Sailboats Are Getting Fatter - Why it's BAD - Ep 298 -Lady K Sailing

[@stephenbmorton]

I've been a subscriber for a year. Thanks for not wearing a bikini!!!

[@mikaelgarton372]

I bought my boat 16 years ago and it has a wide stern and twin rudders. The strange thing is that I have never had a problem with steering control in port, on the contrary it steers better with two rudders vs boats with single rudders even at extremely low speed. Another weird thing is, I've never had technical issues with the bow thruster in 16 years, but maybe that's because I don't need to use it that often. Finally, believe it or not, we sail faster and with at least the same wind angle compared to single rudder boats. I would also like to point out that a big advantage of twin rudders is that the autopilot is able to steer in strong winds and heeling because the rudder control is outstanding. The boat is an Elan 450

[@voornaam3191]

Sounds good. I sold my boat, but I've considered building in two rudders myself. For the old one was old, and if you go to sea, you do not want a rudder problem. Most owners of such boats have checked and reinforced the construction. The owners who race, they got large genakers, the rudder takes huge forces. Those people know what's inportant. The best accident is a bent stainless steel shaft. Rudder pointing a bit off. Oops. If it breaks off, you have an ugly hole under water. But the real reason, one rudder gets in trouble when the boat heels a lot. I don't want that. Two rudders are never dead vertical, there is an angle for a reason. And my last thing you can think about. We are stuck to the ship designs of the last few decades. And most sailing boats are based on fishing boats. How old depends, a lot is end 19th century. Those ships are proven, it was survival of the fittest boat shape. And today, when you buy such a race boat based yacht, you also get all the disadvantages. We KNOW that, I guess most people IGNORE such designs. Nice, but not for me. Thank God my budget is tiny. I just peddle a canoe and I can tell you, that is good. Good luck with those super yachts.

[@TheEnzedone]

If you own a boat and get out sailing, why on earth would you be watching this moron. He targets idiots with his verbal diarrhoea and false information.

[@tweitz8678]

I have had a Beneteau 323 for 18 seasons. It is the shoal draft model with a lifting keel and twin rudders. I have never encountered the problems you describe in maneuvering in the marina. I find that it maneuvers slightly differently from a single rudder, but has definite motion to port in reverse and I find it pretty easy to maneuver, even in tight quarters and even in wind or current.

[@ianbowbrick9396]

I have a Jeanneau 39i which is quite beamy, although not as extreme as the latest crop of pie shaped boats, it is still pretty wide. We absolutely love it, and we sail upwind alot. I think people who haven't sailed these modern hull designs tend to overstate the tendency to pound to weather. Our boat is quite fast and comfortable upwind, and it is very well balanced. For coastal cruising I will take a beamy modern boat over a skinny old design all day!

[@sailawayteam]

I own a narrow boat, and race on a wide boat. In heavy weather big waves both boats regularly slam in the waves in the most frightening way, but the wide boat is still quite a lot dryer in the cockpit. What I like more in the narrow boat is the safety of the cockpit, on a wide boat it is always a long way down from the rail. But all boats have their perks.

[@shday1]

I've sailed a 36i and loved it. Glad to hear you're happy with the 39i. The 39i is on my short list of boats I'd like to own one day!

[@kevinsummers7015]

I am the owner of a Jeanneau SO 440 (wide beam, long chines and twin helms). Far from being a dock queen we have sailed the entire West coast and are currently in the Sea of Cortez. From Seattle to San Francisco we had friends/crew with circumnav experience and after 800nm their comment was that it was good that the sailing industry had been thinking about how to _improve_ boats since the 1980's when their circumnav vessle was designed. I personally have backed this boat down a narrow fairway in a bad crosswind in Monterrey when the marina assigned us a slip that we wouldn't fit into. The twin rudders are awesome. I've practiced spinning this boat around when necessary and I don't need the bow thruster. The only comment I can make vs a 'back and fill' boat is that the twin rudders are different. Definitely NOT a poor handling boat. I have no issues with upwind performance. The rudders do extremely well with a following sea too.

[@LadyKSailing]

That’s a great point, and I appreciate your perspective!

[@stevedionne1316]

As a very happy Catalina 445 owner, I'd say you hit the nail on the head! Our Catalina sails well on all points of sail, doesn't pound in a seaway with no creaking down below, and is comfortable at anchor. My wife and I are in our late sixties, and find this boat easy to handle in the ocean as well as in tight marinas. She's well built with over sized deck hardware, points well, and sails 5-6 knots in 8-9 knots of breeze. For a fairly heavy cruiser, that's darn good! By comparison, I've raced on a Beneteau Oceanis 45 and crewed on the new Jeanneau 440. I found that neither boat points well... a full 10-15 degrees lower... and both are slow in light air. Also, the swept back spreaders make it impossible to sail dead down wind. While that wide transom helps in heavy air, it's a hindrance in light air, creating a lot of drag. And let's face it, most of us are sailing with our wives and family and most days avoid anything more than 20 knots of wind. So these boats offer very limited sailing performance. Big beamy boats make great "dockominiums", but are disappointing under sail. That's just a fact that doesn't seem to make it into the cruising magazines. Lastly, we're still in love with the interior of out boat. It's beautiful and comfortable with a spacious main salon. I will say that the sleeping accommodations are not as spacious in our 445, but they are more than adequate. The european manufacturers are following IKEA construction methods that (in my opinion) will not stand the test of time. My wife and I went to the Newport Boat Show this year and came away knowing we purchased the right boat 5 years ago. We wouldn't trade her for anything! Thank you Catalina for building a great boat and thank you Practical Sailor shining a light!

