Ep182: Meditation Maverick - Adam Mizner

In this interview I am joined by Adam Mizner, internationally renowned tai chi practitioner and meditation teacher.
Adam recounts how a troubled childhood saw him begin martial arts and meditation training, and he reflects on his childhood psychic visionary experiences.
Adam discusses the nature of internal cultivation, the role of standing practice, and provides a detailed analysis of the remarkable abilities and attainments of his teacher, the Thai Buddhist Arahant, Luang Por Jamnian.
Adam also shares his current understanding about the true path of meditation, criticises visualisation practices found in Vajrayana Buddhism, questions the efficacy of tummo meditation, and elaborates on the mechanics of his famous push hands abilities.
…
www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep...
Also available on KZbin, iTunes, & Spotify - search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
…
Topics Include:
00:00 - Intro
00:53 - Difficult childhood & psychic visions
03:13 - Are psychic powers actually an ailment
04:26 - Pros and cons of psychic openness
06:10 - Beginning Tai Chi and meditation
08:09 - Hard training
08:54 - Internal cultivation is not gentle
10:37 - Becoming a Tai Chi creature
15:38 - Adam’s early training
18:20 - The power of standing practice
21:21 - Harnessing obsessive qualities for practice
23:15 - Leaving fight training
24:24 - Adam’s teachers
26:05 - Aversion to lineage
26:48 - Meeting the arhat Luang Por Jamnian
30:34 - The remarkable spiritual feats of Luang Por Jamnian
33:44 - The life and training of Luang Por Jamnian
36:39 - Beyond mind and body
38:28 - How to transcend mind and body
44:29 - Attained people vs charismatic talkers
47:42 - Different types of enlightened people
52:59 - The true path of meditation
58:41 - Cultivate stillness
01:02:42 - Learning to sit still, even with injuries
01:08:27 - Realising your limits
01:10:29 - Acclimatisation vs transcendence
01:14:46 - Adam on morality
01:18:51 - Imaginary enlightenment
01:19:46 - Critique of visualisation practices of Vajrayana
01:24:39 - The secret of metta cultivation
01:28:08 - Adam on the mirage of tummo
01:31:01 - Can authentic tummo be restored?
01:33:44 - Real transformation
01:42:44 - Practice techniques as sectarian conditioning
01:45:11 - Adam on sex and sexual practice
01:49:47 - Ejaculation and orthorexia
01:52:57 - Men vs women on the path
01:54:46 - Men’s hormonal tendencies
01:56:26 - Secret to Adam’s Fajing and push hands skills
02:07:07 - Advice for the seeker
…
To find our more about Adam Mizner, visit:
- heavenmanearth.com/en/adam-mi...
- discovertaiji.com/en
- discovermind.com/en
…
For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James

[@LotusNeiGong]

Excellent interview. Adam cuts through a lot of the nonsense around meditation and spiritual practice in general. Having spent time with him, I can certainly attest to his skill in meditation practice 🙏

[@wiwidity]

how much you both cut through nonsense you introduce even more. Many are disappointed by your approach (bashing on others) in propagating beautiful Dao and Tai Chi systems and alchemy. That happens when one expects too much. Both of you lack of "imagination".

[@spawn314159]

he gives a lot of missinformation there. you need to find a QUALIFIED guru to learn to meditate, not this quackery.

[@jamesm5192]

@@Joseph-zw6wm Best to reach out to them directly via email or something instead of in comments... It is like this when you want the attention of any professional teacher.

[@cloudcave]

This was my first listen to the Guru Viking podcasts. I listened because I am a fan of Sifu Mizner’s taijiquan videos. I see in the comments that many are saying that this was the best interview so far and all I can say is that is really disappointing. I did learn some interesting facts about Sifu Mizner’s teacher and his approach to practice, although I have heard much of this in other places. The really confusing, and disappointing part was in regards to vajrayana. By his own admission, Mizner does not know about vajrayana. Yet he has very definite opinions about it! It went something like this, “I don’t know vajrayana, but I’ve done plenty of it (visualizing). I don’t know vajrayana but the results are imaginary. I don’t know vajrayana but the practice is a waste of time. I don’t know vajrayana but Theravada meditation is dzog chen.” As for Steve, once the answer was I don’t know, he should have moved on to things that Mizner does know. That would have been interesting. Or press Mizner on his answers. Where did you learn visualization and from who? How do you know about mahamudra and dzog chen? Who taught you? How long did you practice? Where did you find the time between forest meditation and taiji to do anything else? Unfortunately much of the interview dealt with this non-issue. I would have preferred some more practical questions too, like how did you find the time to do so much intense practice? Did you not need to work? Were you supported? Are you wealthy? How did you find your Chinese teacher(s). How did gain acceptance from them ? And so on. My final question would have been, “Do you really think that people can learn taijiquan over a video link?” I have no question about Sifu Mizner’s mastery of qi, but I would like to know if he has any students who can demonstrate qi who only learned taiji entirely by video from him. I must say that I doubt it.

[@keegandonlen4933]

I think it’s very likely most of those commenters are the ones who are huge fans of this guy and also actively pay for his lessons. I’m not saying everything he says is bs and some of it definitely works and he makes great points about some things. but if you’re willing to pay 3 grand to spend a week long retreat in Thailand with him, and however much he charges for his secret special lessons, you probably worship the ground he walks on as seen in these comments.

[@PeterKoperdan]

@@keegandonlen4933 3 grand for a week and in cheap Thailand? Jesus..

[@adammizner9288]

Come on guys, at least try to get the numbers right

[@joethao2161]

It would be nice to see Adam Mizner on the Joe Rogan podcast to explain what tai chi is or even do some push hands with Joe.

[@davidsillars3181]

Another thumbnail with Lamlash Bay in the background! Very interesting views about meditation. Found Adam's Tai Chi remarks very worthwhile. One night as I was making my way home I was intercepted by a guy looking for a fight, I'd been doing Tai Chi for about 18 months at the time, nothing fighty, but I felt physically confident, and mentally had no sense of fight or flight, I kept unflinchly walking towards him as he was trying to confront me and he backed off. It was definitely a by product of the prace. So Adam's words really hit home!

[@yanasophia1955]

What a gift. Thank you so much for this chance to hear more from Adam!

[@JeromeArmstrong]

A remarkable interview with so much significant info. Many thanks.

[@cal.5081]

Amazing interview, please have Adam on again! 🙏💗

[@elliavag5349]

Wow! I have never heard anybody speak on spiritual practice in this way, he is brilliant.

[@lenwenzel7440]

Thank to you both to bringing greater clarity to practice.

[@hansoo]

This was an amazing interview. I've had the extraordinary blessing of meeting some amazing teachers in this world and Adam is definitely one.

[@NJHMhandyman]

Thank you so much for the great interview I love this straightforward no BS approach. Metta 🍀

[@tomashowlin]

Wow! This is so good 🙏 Right to the point. Thank you, the questions and follow up were great.

[@cindyengel5670]

Incredibly clear and generous. Thank you.

[@richierich291266]

Many thanks to Steve and Adam for a most interesting and helpful interview

[@jwjgreenwood9806]

As a tantrayana practitioner it’s super interesting listening to quite a hardcore Theravada view, for example how they aim to shut off the sense gates, as if phenomena are the problem! The great thing about Buddha dharma is there are different paths for different mentalities!

[@doydoy8107]

Thank you for your work, guru viking. You are excellently positioned for these great interviews, and to continue down this special digital path. This talk stands out from many good ones. For some reason, maybe Adam's core, these two hours were absorbing in their authenticity. The last word I try to use very carefully.

