[EP08] COMBAT PVP MOVEMENT! "Fighting inside the cone"

[@ZethGamer]

Hello there! Citizen ZethJack here. The poor sod who turned to be "the easy fight" and "poor guy who doesn't know what's gonna hit him" :D I was notified of my name being present in this clip and I thought I'd give you a little story. As you see, I was in Free Flight Nomad getting my grips with the game, flying a bit further out from the station when I suddenly noticed some red pips on my radar. At the time I thought those were some NPC pirates and decided to check it out. My initial excitement of noob pilot turned into a lesson of humility as I got my ass handed to me on a silver platter. Only now I realize that what I saw as NPC pirate turned out to be one of (if not the) best PvP pilots out there. I'd like to claim that I got better at flying and combat since, but that would be a fat lie - all that changed since then is that I now fly a Freelancer MAX that I affectionatelly call "The Chonker"

[@yiyang4445]

lol fun experience

[@grammer63]

I’ve watched a lot of your videos, but this is the first time I focused on your power balance and how and when you switch between sending power to your thrusters/shields/guns. Superb flying man. You’re really putting on a master class of dogfight fundamentals. Thank you for these.

[@eavdmeer]

You had me totally confused with 'cone' until you explained: 'a cylindrical cone'. That, good sir, is what we call a cylinder 😂 A cone always tapers to an apex. I guess that in this case, it is really a cone, originating in your opponent's weapons

[@Birnasuc]

Yeah, but fighting inside the cylinder sounds weird xD

[@mrbaglog]

@@Birnasuc how about “tube”?

[@Avenger__One]

@@mrbaglog yall wanna go tubeing (shooting intensifies)

[@thehoodie7740]

It is to confuse his enemies

[@cfisk85]

Dude thank you so much. I love the breakdowns, the infographics and your calm explanations. I'm actually learning a lot of terminology on things I've already been doing wild dog fighting but now it's easier for me to identify and practice certain maneuvers

[@DTOXTV]

It's easy to tell who's been watching your video's in the PU these days! Not as many easy kills out there. Keep doin' the lords work man.

[@Avenger__One]

Love you brother

[@deepmind299]

One recommendation: try to find a way to show what your sticks and pedals are doing during part of your tutorials. Maybe a little graphic at the top corner with arrow indicating what your doing at each piont in time. It would make it easier to really conceptualize what is happening.

[@flippington9007]

BlackMaze used a neat little widget to show his current joystick position in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3zTqXZ3lN-Dp9E (linked in the description). Something like this would be great in these combat videos.

[@Avenger__One]

I have my input overlay for all sticks now if you come to stream ;)

[@DocShevek]

That little 3D Axis called GSAF tells you where his thrust is. You can tell what he is doing by looking at that.

[@deepmind299]

@@Avenger__One thanks appreciated :)

[@flippington9007]

@@Avenger__One thanks alot! I just discovered it in one of the Jumptown wars videos. Great timing now that my alphas arrived :D

[@marksmee15]

Hey Avenger, your mind set is amazing and calm. I'm loving your work and its absolutely transformative and helpful when it comes to learning how to fly combative. Are you able to give some insight on incorporating missile into a combat strategy and how signals and the 3 forms of missile signatures differ?

[@Avenger__One]

It's on the list, but also watch my video "the perfect shot"

[@richski8061]

Would love to see a video description (possibly with visual aids) of your control inputs for each maneuver.

[@malachi8151]

Love your calm and thoughtful commentary during the fight...kinda reminds me of Growling Sidewinder lol

[@Avenger__One]

I modeled my channel after him ;)

[@matthewtalty4401]

Yo Avenger, thanks for another good lesson. Is this something that you won't have precise control over if doing these tactics on a keyboard and mouse? Seems like we just have Q & E to roll with and no sensitivity controls with it.

[@subklueless]

Wow. I need to learn how to not look at the lead reticle. I also need to get my arrow back.

[@Avenger__One]

Lag pip bruv

[@GrandPhenom]

Awesome bro!

[@whydakk]

This movement at 11:43 is a masterpiece.

[@sttosin]

You used backstrafe & wobble in the same video. What is happening : ) ?

[@joshm3484]

Is that the same as a firing arc? Ie, stay just outside of his firing arc?

[@piedpiper1172]

I love your content, but one suggestion: Spend like, $15 on model air planes and sticks. Build them, glue them to the sticks. Now you can really easily demonstrate relative movement in 3D.

[@Bad_Pizza]

Great info professor!

