Ep188: Esoteric Taoism - Bruce Frantzis 2

[@PeterDanz]

i have met Bruce about 27 years ago, and i still like remembering those talks while joining him on meals. I have learned so much for my life at that time, and i can recall alot just watching these vids, and listening to his voice. Thx for this one. And i love the people i met at that time...

[@freestylebagua]

Very informative but not nearly as entertaining as Bruce's first interview which was simply incredible. I'm grateful for both!

[@ArrowRootSolutions]

Just stop thinking so much and listen to Bruce without any bias towards his energy. Love all.

[@drumla9007]

I met Bruce in Warsaw right after his stay in Cracow and his work he mentiones at 1:26:00. Boy, he was so wasted ...

[@6Persona6Ignotus6]

wasted like.... under the influence if so from what? alcohol or drugs or..?

[@tjilatjila1]

Wasted from the work he has done in Auschwitz near Krakow with all the souls lost there in the concentration camp during ii WW

[@teeew-fp2ty]

@@tjilatjila1 Because "wasted" really is such a fitting word for that...

[@MonacoBlast66]

Guru Viking-You're great at this!

[@GuruViking]

Thank you Anthony! 🙏🏻

[@scholarwarriorhealer]

I love the Andrew dice clay of Daoism/spirituality/martial arts. He always keeps it real. I hope to meet him one day before he or I goes on the great journey.

[@scholarwarriorhealer]

Also bought and been reading his DaoDeJing translation and so far one of the best and most comprehensive translations that are far exceeding any other. I highly recommend for those that are serious about Daoism/sprituality/internal alchemy etc.

[@carlifvarsson5644]

Thank you GuruV and Bruce for another amazing conversation! Delightful works there really!

[@noahkaufman2013]

Thanks for the great interviews with Frantzis

[@xvrlskrcll6485]

@GuruViking : In the first episode Mr. Frantzis repeatedly mentioned his use of LSD and Cannabis. It would have been interesting if you have asked him about his drug use related to his martial arts learning: When did he use them: before, during or only after training? When did he stop using them, if at all? Was the drug use helpful for the martial arts, or the opposite? What is his opinion on them now?

[@al1665]

He's written that the Water Meditation he does is more powerful than any drug he's tried. I don't know what that means exactly, but that's his quote.

[@scottschafer4251]

Love the show Steve, you do a great job! Is there anyway you can turn up the audio in the future? Sometimes the sound is a little quiet.

[@robwhittall]

Yeah, I'm listening to it on my old Samsung 6 and volume is on maximum, and it dips a little on occasion.

[@health2625]

Great interview, really was perspective changing for me, I can't wait for 3rd interview with Bruce Frantzis. I can't believe there are a lot negative comments about him :))) I think people can't grasp the concept of Left Hand Path, and imagine a Left Hand Path approach to Enlightenment. it is so sad that people judge so fast, whether it be positive or negative. You're doing great @GuruViking thanks a lot man

[@thoughtform21]

One of the things that leaves dialogue between Buddhists, Daoists, and the Westerners that they converse with so confused is the question of Self, and I think part of the problem that arises is from the Daoist and Buddhist end. There is a consistent confusion in Eastern thought between the SENSE of self, which we could label ego, and the self itself, which from a western standpoint could be called soul. That the ego-sense isn't the self but how the self relates to itself and its environment, however near or distant that environment is considered to extend either isn't accurately understood or isn't effectively communicated by these Eastern systems. This confusion is like if I said my sense of touch IS my skin. It's completely crude and mistaken.

[@benjaminmiller3075]

Been doing practice through energy arts and Bruce Francis for 5 years. Receiving this tradition has been a tremendous gift in my life. The look on his face when he talks about his teacher naming him and giving him meditation as a means was poignant.

[@m0rgentraum]

He seems devious to me.

[@MonacoBlast66]

Daoist sexual practices are said to be the lowest form of cultivation.

[@MellowJFan]

@@MonacoBlast66 haha

[@mcs351]

He is not devious but has a big ego - prob the reason why Liu didn't teach him meditation but wanted him to do so.

[@health2625]

@@MonacoBlast66 who said that?! it is one that harder modes of practice in daoism ps. he is more left hand path practitioner than right hand path meaning unlike his master liu hung chieh, he's nature embraces very opposite way of Daoism instead of isolation and not having sex and delicious food and etc.

