Ep. 103 - Replacing a Quattro With a Multiplus-II

[@tastiger91]

Nothing like unboxing new toys, even kitty scissorhands loves building.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

"kitty scissorhands" - ahahaha!

[@MaxiveLegend]

I'm barely following along with a word you're saying, but I really love seeing the progress, and seeing how excited you are about it. it's infectious! Eager for the next one already! :)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I didn't know any of this when I started, either. It's all about having fun learning as a project moves along. ^_^

[@jamesthepuerilis]

I love seeing you nerd out with this stuff 😄, loving the boat work and everything you do, especially playing with the kitty

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Awe, thanks for watching alone, James. Mae is absolutely the star of the show now though, and I am OK with that. :P

[@sv.alannah]

Hello. I was looking for info on the Victron Mulitplus 2000 and stumbled on you channel. YAY! a new rabbit hole to go down. Anyway you have a new sub... or should I say student. When it come to boats I know allot having built Chris Crafts at one point then becoming a certified Mercury Tech. However when it come to building a solar system and battery's clearly you are my new best friend.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Welcome! I am no expert, but I am always happy to share what I've learned so far. :)

[@SimpleElectronics]

"I think I did all that and the screen recording wasn't working" - how many times have I recorded a whole segment and looked over and realized I had not plugged my mic to my camera! All part of the process!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Aye, but after this long, I shouldn't still be making so many mistakes... Ah well, can only do our best.

[@KeritechElectronics]

Nice inverter! Makes me wish Dave Jones of EEVBlog could do a teardown video, And a cute little kitty, mrrrrrrrrrrrrr. She certainly asks for lots of screen time... and deserves it!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

She will get all the screen time she wants, she brings all the cuteness! I'd be keen to see Dave, Big Clive, or someone else rip one of these apart!

[@LesNewell]

It's good to see inside a Multiplus. It saves me taking mine apart when I get it. Those three black/blue cables are paralleled windings. It's difficult to wind really heavy wires so they use three smaller ones in parallel instead. The 28.75V confused me a bit but after thinking about it, that's RMS. 28.75*1.4 = 40.25V peak. That roughly corresponds to a very low 48V battery. The smaller 'transformer' with two coils is most likely a common mode choke. It's used to reduce conducted interference on the cables.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Ah, ok, thank you very much for that! I won't lie, I was a bit nervous about cracking into such an expensive box, but I HAD TO KNOWS! haha.

[@michaelseitz8938]

Nice to watch while soldering audio stuff 🙂 The background music was a good addition, thanks!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thank you! This was one of the first tech videos I decided to add it to. I wasn't sure if it would fit, but I am happy with how it worked out. I am glad you liked it also. ^_^

[@incredibleyoutubehandle]

Thanks for posting your new inverter and sharing your project! I had checked your lithium battery banks out before and liked the videos. I do off grid power, plumbing as a lifestyle/hobby. I use the 48/3000 now and am considering 48/5000 because we're starting to use some bigger loads. For example, I'll have an air conditioner turned off temporarily so I can run a 1800W deep fryer or 1400W instant pot (and with the rest of the lights, fans, computers, laundry, etc, also using power). I saw your comment about parallel 48/3000 for redundancy, and I think it's a good idea! My 48/3000 would probably get installed at my daughters' farm which is on a cheap inverter now, and my spares at home are also cheap 48V pure sine inverters, so far. I'd love to have a couple parallel Victron 3000s though! Working on the 48/3000 made me think about the wire sizing I saw. When 48/3000 came out, the manual specified 2 AWG, and my system is built with 2 AWG as a result. Not long after, they changed it to 1 AWG, but I'm not too concerned about that because my fuse should protect the wire, and the fuse is the specified 125A in the Victron manual (125A Class T fuse inside a blue seas ignition protected fuse holder). Still, I plan to move up to 1 AWG for these the next time I make any changes, just like I plan to finally install the busbars I bought instead of stacking lugs etc... But I don't really like to take my system offline, my inverter uptime is around a year so we are about 10x better than the local power company, and I haven't made any changes to the system in around 2.5 years. We live off grid, this is "production". I really don't like making changes to production without solid reasons and considering associated risks, and I still haven't bought a torque wrench capable of guaranteeing I put those dc cable bolts on at 12nm. Yes I have sheared one off, but that was before I knew it was a tinned brass bolt, NOT stainless, I use a smaller socket driver now. For 48/5000, they specify 2/0 AWG battery cable, I believe.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Wire sizes are generally guides, but not always good. You need to factor current at the end of the wire and the length of the wire (to get the estimated resistance). So as the cable gets longer, you need larger guage to off-set the increased resistance. I always use Southwire's voltage drop calculator to choose a wire for a given run that keeps me, ideally, under 1% voltage drop. Now, the exception to that is where ABYC standards dictate a given wire guage, which I need to follow to keep insurance. So in the final install, I'll probably use large guage wires to conform to those requirements.