[@ghuyakalika]

Sooo interesting ❤ The interview I didn't know that was needed Thank you!

[@FredericZolnet]

What an amazing and interesting interview. I'm glad people like Adam and Damo exist in our space. They show what is possible and bridge the gap leaving a door of possibility open. Thank you guys.

[@ccl1195]

Thank you both for this interview. I had not heard of Adam before. This talk is what I needed to see at this point in time.

[@Prueba_Te]

Oooh, I really wanted Adam to try his Taiji skills into his very enlightened Buddhist master. I'd love to hear his take on Goenka style Vipassana, kanika samadhi where the objects of meditation is body (or mind) sensations and movements, the Qi, the concentration deepens but the object is ever moving and ever changing. You just keep dissolving non stop but you don't pump the concentration initially entering jhanas. Or in the process you enter something similar to jhana. Different teachers describe jhanas differently, Thai first are very hardcore :) Great interview!

[@40JoCharles]

Very nice interview. Will need to be rewatched many times. 🙏🏼🙂☯️

[@MonacoBlast66]

I can't wait for this one!!!

[@LoloOoo453]

What a powerful talk!!! Thank you Adam 🙏🏻 thanks a lot !

[@y2watermark]

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” - Blaise Pascal (1654), Pensées

[@michaelj.4187]

My takeaway...I am more than whatever I will be and came before I was...who am I?... I am...life is a cabaret, my friend, life is a cabaret, my friend...absolutely marvelous interview...sending love and peace to everyone...

[@Hamuera-lm1uh]

Yep, best interview yet Steve, thank you guys. Sam

[@aidantreays6497]

Refreshing clarity!

[@baizhanghuaihai2298]

Would be really fun to see Steve try some push hands with Adam. Only know him through his tai chi teaching, but very excited to hear about his others achievements and endeavors! Genuinely fascinating guy, and always comes across as legit humble and nice.

[@delongrob]

Great interview. Thanks!

[@radicalben1]

Wow, I am truly Blown Away Was mesmerised right trough

[@tidygardenbeds]

Rarely do it comment on KZbin unless someone is pointing at ideas so normal and obvious yet fundamental, thank you both for the interview!

[@JEKAZOL]

Worth a second listen! Guru Viking is a must sub!

[@brianpatterson7125]

Very interesting interview. I enjoyed and learned much 👍

[@lopezb]

Very inspiring, to get back on the real path. I have had some incredible teachers but they passed away, and life circumstances helped make me forget, though I sit daily this helps me see I have to lift my determination way up especially as I now have to be my own teacher.

[@JordanLavigneVineofLifeAlchemy]

Adam walks the walk.

[@rhendougby6432]

hilarious. 🤣

[@PhitenCH]

Thank you both of you for this interesting talk

[@coreyhess3612]

Thanks for the interview. I enjoyed it.

[@SanjaKrstic]

Excellent stuff said here. Thanks Adam! 🙏

[@spirialitytalks8324]

Beautifull intervirw,really spells out the practice of full embodiment away from what in the West and modern world we want and are prone to which is something we do in the future or living in our imagination or fantasy world which may be more comfortable and controllable than the "real" world but as Adam said by actually doing this being that instead of trying to be that before the doing....I suppose it's both simultaneously as many do charity with dark hearts and big egos,Germany imagine there own goodness without expressing or practicing it in the physical!! Much love n gratitude to both Adam and yourself fortune sharing...🙏,stephen from n.w london

[@lau-guerreiro]

Love this interview. Hadn't heard of Adam before. Love his take on meditation and his no bullshit style, although I dare say that he could infuse it with just a little more kindness!

[@adammizner9288]

The people around me might see things differently. Kindness is found in action and often in tough love

[@lau-guerreiro]

@@adammizner9288 Speaking is action. And yes, tough love is sometimes the best way. But I think we are wise to be alert in case we *like* using tough love more often than it is needed. I say this because it applies to me. Peace. I will be looking up more of your work on youtube.

[@adammizner9288]

@@lau-guerreiroindeed, and more kindness is always good.

[@lau-guerreiro]

@@Ninjaotaku At a minimum, I would infuse it with more kindness by not being so eager to say 'no' - to say something is rubbish. He's so keen that he doesn't even let the questioner finish the question - he's not even giving what-he-disagrees-with the tiny respect of allowing it to be spoken. As soon as it pokes its head up, he ruthlessly crushes it as quickly as possible. If that attitude is carried throughout all of life, it does not always produce the best result, especially when done directly to the person who is disagreeing with you. It will hurt them more than is necessary, and increases the probability that they develop enmity towards you. People, like me, who see that attitude displayed in a calm public interview, will assume that attitude is even more pronounced in a private disagreement.

[@orshaharorna.shahar8921]

The best and probably the most important interview that has been here to date! Everything that is supposedly 'controversial' is created from dogmas, degenerate traditions and weak teachers. He is simply telling the 'secret' truth - anyone who does real spiritual work must at some point leave the meditation cushion and do good and moral work in the world.

[@donovan665]

No doubt this is some kind of truth about mizner and that truth is telling.

[@JEKAZOL]

Excellent!

[@josephfranklin5083]

Great interview

[@reinhardjung8196]

Wonderful, thank you so much! I remember Ajahn Jumnien from 'Living Buddhist Masters' by Jack Kornfield. His radiant face was remarkable also then.

[@onelove7069]

I really appreciate your perspective on imagination, makes sense. The only thing I might add, is that first there can be imagination and then we act on it.

[@adammizner9288]

Yes if course, but that is not the same as taking visualization at the method.

[@davideskridge9242]

@@adammizner9288 The point of visualizations in Vajrayana is to purge oneself of ordinary appearances and ordinary concepts. The "real" that you speak of is the very thing that the Vajrayana seeks to overcome.

[@adammizner9288]

@@davideskridge9242yes I get that. I just don’t think visualizing is the right way to do so. Each to their own.

[@PeterKoperdan]

Mizner has his way of interpreting the Path and also Buddhism. He comes across as kind of a fundamentalist. But I want to offer you - the listeners - some food for thought regarding his comments on imagination. He says: [1:20:15] "If you want imaginary results, practice imagination." [1:21:05] "But it also doesn't affect ... the body properly." I won't go into some theoretical doctrinal debunking of his views. Everyone defines everything differently. Scholars can't even agree on the translation of essential Pali or Sanskrit words and new "interpretations" are used as time goes by. Arguments about words with unclear definitions make no sense. Instead I want to point out that even when we disregard personal experiences of people who have had all kinds of success with imagination, *we still have scientific research to prove Mizner wrong.* When you do some search, you will find quite a few scientific studies on the effects of visualization on the body and those effects were found to be significant. *TL;DR:* Basically, thinking/imagining/visualization affects the brain in really meaningful ways. The brain is connected to the rest of the body by neural networks. Therefore, your thoughts can have direct effect on whatever is connected to the brain by neural networks, which is all of your body. In case you believe in the subtle body, then it is also affected by your thoughts via the brain connection (the brain is connected to the subtle body). ----- SCIENCE: Our scientific understanding of the consciousness, brain and biology is extremely limited. However, there is clear evidence that there is connection between the mind (including imagination and thoughts), the brain and the body. One influences the other. Research has shown that when a person engages in visualization or imagination, there is increased activity in several areas of the cortex. For example, when a person imagines performing a specific movement, such as throwing a ball, the same areas of the motor cortex that are activated during actual physical movement are also activated during visualization. In addition, when a person imagines a scene or an object, it activates the regions in the brain responsible for visual processing and spatial navigation. It also activates other regions that process emotions and feelings, this is why visualization and imagination are thought to be effective for reducing anxiety and stress. Furthermore, research has also shown that visualization can affect brain plasticity, which refers to the brain's ability to change and adapt in response to new experiences. Visualization can activate processes that help the brain to reorganize itself in ways that support learning, memory, and other cognitive functions. An finally the well known phenomenon of placebo. Placebo effects can be quite powerful, with some studies showing that placebos can produce similar levels of improvement as active medications for certain conditions. The brain's own pain-relieving mechanisms can be activated by placebo, releasing natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Studies have found increased activity in certain brain regions responsible for pain processing when individuals are given a placebo, which can reduce pain perception. Placebo effects may not be limited to psychological and physiological processes, but can also affect biological processes. Placebo can change inflammation markers and immune response in certain conditions. ----- So why doesn't visualization work for Mizner? Who knows. Perhaps he is a neurodivergent outlier that has issues with visualization/imagination. This little understood condition is called aphantasia.

