Ep. 139 - The Classic 30-30

[@johnseptien3138]

Some quick notes: The 7-30 waters was brought forth and SAAMI was probably "nudged" by Warren center as to allow it to be used in the "Production" class and also "Standing" class in the IHMSA competitions. Both classes required a factory production pistol, barrel no longer than 10" and therefore a production factory ammunition was required. Shooters were experimenting with the 30/30 case necking it down to .284" diameter with no other modification. They were using 14" barrel contendors in the unlimited class which allowed wildcat chamberings. The concept was to get SAAMI to accept the cartridge and then shooters could cover three of the four classes in IHMSA with one cartridge. It happened and worked and then the 7mm TCU came on the seen and the Waters slowly faded. Ken Waters designed it the rest is ancient history.

[@jasonwhite6682]

Fun fact: if you remove the blue tip from a 110g or 130g Barnes TTSX it'll work just fine in a 30-30, and the hollow point is wide enough to not have a chance at igniting the next round in the tube. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[@scotteger6271]

Is the tip difficult to remove? Any tips on easy removal?

[@jasonwhite6682]

@ pretty easy to remove actually. I use a Kelly clamp and that has seemed to work the best

[@wesleyherring9870]

Great podcast ! I am 61 and still have my dad’s model 94 Winchester 30-30 . I was hunting with him when I was 5 years old and remember him shooting a deer with that 30-30 , dropped him in his tracks. Thanks for the time and effort you guys put in to these podcast. I have watched every one at least 2 times and some 5 times.

[@33journeyman]

As a huge 30-30 lever action rifle lover I really think the Industry is currently missing out on them not being chambered in Bolt action rifles. Case in point is my Remington 788 bolt action chambered in 30-30. With much better barrel bedding , longer barrels, and iron sights along with much faster lock time this is an invaluable hunting tool. You would be surprised by the accuracy and do all characteristics of a light fast acting rifle that really teaches MPBR to ethical hunting distances. It's really the American Safari rifle from Varmints to Deer and Black Bear. If this rifle was brought back they would sell very well as the tide is slowly turning against against the long range bomb magnums as most Deer and game are taken 200 yards and in. Btw , selling rifles without iron sights is like buying a car without a steering wheel. Great video btw....

[@wdtaut5650]

Rem 788 and Savage 340 were very good bolt action .30-30s. Bolt action is not as fast second shot as a Model 94 but they are darn accurate and can take spitzer bullets without fear. A Savage Axis would be priced way under the new Marlins and Winchesters. Lots to consider there. Also, Savage Model 24 over-under was available with .30-30, about as compact as a deer rifle could get.

[@33journeyman]

@wdtaut5650 Set a Pie plate up at 60 yards and take 3 successfull shots while timing yourself with a lever and a bolt action rifle . The results might surprise you. And then let a friend or two run the same exercise on the clock while you observe. While the split times maybe faster with just running the lever and pulling the trigger the shooter still has to make target acquisition and hit the intended target. There are many accomplished bolt action afficieandos that are incredibly fast and accurate. Townsend Whelan wasn't the only either.

[@wdtaut5650]

@@33journeyman You are correct. I mean when I run a bolt action I can't do it as fast as I can run my lever guns. It would be a fun exercise and, when we get past winter, I think I'll try it.

[@33journeyman]

@@wdtaut5650 Sounds good. I'd like hear about your observations. Keep us posted this Spring.

[@ethan5.56]

I have an old Stevens 325b bolt action 30-30 made in 1948. It has 4 round detachable box mags and supposedly they have surplus WWII machine gun barrels. I’m going to try to get a deer with it next season. I’m sure she has taken her fair share of deer in her day though haha. It’s a very handy lightweight rifle and I love it. Found it in a pawnshop in Missouri and grabbed it cause I had never seen a bolt action 30-30. Great video

[@8208isfun]

Another great Hornaday podcast and a cup of coffee. Best way to start the day!