[@blah666]

Thanks for sharing - love the new whiskered overlord...

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

She is a worthy monarch. :D

[@robynrox]

You were missing from my feed. Welcome back!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Glad to have you back! KZbin seems to randomly remove subscriptions for who knows what reason. =/

[@ritchycamaro]

What a lot of electrical things going on. Great! BTW, wouldn't worry about the waterproofing the wire grommets to much. There is a large ventilation hole besides it. Keep it up Maddy👍

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Ya, that intake vent is hardly going to hold back water, good point. :)

[@segwaytothepicture1109]

Love the comeback of the orange sweater..

[@ismzaxxon]

Just a tip, when dealing with mains power, remember capacitors may still have mains voltage in them. Anything over 20 milliamps at mains voltage kills. A capacitor will just dump all it's power (amps). learnt that the hard way as an apprentice . Some add bleeder resistors, but not many.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Remember when early digital cameras still had flashes in them? I dumped a freshly charged flash capacitor into my thumb. I found out that day how fast my body could go into the shape of a plank. Capacitors are serious business, and yes they should all have bleed resistors on them. In fact, that's most likely why the MP2 stopped at ~48v with the precharge, I suspect that was the point where the current from the precharge cap balanced against the capacitor's bleed resistors.

[@PavolFilek]

Also I am very curious, if this machine has settings for all kinds of batteries, LTO, LMO, NCA, NMC432, NMC811, NMC9 1/2 1/2, LFP and NIBs. A lot of stuff from Victron E. have only 7 kinds of Pb batteries.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I only use LFP so I didn't look. If you need a specific chemistry, I suspect you'll be able to confirm that it's supported in the manual, which I am 99% sure you can download as a PDF.

[@aloislux4322]

What a wonderful Cable Salad!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Haha! "Cable salad", I love it.

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

Hi T-D-M, ... Back to BATTERIES = YAY !~ COOP ...

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

It's been nice playing with angry pixies again!

[@frejaresund3770]

There was a bunch of times I got the urge to mansexplaining, but you figured it out by your self. Thank you for that.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I appreciate the patience, Frej!

[@johnallen3555]

you can get a remote panel to control the inverter. (AND specify the max draw from shore power or generator)

[@loucinci3922]

Enjoyed the video. Thanks for sharing.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thanks for watching, Lou

[@patrickdk77]

Thing about absobsion based on current is, those devices assume you are ONLY charging a battery and have no DC loads, where the multiplus assumes you will have DC loads, so that current could be charging batteries or powering other things via DC.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Hrm, that's a very fair point. The loads would make it impossible to know what's a load and what's charge absorbency... Perhaps a "one-shot" option for top-balancing, where you could say "for the next charge cycle, stop on amperage", and then it returns to time-based. I suppose the number of people who'd actually use that feature would be pretty low though.

[@compfixer44]

If doing continuous load on 20amp circuit, or any circuit for that matter, just like ev charging, only use 80% of available amps. So 16amps on 20amp circuit. Prevents wires from overheating for long continuous loads, potentially prevents breaker from premature failure too. If i remember correctly, NEC I believe considers anything over 3 hours continuous. Love your videos and kitty chaos, I mean cuddles 😊

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

The way I do it is that I aim for 1% voltage drop over whatever run I'm doing, instead of the usual 3%. I also tend to oversize my connectors/lugs, specifically so that pulling closer to rated is less likely to be a problem. That said, you'll note that in the math I was doing in the video, I kept down-rating my numbers (ie; assuming 90% efficiency instead of 95%, rounding down from 3450w to 3000w, etc). Your points are valid, absolutely, but I try to push things via inherent safety factors. All this said though, if I plug into a sketch power point, I'll down-rate for the sake of the supply more than anything on the boat. :)

[@Rostol]

oh wow. 9:13 Is the temperature here device temperature or ambient temperature (65C would be in a very very hot engine room?) cos for some reason this is the 1st time I see the Watts/ deg C chart and I just assumed I'd get 8kw continuous from my 2 multiplus IIs. are you also gogin to put up solar panels ? lol, I ALWAYS say someone has to serve as warning to others "look at how X ended up..."

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I do plan to have solar, but my boat is a canoe-stern type, so not a wide cockpit. I'm hoping to have enough solar to offset house loads. I don't expect the solar to be enough to meaningfully charge my batteries.