[@wakeupworld220]

One of the most interesting and enjoyable interviews on here. I don't think any of Adams answers were particularly controversial as he said it is all as has been recommended by the great enlightenment teachers for thousands of years, 'don't be weird, and do good to others' seems to sum it all up nicely.

[@tednation]

Great interview! Adam is also not corrupted by western Buddhist left-leaning ideology and the dumbing down of practice.

[@wannabe_buddha3412]

Thank you.

[@doubleBbooks]

Brilliant interview - I know of Adam Mizner because of his Tai-Chi but had never heard him talking about meditation - found the whole thing thought provoking, challenging and inspiring

[@spawn314159]

extremely misinformed with meditation. find a qualified guru for meditation, never sit in pain, listen to the body, find a qualified guru...

[@DrFrankenskippy]

01:06:37 = wow moment for anyone with chronic injuries (such as moi) ... fabbo interview with seeds of wisdom a plenty thx. This reminds me of a great retreat in Bali where we learned to bypass the various 'realms' of psycho-astral attachment and my lesson learned was that transcending pain does not mean turning it into another sensory experience that is more 'favorable' (based on socioPolitical beliefs) such as pain into pleasure (they are both polar pendulum sides to the experience of extreme sensory stimulus) ... rather the ultimate goal is to accept and take full responsibility for life exactly as it is and not buffer/escape the experience. That is the key to the 'here and now' ... so as Adam seems to be suggesting it is not about trying to sit in meditation like someone trying to set the Guinness world record of not moving moreso to ascend in realisation to see that all timeSpace bound bondage is illusory and ultimately projected forth from the formless core self awareness state.

[@selviskk]

Its not often I comment on youtube but I just feel I must confess that while listening to this guy talk about the selflesness of his teacher I felt really embarrased for ever thinking, ah I am a good meditator, I have accomplished things. However it was a graceful sort of embarresment, mixed with love and awe

[@Lieu10antDan]

Fascinating.

[@chase1671]

The perfect mix of 'back to basics' fundamentalism, projection of enlightenment and hinting at magical powers to sell tons of online courses! Kudos to this guy! Truly a well cultivated con.

[@xBTx]

How do you know?

[@AyahuascaMagic]

I learned a lot from this and am amazed at Adams physical discipline. I'm curious about his thoughts on kundalini? I used to think all the energy visualization stuff was nonsense then wham it all became a real and obvious manifestation of Shakti.

[@DiscoverTaiji]

I think Kundalini is serious and a big deal. I also think almost also so called Kundalini awakening are nothing of the sort, just some basic qi movement.

[@AyahuascaMagic]

@@DiscoverTaiji thanks for the asnwer...and yeah .....totally agree. I tend to see energy work as just the building of super highway for divine intelligence,...like kundalini isnt energy, its divinity. I didnt get that before it happened. I played arounf with some of the Mantak Chia techniques of compressing energy into the bone marrow and its very powerful but for me the ignition point was just placing my mind between subject and object of desire. For me that was the trick into perfect concentration, like being suspended between 2 magnets. But hey Im pretty sure I cant topple anyone over by waving my hands around. I waswondering if u had thought if focus on such a physical outcome affects spiritual progress? You dont seem to take the imagination seriously and you justified that really well. but for me it was that the imagination was the operating system of reality. Its the frontier of shakti herself.

[@djdollase]

Thank you for this! As usual, you are an excellent interviewer and draw out your interviewees like no where else. And as a longtime follower of Sifu Adam I heard lots of new things here. Bravo. And your in-depth questions brought out (to me) some issues I’ve started to have with Sifu as of late: a whiff of conservatism regarding certain traditions or life choices (being “deviant”) that can feel lacking a bit of compassion, understanding, or tolerance, not to mention simplistic. And everything has to be hardcore to “work”. It’s a bit like the phrase “if you are a hammer everything looks like a nail”. I wonder what he makes of Ramana Maharshi. Possibly not much as RM didn’t follow what he considers “the right way”, the hard way to enlightenment, whatever that word means. And what does “be normal” mean? It seems like only his version of normal rates. And Sifu is many things (an amazing Taiji master and teacher who’s internal skills are extremely high, for instance) but a Spiritual Master? No. A highly trained seeker from a hardcore tradition definitely. Anyway, thanks again for what you do!

[@adammizner9288]

Ramana sat still so long that bugs started eating his legs

[@Jacob0693]

@@adammizner9288 that was after a spontaneous and seemingly permanent glimpse of Self at 16 years old with zero training of mind or body. I’m curious of your take on self inquiry, thanks for the interview Adam, I appreciate your willingness to go against the grain.

[@DiscoverTaiji]

@@Jacob0693 I think it is a legit method for those willing to delve into it with enough sincerity. No doubt about it.

[@djdollase]

@@adammizner9288 Perhaps but that wasn’t the point of why he sat for so long. It wasn’t a willful quest but an inevitable outcome of a stroke of Grace he received that he had to “process”. And he certainly suffered physically all his life for it. And he certainly “was of service” all his life as well, apparently sleeping on the couch someone gave him in the main hallway of his ashram (also built for him) so that he was woken up at all hours to answer questions from seekers or cook food for his sadhus.

[@PeterKoperdan]