[@st.k.4528]

Thank you for such an informative comment from real owner. Good luck!

[@dawntreader7079]

your catalina does not do 5/6 in 8/9.

[@stevedionne1316]

@@dawntreader7079I know it’s hard to believe but yes it does. We replaced the 3 blade with a Gori folding prop and that made a big difference.

[@shainester]

What a great comment. Well thought out and in depth. BUT, I too find that boat speed in that wind speed a bit unbelievable, especially for a cruising / live aboard yacht.

[@jhermde]

I 've just returned from a one week cruise on a Solaris 40 in the Cyclades. This boat is designed just the way you described, a near perfect triangle. But man, this beast was the best cruiser I've ever sailed! Reaching with a Gennaker at 25kts true wind was like driving a Ferrari, simply unbelievable. Going upwind was equally impressive, 14 kts true and 9 kts speed on the log, even at sub 10kts wind we were seeing speeds just 2-3 kts below the true wind. The boat had twin rudders, of course, but no bow thruster, I was a bit worried when the base manager told me about that. But it turns out, the boat was actually quite easy to maneuver in the marina, if you need to make a tight turn, forward or reverse, simply put the engine into neutral, the boat turns immediately. Just make sure to have plenty of speed. Next year, it's gonna be a Pogo 44, can't wait.

[@DaleNewnham]

Agreed, I made an embarrassing and expensive maneuvering mistake in a Jeanneau 40ish with twin rudders and no bow thruster. I did not understand how flow over the rudder and engine thrust impacted how she turned. I believe with more knowledge and practice I would have avoided that catamaran! But as you say, she sailed beautifully upwind, admittedly with a bit of slapping in waves.

[@ChuckOsborne]

As an owner of one of those modern hull shapes (Jeanneau SO 440) I can tell you that they absolutely point very well. I have gone a steady 8.5 knots at 30 degrees to the apparent wind for long comfortable passages. They will slam if motored directly into the wind, but if you fall off and sail (they are sailboats) she will heel to the chine and it cuts through the water like a v hull on a motor boat and that twin rudder is now straight down and completely dug in. You are not going to round up. The reason many of these boats don't point well is not because of hull shape, but because owners choose a shoal draft keel, and in-mast furling on a 40 ft boat. Pointing well relies on good sails, sheeted in at the correct angle, and draft. You would help people a lot more by telling them to go with the standard keel and traditional mainsail. Those are far worse modern trends.

[@mrfish9876]

But in-mast furling is amazing, particularly if you're short-handed. (Eg single/couple on a

[@mfournier12]

@@mrfish9876 glad you like in mast or in boom furling. Personally I KISS and slab reefing to a sailor who practices reefing and has lazy jacks it takes no longer to raise and set a Main sail or reef down then it takes most roller reefing mains. Now my boat is MUCH smaller then many well healed sailors who can afford a new 40 ft boat but… I don’t even have roller furling on my head sails. I have slab reefed head sails (jib and staysail) and hank on sails. I change sails based on conditions I reef well before needed and the few times I was caught by a squall and it wind went from 7pm its to 20knit gusts in 3 min. (It really didn’t I was just unfamiliar with local weather conditions at that time and made the mistake of thinking oh that squall will miss us) but when it hit my preparations and ability to douse my head sail and reef my main in seconds not minutes I depowerd and not only saved my boat but never even lost a head sail or ever felt out of control. I have seen roller furling both head sails and roller reefed mains Stuck because the load on the sail was more then the roller reefing system could handle and the boat broached and or head sails were ripped to shreds because the sailor relied on the roller furling hardly ever went forward or even ventured out of the cockpit normally so they were big repaired to go forward to unjam a furler that wouldn’t allow them to reef down. They were not even used up going as far as the mast and because of this their boat didn’t have proper safety lines and harnesses to make going forward to reduce sail safely. So ya roller furling is great Ina nice calm day sail when they reef as they should but I have seen far too many boats return with a tattered Genoa that was caught out or jammed. Seen furling lines chafe and snap and all ghe sail roll out while on passage again now a big 150 Genoa is out in 15-20 knots and the skipper is now faces with going forward to try and get it down but that are not used to leaving the cockpit even on a nice weather the thought of going forward in a blow and swell scares the shit out of them as it’s not something the are used to doing safely. Other people have actually died when in mast furling failed and a boom preventer snapped and the boom struck the crew members and killed them huge sail Ina large boat with heavy in boom furler swinging free with a loose main sheet was a recipe for disaster

[@gelbevierzehn]

So right!! In-mast furling and the resulting sailplan is the reason for bad upwind performance...

[@ChuckOsborne]

@@mrfish9876 that is fine if that works for you. All I am saying is don’t blame hull design for a lack of upwind performance.