[@jimr2053]

All of those exposed battery connections made me really nervous. Is there some cheap rubber or plastic cover you could cover each one with? A stray, dropped, flying etc. metal object could make a big mess in an instant, maybe a coat hanger from the laundry, fumbled tool or whatever. Such an incident on the actual boat might be more probable on a boat in rough water. Just a "what could go wrong" thought. Also, are you thinking of beefing up the mounting of that unit? It looks just sufficient for a land based application but 32kg supported by 2 screws when the forces are the wrong way (rough seas again) seems completely insufficient. Love your videos, thank you.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

This is all temporary while I figure out what I'll do on the boat. The final install will leave nothing exposed.

[@AmyMrsR]

We call that 'Cat Rule'-legitimately, a cat in the lap is fair reason to not get up and take care of any request 😂While you were on the boat, I could hear the halyard on someone's mast and the tug in my soul was big. Hopefully soon the boat will be in the water and, Im way overdue for a visit :) I'd say its Greek to me but Greek I could look up 😁 I applaud you powering your way through this and learning it all!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

It's funny... Halyard slap is both annoying as hell, yes somehow comforting... I so miss being on the water! I'm looking forward to taking you out on a sail!

[@AmyMrsR]

@@TheDigitalMermaid I'm looking forward to it as well :)

[@nigelcharles511]

FWIW with my Multiplus 2, on continuous high loads the fan was insufficient to avoid overheat cut outs in warm weather in the UK. I overcame this using a ducted bilge blower. I used the one internal relay to control the switching of this fan.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

In the part of the video where I was in the lazarette, I pointed up above the shelf as a place that I might put it. If I do, I would run a 3" / 7.5cm hose along the top to one of the cowls behind the cockpit to vent the air. The other cowl is fresh air intake, which I'll run down to the bilge area of the engine bay. That should do a good job of exhausting the hot air, and I can tie the fan to a temp sensor to have it come on automatically.

[@rozarijorodin]

Don't worry what other people saying... You will have your dream boat working just fine after everything is done... Many people don't understand electric vehicle, how do you expect for some of them understand electric boat? Total support... Enjoy...

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thanks for the kind message, Rozari. I know it'll be all good in the end, and I'm quite comfortable with pushing through nay-sayers. :)

[@deanf9429]

Thanks for the video

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thanks for watching, Dean!

[@loucinci3922]

Miss May is so adorable. Too cute

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

She's amazing!

[@Ross_MC]

That cat! There is enough juice in there to make that an unlucky fried kitten! Also I feel you on the heft of that multiplus unit. I got mine recently (amazing how different ours are, 230v vs 120v) but opted to mount it at head height. Much regret.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

The voltages are low enough and the resistance of kitty beans is high enough that I know there's little risk of cooked kitty. Just the same, I want her to know that walking on / playing with electrics is never allowed. When we're on the boat, chances of her paws being wet will be a lot higher (though by then all the components at any voltage potential should be covered).

[@Ross_MC]

@@TheDigitalMermaid it's when they start licking the terminals you need to start worrying! 😊

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@Ross_MC haha, for sure.

[@Electronzap]

Nice project.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thanks, EZ!

[@twistedtreeroad]

Did you ever measure the standby consumption on the quattro? Mine (8kva) draws twice the specified power.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I did not, no.

[@SteveRowe]

You are very strong. 💪

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thanks, Steve! Hopefully I'll get stronger still once I'm working the sheets regularly.

[@PavolFilek]

Beautiful kitty. I would prefer Quattro. I think, that cooling 2 toroids is better than one. And this standby / AES consumption is really optimistic. Reality will be different. A lot of people have on AC side ele. meter, some relays and contractors, some RCDs, all this will consume some power.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Interesting take on the cooling, I'll have to see how it behaves in the boat.

[@virgilius68]

I got this small dc generator, works great and cheap too

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

What make/model?

[@warrior9086]

It´s not only the Inverter. Things add up. I think the StandBy power consumption of solar charged systems need a lot more attention. This is especially true when the boats are smaller. The spread between power demand and space to produce it is getting bigger and bigger with all the electronics for control

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I'll have to keep an eye on what the MPPTs consume after dark then.

[@npc6352]

18:02 is a common mode choke. And the coil @ 15:10 is a toroidal transformer.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Reading up on that now...

[@Sailingon]

Every time I see that battery bank im in aw. Im working on making a duel hall effect throttle for my motors. Just finding 180º hall effects at a reasonable price in the uk is a pain. loads in the US. ill have to pay the extra for the added reliability compaired to pots. making it look pretty is the hard part for me everything i make looks like mad max

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I've been working on protoboards to make my own helm system less of a rats nest. Clean up has to be seen as a valid part of a project that needs and deserves time, I think. On the two pots; how will you decide how to handle disagreeing values? When I was considering it, I figured I would need three (discard the outlier, average the other two).