Mizner has his way of interpreting the Path and also Buddhism. He comes across as kind of a fundamentalist. But I want to offer you - the listeners - some food for thought regarding his comments on imagination. He says: [1:20:15] "If you want imaginary results, practice imagination." [1:21:05] "But it also doesn't affect ... the body properly." I won't go into some theoretical doctrinal debunking of his views. Everyone defines everything differently. Scholars can't even agree on the translation of essential Pali or Sanskrit words and new "interpretations" are used as time goes by. Arguments about words with unclear definitions make no sense. Instead I want to point out that even when we disregard personal experiences of people who have had all kinds of success with imagination, *we still have scientific research to prove Mizner wrong.* When you do some search, you will find quite a few scientific studies on the effects of visualization on the body and those effects were found to be significant. *TL;DR:* Basically, thinking/imagining/visualization affects the brain in really meaningful ways. The brain is connected to the rest of the body by neural networks. Therefore, your thoughts can have direct effect on whatever is connected to the brain by neural networks, which is all of your body. In case you believe in the subtle body, then it is also affected by your thoughts via the brain connection (the brain is connected to the subtle body). ----- SCIENCE: Our scientific understanding of the consciousness, brain and biology is extremely limited. However, there is clear evidence that there is connection between the mind (including imagination and thoughts), the brain and the body. One influences the other. Research has shown that when a person engages in visualization or imagination, there is increased activity in several areas of the cortex. For example, when a person imagines performing a specific movement, such as throwing a ball, the same areas of the motor cortex that are activated during actual physical movement are also activated during visualization. In addition, when a person imagines a scene or an object, it activates the regions in the brain responsible for visual processing and spatial navigation. It also activates other regions that process emotions and feelings, this is why visualization and imagination are thought to be effective for reducing anxiety and stress. Furthermore, research has also shown that visualization can affect brain plasticity, which refers to the brain's ability to change and adapt in response to new experiences. Visualization can activate processes that help the brain to reorganize itself in ways that support learning, memory, and other cognitive functions. An finally the well known phenomenon of placebo. Placebo effects can be quite powerful, with some studies showing that placebos can produce similar levels of improvement as active medications for certain conditions. The brain's own pain-relieving mechanisms can be activated by placebo, releasing natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Studies have found increased activity in certain brain regions responsible for pain processing when individuals are given a placebo, which can reduce pain perception. Placebo effects may not be limited to psychological and physiological processes, but can also affect biological processes. Placebo can change inflammation markers and immune response in certain conditions. ----- So why doesn't visualization work for Mizner? Who knows. Perhaps he is a neurodivergent outlier that has issues with visualization/imagination. This little understood condition is called aphantasia.

[@madogblue]

1:59:00. An amazing insight into Taiji

[@paulmitchell5349]

I hadn't realised that Adam had suffered so badly from psychic visions.While meditating the fruit is fresh, when not meditating .....One of Ajahn Chah's students, Tiradhammo is one of my inspirations. He has a great sense of humour. As for sitting in a chair,I know a guy who had worked in a coal mine for 25 years in a space only 2 feet high. He had a very painful back and knees. Maybe Adam would like to replicate that working life before he sits in judgement of others. Judgement of others implies some way for him yet to travel.

[@gabrieljosefmerrun3088]

Many interesting points also very important part about action and how this is related to meditation. In patanjali sutras and also Jiddhu Krishnamurti and others point out that meditation needs a foundation of right action or else it only leads to illusion. Many people in west skip that

[@marcsabin3583]

Thank you very much for the in-depth interview with Adam. It is a treasure. Your questions were excellent and Adam is a fantastic speaker on the subjects of meditation and tai chi. I get much value from Adam’s insights. Thank you both.

[@tiborzkarate1]

Question for Sifu Adam; sitting in seiza or meditation has any physical benefits? I'm thinking like; your heaps, legs, knees, back gets more flexible or it will be always a painful exercise but your mind will tolerated more and more over time?

[@spirialitytalks8324]

I resonate on a serious level with Adams word as have myself had many although properly less sustained experiences similar to the ones expressed in terms of supposed physicality being transmuted or expressed differently in line with transcendence in experience being expressed in the physical through some practice or another or in certain ways and general or specific activities, I suppose dependent on the individuals practices and level of sustained transcendence this is no doubt on route or the same as what in Sanskrit is known as siddhis,!whatcha reckon?

[@mcs351]

Watched your interviews with Bruce Frantzis and Damo Mitchell, would be great if you can interview Nathan Brine too ...

[@davidsaintjohn4248]

Hah! Came here thinking the same

[@mcs351]

@@davidsaintjohn4248 Great minds think alike ... 🤭

[@marcuszerbini5555]

It is clear Adam Mizner has a strict criteria for the definition of meditation. In the interview he states it is about jhana which culminates in the experience of nimitta (seeing an internal light). The approach he is taking leads to such experiences. The question which naturally arises is whether this is the most accurate understanding of meditation.

[@108Circle8]

It is accurate within that ONE particular lineage. Even just within Buddhist meditation, there are many effective methods and approaches. The goal is not to become a great meditator, or to fool others into thinking one is a great meditator or has Siddhis. These are Samsaric actions. Turning the medicine into poison. A prime example of spiritual materialism.

[@marcuszerbini5555]

@@108Circle8 There is a very old meditation joke... "mantras at 10 paces". There are things Adam says with which I agree and other things that I do not. It is clear he is sincere in his practice. I respect that. It is a difficult decision to either offer one's opinions freely or to be polite and remain silent. Sometimes, criticism is well meant but not well received.

[@user-so6yk1kj2b]

liking this

[@FaYT02]

A liitle remark about a few timestamp labels : "luan Por" isn't a name, it means, more or less, "old master". It is, in fact, a honorific title in the thai monastic system. So, the name of Adam Mizner's master is Jamnian, or more ceremoniously Luang por Jamnian (as you could put So-and-so roshi, for an old zen master).

[@FaYT02]

In fact, "luan por" doesn't mean "old master" since "master" is "ajahn", but anyway "luang por" is a honorific title given to every famous old monk in thaï forest tradition and not a name.

[@GuruViking]

Thanks for the correction 🙏🏻

[@FaYT02]

@@GuruViking I understand that it's confusing since Adam Mizner never gives his guru's name but only mentions him by "luang por" in the interview. (What he does not on his website, nevertheless.) Thank a lot for all that you allow us to discover, Steve!

[@gvillerm0x]

I see a lot of negative criticism against Adam Mizner. I respect that because I believe that your are on the same or higher than him. Both spiritually and martially.

[@scottclaremont4164]

It's interesting the staunch older traditions and how they comment on more modern times.. who's to say how something is suppose to look.. I think perhaps a bit of projection

[@HillardEarl]

@Push Hands, a traditional Chinese martial art, shares striking similarities with the game of chess. Both require strategic thinking, adaptability, and constant effort to excel. This essay explores how the art of Push Hands embodies the principles of chess, emphasizing the need for physical and mental strategy, continuous learning, and the pursuit of excellence.

[@Mes94]

Look into honest sharing by gopal or Ehrliches Mitteilen nach Gopal in German. Might be of help to all of you, especially the "super spiritual buddhist" kind of people. I also recommend the NARM book by Lawrence Heller and Aliene Lapiere. Spirituality might also be a flight response for many people I think.

[@deborahdakota7489]

So when Adam moves a person with Qi, it's their nervous system that's moving them, like a huge startle response, not force? (Re: section towards end)

[@AdrenolinFlux]

His comments on visualization reminds me of No Country For Old Men, "If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?"

[@PeterKoperdan]

