Ep198: Do Mormons Worship the Prophet?

On this episode of Mormonish Podcast, Landon and Rebecca are joined by the wonderful Cultural Hall to explore the question, "do Mormons actually worship the prophet?" The question was posed on faithful social media recently after the 100th birthday celebration and we are on a quest to find the answer!
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[@rhyde0731]

I just had a conversation with a close family member about the church’s finances and they perceived me being critical of the “brethren” and they instantly jumped on that and practically shouted to me that they were told in their patriarchal blessing (this person is in their late 60’s) to always defend the brethren and so they were going to do that no matter what! It explained so much once I knew that was in their blessing. Wow.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

No cult control there!

[@jamestrek2570]

@@mormonishpodcast1036 I just came here to say the same thing….. . Some Fkin cult azz sh!t right there. Holy cow 🐄

[@jamestrek2570]

That is what’s soooo sad abt members is they will always choose the church over family no matter what. It’s literally one of the saddest things ever. The church has done a phenomenal job at making members believe that the church is God. The Church is their treasure and “their treasure is their God” 2 Ne 9:30

[@sheliabryant3997]

@jamestrek. Perfectly stated. Thank you for STATING IT OUTRIGHT.

[@DancingQueenie]

And they choose the church (and “brethren”) over COMMON SENSE. Sounds like they wouldn’t even listen to the facts. Lalalala I can’t hear you.

[@rachelhansen2417]

My mom was at that BYU devotional with the bomb threat. She told me something along the lines that she was willing to die because she couldn’t be in a better place. Now, that’s horrifying.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

Couldn’t be in a better place..like volunteering in a children’s hospital, with her grandchildren at a soccer game, in the mountains camping? Thanks for the comment!

[@DancingQueenie]

My byu roommate had just gotten her mission call and died in a car accident a few days later. You wouldn’t believe the comments- even from her parents - about what a perfect time for her to go to her mission on the other side. Maybe you would believe it. I have one more. A neighbor’s 12 year old son was dx with a massive brain tumor. His mother told me he was “obviously gay” so this is the lords way of taking him before he could sin. 😢 Mormons.

[@rachelhansen2417]

@@DancingQueenie you have got to be kidding me. That statement is one thing when said about oneself, but entirely another when said about your own child! The one about the poor 12 year old is especially egregious!

[@whitesalamander]

Excellent content and context so thanks for the hours involved behind the scenes to bring this quality.👏

[@Caveman57]

Children are taught from a young age to "Follow the Prophet". "When the prophet speaks, the debate is over." It may not be publicly defined as worship. But I'm practice? Yes. It's definitely moved into worship. His words are regarded as the very words of Christ. Yes. The LDS prophet is, in practice, worshipped.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@Caveman57. This may be rmn's most open blasphemy. NOWHERE in Holy Scripture is this claim made or propounded OR IMPLIED. It is flatly obscene.

[@user-mn447]

My husband’s grandmother, born and raised in Germany during WWII, she came over to the US with her husband and 4 kids- and she remembered the Hitler song until the day she died at 96.

[@schrecksekunde2118]

yeah people here have a strong memory when it comes to unjustified hero worship. still they're what comes closest to mormons imho. people who are convinced of their mistreatment and of their mission so cherish her if you can ;)

[@DancingQueenie]

@@user-mn447 There’s something about songs! They stick in our brains for a lifetime whether we like them or not. Even propaganda.

[@Geoplanetjane]

Omg, being an adult convert, I had no idea just how strongly our little children were brainwashed to worship prophets and temples and missions among other things. I do not remember whether or not such songs were sung in Nursery or not, but I served there for less than one year and was asked by the bishopric to kindly leave that calling because I had stopped the misbehaving young 3 year old bullying son of one of the other nursery caretakers who was hitting another child and said child’s mother was doing nothing to stop his behavior. Omg, how cruel and apostate the other two women must have regarded me.

[@carolyearsley]

I was also an adult convert, and had no idea of the brain washing, either. During a weekday meeting, while I was doing a church job in another area of the building, an older child in the nursery beat up my child, who was much younger. Not any attempt at an apology from the mother.

[@elliek5350]

This is such a great episode to help see how messed up the corporation is.

[@Moksha-Raver]

Nurseries should add the line about "Prophet Sharks" to the song "Baby Sharks".

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Like prophet sharks😂😂😂thanx😂😂😂😂

[@kittiemarie1235]

That song is already horrific. Now it’s a singing nightmare. 💀

[@missionledcontent]

Oh so happy to see cultural hall here. I love his content. So clever.

[@Rckcasa4118]

I proudly wear my Think Telestial shirt! 😊

[@jacobmcneal3011]

I need one!!!