[@lexstockton3785]

I’m not even an amateur sailor, sailing is just something I’ve enjoyed when I gotten to spend some time under sail. I have no idea who is right but major points for having a civil conversation with each person having what seems like a reasonable position.

[@stephenallen3239]

I own a Beneteau Oceanis 38. I have no issues in maneovering in a marina at slow speed. The lack of prop walk is a real benefit. The two rudders make for excellent moving forward or astern. Secondly, windward performance is excellent. Just 15-20 degrees off of the wind, in 15 knots, I get 8-10kts boat speed with no ‘slamming’ of the hull even in very choppy seas. The hard chine from far forward all the way to the helm prevents a lot of heeling and the twin rudders provide excellent steering under such conditions. Perhaps you had one bad experience or were pushing the boat too hard? I find I less sail to get the best performance…. I have kept up with a Beneteau 46 that had all their sails out (Gen + Main) when I was reefed in with same sail plan to about 2/3rds sail. The 46 was heeled over too much and I was not. We videoed each other and compared notes after. It was clear to both of us that reducing sail not only made for a more comfortable sail, but also yielded same performance.

[@anthonycollins9797]

I agree with the points you make, though I think we need to be honest and clear about the market research that the volume manufacturers put into the design of these boats. They are very well packaged for their intended purpose. They are second/weekend homes, ideal for entertaining and sun lounging in the med. Typically they will be used at weekends and for a month in the summer - just walk through a typical marina on a windy Wednesday morning and see how many are out there! The charter/flotilla customers will love the space and multiple large cabins and heads. They will give a good turn of speed for primarily day sailing between marinas and sheltered anchorages. They will happily cope with a longer two or three day crossing and occasional overnight passage in good (summer) weather. Yes, they will slam in a blow or rough seas, but these boats won’t be out then and if they get caught out, the double figure cruising speed under engine means it will be a quick dart into shelter. Unreliable bow thrusters? Tired fittings and interiors? Very possibly, but those issues are either under warranty or will become an increasing problem for the second/third owner. Long after the new boat purchaser has moved on to the updated model. The volume manufacturers know their customers needs and the price point they want to pay for the features. Now, if you were looking for a live aboard boat to circle the world in comfort and safety in any weather you would not be in this market segment. Yes, I know people do and good luck and love to them! There are manufacturers out there who will very happily meet your needs of those who want a boat with long legs and they charge corresponding price tags. We can’t complain that an average midrange family car does not have the features, refinements, and practicality of a high spec fully kitted out off roader. Why would we think we could with boats.

[@wills681]

A well said and balanced comment. Manufacturers are giving customers what they want. As a rule of thumb, it was once calculated that most recreational boats spend at least 90% of their lives alongside a marina or other sheltered moorings. Having worked in the yacht marina and offshore yacht building arena (circa 1970s, 1980s and 1990s) I've seen the market change to reflect consumer aspirations.

[@foobar9220]

@@wills681 I think it is only half the truth to say that manufacturers build what customers want. Just with cars that nowadays almost all claim to be a sports car and an offroader at the same time, that demand has mostly been manufactured. If asked honestly, very few people would say that they want a boat that turns the V-birth into a slammy rollercoaster and going upwind requires motoring for acceptable comfort. But of course, if you ask people about whether they want space or a boat that planes downwind... And of course, there is all the maintenance issues that will be passed down to the second owner who never gets a real say in what is produced for the market

[@averageyoutubeenjoyer3052]

Almost at 100k! I've been watching your videos for almost a year and a half now, I cant wait to see you reach this milestone!

[@LadyKSailing]

You and me both!

[@foobar9220]

9 days later and we are at 102k. Hope your daughter really likes that play button ;)

[@erikrivers8039]

The original Lady K theme song was a great touch!

[@N330AA]

Yeah, proper Hendrix vibes

[@Frog13799]

It would be safe to say, designers of old drew a seaworthy hull and then worked out the interior, nowadays the interior is drawn to attract the wives at the boat shows and the hull is drawn around it. Trends of today include low ballast ratios, excessive beam and freeboard, skimpy attachment of keels, and vulnerable rudders to name a few. The quest for speed and space has sacrificed the vessel being seaworthy in tough conditions.

[@gbmacc58]

100 % agree. Though it's something that has been happening for decades : most cruising boats produced by the volume manufacturers merely suffice for the circumstances of those who own/charter them - the vast majority. But they are in no way fit for extended ocean cruising in all weather/sea conditions which, as I interpret it, is the subject matter of this channel.

[@h2olog]

I'm surprised you didn't mention that in most modern, wide-transom boats, there's not much in the huge cockpit to hold onto. Send a crewmember to trim the jib, and there's a good chance they'll grab one of the wheels to steady themselves on the way "downhill".

[@samaeri]

I have a Catalina 34 mkii it's such the happy medium. I delivered a Beneteau 35 something with the hull shape your describing imoca ish, from Santa Barbara to Monterey we fell off motor sailing into the wind near conception because of the abrupt slamming. It was harsh. Boy do they look good though

[@henrydevelopment]

A point to note, wide transom sail boats will tend to change the attitude of the keel when heeled (stern up nose down); this tends to run the boat leeward thus negatively impacting windward performance. You need to stack a lot of rail-meat aft and windward to counter this.