Mizner has his way of interpreting the Path and also Buddhism. He comes across as kind of a fundamentalist. But I want to offer you - the listeners - some food for thought regarding his comments on imagination. He says: [1:20:15] "If you want imaginary results, practice imagination." [1:21:05] "But it also doesn't affect ... the body properly." I won't go into some theoretical doctrinal debunking of his views. Everyone defines everything differently. Scholars can't even agree on the translation of essential Pali or Sanskrit words and new "interpretations" are used as time goes by. Arguments about words with unclear definitions make no sense. Instead I want to point out that even when we disregard personal experiences of people who have had all kinds of success with imagination, *we still have scientific research to prove Mizner wrong.* When you do some search, you will find quite a few scientific studies on the effects of visualization on the body and those effects were found to be significant. *TL;DR:* Basically, thinking/imagining/visualization affects the brain in really meaningful ways. The brain is connected to the rest of the body by neural networks. Therefore, your thoughts can have direct effect on whatever is connected to the brain by neural networks, which is all of your body. In case you believe in the subtle body, then it is also affected by your thoughts via the brain connection (the brain is connected to the subtle body). ----- SCIENCE: Our scientific understanding of the consciousness, brain and biology is extremely limited. However, there is clear evidence that there is connection between the mind (including imagination and thoughts), the brain and the body. One influences the other. Research has shown that when a person engages in visualization or imagination, there is increased activity in several areas of the cortex. For example, when a person imagines performing a specific movement, such as throwing a ball, the same areas of the motor cortex that are activated during actual physical movement are also activated during visualization. In addition, when a person imagines a scene or an object, it activates the regions in the brain responsible for visual processing and spatial navigation. It also activates other regions that process emotions and feelings, this is why visualization and imagination are thought to be effective for reducing anxiety and stress. Furthermore, research has also shown that visualization can affect brain plasticity, which refers to the brain's ability to change and adapt in response to new experiences. Visualization can activate processes that help the brain to reorganize itself in ways that support learning, memory, and other cognitive functions. An finally the well known phenomenon of placebo. Placebo effects can be quite powerful, with some studies showing that placebos can produce similar levels of improvement as active medications for certain conditions. The brain's own pain-relieving mechanisms can be activated by placebo, releasing natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Studies have found increased activity in certain brain regions responsible for pain processing when individuals are given a placebo, which can reduce pain perception. Placebo effects may not be limited to psychological and physiological processes, but can also affect biological processes. Placebo can change inflammation markers and immune response in certain conditions. ----- So why doesn't visualization work for Mizner? Who knows. Perhaps he is a neurodivergent outlier that has issues with visualization/imagination. This little understood condition is called aphantasia.

[@viperman2454]

Adam is a very skilled Tai Chi man and hard worker. His main Tai Chi teacher was Mark Rasmus who Adam does not like to mention. He lived with Rasmus for I think 2 years. Rasmus is an incredible Tai Chi and Hermetics master. Rasmus is a very loving and giving teacher. Nothing against Adam but it drives me nuts when students don't give credit to their teachers. You have to give credit where credit is due. When you don't give credit to your teachers. No future teacher will ever teach you. Because they think, Why should I teach him when if I do. He will claim he knew it all along. Peace

[@rhendougby6432]

Yeap I mentioned it here as well.

[@xBTx]

@@rhendougby6432 Quality fan fiction 👍

[@40JoCharles]

Two years is nothing in a lifetime of learning and he did say he has experienced lots of teachers. To mention only one might imply that all the skills came from one teacher. Adam is a product of all his experiences, not to be replicated in any other human. 🙏🏼

[@back-seat-driver1355]

@Viper Man, yes, right! Good comment!

[@richarddeerflame]

@@40JoCharles well said and correct, teachers must let go of titles and if a student leaves and does well. Good let go, no student belongs to you. thats Ego wanting control. teach and let go. causing stress by owning is illusion.

[@AD-rz7sg]

I think the ideas about Vajrayana and visualization presented in this interview are misleading or at least misjudged and it would have been nice if they were challanged more by the host. The version of "Buddhism" that Mr.Mizner presents to the audience is basically a Vedanta-styled "neti-neti" approach that undestands liberation as the letting go of everything that is "not-self" in order to grasp at a purified self-existing consciousness - different from body, energies and mind - that you "absorb" into and that you latch onto until "it" all dissolves into nirvana. That is a popular teaching and it defenitely has lots of mertis. But it has nothing do to with the way these things are understood within Mahayana Buddhism, where these views and associated practices are seen as a subtle misconception that are not copletely able to pacifiy suffering. One might also add, that his puritanic treatment of the body could possibly be harmful and appealing for traumatized people who tend to be dissociative in relationship to their bodies and use techniques like he proposes to "spiritualize" their situation. Also there is no need for condescendingly presenting basic ethics as a controversial epiphany. Anyways, my point is that - in the same way you shouldn't judge any tradition without taking a good look at the very core premises that constitute it's practices - you really can't judge Vajrayana without taking into account it's view, which is exemplified on the level of sutra by Nagarjunas Madhyamika. It's nonsensical to talk about isolated practices within Vajrayana - let alone advanced practices like Tummo - without taking these things into account. In the analysis of Madhyamika, things are appearing to have an independent existence but upon investigation they lack any inherent existence whatsoever. Both on the side of the person and the phenomenon. All things lack inherent existence ultimately despite the way they spontaneously appear by themselves in our common shared reality. That analysis of our shared everyday reality has consequences for practice. As Tagbo Dashi Namgyals puts it in his "Moonbeam of Mahamudra": "No matter whether this is based on analytical meditation or resting meditation, it is in any case of great importance to find out the view of emptiness. Any view and meditation that lacks this view cannot cut through the root of cyclic existence. No matter which progressive stages of meditation in the sutras, tantras or pith instructions you look at, at first, when the correct view is searched for, discriminating knowledge is indispensable. And yet having analyzed through discrimination, finally the very process of discrimination itself comes to rest, ushering in nonconceptual wisdom." The understanding of emptiness - both conceptually and in experience - and it's relation to compassion is central for all schools of Vajrayana in Tibet - since it is key for how "liberation" is approached. All practice should be based in a firm and solid understanding of sutra in terms of view and practical ethics. It's only very rare practitioners who have the karmic disposition, that arrive at a direct experience of emptiness directly through the methods of tantra without having been prepared by the study, contemplation and meditiation of the view and the Mahayana conduct. (For people interested in these things but hearing them for the first time: A good starting point is Andy Karrs book "Contemplating Reality " or Tsultrim Gymtso Rinpoche "Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness".) All of that is especially important when it comes to the critique of visualization practices that is offered here. If within Vajrayana, "imagination" would have the meaning that Mr.Mizner attaches to it - and if its practices of "visualization" were based of the notion of "reality", he presents here -, one would have to agree: it is futile and maybe outright stupid to base your practice on such a inconsequential and flawed approach. I could even be harmful. But his ideas about the relation of "reality" and "mental imagination" are utterly nonsensical in the context of Madhyamaka, since all creation and completion stage practices - and the practices , that are leading there - are based in an understanding of emptiness that is quite different from the realist idea of "visualization" that he thinks to identify in these practices. He is describing his own idea of Vajrayana and then critizies something that is simply not there. His statements are not controversial - they are just plain false and misleading. The same pertains to his critique of Tummo and his Imaginations about Dzogchen and Mahamudra. Now there are for sure a lot of people that are practicing in the manner that Mr.Mizner describes. But that would be due to a lack understanding, proper guidance or both. A problem not exclusive to Vajrayana since you will find forms of misguided practice in any major tradition. But it IS a legitimate problem and it is important that it gets addressed and pointed out. Otherwise people might come to same conclusions like they are presented here and think Vajrayana is about autosuggestion or getting lost in private phantasies or "pretending". This would be misleading and potentially harmful. Hence the very common warnings not to engage in "visualization" or energetic work without being grounded in the view and conduct of sutra. Now one might say this is all just empty words and that this is just a sing that there is no real understanding. But an important part of the view as it is understood in Madhyamika is that all minds are basing their perception of reality on some deeply ingrained form of theory - which is in turn based on operations and ascriptions of "existience" and "non-existence". Our minds are always affected by "theory" whether we like it or not. Its one of the main reason of our suffering. Our mind constantly grasps at things as inherently existing. It doesn't matter if the object of our attachment is "worldly" or some "spiritual state". Thats why our training has to include a way to cut through the subtle objectifying of mind and point out its inherent flaws. This is percisely what Nagarjuna is offering in his Mulamadhyamikakarikas. And thats why these teachings are so universally revered in all the tibetan schools. The theory of the Vedantist, Rational Materialist, Buddhist or even Miznerist, might be a bit more pronounced and complex than grannys implicit theories about reality. But all of them base their whole existence on thinking "this is real" - "this is not real". When it is seen in this way, view and practice go hand in hand - you can't really seperate them. Our inneate preconceptions about reality inform our direct experience. When one thinks one is leaving "theory" behind and is just focused on "practice" and "experience" - one might just be solidifying ones own theory of reality over and over again. "Cultivating" and hunting for "experience" or "absorbtion" without having contemplated the instructions for practice that challenge the operations of ones own mind, is bad advise in the context of Vajrayana. And it is certainly not a ground on which one can judge a whole tradition, its practice or practitioners. Then you are just reducing it to your own understanding and try to measure it against that. That might just fuel a subtle sense of superiority, beacause suddenly one has become better than all those misled people of Kali Yuga who just don't get it. Vajrayana is about benefiting sentient beings - not about aggrandizing yourself. Thats the motivation behind practices like tummo. Not some childish idea of "spiritual cultivation". It is perfectly fine if Mr.Mizner doesn't agree with the tradition of Vajrayana. But at least judge it on the basis of its own premises. Don't bring a basketball to a golf course and complain about the holes being too small. To be fair: This is a misunderstanding that goes way beyond Mr.Mizner - his views are just highlighting a general problem. Thats why i would love to see Mr.Mizner discuss his viewpoints on visualization with some of the seasoned practitioners that were guests on this Podcast like Lama Glenn Mullin or Dr. Nida Chenagtsang who both are very skilled in communicating Vajrayana. I think this would be very helpful to a wider audience and could clear up a lot of confusions and misunderstandings that are out there. People should be able to make informed decisions to find a path and teacher that suits them and doesn't harm them and not be fed with opinionated misinformation. So for everyone interested in Vajrayana but feeling discouraged by the things Mr.Mizner is talking about: don't give up too easily. There are so many great teachers and teachings accessible today. If you stay earnest and put your focus on benefiting others and becoming a more loving human being instead of shopping for techniques and "accomplishments" - you are sure to find suitable guidance and support. MOST IMPORTANT: Find a teacher you can trust and follow the suggestions he or she is giving YOU directly. They will know what is helpful for YOU. A sing of a true teacher is her capacity to guide different people according to their temperament. Don't rely on people on the internet - on-screen or in comment sections. In all traditions it is universally agreed on that a sure sing for "attainment" is a mind of love and compassion. Mr.Mizners teacher sounds like a wonderful being and example for that. His devotion to this man, his appeal at lived morality and for the concrete embodiment of love should be applauded. That also points to the heart of Vajrayana.