[@murphyproject28]

hi. it's funny because when I was rebuilding my boat I made a compartiment for the generator and in the and I decide to don't have it on my my boat instead having more solar and battery and after 3 years I never regret my decision... and by the way you are great....

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

This is very encouraging to read!

[@murphyproject28]

@@TheDigitalMermaid instead of have my focus on range, motor power and other technical stuf I chose to make a brand new set of sail including gennaker and a Code 0 and learn to sail instead of turn on the motor every time there is somenthing not "easy".... my advice is buy a "code 0" you will never regret, it's a life saver (and battery)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@murphyproject28 Once I'm in the water, I'll need to really sit down and think about my sail plan. There are times where unfavourable winds are unrelenting and being able to motor is a lovely luxury, but yes in the end, these are sailboats.

[@murphyproject28]

@@TheDigitalMermaid of course I’m not saying that my way is the only right way… everyone have different ways to live, to sail and to do anything… but at some point if you are not rich (really) you have to reduce your “luxury” because also a diesel engine with 1000 gallons fuel at some point will not be enough…. So in the end you just have to decide where’s your “enough”…. Also if you think long therm you will need all these power 3 times a year in worst scenario…. Maybe will be just easier wait for beter conditions or learn to dance the music you get…. In the begin I was scared that the motor will not be enough and also the battery and in 3 years I NEVER use the motor at more than 30% of his power. I have 2 batteries 72V 100ah I never use more than 40 ah of one battery…. Do what makes you feel safe but don’t be to scared wat you are doing is more than enough and really good made… You must be proud….

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@murphyproject28 Curious, what made you choose 72v? What do you use to charge it? Are they LFP cells?

[@loucinci3922]

Hey Orange sweater!!!!!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

It was fun to pull it out, but I really need to fix the elbow...

[@MarkRose1337]

36:16 It would be the DC side. AC reverses polarity 100 to 120 times per second

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I figured it meant more having the neutral and hot on the AC side reversed?

[@MarkRose1337]

@@TheDigitalMermaid It could tell that if the ground is also connected. But as far as the AC current is concerned between hot and neutral, they're the same. So that warning is about the DC side.

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

At some stage in the near future generators will take a massive drop in size wt and noise corresponding in a 30%+jump in efficiency and multifule adaptability.. The project to watch is the Liquid piston rotary and the Durham universisty reciprocating free piston generator .... both far far smaller and lighter than current designs.. simpler as well. The

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

We're living in a time of rapid change thanks to massive investments in energy generation R&D. It's also why I've held off buying solar panels for the boat... I'll hold off on the generator and solar until I actually need them, to see what comes along.

[@CoquiAudio]

wow that is huge toroidal transformer! 😮😗

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I swear, it has to be like 28kg of the 32kg the unit weights. It's CHONKY!

[@dama054]

Did you have issues with the quattros

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Nope, it ran fine.

[@dama054]

@TheDigitalMermaid why the change I haven't watched the video yet in hospital with my old dad will watch later

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@dama054 Briefly; A friend is converting a larger boat and really needed the dual inputs the quattro offered. I thought the MP2 was lighter, but I was wrong. That said, the MP2 is more efficient, so I am ok with it (especially knowing it helped a friend). Good luck with your father!

[@dama054]

@TheDigitalMermaid thanks I'm sure he will be fine, just asking as I am looking at getting 2 quattros myself and the see this and think am I making a mistake

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@dama054 Not at all, the quattro and MP2 scratch different itches.

[@guyejumz6936]

I have a Multiplus-I 24/5000. It's a good unit, but the idle consumption is not as good as the Multiplus-II's. It also doesn't have the remote current sensor option, which is helpful for additional flexibility in one-legged setups. I don't need either of those things, but I'm still jealous of your Multiplus-II. One thing I don't like on the II is they got rid of the lugs on the AC side. I feel like lugs and terminal crimps are unbeatable in terms of ease and reliability.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I have to agree with you, I prefer the nut-and-bolt approach.

[@dc1544]

A portable generator can hookup to the shore power plug. It just wont put out as many amps.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Those also run on gasoline/petrol, which I won't have onboard. If/when I add a generator, it'll be diesel, as I'll have that anyway for the diesel heater.

[@douglasrobbie9998]

Q- if (big if) you are going to have solar panels on your sailboat, why not get a hybrid inverter that has MPPT, inverter and shorepower charging in one package? Admittedly, you would want one with low idle draw.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

The plan is to have independent, small MPPTs for the few panels I'll have. Probably the 100/20s, _maybe_ 150/30s.

