Ep. 116 | Choosing the Right Riflescope

[@Dream-season]

I’m eternally grateful for this podcast… it’s the best thing going right now on the Internet

The level of knowledge, articulate presentation and great vocabulary of you three chaps makes these discussions eminently watchable and enjoyable. Your humour and chemistry reminds me of Top Gear before Clarkson, Hammond & May left. I really enjoy your honesty and great analogies. Regarding the “you might think you need more than you actually do” argument, as a motorcyclist and former instructor, I saw the FOMO gene causing many people to fall into the ‘gear’ trap of needing ‘the best’. Typically a person would pass their test and buy a 250-400cc bike and expect to be burning up the road. They’d find themselves being overtaken by bigger bikes and feeling less than confident in the corners. “It’s the bike, it’s not fast enough, big enough or ‘race bred’ enough, I need better” was always the first rationale. Ego wouldn’t let them as it they just needed more time in the saddle and to hone their skills by putting on the miles and practicing. These guys would literally ride for 2-3 hours tops, once per week on a Sunday afternoon. Nowhere near enough to become familiar with their bike. Inevitably they start researching the next (better) bike, and end up dropping a load of dosh 💰 on a 600cc sport bike. Now they are a bit more intimidated by the extra weight and power, plus the new slippery tyres which need ‘scrubbing in’. They ride almost bolt upright, scared to drop their new heady investment and end up slower. Now when the 750cc bike overtakes them they blame the bike again, and end up upgrading with several hundred miles under their belt on the 600. This cycle repeats until they own a 1300cc top spec superbike which weighs double what their 250 weighed, has 3-4 times the power and scares the living shit out of them even at legal speeds. At this point one of three things will happen. They either; 1) Overcook a corner, get target fixation and crash, potentially killing or disabling themselves. 2) Decide biking isn’t for them as it’s not rewarding and even the best bikes don’t make them ride like they’d wanted to. 3) Admit that it’s THEM that’s the problem, sell their Hayabusa and buy a ratty old 250cc bike for a few hundred quid, and learn to ride it well, or get some advanced training.

[@hungryyeti2548]

Listening to these round table discussions between young fellers half my age I thought I could learn nothing , my apologies I was wrong I considered myself after all these years a expert( not quite a expert ) , I enjoy the hell outta your channel. Thnx young whippersnappers.

[@stanwean4078]

Jl

[@aidenbechtold9168]

Qing oopo91000000

[@kelmmane]

😊😂😅

[@Critical-Defense]

On the contrary, I’d argue you know less now than you’ve ever known in your life. Technology, manufacturing, ballistics, and glass have all had advancements in the last 5-10 years that outpaced the last 50+ years. We are in an age of constantly changing advancement that won’t stop until the Rapture. I remember life without the Internet and smart phones and grew up with both of them as they became prominent. Luckily I had an interest in technology and made a career of it so I’ve kept myself in the loop. Both smart phones and the Internet have both progressed firearms farther in their time than the advancements since the 1911.

[@psubond]

Everyone on the planrt can teach us something. The difficult for us old timers is keeping our ears open and listening. What we have going for us though is we have experience to filter out nonsense. Everything i have heard thus far from these guys is good

[@jerad4336]

The 308 is one of the few cartridges that I can find ammo available. That and the long barrel life make it a winner.

[@rossauce12]

Ud have to spend over $6k in 6.5 ammo before your barrel starts to go bad... just so you know

[@mattdg1981]

​@@rossauce12308 still last longer

[@theblishknovk]

​@@mattdg1981that is a good thing for the 308. But at the same time if you can afford to burn out a barrel on any gun then its just pocket change to throw another barrel in your gun.

[@PeterOldschool]

​@@rossauce12 Your spending 4-5$ more per box for a tiny game bullet/ paper ripper. Ill take a big .30 round or 7mm any day

[@rossauce12]

@barbalato5 i honestly dont shoot enough of it to make that much of a difference where 4 or 5 matters. But yes I agree for economy 308 would be like a 9mm of a ar10 platform. I do shoot alot of 9 and not my 380s

[@philswann]

Bunch of smart, articulate guys around this table. I'm not even in the market for a scope right now, but if I was it'd be a Vortex, just because they were smart enough to hire these guys and fund this podcast. So much of this wasn't even "Vortex specific". Just broad optics guidance. Love it.

[@johnfordham8133]

P.s the 308 is a fine realistic cartridge for us old military types that still shoot a lot. Past a point we call in an air strike!

[@traceyevans2757]

It’s a great cartridge for the majority of hunters tbh

[@joedeleon1189]

Yup, some Swedish Army DMR trainer said in 9-Holes reviews a few weeks ago that realistically passed 700m it's FN-MAG, 84mm Carl Gustav RPG or CAS territory. :>0

[@cwolf8841]

@@joedeleon1189 or artillery

[@jfphotography69]

I hunt state lands. I used to use a Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9x50 on my Browning BLR 308 lever action, did not take me long to realize it was too much scope for the woods that I was hunting, replaced it with a Bushnell Elite 3200 2x7x32 "no illuminated red dot, just an old fashion cross, more than enough scope for the woods. The furthest shot for a clean kill in the woods for me would be 100-150 yards, most kills have been less than 100 yards. Especially if you are hunting inside woodlands with heavy brush, where a deer can just show up at crossbow/bow range or closer, too much magnification on the low end means you have a good chance of not acquiring the subject in time. I also do photography, and the longer the phocal length of the lens, it makes it more difficult to acquire the subject. You want to be able to acquire the subject first and then zoom in if you have to.

[@jerryconrad2737]

Love that you guys keep it real. Some of the best firearm/scope information available out here. That is another good reason to support your products as well. Well done and thanks.

[@ditzydoo4378]

I own two Vortex 2x7 Crossfires on two of my AR uppers. They were $139 new and are very good scopes. But the yardstick by which all others are judged is a US made Leupold 3x9-40mm VX which can be had for under $199 dollars new, guaranteed forever regardless of who owns it. If it fails due to Workmanship, or Material issues, Leupold will repair, or replace it at no cost. No receipt of purchase needed.. ever... This is your basic benchmark for anyone starting out.

