Ep145: LGBTQ, Married, and Mormon: Same Sex Couples Share Their Real Stories

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Күн бұрын

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@LeeGrupsmith 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for inviting my husband "Tyler" to participate. It's been a long journey for him--leaving the Church, finding a new home for a while, then deciding to try to come back. Back at the beginning I told him a paraphrase from Ruth: "Where you go, I go", so I attend with him and he comes to synagogue with me. One custom of mine he has readily adopted is the lighting of a yahrzeit candle on the anniversary of a loved one's passing. He now observes the passing of his parents in this way. Passover is another one that resonates with him. For his part he shares his family history explorations with me and never runs out of stories from his mission days.

@rebeccabibliotheca 6 ай бұрын

It was wonderful to talk to him and hear his story! We appreciate his bravery and honesty!❤

@ZakMakoff 6 ай бұрын

My mom grew up in Sherman Oaks .. California Mormons are so much more laid back than here in SLC. Tyler seems like a great guy, I loved hearing his story. Big Hugs!

@tawnyachristensen7310 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for putting these stories out there. This issue doesn't really seem real until it impacts someone you love. It has caused my family much heartbreak.

@rebeccabibliotheca 6 ай бұрын

These guys are just so wonderful! Makes me really mad to think of anyone mistreating them

@germanslice 6 ай бұрын

IF you unable to marry here in this life to a member of the opposite sex because of certain vexing trials that prevent marriage being possible here in this life then the Lord requires the law of chastity to be lived and covenants to be kept and the blessing will be given in the Millennium if its been denied here in this life having not had the opportunity. Its only those who had the opportunity to marry but had refused to marry become angles in the Celestial Kingdom they will be denied the blessing.. It does not apply to those faithful saints who have been denied the blessing here in this life because of certain trials that denied them marriage being of no fault of their own so they receive the blessing of marriage in the next life. Those saints who stay faithful to their covenants won't be denied the blessing of an eternal companion of the opposite sex. God's plan has never been an eternal companion of the same sex. The plan has always been Adam and Eve . But it is correct that same sex marriage is not recognized at all by the Lord in his Church as being an eternal relationship. So the Lord won't do the sealing of these marriages or provide dating programs for them.. So I see no indication that he will do so since the same sex attraction is temporary here in this life .. For these marriages that the Lord don't recognize are time only marriages and not time and eternity because they don't have the sealing power...

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

@@germansliceBeing gay is not a vexing trial. Living in a homophobic society is a vexing trial. Or being told a heteronormative narrative where gays don't fit in is a vexing trial. In reality, diversity is beautiful. It's so funny how Latter Day Saints loved listening to David Archuleta. He could sing these emotional songs because he is who he is. And it's no coincidence Elohim sends down two gay art directors to create this beautiful planet. 😅

@germanslice 6 ай бұрын

@@charlesmendeley9823 That is where you are mistaken for having same sex attraction is very much like a Job or Abrahamic Trial...... For there is opposition in all things.. Same sex attraction is not an eternal condition so telling the Lord to do same sex sealings make no sense if the attraction is not eternal and only exists here because of the affects of the Fall. Therefore I find it to be a vexing heart wrenching trial when I learn of others who go through it.. But the problem is the natural man and his carnal desires is an enemy to God and we have to learn to put off the natural man through the atonement and come out of that fall. Its normal to go through a fall before you can rise and overcome all things. That is what was in the plan of salvation that all will go through a fall when they come here to earth Eccl 12:6.. God knew that all will fall before they can learn to overcome and come to the same knowledge and resurrection that he has. So its normal to go through a faith crisis. But God expects us to overcome the fall through relying on his atonement. and learn how to become a saint. And put off the natural man. So seeing these two giving into the natural man to marry each other is still contrary to God's plan no matter how handsome they may look or Archuleta encouraging the gay members to rebel through mocking those like myself who continue to walk day by day faithfully on God's covenant path which I have done so for the last 30 years which he calls the task to do so imposssible I have achieved to remain active. Seeing him mocking the atonement and the Lord's standards and setting it aside as a thing of naught and setting aside the counsels also of God to walk after his own carnal ways is not good. He don't realize by writing this song of together in hell through following the dictates of his own carnal desires of the natural man hes fulfilling a self-fulling prophecy which is not of God. So this is why I have something to say about it because he has crossed a line with the Lord. You cannot fill your lamps this way by becoming a law onto yourself and walking instead in your own ways after your own desires and setting aside the counsels of God as a thing of naught for I do understand why some make that choice to leave but . The only way we can obtain the oil for our lamps is by staying on that covenant path consistently day by day and its not easy to do that for 30 years as I have.. And staying on the covenant path does mean putting off the natural man and denying his carnal desires which is what the Church teaches.