[@douglasrobbie9998]

@@TheDigitalMermaid Based on that, will you be relying on regen from prop to charge battery bank? The mppts/pv panels you noted will not charge a large bank very much and I assume you will not be plugging in (marinas, city docks) most of the time. I have not followed all of your videos so perhaps I missed part of the electric conversion plans.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@douglasrobbie9998 Regen off the prop while sailing is the planned primary way to sail, ya. In past videos, I've talked about this a fair bit, and chose the Kelly controllers, in large part, because of their extensive documentation and discussion in those docs around configuring for regen.

[@douglasrobbie9998]

@@TheDigitalMermaid Observation- Many cruisers find they spend 10-20% of time to sail/motor to a location and then spend 80-90% at the desired location and, if on a budget, they are anchored with no access to shore power. For the long stays at anchor, they generate adequate power each day from PV or they run a generator. Since you won't have a generator, you will be relying on your large battery bank having been charged sailing plus some limited PV input. Many cruisers have found they needed to add more PV to meet their energy needs. I'm sure you've done some daily energy calcs in earlier episodes, but do they include, let's say, 7 days at anchor w 5 cloudy/2 somewhat sunny days? Cruisers can stay in one place for considerable time due to poor windy weather or wind coming from wrong direction. Mostly want to make sure you don't have to go on no-destination sailing in such conditions just to charge up batteries via regen. Sorry about length.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@douglasrobbie9998 The plan is to have the solar sufficient to offset the house loads. The size of the battery is large enough that I can go many days with bad weather while on the hook and not run out. If I run low, then I can go for a sail to help recharge the batteries (if it's overcast / poor solar, then there's probably good wind).

[@andreyv3609]

Got worried seeing you making those dc connections. Please get the torque wrench and torque to spec, especially the high current connections

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

This is all about to be torn down, and for this test/charge, the highest current was about 30A. I'm confident the connections were tight enough to handle this for a short time.

[@mannyfragoza9652]

what's the total cost of the whole system ? BTW im sure alot of subs cant wait to see the video when something goes down.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I've been piecing the system together for over three years now, and a lot of prices have changes, especially the batteries. What do you mean by "when something goes down"?

[@mannyfragoza9652]

@@TheDigitalMermaid when somthing fails The reason i proposed that staement is that is an extremely complex setup and may take you a month of sundays to figure what part of the system failed.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@mannyfragoza9652 If you haven't seen yet, Ep. 11 (Boxes and Booms) was my first "big mistake", and ironically, it was the video that got my channel off the ground. It's an irony of youtube that a creator having a Bad Day can weirdly be helpful to the channel. That said, I'd never intentionally make a mistake, this gear is too expensive and too energetic. All this said, the reason I am building all of this myself is so that I can learn from my mistakes while safely on land. When things go wrong out at sea, I want to know that I'll be ready and able to fix them.

[@mannyfragoza9652]

@@TheDigitalMermaid well lim jealous i wish had your ability and BTW you put together quite a system. Im sure Off Grid Garage would be proud.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@mannyfragoza9652 Andy is a wonderful gent! It was a video of his that made me get the T-class fuse that saved me that day. After the accident, I emailed him to thank him for sharing his videos, and explained that it saved me from a big mistake. He mentioned my then very new channel, and a lot of his viewers came to watch my channel. That's why that accident helped get my channel off the ground. :)

[@gemrough]

8:00 😜

[@cristof48]

Ho !!! in France the actuel price for a multiplus II 5000/70 is around 1000 euros

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I suspect it's a question of volume. Given how most of their products are 230v/50Hz, I bet they sell ten 230v models for any one 120v model.

[@Coxeysbodgering]

Re Miss May's addiction to cables that may move, try a mix of citrus oil and hot pepper oil or infused. Smell alone should her off and a taste or 2 definitely will. My dad had use mustard and horseradish when our working dogs were in heat, when we had bring the boy (and son of one bitch) indoors to stopp him trying to chew his way out, he was a randy little whatsit his whole life, any bitch in heat in the village (even visiting walkers) he'd turn into Houdini! Keep up the great work and contact

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I've heard of that trick, but so far I've always been able to teach my kitties pretty early on to leave wires alone. She's just still in that kitten phase. If I spice up the wires, I 100% would rub my eyes at the wrong time eventually...

[@Coxeysbodgering]

@TheDigitalMermaid deep heat (Raljax over there?) menthol vapour rubs and many other farm related nasties have been accidentally transferred to inconvenient places!

[@KevIsOffGrid]

I'd have saved the thousand, then spend 1000 on a separate charger - one that will do a range of voltages, 100-250v and frequencies especially if you want to travel outside north America. Just more flexibility, use one, both, or plug one into 1 marina supply, and the other into a separate supply - another way to double the charge rate - have 2 shore hook ups :)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Which one would you have gotten? One of the appeals of this is that both the charger and inverter are in one unit, saving space on the boat.