[@ronws2007]

And Vortex has a warranty like that. And now, the new scopes compete with Vortex.

[@ryanmg02]

Leupold hasn't been the benchmark for affordable scopes for a while.

[@ditzydoo4378]

@@ryanmg02 They do make rather high-end scopes. But their entry level is very affordable. What most fail to appreciate is that one can by a Leupold second-hand and it's still covered by the same 100% no questions asked guaranty any new scope made today has.

[@ryanmg02]

@@ditzydoo4378 yeah I was a trained Leupold, vortex, Nikon, Zeiss, and Steiner. Sales tech. Took all the training so I could but their stuff at discounts. And because it was fun.

[@markjames8268]

This actually resonated with me, for years I heard the old tropes about buy once or spend 2 or 3 or 4 times the rifle price. But a few years ago I became involved in emergency management, took some classes and learned a few things. First thing you must do is assess , Number 1 what are you doing, what style, how far, how accurate are you, then look at budget, I will use an example I have used before you are buying little 11 year old Billie his first Deer Rifle, He has never really hunted he is an average shot ( can keep the bullet close to center), You live in Alabama and are shooting pine woods or maybe a field edge 200 yards if you are lucky, 1st rifle sub $400 (Ruger, savage axis pick one) in .243. The rifle comes with a cheap sub $100 scope. Do you really need to run out and buy little Billie a expensive scope. NO, he will be fine with a sub $100 dollar scope that's basically set and forget, thousands of southern hunters use cheap scopes for years set it and double check it at the start of dear season (aka minute of deer). Yes I have seen this exact situation, I have also seen the Gun Mag nut that bought a 7mm rem mag and a $1500 scope to hunt in the woods of South Georgia, I think his longest shot was 218 yards. I still have a beater truck gun with a cheap Simmons scope on it and it still hits what I aim at. Now I am not bashing high end optics, they definitely have a place and I use them in the right place, But I don't need a Ferrari to go to the hardware store, my 20 year old truck does just fine and I didn't even cry when they put the lumber in the bed and bent my wheel well, just shook my head and drove home.

[@russellkeeling4387]

Little Billie should have open sights on his first rifle. Imo.

[@Critical-Defense]

@@russellkeeling4387 little Billie needs to learn how to use a scope. It’s much harder to learn how to use a scope, irons are idiot proof.

[@russellkeeling4387]

@@Critical-Defense So what if little Billie can't afford a scope but still wants to go hunting?

[@Critical-Defense]

@@russellkeeling4387 I’d say Little Billie should check the most recent prices of scopes and skip a few school lunches to buy one. A decent scope for Little Billie that will stand up to heavy recoil can be purchased for $50-$100 on Amazon, and it will actually be clear glass with a decent reticle and will hold zero. It may be made in China but if he’s hurting for money that bad he’s not in any position to complain. Even cheaper, a Tasco would work without issue for around $25. If Little Billie doesn’t have $25 for a scope he has no business buying a rifle or ammo in the first place.

[@Critical-Defense]

@@russellkeeling4387 also, in this example from the original comment Little Billie’s rifle came with a scope included.

[@scotteger6271]

The Viper HS is like an Audi S4…has some performance to keep you happy but has four doors and AWD that make it practical…along with a comfortable and quiet interior to make commuting effortless…to bring it back to hunting, the HS has a good zoom range and really useable low end magnification which gathers a lot of light. It also has a zoom ring that moves smoothly and is visible from the shooter’s perspective. The turrets are positive and both tactile & audible, as well as tool less zero resettable. It’s also lightweight and doesn’t cost a fortune. It has become my go-to for hunting scopes.

[@boba_chan717]

Gohkbk

[@Paul-q3m7k]

I have one in 2.5 x10x44 on my 35 Whelen . I love it

[@TerryPullen]

My use case is 22lr, 25 to 150 yards, target shooting with occasional varmint removal. I purchased a 4x12 Dimondback Tactical two weeks ago. It is my first scope so my experience is limited. Target acquisition is excellent, I use it mostly at 6 to 8 power it is very bright even after sundown. I feel like it may be a little more then I need but I am very happy with it. Thank you Vortex!

[@dustinmclean7899]

This is something I wish I had watched years ago when first starting off. Great podcast. Thank you for all you guys do.

[@MrSoonermadman]

I just watched…. Stayed to the end. As a scope “noob” I have no idea what scope I need on my rifle. This helped a little, but still clear as mud. You guys are awesome.

[@elmashingon6136]

The "quit being poor" comment had me dying, that's so true! From an outsider's standpoint looking to get into PRS and or hunting.

[@kurtgellert9166]

"I went to public school and drank cheap beer in college....I don't do math well." ...LOL. THAT needs to be on a t-shirt...

[@zmbombr]

As I struggled to keep up with my riding posse I learned how to finesse the clapped out '80s 250 two-stroke. Everyone else made their state of the art 450s climb hills and navigate single track with easy. My buddy rode up and said remember, it's the Archer that hits the bullseye not the arrow.

[@Bodhi1satva]

Great explanation that all new shooters should seriously listen to regarding FFP vs SFP optics. You lost me as soon as you call the .308 antiquated. How many new calibers will last half as long and still be viable?

[@danielboggan2479]

That was a joke. These guys are big advocates of the 308

[@katashi222]

.308 rules to a mile and more!!!

[@leifhoklin2681]

@@katashi222 Now you’re overstating your case.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

@@katashi222 ummm isn’t that the Crudmore?

[@katashi222]

@@dr.froghopper6711 wtf are you talking froggy!!!

[@AllNighterHeider]

You guys touched on lots of very important principles from business to personal development. Very well done gents. And for the listeners, i highly recommend 2X speed so you can listen to twice as many shows.

[@kevinbillow4185]

I only go 1.5x speed. Any faster and Jim's voice turns chipmunky

[@ron8566]

Great round table discussion. I am twisting in the wind trying to figure out exactly what I need for precision 22 LR shooting at 50 and 100 yards. Mostly bench test stuff for now. I hope I can call you to talk about this.