[@tristanpedersen9056]

I've taken a fair few Wisconsin whitetails with a 150 SST in a savage bolt action 30-30. My dad still has one. Phenomenal rifle in an all time all-star cartridge.

[@mr.fridggyyy5826]

Thanks for the podcast. Ill renew my request for the 35 whelen

[@rontribbey9038]

I like it ,its needed for a lever 30-30. I have wanted this for a long time.😊😊

[@guyminer3168]

Took a fat muley doe at 170 yards with a handloaded 160 gr Hornady FTX. One shot, quick kill. Complete penetration. Used a Henry lever action rifle and a 2.5x Leupold scope.

[@richardjones1220]

Loved this discussion guys. I have a Remington model 788 bolt action .30-30 that is amazingly accurate. I also have a Marlin 336 and two different Encore barrels. One of those are threaded and I have some of your new sub x bullets. Can’t wait to try them out.

[@peterkolovos3079]

Wow, you just brought up a fond memory. My first rifle was a Savage Model 170 pump in .30-30 Winchester in 1971. I also reloaded my empty brass cases with IMR 3031.

[@rosshill2565]

Father shot a 30/30 contender just like you were talking about. It was the late 70's early 80's. He was a three time State Champ in open sight. How he hit the rams at 500 yards and just front and rear sight. He told me and showed me as a pre-teen and early teenager how he shot it by tilting the barrel up and having markes on the barrel to line up the rear sight too. Cool, how you mentioned the T/C contenders and the 30/30 being a big part of the shooting world then.

[@sethmatherne7012]

Boy can I testify to the effectiveness of the lever revolution! It is a beast! When I take my 30-30, that's what is inside.

[@sethmatherne7012]

Dropped my first rifle kill whitetail with one. Went 30 yds and dropped. Amazing effectiveness especially within 100yds. Absolutely love it!

[@gman4785]

I killed my first whitetail buck 50 years ago with a 30-30. It was an open sight Savage Model 340 bolt action. The front sight was so thick it covered up half the deer. The local store that sold ammo would sell you individual rounds as most people couldn’t afford a whole box. I don’t miss those “good old” days.

[@rogercarlton4385]

I did a 30-30 Ackley Contender with 14” barrel. I could push 150’s at 2385 fps using Varget, which was a significant improvement over the standard 30-30.

[@trikelife4960]

Such an iconic cartridge and the very first centerfire rifle I shot. I still have that 1961 Marlin 336 bought by my grandfather, passed down to my father and then me. I also have a Marlin 1893 made around 1907-1908. Very nice rifle and shares some similarities to the 336. It weighs about 6 1/2 lbs and with the crescent buttplate, the recoil is much more noticeable. Surprising even. I love that old girl. Marked .30-30 and "Special Smokeless Steel" with lines and styling you just don't find on newer leverguns.

[@neilsaylor868]

1949. 9432 win special. It was my grandfather’s that I have used since I was 15. I’m 60 now.

[@im_organic_mojo]

DUDE I WAS LITERALLY LOOKOUT FOR A 30-30 video! Its my only rifle so im drastically looking into ammo before contemplating switching rifles

[@BrettRobertson-qx5uu]

Remington core lokt

[@jeffpendrey2751]