[@KevIsOffGrid]

I shut my inverter off at 2.95v/cell - which depending on load at the time is between 8-12% SOC - to save DC stuff water pumps/lights/usb's

[@dennisbrok9335]

Yes way more expensive then in eu damnz we don’t really go over 10 amps 240 volts on most shore outlets 😢

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

North America is a silly place for power. :)

[@dennisbrok9335]

@@TheDigitalMermaid with 2 inputs you could have run 2 lines to shore for double power

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@dennisbrok9335 That would allow for 2x 30A to hit the 70A charge current, ya. I also thought about 2x 3000VA to parallel for two shore connections, also. In the end, I figured the number of times I'd find 50A plugs wouldn't be enough to justify the additional weight/space on the boat. All this said, your point is valid and I should have brought it up in the video. So thanks for pointing that out.

[@jimthvac100]

The fan is way louder on the Multiplus-II than the Quatro, especially under load. Being on a boat You might regret that decision.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

That'll be interesting to see, and might be a reason to put it deeper into the lazarette.

[@iceblue72wot]

No one reflected that all its electronics are extremely vulnerable and complicated and very expensive compared to a simple marine diesel engine.🤔

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

It's a different kind of complexity. On my tip home (~800 nautical miles), I broke down when debris got past the filter and jammed open the check value on the fuel pump. I got stranded when the alternator didn't work and the batteries dropped to 4v. I got stranded when the impeller I installed before the trip tore apart and over heated the engine. Diesels have a lot of vulnerabilities; Oil, temp, fuel, etc. Diesel bug is something you have to keep on top of, combustion chamber pressure needs to be within a certain range, etc. etc. The difference is that electric is new, diesel is well established. So electric concerns are fresh, and diesel concerns are all but ignored. It's like how people will be nervous about flying, but not think twice about getting in the car to drive to the airport. In my case, I'll have two separate motors, each with their own controller, contactor, etc. I'll have six independent batteries, any one of which could fail and I'd only lose 1/6th of my range/capacity. I'm developing the helm controls, with the help of others here, and the designs are being shared publicly as open source/open hardware, so it can be improved by anyone. No vendor lock-in, and anyone with the skills can fix it anywhere. What _looks_ complicated is that this is still in development. What you're seeing in this video is the development stage, and all of it will be taken apart and cleaned up before going in the boat. If people knew how complex (and small!) a lot of the internals in diesel engines are, they could make the same argument that it's all too complex with too many things to go wrong. And sure enough, go to any anchorage or marina and ask how many of the boats there have or recently had engine troubles, and see how many hands go up. Don't let something looking different from what you're used to trick you into thinking it must therefor be worse.

[@lonnymoore2622]

but its a cat thing. if they fit they sit !!! all cats even my bratty little girl will do that . just like furring up your clothing . if you lay your clothing out they will lay on it to get it propperly furred up . your making awesome progress with that boat keep up the amazing work !

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I abandoned all hope ages ago about not having fur in and on everything I own. Worth it. :)

[@lonnymoore2622]

@@TheDigitalMermaid so very true

[@mikedurham4448]

[@rklauco]

Hey, I have 3 of these babies :)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Kitties or MP2s?

[@rklauco]

@@TheDigitalMermaid Not a pet person :) The MP2 in 3phase config :) Carrying them up on ladder was fun :)

[@mickey4947]

A cat is always on the wrong side of a door. It's a law.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Indeed!

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy MADI, so ... SIZE "matters" ? LOL I'll betcha' the DIMENSIONS were listed on the WEBSITE ??? COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA, USA ... Fresh back from a L O N G WeekEND in Ingersoll, Ontario, CANADA ...

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

They were, but I read the specs for the 3000VA model by mistake. :)

[@SteveRowe]

OMgee kitten!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

She's SO ADORABLE! OMG it hurts sometimes

[@i24714s]

Lithium batteries are very dangerous, there were cases when the house burned down due to improper charging and ignition of the battery (for AGM batteries there were no such cases, they just swell, no other consequences). AGM gives the strongest current for the starter, even a 7A 12V battery gives 100A during a short circuit, I personally saw how the insulation of the wire in my hands began to melt and the insulation began to drip onto the floor, I accidentally short-circuited the wires. For lithium, the correct charge-discharge modes are important and if the situation is non-standard, then the battery sharply loses capacity and is not restored. And it can catch fire. For AGM, there are no such problems. A hint for AGM - you need to pour 100 ml of distilled water into each jar once a year, then the battery will live a long time, up to 8 years. For AGM, you can increase the voltage during charging and discharge it strongly, the consequences are weak, the main thing is to quickly charge the battery.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

You're thinking of cobalt-based Li-ion chemistries, like NMC. LiFePO4 doesn't catch fire in thermal runaway, it only swells. This is true for overcharging, puncturing, etc. It's just as safe as AGM. You have to add distilled water because it is released as hydrogen during charing, which can explode. LFP doesn't have this problem. As for start current, the only reason LFP are limited is because of the BMSes being used, not because of the cells directly. The BMSes that use contactors can dump significant power. Please, before posting about the dangers of a battery, know what chemistry you're talking about. This creates needless fear in new users.