[@indianajets]

Speaking of over scoping. I have a crossfire II 3-12X56 on my Marlin 1894CST 357MAG .. now, here's why. With my age, double Astigmatisms, and glasses with bifocals, the extra zoom actually helps me not bounce in and out of my bifocals. Yes, it looks a bit overkill, but it works perfectly for me.

[@joeschuster2837]

I use a. Redfield 1x4 for woods hunting. A Leopold 3x9 for field hunting out to 300 meters. A IOR 40x for 1500 meter shooting. ..

[@darionvacher9841]

I have an SWFA 10x on my 308 precision rifle, and it works very well.

[@WestPat23]

Proud to own LPVO Razor, PST, and Strike Eagle, all on Precision QR cantilever mounts. Each on a rifle on par with each optic. Skip ahead to 1:18:00. Pay the money and get good rings!

[@kellymchenry4572]

I just bought my first rifle I appreciate your transparency and honesty. Yes I listen all the way through. Thanks guys!

[@jacobivy2854]

I went with the Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 on my Tikka T3x Tactical with 24” SS heavy profile barrel in 6.5cm as nowhere near me (multiple Vortex dealers) could get me a Strike Eagle 5-25x56 or knew when one would come in. This is my first venture into PRS style shooting, and for the price, this has been an amazing scope. I will be upgrading to either the Strike Eagle or maybe even a Razor before long if I still enjoy the hobby and drop a Tikka .338 LM into a MDT chassis.

[@MrJtin69]

I grew up with irons and grew to love vortex scopes before finding this podcast i truly love your range finders also such professionals

[@johnfordham8133]

For such a young guy you have it nailed. Training always wins out with a good attitude. It should always be fun. I enjoyed your video.

[@TheTorlock]

Wow im way late having just built my first rifle this month (pending optic choice, but sling light case mags ammo etc all good2go) BUT I hugely appreciate this convo. Within the first 8 mins you guys convinced im going vortex so i can support the way you guys do business. I work in support bizops and you guys are doing it right. Thanks for that. You earned my business

[@alanwinge8775]

I used to hunt deer with a fixed 4x and it worked at the distance I shot at. I think it was better for a less expensive scope because it is simpler.

[@russellkeeling4387]

In 2018 I shot my elk with a .444 Marlin that has a 4 power scope on it. It was a 266 yard shot. I like fixed power scopes but they can be hard to find.

[@kmtphx]

Great podcast. I wish you would have split it into two podcasts: Choosing the Right Hunting Riflescope and Choosing the Right Target Riflescope. Thanks! Appreciate it. Will check my tires.

[@VortexNation]

Thanks for the feedback and for tuning in! We can probably do more on those topics in the future!

[@VortexNation]

For hunting specifically, you may enjoy this one - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqPMqWOhga51hrM

[@joehunt4506]

I opted to put the 6x24x50 Diamondback Tactical FFP, with Burris Signature rings on my .300 Win Mag

[@johnnyb2799]

What a great video! I’ve shot sooo many varmints at ranges from 50 to 500 yards with a duplex reticle, albeit on a tuned rifle with tuned hand loads. Some of the best times shooting in my life. Did I mention it wasn’t a $1,000 scope either. Great job guys!

[@timothylink7853]

1982 Marlin 30/30 with high rise Busnell 3x9 with open sites. It has been dead on for 3 generations of Users. My grandson Mason got 1st deer @ 13yrs old, at my 8GK farm in Steelville,Mo.

[@kitbruttig1995]

I enjoy all of your pod casts, but I wish you would do a specific pod cast on low power deer and elk scopes in 1x4, 1x6, 2x7 3x9. I hunt in Eastern Texas where many shots are under 40 yards generally not farther than 150 yards Clear optics, wide field of view, lighter weight (under a pound), simplicity of use in the field are all top considerations.

[@Puma1Sunfire1]

Great Information on scopes, what to look for, and why what features for when. I always go low end scopes with Capped turrets and Rangefinder or Mil Dot Reticle at first till I have put a few hundred rounds through the rifle. Once I'm VERY comfortable with the firearm and know where bullets go with X, Y, and/or Z, THEN I upgrade to something BETTER. Sometimes that cheap scope/optic (as long as it stays on point), is all you need for what your doing. Always best to get proficiency with your firearm over expensive add-ons that might be too much for what you're doing

[@wolflahti412]

The most important question that needs asking is Do you need a scope at all? If you mainly still hunt midwest and eastern woodland deer, a .30-30 with iron sights may be best for you. Faster target acquisition and unlimited field of view.

[@VortexNation]

You could certainly get away with that, but it will not allow you to take some shots that you would be able to with an optic.

[@KillerKolt44]

Says the optic company

[@KNJensen]

For a lot of hunting situations - let say 200 yards and in - a guy could get away with a red dot and a magnifier. BUT it leaves you without some options for PID ,and obviusly range.

[@peterpoel1019]

Personally I like a optic in every situation. I’d choose a low power for the application above. I have a 1.5x5x22 on my .44 rifle. Ammo too pricey and I like a crosshair in the moment. Buck fever is real!

[@cleetismcdougall5425]

Yeah…..try a red dot on that 30-30. It’s a game changer.

[@brandon1910]

This was a great chat. One thing I'd love to see is a talk on rings and how to pick them. You guys spoke to how it's important and I agree. What i've always found challenging is how to know what's a good set of rings? Is it just spending as much as you can afford or is there diminishing returns similar to optics?

[@waylove04]

I just got my first hunting rifle a 7mm and need a scope for it. So, after listening to this podcast, I emailed Vortex, and I received a reply to my email the same day. We'll I am now a Vortex fan all the way. Just for the quick response. They asked all pertinent questions and gave me a great recommendation.

[@widipuji972]

Buy the best.. if you can afford military scope then go for it. If you cant buy it anyway. For the moment that you will not forget

[@540isilver]

i did just fine with cheap scopes all my life. but now that i can afford the razor hdii i love it!

[@wisconsinoutdoorsman4782]

Love the viper pst gen 2 2-10x. Perfect for an AR10 in wisconsin. Illumination makes low end usable and high end is crystal clear. I'm planning on getting a razor at some point but I'm very happy with my viper. If you're curious as to what AR10 I have been lucky enough to see a Sig 716 G2 patrol stroll into my local ma and pa gun shop. Tagged my first buck (8pt) with that rifle using iron sights. Now with my viper I am looking forward to next open season.