[@jimduke5545]

You didn’t mention the rigging that the euro-production boats are equipped with these days: the single line German main sheet system. The boom cannot be hauled in by a traveler and jibing is much harder to control. (I saw 3 boats in bvi with creased boom’s suspiciously at the same place on the boom where a crash jibe would slam all that force from the line to the boom. The other rigging trend on these boats is no Genoa tracks to adjust the sheeting angle for different points of sail. At best, there is a snatch block with about 2’ of adjustment. Often it’s just a tension ring. The 445 is awesome. I’m still happy with my C42 but I did have to crawl around on the 445 last week just to dream a bit😉 Congrats on 102k

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you!

[@boathemian7694]

My wife circumnavigated the southern ocean ona Wylie 39’ performance cruiser in 8 months and it wasn’t what most people think is a blue water boat. Spade rudder, fin keel tall rig etc. But, she and her partner knew wtf they were doing and things went reasonably well.

[@swordmanjosh]

Early congrats on the 100k mark. Well deserved and you are one of my main sailing channels I watch. You do an amazing job and we thank you.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you very much!

[@nelson_at_sea]

I wouldn't really call them dock queens, but rather designed for coastal cruising charter markets. Lots of accommodations and room to party. As a number of comments pointed out, if you let the boat heel up enough it can cut through the waves better, However not all your passengers may like heeling that much, which leads to the pounding Tim described. My bigger issue with this design is the handling in a quartering sea. That transom can really get tossed around. Thanks, but ill stick with my heavy, narrow Cal.

[@billwang88]

Catalina 30 MKII owner here. I thought I had already subscribed your channel already since your content consistently serves up to me. Anyway, just subscribed. Thank you for making these content and not cluttering them with music. I've always admired how roomy the new boats are, but I wouldn't want to own a boat where the floor is glued to the hull. Any grounding, or even just bad weight distribution during a haul out may easily cause the glue to fail.

[@mikestephan2568]

Here's to your achievement of 100K subscribers from someone that remembers when you hit 10K!. I love hearing the old "Lady K Theme Song" on today's video. It brings back a lot of fond memories of your videos when you departed Canada for the Bahamas. Back them I thought the "K" in Lady K stood for Kandice.

[@kenwhitfield219]

Thanks again for explaining this ‘problem’ so well. And thus justifying my choice of a Catalina 400 over the new Beneteau 41. I like the best of both worlds solution that the Catalina offers to allow sailing on all points of sail. Still curious though about the blue water capabilities of the Catalina 400, if properly fitted out. Which my new ‘old’ boat is.

[@scanadaze]

I feel better now. I always thought my pontoon boat was supper slow. It's just as fast as the older sailboats. It's too bad these new sailboats were so expensive. I would love to own one. Thanks for sharing.

[@murrat]

My Beneteau Cycladed 43 slammed upwind. I beat the crap out of it doing the thorny path from Bahamas to Grenada. The floor grid came loose as well.

[@ejdd3442]

I love the content and topics on this channel-this is a great subject! This winter, I’ll be chartering a twin-helm boat with dual rudders

[@dcmsr5141]

Dude I found you a couple of weeks ago and love the tips. Although late to the community, happy to be part of it and congrats!!!

[@LadyKSailing]

Welcome aboard!

[@kieranpalmer9045]

I've got a UFO 34, she's old and cramped but if it can survive the 1998 Sydney to Hobart AND the 1979 Fastnet, i couldn't care less, its nice knowing she will carry me through the heavy weather each and every time.

[@flower2289]

Why is your narrow boat so safe in heavy weather? Thanks.

[@flower2289]

And what makes some catamarans so safe in weather although they are very wide? Thanks again, Wayne.

[@drewgibbons5464]

Belated congratulations and love you in return Dude! All the best

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@jonunya3128]

really good to see you doing as well as you are. you deserve it Tim.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you so much 😀

[@apeiron42-j1r]

Big Congratulations! Happy to have contributed. Glad you can still use the music!! Love it. Keep it up. Looking forward to more of Charlie the Truck too. Got my Lady K T-shirt here in the UK too!!

[@LadyKSailing]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@drddrddrd]

I have been sailing my fat bottom Beneteau Oceanis 35.1 for six years. I find going upwind not an issue. Some slamming, but nothing to shake my teeth out. Maneuvering in a marina is not an issue either. Once the boat is moving at 0.5 kts I have control, in forward or reverse. Need to stop quick? Big burst of throttle. Several times people on a dock I was approaching asked if I had a bow thruster and they were surprised when I told them "No."

[@MrAnthism]

We like what we see, the way you are giving it to us, do not change anything at all! Congrats for the growth!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@jessiebrader2926]

Coastal cruisers I call em, great for shorter trips not too far from land and with wonderful accommodations. However...avoid large beam seas, as the wave goes under the boat with a flat bottom the boat can roll side to side at extreme speed. Enough to make the gimble on the stove unable to keep up and be extremely difficult to stand up. Fun to sail but not ocean going, a handful in large beam seas. They look good though!

[@brianrogers6059]

One additional note on a wide transom is wave slap which can be very loud while trying to sleep.