[@looklikemyles]

Great comment

[@ironrobin]

🙏 🙏 🙏

[@DiscoverTaiji]

actually I am not describing Buddhism, or emptiness or the view in this interview. The questions were mainly on meditation.

[@AD-rz7sg]

​@@DiscoverTaiji Thats why my comment addressed the parts of the interview, where you use your views on meditation to evaluate a tradition and its practice that is utterly dependent on contemplating and meditating on - not just intellectually dabbling with - emptiness, the nature of reality, ehtics etc. Saying that you didn't comment on these traditions in this way comes along as very dishonest and evasive for me. It's a rather cheap cop-out to act as if you commented just on the limited topic of meditation and didn't judge practices based on your assumptions. Your interview has points of merit and you are pointing out a very important misconception of how Vajrayana is often seen, practiced and presented. A misconception that can be potentially harmful - especially for people struggling with being grounded in everyday reality. (But quite frankly one seems to see it more often with people shopping around for "spirituality" then with dedicated practitioners.) Unfortunately you are offering nothing to address these questions. That's why I'd love to see these issues addressed in a manner that is based in the very tradition these practices stem from and suggested that you discuss these ideas in an open forum with one of the earlier guests on this program. And by "tradtion" i don't talk about institutions or dogma - i share your distaste for these things. I am talking about the actual core teachings this path is based on. Because these teachings have all the answers and methods for how to deal with these misconceptions. And there are enough qualified teachers out there that are able to guide people on these things. Unless you talked to all of them and worked a long time to put their advise into practice, a broad public asessment about these issues on your side seems inappropriate. It also clashes heavily with your demand for ethics. In all vehicles of Budddha-Dharma, the Yoga Paths or any other tradition. I've had no contact with TaiChi in my life but judging from what you said in the Interview they seem to have the same approach for bulding a practice: First build a basis. To double down on my adoration for Nagarjuna: "Listening to the Dharma engenders contemplation, and contemplation gives rise to meditation experience - this is the sequence. So if you abandon distraction and continiously apply effort, first the prajna that comes from listening will result in comprehension of the general characteristic of the dharmas of samsara and nirvana. The contemplation will pacify blatant grasping to the reality of illusory appearances, meditation developes the definitive direct experience of mind, and so on. Thus the previous stages act as causes for the arising of the latter. When this is not the case, it is like desiring results without any cause." I think we can both agree on that. Its what the Buddha taught: everything arises based on causes and conditions. Without the right causes and conditions in place nothing of worth will be able to emerge. When talking about Madhyamika I am NOT encouraging fruitless intellectual study for the sake of learning of argument. Madhyamaka is not aimed at adding another theory to your arsenal - it is aimed at directly addressing the theorizing and objectifying tendencies of your mind and challenging them in an existential and experiential way. That is why it is understood as expressing the same View as the Tantras and is deemed an appropriate and helpful way to help studend understand and approach esoteric teachings. It ripens the mind in order to engage with these practices in a proper way. The same holds true for the ethical conduct and meditation training from the sutras. Engagement with sutra - the teachings not the cultural institution surrounding them - should have a direct transformative impact on how you perceive yourself, the world and how you behave - on and off the cushion. Otherwise it's useless. I agree with your emphasis on actual practice, basics and ethics. I have just been taught differently on the role and function of absorbtion and cessation. And I'm against judging any path outside its own principles, goals and methods. Even more in the context of Vajrayana which is not a monolith but most of the time a collection of various paths with shared premises. It's a complex jungle to navigate and crude oversimplication is seldomly helpful in such situation. Don't discourge valid paths just because it's not your path. Peoples temperaments and needs are quite different and not every path is helpful for everyone. Everyone should be able to follow a path the brings him or her happinnes and calm. I sincerely whish this for all of us 🙏

[@SunOfAztec]

@@DiscoverTaiji well, you cannot separate method from the view, meditation is not something independent and existing out of the context.

[@spawn314159]

going without sleep is not a symptom of cultivation. i dont care who says it.. its bunkus.

[@Drstephenstokes]

Adam maybe correct, I am not sure but either way he is not easy and you can be easy and correct that is a true master.

[@arikarma]

🙏

[@Spectre2434]

Dion Fortune addressed the psychic issues

[@nevill81]

What is the name of Adam's main teacher guys?

[@gabsta123]

Is it possible to meet Luang Por Jamnian?

[@rihhard1072]

From what I was able to gather, hes still alive and resides at Wat Khao Lao, not far from Bangkok

[@gabsta123]

@@rihhard1072 thanks :)

[@DiscoverTaiji]

@@rihhard1072 yes that is correct, but he is often in Malaysia

[@onemanlived]

Great interview! You should interview Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson, he is a Daoist Master, Martial Arts Master, doctor of medical qigong, and Vajrayana Master.