[@LoveMeSomeTrueCrime]

Very interesting about Nelson referencing himself many times and only five past prophets in the last five years! And old prophets at that. Wow!

[@wrawrer]

Nelson did the groundbreaking in Heber before it was even approved. Edit: the groundbreaking that literally had a member of the county council with a shovel to help. Heres to hoping the Fairview fight helps the lawsuit against Wasatch County.

[@China-Clay]

That could be seen as incompetent on the government leaders themselves

[@wrawrer]

@@China-Clay it is blatant bias, and partly if not primarily why the lawsuit against the county should be successful. The entire county council (IIRC all practicing LDS) rubber stamped not only the code breaking height, but perhaps more damning, allowed the LDS church to literally write the new lighting code to align with what they wanted for the temple. Each and every sitting county council member should have been recalled. But sadly there are far too many residents of the county who are not paying attention, and the church had far too many members trained and orchestrated as useful puppets who mobbed the meetings, framing those with concerns about the code breaking antics as bigots, and played the persecution (and the gonna-sue-you) card right out of the gate. Cody had a sad result, but at least they attempted to stand up to the church. On a related note, Wasatch county now has developers approaching them wanting code breaking heights on their projects, as the county set the horrendous precedent.

[@China-Clay]

@@wrawrer keep speaking up, the watchdog that is happening now, IS making a difference

[@DamonSmith-x8d]

A song that came to my mind long before I lost faith in the church was: Bunko Mormon stories that my teacher tells to me... lol my subconscious was trying to tell me something.

[@DanielFreed-f2b]

You guys are so AWESOME!!!

[@DamonSmith-x8d]

The church leaders can't both claim to speak for god and also admit they were wrong about something members point out. It is a position that renders them completely inflexible.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@DamonSmith-x8d. Perilously close to perfect logic. 🌺

[@elliek5350]

One of the local leaders once mentioned that "the brethren" prefer being addressed as brothers. That perfectly aligned with my understanding of our spiritual brotherhood, and I kept referring to them as brother so and so ever since - much better than elder or president.

[@carolyearsley]

That's what the Masons call each other.

[@ExmoRaymo]

30 years ago it took an apostle to preside at a groundbreaking.

[@ksparks689]

It occurred to me at a reenactment event that Praise To the Man was almost to the tune of Scotland the Brave.

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Was also tune in old commercial for Old Spice.

[@Slammu640]

When RMN became prophet, TBM me was really uncomfortable with everyone worshiping him, and his ego was off-putting. Also, how come we don't celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday every year?

[@williamwallaceg2627]

Had it not been for RMN, I might still be in.

[@elliek5350]

Landon's comments about infallibility is spot on 27:23

[@carolyearsley]

Landon is keenly perceptive. It would be great for him to be the lead speaker on some of these podcasts.

[@nicholasanderson2085]

I also don’t remember Jesus ever referring to himself as president Jesus

[@DanielFreed-f2b]

Excellent presentation!

[@elliek5350]

I am trying to find the whole interview where Oaks said criticism of the leaders is not accepted. I've seen that very short snippet where he says that, but I haven't seen the whole conversation. Can anyone share a link to it?

[@willowtree4]

Great episode. You all gave me new perspectives on things I wouldn’t have thought about. Can’t believe so many people have fallen for this religion. Blows my mind.

[@Geoplanetjane]

How about that famous and beloved Mormon hymn, “We thank thee O God for a prophet…” ( please excuse, if I don’t have the words exactly correct, but I believe that everyone here will understand the exact hymn I am referring to. Regarding the Catholic Church and their possibly celebrating the Pope’s latest birthday, I can tell you for sure that that just won’t happen. No chance whatsoever. Nor is there anyone ever in the history of Catholicism or the holy catholic church (referring to apostolic Christianity as a whole) there is not, nor will there ever be a hymn extolling, “We thank the oh God for a Pope.” Never, no way, now how. Some Popes who have died are in fact being named and venerated as Saints. In Catholicism, Saints are not worshiped. Only the triune Godhead is worshiped. Saints are venerated and are in fact prayed to, not because they are worshiped, but because Catholics and certain other Apostolic Christians be lieve that all saints are in fact alive and are living in holy communion with God the Father and Jesus the Son. They are prayed to for intervention on behalf of the prayerful person’s entreaties, especially for healings and other specific miracles.

[@Cel_566]

Rebecca this was exactly my experience too. So many many years in Primary music. I participated in So much beautiful culty stuff. This is a feminine perspective that others haven’t covered. And was ultimately really unsafe for my LGBT kiddo

[@carolineraines6465]

I guess my sons will never be prophets since none of them have middle names 😂

[@kerryholyoak5720]

If RMN is the only speaker at conference for each session, that would really cut down the time to less than 2 hours total !