@germanslice 6 ай бұрын

@@charlesmendeley9823 That's not quite correct... The gay condition is a vexing trial for those who have it and its like the trial of Job or Abraham..Joseph Smith said that for the saints to be fit for the Celestial Glory they have to find a way to withstand all the heart wrenching that God will do whether the trial is same sex attraction or is some other vexing trial. . We're told that by putting off the natural man which the same sex attraction is part of and becoming a saint through the atonement of Christ we can overcome the appetites of the natural man of that behavior.. For God says the natural man is an enemy to him and his carnal desires and appetites have to be put off in order to become a saint..Part of the plan God also said 'We will prove them to see if they will do whatsoever things the Lord their God shall command them' the Lord wasn't kidding around. In other words you have to learn to be overcomers of the appetites and behaviors of the natural man In order to stay on the covenant path so to fill our lamps up with oil you have to live that law of chastity and stay away from getting involved in same sex relationships as God require this sacrifice of those who are not married to the opposite sex who are single and that is not an easy sacrifice to make but God requires it as part of his rules.. As far as I know the Lord won't seal same sex couples in the temple because the same-sex attraction is only temporary here in this life because of the Fall and is not an Eternal State of being.. Elder Holland said a while back to the youth in conference that there needs to be more emphasis on living the law of chastity with those who struggle with living the law chastity. Because the rules of chastity cannot be broken. That's because the eternal blessings of God are predicated on living that law. And at this recent General Conference is pretty clear to me that is what the emphasis will be more on keeping the law of chastity in order to prepare the saints to be ready when the Lord returns.. And as for these two pretty guys leaving the covenant path to marry each other or doing what Archuleta is now doing in openly mocking those who remain on the covemant path who live the law of chasity in writing his song Together in Hell, hes playing a dangerous Game with God and its is not the right direction to take that he has taken. Because following him or others off the path to go down that path won't allow us to be prepared and ready.

@perryekimae 6 ай бұрын

Shout out to my friend Bryan for helping behind the scenes. He seemed really excited to see this project come together. Thank you Rebecca and Landon for doing this. And thanks to all the guests for sharing their vulnerable experiences.

@jaredvaughan1665 5 ай бұрын

As an active member I'm in the middle. No to same sex marriage sealings. No to any excommunication of same sex couples. Just as the church does not excommunicate heterosexual couples living together outside marriage. One policy for everyone.

@thescruboaktree2035 6 ай бұрын

Wow! Amazing episode. Thank you for putting it together and to all of the brave souls who shared their heartfelt stories.❤️

@robertgrey8648 6 ай бұрын

Excellent episode!!! These awesome stories show that the majority of the LDS community - even many bishops and relief society presidents - are more than willing and ready to welcome LGBTQ into their wards and give them callings. Its DEFINITELY time to lift the LGBTQ ban!!!!!!

@mormonishpodcast1036 6 ай бұрын

I was actually surprised how much support each couple had from the ward! That was very encouraging to me!

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

@@mormonishpodcast1036 These are overdue changes on the grassroots level. This is by the way happening in almost every Christian church. As societal views on homosexuality shift from antique views to modern scientific views that homosexuality is a normal condition appearing in a certain percentage of the population, both on humans and many animal species, and that trying to live against this condition by marrying a partner of the opposite sex only leads to unhappy marriages and suffering, you will find many church leaders who are supporting LGBT members. Why not the church hierarchy? Maybe because they are over 90 years old?

@robertgrey8648 6 ай бұрын

@@charlesmendeley9823 I agree 100% 👍

@ladams2134 6 ай бұрын

Thank you Mormonish !!

@radicalkelly59 6 ай бұрын

Extremely valuable episode. Thank you all.

