doubly so for those who have an electric, rather than diesel engine. Accordingly, said windows are *not* designed to cope with a knockdown.. a situation which is pretty much 'game over' for a commercial fishing vessel. But yacht windows *need* to be able to cope with *multiple* knockdowns, without the integrity of the yacht being compromised. Also, such windows are designed to be fitted into a steel structure, which has considerably less flex than a timber/glass structure. The fatal loss of the yacht 'Essence' off NZ in Oct 2019 was attributed to the large (> 2 sq ft) cabin windows, combined with the cabin flexing, resulting in the windows being 'blown out' when the vessel fell off a 5m wave. (They were running before the waves at the time, incidentally. See point 4 below.) On windows the size of what you have fitted to Rosie G, the force impacting the windows in a knockdown or large wave strike would amount to literal tons of force, *per window.* (There's a reason the portholes on the blue-water boat I intend to build will be limited to 8 inches diameter. I crunched the numbers for 10 inches, and decided I didn't like the answer. (Almost *double* the force compared to 8 inches!)) Such large windows on yachts are recommended to be covered by substantial storm boards. (In fact, as a result of the above loss, Maritime NZ changed their Cat 1 regulations for large windows from requiring storm boards being merely available, to requiring them to be fitted.) If you fitted storm boards to Rosie G, how are you going to be able to see to steer? If you *don't* fit storm boards, and a window is smashed in, now you have a large hole in the boat, that you cannot close up again, letting in tons of water that can fill the entire boat, unimpeded. 2. "the 20N to 20S band in the Pacific." Last time I checked, the storms in that region can be every bit as bad as in higher latitudes, even if they're not so potentially long-lasting. Moreover, we know that climate change is already causing oceanic weather patterns to alter, after having been regular for centuries. We know that weather extremes are already becoming even more extreme, and that the next decade's weather is going to get very "interesting," in quite unpleasant ways. We also know that even if we completely stopped pumping CO₂ & methane into the atmosphere tomorrow, things will continue to worsen for decades to come. We know that the band either side of the equator is going to get a lot hotter. We know that is going to have a drastic effect on the weather it generates. Assuming that the 'milk run' band will continue to be the mild, pleasant place we (mistakenly) think it is now, is wooly-headed thinking at best. 3. The cockpit. Yes, Rosie G's is *kind of* open. However, the big door at the stern appears to restrict water draining considerably. Assuming the door fittings are up to the task of holding in a couple of tons of water (or more?.. I just made a rough guess at the volume it could hold), how long will it take for that slot at the bottom of the door, and the drains (you *do* have cockpit drains as well, I hope?) to empty out a completely full cockpit? If the answer is more than 2 minutes, then you have a serious problem on your hands. 4. Going fast enough to keep the waves at bay. AKA running with the waves, or "surfing". Wow.. there are *so* many problems with this. Moitessier had no idea just how lucky he was to not come to grief with this tactic. Especially since he had no-one to relieve him at the helm. The problem with surfing down waves is that, even though it doesn't feel like it, you are right on the edge of control. Which is to say, right on the edge of being *out of control.* The water is moving *along with* the rudder. Meaning steering authority is *very* limited, almost as if you were becalmed. Except you're 'becalmed' on a runaway freight train. It requires 100% concentration and a light touch, for hours at a time (even assuming you have several helms-people you can trust with the task) And fatigue (both mental and physical) is inevitable. One tiny mistake, one too-long hesitation in correcting, one over-correction, the boat 'trips over' its' keel, and you are suddenly side-on to the wave, coming down ("falling off") the face of the wave. Next thing that happens is a violent roll-over. (With those great big, unprotected doghouse windows taking much of the weight of the boat on them!) See the loss of the 'Essence', referenced above in point 1. Another problem with running is, you're running *with* the storm. Which means you're going to be inside the storm system for a lot longer than you would if you could slow the boat down. Which brings us back to that fatigue/concentration thing. And then there's the other fun thing that running before big waves can result in. Pitch-poling. The bow digs into the bottom of the wave trough, acts as a brake (actually, the effect is more like an instant stop), the bow stops moving forward, the rest of the boat *doesn't* stop moving forward, and the wave you're on both lifts & pushes the stern up and over. How well will the large area of the doghouse roof (relatively weakly supported, due to all those big windows) cope with the entire weight of the boat being slammed down on it, pushed by the force of many tons of water as well? To help visualise it, If you turned Rosie G upside-down and dropped her 20 feet onto concrete, how well do you think the doghouse will cope? Even though it won't be happy, a properly-built, monocoque-hulled yacht can cope with this, because the forces are distributed equally throughout the hull. A big doghouse, on the other hand, not so much. Like I originally said, doghouses are inherently *not* seaworthy. Besides which, there's another factor the running-before-the-waves advocates like to gloss over. Sea room. If the storm is driving you at a lee shore, running isn't an option. If you can't run, then what are you going to do? No thanks.. give me a small cockpit, small windows (with storm covers as well!), a monocoque hull, no doghouse, and a Jordan Series Drogue, any day! I do, however, salute your choice of junk rig. Excellent move, for all the reasons I'm sure you're very aware of!

