Ep. 105 - The 86 kwh Battery Doesn't Fit

[@ritchycamaro]

Impressed with your woodworking and patience. But what a bummer its difficult to fit. Building vs fitting always trial and error. But succes is revenge! Good luck Maddy!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

"Success is revenge", I love that!

[@ritchycamaro]

@TheDigitalMermaid Haha! Btw i am now on holliday with RV in Santiago de Compostella northern spain. Beautiful here, but 2° celcius brrr. But the home made lithium battery is working fine!

[@lonnymoore2622]

lol i absolutly love that cat . that cat adds so so so much humor to your videos now . its great to see there curiosity and how they bring a smile to your face .

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I was being totally serious when I said she's the star of the show now :3

[@lonnymoore2622]

@@TheDigitalMermaid lol i can see that she is absolutly adorable

[@duingstuff]

Glad you did a test fit in the early stages. Worse is to get the box finished and it not work.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Yup! That's the main point of this video, really. It's all about setup and testing before you commit to the big / expensive tasks. It's so tempting to just go for it and if you do, and run into trouble, oooooph it hurts so much more.

[@olafschermann1592]

Welcome to the club. I fitted a self build LifePo4 battery into my sailboat. And man - was that a work to make it fit. Wanted to put it into a watertight box - but the opentings were too small to get the box thru. So i assembled the battery inside the tiny space. Needed to go down to 12.5kwh to make it fit. But i am happy that i have double the capacity and half the weight and space compared to my AGM batteries. And that just for USD 1.400.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

LFP really is a game changer

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

Thanks AGAIN COOP ...

[@frejaresund3770]

Thank heavens for the cat so I don't have to get shamed by someone better than me. Keep the good content up.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Haha! ^_^

[@blah666]

Thanks so much for sharing! Wishing you and the cats a wonderful holiday season...

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thank you for watching, and happy holidays to you as well!

[@SteveRowe]

Your kitten is getting huge!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

She is growing SO FAST!

[@vinny142]

I totally missed what she said when that kitten was around, because KITTEN!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@vinny142 I mean, totally fair.

[@richbowie76]

I very much enjoyed this weird stuff !

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I enjoy making it! :D

[@Thorupjens]

After teaching about how a tape measure works. I had hoped, the box would fit in your boat. I don’t know what went wrong, but it was a little funny to see your face.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I've since realized (I think) what I did wrong. I measured to the edge of the bulkhead (far side where the muffler was). I was thinking I could cut the muffler stand out, but then realized it wouldn't help as the bulkhead for the quarter berth is above it. So it means I left a decent amount of port-side space than I realized.

[@LadyDewBuild]

a) I love watching you work b) I love watching your brain work c) Screw wood working, gimme steel every time, d) Kitty!!!!!!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Haha! a) Thanks for watching! b) Oh dear, you might want to talk to a shrink about that. c) You need way too much energy to glue metal together... Though I admit, you can stretch metal better than wood. d) She's the bestest!

[@LadyDewBuild]

@@TheDigitalMermaid b) my therapist gets me, and probably you ;)

[@escheytt9326]

Appreciate your tenacity and good nature while up against such challenges. I know how it is to have to work without the optimal tools. Stay positive and objective will be achieved. Half of the enjoyment and personal satisfaction is working toward the goal. Regards Ed

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Good tools are nice and make jobs easier, but ya, they’re not needed. :)

[@walle226]

awesome stuff :)

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thanks, Walle!

[@jimsvideos7201]

The offset on your circular saw appears to 5 5/32”, if you’re ever stuck using inches. Also, your well-dressed shop supervisor is gorgeous.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Noted, and aye, she is an absolute star ^_^

[@mwolrich]

I love how May just sits their watching you intently, lol.. like she’s trying to learn Kitty Carpentry 😬

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Aye! I can't wait to see how she handles being on the boat. I can see her sitting up on that little step on the bowsprit watching the fishies for hours

[@dfhepner]

I use a drywall t-square that breaks down to a straight edge. Then I mark my circular saw with offset to each side with a sharpie. That way I can add that to the measurements for making cuts using the straight edge

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I've looked at those nice t-squares for the drywall work I was doing. I couldn't quite justify it before, but I do have an idea for a DIY sled one of the patreons on discord recommended. So I might showcase that soon if I get to make it. :)

[@Electronzap]

Nice project.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Thanks my friend!

[@jimsvideos7201]

Looking at the space this box is going into, consider thinking of it as a box with a front for access. That way you can seal the top against drips, but still have access to get the cells in and out.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

That's exactly the plan, with the lazarette side being the access side. I need to do this to load the cells in the first place.

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy T-D-M, ... Hi MADI - glad to SEE You the BAREFOOT Carpenter ! COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

The great thing about this boat project is that it has me drawing on so many different past hobbies!