[@i24714s]

@@TheDigitalMermaid Unfortunately, LiFePO4 explode, and it is impossible to extinguish them, it develops like an avalanche, look at KZbin, the house burns down completely. There are also many cases of electric scooters catching fire on the street while driving, they only have LiFePO4. In order to prevent a fire during charging, balancers must be installed on each battery, you do not have them, I do not see them, but even they do not provide a full guarantee. When recharging, LiFePO4 swell, do you have a reliable box? Also, water ingress is dangerous for LiFePO4, I do not know the result, probably also a fire. When the battery voltage drops below 2.8V, they die and are not restored. These are very dangerous batteries, they cannot be used for extreme situations. The most super reliable are AGM. For example, my UPS discharged my 24V AGM batteries to 6V overnight and do you know what happened? Nothing. What kind of batteries are installed in data centers at Internet providers? AGM. They have very strict requirements for the reliability of the equipment. Regarding hydrogen for AGM, you have incorrect information, hydrogen accumulates only in a sealed box, I have never seen such a design, under normal ventilation conditions the concentration is negligible. For some time, I was servicing AGM and studied their features well, it is difficult to kill. And for LARGE discharge currents (for example, a starter), they are the best. I have now bought batteries for UPS, I studied information about LiFePO4 for a long time and bought AGM, I do not want a fire in the house.

[@mvdb5150]

You read the specs of the RS6000… new tech

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

What is / who makes the "RS6000"? Googling turns up the IBM RS/6000, which I kinda doubt that's what you mean. :)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Oh, do you mean the Victron RS Smart Solar 6000VA inverter? If so, I need the charger side more than the inverter side for shore-power connection charging.

[@mvdb5150]

@@TheDigitalMermaid the Multi RS Solar 48/6000

[@mvdb5150]

I’m building an overland rig using this One

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@mvdb5150 It doesn't support a shore power connection though, does it?

[@cdonuts7335]

What a rats nest of wiring, just a sign of a complete lack of planning and system layout! I have in my time removed and replaced many inverters that have been mounted on wood with many having discoloration and even scorch marks behind them. Definitely not what you want to mount any electrical equipment that generates heat on. Just an unsafe system all-round! Honestly videos like this should come with a warning that its not constructed to any code and there is risk of injury or death if you try to duplicate it! Imagine being the one responsible for someone losing everything!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Can you point out what parts of this test system is dangerous? Is it the undersized wiring? I checked the voltage drop for all runs against Southwire's calculator. Is it the wire, ring terminals, Anderson connectors, bus bars, T-class fuses, all marine grade, that isn't up to standard? Is it the Multiplus-II not have the required ventilation for it's fan to be able to cool it? Is it the voltage, with everything being under 60vDC and so "low voltage"? If you've watched my previous videos, you'd know this is a temporary setup while I figure out what I will be doing on the boat, and not the final config. Do you see the wires and think that, because the wires aren't pinned and dressed, that it must therefor be a dangerous setup? Please, point to specifics and I will happily take valid criticism.

[@john_in_phoenix]

Top cover should really come off once a year (minimum) to let you use a vacuum or canned air to clean out the dust. Electronics run better and dissipate heat better when clean. I'm sure you already knew that. Cats are great for mental health.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Well, yes and no... The dust is a concern when either it's conductive (rarely a concern), or gets thick enough to act as insulation. I've done server sysadmin my entire career, and I've seen some pretty caked up machines still running fine. Obviously, a clean machine is great and I wouldn't discourage anyone from cleaning their machines, just so long as they knew how to do so safely. Big power devices like this though, they can be dangerous for folks who don't know what could hurt them.

[@john_in_phoenix]

​@@TheDigitalMermaid Yes, I think I have done it a bit longer than you...... 😢 NASA used to require it once a year, but that was 40 years ago. At White Sands we did it every 6 months, it really depends on the environment and how long you want the equipment to last. Higher voltages require it more often.

[@NordicKölsch]

2500 CAD for a MP2 wauw! in Europe its €750 for a MP2

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Aye, it hurt. I suspect they probably sell ten 230v models for each one 120v... At least for the 5000VA models.