[@frankarchibald732]

I'm from Wisconsin too. But it's hard to find long range 😕 but where did you find it. And what do they sell for?

[@wisconsinoutdoorsman4782]

@@frankarchibald732 private property is unfortunately the only place that you'll find long range near me (western Wisconsin farmland) otherwise Eau Claire has a range that goes out to 600 yards but extensive membership requirements are to be met to have access to the range. 10x power is all you'll ever need while Wisconsin whitetail hunting which is why I opted for the viper pst gen 2, 2-10 First Focal Plane. I now hunt with a Savage 110 scout chambered in .308 with the Burris 2-7x scout. It's a much lighter rifle compared to my Sig piston driven AR10.

[@frankarchibald732]

@@wisconsinoutdoorsman4782 oh ok. Thanks for the info.

[@greghart6310]

But, but we need 50x magnification to see our misses in ultra clear illuminated HD! (kidding)

[@jamessammann9183]

Spoting scope

[@brainmeier3433]

I own a diamond back 4-16 FFP on a weatherby vanguard 270 and I use it for target shooting and hunting. Some complain about not being able to see the crosshairs at lower power but that’s not much a problem for me because I have perfect vision.

[@Aldocello1]

I own many Vortex scopes / optics all viper pst on up , when the Razor HD LHT 3-15 became available locally , Bought one took it to the range on my Tikka T3x 270 , on the way home bought 2 more , now have it on 3 of my rifle designated mostly for short range hunting . This configuration, the reticle / hashmarks with nothing above the windage for better sight picture , only the center dot illuminated , THE PERFECT SCOPE !!! Not to mention on of my 308 Tikka's I have it on , was popping steel out to 500yds so far , looking to get it out further

[@crunch9876]

How do you get that much money?

[@magnusrapp1]

42 or 50 objective? I am going to get one but fond it difficult choosing

[@tomschumacher5434]

I have two diamond back tactical’s and I love that scope for the value 👌🏼

[@hotchihuahua1546]

Three things I want from a hunting scope , low light capability , tough scope that stays on zero once set , life time warranty !

[@VortexNation]

We got what you need ;)

[@Billyrobthornton]

I agree with him but will add a gloss finish as an option for those of us who like traditional timer and high gloss bluing

[@chadwallace3598]

@@VortexNation what model would you say is best for a heavier recoil rifle for holding zero? Let’s say 338 wm for elk. Because I’ve seen where the diamondbacks for example are notorious for not holding zero.

[@chadwallace3598]

Nothing?

[@ejw4326]

@@VortexNation Which one is that?

[@davidlawson3400]

Great podcast. I just bought my first 300 Win Mag (first rifle ever actually) for hunting in Alaska since I moved here and had no clue what optic I wanted. I do a lot of wildlife photography so I am familiar with optics, but this was certainly helpful.

[@joebowman8204]

I just got a new LHT for my Bergara 6.5CM. That thing is fantastic. I love the 5i reticle. Previously, the nicest scope I’d ever owned was the Diamondback HP. Major upgrade. I’ll be getting another LHT for my 308 very soon.

[@Kross8761]

Jim brought up the main point near the 1:05:00 mark. Everyone has to start somewhere, AND starting with a quality "budget" option and spending more money on ammo and becoming a better shooter will allow you to appreciate any upgrades you may make in the future. Just for example: if you start with the 1-6 strike eagle for under $400 and spend money on ammo (and training) and you become a more skilled and proficient shooter, you will appreciate the improvement if and when you upgrade to something like the PST1-6, the razor gen2 1-6 (or even the razor gen3 1-10) And you will appreciate the improvement *MORE* than the moneybags guy that went straight to the gen3 1-10 and will very likely shoot better because you have the trigger time already invested. If you have the money to spend, buy the best you can afford (afford with "disposable" income, not maxing out 3 credit cards) but if what you can afford is $500 or less don't be discouraged. Buy the best you can afford and improve yourself until you require better to keep improving. If you want the "plateau" for best performance per dollar, the $800-$1200 range is the sweet spot in my experience, you generally get great glass quality and may or may not have a handful of the quality of life improvements you desire.

[@jross13450]

Great video. I'm at a crossroads of getting a new scope. Have been happy with my strike eagle 3-18x44 and 4-24x50, got a couple Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 scopes. The responses on line were skip the Viper PST and go for the Razor. I think the Viper is right where i need to be after talking to several people asking what my use will be. Thank you for the great sit down talk about selecting scopes

[@nvlaser9084]

Buy the Razor, they can be had for $1600 new, are built to last a lifetime and arent chicom junk like most of vortex's products. If its a hunting gun, buy the AMG. Optic is by far the most important part of a weapon system.

[@jross13450]

@@nvlaser9084 is a .22lr "all purpose" rifle. Bench shooting and positional shooting. 25 meters to 200 yards. $1600 scope on a 10/22 based project is a little overkill. Even for me.

[@nvlaser9084]

@@jross13450 Not really, Most guys shooting NRL/PRS22 are shooting high end glass due to small targets, short parallax adjustment and needing alot of elevation (hence lots of turning turrets which will destroy weaker optics). In 20 years the Razor will still be a quality , viable optic. The cheap chicom shit will shoot itself apart. There are much cheaper quality options but the truth is , good optics start at about $800. Anything less is junk outside some specific stuff like the SWFA Super Snipers or other low feature products.