[@Geoplanetjane]

Sorry I missed y’all . On replay here. As for Cultch’s name here, please tell him that I of all people fully believe his name should stay exactly as it is. Cultural Hall is a great name for someone who is such a personage in this Mormonish and related spaces. It is truly meaningful, when one looks at typical Mormon chapels. A different name would just be confusing and definitely less on point and somehow ironic. And regarding the fine British expression “Bollocks!.” Y’all were far too gentle with your definition for those of us on this side of the Pond. From what this observer understands, the term, in fact, means what we normally abbreviate as b.s. Also please tell Cultch that this observer is enjoying seeing his bright and most beamish face.

[@DancingQueenie]

When I was a kid, we called it the gym. Even when there were weddings there which is a sad place to have a wedding but it happened - then a baby shower 6 months later. 😊

[@sheliabryant3997]

@Geoplanetjane. Thanks. I have only known it as BOLLOCKS, thro ' literature and film, but was reluctant to mention because if Nemo told her otherwise, I wasn't going to contradict

[@williamwallaceg2627]

Bottom line, RMN is what invited me to leave the church. He was not someone I wanted to follow and could not accept. He repulsed me. I could no longer disregard my inner voice

[@andreadiamond7115]

Commenting to help.

[@elliek5350]

Enjoying this discussion. So, when the leaders announced that the Lord would not let them lead the church astray, will remove them instead - Why is it always interpreted as by death? Hasn't God revealed to the prophet any procedures to impeach one, or retire - at least out of mercy ?) I really doubt Nelson is still "unleashed" these days, but of course everything is hidden from the public. Will be curious to see if he even makes it to the general conference this weekend.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@elliek5350. Propped up in his war chariot like King AHAB. [II Kings 20:20, 21,22-29-31-33,34]

[@carolyearsley]

IMO, that could have been what was done to Russell M. Ballard, and also Harold B. Lee. Mafias have been known to take out anyone who goes against the rules.

[@Moksha-Raver]

Once the citizens of Cody see the grandeur of the Temple Spire, they will become Saints and give 10% of all their income to God at his HQ in Salt Lake City.

[@harrypettersen6714]

😂

[@sheliabryant3997]

Prophet worship: Decorum degenerated to divine dithyramble. [rmn DRIVES it like a Maserati. Equates to Numbers 16, "Strange Fire"; NON-jst]

[@CMBauer]

The little kids already doing the creepy voice. 😮😬😳

[@jewelgazer]

I noticed that as well - so sad

[@Geoplanetjane]

Similarly to the Mormon Church in its behavior toward its Prophets, the North Koreans definitely have an ongoing, multi-generational cult of personality for the entire Kim dynasty. Starting with the founder of Communist North Korea, Kim Il Sung, his son Kim Jong Il, and his grandson, Kim Jon Un. Each is known under a specific title, including Supreme Leasers for the founder, Dear Leader for his son and Glorious Leaser for the grandson. All citizens must compete with each other for their enthusiasm during the leader’s speeches or other exhortations, and for their tears and hysteria when one of them dies. Similarly, there was a cult of personality with alike behavior on the part of both ordinary citizens and military and higher level officials during the era of the Cummunist Soviet Union during the era of the despotic leader Joseph Stalin. It might thus be said that both Communism and the despotic leaders of these countries were and are worshipped and praised in a truly cultish way, in like manner as the Mormons worship and venerate their prophets.

[@benjamingardea4511]

I don’t think the birthday party was that odd. I do think the daily reverence they give him is worship.

[@williamwallaceg2627]

It wouldn’t be odd if it wasn’t so dramatic or something simple. He turned 100, no one else has that type of celebration. If it was a simple announcement, fine. As a theoretical representative of someone else, who cares. Nelson wanted it and if he didn’t, he would have declined the celebration.

[@benjamingardea4511]

He’s a big fish in a small pond so I’m not surprised people made a big deal of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wanted it, but I could also see Wendy et al convincing him the members wanted to celebrate him. I would presume to know what he wants as much as I can’t stand to listen to him.

[@jamestrek2570]

If only nelson knew that the bottle lid was un recyclable. Lol.

[@DancingQueenie]

Right? 😂 WM specifies - remove the lid! It’s a different kind of plastic.

[@jaylarsen67]

Rebecca's description of Follow the profit is what I call North Korea tactics because they have their kids sing songs of Kim Jung Un.