[@rkeantube]

do some CAD, cardboard aided design, lots of cardboard, a marker and good pair of scissor will help with mockup before cutting of materials, i always try and make a mockup in cardboard before i really do it. saved me many times

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Originally I was going to, but I wanted to validate that my tongue / lip setup was going to work also, and I couldn't simulate that well with cardboard.

[@electrowizard2000]

Neither disappointing nor a disaster.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Heh, thanks :)

[@BajanAlan]

I read a article once that said DRY honing was best cause liquid catches small chips and gouges the chisel!

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I'd be very interested to see that, if you happen to find it again. KZbin deletes comments with links, so drop me an email (address in the About tab) if you happen to find it!

[@lonnymoore2622]

as for the box perhaps break the batteries up to smaller packs that are more spread out and just have heavy links so you can have a bit more room and control over the batteries .

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I've thought about that, but even a single pack will take up a fair bit of space, and I don't have that much available elsewhere in the boat. It's really the engine bay or bust.

[@lonnymoore2622]

@@TheDigitalMermaid i can understand that is there a way to make the box in two parts then just spread it out a bit more so its not as tall . with some acomidation for the electric motor for driving the boat?

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@lonnymoore2622 I've thought about it quite a bit, and so far I've not been able to think of an alternative that doesn't introduce at least as many problems as it solves. If I just can't make this box work, then I'll have to start over and see what options I can come up with.

[@lonnymoore2622]

@@TheDigitalMermaid ok well i hope you figure it out and i cant wait to see what you come up with . are you able to remove the gas tank and use that location for the batteries ?

[@lonnymoore2622]

granted though i didn't rember if you already removed it or not . what about putting the batteries on the deck as benches it just means roughing the wires through the boat and sealing the boxes.

[@KevIsOffGrid]

Couldn't quite see the issues at the rear, only the front where its sticking out, but hopefully enough margin to make the box shorter. If the final shot of asleep kitty also had all the cells that looked enough margin to trim. Remember to factor in the extra thickness of the actual box with thicker wood (I think you said this was cheaper thinner ply for the proto) if you are down to mm's of clearances

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I'll be using white oak, and so the panel thickness is what I will actually use on the boat. Thankfully, the strength of white oak is significantly higher than cheap plywood. :)

[@alan-sk7ky]

Drink yer tea, it's getting cold...

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Haha, ya, it got cold. I tend to focus to the exclusion of all else.

[@BajanAlan]

I think Leo said 28 degree is a good compromise

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

28 degrees with what? I'm sorry, I'm not sure the context.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Oh, do you mean chisel angle?

[@bdaddy355]

Instead of measuring your guide board for the motor side of saw, I always measure from the blade side to guide then it would not be an issue of hitting clamps. My saw is only an inch to guide?

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I've tried that in the past and I find that the weight of the saw hanging over the cut-side makes it harder to control the tilt of the blade, particularly towards the end of the cut. For stronger folks who use these saws all the time (or just have stronger arms) that probably works a treat.

[@harrisji]

How about you cutting off the corners so you have a 'six sided' box on the Hull side of the box?

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

The current plan will have me removing the buffer I left (where the BMSes and switches were going to go). So the outer shell will be just big enough for the cells, so there's literally no more corners to cut. I _might_ be able to shorten the pack a bit, and if so, raise it up a bit to get more bottom clearance. That'll be what I sort out next.

[@patchmack4469]

if there is one thing i find really dangerous, especially using table saws and planers, please do not use on the floor, while the tool might be steady, you are not, hense the board lifting, it happens too freaquently, the one major rule i have for anyone, working with machinery, tools etc working on things in general, get comfortable, be steady on your feet (thats what they were designed for) and be fully aware of what you are doing, surroundings and distractions, if you have your own rules, don't break them, safety PPE and everything else, safety measures at the ready, fire extinguishers and electrial plugs ready to pull or switch off - i have seen a number of accidents (some waiting to happen where i managed to step in in-time) and others where i have seen the results - if you havn't got a bench, please build your own - routers give me the eeby geebies too fitting to the boat was fun, one of the reasons why i suggested to you soem time back, sit in the boat as you likely do and decide what can be removed completely (engine gone check), obviously its easy these days to photograph everything as you go, in case you need to copy wire connections etc, clear everything out of your way, and set to with cardboard (its cheaper to waste then ply) and place everything you need, write on things where you need junction boxes and that kind of thing, work out your spacing - project is coming on nicely and you are doing a fine job, just needs a little organising (my bad and OCD), or at least thats the way it comes across, i know you are organised really

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Aye, not sure if you noticed, but I showed doing a couple test runs where I walked through the cut until I felt comfortable that I knew my movements before actually turning on the saw. If I wasn't moving onto the boat, I would have built one of those portable tables with the table saw with outfeed area, and the flip stand for the miter on one side and thickness planner on the other. My teacher's shop is ALL oldschool gear. No safety or guards anywhere, with kit from the 40s to the 80s for the main big tools. It was drilled into me that safety is on you to get right. As for fitting, ya, as soon as I felt that doubt that it wasn't going to fit, I packed up and went down to the boat (a ~4h minimum trip). There's no substitute for just being there in the real space. As for organization, well, my ADHD is a hell of a thing, so I do my best.