[@health2625]

@@mcs351 :| he did actually :|

[@silverterry75]

Having read and observed Bruce over the past 20 years and known some students of his, I can say he is a great source of Taoist knowledge and practice and has a lot of personal power. Unfortunately, at 73, he seems so far from enlightenment due to his massive ego. He just cannot seem to get over himself. Even one of his main students said to me 'Bruce loves himself'. I see no humility in him, and very little real compassion. Thinly concealed beneath his every statement in this interview (if you could call it that-more like a monologue), is 'hey look how GREAT I am! I've been here and there, studied with this Master and so and so, and learned all the secret doctrines and techniques including.....wait for it.....HAD SEX WITH 1000 women, hello? First of all, considering the sex part I don't believe a word of it. In my vision, he is making a lot of this stuff up to boast and gain attention and energy, which is a shame since he is obviously intelligent, and a serious practitioner. But the question remains - WHY? Has this great individual not got past his ego, and WHY do you GURU VIKING and the rest not challenge him on it? Best Wishes

[@health2625]

you can't believe someone have sex 1000 woman but you can believe someone can meditate in the mountains for 60+years for enlightenment ? :)

[@silverterry75]

@@health2625 I believe there are rare individuals who could do the latter, though personally I think that would be a waste of one's life since there are faster ways one can do that while living in the world, and why shun worldly experience? A man might have sex with 1000 women and good luck to him. I just don't believe Bruce that there is an esoteric sect in Taoism that has this goal - that's absurd. I will however, go check it out with a student of his I know well. Bruce is a bragger. Look, in this entire 5 hour interview he mostly talked about his favourite subject-himself. What 73 year old Taoist master does that-he has an ego the size of a planet-that's not mastery. He should have gotten past this around the age of 50-something's not working here. Here's the thing. We have an individual in Guru Viking who is quiet, humble and centred, and who appears to be, in some ways, more spiritually advanced than Bruce, at least in terms of 'growing up', if not 'waking up'. So why does this man not challenge his subject? What kind of warrior (viking) is that? What kind of interview allows a man to talk for 5 hours on himself with barely a question to interject the monologue or challenge the guy? And this is precisely the problem. Bruce's students and interviewers are afraid of him, and Bruce knows that, and that's how he keeps his power and his ego. Is this helping Bruce? No it hurts him, because as long as he holds on to this grandiose idea of himself, he is as far from enlightenment as a Penguin is from the Sahara. No one challenges him. Why? But I am not afraid to confront anyone on what they need to work on, and if someone points it out to me, I will thank them. Bruce has surrounded himself with yes men and women for all his career. This must change!

[@TapanilaMosabacka3D]

You take the rough with the smooth. Nobody is perfect. The health benefit from his courses far outweighs any of his personal shortcomings in my view. For myself, if there is one single practice he has introduced that provides real healing power beyond any other techniques from other disciplines that I have encountered, it has to be dissolving (internal and external). Closely followed by Taoist breathing and standing Chi Kung (for example I Chuan). *Edit: * as an attendee of courses only, my experience might have been different from those who entered into the teaching hierarchy around Bruce, where instructor trainings are held that can be quite arduous. From these arise normal instructors, senior instructors and very senior instructors, and within each rank there are people with a smaller or larger number of technique certifications, and differing grades within each technique. While the creation of a hierarchy may not be intended, it certainly can look that way from the point of view of all these levels.

[@UrbanBodhi]