@mistichristensen7088 6 ай бұрын

These stories are so impactful. All these people would be welcome in my home and heart. 💛🌻

@Sadie37 6 ай бұрын

Such kind loving humans! 🌈

@goonfarb6969 6 ай бұрын

I absolutely loved this episode. My love and adoration to them all, and to you two for spotlighting it. You are amazing people ❤️

@BethJK1999 6 ай бұрын

Yep! Bishop Roulette!

@ZakMakoff 6 ай бұрын

I love this episode R & L, Please do more LGBTQ stories. I find it interesting that the first couple called it, "Bishop Roulette" Being able to take the Sacrament! Is the Church leaving it up to the Bishops to decide those things... If a Bishop ever told me I could not take the Sacrament then I would say, "Then I can't pay Tithing!" lol All these guests were very loving people, Thank You for sharing their stories!

@clintsudweeksmusic8816 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for bringing visibility to these important issues!

@robinnetto6794 6 ай бұрын

It breaks my heart what the church has done. If I can stop one heart from breaking I shall not live in vain; If I can ease one life the Aching, Or cool one pain, or help one fainting Robin Unto his nest again, I Shall not live in vain.

@kathrynclass2915 6 ай бұрын

Congratulations on the marriage!

@ngatihine6072 6 ай бұрын

With God, nothing is impossible gays should be exalted through celestial marriage.

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

Yeah! Team Kwaku & Steven Pynakker! 🏳️‍🌈🤭

@truthseeker4286 6 ай бұрын

Strange but not surprising; Biblioteca talks to these gay men in a little childs voice, like she needs to pat them on their little heads. Patronizing... like these guys are 4 years old. They're so extra special!

@rebeccabibliotheca 6 ай бұрын

You are completely incorrect. I have nothing but respect and admiration for these courageous men and women. My demeanor was one of empathy and understanding and heartbreak for the position they find themselves in. I had lengthy conversations prior to taping the episode with all of the participants and consider them friends. You are way off base here and don’t seem to understand a genuine human reaction to an extremely heartbreaking situation. I have many, many good friends in the LGBTQ community and am honored to be able to help them share their stories. Watch our past episodes on LGBTQ issues and look for a new one about the LGBTQ students at BYU next week. Thank you for watching!

@yanyanfourtwenty 6 ай бұрын

That is why mormon leadership has been pushing for the co-opting of the word "intergrity" and "love"... Especially that one talk from saturday morning...

@greghardin2394 6 ай бұрын

Charlie Bird and his partner are not the Student Body Presidents of the LGBTQ Community in the Church, please don't compare their much publicized stories with regular LGBT people in the Church... "Ward and Bishop Roulette" must be the new standard for "not taking the Sacrament!" I have empathy for all my LGBTQ peers. Great Episode, please do more like this!

@Winstanleyisbadazz 6 ай бұрын

Yall out here doing God's work

@rebeccaking4493 6 ай бұрын

Brave, brave people!! They are exactly who thy should be and it baffles me that the church is so blind that they turn away people with such talent and wisdom. It also baffles me that any of these folks even want to participate in this church that devalues them so thoroughly. I'll bet the church still accepts their tithing!

@StevenMormon 6 ай бұрын

The church actually will not take any donations for gays.

@jamesmorphe8003 6 ай бұрын

i would love to know if there is any connection between the size of their tithing, or influence of famous peoples children , to their acceptace as gay members. somehow i doubt if there was a gay osmond child who wanted full acceptance that he would be denied.

@sheliabryant3997 6 ай бұрын

@james. X 93 million 🌈🌈

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

There is nothing the Church fears more than bad PR. Thus, celebrities are treated with kid's gloves in fear of a sh*tstorm with a considerable reach.

@marys.currie9026 6 ай бұрын

David Archuleta was a big tithe payer and he wasn't allowed to live a gay lifestyle and be accepted by the Q15

@Latter-dailyDigest 6 ай бұрын

Love is LOVE!!

@sheliabryant3997 6 ай бұрын

I said this in SS in 2016 and - BEHOLD - the bishop did appear. [I didn't realize until last year it was because I had been a naughty, too outspoken 68 yr-old woman.]

@IvoneteMascara-nx6wz 6 ай бұрын

RIGHT!!!!!!!