[@ronws2007]

Really enjoying the info here and it totally makes sense. The first rifle I got was a Mossberg Patriot .308 Win that came with a Vortex Crossfire II 3x-9x/40 mm BDC (SFP.) It has the the stove pipe reticle for average ammunition out to 500 yards and the rifle is, as advertised, 1 MOA in my experience. It was meant as a hunting rifle but I have not hunted with it. So, I really wanted adjustable cheek rise and realized that what I really wanted was the Mossberg MVP Long Range 308 (Thunder Ranch with Kuiu Camo.) That one comes without optic and I wanted to go a step up and have first focal plane. And what my budget could afford is the Diamondback Tactical 6x-24x/50 mm FFP. And that has worked well on that rifle with a particular round that I cannot get so easy now, the Federal Nontypical Whitetail .308 Win 180 gr. It shoots half an inch and less at 100 yards. I had that zeroed at 100 yards and then decided to center at 25-300 yards. The danger zone is 5.5 inches in the 8 inch pie plate of a whitetail deer (my intended target) on public hunting land. Land that is much like I hear Wisconsin is. Heavily forested. Lucky to get a shot as far as 70 yards, more likely 40 yards and less. As described, I may make a turn or crest a small hill (far north Texas) and there is 140 pounds of jerky and butterfly steaks and osso buco right there at 30 yards. No time to get pretty and settled with my tripod and dial scope like Tom Berenger or Billy Zane or Mark Wahlberg. Shoulder and shoot. So, basically, set and forget. Which I could do with the Crossfire II. Most of the hunting I can do here is like that and the 24x won't get used much unless I get on some cleared land. Or win a state lottery for drawn hunts to go to the Cap Rock Canyon WMA near Amarillo. The description page for that from TPWD is to expect snow and ice. And to expect shots around 200 yards. Even then, I could use the 25 - 300 yard zero and hold or dial for wind. Because the targets are bigger, too. West is where most of the mule deer are, except that the lottery draw is for whitetail, mostly, though you can buy a tag for mule deer and blacktail. I cannot see spending more than what it took to get the Diamondback Tactical and with prices like that, you do not have to spend as much or more than the rifle cost.

[@charlesmorgan1879]

I wish I had more cash in my pocket this past wkend in Bristol, TN a flea market stand had 8 boxes of that ammo & 2vbx of 168 gr Sierra match bthp $20 each ! Only had a 20= 1bx

[@greatlakespowerstrokefx4]

Your lht 3-15 42 is simply a fantastic scope. Im so happy you guys came out with that. It hit everything i needed for a light weight, all range, extremely clear scope.

[@greatlakespowerstrokefx4]

44 i mean my bad

[@rkwjunior2298]

​@greatlakespowerstrokefx4 why they didn't make that model in FFP is mystery to me. Give people the option. I could use it for long range and hunting.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

52:56 Diminishing gains. As in, one can only improve a thing so far, before further adjustments provide smaller and smaller improvements, if at all. Ie. The fabled Tikka T3x action... How much does one need to spend, to perceive a noticeable improvement?

[@Sqwan2]

This was an amazing podcast. Unfortunately I still don't know how to chose the right scope now. As the podcast was 1:20:00 I hoped to get a few more details. I also looked up what you have to offer, but I have no clue what it means to me and how to compare it. If I had to buy a scope right know I probably would buy a Zeiss 3-12x56 because where I come from, everyone is using it.

[@scotteger6271]

I’m confident that if you call Vortex customer service they can help you pick a scope that specifically meets your exact needs.

[@pauldeahl3980]

For hunting the low magnification is more important that upper magnification because if you happen upon a critter at close range, you want a large field of view so you can find the animal in your scope quickly. For hunting you first want a flat shooting caliber. Then realize that an ethical hunting distance is MAX 300 to 400 yards. So you pick a magnification range applicable to that Max distance with as low a magnification as possible. If you’re out there shooting at game at 800 yards that’s just target shooting on live game. A true hunter will stalk within a reasonable distance based on their shooting skill level or ambush. For hunting you don’t need a 1st focal range. You won’t have time to range an animal and adjust your scope. Instead you sight your gun for max point blank range and then when you aim on an animal you simply put the crosshairs on it and know that your going to hit the vitals as long as you compensate, if necessary, for windage. So all that means is a second focal plane with a simple duplex reticle. For hunting, illumination is a personal preference. If you can convince the game warden you shot that animal within the legal hours of hunting, or if your hunting in the woods with lots of shadow, then yeah, illumination could be for you. For hunting, parallax adjustment is not something you need to be adjusting in the heat of the moment. Knowing the above can get you a really decent scope for less than $500. What drives up the cost of a scope is 1st focal plane, high magnification, illumination, and side focus ( parallax). I’ve laid out reasons that you don’t need those 4 features for hunting and now you can spend money on the optics quality and not the bells and whistles not needed for hunting. Ringing steel is a totally different approach and I’m not getting into that subject.

[@ronaldlollis8895]

I absolutely agree with you on this, I’ve got “low end/bargain/decent” high mag/illuminated scopes on a couple of rifles, a mid level on a crossbow and some mid to upper mid level glass on a variety of other items. I have found that most illuminating scopes leave much to be desired because if it is dark enough to really need it, it’s likely too dark to be shooting at animals(other than predators and hogs, that’s a different subject) and most illuminated reticle, even on the lowest of low, provides too much light and eye washes, screwing up your natural night vision. Bushnell had the best idea with the Firefly dot on the crosshairs, but you had to shine a flashlight on it to charge it for a few minutes. Tritium would have been ideal for it. I like a very fine crosshair for my target shooting, total washout in low light. I’ve used milspecs, milrads and moa’s, up to 4moa red dots(I prefer a 2), but getting older my eyesight sux now. Two of the best scopes I’ve ever had are a 3x9-40 I bought at JC Penny’s (go figure) that I kept on a pre-64 Mod70-‘06 for years and years and a Brunton 3x9-40 I scored from SG with a great Victorinox folder bonus that skins deer superbly. It’s on a Marlin60 and I still marvel at it’s optic quality for so little duck I spent to get it. The Simmons ATEC series and the Bushnell BDC and Prime lines are probably the best low cost/quality received bargains out there. I’ve got a bargain basement high mag/illuminated A/O on a single shot ‘06, while the glass quality/coatings could be better on high magnification, above 14x, it’s “stoopid accurate” and tracks flawlessly. I know I got lucky with “that one”, and I could probably go to a mid/upper line, say a PST Tac, a Leupold, a Nikon Black, maybe a Weaver or Burris, but since what I have on it hits dead on way out with it’s pet load, quite frankly I’m reluctant to touch it for fear of messing it up. I’ll leave it be until I absolutely have to. And right now, it’s just too danged expensive to shoot.