[@teddypreston5525]

How about round corners?

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I'm thinking I'll remove the buffer entirely, and move the BMSes and switches outboard of the main box (with a smaller box on the side to protect them). If I do that, the cells will be up against all four walls with no room left to spare.

[@douglasrobbie9998]

This looks like you are planning on 2 cells stacked vertically. Can you make box in a shape to actually fits the space with 1) all the cells just 1 layer high or 2) most of cells in first layer and have fewer top cells lying flat. Not ideal and you would need wire cable connecting cells that are not in normal row configuration.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

I had very much wanted to avoid a stacked config, but there simply isn't the space for it.

[@gordieconnelly5844]

take a look at making a shooter board works just like a track saw much cheaper i use a foam board as my base so i don't cut the floor or saw horses

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Aye, a patron in discord linked to a video on how to make one. Seems pretty easy, so I'll probably do that in the new year.

[@redrockroger]

Even if you get it to fit, by having all batteries on one side of the boat, haven't you tilted the boat because of all the huge amount of battery weight on one side of the boat?

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

If you mean port/starboard, the main weight is fairly centered, though I will of course check trim. If you mean fore/aft, then ya I'm worried I'm going to be stern-heavy. I've run the numbers and I expect to be about 150~200kg above what I was with the diesel in there. That's the weight of one large adult, so I think I'm ok? I'll have to see and then trim when I go in the water.

[@redrockroger]

@@TheDigitalMermaid Yes, port/starboard. However, it appears to me that the lazarette where you crawled in is very much starboard, not centered. Maybe it is just the filming that makes it appear so.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@redrockroger Ya, it can be hard to get a feel for layout. The packs will sit where the engine was, on the centreline.

[@tonyleverett1483]

Maybe mount the Multiplus on the other side to balance out battery weight?

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@tonyleverett1483 It's pretty centered as it is, but I do have leway to ballast on the port side if needed. I didn't mention in this video, but I've got a decent 12v LFP pack that will likely go under the quarterberth (as I did on the trip home). The Multiplus might fit where the muffler/batteries were before, which would also be port-side.

[@csorrows]

You could have simply made the box out of cardboard to test fit. That would have been a lot easier and been a lot lighter to manage. It's referred to as CAD; cardboard aided design. LOL

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Enough people have said this that I am addressing why I used plywood instead of cardboard. In short, I wanted to test that my cut plan / tongues were right, and spoiler, there's multiple mistakes I caught because I did this is plywood. :)

[@alexanderg.5013]

Rule number one - never trust big machines :D to check if piece is square check for diagonals.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

When I am manually squaring up, that's what I do. :)

[@alexanderg.5013]

@@TheDigitalMermaid but always good to check

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@alexanderg.5013 When I build the final box out of white oak, I absolutely will.

[@johnxrv]

Damm, that is a piano in the ass after all that work. Fell bad for you. But on the positive side, I am sure you are going too finde at good work around and move on, being the kind of person you are. Also sure you was think of a lot of words in the boat that you out of poulietness did not say out Loud.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

"piano in the ass" - hahahaha. Thanks for the kind words, and ya, I've got a decent stubborn streak in me. :)

[@johnxrv]

@TheDigitalMermaid a small typo. But good that it was a funny one. :-)

[@brentperry6301]

consider adding less total ESS- no such thing as a good tight fit, make the space work for you instead. why not cut the cockpit sole out, build the battery in and then add the cockpit sole back in as a removable hatch to service the batteries? I see so many issues on other systems that you need to take servicing into account on- focus on the total solution, not just the battery. Good luck with this.

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

Would you believe this is scaled back? I had a seventh I wanted to include, but cut it because there just wasn't enough space. As for the sole; I went to some effort to get the old engine out without cutting the sole, also. I really don't want to get into that level of refit if I can at all avoid it. For service, I'm setting it up so that the batteries can be fully installed and removed in-situ from the lazarette. Part of the annual(ish) service will be to break down and inspect the packs. The prop tube will be accessible (as you saw me check), and with the diesel tank removed, the rudder stock will be more accessible than it was when it left the factory.

[@bramsoff-grid]

Link to a simple diy tracksaw jig for a regular circlesaw. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamyYqWZr86Ygsksi=bfthFpurTCMcllru

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

One of the folks on discord recommended the exact same video! I'll have to try making that when I get back from visiting family.