Ep 252: UPDATE- Combat Dive School in the Pipeline?

Recently the Commander of AFSOC, Air Force Special Operations Command, sent a letter to his chain of command asking for the combat dive school and qualification to be removed from the Air Force Special Warfare pipeline. Specifically affected are Special Tactics Officers, Combat Controllers, and Special Reconnaissance career fields. Obviously, this has caused a lot of flail in the communities.
Aaron and Trent have been tracking this issue since it dropped, but we wanted to get you the best possible information now that the smoke has cleared a little bit.
We are sure that the comments section will be packed with people respectfully discussing their feelings.
00:00 Trent takes the intro, and proceeds to make several bad puns
06:20 Trent and Aaron explain the reasoning behind the requests and the dive qualification
11:00 Army SF and Dive Teams
22:30 Problem 3 - Attrition rates will go down without dive school and dive training, water con stress
39:00 Check out drinkhoist.com and use code OnesReady at checkout!
41:30 AETC and removing dive in reality
51:00 Why weren't PJ's mentioned in the memo?
57:00 The Bottom Line
1:00:15 Trent and Aaron talk about the internet and how Chief Cheifed us
1:03:00 Mission Merc
Collabs:
18A Fitness - Promo Code: 1Ready
ATAC Fitness - Promo Code: ONESREADY10
CardoMax - Promo Code: ONESREADY
Eberlestock - Promo Code: OR10
Grey Man Group- Promo Code: ONES READY
Hoist - Promo Code: ONESREADY
Strike Force Energy - Promo Code: ONESREADY
Trench Coffee Company - Promo Code: ONESREADY
The views and opinions expressed by the OnesReady team and all guests are those of the team and themselves, and do not reflect the official policy or position of the DoD. Any content provided by our Podcast guests, bloggers, sponsors, or authors is their opinion and is not intended to malign the DoD, any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone.

[@charlesmandelin2499]

The stateside dive mission is real. Locally a number of years ago someone drowned in a local quarry. Not deep, 60 ft, but no vis and a metric crap-ton of boulders and things that will kill you. Local dive teams could not find her; we had PJs and SF dive team from Bragg/Pope come up (90 minutes away). Their participation was vital

[@karenrhoads1598]

I agree that the dive stuff is necessary for AF special warfare & it's important for the other branches...it's easy to overcome fear on land, it's easy to overcome the fear of jumping out of a plane, but water is a true challenge for many, & speaking as a person who almost drowned 2x I can appreciate the true challenge of overcoming & making it through the dive training...

[@johcaone]

@karenrhoads1598 just having dive Qual and accruing dive time doesn't mean the diver has competent ability. All the services have incidents of avoidable diver fatalities. There was one incident cira 2000 that almost caused the Coast Guard to shut down its dive programs and scale back their diver operational capability.

[@DariusJones05]

The dad jokes are fire! 😂 good episode as always

[@OnesReady]

Don’t encourage him. - A

[@jasonle8950]

Aaron feeling hurt he couldn't make that joke @4:34. 😂

[@OnesReady]

I legit cannot with this guy… 😂- A

[@johcaone]

Timeline 27:00 discussion of the attrition model arguments don’t hold water is 100% correct. Reason being training attrition rate model favor BMT and AETC provided AFSC initial skills training attrition that don’t have authorized student decides drop on request or self-initiated elimination option. Reducing training attrition by eliminating dive qualification as a skill level requirement is not going to result as long as the AFSC is a volunteer only AFSC that has authorized drop on request or volunteer self-elimination option in the initial skill (3-level awarding) training pipeline. This focus on training attrition completely avoids operational attrition (individuals reluctant and unwilling to perform duties to include reluctance and unwillingness to sustain fitness once mission qualified). Further, focus on training attrition ignores operational attrition. Operational attrition has many elements but for purposes of this discussion is attrition after gaining 3-skill level and required mission ready qualification of service member becoming reluctant/unwilling to perform duties, missions to include reluctance/unwillingness to sustain mission ready fitness. A factor of importance concerning fitness and attrition is not only when a qual became a skill level requirement but also when a career AFSC specific fitness standard (Tier 2, Operator Fitness) became a requirement for award and retention of AFSC. These factors are what cause AETC designate the AFSC as a volunteer AFSC which justifies the initial skills (3-level training) having a Self (student) initiated drop on request or self-Initiated Elimination option. Rand Corporation and Air Force does numerous a frequent training attrition studies but seldom do these studies and research extend to include determining how operational attrition backflows to contributing to student training attrition rates. Clearest example is CCT has a 3-level training attrition rate and an advanced skills (MFF, Dive Qual) after award of 3-skill level training attrition rate, but both combine to equal out to what exists for pararescue. Thus, the leapt to problem fix has always been let us do away with dive qual which also fixes the gender diversity problem that bit AFSOC because of CCT/STO. Reference from 2022: Air Force Special Operations Command boss Lt. Gen. Jim Slife is calling for an inspector general investigation after claims surfaced that his organization is unfairly pushing an unqualified female airman through special tactics officer training. Pararescue is somewhat (not completely or absolutely) insulated as eliminating quals and AFSC human performance specifications for this AFSC is advertising AF considers pilots expendable and not worth the money to train people and have them mission ready to rescue them when they get shot down over the oceans, rugged hazardous terrain, hazardous environments, or behind enemy lines.