[@robbio121]

I plan on using my AR10 for hunt

[@craigschaefer8764]

Great video, and refreshingly honest. You guys are rare birds: honest businessmen.

[@eribertoacedo9505]

Good show lots of information on types of scopes, I have an Enfield 7.62 / 51 NATO 308 have a Simmons Pro 50 scope, Bob at Be-Square made a scope mount for my rifle good combo, very content with this set up! thank you Bob at B-Square! and this program!

[@danielrobey1759]

The viper pst 1-6 is the girl next door. I’ve got one on my 338/06AI and love it, it’s perfect for hunting with that cartridge. As much as I enjoy long range shooting I still believe in getting as close as reasonably possible when hunting. Don’t get me wrong I’ll take a 400 yard shot if it’s a good shot setup but there are so many variables at play beyond just the scope and shooters ability…

[@charlesvire7517]

Thank you 🙏 Brothers for being honest on your pod casts. Never used scopes in the Military Everything was iron sights. Semper Fi

[@Paul-q3m7k]

The only issue I’ve found with the short bell on the HS line is that the front of the bell hits the pick rail on long action rifles . I put an hs 2.5 x 10 x 44 on my 35 Whelen built on a rem 700 action . I couldn’t get the eye relief I needed so I put a tally rail on it so i could bring the scope back more . It didn’t work because the bell hit the front of the rail. I went to two small rails instead and that solved it .

[@jamessammann9183]

I got few strike eagles 5 to 25...enjoy them got a 22x lht it was the worst scope I have ever looked threw sent it back ..right scope mKes a difference

[@briankesler449]

I got so much crap in a weatherby group on Facebook for putting a Diamondback Tactical 4-16 on a Weatherby Mark V Weathermark in 300 Weatherby Mag some people actually laughed at me for putting a "cheap scope" on it, saying it needs at least a $2000 scope and I laughed back saying I can probably outshoot them and be able to buy ammowith the money I saved

[@mattskag2]

You can't buy skill. So many people want to buy the latest greatest widget in the hopes it will make them better, ain't gonna happen. Save the money and put in the time and work.

[@newerest1]

expensive rifle and cheap scope makes no sense. the opposite makes more sense. modern rifles are all capable of really good accuracy, not all scopes are capable of being bomb proof and having amazing tracking.

[@burkehoward1511]

My mom has the 4×16 that one has clear glass. Mine doesn't 4×24

[@fluxcapacitor05]

This didn't happen.

[@LongRanger1]

Modest, buy for life, mount well, got it! Thanks, your info is priceless, in between the car references. You guys are my go-to’s.

[@jamesmooney5348]

Very good pod cast! Don't know the product lines and option too well. Very helpful actually. Guess I'll be calling in

[@toddboone333]

I can’t tell a difference between Vortex’s Philippines glass and their Japanese glass. If you put the average shooter behind a Viper PST and the Razor, they’ll be able to see that the Razor is more tin walled in its construction. But the glass is really similar. I think the Viper has better glass at around half the cost or maybe more, depending on which Razor you buy.

[@Theoutdooranalyst]

How real you guys are keeps me buying your optics. The 1-6 rules the Midwest for me. Also, never stop the podcast! Seriously, I love listening to it.

[@ronws2007]

52:40 I believe the word is logarithmic. And I just keep watching this particular podcast because you guys are so smart. I think you think the way that I think, which may be a way of complimenting myself. Over-scoping, indeed. My MVP, which I have hunted with, is now heavier with a Venom on it. Which could be okay if I am just varminting, i.e., sitting at the edge of a farm field and picking off varmints. But your hunting rifle has to have some considerations. If you are on foot the entire way, especially on a back country hunt, which most elk and moose and even bear hunts are, you have to consider the weight of everything versus what you need it to do. Like Mark's A-Bolt in .300 WSM. Probably weighed about 7 pounds empty when he got it. I imagine, finished out, he was 9 pounds something, which is fine for a big and strong guy like him hiking around wherever it was (Brit Can? Queen Victoria's Island? Or Washington state?) Even on my Diamondback tactical, at the 100 yard indoor range, I can dial no more than 10 power to get any resolution, so, I might adjust a smidge the fast focus on the ocular. But there is clarity and I can see shots, which is good, because sometimes, the 100 yard monitor is not working so well. I went back and forth between my Diamondback Tactical 6-24/50 mm and my Crossfire II 3-9/40 Dead Hold. The Crossfire II is accurate enough. I zeroed at 100 yards with about 1 MOA. Mostly me, not the rifle. But I put the Diamondback Tactical back on. For some reason, I do better with that scope and had the smallest group at 1/4 MOA and the largest at 3/4 MOA with a hot barrel. But if I was to get a .450 BM or .350 Legend, I know that is a rifle that will shine best to 300 yards or less and there would never be a need for any other scope than the Crossfire II Straight Wall BDC. Either use the holds or zero for a PBR of 150 yards. I know that Elmer Keith wrote of shooting 600 yards with a .35 Whelen but that was a special circumstance and more often than not, it was a rump shot and did not bring the animal down. So, my added thought is not just the performance but, like you guys are saying the durability. A scope with caps does not get accidental turret twists. So, I have scope slickers and I also have a rifle slicker. And the weight consideration. Also, scopes have more range than one might think. For example, not that I would hunt an animal at 1,000 yards, but the Diamondback Tactical and the Venom will go to 1,000 yards with a zero MOA rail. And you could dial all of your elevation and then hold an additional 80 MOA of reticle. Not that you would need to but it is capable.

[@VortexNation]

You are spot on, my friend! There are always trade-offs to heavier/lighter rigs, capped/exposed turrets, etc. At the end of the day you need to dive into what the setup will be used for primarily and go with something that will give you the best advantage.

[@edwardperdue3362]

Pretty p PS to p

[@stephenchenier5005]

Have you looked through the vortex HD gen 2 4.5-27??