While I may have a "few" rifles in a "few" calibers, living in Georgia and loving deer hunting above all others, I find myself grabbing my Marlin 336 30-30 90% of the time! I used to shoot 150 gr. Power Points. I love Hornady ammo and love the LeverEvolution line. My greatest concern is for people like myself who leave every gun loaded, I'm concerned about round #2 & up leaves the tips bent & I don't know the longer term effectiveness of the accuracy stretched out shots between 150-200 yards? I have a healthy inventory of Power Points, but with the increase in ammo prices over the last decade, I don't know if this round will fit into my methodology? I don't have to trail deer! Maybe I should switch rifles and calibers to be able to utilize non-tubular magazine? I'm just old fashioned and tend to stick with what has served me well for the last 41 years! I have recently picked up a Henry Long Ranger in 6.5 Creedmoor and have been checking out Hornady's ELDX line of ammunition. I had hoped to take a trip out West with it, but that's not going to happen as planned due to health problems. Maybe it's a good excuse for a change in my Georgia whitetail gun? Any thoughts on my ammo concerns and choice on the 6.5 Creedmoor? We also have hog and coyote problems that I usually resolve with a .223 or .308 depending on what I've got the closest. I'm open to suggestions? Thanks for another great video! FYI... I'm not a reloader although I sure wish I was with today's prices!

[@Nuts546]

Definitely looking forward to a Savage 99 episode

[@davidlaney8254]

I suspect some of us can trace our love for lever guns back to when we found our first Daisy under the Christmas tree.

[@hornady]

Good point!

[@moushunter]

When you lived in a small town away from the big city the local hardware store or general store stocked a few calibers of ammo. Shotshells, 22long and 22 long rifle, then 30-30. A lot of people would buy one box of rifle ammo and it'd last 3 or more years.

[@kevincolonel3070]

Last years whitetail buck was taken with my Glenfield 30a in 30-30 using 150gr Winchester PowerPoint at 130yds. I have taken hogs as far as 270yds with the same load. I'll be loading 160gr LE's using LE powder this year. I mounted a Leupold 3-9x40 vxii on see thru rings. I love being able to use steel sights for close-up shots. FYI, the Saami pressure for 30-30 is 42,000.

[@onebadjack1313]

Great topic, iconic rifle round. Please update qith a dive into 300Ham'r, designed to be a modern 30.30 in the ar platform with a standard bolt face. My 18" is pushing 125gr Sierra pro hunters at 2550fps and pretty dang accurate. Not quite 1/4 MOA all day though!

[@chadperry4021]

I wanna build a 18” howa mini in 300 hammr.’ I bet it would be fun.

[@onebadjack1313]

@chadperry4021 that would be pretty awesome

[@redleg1013]

My first whitetail was with my grandfather's 1954 Model 94 30-30, that doe dropped in her tracks 60 yds away in the woods.

[@im_organic_mojo]

I’m 27. Got my 30-30 when i was about 16/17 years old. Everyone around who talk’s rifles tells me i oughtta upgrade and get some monster rifle but honestly im 5’8 125 so my marlin 336 is nice for me. Im not looking for a rifle i shoot twice before my arms caput

[@MrTacklebury]

Savage did a bolt action also in the 340 line in .30-30. The guys I know that use these Savage rifles like the ease of finding the rifle and less kick than .308. Forgot that Stevens did the 325 model also.

[@MatthewK316]

I love the 30-30. I own a Marlin 336, and a TC Contender chambered in it. The Contender is by far one of my favorite guns to shoot. It has a 10" barrel, with a factory muzzle brake. A quick point to be made about the 30-30 Ackley, the velocity increase may not be all that spectacular, but by having the chamber reamed to the AI version of the cartridge, case life is increased and the need to trim the brass is reduced for the hand loader. My Contender may just receive that treatment in the future. Just some food for thought!

[@MatthewK316]

Please please please give the Savage 99 it's own show!

[@mikemyers8538]

I have my father's old 1894 chambered in .25-35 made in 1915. It is the reason I began the journey into reloading as that cartridge was unobtainium at the time I got the bug to shoot it.

[@stephencarmichael5156]

With all the options available I still run the 30-30 in the woods for a few hunts per season just to add to the generational deer count it has taken.

[@BrettRobertson-qx5uu]

Same here! I like your style

[@stevechambers4810]

Rem 788 was also chambered in 30-30 .

[@WayStedYou]

and the savage 340

[@jesseolsen7033]

When will we see 32 Winchester Special in leverevolution again?