You still believe in an ego huh? The actual ego is personhood even beyond the relative mind. What ego points to is not our psychological understanding or experience of it... Its something deeper about what you believe reality and you actually are. What they don't often tell ya is that you don't lose your ego/character/persona... You simply see through it and that alone is what frees the spirit from bondage. You still get to play the character but now you understand that you're so much more than just that and it ceases to be the center or defining factor of your life. So long as one appears to exist there is ego. Frankly consider the assumptions and ideas through which you JUDGE another aspect of creation. Its rooted in your relative value systems sourced from your background and culture. It's quite biased and doesn't allow you to fully appreciate the splendid expression of the natural greatness of being a human. We can mention how we've experienced amazing meditations and spiritual experiences but mention sex or martial arts prowess in a similar light and suddenly there's a problem? The selective outrage is telling. If you listen closely he genuinely cares not what others believe or don't. He's not trying to prove anything or make money. He could charge a lot more and engage in way more fucked up tactics if that was his true motivation. Reality is far stranger than fiction and what he mentions is actually quite easy and more common to achieve than you'd consider. You're simply blessed....or cursed... (depending on how you look at it) to have come up in a more puritanical culture who's beliefs about sex effectively limited just how potent the procreative instinct actually is and how different cultures that didn't restrain it in such a way may have dealt with it. While I agree he's not totally enlightened (and he's humble enough to be able to acknowledge that) he is actually totally awake and more enlightened than the vast majority of people. You have to listen past the language and appearance through to the essence to perceive that but our own judgments can easily dismiss it because it doesn't correspond to how we believe an awakened person should look or sound.... That is actually spiritual ego based on stereotypes and supported by the lack of acceptance of just how vast, varied and naturally beautiful all the various expressions of humanity actually are. It cherry-picks from the mythologized versions of our esoteric heroes and sets a standard which any other kind of expression we deem as beneath. Part of the spiritual path is loving yourself because you are equally an aspect of the divine and a full fledged expression of it with warts and all. The fact that it would be so taboo to simply be able to express what your strengths and abilities are is so distorted because we're so much more accepting when people disparage themselves or express their limitations. He does both fairly equal in my opinion. Either way, whether we agree or not on these points.... Perhaps reflect on how strongly you feel about this? Take your reaction as a mirror because ultimately our own judgments are extensions of our holdings and lack of acceptance about ourselves and the world. These are manifestations of the very ignorance that keep us from fully realizing our own true nature. Take the value that is there and discard what doesn't resonate with you. You don't have to take his personality as a model. I don't believe that its his purpose or intention to appear as some guru or saint. He's just a guy like any of us that looked deeply within, tuned into the universal and expresses and shares very important aspects of it. Personally I believe it s important to have spiritual examples like him that reveal that this stuff is just as accessible to personality types that we would consider incompatible or unsavory. Awakening doesn't judge or give a damn the path that you took to get there.... It's only people and their biases that do. Ironically he's done far more good than most beings that appear more saint or guru-like and that there is some food for thought...

[@back-seat-driver1355]

partly enlightened is like partly pregnant...

[@kenclose8261]

Definitely looking forward to to this interview

[@levprotter1231]

Looking forward to another fantastic interview!

[@GuruViking]

Thanks Lev! 🙏🏻

[@3within1]

Keep up the good work!

[@azlaroc12]

This is simply excellent. Thank you.

[@davisale1957]

He was a dzogchen master in the 70s? Really? Who was his authorizing teacher?

[@neurohydraulics8713]

Wangdor Rinpoche

[@TapanilaMosabacka3D]

So with reference to Bruce's assessment scale for his Energy Arts instructor trainings, did he himself get "level 1, 2 or 3 certification", "physical movements only" or a "certificate of attendance only" for the Taoist sex initiation?

[@stillnessinmovement]

I think he got a cert of attendance for 1000 training fucks. and he's still at it. 🙂 plus a lot of that was honestly learning not just fucking. ive only done one sex training with him but also other stuff, he is clearly teaching a larger and coherent learning progression. I think he made vow of secrecy to not disclose details of his fire training. I don't know if anyone got cert for sex work but for sure I and others have benefitted enourmously from it. my wife...:-) have you worked through the material in his book? it's worth it...

[@jennifercaroff9542]

So many of his expressions and ways of communicating remind me of the men in my family -also New York Jews…

[@frankratkowski2939]

He's not Jewish. He's Greek orthodox

[@jennifercaroff9542]

Thanks.

[@nelsonw8848]

What's up Bruce!!! Hope you're doing well

[@salvijus9]

I like this one already

[@GuruViking]

Thank you! 🙏🏻

[@mispanludensprinck5652]

Am I right in saying that the gentleman may be telling the truth, but I have the right to doubt him until he presents strong evidence for his claims?

[@jasejefferies7622]

You have the right to doubt. It may be reasonable for you to doubt. However, There are certain things that cannot be made evident with material proof. Some things become evident as we engage with them ourselves.

[@arnibah]

Have you ever read the Auto Biography Of A Yogi?