[@markindy862]

🎵🎶Flat bottom boats they make the sailing world go’round🎶🎵

[@maverickmyrtlebeach]

lol ♪ Fat bottom girls make the world go around ♪ good one Mark ~

[@henrykfu]

@@maverickmyrtlebeach someone beat me to it

[@12345fowler]

Hey I like it. Byyycycle Byyyycycle

[@12345fowler]

Spellcheck : it's bicycle actually lol

[@nightmedic653]

I am so glad I found this here.

[@valerieb.4912]

Congratulations Tim! I knew you were going to make it. So exciting to watch you grow. I will be preparing for a direct hit. Batten Down the Hatches! Here we go again! Happy Sailing ⛵

[@aaronp1434]

As a racer it boggles my mind the number of cruisers who avoid going anywhere close to the wind at almost all costs…. I’d say that would SEVERELY impact any usefulness of a sailboat. While the wide flat boats are beautiful at the dock, if I want a floating cottage….. I’ll go power boat.

[@emilejacobs2m53]

I have a sort of modern boat with a wide stern and it goes upwind at the same speed as the older boats, but as soon as the AWA increases to 40 degrees and more it is a lot faster than the others.

[@cleaterose5914]

Wow! in the San Pedro Channel, we frequently find ourselves sailing upwind outbound and return. This is vital information for socal sailors to know.

[@ThatGuy-cw8gb]

Thank you for all the amazing content! Please keep it coming! You sir have in fact helped go sailing!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@adamlockwood331]

Fantastic job, Tim! You’ve truly earned this. Your hard work over the years has paid off!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you very much!

[@DrJD123]

Glad to see you made it to 100k..... 500k next! I'm only just getting into this whole sailing thing and your videos are some of the best. I always learn a lot of interesting stuff. Keep up the awesome work mate.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@VinisSailingJourney]

I am designing my catamaran from scratch, and your experiences greatly help!

[@jodo1971]

Congratulations on the 100K, you certainly deserve it, this channel is an oasis of knowledge. Thank you!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you very much!

[@FlipCouvillion]

I can’t wait to see you get a play button! Let’s GO!🤙

[@toddrader1470]

This is great, I have never been on any of these boats and yet I could almost feel the problems.

[@davewallace9964]

Congratulations on nearly reaching 100k subscribers you will get there very soon. You put out some great content. Love your videos.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks so much!

[@bill8784]

Thank you for your timely analysis as only the other day watching a review of a sailing yacht I wondered with my wife why yachts seemed to be getting so broad in the beam and it’s implications.

[@Apaxuki]

You have helped me believe in my forgotten dreams of sailing across the oceans, besides you are a cool guy, congrats on your first 100K

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@Saltinhisveins]

Congratulations Tim, 100k is a testament to a great channel. Thanks for your relatable and interesting content. Time to crack a tinnie 🍻

[@LadyKSailing]

Many thanks!

[@rfneisig1]

Congratulations on the 100k!!! Been watching you for a long time and and like a fine wine, Better With Time!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks so much!

[@barroosa]

Congrats on 100k. Speaks to the information and how it is delivered that you have reached this milestone.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you very much!

[@michaeldenicola6725]

Great Video very interesting look at the change in the newer boats. I guess it comes down to the question, What do I want from my sailboat.. Enjoy the Annapolis boat show. Safe Sailing.

[@SixSigmaProcessCons]

Any chance to look in to Contest boats from Coniplex?

[@annhysell6064]

Yes, well done. Missing Annapolis this year 😂 Hope to be aboard my boat (Tartan 37) next year in the harbor & working/volunteering next. From Ashtabula, OH on Lake Erie, we appreciate you & your knowledge. Be well, hope the weather is lovely!

[@SeekingSikhiStories]

Congratulations brother 👏🏼🙂 Looks like you made it to 100K subscribers by my screen 😲 As an aspiring sailor with the dream for the last 8 years, as a Canadian 🇨🇦, and as a student and world citizen, I salute you and want to thank you for saving so much money, time, and the oh so many lives with your knowledge. Time to redeem that play button for all your hardwork!! ✌🏼💜🙏🏼

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you so much!

[@Bruin4Life]

Love the channel and subscribed years ago even though I don’t have a boat. Also subscribed to your Charlie the Truck and HistorSea channels as knowledge is wonderful and I have been a lifelong learner. Back in the 1970’s (1973 and into the 1080’s) I built a Cherolet van and later a Dodge Maxivan into home camper vans with a bed, ice box, clothing boxes that slid under the bed, Coleman 3-burner gas stove, Curtains, etc. My wife, daughter and I camped all over California and Mexico for over 13, 14 years, so am loving our buildout of the box truck which is going to be more sophisticated than mine, but then there weren’t man, if any companies doing van buildouts. Keep up the great work.😊

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@mukkaar]

I would say this modern trend is good one. Both for better sailing and inside/deck layout. Everything I have heard contradicts upwind being issue of significance. Twin rudders on other hand allow better steering and redundancy. Heck, it could even act as tripod for beaching the boat as long as they are sturdy.

[@Spar19row]

I was crew on a trip to Bermuda. Slept in the v-birth. I was literally lifted into the air and slammed down every 15 seconds. It's a tough slog through the Gulf Stream; but, I think it's worse with these wide boats.

[@kenneth1767]

I'm relatively new subscriber. Glad to be one of the Pre 100k. Great channel for me as a newby to the world of sailing.