[@ronws2007]

@@stephenchenier5005 I think you meant the Razor HD Gen 2. I have not looked through one but i see that they now have the EBR-7C, updated from the EBR-2C. And it is a good magnification range. And good glass. I just don't the budget or need to spend 2800 on a scope. Not that I wouldn't. The Venom 5x-25x/ 56 mm is more than enough for me at a really low price for what that scope does. It costs me about 500 for the Venom. And does everything I need. As I said in my previous post, I could go 1,000 yards on a 0 MOA rail. However, if I planned to shoot past 500 yards regularly, I would put on a 20 MOA rail and get some of my elevation back on the turret. But I will say this. Being so impressed with the quality of Vortex, the price of a Razor HD would be money well spent. If you can afford it, even for a hunting rifle, then get it. And "over-scoped" be damned. Use the scope that makes you comfortable and accurate. That is why I use the Diamondback Tactical over my latest hunting rifle for public land and hiking, which is very much like a back country hunt. Plenty of people have killed more deer than me with the Crossfire II Dead Hold BDC SFP scope. I just like the EBR-2C and 7C reticles and first focal plane. Ranging in reticle is a breeze. And that is something I have to do in the thick forests of public land. My laser range finder dings of a near by leaf. But ranging in reticle, I can get shots between the trees to about 70 yards ish.

[@scotteger6271]

@@ronws2007 when your budget allows maybe check out the Viper HS scopes. I bought a lot of Crossfire II’s and regular Diamondback scopes until I put two Viper HS scopes on my XBolts. I have Diamondbacks on other rifles but those two XBolts are my go-to hunting rifles and the Viper HS scopes make me enjoy them more than I have other rifles. The Viper HS scopes can be had for decent prices if you shop around a little.

[@coyotiess]

I have a VORTEX CROSSFIRE 6-18x44 I am Impressed by it I mean like WOW!

[@rossauce12]

The second focal plane isnt as bad if you have a leopold because you get the custom made turret or turrrets for ur ammo, gun, temp elevation etc... so as you adjust its on without having to second guess

[@mattdg1981]

I believe in less is more. 3-9x40 seems to be the standard but I run 32 mm opticswith lower magnification. To much and I'm always adjusting. My 2-7x32 crossfire2 is prolly my favorite optic. Clear glass 4x magnification is suitable for everything inside of 150 yds( for me anyway) and thats where most of my shots are taken. Anything past that 6x works pretty well and 32mm still works well out to 500 yds.

[@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296]

In the past 12 months I’ve bought 3 rifle scopes. I looked at the vortex but decided to go with the Leupold because it’s all designed and manufactured in the USA

[@JohnHowerton223]

Thanks for keeping it real. I don’t have a bunch of money, have been shooting cheap stuff (real cheap), and shooting better than most. Was looking at mid-range scopes but was feeling down about it.. so started looking at buying higher-end uncomfortably out of my budget stuff. I’d much rather do the mid-range and buy a ton of ammo! I enjoy burning ammo much more than peepee measuring, which is probably why I’m a better shooter.

[@milleroctober1996]

After listening to this I got a 4x12 Bushnell ar scope. Love it for coyote. But hearing about the strike eagle looking at the 1x8

[@scottscheuerman6170]

things I always look at is how how much eye relief there is then the amount of field of view comes next then how clear is that scope and is it in the price range I don’t generally go over a 18 power on magnification I don’t mind that a scope has a second focal plain because I’m not big on adjusting the scope out in the field once it gets sighted in unless your shooting at steel at long distances. Shooting at game is unethical if you shoot at them past 500 yards because 99% of the people don’t have any business shooting that far anyway there are to many variables

[@PBVader]

Math. Second focal mildot 3 to 10, at 100 yards with 10 power being accurate, 3 power will be 12 inches per mil. There should be no reason to deviate from crosshairs within 250yds for deer with a 50/200 zero. Been using this for years.

[@carterthiessen2664]

Best budget optic for hunting, the diamondback hp 4-16. 16 power is enough for any hunting scenario, 4 power is low enough for the woods, its not a terribly heavy scope, and the price is right. I have one on a RAP in 6.5 and can hit an 12" plate at 800 yards fairly consistently. Thats farther than anyone should be lobbing bullets at game animals.

[@dgambrel9241]

A 4-16 sfp will cover 80% of what people need. 3-9 was perfect for 30 years before the Internet. I have ffp, but I like sfp for most things, but I don’t compete.

[@marcush4741]

Im glad you talked about budget very honestly. The idea of "buy once, cry once" is just not viable for a lot of people looking to just get into the hobby. There is nothing wrong with spending less on a scope IF it's quality, and deciding after a few years of regular shooting that they want to get into that $2400 scope range. A QUALITY budget scope is still going to retain a lot of its value, and if not, it can easily just go onto a new gun or a backup gun. If I took the adage of "buy once, cry once" with archery, I never would have just gotten out into the woods. My 1970s bear recurve let me start out with trad EXTREMELY easily, and allowed me a decade try out other peoples bows on the course. Witness the overpriced fads, see which brands came with nitpicky annoyances, see which wood grains appealed to me the most, and come to a conclusion on what I wanted my forever bow to be. By the time I got my forever bow, there was no fear that I might be missing something. Dropping $2400 on a first time ANYTHING is just not going to be the same experience as dropping $2400 on the piece of kit you KNOW is exactly what you want.

[@mortgagebuzz5762]

That is so funny I had no idea everyone thought 6-24 was a good thing. Every elk and deer for me has been at about 4x and every now and again at 6x. So a 3-9 is great. I want illumination with very good control I want it MOA and good glass and coatings the end. I think nitrogen purging helps so I like it with binoculars.

[@baobo67]

Exactly MB. Bought a Bushnel 3 - 9 about 6 years ago and got the lens coating waterproof etc etc and very happy. I,m usually around 6 x depending on conditions. 24x is spotting scope power. Recommended my model to a friend buying one now but all their models have changed so have no idea what they are like. Mine was made in Japan and the optics are terrific.Cheers

[@YesItsWitticus]

This was a breath of fresh air for a younger dad on a budget.

[@joehuff4025]

I’m running a crossfire 2 3-9/40 on a Remington 700 .223 with a 161/2 inch barrel, it’s all the scope I need for this particular gun.

[@williamlittle5404]

Haha the one scope they ragged on for deer hunting is the one i run on my 7mag. Crossfire 2 6-24x50 love that scope. Yea it isnt great at long range but for out to 300 and using it for looking glass past that it works great

[@erikbogerman2048]

The crossfire 2 is a great scope.. very clear. I got it on sale for under 200.00 and im in no way disappointed.