[@OnesReady]

💯

[@Tokupukwawti]

Great episode! Y’all always make my morning commutes better. Appreciate you, Aaron for taking that feedback I made on the other video. All of you are inspirational in my journey. Your work does not go unnoticed!

[@SeabornProductions]

The cockiness point and why that trait is bread is such a great point. In the Q course, cadre and team mates would peer guys really low who acted that way, however, they always made it through because that cockiness, even if it’s confused for confidence is what develops that guy into a competent operator because it gives that guy a decisive and direct problem solving trait. Who gives a shit what people think about you. I don’t need to go out and have a beer with you, I need to come home to my family with you

[@johnchornyTheOnly]

Peaches isn't just here so I don't get fined

[@pnwchris2000]

Forgive me if I’m wrong but I’m new here. Peaches has a CCT background, Aaron has a PJ background & Trent has a SR background?

[@OnesReady]

Crushed it.

[@JacobJoyce1]

Will freefall probably for sure be a part of the pipeline for CCT/SR/PJ ?

[@OnesReady]

Until further notice, yes. But a year ago, that was the answer for dive school as well. The only constant is change. - A

[@karenrhoads1598]

you guys are hilarious

[@upsetters3156]

Diving for the military is hard.

[@OnesReady]

Correct.

[@rarefruit2320]

It takes a desperate man to fight another mans war

[@mattkosakowski7582]

Sorry - this all sounds like rationalization. Our fellow services want controllers, etc who are the type of people with the mindset to make it through dive school. How much pressure came from above to increase throughput by making the course easier (perhaps for female candidates)? What’s next? Get rid of watercon? (Hey, why bother, no dive school). No swimming standards? In my USAF flying role, I depended on CCT, pararescue, and the other special warfare operators. What was once the best special ops capability in the world is slowly being chipped away for cost and numbers. During my flying days, USMC pilots said they preferred PJs and CCT because they knew that the pipeline was difficult and only the best made it through. Incidentally, the same thing is happening is with pilot training. We can tell ourselves all day long that it’s smarter and better but deep down inside that’s not the true motivation. On my side of the house pilot training should have been extended with more flying hours. Instead, it’s being chopped down via UPT 2.5. But, hey, General so-and-so risks not getting another star if they push back.

[@ding_chavez7613]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to bolster the force to what we need to make a larger impact on the community by navigating around dive quals. We should send the numbers we can to dive school, but we should utilize less capable swimmers instead of sending them off to different specialties when they would make fully capable PJs. Water confidence should always be an aspect so we always have the capability to pivot.

[@johcaone]

Water confidence pertinent to swimming ability and dive quality are two different requirements. However the swim standards not only having similar origins basically unchanged since the Second World War. There are inrelated jungle warfare and amphibious warfare in the Pacfic and CBI theater causals.

[@johcaone]

It's a shame document's acquired from archives can't be posted here. However, swimming and having water confidence was instituted twelve years prior to dive be a mandatory Qual for award and renting of PJ skill levels. There are pictures of water jump training, a proficiency requirement, from the 1950s. However, as far as assessment and selection it was implemented as a practical inexpensive character and behavior assessment to cope with stress and ability to work effectively with others while under duress. For example timed under water knot 🪢 🪢 tieing and other simple to learn tasks were implemented as it didn't require employ of a psychiatrist or psychologist to cause a documented medical disqualification and the stigma of being mentally unfit or deficient. Futher there are a couple of documented hoist rescues of pilots either panicking or suffering impaired ability due to hypothermia that they either fell to their deaths because a PJ wasn't put into the water to assist or if a PJ was there to assist the pilot still unable to deal with the rotor wash and sea state.

[@NomadSupreme911]

Navy Seals are the best. Sea. Air. Land. Period.💪🇺🇲

[@libertylivesin1776]

😂

[@mountaingem6]

Nope.

[@recon0x7f16]

Space force special operations lol

[@libertylivesin1776]

Hell Jumpers boi.