[@LadyKSailing]

Welcome aboard!

[@billcasso5428]

100k looks like you are learning the KZbin tricks. I love you guys

[@BojanKogoj]

We just rented Oceanis 35.1, twin rudder no bow thruster. It was fun docking in 15+ knots winds

[@RobbyP1969]

Congratulations on the play button. I only got here a year or so ago, but have enjoyed your videos immensely. I'll be at the Annapolis boat show (my first one as I get nearer to retirement), but not until Monday, so I'll not be seeing you around. Maybe next year. More catamarans !! My wife insists on a cat, and I'd love to learn more about them.

[@fk8marko774]

Congrats on 100K subs Tim, you deserve it man. Another informative video. I did enjoy the 46.1 as far as space was concerned but I do see your points. Not lost on me

[@LadyKSailing]

Awesome, thank you!

[@bojangles8837]

The reality here is that boatbuilders want to build as many hulls as they can with the same design. Stands to reason, that’s how they make a profit. The approach of most boatbuilders to achieve that goal is to have a boat designed that will appeal to the maximum number of people regardless of their experience or knowledge. And, if you think about it, this kind of makes sense, because the very people who are experienced enough to know what’s important in an offshore boat probably already have a boat and don’t need another one. So we end up with boats designed to please potential customers that by very definition are poorly equipped to recognize a boat that will work well in the very environment that the boat will operate in-not good. But most yacht designers have been tied to their drawing boards and computer monitors by the need to build a business and therefore have very little offshore experience. That leads to bad offshore boats because the designer has simply not spent enough time in the environment that he/she is designing the boat to operate in. Very few people are experienced enough to know what’s important in an offshore boat. Twin rudders are costly and complicated, add unnecessary drag, increase the loads on the system, and are much more vulnerable to damage from floating debris. I’m convinced that another of the reasons behind the current trend of massive assed boats is that many racing boats are designed that way, so it has become cool and fashionable. Gives the designer the ability to create unseamanlike living room-sized enclosed cockpits. But this is…well…just plain stupid. Cruising and racing boats have completely different missions and must be optimized and designed differently. Not so with the cruiser, which must heel to gain stability from the keel. So when said wide stern family cruiser heels, the water plane shape changes, and bad things happen, like difficult steering culminating in uncontrolled auto-tacking when a puff hits. Further, the additional buoyancy of a wide stern drives the fine, low buoyancy bow these boats are designed with (to maintain an even halfway sensible prismatic coefficient) down into the water as the boat heels, making them very wet. So the next time you see a huge aft or forward cabin with a center line queen-sized bunk in, or a sailing channel tuber crows that the boat he is pushing at you “has the largest interior of any boat on the market”, you will know that it’s a really good time to run the other way

[@yzScott]

This is exactly why we love our 1988 Swan 59.

[@georgeburns7251]

swan, one of the most beautiful boats.

[@HANZELVANDERLAAY]

​@@georgeburns7251yes

[@jessiebrader2926]

Lovely boat, ketch or sloop? And don't they just cut through the water so well. Quality vessel

[@yzScott]

@@jessiebrader2926 Sloop. It is a German Frers design. It rides very well. Most of my ocean crossing has been on race boats, so I really appreciate and understand the difference.

[@TomahawkMark843]

I'm late to the party after being glued to the hurricane coverage, but I wanted to congratulate you on hitting 100,000 subscribers. Well done!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you!

[@SirCharles12357]

Congrats on 100k! You deserve it. And I appreciate you!

[@LadyKSailing]

I appreciate that!

[@robertmorrison107]

Great Episode btw, I was curious if you'd do an episode on something I am focused on which is food logistics on a sailboat. Yes, we can all do pasta/ric and canned food. But for those of us who'd like to learn more about potential food tricks on a sail boat. Specifics of tricks I've learned, ginger beer, farm eggs, condensed milk > powdered milk, hanging tomato's and microgreens, fish preservation. Basically tricks to add more fresh variety to your menu so you aren't eating out of a can or packs of ramen.

[@sailorgeer]

“Keep the heavy side down - but not TOO far down” is the best possible tag line for a sailing channel :)

[@jeriksson7686]

Most boats cruises in light winds along the shores. Looks like living rooms with a keel. Yesterdays boats was designed for sailing by sailors.

[@enrique-y6e]

Easy on the kayak criticism :) I can spin my 18' Fiberglass Stellar sea kayak on a dime. I'm a sea-kayaker turned sailor. Happy to offer some pointers on how to turn your kayak. Love your channel!

[@sunlovesailing]

Congratulations Tim! In the sailing world of KZbin that’s quite an achievement. I’m subscribed from two channels, thanks for the vids from both of yours! So many reasons why I wouldn’t buy a pizza slice boat, but to me the most important, is comfort. As Bill Crealock said “I believe comfort at sea is the most important piece of safety gear”… or something like that😊I concur. Fatigue leades to bad decisions.

[@PaulieB-wi7mx]

Complaining about a performance cruiser doing some pounding upwind is like complaining that porsche does not handle the ruff roads very well and then suggesting a mini van as a replacement.

[@siberianshuburshun688]

Gentlemen don't sail upwind.