[@benrent6625]

I just got one for my AR for hog hunting. Glad to hear it. I mounted it and she looks and feels like it's going to work well

[@abdullaex4119]

From cheapest Vortex model to the most expensive model. 1. Where is your glass manufactured? 2. What coating do you us on your lenses? Is this done in the US? 3. Are your scopes manufactured, assembled, adjusted and tested in the US of A? 4. What country do your imported parts come from, if any? 5. From your cheaper scopes (please specify models) to your most expensive models, what glass/coatings are used for each higher grade model scope? Many Thanks Peace from Texas

[@JoshSmith-vj3yb]

350 legend with a 2-7x32 is perfect for a "shotgun" setup. It's works awesome for shots on the run but 100-150yds shot is no problem.

[@msa4548]

Really enjoying your channel. It's not a Vortex but I'm going with a Leopold VX-6 2X12 for my 375. It's being built for a once in a lifetime hunt in Alaska for bear and moose. It's low enough power for up close but can also allow for the usage out to 400-500 yards.

[@shadowteamoutdoors8746]

I've got a savage axis in 22-250 that was my first gun, with a Tasco pronghorn 3x9 scope. My dad gave me the scope a decade ago and I couldn't tell you how long he had it before me. It a good scope for 100 and in, but at my shooting level it leaves a lot to be desired in features, but for where I hunt its hard to justify upgrading.

[@darrellblanchard2362]

If it works don't fix it.

[@saltycowboy8900]

Well what’s cool about Wisconsin hunting is a Crossfire 6-18 might push my shortest shots to 60-70, however we still allow pistol hunting and a 6.5” 44Mag will back up close shots(disclaimer on that is to read yearly regulations to make sure you follow all laws pertaining to this type of hunting).

[@jamesfarmer63]

Here's my situation, i live in NE,GA, but my daughter is moving me and my wife to Vermillion SD, and i have a 338Lapua magnum,and i plan to hunt a Bull ELK, and mule deer, and prong horn too! As well as Large Black Bear 🐻, and one day plan to go on a life time Brown Bear 🐻 hunt in Alaska,, I've got stage 4 colon cancer so these hunts are on my bucket 🪣 list, i can live a lot longer but i will be on my chemotherapy the rest of my life, so do you have any advice for me on the scope i need?? It Will go on my MDT,LSS XL savage 338Lapua Magnum?

[@subwart1]

This was great! Wondering what rings and ring height he is using on the Rem 870 Rifled barrel slug gun on that 30mm tube, currently have the stock 1", but now I'd consider that Crossfire II 1-4 x24 30mm , he nailed the situations we face for deer hunting in our area

[@newerest1]

god i love this podcast. vortex please keep making this stuff

[@ThrowingItAway]

I love my Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 FFP on my 22-250 Tikka. I'm not shooting out to long range, bagging game isn't my goal, I just want to hit steel and other targets. The feature set on this scope is almost impossible to beat for the price and I don't think I would get more value out of something more expensive. Dialing in is easy with exposed turrets, and hold over is the same at any zoom level thanks to being FFP.

[@christianjohnson3205]

Bought a Vortex rangefinder. So very thankful you all are doing this podcast!! It’s super helpful!

[@jamesgraham828]

Grass-roots, budget hunting- shooting. I come from the budget bakery theory. I am glad you guys covered that. Jim you are dead on. I have hunted with various $65 to $100 mausers over the years while hearing I need to get a real gun. Mean while I was consistently putting deer on the table. A savage 110, with a reasonable scope, and time behind the gun will serve you just as the snobbish crap. Great podcast guys. The vortex diamond tactical has caught my eye

[@youmustvotenato]

Got a Vortex 2-7x. Cheap. Put it on my AR-15 build and it gets the job done. Shooting at 100 yards I realized I need to get better at shooting before shooting out further.

[@Wordenofthenorth]

Fantastic conversation, very helpful, thanks guys!

[@thorman944]

Looking for optic to go on my new Weatherby Accumark Mark V in 338 Lapua. Thinning down my collection and emphasizing quality over quantity. I plan on using this rifle for both hunting (primarily 150 to 200lbs whitetail deer at typical ranges of 75 to 275 yards, but once every couple years an elk hunt) and entering the ELR target shooting sport. I have been able to consistsntly produce sub-moa groups from 100 to 400 yards with el-cheapo (

[@cwolf8841]

Watch the KZbin videos of long range shooters. 2,000 yards? Things get really complicated at those distances.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

Thanks very much for the video, y'all. I have some questions of my own, about the Tikka I'd like to get into. I just don't know yet, what configuration will be final for the (chassis?) supporting the barrel and action. I know that I don't personally want the Lite body, I know that I'm looking for what you described, The right options for my specific style and person. Thanks again.

[@Lenny-de6df]

Im in my 70s and I've always been told to buy the best scope you can afford. If thats 50.00 there are 50.00 scopes out there if you can afford a thousand dollar scope good for you. I have a Burris 4.5X14X42mm and found it on sale at Bass Pro for 169.00 its a tack driver out of my Savage Axis.

[@Joeatsaco69]

Great vid. My 1st Vortex was a Diamondback Tactical for my 6.5Cre. It’s a longer range hunting rifle. Then I wanted a Vortex for my 7mmMag. So I got the StrikeEagle for my 7mmMag. I like the addition of the zero stop. My GF has a Copperhead 2 with a second focus plane. Now we want to stretch our to 1000. I found that her scope max MOA is like 475 for her 6.5. I also found that my MOA for the strike eagle to 1000 is 27MOA but it has 42MOA of adjustment in the dial plus another 38MOA in the reticle. I now have the scope to get out there. My 6.5 also has the MOA on the dial to get out to 1000 plus what’s in the reticle. The Diamondback tactical is great but no zero stop. Is a great scope. My 7mm with my Strike eagle with zero stop exceeds my needs. So in a long winded way. Buy 1 level up from what you need. 1st focus plane is now a must. Zero stop is now a new must. Buy once cry once is my new rule.