[@giledgar1948]

I greatly appreciate the more technical discussions of all things guns, ballistics, bullets, cases, powders, primers, etc. I would very much like to see a series of discussions on Milliradian scopes and "MRAD reticles." What are all the formulas, tips, tricks, and methods used to gather the absolute maximum information which can be gleaned from this system? Leave MOA for another discussion. Thanks, gil

[@The340king]

I have a 30-30 bolt action rifle. They're still king of the forest, where long shots are rarer.

[@DanielReyes-hz1qk]

I hand load your 160gr FTX for my 1949 vintage Winchester model 94, with the 30 WCF stamp on the barrel

[@chipsterb4946]

What powder?

[@DanielReyes-hz1qk]

@@chipsterb4946 I've used TAC, Benchmark and 8208XBR. I've got a ton of Benchmark so I usually just use that

[@chipsterb4946]

@@DanielReyes-hz1qk thanks

[@offroadsoda]

IMR3031 still popular. Best propellant for my 45-70 lever gun, which i prefer over the 30-30.

[@adriangomez182]

Lmao haven't actually watched the podcast for a minute, I looked down and realized Holy cow he has some handle bars now

[@texpatriot8462]

Great podcast.

[@hornady]

Much appreciated!

[@taylorharbin3948]

I wish I could use my 30/30 in Arkansas, but we’re limited to straight wall and slugs.

[@anti8.6]

Savage 340 was a bolt action 30-30, I would guess the few bolt action's in 30-30 were mainly made because of the low cost to make them compared to a lever action.

[@tristanpedersen9056]

My understanding is they were using left over machine gun barrels after the second world war, they would have been made until the stock of barrels dried up. I have hunted with one many times, using 150 SST hand loads.

[@davidlaroche8928]

Legendary cartridge. Excellent on the Pacific coast jungle for black tail deer. My Ruger Marlin 1895 is a hammer with Hornady 325FTX - 45-70

[@yukon4545]

Eben at EABCO patterned his BRM line of wildcats after the 219 Donaldson Wasp, a wildcat itself of the 30-30. I have a 6.5 BRM. 4 deer.👍

[@mkshffr4936]

25-35 is another underrated cartridge. Great for anti-personnel and varmints.

[@RealShadowsock]

Great podcast, as usual. Through several of your podcasts, there has been talk og putting x/y coordinates and other parameters into an Excel sheet in order to aggregate an accurate sighting of a gun, sd, mean radius etc. Would it be possible to make such a sheet publicly available for those of us who might be somewhat Excel competency resistent? Keep up the good work!

[@Winchester_94]

I got a 25-35 and I am resizing 30-30 brass for it

[@moushunter]

I think it was Stevens that had a 30-30 bolt action rifle. I have a Remington slide action from way back in the 20s that shoots a 32 Remington cartridge that is essentially the same as the 32 Winchester Special but without the rim. I use 32 Winchester Special dies and data to load for the rifle. They also made the 30 Remington that used a rimless case that matched the 30-30. Most of the brass I use for the 32 Remington is 30 Remington fireformed up to 32. The slide action has a tubular magazine that offsets the bullet and primer in the cartridge ahead of it so pointed bullets could be used. There was a semi auto version that required round nose bullets for a straight tube magazine. Fun rifle to shoot but the action is sloppy as all heck! I've been told that was the way they were made.

[@jwhodson]

Any thought of making a mono flex for the 44 mag??

[@WayStedYou]

They already do, 200 grain handgun hunter

[@clintoncampbell236]

Dude 😂 By 1895 the pioneers in wagons was basically just a memory. Same thing with the Buffalo and the Indians . Please I love lever guns , but do some research on the times of what you are talking about . Now the late 1890’s and early 1900’s gold rush in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska , those guys loved the 30WCF . It was praised for it’s performance on bears , wolves , moose , elk , and other wildlife. The 30-30 is a legend in the Mexican revolution in the 19 teens as a amazing man killer they even have a song about the 30-30 and it still has that legendary spirit in Central America and Mexico to this day . Even now the 30-30 is better than ever given modern ammunition and the world of aftermarket add ons and accessories it’s a great time to embrace your American heritage and buy yourself a lever action rifle don’t wait, go buy one today.