[@tonyreynolds2328]

@@siberianshuburshun688 Made me chuckle. 🙂

[@brainproblems]

We chartered a Bavaria C42 a few months ago and were thoroughly impressed by its sailing performance, including pointing ability. And we also enjoyed the very wide cockpit and interior. But we did not sail in heavy seas so can't comment on comfort at sea.

[@OGillo2001]

Thoughts and prayers

[@matei2.0]

Good to see you doing well, Timster! Congrats on reaching 100K. I recently found your content and catch vids as time allows. Still sailing Free Ride on the hard since the acquisition- maybe splashing her in the spring after I finish up the last items on the refurb. Life got in the way in the interim... good thing plastic lasts. Anyhow, keep up with the good content! Cheers! Matt

[@LadyKSailing]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@SurfinScientist]

I always wondered about the seaworthiness of those modern bath tubs.

[@faircompetition1203]

I went with a more moderate boat , lots of room for the aft cabin and still sails well . Lower windage , dryer to sail . And she has a lifting keel - LOVE that . Built like a tank , hull to deck joint , bulk heads all fully glassed , and even the cabinets are tabbed in . The weight all down low and in the center . My biggest concern with new production boats is they are not built to last or be repaired . They are built to look great at the dock and be comfortable on anchor , even to be fast on a reach but certainly not to last .

[@carlosvallejo4926]

Congratulations for your 100K !!!!! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with all of us. Best wishes from Canary Islands 👍

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks! 😃

[@jonathanhernandez4304]

From a Chris Craft cruiser to a Catalina 28. I'm glad Catalina (what I consider to be a mid quality boat) is keeping the hull design a bit traditional. Compared to Cruisers sailboat interior space is sparse so more room is needed. But not at the cost of sailing upwind.

[@svharmsway2501]

Just subscribed, enjoy your content, always learn something from your videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, fair winds

[@LadyKSailing]

Welcome aboard!

[@chrissterba501]

Very nice video, thanks for sharing thoughts on this! And a HUGE CONGRATULATIONS on the well-deserved 100k subscribers!!!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks so much!

[@lambertoazzi7883]

Jeanneau Sunrise 34... An excellent compromise and probably the last decent boat model built by Jeanneau before they started making charter boats... just lift the floor boards and you'll see... and it also has a half skeg. Yes my old S&S IW31 was true blood but as liveaboard comfort, there is no comparison and this really makes a difference. Congratulations for the first 100K subscribers!

[@robertquenby6570]

Hi, love your channels and have done for a long time. It seems to me that the twin rudder set up requires a sail drive converted to work like an I P S drive as used on power boats. All the best, keep up the good work Bob.

[@danlarson5421]

Congratulations on 100K subscribers. Enjoy this channel

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you very much!

[@charles.neuman18]

Good idea to shop new boats to see what we'll be buying in 10-20 years! I do that with used boats. I'm waiting for some sugar scoops to get old enough to be affordable. Great to hear the old theme song again. Congrats in advance to 100k!

[@TheJmccready]

Hello. You are so correct on your comments, I had a beneteau 25.7 first . Bought it new (dealership disaster) it wouldn't steer until it had water passing over the rudders, that took two boat lengths forward or reverse, slammed directly into waves, ( you could have broken the boat easily in two,) but it could go downwind with the lifting keel up, it also was a disaster until I bolted it down properly, great yanmar though!

[@voornaam3191]

Some lifting keels are just calculated for the trailer, or for running aground. You must bolt them down while sauling. THOSE keels are not safe to lift while sailing. You got to check that. Seriously, watch out!

[@mattd370]

Your perspective and knowledge keeps me watching. Congrats on getting some of the clout you deserve!

[@LadyKSailing]

I appreciate that!

[@SG-jd5hy]

Thanks Tim. Great, very balanced, analysis. I would add that the chined hull on the Beneteau mitigates a good chunk of the heeling - which can be a plus or a minus, depending on your love of heeling. These boats are comfort cruisers with 6’5” headroom, spacious cabins. I only go in reverse in marinas with my 38.1. I steer with the bow thruster. Seven years and no thruster breakdown yet, but call me lucky. There is zero prop steer on these twin rudder boats, as you noted. Congrats on 102k!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks!

[@SoloSailorDave]

I have a customer in my marina who has the Beneteau with the twin rudder; it's horrible in tight quarters.

I agree, this summer I was on V-shaped Beneteau 38.1. It was nice on a flat sea but when swell picked up, it wasn't comfortable at all to sail upwind. Such a difference to Bavaria 46, which was behaving much better in rough seas.