[@kirillbagrov2445]

I love your videos, but please mention what kind of ship you are flying in that video. Can you also mention your nick in SC.Thanks

[@Avenger__One]

I am flying my favorite fighter, the Anvil Arrow

[@spacecowboy4804]

Great content!

[@elderith3244]

so what you call the cone is a cylinder that is rightly the size of the bubble?, that extends in front of the enemy ship?

[@leoreaper3100]

Awesome information as always, more data to absorb and more hours to practice it. I do have one question though, how do you read the opponent’s movements and react to them so fast? I thought I was missing a HUD element or something that provides the information but that isn’t the case. Any insight would be awesome!

[@Avenger__One]

Watch my video called target prediction "BUCCANEER"

[@bitterslol]

Figured with it being my one year anniversary in the game that I would f&@# around and find out and wound up in a video :| good fights brother

[@Avenger__One]

Yeaasss brother, but you fought well AND you were one of the only brave people too fight. 55 ppl in server I'm lucky if I get more then 2 fights, most SC players are more interested in making excuses then facing the facts

[@ducktheripper164]

Amazing content. What's that ship at the start of the video?

[@Avenger__One]

Hurricane

[@ahmedabdulkareem4683]

this is fighting at the Edge of The G FORCE limit...!!!!!

[@IT_ODIS]

Would you consider making one of these using a more sluggish ship? I have trouble following when everything happens so fast.

[@shawnbrackett1021]

Why is the targeting square so far off during every clip? I don't understand that. Does it struggle to keep up at this distance and your experience is just telling you where you need to be aiming?

[@matthewtalty4401]

I was thinking the same thing the first couple times watching the video. I forget which is which but theres Lead Pip and Lag Pip. We're used to the default of aiming at the little square target box (the pip) I think he uses the lag pip, where he puts that little target box (the pip) on his opponent. If you rewatch and pay attention to where the pip is in relationship to his target you'll see what I mean. Or maybe I'm 100% wrong and giving you false information. Please correct me if I'm wrong anybody!

[@Adrian890722]

I thought u had to put your cursor on the red circle to calculate the bullet lead?

[@Avenger__One]

I'm on lag pip

[@iremembersleep3083]

I remember making this approach my go-to since Freespace when I was maybe 15. Zippy spin around their guns then flip around and blast them in the ass. Corkscrew of Doom.

[@quicksilver-vv768]

What control scheme are you using?

[@Avenger__One]

Go to stream and type !Specs

[@BillyFrench]

How are you managing your power like that?

[@arhontas47]

i'd love to know as well, if it's manual switch to 100 on each or a some kind of macro

[@Avenger__One]

Watch my video on power management I just released

[@arhontas47]

@@Avenger__One thanks my dude will do

[@Bacon-oj3cm]

Can you add a key tracker so we can see what you're pressing and at what time?

[@Avenger__One]

Come to stream brother, it's all there

[@alexanderellwood8952]

Any tips for this maneuver on kb+m? Will switching mouse x axis to roll help?

[@mndeg]

What are your settings for look ahead or free look, whatever you're using to look at enemies when they fly by?

[@Birnasuc]

he's using head tracking (don't remember exactly the device, not tobi tho xD )

[@Avenger__One]

Track IR5 with pro clip, come to stream and see for yourself

[@Hole_In_Head]

Fun fights! o7o7o7

[@TomOliverez]

Isn't this cone stuff just the same advice as sayin shoot where your target is heading like everything else? All the other stuff you mention about how to stay in front is super useful. So if you're having trouble describing "the cone" then you don't need it, your points still stand, you don't have to try and force a catchy fighter pilot term to use. Say put your thing in front of their thing and this is how. Or not, it's all good, rock on citizen! O7

[@Avenger__One]

Idono man like I say in the video it's how I visualize it, if it don't work for you don't use it lol

[@TomOliverez]

@@Avenger__One Haha, don't get all snarky with me, young man. I only commented cause you asked for feedback on the cone concept in your vid. If my advice doesn't work for you, don't use it, lol. But seriously, still a great watch man, hope I don't go up against you in the verse! 🤘😄

[@psychotoddler2149]

1. I notice that you use lag pips. Is that just preference or is there a particular advantage? 2. You are typically pulling about 14 Gs keeping the cone. When they implement G force effects I wonder if this strategy will be valid. Great video!

[@briangeorgebowes]

They're in there. You just need to pull more G's than that and have G-lock without boost disabled. I think they should change the # because wouldn't taking a sustained 14 G's be....bad? I take turns in my M50 that nearly black me out.