[@deanohit]

I remember reading the .30-30AI had the highest percentage performance increase over standard out of all the AI cartridges

[@yukon4545]

My Bergara 6CM shoots under 1/2 moa with a varmint grenade....IMR3031!!! I couldn't believe it either. No load workup, just goofing around. 😅

[@pillscottvt6628]

Looking for some history on the 30-30 magnum.

[@darrelljones3382]

Request for the Classic 300 Savage (Remington Model 722/ Remington Model 700- Classic model) and of coarse the popular Savage 99. Please 😊

[@devincook3278]

Us PA Appalachians love us a dirty-30.

[@mr.mr.3301]

Wonder why there is not a +p rating for some of these old cartridges.

[@chipsterb4946]

Good question. A modern Marlin 336 is certainly more robust than older Model 94s. Hornady and Sierra both show separate data for some cartridges, such as .45-70.

[@k9six185]

Like the oh brother where art thou mention

[@shawnrasmussen9994]

I have several BF Arms falling block pistols that were made in Grand Island. And one of them is chambered in 30-30 Can you do an episode on BF Arms. Information on them is tuff to find and I would think that someone at Hornady would still have someone there that could dig up some information

[@gregrehmer9069]

Derived from the 38-55 Ballard!

[@jamesmooney5348]

I love the 30-30! Vortex guys did a video on it. It was a poor and annoying video. Hope you guys do it justice.......

[@jamesmooney5348]

Just a little better coverage than the vortex 30-30 video. Can tell none of you guys actually hunt with it. No one in the office there hunts with one? But hey, at least you guys did a video on it. So 👍!

[@aaawman2280]

I took my jim marlin 30aw and turn it into a single shot several times at the range. It's very easy to get that thing to hit a man sized plate at 300 yds.

[@Albert859]

What twist rate would you recommend for a nice custom built 7PRC, proof research barrel etc?

[@hornady]

8.5 is the SAAMI twist rate. Ready to handle the heavy high BC bullets

[@Albert859]

@@hornady OK good to know thank you!

[@Albert859]

@@hornady I guess I should also mention. It will be a 24 inch barrel and I only planned to shoot the 175 grain ELDX. Would you say that 8.5 twist would still be the one?

[@1187gar]

Thumbs Up

[@keithbuesing6912]

I shoot 35 Remington 200gr hndy ftx here in Iowa now legal for deer. My son has a 30-30 160 ftx out in Utah. My question is will the tips stay "squishy" years, decades from now or will it harden like a pencil eraser after time and become a danger. TIA.

[@jrhunt414]

I load 125 sst and cut the tips off.

[@isaacctll]