@FourofSix 6 ай бұрын

Oh this church 😪

@2mcarp 6 ай бұрын

First, a caveat. I'm a dirty apostate and an atheist. So, I'd ideally like to see everyone leave the church (and all churches) and find other avenues to fill the social and structure needs that the church fills. That said, I liked the first couple (Austin?), but they said something that was grating to me. I think it was Austin that said that he felt personal revelation that he was on the right path. But, Elder Oaks has repeatedly said that personal revelation is only valid (I can't remember his exact words) if it is in line with your priesthood down-line revelation. Since Austin's personal revelation conflicts with Elder Oaks (and others) who are above him in the priesthood, that's a conflict that is unresolved. Personally, I'm fine with Austin's choices, but this is one of those things where it feels like Austin has in his mind a different church from what is taught on Sunday. As long as that tension exists, it will always be "leadership roulette" that determines how LGBTQ members are treated in church.

@IvoneteMascara-nx6wz 6 ай бұрын

How can the church let go of such special people with so much to contribute????? That’s NOT what the guy they follow taught!!!!! But hey, that’s the SCMC right? Makes sense… 😢

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

David Archuleta alone proves your point. 🏳️‍🌈💪♥️

@incognito137 6 ай бұрын

🤦🏼‍♀️🤔 I wouldn't hold my breath

@nancyevans3590 6 ай бұрын

Love is love!

@mariaschwab5231 6 ай бұрын

Sorry but that statement is exactly what pedophiles say as they try to worm their way into LBTQ+ community. This path is harder however for some it is the path that they must take. So in my book, love is not love.

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

Having a Jew attend Sunday school during old testament year must have been amazing! 👍

@mormonishpodcast1036 6 ай бұрын

Oh the fun you could have with that! Lol

@g1e2c3k4o 6 ай бұрын

This kind of treatment is common in socially conservative religious traditions. Homosexuality is considered an abomination. However these are according the rules and partiality of men. And with this comes hypocrisy and exposure of hypocrisy. Judge and ye shall be judged measure for measure. Interesting they want to excommunicate after resignation. This seems to be more for them, than for the excommunicants. It is like they want a record of their hate.

@mormonishpodcast1036 6 ай бұрын

My understanding is you must be disciplined in order to be rebaptized. Evidently kicking you out is the punishment rather than just choosing to leave!

@mariaschwab5231 6 ай бұрын

Wonder if he’ll com out as gay. I believe he’s closeted. My two cents.

@roberterickson2235 6 ай бұрын

sure wouldn't happen in my small Branch

@erin518 6 ай бұрын

I'm sorry, but you're all hoping for a change that will never happen. The church has been very clear where they stand on same sex relationships. Being a nice, kind, good person doesn't make the lifestyle ok. The lifestyle is a choice. Bishops are human and unfortunately can let their emotions and own personal life experiences cloud how they handle these situations. This is what causes the confusion of why individuals are having different experiences in different wards.

@dorothymilne1258 6 ай бұрын

Sad to hear. Hope your leaders get a revelation that tells you how God changed his mind, and that you’ll have to change yours for the church to not be toxic for you. I embrace you from another continent and another culture.

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

It's a silly idea that being gay is a lifestyle. It sounds that most LDS members are only married to a spouse of the opposite sex, because Jeffrey Holland approves this "lifestyle", not because they are straight. Are all Church members gay or bisexual? It is absurd.

@charlesmendeley9823 6 ай бұрын

Being gay is not a lifestyle. It sounds as if most LDS members are not straight, but are only married to a person of the opposite sex because Jeffrey Holland approved the "straight lifestyle". Do young men date and court young women because they are told so by church leaders, or are they naturally attracted to them? In the same way, gay men being attracted to other men is not a lifestyle. You're just being silly.

@erinhimes7057 6 ай бұрын

Yes bishops are human. So are the apostles and they make mistakes too. The change is coming, just waiting for the geriatrics to pass on.

@bodytrainer1crane730 6 ай бұрын

Heterosexual couples can also make a decision about their lifestyle but that doesn't mean it isn't cruel, brutal and destructive to demand people not have sex and a committed relationship with someone they love. The church will eventually change because the church always does....30 years after the rest of the U.S.