[@Avenger__One]

I do start to black out, but I roll cancel and reset

[@butmunch19121993]

I just cant roll like you do i always end up over doing it i cant get use to the sensitivity and with the always pitching up + being bad at rolling it feels like i got worse. Ima stick with it but fk i learn slow

[@taylordarland8772]

9:54 you mean a cylinder.

[@ahmedabdulkareem4683]

Brah pls make a Hornet video .

[@Avenger__One]

Lol breh there are 86 episodes and 4 of them are hornets 😄 🤣

[@ahmedabdulkareem4683]

@@Avenger__One Iam goin for them all 😍

[@WarlockSRB]

Any suggestion for n00bie what to use with Avenger Stalker? Hate using ballistics since I use them pretty quick up... Currently running with: 2x SnowBlind Coolers QuadraCell PowerPlant Atlas Quantum Drive 2x Mirage Shield Generators FL-33 Cannon 2x CF-227 Badger Repeater 8x TaskForce I Missles I still depend a lot on auto-gimbal fighting, since I use mouse and keyboard... planning on utilizing my DualSense in few days, just to see how it will go... Thanks

[@KindredBrujah]

All weapon types are normalised just now, so it really doesn't matter what you slot within a given type. If you're using m&kb, laser repeaters are probably the ones to go for as they're more forgiving of misses and gimballs are not super accurate. If you're mostly up against bigger targets (say Cutties or Ares Starfighters) cannons are probably fine, but be aware that it's possible to outrun cannons at high speeds - the cannons (laser and ballistic) only fire at 700m/s. If you've got an opponent looking to joust, they might well be able to outpace most of your shots, so you'll need to be accurate to hit them on approach.

[@KindredBrujah]

So for specific suggestions, just swap the FL-33 for a CF-337 Panther whilst you're using gimballs, then uprate them all by one slot with fixed once you can do that. Oh, and if you haven't already, swap to lag pips. Difference is night and day for fixed gun accuracy.

[@WarlockSRB]

@@KindredBrujah sorry for bother, lag pips? bit of new here :) Thanks...

[@KindredBrujah]

@@WarlockSRB No problem! So the pip describes the small circle or open box [ ] which shows where your guns will shoot. They are based on the difference between yours and your target's velocities. Lead pips are ahead of the target, so you look at the pip and you want to get your crosshair to sit on top of the pip when you shoot. Lag pips run behind the crosshair and you want to move so the pip is on top of the target when you shoot. The advantage of lag pips is that you are spending more time looking at the target, so will react more quickly to changes in their movement, making you a better pilot, not just with accuracy, but also evasion. You should, I think, find the setting under something like 'default targeting behaviour' in the general options of the settings menu. Edit: Oh, and you'll only see either pip in-game when you have another ship actually targeted, since it needs to know what other ship's velocity to use to calculate the pip position.

[@WarlockSRB]

@@KindredBrujah would Avenger Warlock be any good vs PvE Bounty Hunting? I'm using Avenger Sentinel as of now, and I can beat HRT targets mostly without a problem, now considering Warlock has EMP that could bring down shields and maybe even other components? BTW lag pip is awesome, target always visible :)

[@Brenelael]

And pick your shots. Trigger discipline is key to winning as if you still have Cap left after your opponent has sprayed and prayed his all away you're gonna win every time. Don't pull the trigger until you are going to hit something and stop as soon as you are not hitting anything. This seems like a simple no brainer but I see people pissing their Cap away time and time again spraying shots that don't have any chance of hitting anything.

[@leadpipejustice9253]

Fought you yesterday at daymar om1, w the navy on you and 4 other bogies. I had a redeemer, the only way i didn't die was from the 30k that happened shortly after

[@mavor101]

Light fighter "in the cone" dogfighting like this is going to be dominated by pedal + HOTAS users. Hope that CIG offers an alternative style of play for M/K users that doesn't require heavy investment in out-of-game equipment.

[@Avenger__One]

De couple gimbal and kite

[@mavor101]

@@Avenger__One Yes, that works well for heavy fighter and gunship combat, but light fighter "in the cone" dogfighting is about continuously pitch and yawing, which is much easier to do with a good pedal + HOTAS setup.

[@Mejfkl]

Make a video how to fight with Hotas. Or at least experiment. Will you loose then all battles? :) It s starting to be boring to see you always win.)

[@Cosmic_Fodder]

How nice that none of this applies anymore effectively ruining my interest in dog fighting practice in general.

[@Crackpunch]

Could you draw some diagrams to help show what you mean?