[@maduroholdings]

I don't know why after all my decades in the arts I never developed a meditation schedule

[@HillardEarl]

@Apologies for the confusion, this is two individuals engaging in honest decisions? I am just starting to understand what this is.

[@PrinzGreg]

Before giving him credit, better ask yourself why. Because it all sounds too good? And he is so into “no bullshit”? I only see his projections about what enlightenment is and how he thinks things have to be.

[@salimmichel4738]

Adam have ever heard of Sahaja yoga meditation I have thirty years of practicing martial arts and have the same practing Sahaja Yoga meditation

[@5piles]

the lamas who entered thukdam at death practiced legit tummo also a very bad understanding of vajrayana. the tantric deities are emptiness formations that appear out of fullblown vipashyana, it has little to do with visualization.

[@alfi9445]

Great interview - great questions and great answers. One thing what I see really different than Adam Mizner is the topic - imagination. Adam said, imagination produces imaginary results. In my opinion it is not so and it is proven. During healing process, imagination could be really helpful - see placebo effect. I remember an experiment where some people should walk up a big mountain. At some height you get breathing problems when you are not acclimatised. Therefore every person should wear an oxygen mask, but only some had a real one and the other had a fake one. But it made no difference. The people who thought that they would wear a real oxygen mask could walk without problems. The control group which had no masks had problems to breath. Thats the power of believing and imagination. There are many proven experiments where you can really see the power of imagination. The simplest experiment is, imagine biting into a lemmon. You can feel instantly how the body reacts. So I can not understand Adams view about it.

[@adammizner9288]

Yes imagination and visualization can create some mild effects. No doubt about it. But that does not warrant in my opinion making it the base of ones practice.

[@108Circle8]

Yes, he is confused about many of the Buddhist teachings. One day if he ever stops chasing experiences, he might realize that EVERYTHING he thought was reality, is all imagined by the mind. Everything is mind. Reality as we know it is nothing but the mind's imagination based on electrical signals from the five sense gates. It is impossible to see a dog, or a tree. The eyes only know color and shape. The "dog" or the "tree" is entirely a product of the mind's imagination.

[@adammizner9288]

@@108Circle8haha. Ok put your hands through stone.

[@urielpolak9949]

@@108Circle8 sound like a case of builders brick to the head needed😂😂😂😂 boom baby ,imagine that,now how real ?

[@alfi9445]

​@@adammizner9288 Yes, I agree with you. Many visualisation techniques I tried had zero or only mild effects. In yoga, I came across diverse visualisation techniques in which, for example, one tries to create an energy cycle. This never worked for me and I did not find these visualisations helpful. On the other hand I can feel that thoughts, ideas and beliefs do have a big influence on my body. When I have negative thoughts it feels different than when I have positive thoughts. The body chemestry changes. Therefore I could imagine that these thoughts and feelings influence also the chi significantly. But I don't know exactly because I don't have the experience. You have far more experience in that. For me the key that thoughts will have a bigger impact on the body (and perhaps the chi) is that there must be a corresponding feeling.

[@tiborzkarate1]

Are you saying that if meditation doesn't hurt is not a good meditation? You say sit until you pass out, that's can't be a goal for meditation right?

[@adammizner9288]

Not saying that at all

[@richarddeerflame]

he speaks of transformation ..... this is important .... struggle overcomes not lazyness......

[@spawn314159]

thank you so much for exposing this sharleton

[@wiwidity]

I watched Mizner in podcast with Damo-great guys. But someone needs to "defend"/properly introduce techniques of tummo, its purpose and purpose of generation stage yogas in the context of buddhist philosophy/"science" on the revealing the true nature of phenomena for complete and final understandings of minds nature. From what I see Mizner and Damo are critical of something that they are actually part of in their own practice in many ways. But them Not understanding the mechanics/practice of tummo (misinformed?) they criticize it-paradox. Tibetans will not defend the issue, they couldn't care a less, its too much of explaining for something that is so simple (generally speaking). Cheers and thanks for great content

[@novaacuinfo5930]

yeap, saw that. it was my statement on their ignorance on imagination and visualization. they're opinion is misinforming and spreading ignorance on vajrayana.

[@alfi9445]

@@novaacuinfo5930 I agree. This is a point I can not understand too. There are so many examples where you can see that imagination and believing works (see placebo effect). The body can not differ between real and imagination. That is a proven fact. Why do Adam and Damo propagade the opposite?

[@adammizner9288]

@@alfi9445there are endless examples of how imagination and reality are very different. I am sure you can imagine yourself flying.

[@urielpolak9949]

@@alfi9445 “tricking” the body into making it believe it as real is what i did for 20 years. Now i am not claiming any authority nor personal attainment, it had great results for me at the time.Truly was beneficial and ,at the time, stood out as the most intelligent practice around me. I listened to sifu adam explain,as part of training the actual system, its short comings.I have to concur one hundred.This combined with the results he produces in students.So i now think,what is meant ,when he says “internal practice” he means the actual physical work/results.And i now agree that my former practice was not “internal” as he defines it. Again peeping in the door from outside i must agree. Again i do not know. But its important that he says this to define his art as “not this”/imaginations. He is not stopping anyone from doing it. His results are just not in that realm so if anyone likes the results….well accept his take if you want to achieve what he offers. You like what a “visualization “ path brings go visualize it.(sorry that was mean i just cant help myself sometimes acting like a clownboy)

[@novaacuinfo5930]

@@alfi9445 They Maverick level control freaks with a deep discontentedness and a desperate need for attention. Using NLP, and hypnotism on the daily. did you see how entranced Viking Guru got! 5555 snap out of it VG! :)

[@vidya014]

名是道之剑。 魔挡灭魔，妖挡歼妖。

[@ironrobin]

Visualization in creation stage is just putting singled-pointed focus training on buddha form and buddha field. Why look down on that, when it's upaya to train the mind to focus?

[@adammizner9288]

Complex meditation objects don’t lead to absorption. They are a fabrication.

[@ironrobin]

Thanks for your reply. By absorption are you talking about reaching subtle states where you lost feeling of body and all conceptuality? Wether we like it or not we have an imagination of what it's like to be a self with a body. Creation stage lets us use a fully enlightened template and say this is us, everything around is a buddha field. So it's kind of like saying we are already enlightened so in that way it's a resultant vehicle like zen. This is how I understand it. Since all is devoid of inherent existence (emptiness), we are replacing our karmic fabricated selves for enlightened fabricated selves.

[@adammizner9288]

@@ironrobinyep, I know the theory

[@ironrobin]

@adammizner9288 so to use the framework of ground-path-result, you understand the ground, the nature of reality, emptiness; you understand how to traverse the stages of the path, bodhicitta motivation and the two stages of tantra; but you disagree that those stages (which do include visualization) can actualize result

[@adammizner9288]

@@ironrobinI disagree on them being an efficient means

[@davidwearley7843]

I can understand his critique of visualization, but the way he talks about it, I don’t know that he really understands the purpose.

[@adammizner9288]

The critique is not on the philosophical purpose but on the result.

[@5piles]

@@adammizner9288 the results are seen for example in practitioners who enter thukdam at death. what ppl call jhana these dys is not even close to mere shamata. also, tantric deities emerge from fullblown vipashyana realizing real selflessness and especially emptiness, they have little to do with mere visualization

[@davidwearley7843]

@@adammizner9288 sure, but specifically what results are you looking for from visualization? Creation with completion is only that.

[@DiscoverTaiji]

@@davidwearley7843 the questions were about meditation, so the result is about meditation proper. Also I was asked about qi/prana cultivation so also results in that realm.