[@susiekathryn8570]

Matt Harris calls them by their name… Gordon Hinckley, Spencer Kimball, Russell Nelson…

[@kerryholyoak5720]

Why did Elder Haney have to respond to RMN’s invitation to join the First Presidency table for lunch when he was not called by his title and full name ?

[@walt4890]

I honestly don't understand why there is such a strong association between the prophet and "We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet." Besides the first stanza, there is no mention of the prophet. After that, it's just standard fire and brimstone last days Mormonism ("The wicked who fight against Zion will surely be smitten at last")

[@sheliabryant3997]

@walt4890. PROGRAMMING. SELF-HYPNOSIS. MASS HYSTERIA. Or hysterical mass?

[@kerryholyoak5720]

Members worship the prophet while the prophet and other leaders worship the profit !

[@schrecksekunde2118]

oh ffs the "you mr prophet wouldn't lead those little ones astray right?" "ooh nooo the prophet loves you(!)" is just sickening 🤮

[@Geoplanetjane]

In my experience the only other instance in which one is expected to stand is when one is a diplomat and the Ambassador, any Ambassador or former Ambassador enters the room. This is done to respect the President of the United States in whose stead the Ambassador serves and represents.

[@Geoplanetjane]

These books that the prophets have written and everyone is supposed to buy reminds me of Scientology and the writings of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, who to this day is regarded as infallible and whose every word is sacred. Every Scientologist is expected to repeatedly buy the founder’s books and writings every time a new version is published, even if nothing has changed from previous editions.

[@benjamingardea4511]

Hinckley and Monson were charming. Nelson has always come across as a prick to me.

[@LoveMeSomeTrueCrime]

The wizard 😂😂😂☠️

[@sheliabryant3997]

MONUMENTAL title-page.

[@Cultural_Hall]

Thank you!

[@sheliabryant3997]

​@@Cultural_Hall THANK. YOU!!! All. Would love to see you tackle the implications of the mormon claims/doctrines re April 6. Have been studying more since texting on dithery, and learning more about this April 6 history and implications, proves mormonism beyond blasphemy. OUTRIGHT HERESY just on the 4.6. propoundments ALONE.

[@jaylarsen67]

Well should have waited for the next slide.

[@kerryholyoak5720]

You may not speak evil of the evil of the Lord’s annointed !

[@sheliabryant3997]

"ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG."

[@kittiemarie1235]

“He doesn’t have the power.” 😂 He most certainly does have the power. And many active members seem to forget about these verses in the Bible: James 1:13-16 "And remember, when you are being tempted, do not say, “God is tempting me.” God is never tempted to do wrong, and he never tempts anyone else". How is blaming God for the evil/untoward choices/policies of prophets any different than blaming God for tempting them to do evil? Shameful. On a side note, Rebecca I half-wonder if you might have been my primary pianist because I had the same songs and lessons and we did add verses to the prophet songs!

[@andreadiamond7115]

LMAO! Love Jon Streeter. TOTAS

[@jeeperp3926]

No in principle; but, in practice they absolutely do.

[@susiekathryn8570]

Chad Daybell was excommunicated . Don’t know about Lori.

[@MaryW359]

The picture of RMN with hands extended reminded me of the Pope. Creepy

[@carolyearsley]

They are in league with the Vatican, but just don't announce it to the members. When the Rome temple was built, the GAs were invited to the Pope's private chamber.

[@MaryW359]

@@carolyearsley yes for a 33 minute visit. I think the gesture of his extending hands was a signal that he is part of the elite group and not by accident. If you had told me I would be thinking like this six months ago I would have laughed at the possibility.

[@sheliabryant3997]

​@@carolyearsley Hello!! And AMENAMENAMEN!Like two girls in a beauty pageant who hate each others' guts but are all over each other.

[@sheliabryant3997]

​@@MaryW359 Oh, YOU, TOO?! YEAAAAAHH!!! SO glad it's this evident to others.

[@carolyearsley]

@@MaryW359 33 minutes, eh? How symbolic is that! They are all part of "The Brotherhood", which is worldwide, Notice in the news how they put their hands on each other's shoulders.

[@JoshuaGreyJensen]

46:37 I find it so sad that TOTAS has gone so completely anti-trans rights. Almost every single video of his anymore are just far right dog whistles.

[@jaylarsen67]

If Jesus wouldn't have been such a rebel apostate maybe he would have lived to be 100 then we would celebrate him. But also he would not have made changes to the church at that time and would have been just another guy going along with the dominant practices 2000 yrs ago.

[@user-ql2id3ml3i]

they do

[@LatterDayPup]

No.

[@bonwhee]

I dated a man who was taught he couldn't remove his suit jacket unless the presiding leader had removed his first. Sounds like something Jesus would expect 🙄