[@NordicKölsch]

@@TheDigitalMermaid right. Didn't think of the 120v, too imprinted in my mind to only use 230v. Keep up the work 💪🏻

[@MarkRose1337]

11 watts while on is a big deal. That's 264 Wh/day, and if you get 4 hours of good solar a day, that's 64 watts of solar panel being wasted. Every watt counts!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Exactly why I was so happy about this difference. I'm designing around the idea that if I save watts where ever I can, it'll make a noticable difference over the build.

[@Raphael_Hofmann]

Reboot the Cerbo GX and the touch screen comes back ;)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Tried that, worked for a short time and stopped working again. Replacement screen is behaving the same.

[@Raphael_Hofmann]

@@TheDigitalMermaid It could be corrotion or dirt in the HDMI or USB connector. USB is only for power delivery. The signals for Touch and Display go over HDMI. You could power the display from a 5V USB power supply, just to see if the 5V supply fom the Cerbo GX is fine. Cleaning the HDMI contacts would be step two.

[@JunitafluxcyfatriciaJunita]

Sodium ion batteries are coming next year and the price of the batteries will be reduced by half Overnight

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Maybe? The prices have already dropped a lot since I bought these. In any case, sodium ion cells are not as energy dense, so in a use case like mine, where space is tight, LFP is still better.

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

omg

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

omg what specifically? Mae's unending cuteness? That makes me go omg 'all the time.

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

@@TheDigitalMermaid Took me a while to see what was going on. We could play nerds together but you seem smarter than me.

[@lonnymoore2622]

but anythings a toy to a kitty cat . but cats do grow up so quick . perhaps either a plastic drop cloth or yoga mat woud keep the kitty safe from the voltage

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I'm already working on the box for the boat that the batteries will go in. So they won't be on the floor much longer.

[@lonnymoore2622]

@@TheDigitalMermaid ok still awesome

[@lonnymoore2622]

@@TheDigitalMermaid ok cool im glad that way you wont have to keep cat sitting for the fluff balls safety even if it is adorable to watch .

[@oleksipro]

There is my experience with Victron kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4qtXnufo72seq8si=ehcwO4kU1tQALX76

[@SylwerDragon]

Nice video. To be honest i think you wasted time with this new unit. Search mode and this very low power mode is not likely by used for few reason. In case you will be there you can just switch it off and use DC power only this way you will save the most. Ofc in case you will have All your electric such as laptops, lights and such on DC 48Volt power with exceptions such as microwave or similar. Outside of that. Multi has disadvantage that you can't connect it in parallel quatro can be connected but in your system that isn't problem at all.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

My understanding (perhaps wrong?) is that you can parallel MP2s. In any case, for a larger vessel or for a home install, your comments paralleling is an important factor to consider. In a case like mine, I'd not really have the space or weight balance to justify two large units. That said, it did cross my mind to get 2x 3000VA MP2s to parallel, and provide charge redundancy. Space just is too tight though, given I already need to account for a future 230v version. As for DC charging, your point is valid. When I did the trip with Rhys earlier this year, I went two solid weeks charging off USB only, and I was surprised how effective it was. I'll need the inverter for cooking, and being absent minded, I am sure I'll forget to turn it off (or I'll leave it in search mode most of the time).

[@SylwerDragon]

@@TheDigitalMermaid As far as i know you can't parallel them for more power for more power ther eis quatro. of phoenix ones.. ofc if you want to use one for 120V and second one for another 120V that isn't exactly parralel connection but i'm not sure of that so that might work. Personally i wanted to have two 10Kw units parralel for 20kW total 240V and that isn't possible as far as i know as least with these new ones. anyway there is also DC/DC charger/converter from Victron I'm using 48/24V for some other stuff that one is on 24/365 and it is pretty good. and reliable

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

​@@SylwerDragon I just pulled up the specs, and it says you can parallel, split-phase and three-phase configure multiple MP2s. The link to the MP2 spec sheet is in the video description, if you'd like to cross-check also.

[@SylwerDragon]

@@TheDigitalMermaid Yes you are correct. I'm not sure where i find it I would have to look where it said it isn't possible to do it. but for Multi -II it is possible. Good to know. Thanks for info :)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@SylwerDragon Cheers!

[@burza1204]

are you sure that you are girl?😆🤣❤💪

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

One of my top goals is to show that women and girls can do anything. One of the best compliments I ever got was from a grand dad who watches my videos with his grand daughter.

[@jeffmoose495]

americans dont understand irony, obvs.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@jeffmoose495 Oh?

[@georgeskamagas5476]

Questions millions, answers immediately ,bla bla bla bla .Next time less talk .

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

When you sign my checks, you can tell me how to make videos. Until then, feel free to not watch.

[@georgeskamagas5476]

@TheDigitalMermaid well I say (let's see a woman in action ) and all the idea was rong .Of course skip next time....

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

You want to see "a woman in action", demand she change how she makes videos to suit you, and act offended when called out for it? Impressive.