[@gregoutridge6173]

I've had skinny boats and fat bottomed boats. It's utter rubbish that ALL wide beam boats are bad. Equally it is utter rubbish to say ALL skinny designs are good. I will address your points one by one. Statement 1) - Two ruddered designs are dangerous maneouvering in harbour. Utterly false. My 40' twin ruddered boat had no bow thruster, my berth was 6' off the rocks and the prevailing breeze was sideways. Never once had an issue with berthing.Sure they have a wider turning arc going forward, but dangerous???? Complete rubbish. Btw, in reverse they are a dream to dock. Statement 1.5)- no prop wash. Utterly false. I had plenty of prop wash and my rudders were 4mtrs apart. Prop wash still happens without a rudder in the flow. Statement 2) - Hate to sail upwind. Utterly false. We could sail all day at 45TWA, regardless of wind conditions. Under staysail on the inner forestay and you could sail at 40TWA and drive past poor to average skinny designs without crew on the rail comfortably, safely and with little to no effort. Statement 3) - Horrible pounding? Utterly false. The hullform forward of the keel was more rounded than my skinny boats, in actual fact it pounded less than a lot of IOR hull forms I've sailed. The real negative you completely missed on wide beam boats is pointing too high in light airs and short sharp heavy seas increases the wetted surface area, creates a lot of drag and slows you down a lot and has a higher chance of pounding. The solution is to drop off to say 50TWA and the boat is like a carpet ride. Statement 4: Wide beam is dangerous in follwong seas. Complete bunkum. I had a 4.5mtr beam, open transom and despite lots of miles in some pretty horrific seas, never once did we get water in the cockpit from a following sea. Summary: Generalisations of this magnitude are stupid. You are completely ignoring the fact that not all designs are the same. Please be more accurate and try for less of the ridiculous generalisations. For reference, my fat bottomed girl was a Pogo 12.50. Cheers and all the best to you and your channel!

[@HommyRosado]

Love your passion and love your success!!

[@jimo5564]

Sensitive Topic: First, I am a subscriber, and a happy one. I've enjoyed Lady K Sailing for years. Grazing thru KZbin today I came across 'Sailing with Thomas' for the first time. The topic was duel rudders plusses and minuses. I did not get through the entire thread before he had mentioned you and your opinions on this subject at least three times. I stopped the vid and went to the comments. Yikes! It was very interesting reading Thomas' supporters and the few folks that seemed to be on your side. As with many subjects polarization was quite apparent. Interestingly it seemed the Thomas supporters seemed to be folks with boats under 40 feet and little experience with two rudders. Sure, as always, some fellow caught a ride a traditional IOR 38 footer and got the crap kicked out of him, and naturally his one time on a great summer day was his friend's fatty. I digress: I'm 80, now and sailing is 20 years behind me. I've owned 6 sailboats beginning with a Venture 17 in 1973. In that time I've circumnavigated in my Frers Hylas 42, 6 years and 42 countries. That with racing and other cruising in Seattle and San Diego have me well over 55,000 ocean/saltwater miles. So, I'm sure what I have to say is possibly more informed that some commenters. Second: After my circumnavigation I ended up in San Diego and stayed there 1995. I gave slide shows to make a few bucks an said my piece. One very important item I always covered was comfort and comparing Frers' deep keel as apposed to the "new" Bruce Farr's flat hull before the keel design. I've seen and talked to folks in Farr boats after a crossing, generally 20 days. They looked like they were very, very tired. I leave it at that. Third: Watching designers slowly bring Farr's flattish bottoms aft has really been interesting these past 29 years. Because of European economics not many Euros can afford boats and chartering is a really big deal in the Med. Euro designers, and builders have listened to the yacht brokers and now we have evolved into two rudder, two steering station, and two queen size beds in the after cabins. Progress? You seem not to think so in your post above. Forth: What can we do? Every boat show touts this new concept to the point that barely a tradition boat with one keel and one wheel is available over 40 feet. To hear the brokers talk this is the greatest thing since fiberglass was invented. Is it? I'm not an expert, but I have always liked the idea and the 'look' of these new boat designs. To me they cannot be comfortable, as was the case with late 1980's+ Farr designs. I can't speak for this current design, other than most of the big racers use the concept. So, are you correct? Maybe. I'm willing to let the economy sort this out. It generally does. In your/our case perhaps getting a birth on one of these two rudder race boats and get more facts to deal with. Try it, you will like it! Thanks for your good work.

[@shday1]

The way Thomas posted out-of-context clips was pathetic. Most of the commenters came from another, even more pathetic, channel. That guy is constantly harassing other content creators; including IRL.

[@jetstar59]

You did it! The counter above says 100K! Congrats! Love the channel. As a novice sailor, this is the most informative sailing channel there is.

[@LadyKSailing]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@judd-sv-galileo]

Because you’re a legend Tim. If I could I would subscription 200 times.

[@anonpers0n]

took my first and new to me old boat out a couple weeks ago single handed for 3 days and nights cruising a local lake... no real issues... my outboard could use a tune

[@carlwegener7544]

The split rudders do require you to go a bit faster to maintain stearage. My Jeanneau 349 loves to go to windward. It does heel a bit when doing it, but I have reached double digets in SF bay.

[@nickmaltzoff9958]

Very interesting. I have a "middle ground" 15 year old Jeanneau SO50DS and was wondering about the new triangular boats. Two rudders are a definite no-no. I have a single rudder and a bow thruster lol, but perfect when docking. But I hadn't realised about the sail performance of the triangular boats upwind. I had a young professional skipper from a charter company on my boat the other day. The boats he sails are all beautiful modern triangular boats. He commented how much more "pleasant" my boat was to sail upwind and on a broad reach, how the steering was more effective and how there was "much less pressure" on the wheel. In fact, he was enjoying being at the wheel so much, that we didn't switch on the autopilot once. I was wondering why he said that, and your video explains it.