I keep trying to send this as an email, but it keeps getting rejected. Not sure what's wrong, but I'll just stroke the algorithm instead. I'm wondering if you can do an episode regarding barrel wear. I know that some of the information may not be definitive, but I'm interested in learning what you guys have discovered. Traditionally, I have heard that fast bullets are "barrel burners," so cartridges like 22-250, etc will all have very short barrel life. But I'm wondering what exactly is causing the wear. Is it the friction from the bullet moving so quickly? Is it the heat from the powder? Is it the pressure? I know the real answer is that it's a combination of all those things, every barrel is different, etc but I want any info you can provide on it. Does powder really make a difference? I've heard that ball powder is harder on barrels than extruded powder because unburnt powder "sandblasts" the barrel on the way out. That doesn't seem like it's a real thing, but I'd love a comment on it. Does flame temperature matter? Winchester advertises some of their powders as having lower flame temps and they reduce barrel wear. Is that a thing? I imagine the heat from the friction is greater than the heat from the flame. Does powder burn rate matter? If a bullet is loaded to the same velocity, one with a faster powder and one with a slower powder, will one cause measurably more wear than the other? Or is it a matter of nitroglycerin content, etc that really makes a difference? Does pressure make a difference? I know it makes a difference with brass life, but does it affect barrel wear in any significant way? In a .223, if a 52 grain bthp and a 75 grain bthp are both loaded to 55k psi, would they wear the barrel out at the same rate? Would the 52 grain wear it out faster due to the velocity? Or would the 75 grain wear it out faster due to the larger bearing surface? Or would it even out since the 75 has a longer bearing surface but it's also moving more slowly? If 2 different powders are used to push a 55 grain bthp to the same velocity, let's say 3,000 fps, but 1 powder produces 60k psi and the other only produces 50k psi, does the higher pressure inherently cause more wear? Does barrel material matter? Will a 416R stainless barrel wear differently than a 4150 barrel? Does heat or velocity affect 1 material more than the other? Does a nitrided barrel have any significant advantage in barrel wear? I know that more than any of these things, it's HOW you shoot and maintain the barrel that really matters. Mag dumping 30 rounds at a time as quickly as possible with no time to let the barrel cool will surely make a bigger difference than what bullet or powder I'm using. Thanks in advance! I'm looking forward to an incredibly scientific, nerdy, and "it depends" response. :) -Isaac

[@isaacctll]

I would like to add onto this a bit. Could you please talk about what happens when a barrel gets worn out. Does the wear happen more at the throat or more at the muzzle? I have heard people talk about throat erosion, but have also heard that the rifling at the muzzle wears out first. If the wear is at the muzzle, can you cut down and recrown the barrel to keep using the barrel? Can you please talk about firecracking, what it is, what causes it, and if it's a concern? Is there a difference in wear characteristics of button rifled vs cut rifled barrels? What about polygonal rifling, 5R, etc?

[@hornady]

We've got a guest in mind that would be able to answer these questions well!

[@isaacctll]

@@hornady I'm looking forward to it!

[@mr.mr.3301]

My old Marlin does not shoot the leverlution accurately.

[@derptothemaxclearly]

First time I have ever seen this show. Question: Is this show pretty much like a long form commercial for a bunch of cool Hornady stuff? Because I am into that kinda thing.

[@TerryMcClendon-l3i]

Within hunting distances why would you want anything more than the 30 30 ?

[@stevefeldt3114]

358 winchester next?

[@chipsterb4946]

New bullet shape => shorter case Not wrong, but you need to be aware of it. There are modern bullets from Barnes and others that use SAAMI standard case length.

[@kody7316]

The Savage 99 needs to be chambered in 300 Savage and 303 Savage I agree th 250 Savage is cool but it barely falls in the top 3 sorry and talks of the BFR I got it in 30-30 and 45-70 and the nastiest my personal favorite the 444 marlin I have a inside outside cat appropriately named kitty kitty a grey fox was running at her when I had the 444 marlin in a chest holster I dropped that fox on a run with that BFR

[@jamespowell7609]

Sweet Mary mother of God, look at that mustache. Slap on a pair of oakleys and he looks like he should be playing outfield for the 1987 Oakland A's

[@alexsweet8585]

Savage 340- bolt action, and you can stick a spitzer bullet in it.

[@thesuperkat943]

Please for the love of god stop with the in-baked ads. They break up the flow so much cuz the editor who puts them in has the skills of a seven year old. No other good podcast does them either, and it’s just so jarring. I get you want to promote your stuff, but everyone who listens already loves your stuff, and if you want to promote it that bad do a mini podcast for it, and I bet every party involved would be happier. Legit my only complaint. I love this content so much especially to listen to at the end of the day but it practically ruins it for me, and probably many others, and is the only reason I don’t listen to more and go to vortex and Texas predator hunting instead