[@PeterKoperdan]

Mizner has his way of interpreting the Path and also Buddhism. He comes across as kind of a fundamentalist. But I want to offer you - the listeners - some food for thought regarding his comments on imagination. He says: [1:20:15] "If you want imaginary results, practice imagination." [1:21:05] "But it also doesn't affect ... the body properly." I won't go into some theoretical doctrinal debunking of his views. Everyone defines everything differently. Scholars can't even agree on the translation of essential Pali or Sanskrit words and new "interpretations" are used as time goes by. Arguments about words with unclear definitions make no sense. Instead I want to point out that even when we disregard personal experiences of people who have had all kinds of success with imagination, *we still have scientific research to prove Mizner wrong.* When you do some search, you will find quite a few scientific studies on the effects of visualization on the body and those effects were found to be significant. *TL;DR:* Basically, thinking/imagining/visualization affects the brain in really meaningful ways. The brain is connected to the rest of the body by neural networks. Therefore, your thoughts can have direct effect on whatever is connected to the brain by neural networks, which is all of your body. In case you believe in the subtle body, then it is also affected by your thoughts via the brain connection (the brain is connected to the subtle body). ----- SCIENCE: Our scientific understanding of the consciousness, brain and biology is extremely limited. However, there is clear evidence that there is connection between the mind (including imagination and thoughts), the brain and the body. One influences the other. Research has shown that when a person engages in visualization or imagination, there is increased activity in several areas of the cortex. For example, when a person imagines performing a specific movement, such as throwing a ball, the same areas of the motor cortex that are activated during actual physical movement are also activated during visualization. In addition, when a person imagines a scene or an object, it activates the regions in the brain responsible for visual processing and spatial navigation. It also activates other regions that process emotions and feelings, this is why visualization and imagination are thought to be effective for reducing anxiety and stress. Furthermore, research has also shown that visualization can affect brain plasticity, which refers to the brain's ability to change and adapt in response to new experiences. Visualization can activate processes that help the brain to reorganize itself in ways that support learning, memory, and other cognitive functions. An finally the well known phenomenon of placebo. Placebo effects can be quite powerful, with some studies showing that placebos can produce similar levels of improvement as active medications for certain conditions. The brain's own pain-relieving mechanisms can be activated by placebo, releasing natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Studies have found increased activity in certain brain regions responsible for pain processing when individuals are given a placebo, which can reduce pain perception. Placebo effects may not be limited to psychological and physiological processes, but can also affect biological processes. Placebo can change inflammation markers and immune response in certain conditions. ----- So why doesn't visualization work for Mizner? Who knows. Perhaps he is a neurodivergent outlier that has issues with visualization/imagination. This little understood condition is called aphantasia.

[@drolo7]

👍🙏🙏🙏

[@freestylebagua]

100% Agree on 'sexual Daoist practices, @1:48:00

[@loveudon6972]

SOLID !!!👍🤠🇦🇺♥️🙏

[@LaoZi2023]

I love a lot of what Adam says except his love for religions. I don't think religion is the answer of the uncultivated masses (if you believe in gods then you may find solace), it can be an outlet for spiritual search, but it is not necessary, and the people in religions can indeed do great harm. Having an experience does not equate the existence of a God or gods. One simply has had an experience.

[@richarddeerflame]

all humans indeed do great harm. its the person doing it. not their house they live in. be free from judgement.... no experience is necessarily false .... you don't know all things, no one does. be at peace with it.

[@LaoZi2023]

@@richarddeerflame I understand your point. But I disagree fundamentally, this concept we have of religions can be a beautiful thing, as Adam says. But it isn’t always a beautiful thing. To be at peace with it, one needs to be blind of the atrocities that has been committed, yes, by humans; but they were done in the name of religion.

[@richarddeerflame]

@@LaoZi2023 At least I do feel though that one can never generalise. Many things were done by bad people in many names. But us who follow Religion and Believe in a Loving God are saddened when others speak of us in negative light and that's why I often respond to comments that put down religion. But if its a small thing in your mind an opinion that you keep for whatever reason , I can't change that but I do hope the world can see based on all of our actions the good of the actual religion ... There is plenty evidence of it. But people even who follow religion are human and often make mistakes wether bad or small ones. But it was never the religions fault meaning... never what the scripture taught nor what the leader long since passed away wanted ... people who did wrong under the name were in fact not following their named religion. That's what. I want people to always remember... its never the teachings or the leaders fault.. And that is the real religion... People are always at fault. Id love to see people not point at amazing teachings and amazing Religious leaders who started the religion .... But respect those and just point at the people who lost their paths in it and dirtied others views... if that all makes sense.

[@LaoZi2023]

@@richarddeerflame , I do not argue your points. The founders of religions, mostly anyway, wanted good for all of humanity. That’s not the religion that’s the man or woman who founded the religion. Whatever Epiphany they may have had, only supports the Goodwill of the person.

[@richarddeerflame]

@@LaoZi2023 Im glad to hear you agree with that very much so. That's a good view.

[@TheWizard10008]

Steve-note to you at bottom. Great interview, however the guy is a little bit of a paradox. He’s very knowledgeable, but sounds so irritated by the “nonesense” of traditional practice and tropes…he seems so over it all. His energy says volumes about the paradox of knowledge vs attainment. A lot of frustrated energy, anger, pain. He seems to be his own worst enemy. He still doesn’t seem to understand or hasn’t been able to retain the experiential wisdom of emptiness, nonduality etc. Suffers from a crippling number of lenses. And at the same time, he possesses some great insight. I think he would gain much from Dr. Angelo DiLullo. IMHO. * He would really benefit from an introduction if he hasn’t heard of him. Maybe you can facilitate or even just mention.

[@HolyChaoMu]

I think he's just telling it how it is, and people get triggered. I have met him and he's incredibly kind, and skilled beyond measure.

[@TheWizard10008]

@@HolyChaoMu oh I’m sure he is. But I couldn’t help but notice his discomfort, the agitation of his body movements, changes of vocal tone, the outward expression of his frustration. He seems to have very narrow ideas of how enlightenment SHOULD be achieved. Something that will happen in the future and isn’t available now. His opinions about normal seem to illustrate a general lack of tolerance. Still believes deeply in his own agency, etc. Trying so hard is the only way, and yet his insight feels lacking. My friend, there is so much available right now and the only thing that needs to be done is notice and discern. A lot happens in the process in the down time as well. There is unfolding, downloading, dissolving taking place all the time….and all without agency.

[@HolyChaoMu]

@@TheWizard10008 what do you feel lacking about his insight? Is enlightenment available now? Can you choose to achieve it right now?

[@TheWizard10008]

@@HolyChaoMu check out Dr.Angelo Dilullo’s channel “simply always awake”. Also, their is an excellent video on Guru viking with him as a guest. But this is one that spoke to me. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaLMdKxvj8SCjqM

[@TheWizard10008]

@@HolyChaoMu here’s another one who turns the ideas about how one should achieve Enlightenment upside down. Frank Yang is a proponent of do nothing meditation. But there’s more to him than that. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHOudqGkh7mYick

[@chruszczow]

Lol i watched some of his videos, and yes, no surprise, classic "bulshido" master xD Higly recomend to watch some of his "skills".

[@richarddeerflame]

another person talking without going to experience ........

[@nitai154]

I’d love to see how Mizner does against someone like Jiang Yu Shan

[@richarddeerflame]

no need for fighting. its for the wild animals. push hands in peace is better. less Ego attached.