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

@@Garryck-1 Thank you for your extensive comments, we really appreciate it. This is the path we’ve chosen so we’ll just have to wait and see how it goes. We believe it will be great and as Barry says, everybody gets to do it the way they want. You mentioned you were planning on building a blue water boat….is that happening soon? What a great venture for you. And thanks for the junk rig comment. You are one of few who likes the concept :)

[@Garryck-1]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 - You're very welcome, and I wish you all fair winds and following seas.. I'm sure you'll have a great time! The main thing holding up the start of construction for me, is finding a suitable location to build her. Yes, I'm a big fan of junk rig. My boat will be the 38'6" variant of a Benford Sailing Dory. Basically, a 4'6" longer version of Pete & Annie Hill's junk-rigged schooner, 'Badger'.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

@@Garryck-1 That's exciting! Do you plan on building it yourself or have it built? And a junk rig too?

[@nickbenfell4327]

Scow bow (speed?) Junk rig (inherently slow in speed situations) I just wonder at the conflicting elements of this design.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Speed is relative to what you seek. I’m sure the 20000 lb boat with a shape like this will be easily driven and should go as fast as we need. I’ve always been happy with a 200M day and if in the trades we can get 8kts, which should be easy considering the waterline length, that will do. In my limited experience with the so pacific (no America to NZ and back), it is often lighter than heavier, as was the case with our years in Hawaii, where it mostly blows like stink. I want light air performance and believe the platform puts the sail area up where it does the most good, and have watched while ‘junk’ rigs sailed through the lee of larger Marconi rigs with pointy tops. In my career as a windsurf sail designer, the first thing we did in 1980 was to make the sails have ‘fat heads’ and never looked back. Windsurfing had a ‘wing’ platform 40+ years ago. When racing yachts finally caught on, this made ‘fathead’ sails legit, but the junk was fat head thousands of years ago. And they didn’t have Hydranet, spectra, and carbon fiber. As with all new things, we will see. I’m just as curious as anyone else where this can go. Pay attention to the battens…. They are situated perpendicular to the sail, held with clips, in special pockets. This makes them ten times as stiff and twice as strong than if they were laid flat, something yachts will be doing soon enough. Reduce weight, add stiffness. The price you pay is in having a kind of rib-like thing that may or may not be good for the aero. Laminar flow in reality is mostly a dream, and you won’t get any lift no matter the foil shape, unless you can get a proper angle of attack, so sheeting from the leech sets this up better, early in the tension development of the sail. Nothing like how a conventional rig does. The sail feathers quickly, is balanced on the mast, can be reefed simply by easing the halyard and pulling in the sheet. Right now, it’s still just our plan. The rest remains to be seen.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Months on, 14 times out sailing. Designer and builder on board as well as other experienced people. We have sorted the sail pretty much and have had some interesting results sailing against equivalent modern monohulls in up to 22T. So far the best windward speed in 20-22 was 8.5kt and similar angle. We have sailed for hours upwind along with a norseman 400 (also 20000lb) and been even after many tacks in interesting circumstances. Off the wind, we smoked them. The boat doesn’t heel much, average about ten degrees, because the junk rig delivers the power low, the total rig weight with full sail up is less than 400lb, the beam of 14’ and the scow bow makes the heeled waterlines long and straight, adding more lift potential, and the long perfect foil keel is not heeled away from lateral resistance, and with the dagger board down we draw 8’. I have made a life long career seeking sailing speed. Been involved in going 30 in 1983, 40 in 1986, fifty in the 90’s. Sail design and hands on construction. I am not affected by any comments that are negative. I know what i know, what works, and why. We sail flat, go fast, point high and opinions have no place in my world. It’s always been results only. And we are going to head south soon and find out how ROSIE G surfs in the ocean. I’m looking for 10-12kts in 20-25T. We’ll be sure and let people know if I’m dreaming or not.