[@back-seat-driver1355]

Yogananda once visited Ramana Maharshi - just watch the video! Now, and.......?

[@mispanludensprinck5652]

@@arnibah Today you can write and publish a book about aliens communicating with you through a toilet pipe. Or do an interview about it.

[@arnibah]

@@mispanludensprinck5652 What does that have to do with the subject?

[@bzzt88]

“The reality of a thing is not one thing”

[@wiwidity]

great!

[@nezumifluff]

I seriously just started bawling like a baby @1:03:15 Ps. Steve, you are a master.

[@michaelj.4187]

sending love and peace to everyone...

[@marilynmoyer6388]

Thank you for sharing

[@Spectre2434]

Very Wonderful!

[@benjamintingkahhin1363]

1:31:00 The master was transferring his internal powers that had been accumulated all his biological life with a human physical body to the speaker one day before his master's life ended naturally and peacefully. This is so vividly described here! 💖

[@nicolekollman]

Bruce doesn't pull any punches that's why I like him---truly authentic New Yorker...i find him so funny....and REALISTIC about spirituality....I like him sharing his experiences....he is not a hypocrite...if he slept with 1000 who cares the gurus in INDIA....the fake ones...a lot more.....

[@neurohydraulics8713]

It's a genuine tragedy that Bruce Frantzis is not a household name.

[@Spectre2434]

The lying down meditation ❤

[@cunskiful]

Maximum respect. True master, great interview. Thank you

[@nitai154]

There are only 2 Masters that teaches Water Path … that I’m aware of 1- Bruce K. Frantzis and Maximillian Christensen. I’m sure they produced many outstanding teachers. I can guarantee you, Frantzis is keeping even more stories AND SKILLS HIDDEN

[@108Circle8]

Once again saddened to see "Guru" viking giving a stage to another dishonest ego maniac. How is it that anyone cannot see and feel what these kinds of "teachers" are all about? None of Kumar's claims have ever been proven. He clearly made a lot of it up. If one feels the need to cater to these kinds of people, at least expose them to the light of critical questions and logic. Just because an ego maniac says something, doesn't make it true.

[@UrbanBodhi]

Trust the results of his students, as well as the overlap between what he shares and expresses and what other teachers that appear more preferable to you do... That he's packaged in a personality that's unsavory to you is its own dilemma. He need not be a model for personality but that doesn't suggest we should throw out the baby with the bath water. After all he's never claimed to be a guru or totally enlightened. Personally, I am inclined to acknowledge that his essence is indeed quite awake and more enlightened than most. That's just what I get from much personal study, practice and observing many different beings on this spectrum. Awakening doesn't look how you would think or expect in all people and usually, the most popular teachers also happen to have quite charismatic or culturally attractive characteristics. If you need proof beyond the fruits of what he shares that's fine. I do believe there are different ways of assessing the genuine value someone has to offer beyond judging the surface expressions and the aspects of their story that are so different than what we're used to that we'd be quick to dismiss it. Ego-maniac is a bit of a stretch cause if you really tune in past the superficial judgements of your mind its quite obvious he cares not for a particular image or attention, he's just unapologetically who he is. Assuming he;s being dishonest or made most of this up without your own evidence is its own kind of distortion. Upon what basis beyond assumption do you make these claims? I think a lot of people throughout the years have judged and questioned him because of the unconventional way he expresses himself compared to most 'spiritual' beings we're familiar with. Due to the nature of life and the fact that most of us don't keep receipts or records there's not much evidence you can keep to corroborate everything and most of us take a leap of faith once we've been signaled enough things that meet our personal standards of honesty or authenticity. That's never been the same as actual proof for either direction though and we should be conscious of these fallacies. Believe or disbelieve. It matters not. Is there any truth or value here that can be taken? The vast majority of what he expresses beyond his personal story is quite wise and very true to the human experience. It saddens me that your comment overlooks just how much beauty and value there was in this conversation even if I can acknowledge and relate to some of the sentiments that you nan express. Why not take the person in as a whole rather than reduce them down to what doesn't sit right with us?

[@tao-of-wellbeing]

What is his point around 25 mins in with human experimentation violating "the God code?" I don't think he means it but he comes across as suggesting such taboos are petty or something??

[@andrewdavis5830]

Yes that was such a callous statement for Bruce to make! He is clearly ok with torture and non-disclosed, forced poisoning and harmful drug testing. And all in the name of being scientific! What a classy guy 🤦‍♂️

[@vvvvaaaacccc]

I rewound to that point as well, as I also felt that it was callous and strange, and so I wanted to see if I'd missed, misheard or misinterpreted something. listening to it again, I heard greater emphasis on humans as a species, which lead me to think of human experimentation versus animal experimentation. many of us take for granted that it's okay to experiment on animals, or to otherwise non-consensually manipulate their lives (kill, eat, enslave, deprive of freedom, vivisect) in ways which we are generally horrified to see done to humans. so, my generous intepretation is that Bruce's words might refer to humans' tendency to elevate human life while denying the value of non-human life.

[@ccl1195]

I did not like the vibe of this interviewee at all. The sudden comments about really unpleasant sexual things are a big red flag to me. Very inappropriate in context, and not normal. If you've been in spiritual circles for a long time you notice stuff like this. I think when we're in these circles for a long time, we forget what normal looks like. I didn't like this at all.

[@health2625]

maybe you should read some stuff about left hand path :) that may open you up to many concepts ;)

[@UrbanBodhi]

Hmmm. Are these things absolutely unpleasant for all? Or do they simply not sit right with your predispositions? Assumptions about appropriateness and normalcy are culture-dependent and rooted in bias. Why is it so taboo to speak as freely and openly about sex as any other topic? That sentiment is more common in puritanical cultures. The same reason porn in japan is censored even though its just the human body... Our definition of 'normal' is not equivalent to healthy. We often forget that everything is an expression of spirit and as such a connection to something greater can equally be found in the conventionally holy as that which seems unholy based on our personal opinions. Yeah. There are people that just use spirituality as a way to justify their unhealthy strangeness. I'm not sure that's what's happening here.... Either way. We should be aware enough to take our emotional reactions and mental judgments of 'others' as mirrors reflecting our own holdings to further our own spiritual development. There's no need to be around or listen to people you don't necessarily agree with or find savory. That doesn't mean you have to impose your judgment on them either. I truly don't mind the criticisms people have to offer as no one is beyond critique. What disappoints me is how dualistic and biased our judgments about people can be. We hyperfocus on what triggers us and don't take the person as a whole and what they have to offer as well as what turns us off.

[@back-seat-driver1355]

hi Rojas thanks for your detailed concepts, but do not judge others yourself!

[@gabize]

13:30 psicologia

[@TheObe1977]

Every single time.......hand rubbing intensifies

[@jamesm5192]

"It's a god damned hand rubbing cultivation practithe you goy. You'd be lucky to rethieve my holy communion with all the women that need healing... Ohhhh Jeeethuth"

[@danielthechampionoftheworl8490]

"sex... uh.... text" LOL.

[@zelareka]

can bruce faqi ?

[@frankoliver2626]

Of course,If you mean the fajing technic.

[@m0rgentraum]

Not impressed so far. Lots of words without substance.

[@szymborska]

He has written dozens of books with nearly all 5 star ratings, which isn't easy for a westerner writing about Daoist practices

[@laoyaotzu]

😂 😂 ignorance is halarious

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

What does that mean? Give me some examples. I enjoyed the interview.

[@viperman2454]

Not everyone is meant to train under a master. Many students need a basic level instructor to teach them and talk to them on a simple level because that is what they can understand. Their minds are not unable to understand higher level teacher because it is like doing higher level mathematics . Not an insult by the way. Just a fact.

[@Garifuna_Retreat]

Haven't watched it yet, but after only spending a single weekend training with B.K, I found him to be one of the most cult-like martial arts guys I've come across...and I've been training various traditional martial arts for 30+ years

[@henry6451]

Sound cultish to me.

[@noself7889]

Not really digging on this.

[@freidrichnietzsche7851]

i dont like this guy

[@frankratkowski2939]

You are amongst many. If you can get past his egocentric personality, his books have valuable transmissions. What he teaches in his books is genuine. On the internal arts I would recommend his books above all others.

[@Seaileanu]

"Knowledge is transferred through the butt hole" ~ Bruce Frantzis

[@xvrlskrcll6485]

@Seaileanu from where is this quote?