[@russellesimonetta9071]

Not beautiful in the classic sense! But very interesting. Much roomier I bet!

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Way roomy. We’ll do a walk through soon

[@DavidPaulNewtonScott]

There is no purpose for a pointy bow. A very nice 'Dutch boat'.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Yes. No one can ever tell me when and who first put the point on. It’s simply an evolution of the bowsprit , which also was a dumb thing (unless you can rock them up to move in tight spaces like Dutch canals). Pointy bows are empty for a reason. No room up there. But they do a good job of scooping up the ocean and putting it on deck

[@SteelDoesMyWill]

Love the build method and scow bow, face palm when anyone puts a Junk Rig on a boat of this caliber. The cult refuses to recognize that, despite the few advantages, the massive disadvantages are why 99.9% of all cruising boats and 100% of all Racing Sailboats do not use this rig.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

Quite frankly, we don’t give a damn what anyone else thinks about our rig. If it works… great. And I’m sure it will work as it has for centuries. Might not be what everyone thinks. Having been a sailmaker and designer and builder of gear that broke numerous WSSR (from breaking 30 to breaking 50) i am used to finding ways to get more from less. The sail is supper light, very trim adjustable, and will be just fine for us, who only want comfort and ease before speed. It will take ten years before boats more universally have scow bows (cause it makes lots of sense in so many ways) and who knows, if this ‘junk’ rig turns a out to work as well as imagined, there may even be many more of those. Paradigm shifts always begin with denial.

[@SteelDoesMyWill]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 you might want to start with not denying over 100 years of R&D plus practical application in the millions of nautical miles that says the Bermuda rig is lighter, faster, safer and less taxing on the crew. If you want to challenge the paradigm with an unstayed rig that actually performs well and doesn't murder your vertical CG you'd have been better off with a wing sail. At least that Rig has a massive amount of current proof of concept.

[@rosiegreddogyachts4135]

@@SteelDoesMyWill 100 years. You said it yourself. I like to think there is something in the thousands of years, something that was dismissed by whatever came along next. I watch people dousing their assyms and don’t imagine my 76 years old self being quite so nimble if necessary. I have many friends who sail lots of ocean miles and they all have some kind of story to go along with that action. As a sailmaker, i saw lots of ‘sudden failures’ of roller furling sails that get less regular inspection than they should and just blow up. I had a very nice 42’ cutter with excellent sails and loved it but still believe this will be easier to manage and give us miles. And why does our total rig weight (full sail up, mast, running rigging that weighs under 400 pounds ‘murder my vertical CG’? My cutter rig was more than double that. If a modern rig boat is faster, i don’t care as long as we are moving easily and make due with much less. And I’m sure we could have spent far less on the rig by using heavier materials, but this is a chance to bring modern materials to an ancient highly developed concept. I respect any choice made by anyone regarding their boat/rig. That’s the one thing about voyaging that I hope will always be true… everyone gets to do it their way. (Unless you’re in NZ, then you have to do it the governments way, or you can’t go). Freedom is fun.

[@vette8121]

@@rosiegreddogyachts4135 Love your concept, "what goes around comes around" looking forward to your next video....tm

[@Garryck-1]

Junk rigs have come a long way in the last few decades. Sounds as if, like most members of the Bermudan rig cult, you're out of touch.